Simmer The Monkey
In Chinese astrology, 2004 was the Year of the Monkey. This was supposed to signify unpredictable, tumultuous changes.
I have this theory that, with apologies to my 2006 canine friends, the Year of the Monkey never actually ended.
Mike Hargrove doesn’t strike me as the star-signs type, but you might ask him again after the All-Star break. The Sporting News’ Ken Rosenthal has a list of managers on the hot seat, and Hargrove falls smack in the middle of it. Rosenthal’s rationale:
Mike Hargrove, Mariners. G.M. Bill Bavasi is far more likely to be in trouble after presiding over back-to-back 90-loss seasons; Hargrove is in the second year of a three-year deal. Still, Hargrove had philosophical differences last season with Ichiro Suzuki, the Mariners’ best player. Ichiro, signed through 2007, might not agree to an extension if Hargrove stays.
Rosenthal lists Hargrove’s status is “simmering,” perhaps like a nice potato leek soup. This seems to mix the “hot seat” metaphor, since most heated recliners don’t have a simmer setting. Dave’s take on the manager’s fate, as you may recall, was more aggressive — he’s forecasting a Hargrove ouster by mid-May.
The underlying point is the same. The Mariners have to win, win now, and win impressively, or there’s going to be upheaval. Blame it on the monkey if you want, but the team can’t fire a symbolic primate.
I came specifically to view an inspiring post about how the M’s have:
1. looked half-way decent in 3 games;
2. won their first series against the AL West defending champs,
3. had starting pitching that looked pretty good (considering we are still 2 starts from Felix); and
4. Looked like a good gritty team that may find ways to win games they shouldn’t even be keeping close.
Yes, I realize the bullpen looks shaky, the season is 162 games long, Grover is unimaginative, and these games were played at home, but c’mon, we spend some much time in the doom and gloom zone, how about some “reasons for hope in Series One” posts or something. I mean Washburn struck out 7 and lasted as long as we needed him to against the one team that knows him the best. Sure he may have been up for this game more than any other, but at least we know his skills aren’t completely gone!
Hey, you got a reason for hope at the end of this post! And actually, I do have a short item like that planned for today’s game thread. So take heart.
Can’t we send the monkey back to Anaheim where it belongs?
Mariner fan, there are a bunch of “good vibes” in yesterday’s posts.
I found it interesting that after ONE season, Bob Melvin is already back in the simmering group. Hargrove seems to have rubbed some people the wrong way, which carries more weight than more on-the-field management, along with Everett being “his” guy makes him doomed unless the Mariners continue to win 2 of 3.
I know this is completely off topic but i didnt see any previous entries written about this……did anyone know that Felix changed his number to 34(after his idol Freddy Garcia) last week? I didnt know until after i bought a Felix jersey for $150 and thought i got some awesome deal but they were just trying to get rid of the “Old” number….Well anyways the way i look at it its a throw-back!
“Simmer the Monkey” sounds like a poor Peter Gabriel rip-off, or a good rip-off if you pefer monkeys simmered rather than shocked. But I hope that Dave’ prediction is correct. How many people besides Grover believe that Everett is a more competent hitter than Petagine or Lawton. I think, though, that Rosenthal is overstating the Ichiro-Grover feud. The two men might not see eye to eye, but their differences will not, in my opinion, push Grover out of the managerial position.
I know it’s way early, but this team sure does look different. There are still holes, to be sure, but there is an almost desperate look of purpose there that has been missing. I think Grover knows it’s now or never.
The only thing that surprised me was that a national writer remembered there was a team in Seattle with a manager who could get fired.
Yes, Felix has Freddies old number, and Beltre has, gasp, Boone’s! Let’s just hope he’s the Advancing-against-the-Gual’s Boone instead of the Retreating-from-Minnesota version. Otherwise Grover’s seat will get hotter.
Still, I’m happy so far. They have an offense!
If Hargrove continues his reflexive bunting and will only use his closer if there is a save available for him in the box score, I hope he does gets fired (even if the team does win 2 of every three).
It’s like Brak‘s mom said. Never trust a monkey.
