Game 29, Mariners at White Sox
RHP Gil Meche vs RHP Freddy Garcia. Freddy faces the team he would hardly recognize! Gil Meche faces the fourth-highest-scoring team in the AL! White Sox hitters beg (beg!) Ozzie Guillen to give them a start today!
Lemme throw this out there, then: why not start Livingston? The Sox are a crazy 13-2 vs RHP so far this year and 5-6 against lefties. Meche is a hittable righty. Even if Livingston’s a hittable lefty, he’s a much better option against this team if you want to win the game.
And it’s not as if you’d be messing up a critical part of the rotation, or anything. Plus, there’s a lot of debate over whether Livingston’s minor league success can translate at the major leagues. There’s not a similar debate about whether Meche is going to be contributing to the next good Mariner team. Why not look for opportunities like this to get him some work and see how he holds up?
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Lawton back in center for this one…per yahoo. Why do they get the lineups out so soon?
Livingston may well end up throwing more innings than Meche.
DMZ … you already know the answer to your question: Because it would make too much sense.
Meche is one player whose peripheral stats indicate he’s been far worse than his W-L record and ERA.
And you’re right: Livingston rotting in the bullpen does neither the team or the player a bit of good.
Man, I would loved to have seen Livingston get the start tonight. Why didn’t you IM Hargrove with that idea?
Meche is going to pitch a gem today, and the M’s are going to hit the snot out of the ball. I don’t care what the odds say.
Oh boy. Balls-in-play Meche, Lawton in center… how many doubles tonight, two? Three? More?
Who else do you put in center? WFB? Reed? He hasn’t looked his best in CF lately either.. I’ll take Lawton and his bat in the line-up for now (until Reed gets straightened out).
How does reed get straightened out if he isn’t playing?
I asked this in the earlier thread about Borchard, but what would be wrong with sending Reed to Tacoma for a few weeks to work on his swing?
#8 That’s easy. He’s got to watch some game film/front row observations of Willie and see how the pros do it.
aqua velva: worst commercials ever
Oh yeah. That aqua velva commercial reminds me of those old “School House Rock” tunes.
Let’s go M’s!!
I would rather watch the Aqua Velva commercial for four straight hours over listening to Rick Rizzs.
>Lemme throw this out there, then: why not start Livingston? The Sox >are a crazy 13-2 vs RHP so far this year and 5-6 against lefties. >Meche is a hittable righty. Even if Livingston’s a hittable lefty, >he’s a much better option against this team if you want to win the >game.
Stop making sense! The immutable laws of baseball demand that Grover stay with the pitching rotation even if there is no evidence it is effective.
Man, Sexson looks lost.
Meche is awesome!!!
Maybe what Beltre has is contagious?? First Reed, now Sexson.
I think Meche should drill Pods with the first pitch. Than we can listen to Kruk talk about how pitchers should have to bat in the AL on Baseball This Afternoon again.
Its gonna be a looong night.
Well Meche did something good this game!
I would rather drink Aqua Velva than listen to Rick Rizzs.
there goes the no hitter
The Meche-inator!
What a triumph of production values: we miss the pickoff to show us some random graphic. Then in replaying the pickoff repeatedly, we miss the single. Nice.
Wow, there was some great TV coverage.
Maybe this is Meche’s plan, let them get on base harmessly then pick them off!
So would Willie Bloomquist’s wife be “The Ignitrix”?
The crowd mike is up loud enough that it sounds like there’s fans in the booth. I love it.
“Bride of The Ignitor”, methinks.
That sure looked like a 3-FIVE-1 double play…wasn’t that Beltre?
The Ignited.
Willie seems to me like the type of guy who would have to have more than one wife.
Gameday?
Wow. Beltre can’t catch a break. That ball was hammered.
33. Yeah apparently Everett walked AND struck out before grounding out.
Nice play by Lopez there…I thought he wasn’t gonna get him.
Willie seems to me like the type of guy who would have to have more than one wife.
He’s from Port Orchard, Utah?
Meche isn’t looking too bad!
Freddy looks to me like he just kinda lazily throws the ball up there now … and with his fastball sitting at 85-88, it’s entirely possible that that’s exactly what he’s doing.
WHAP!
Just as good as a sac bunt for Sexson!
I guess that goes down as a sacrifice then?
Freddy really looks like he wishes he had a Doritos bag instead or a rosin bag next to the mound.
Is there any reason why pitchers don’t just hang three curveballs over the middle of the plate against Beltre?
Ack. Beltre, you miserable hack.
Ugh tonight on FSN Live: Why Willie Ballgame is an important member of the Mariners.
See it’s the Seattle Media that has built this Willie Worship thing..ugh.
Is there any reason why pitchers don’t just hang three curveballs over the middle of the plate against Beltre?
Because the scouting report still says to throw them low and away. Beltre has started to lay off them though, so then they end up having to throw them down the middle.
Meche certainly has that sinker working so far tonight. Lots of balls on the ground.
Willie Worship, while statistically baseless, may be one of the few things putting the butts of the ignorant unwashed masses into the Safeco seats this season, dont’cha think? They gotta have SOME story to sell, and the world’s worst closer and DH ain’t the kind of story they’re looking for.
looks like #49 is entering a new vocabulary word for English class today….
Hyperbole
How about Lopez, Betancourt, Johjima and how they’re doing? I like those stories better…
I know Meche and Pineiro aren’t amazing or anything but is there a way to gauge their improvement over last year at this point or is the sample size still too small?
They certainly both look better (albeit marginally) than last year, even though I swear Jamie Moyer is wearing a Pineiro skin the way Joel has been pitching of late.
As for the earlier comments on Reed…is there anything out there about whether or not his wrist injury is hurting his bat? He still has it pretty heavily wrapped, maybe he just needs to shut it down and let it heal completely.
Niehaus: A tight pitcher’s duel here tonight, as figured.
As figured by who?
I’m surprised at the lack of Lopez love and people even seem a little tepid on ManCrush-san.
No doubt #53 I totally thought Freddie was going to implode by now.
How about Lopez, Betancourt, Johjima and how they’re doing? I like those stories better…
A bunch of foreigners, or a scrappy local white kid. Which would the M’s rather sell?
Meche’s pitches up or in will hurt him sooner or later.
The big story of the season to me is Putz. Dude has been lights-out ever since he got full control over that split-finger.
I am told that the wheels keep falling off the A-Train.
I love this fan in the background. “watch the curveball”
Apologies, bigred – I used to work for a marketing company and it still hasn’t all washed off…
The big story is Sherrill’s girth.
I heard the A-train takes a while to get moving but once it does… Watch Out! cuz it hauls
#50
In what way?
No prob feingarden I was actually referring back to a previous games discussion on “irony” as well.
This might be the performance of the year for Meche so we better capitalize on it. Score some runs!
Well Dick,
Guardado is definitely not the world’s worst closer, and Everett is definitely not the world’s worst DH. I believe feingarden was exaggerating their less than steller starts for emphasis.
bwahahaha
Ex-Mariner sighting – Franklin just gave up the lead to the Braves in the 8th inning. Who in the hell in thier right mind would bring him in with the game tied late.
Not that I’m complaining. I see him take the mound, and I know the Braves will score some runs.
Man, Meche is giving up some long fly balls tonight
Looks like Meche did just what the skipper ordered – quality start for 6 innings. Props to Gil.
Man, Meche is giving up some long fly balls tonight
He is? I have only seen one.
I’m just watching gamecast, but it seems like Meche’s location is pretty good and he is inducing a fair share of ground ball outs. He won’t miss many bats, but I think if he can continue this GB/FB ratio he will usually keep us in games
A-Trainwreck.
#72: I agree, but that would fly in the face of his well-established record.
Yikes!
74. lol to bad Remlinger just gave up a two run gopher ball to Aaron Rowand.
So which fan picked the seventh as “Regression to the Mean” inning?
Yank him. Now.
he better be walking him to put in soriano
Not Me! Gil and Co. will escape unscathed.
Over/under on number of hits/BB Meche allows before the Garden Grove actually does yank him? 3
oooooooh! I was way wrong, and it feels so right.
Hargrove is none too smart. You have seven relievers, and your starters have pitched all but one inning over previous two games. Why not use a reliever? This is dumb managing in my opinion. Sherrill should have pitched to Thome to start the inning.
83- I think most managers would leave their starter in in that situation.
Meche is pissed about now…
well..crap..
Yeah…..
Bah
bigred, I defer to your expertise in English… which is more appropriate in this situation, hyperbole or irony?
Predicting the FSNW analysis: Meche pitched well, except when he sucked.
#84 — Most managers would. That does not make it a sound decision. Why wait and let Meche fail? Grover did the same thing in Boston, letting him pitch to Ortiz. It does no favors to Meche or the team.
shoot
See Meche’s face? He looks downright homicidal.