People, get your freak on for tonight!!!!! No way does Hargrove get fired (before July). Right now he has the Ms posed for the biggest four game series of the season thud far and possibly the decade (at least this half of the decade). They’re battling their arch nemesis the A’s for FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok, (starting to choke on sarcasm)….seriously though just close your eyes and pretend its the last weekend of the season. If they win…wohoo!!!!!!! If the A’s win, well it really isnt the last weekend of the season.
This will show those boys in Tacoma that they can beat us, but they cant be us.
When you mentioned Brak, I thought you meant the alien from This Island Earth. Given that The Professor from Gilligan’s Island is in the film, the line kind of works.
It is really good to see Kenji at the top of teh HR list every day when I get Lee Sinins’s ATM report.
Nope, it’s all about the cartoon Brak. Although Brack the alien was played by Lance Fuller, who possesses one of the best 50′s movie guy names I’ve heard in a long time.
I tend to agree with Tek, that we really don’t know what to make of any “feud” or “philosophical differences” between Ichiro and Hargrove. All the information seems to be based on one article which may or may not have quoted Ichiro well, and may or may not have been translated well. I would be very interested in the serious take on this matter from the authors or similarly-informed commenters.
As for my take, I’m not inclined to automatically give Ichiro the benefit of the doubt. If pitchers are throwing him garbage on the first pitch such that he can only hit .200 on it, someone’s gotta have the balls to tell him to lay off. And while I don’t doubt that last year’s team needed a motivational boost, I’m not sure that Ichiro knows how to accomplish that better than Hargrove.
Obviously “just win, baby” is the universal mantra for modern major league sport. If anyone wants to set up Hargrove as the fall guy for losing, they’d better be prepared to give him his props for winning.
My take on Ichiro (you were asking right?) is very simple: He wants to win, and hates to lose (he clearly doesn’t have that “I’m just thrilled to be in the bigs” mentality, and isn’t doing this just for the money — why not stay in Japan for that?). If he’s in America, he’s here to win a championship and break some records along the way. He’s a prideful guy, and his frustration affects his level of play and focus. As Jeff mentioned, if the team is winning (and Ichrio is Ichiro stats-wise) everybody will be fine with each other and fueds turn into praise-fests. He clearly gets annoyed by inconsistent effort and feels that American baseball is less disciplined than Japanese baseball. That’s not going to significantly improve for him, compared to Japan, no matter which MLB team he might move to. I think Hargrove’s new approach actually suits Ichiro’s philosophy – work your butt off every play and make things happen (as ugly as it might be right now). I think he’ll be a model team player and more focused if it keeps up. If the M’s fall back into old patterns, and show a lack of effort and fight, he’ll be pissed, Hargrove will be gone, and I will begin to weep bitterly. If we end up under .500 look for real trade rumblings to begin from his camp, Hargrove or no Hargrove. I don’t think Ichiro is fine with being the top dog on a loser.
Oooh! Brak shoutout!
Except I’m wondering if Hargrove is more like Brak’s dad.
No, actually, he’s like Stan Freezoid on Harvey Birdman.
They’re battling their arch nemesis the A’s for FIRST PLACE!
Meche v. Loaiza.
I’m not terribly optimistic.
I know this is completely off topic but i didnt see any previous entries written about this……did anyone know that Felix changed his number to 34 (after his idol Freddy Garcia) last week?
Indeed, they snuck that one under the radar just before Opening Day. The actual number change is not too surprising, given Felix is a huge Freddy fanboy, but the timing was rather surprising.
He’ll probably be a much better #34 than Freddy as well, but we knew that
I’d say that article is more recycling of old headlines than anything particularly insightful. Hargrove is NOT the worlds greatest manager. Nor is he the worst (early voting suggest Anahiem’s manager for that title after he walked 2 to get Richie up to the plate) but he is mediocre which realistically fits with Bavasi. Both are fairly risk averse and ‘go with you gut’ types.
Hargrove only gets the boot if the M’s come up flat again in May or June. However, this assumes there’s someone available to take over.