Screw It. We’re still gonna put some runs up and win this one. BRB… I’m going to get my rally cap.
f’in Joe Crede…although Soriano is the guy you want out there in that situation, his ability to miss bats was big, but he forgot to miss Crede’s bat on the first pitch
I wouldn’t have pulled Meche after the 6th.
But I might have put in Sherril to pitch to AJ.
I think early in the year you gotta leave Meche in he was at 80+ pitches and could have used the confidence boost of going through 7. Yeah it backfired, but you gotta leave him in.
The thing is, Meche looked gassed. He was clearly laboring, and missing locations, with each of his three batters.
You have to leave him in but walking AJ was brutal.
Feingarden,
Neither hyperbole or irony would be appropriate. I personally employed a long line of expletives.
uhh, Reed needs to start please.
I Heart Johjimas
bigred,
Thanks for validating my instinctive reaction.
Meche to Soriano on the bench, “H3ll, *I* could’ve done THAT.”
The thornton trade is about to come through for us big time!!!!!
Petagine vs. Thornton – this could be intersting.
Thronton vs. Petagine. My heart soars with hope.
Yeah yeah but I don’t get it. Freddy is tiring and losing it, why force a bull pen change now?
100.
Should be “neither hyperbole NOR irony…”
OMG. This is horrible.
Thornton owes us big time. Throw your straight fastball Matt.
This is SO dumb. There’s no evidence that Petagine has a pronounced platoon split.
Clash of the Titans!!!
More like Clash of the Slight-ans.
Gamecast tells me:
W Bloomquist hit for R Petagine
Looks like ozzie won that one.
Great AB WFB
Did anyone other than my 12 year old son notice that we put Soriano in with the bases loaded to pitch to a guy who’s hitting .339/.397/.661 against righties and .389/.450/.611 at home? I could use an explanation of this, if anyone is willing to oblige me. Thanks in advance.
I guess I’m glad that move worked.
OMG OMG OMG Grover is a genius. Oh, Thornton…
Good Point Sammy.
Bloomquist gets it done again!
You DO realize this means Matt Thorton sucks worse then Willie F. Bloomquist…?
Bloomquist singles. I guess we’ll never know. Maybe we gave up a homer for that. Verdict: yes, Ozzie won that.
The sox announcers are telling Matt to settle down, not overthrow…. har, har, har.
#116
Over the last three years Crede put up a .778 OPS against lefties, and a .722 OPS against righties.
Now that the bench has been used, do we pinch hit, umm say Every so often Eddie? Bless the need for 6 middle relievers. One move Grover.
YES!!!!!
Jose Lopez may be our best hitter this season thus far
Oh my gosh – a comeback!
uh oh, walking ibaneze to get to sexson. HR time!!!
Hmmm, they’re walking Ibanez to get to Sexson. I wonder how that’s going to work out.
Que intential walk and Sexson homerun…he hasn’t failed this year
I just heard someone heckling C-Rex about dinosaurs…hehe.
130 – I recall one time Richie made them pay; has it been more?
Why pitch to Sexson? Everett and Beltre couldn’t hit a little league ace right now.
Ibanez…HELLS YEA!!!
Air mail! Good slide by Raul.
I am so happy. Then I thought about what comes next in the 9th inning.
So… uh… is there anyone left on the bench to play first since Hargrove wasted Petagine?
Nice Grover, Peteginie is gone…
Ibanez slides like he plays the field … like a Manchester United fullback.
lose the dh? have ibanez play 1st, carl left? Is this even legal?
So can Rivera play first?
Come on Adrian!!!!!!
Screw it, we don’t need anyone to play defense Putz is going to put em down 1-2-3 and then Eddie’s gonna follow suit.
Because we only have three back-up position players (not counting Rivera), we are now in deep doo doo defensively.
Who wants to take bets on whether Eddie blows the save?
they would probably put rivera at 1st before losing the DH. please.
Fairly: “Gil pitched such a wonderful game tonight.”
6IP: 3H 4BB 1K 3ER
Just Wonderful. Cue the Lawrence Welk music.
145: we all agree but don’t jinx us already
143. I believe in you bigred. You predicted a good May on the last day of April and we scored 13 runs in the next game.
Beltre’s eye/patience has improved significantly since the beginning of the year.
140. Yes
147 he was doing just fine for 6 innings. then he put runners on second and third.
then he was forced to ibb another runner
then his reliever let all the runners score.
he’s not blowing anyone away, but the 3ER is out of proportion for his performance.
Gotta give credit to Hargrove for letting Soriano stay in and settle down.
Putz getting a shot at the save maybe?
Why did he even bring the bat?
Nope. Putz will face Konerko after Sherrill faces Thome.
#152: If Meche in 6IP is striking out one guy and walking four (fine, the last was an IBB, but the leadoff walk was not), he’s not going to get through a lineup like the ChiSox’ very often.
If he leaves the bases loaded and nobody out, he doesn’t have much room to gripe about what his relivers do.
156: good call, but will Putz stay in the ninth or are we forced to endure another steady eddie 9th
158: Repeat the Hargrove mantra: “Eddie is our closer. He saved ## games last year.”
Are the white sox fans chanting for Eddie to come in the game?
The Sheriff comes through again! Too bad we got rid of Matt Thornton
Per the previous conversation about Willie’s wife(27): Have you ever seen her? She could ignite a wet log.
157 would you be happier if he went 6IP with 6H? because he only put 6 runners on not counting the IBB, and 2 of those were mistakes leading off the 7th.
inherited runners and inherited runners scored are tracked for a reason. had he been pulled instead of asked to set up a DP for soriano then his line is 6IP, 3H, 2ER, 3BB, which is just fine. what happened instead is he gave up a BB and watched all 3 runs score thanks to soriano giving up a HR.
come on. i realize nobody likes meche. but stick with his actual faults. he did fine tonight.
I like Meche.
J.J.! Please pitch the ninth.
#163: I like 5+K’s/9IP and 2K/BB.
Meche pitched inning for inning with Freddy Garcia tonight. I think because he has never lived up to his potential we always jump on him. Great game tonight and way to keep us out of the middle relief.
#163, 165: (I also like beer.)
LB:
You’re a fan of the wrong team then.
I hope JJ pitches the ninth. Ask yourself this — who pitching the ninth gives us our best chance of winning? Not only is Putz a better option, but if we put in Eddie we are only left with 2 scrubs in the pen. My bet is that Hargrove puts Eddie in there. Thinking outside the box — with Hargrove, NEVER.
#169: I root for laundry.
Bloomquist continuing to make his case for MVP….
Well that seals it … Willie’s starting for the rest of the season.
Every time I rag on WFB he gets a hit. I go to the game. I scream, “You suck Bloomquist!” He gets a hit. I sit in a bar. I complain that he’s not an every day player. He gets a hit. I sit on my couch at home and explain to my wife the myriad ways in which Willie Bloomquist is hurting the team. He hits a double.
Clearly, I need to rag on him more often.
Put him on! Pitch to Lopez!
And here comes Eddie.
“And here comes Eddie…”
When he hit that double everyone in Mariner nation let out a collective: “that little sh**!”
Neihaus on the radio: “Bottom of the ninth, here comes Eddie: buckle up” Uh, yeah, and get the airsickness bags ready too. We might have a safe landing, but I’m pretty sure I’m going to be feeling sick along the way…
178 Not Me.
I couldn’t hate these homers any more. Luckily I have been out and only have to hear 3 outs (please).
are you f’in kidding me????
yep…
…
Sasakinated!
So how many more of these does it take to start using somebody else?
What the hell!
#181: Visit http://heavethehawk.com.
Every Frickin’ Time Eddie
haha… Hargrove did look pissed. Maybe that’s it for Eddie.
Dave N on the radio “That’s way back… and he has given it up again.” Even he’s getting tired of Eddie…
ugh
Good ol’ Eddie. Why couldn’t JJ pitch the 9th again? Someone remind me.
Niehaus: “Guardado is victimized by the long ball once again.” Excuse me? How is he a victim? A hack, maybe, but not a victim.
BS: Eddie’s favorite stat
So…wow…that was his first HR ever?
Nice.
Goddamn
Everyday eddie is right. Like every day he is out there he shits the bed.
Props to Lonin for #145.
No more Eddie!!!
GO EDDIE GO!!!
What makes this even more awesome is rivera is the only player on the bench. Extra innings with _nobody_ available except your backup catcher.
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddddddddiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeee….eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddddddddiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeee I swear that I heard that in the sox stands…..
#198: It took a lot of hard thought and reflection for me to come up with such a conclusion…
So, aside from being a bit stunned, where does the front office go from here? Do we strap in and follow the same path with Eddie that Bavasi went w/r/t Olerud, Aurelia and Boone?
Meaning, is our only recourse to DFA this guy and get nothing?
He always seems to look great until there is 2 outs then serves it up for the BS. Come on bats.
See my comment above (170) — Now we have Livingston and Green for the rest of the game. The rest of the god damn game. Mike Hargrove — go to hell.
Hargrove is a complete slave to convention. Who is he going to pitch now?