Evan, this is true, I’d call Meche-Loaiza a bad matchup for the M’s as well, but after that it’s FELIX~! vs Joe Blanton… Moyer-Zito part umpteen (seriously, they end up facing each other all the time)… and Joel vs Rich Harden. I’d say we’ve got a good shot at no less than a split.
Joe… Dan Rohn’s current with the big club as their Director of Watching Video And Waiting For Grover To Get Fired (in case of Hargrove’s firing, break open glass). If Grover got the boot, there he is to take his place.
#15– FWIW, both men have said the off-season talks they had settled a lot of things, smoothed things out…
#18– it was mentioned in spring, and in fact came up first last summer: “Garcia has given Hernandez, the boy wonder, his blessing to claim Garcia’s old jersey, No. 34. Pitching coach Bryan Price has it this season, but Garcia has encouraged Hernandez to negotiate. “Fifty-nine?” Garcia said, dismayed at Hernandez’s current numeral. “Maybe next year.”"
I like the Felix-Balnton matchup, sure, but the rest of them don’t fill me with confidence. Meche-Loaiza and Pineiro-Harden are games where the cards are stacked against us. Moyer-Zito’s a toss-up (I wouldn’t have thought so before Zito got spanked by the Yankees).
You know, I was looking at Toronto’s lineup. They’re all platoony this year, and they look pretty good against lefties. I think they’re a below-average offense against righties, but against lefties they’re a real powerhouse.
I suggest they break open the glass right after Hargrove sends the signal for having Raul and Cretaceous Carl try a double-steal cause he wants to be ‘more agressive on the bases.’ Which I predict will happen around early May.
So which Gil Meche is going to show up tonight: the Gil with nasty stuff or the Gil with a “wet fin?”
A friend of mine who works in the merch side for the Mariners told me they have $7M worth of Felix merchandise with the old number. The one saving grace is that the early adopters may actually prefer that number…
Then why won’t he play center field? He’s got the speed, he’s got the arm, and he’s clearly a smart enough guy that he could get the hang of the differences. And its so much easier to find a corner outfielder with a power bat.
Who says he wouldn’t? I don’t believe he has ever been asked except for an All star game.
If Grover gets fired, Bavasi has to go with him. It’s B’s team and manager. Hargrove is a dead traditional manager. As someone posted a day or so ago, if he did use his closer for other than a save, if he didn’t sac bunt, he’d get fired. That’s how everyone but LaRussa thinks. This team will compete offensively fine but a pitching collapse will sink it. Blame that on Grover? Don’t see how. I think he lasts the year and probably properly so.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/265721_basebok06.html
Mariners’ payroll: $87,959,833 (13th out of 30)
I bet we’re not 13th out of 30 in revenue, though.
Oh yeah: Attendance Watch:
Game 3, 2006: 21,394
Game 3, 2005: 25,580
Gil: his two seamer will have more movement now that he’s out of the high altitude and dry air of AZ (I think it’s hard to learn a new pitch with movement if you’re pitching in an environment that hinders pitch movement).
Whether or not he throws strikes and gets guys out is a question I’m not sure I can give a good guess on. I’m guessing we see Jake Woods for the first time this season sometime in the 6th, unless Gil totally implodes, in which case, welcome to 2006, Jeff Harris.
I would be pissed if the team shop sold me a jersey with the wrong number on it without disclosing it first.
I was in an M’s store last week looking for Felix gear. All the jerseys had been pulled – I was surprised not to see any 59s on the wall. They explained very quickly that he was switching numbers to 34 and they didnt have new jerseys yet. And all remaining Felix merchandise that had a 59 on it (memorabilia, t-shirts) was marked down by 30%. Anyway they were very upfront about it.
GWO – #27 – I don’t know much about the history of his willingness /unwillingness to play center field. Even if he’s refused, it’s hardly Alfonso Soriano refusing to switch positions (as Soriano hits a ton, and should thank God they even let him take the field at all). Ichiro is the best defensive RF in the game. I am not sure Reed is that big a liability in center (in fact he’s pretty good). I understand the truth that you can find an average fielding corner fielder with decent power, but I haven’t seen a big controversy over Ichiro refusing to move. Have you?
the general feeling is that he has never refused, has said he’d be ok with it, but no one has ever broached him about a move.