He burned Soriano, Sherill and Putz in the 8th. Why not leave Putz in to pitch the 9th, so that if the Sox push a run across in the bottom of the 9th, he still has Eddie in reserve. Instead, not only does he go away from the pitcher who is pitching much better, but he burns his options to bring his better pitchers into a close game. He almost got away with it, but it was a stupid move not to let Putz pitch the 9th, whether it worked or not.
188. GREAT website. Now how about a freggin win
204 move putz to closing and move eddie to middle relief. when he chew an inning in the middle of the game and not bone it then consider moving him back.
start with him working in blowouts if need be.
Why do seemingly good players come to Seattle and just start sucking it up? It seems to happen with every big name player we get.
Speaking of bottom of the inning homers–one of my fave players, carlos delgato, just hit a walk off to win in the 12th. I think I’ll become a mets fan. This is their year!
So how do they politely replace the closer? I saw out him on the DL with a torn rotator (the one he’s had of years). Maybe bring him back after awhile to pitch earlier in the game. Meanwhile, find out how Putz and/or Soriano handles the ninth. Reevaluate later. That sure gives the team a chance to find a better closer, but still lets them reinstate Eddie if (OK, it may be a huge “if”) he winds up the lesser evil.
Hey, Frodo is pitching!
Tough situation for a rookie. How old is he? He looks 18.
got a nice curve, and he’s just barely missing the zone.
White Sox win it in the 10th.
I’d be careful about becoming a Mets fan. Pedro will go on the DL for part of the season, the bats will cool, more angst in Queens…
I’m no Hargrove lover, but it’s hard to blame him for doing what most all managers do – they use their whole bench late in the game and put their closer in for the ninth.
Johjima!
That was close. The throw pulled Willie off the bag.
F that Lonin. M’s are gonna win.
He’s got a lot of movement on that fastball
G-man, just because “most managers” do it doesn’t mean it’s not a terrible, suboptimal strategy. Is there a manager out there smart enough to use optimal stratgies and eloquent to defend it to the media when they occasionally fail?
*gasp*
AWFULLY CLOSE
Lord, he hit it, and I said “game over”
chiming in late… I’m still waiting for my ambulance…
226, you and me both.
Out of fifteen games today, four are/were extra innings. Is that usual?
Okay, he is putting in Woods here. That means we have one pitcher and a catcher left on the bench. Let’s hope it doesn’t go 9 more innings.
Ok, Mike, just caise I defended you, it doesn’t mean you have to burn your last pitcher.
The only thing I can blame Hargrove for in this game as far as bullpen use goes is not letting Putz pitch the 9th. He used Soriano for 1.1 innings, Sherrill to get the big lefty out, and Putz to get the big righty out. That’s exactly where we want him to use our best relievers, and had the M’s won the game, everyone would have been happy that he used his best relievers against the best hitters and left Guardado to pick up the save against the bottom of the order.
218 I agree that’s what managers do, but I strongly disagree its hard to blame him. It’s the conventional wisdom, but in this case it was plain stupidity, since if one runs scores, you are stuck throwing Sean Green into this situation.
We may still get lucky (witness Ibanez’ last catch) but if he was going to stick with Eddie, he should’ve brought him in to pitch to the last batter in the 8th, or stuck with Sherill, and not burned his better option (Putz)for extra innings.
Meanwhile, the Angels now have the same record we do.
Who is left in the bullpen?
or stuck with Sherill
I like Sherrill, and I don’t think he should be used strictly as a LOOGY, but I don’t want him facing Konerko in that situation.
Oh, Livingston
F
232. Agreed. This bullshit is a direct result of Eddie sucking and having a torn shoulder.
I retract my previous comment.
Under a lot of pressure, a nice job by Sean Green. I think he could be a good one.
Texas and Baltimore are also in the 11th.
I have NO words.
AB!
236: I agree with you. The “or stuck with Sherill” was just meant to complete the list of possibilities, not to suggest that was an advisable course of action. I would’ve stuck with Putz, or if I was still in the mode of trying to salvage Eddie’s confidence (which I wouldn’t be if I were there) then I would’ve brought Eddie in with 2 outs in the 8th.
Beltre remembers he was 3 for 5 two days ago.
Why not have Reed bunt in that situation?
I think we will start to hear Carl say he doesn’t believe in Eddie — and it has nothing to do with the bible
hmm… looks like Reed has both lowered his hands and closed his stance. I’m no baseball coach, but if I were, I’d only ask him to change one thing at a time.
So Willie can be the hero here huh? You KNOW he’s gonna come through.
It’s time for Willie to burn all the doubters among us….
YEAH BABY. Willie’s gonna get it done!
damn…
so it looks like Rivera will be catching Felix tomorrow…. and Moyer will have no choice but to accept Jojima as the catcher, I think…
I retract my previous statement.
Well, Willie can still sing the song “Two out of three ain’t bad”…
AJ, Crede, Ozuma–seem familiar?
Whew!
I think Felix could have a bigger impact on our W-L record by starting to warm up in the bullpen, ASAP!
Don’t whew too soon! Kept ozu n a to merely a double.
That’s it.
damn that one hurts…
I was off an inning.
lame … guardado must be dumped … I don’t care how much ‘life’ he brings to the team
Why play the OF 1 step off the wall Mike? Good bye Eddie and Mike.
well, seriously, what are the chances that this is the last time we have to suffer through Eddie? It’s not as though he’s inconsistent, he hasn’t hadd a decent outing yet.
So will the papers suck up to the M’s FO and print a toned down column on today’s loss. Hargrove and Eddie really deserve this loss but the other members don’t. Let’s see how long it will take for the team to recover. Remember what happened last time Eddie blew a save? The team went into a funk. Eddie and Grover are bringing the team down!
I think this has a chance of getting Eddie out of there. But I wouldn’t bet on it. This puts me in the position of wanting him to blow the next save, too.
Everyday Eddie has taken a new meaning…..
Where was read playing on that last hit? Was he playing deep?
“God.
Damn.
It.”
-Seattle
Whoops, I mean Reed
Eddie’s making Chris Reitsma look like Rollie Fingers.
Eddie’s f’in done. Get him out of there. He’s cost us four games, we might be in first place if we had someone else in there. Sickening.
I wish Eddie was man enough to just admit he sucks and give it up to Putz to close. Grover is too spineless to do it himself
I would not mind seeing Eddie,Grover, and Bill. B. gone at the break. Lets start over because this is just not working.
It isn’t losing, but the feeling that Manager P. Plant is determined to seek out exactly the strategy that will turn victory into defeat. Of course this isn’t true, but when I have this particular feeling it means I can’t enjoy supporting a team with such a manager, whose magic touch found a relief grand slam and a relief equalizer in a 2-out ninth (and subbing Willie for Roberto bummed me as well, even though it worked out – temporarily).
I don’t really enjoy pulling for the Mariners right now, not at all.
This hurts more than the blown game in Boston. How many times can Eddie cough up sure victories? Further, some one has to cover second base to keep Ozuna to a single. Come on, get your collective heads out of your posterior. God, this one really stings.
I remember a counselor in high school telling me that doing the same thing over and over again despite the evidence telling you that you shouldn’t was the definition of insanity. I think that throwing an injured arm that leaves meatballs up as you closer night after night is the new definition of insanity.
Can we just have Hargrove declared non compos mentis? Please?
Anyone listening to Hargroves press conference? He is pissed.
THREE CHEERS FOR EG!!!
I AM NOW ACTIVELY ROOTING AGAINST THAT BUM
pinball and dw — amen. From a technical strategy standpoint, I cannot remember a game that had this many strategical blunders, ever. Using our best 4 relief pitchers over a span of 4 batters late in the game (only leaving the crud in the pen)?!?!?! Taking out our lights out RP and putting in somebody you KNEW was going to blow it!??!?! Pinch hitting Petagine for WFB??!?! Jeremy Reed positioning himself on the WARNING TRACK for those two plays?!?!?! This whole franchise makes me sick. Bring in Depodesta at the end of the year, DMZ to manage, and blow up this team.
Every day Eddie to me now means everyday I hope is his last same goes for Mike H.
This is a better-than-expected bullpen this year. Soriano hasn’t been great the last week but was killer before then. Putz is pulling it together. Sherrill is a great LOOGY who needs more time. Woods has been a nice, cheap mop-up guy.
There’s really only one guy who’s just struggling to get the ball over the plate, and he’s the closer, unfortunately.
When is someone going to wake up and go to a closer-by-committee and push Guardado into the LOOGY role? It’s so… frustrating.
What’s Grover got to be pissed about? He’s the one who put Everydayisabaddayanditsjustgettingwworse Eddie out there. He should consider himself lucky to wake up tomorrow with a job in MLB.
Jeremy Reed: Given Hargrove’s comments that “Reed needs to hit better,” the changes in Jeremy’s stance at the plate, and the long 2B he hit, we can stop talking about ‘the wrist’ as an explanation. JR just hastn’t been hitting.