Carvahal traded for a RHP who can go to the minors
It appears the M’s found someone who handles being in the minors better than Carvajal (going back to Bill B.’s comment on Sunday at the feed).
#37– I think the question this time wasn’t that Carvahal would complain, but that he might not even make it through waivers to get the chance…
#31– the attendance numbers look like the first week of ’99, when they were coming off the losing 1997-98 seasons….
4-5-1999 51656
4-6-1999 20435
4-7-1999 21050
4-9-1999 24823
4-10-1999 35991
4-11-1999 24036
4-4-2000 45552
4-5-2000 29242
4-6-2000 25121
4-7-2000 40827
4-8-2000 45261
4-9-2000 45488
4-2-2001 45911
4-3-2001 27212
4-4-2001 31382
4-16-2001 45657
4-17-2001 34536
4-18-2001 48823
4-19-2001 25016
4-20-2001 38518
4-21-2001 39274
4-22-2001 44192
4-1-2002 46036
4-2-2002 40805
4-3-2002 31082
4-5-2002 40303
4-6-2002 45093
4-7-2002 39870
4-8-2003 45931
4-9-2003 35492
4-10-2003 32746
4-11-2003 37784
4-12-2003 36591
4-13-2003 35496
4-14-2003 26567
4-15-2003 26666
4-16-2003 29674
4-17-2003 33412
4-6-2004 46142
4-7-2004 37947
4-8-2004 34376
4-16-2004 35647
4-17-2004 38925
4-18-2004 35182
4-19-2004 26020
4-20-2004 28128
4-21-2004 29137
4-5-2005 46249
4-6-2005 28373
4-7-2005 25580
4-8-2005 29652
4-9-2005 31501
4-10-2005 30434
4-3-2006 45,515
4-4-2006 20,051
4-5-2006 21394
No, the problem was NOT just that Snelling would have been in a foul mood on the 60 day DL (though that admittedly played a role in the decision according to Bill). Bill’s comment intimated that Carvajal’s attitude was found wanting, and they’d just as soon flip him to another organization.
His velocity was way down in the spring, too.
#34–I got mine on Monday at the Alderwood Mall Mariners Store…They didnt say anything to me about it but i really dont mind at all, actually i prefer the number 59 jersey so its all good
Sports-Wired says de la Cruz was born in 1982, which makes him 24:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/D/jose-de-la-cruz-2.shtml
Looks like he’s another Converted Position Player…
#38 -
the attendance numbers look like the first week of ‘99, when they were coming off the losing 1997-98 seasons…
Yeah, that losing ’97 season where they had the best offense in baseball, won the division, and had the MVP really sucked.
“His velocity was way down in the spring, too.”
That’s interesting. Do you know if it was down compared with previous springs, or just down compared to how he was throwing in the majors last year?
I remember back when the Twins and Giants did the Nathan+Liriano+Bonser for Pierzynski deal, the Twins were pretty worried about Nathan because his fastball was about 88mph in spring training, to the point where they were actively looking to make a deal for a different closer. But with him, I guess it happens every year, and it just takes a while for him to get his velocity up every year. I assume the M’s checked around to see if this was unusual for Carvajal, but maybe I shouldn’t.
Maybe I just got charmed on Sunday, but I don’t want Bavasi gone anymore. While I haven’t liked every move he’s made, it seems like the ones that weren’t great moves, he KNOWS weren’t great moves, and he just took the lesser of multiple evils considering the situation he was in.
Hargrove, I have no real emotion either way about. I’m not convinced that (aside from a few exceptions) that a manager has a huge effect on a team’s success or lack thereof, and while Piniella was fun to watch throw bases, I’m not certain that has a noticeable effect on a team’s ability to win.
I still have no problem with the JoeJessica trade. They traded a backup catcher for a couple of arms. Those arms did not work out. Sure, the M’s could have DFA’d a Cortez or Fruto, but I will give the benefit of the doubt to the M’s, who seemed to have some reason for souring so quickly on Carvajal.