Last year, the M’d didn’t have a 4th OFer all year long. This year, they’ve had five outfielders; with Borchard gone and Doyle coming that’ll make six: all six are LHs (Borchard only being somebody from that side), and of the six only one is a legitimate CFer, the one who isn’t hitting. Meanwhile, the team, as is well-known, has only one back-up infielder—who’s been gettin most of his PT in the outfield. This isn’t Grover’s fault, but it’s just damn handless is what it is. We didn’t have anything in Borchard’s slot before he came, and now that he’s gone that’s true, too, so . . . there it is. I don’t mind seeing Lawton get some PT, he can still hit, but.
See, where I felt Hargrove blew it was in the 10th. Green was doing well, but he brought in Woods to face Thome. Now, given that this game is in Chicago, even if the M’s score, you need to pitch the 11th. So, by bringing Woods in for Thome, you’re assured of having a lefty (Woods or Livingston) to pitch to all those righties in the 11th.
If Thome’s such a tough lefthander that you don’t want Green pitching to him, that’s fine. Just walk him, and go for the righty matchup against Konerko. Sure, you’ve put the winning run on 2nd (which Woods did anyway), but you’ve got the righty-righty matchup that Hargrove loves. Then, when you get to the 11th, you’ve got your righty, plus the lefty matchup guy.
As annoying as the micromanaging (Soriano-Sherril-Putz-Eddie) can be, you can at least justify it as playing the “standard” 9-inning game. Until the M’s admit that Eddie’s chewing gum is no longer holding the rotator cuff in place, the 7-9 innings will look like tonight’s.
But once you get to the 10th, and you know that you have to pitch an 11th as well, you’ve got to start looking at the bigger picture.
Let’s remember that Guardado usually gets better as the season goes on.
From 2003-05:
Pre-All-Star-break: 3.41 ERA, .245 BA
Post-All-Star-break: 2.46 ERA, .197 BA
Say there, Martino, #189: Every Frickin’ Time Eddie, that about says it.
Now, I’m no fan of Grover, but really, he didn’t do that much wrong, only played ‘Conventional Manager.’ He brought in Petagine, a demi-god, but did the rightie-on-leftie swap, not that smart, but 28 managers in every year are going to do that. He pulled out all the stops to hand a one-run lead to his closer in the bottom of the 9th on the road—and succeeded in that goal. And Eddie burned him Big Time, but that’s not Grover’s fault. He, and every other manager, is going to send in his closer in that situation, so long as their is an individual designated as ‘the closer.’
And in this case, it’s not entirely up to Hargrove. The FO has a sizeable amount of dough sunk into Eddie. Eddie has started off poorly every year here, but last year he rounded into shape. I doubt that the FO has any intention of moving Eddie this season, but if they have even a glimmer of moving him at the Break, Eddies has to be: a) pitching, and b) pitching half competently. Guapo will have to blow another 2-3 saves in a big way before he gets sat down for awhile. Count on it. . . . No fun to watch, but that’s the Conventional Manager-esque approach.
Tonight finally showed Seattle fans why Cleveland and Baltimore labeled Grover as a questionable game strategist.
288: I understand that logic, but I disagree with it. An extra inning game is precious. It’s the equivalent to the end of a close basketball game when you can put the outcome in the hands of one of your best players. If Hargrove is totally committed to Eddie becaues of pressure from the FO or whatever, he should’ve brought Eddie in to pitch to the last guy in the 8th. Granted we managed to scrape through the 10th with Green and Woods, but Hargrove’s options were screwed after that. I don’t object so much to sticking with Eddie as with Hargrove burning his options beforehand, because it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that a one-run ninth inning game easily can go into extra frames (particularly with how Eddie has been going), and extra inning game, by definition, is a game you are close to winning. It’s a game you haven’t lost in a blowout. It’s not a game you should leave to your scrubs because you manage just to play 9.
Appier tonight:
6 3 0 0 3 3
Jim — last year’s stats are, I think, more telling than the three year average as to whether this is simply “slow start” Eddie. In 2005, his ERA before the break was 1.45; after, 4.26. In April and May of 2005, he was 14 for 15 in save opportunities, sporting monthly ERA’s of 2.46 and 1.00. He fell apart in September. I think he’s done, frankly. Putz should close until he shows he can’t.
Still, it’s the sinkhole in the middle of the lineup that is crushing this club. Everett should sit for a week to give Petagine a shot; Beltre should bat eighth until he shows up. Sexson should remember how to hit.