Yeah, that losing ‘97 season where they had the best offense in baseball, won the division, and had the MVP really sucked.
picky picky picky
obviously, the painful memories of the Baltimore series has colored my ability to write an accurate summation…
Stupid move. Carvajal is better than Jeff Harris. He was last year, he probably is now and he will be in the future. No good reason for this to be done.
Did anyone hear Henderson’s gem last night? He basically said that he’d rather have the pitcher give up a home run than a single because “a single gets a rally going”. This was in the 9th, so he was probably just talking about closing the game, but still. I haven’t heard that kind of rigorous reasoning since last time I heard Joe Morgan or Harold Reynolds babbling.
#32: Gil: his two seamer will have more movement now that he’s out of the high altitude and dry air of AZ
Not sure what dry air has to do with it. Lower air density will decrease movement, so higher altitude and warmer temps will decrease movement. But since dry air is more dense than wet air, wouldn’t a breaking ball move less in wet air?
Odds and ends … here’s some minor leaguers the Mariners have flushed out of their system, according to Baseball America:
Released Cs Jose Yepez, Anthony Sanguinetti, Jason Radwan and Andy Dominique, OFs Carlos Arroyo, Sam Bradford, William Hogan, Michael Nesbit and Jaime Bubela, 2B Fernando Vina, RHPs Brian Stitt, James Mault, Nibaldo Acosta, Dave Burba, Don Clement, Michael Bumstead, Eric Carter and Stephen Grasley and LHPs Chris Key, Donny Langdon and Jared Thomas. Placed RHP Greg Wear on voluntarily retired list. Returned Rule 5 selection LHP Luis Gonzalez to Dodgers. Traded LHP Luke Lockwood to Phillies.
I predict the #59 “rookie” wear will eventually be more valuable than the #34 stuff. I may go down to the team store and see what I can pick up. Aside from being able to show you were in before the bandwagon jumpers, there’s a very limited quantity of it. If Felix has the kind of career we think and hope he will have, there’s going to be tons of #34 stuff around but the real #59 stuff will be rare.
50 – the ball is harder in dry air. It should be easier for GIl to impart rotation when it’s a bit damp.
No good reason for this to be done.
You mean other than the reasons mentioned in the thread- his velocity was down, his attitude at being sent to the minors was poor, and they didn’t want to do a hose job on a player (Snelling) who HASN’T been an attitude problem, but might have one if he got told one more time “Sorry, no baseball for you until June, please stay in Peoria until then”?
As for Bubela…well, he still got 19 ABs in the majors. He gets those forever.
Not sure what dry air has to do with it. Lower air density will decrease movement, so higher altitude and warmer temps will decrease movement. But since dry air is more dense than wet air, wouldn’t a breaking ball move less in wet air?
Oops, rest of my post got munched. I don’t think altitude is significant in Arizona. Peoria is a little over 1100 feet above sea level. Minneapolis is at 800, Kansas City about 750, Chicago and Cleveland about the same. The difference is insignificant.
Dry air might make a bigger difference, not because of the density but because dry air means dry hands and a dry ball, which might make it harder to get spin on the ball.
I’m sad about some of that flushing. No more Bubela?
Bumstead? Key? Wow…Key is gone. Even Jared Thomas. I get all sentimental about this kind of minor league dumping. 
54. Those aren’t good reasons. It was not a Snelling or Carvajal decision. You could have DFAed Cortez. You could have kept Harris down in Tacoma where he belongs. It was a dumb move and unfortunately just another instance of the Ms acting based on attitude rather than ability.
God forbid a young 21 year old doesnt want to go to the minors when he was a marginally effective major league reliever last year and he sees people with less skill getting the job he’s worked his whole life for.
It’s just stupid.
#55: As I understand it, the water vapour in wet air generates more friction, so wet air = more friction = more turbulence = more break (thanks, Mr. Bernoulli!).
Of course, it’s been almost 10 years since my last physics class (which was only a 100-level college course, to boot) so I’m sure there’s someone else here who can give a more authoritive explanation.