Actually, as I read the numbers, even the three year average shows Guardado fading as the season progresses. I think you reversed the numbers. Take another look.
I agree that Putz should be our closer, if his newfound mastery of the split-finger is for real. But I don’t agree that Eddie’s finished. Hurt is probably more accurate, but a simple slow start is still a strong possibility to me.
If Eddie improves his ERA by cutting it 30% it’s still gonna be 6.00.
w00t!
From the post game wrap up with Shannon Drayer, it sounded like Eddie’s pretty much gone from the closer role until he finds himself.
Let’s hope nobody gives him a compass, map or GPS tracker.
I’d have no problem with taking our 4-5-6 hitters and making them the new 7-8-9 hitters until they start earning their paychecks. This is getting really ridiculous. Imagine how bad things would be if Lopez wasn’t slugging so well. He’s got more XBHs than anyone on the team (as of yesterday anyway). And this is the guy who hits 7th or 8th whenever Grover decides to start Bloomquist.
292 – For the first two weeks of the season Beltre hit:
.109 .212 .109
For the next two weeks he hit:
.306 .382 .429
Here’s to hoping that yesterday against Santana and today are just a couple of bad days and not a backslide. He did hit the ball hard twice today… and was robbed on one of them. Robbed yesterday, too – guy isn’t catching a lot of breaks.
At any rate, my point was that Beltre isn’t CURRENTLY the problem. He is hitting better than Sexson right now, that’s for sure.
For comparison:
Stats from April 17th(an arbitrary date that I labeled, at the time, Beltre’s nadir) to today:
Sexson: .172 .284 .276
Johjima: .229 .245 .333
Reed: .107 .219 .143
Beltre: .275 .344 .379
Just to say that Beltre is playing better than people think right now… which is still not where he needs to be, just better than he was. It’s real hard to climb out of a .109 .212 .109 hole you dug for yourself to start the season.
But while Adrian is ‘climbing from the abyss,’ one hopes he leaves the rope in place for Jeremy. : )
So, is he Eddie Mesa or Bobby Guardado? Only time will tell, I guess.
He’s a Gasoline Can, that’s what he is.
I come after a tough day to watch the box score and get pissed that Eddie blew it again.. did hargrove say something that he will have a new closer from tomorrow ? Doesnt he want his job here ???? WTF ????
Asked about Guardado, manager Mike Hargrove said he didn’t believe the time was right to talk about it, not so quickly after the game. He did say the Mariners will discuss what to do.
“I don’t want to answer any questions about Eddie right now,” Hargrove said. “That will be discussed, but now isn’t the right time to talk about them
Stephen Kahn and Mark Lowe: *HAHAHAHAHA* I realize these kind of numbers happen in A ball, but that’s usually in _low_ A ball. I just hope that they have some of that gassss left when they make it to the Bigs. I’ll be interested to hear your report on Julio Santiago as well, Dave. 6’0″, but 155 lb.? Room to ‘fill out??’ Tui’s hitting, too, I hear.
The 66ers have THE _WORST_ website I’ve seen in ten years.
I don’t blame Hargove for this loss. He tried to win the game in 9 innings, the proper strategy IMO. If you manage for extra innings, what does that tell your team? You expect to blow the lead? No, this was 100% about Guardado. He needs to go to middle relief until he figures things out (if he ever does). It’s beginning to look like Eddie will be joining Boone and Olerud as players who decline right before our eyes that we wait too long to trade and thus get nothing for. If I have a complaint about Bavasi it’s that he always seems to be dealing from a position of weakness due to waiting too long to move guys.
It certainly seems like its time for Hargrove to go to the bullpen by committee. Guardado is in a funk right now where he is finding ways to blow saves, and the team isn’t good enough to deal with it right now. Putz or Soriano seem like they could play closer for a week or two, while Eddie get a little more work in. The team needs wins right now, and 2-3 more late innings losses could put it into a tailspin. Guardado just hasn’t been effective so far.
But isn’t every bullpen a committee? The best thing to do is, short of being lucky enough to have a Relief Ace for whom you throw out splits and everything else because they are so freaking unhittable (in which case you use them in the highest of high leverage situations, not exclusively the 9th), just completely forget about the ridiculous notion of the Closer. Then manage the 9th the way you have the whole rest of the damn game, playing matchups, looking at career numbers against given hitters, etc.
Guardado could actually be of some use, even now, with him struggling, if he were put in positions where he could succeed. But because of this grotesque Closer rigidity, he is being put into a postion to not only fail, but fail explosively.
I can’t believe we are still having this discussion.