The Time Has Come
Early speculation is that Jeremy Reed has broken his thumb and is going to miss at least 4-6 weeks. This leaves the Mariners with exactly one real outfielder on the roster. Ibanez is a DH masquerading as a LF, and Willie Bloomquist is a 2B who gets used in center because he plays hard. Carl Everett can’t run, and isn’t even an option.
Ichiro is the only real outfielder the M’s have in the major leagues right now. The internal options from Tacoma include Doyle (.287/.392/.434), Choo (.316/.391/.477), and unfortunately, Mike Morse (.233/.283/.421). None of these three should be asked to patrol CF in Safeco Field. Doyle and Choo would both be fine in a corner outfield spot, however, and both would provide significantly better offense than anything they could expect from Willie Ballgame.
So the team is in a situation where they need to open up a corner OF spot and they need a legitimate defensive center fielder. They’ve spent years dancinng around the issue, but Reed’s injury pushes it to the forefront – move Ichiro to center.
It’s the best move, and it’s not even close. Reed hasn’t been hitting for the last 18 months anyways, and the Mariners best 9-man line-up in a playoff push wouldn’t include him swinging the bat. The team is in playoff contention, and they’ve got to figure out how to maximize every advantage they can. Ichiro has publically stated that he’d move to center if asked, though behind the scenes, we hear all kinds of rumors about how he wants an offseason’s notice to train for the new position.
At this point, though, you can’t afford to let Ichiro’s personal preference take precedence over the good of the club. The team needs him in center field. Putting Ichiro in CF allows you to move Ibanez to right, which minimizes his defensive liabilities in Safeco, and Doyle or Choo in left. Or, you could just put Doyle/Choo in right, as both have the arm for it.
If the M’s have the guts to make the move, Reed getting hurt could be the a blessing in disguise. The Mariners best team has Ichiro manning center field, freeing up a corner OF position to add offense. They’re not getting the offense they need from Jeremy Reed, and they won’t get it from Willie Bloomquist.
Odds are the M’s won’t do it. It’d be a pretty dramatic move to not only change Ichiro’s position but essentially cause Jeremy Reed to lose his job to an injury, but he’s played his way out of the line-up on his own. The M’s have internal options who deserve those at-bats, and this injury creates a perfect chance to maximize the talent on the roster and get the best possible line-up on the field.
Ichiro to CF, Doyle or Choo to the majors. Whichever one doesn’t come up now can replace Carl Everett when the M’s finally tire of him.
Oh, man, you’re depressing me Dave: that’s a terrific idea but there’s virtually no chance it happens. Sometimes i wish Bavasi read this blog.
We have all said this for years, now, Dave. It’s too obvious. Hargrove doesn’t have the stones to write Ichiro’s name on the lineup card with CF next to it.
I’d love very much to be wrong about this.
If it happens, though, I’d like to see Choo get the first shot while Doyle’s knee gains strength.
I’m honestly surprised anyone can form coherant thoughts after today’s game. I like the plan and maybe they’ll do it, but I think it’s much more likely we see WFB and either Doyle or Choo in Center untill Reed is healthy.
The real question is who would you rather see up right now, Doyle or Choo?
For what its worth, Bavasi stated at our USSM gathering at Safeco last summer that his ideal outfield was Reed in left, Ichiro in center, and Doyle in right. We almost gave him a standing ovation when he said it.
That was a year ago. I’m guessing the Reed in left part has changed, but he’s clearly a fan of this idea. The question is whether he’s willing to exercise his authority as GM to potentially overrule both his manager and his star player on the issue. To date, the answer has been no.
Until Doyle starts raking at a .300 clip again, it’s probably safe to assume he isn’t 100% healthy yet . . . hence, my money is on Choo getting the call.
The real question is who would you rather see up right now, Doyle or Choo?
It’s a toss-up. For as much as I’m not a fan, Choo is hitting the living crap out of the baseball right now. He hit .371/.465/.588 in June, and had a few more hits today. He’s on fire.
However, he really, really can’t lefties. At all. .220/.288/.237 in 59 at-bats against them. So, if he comes up, he has to be platooned, no questions asked. And that means we see a lot of Bloomquist in the OF, essentially nuking this plan.
Snelling has no such platoon issue (.367/.424/.433 vs lefties), but they don’t want him playing everyday, so Hargrove would almost certainly platoon him too.
Really, both of them should be up. But if I had to pick one, I’d probably go with Doyle. He’s just a better player, and he’s got a better shot to come up and hit well enough to never lose the job.
Until Doyle starts raking at a .300 clip again, it’s probably safe to assume he isn’t 100% healthy yet . . . hence, my money is on Choo getting the call.
Doyle in June – .306/.389/.532.
#7. Fair enough. Sans the occassional Willie Day as randomly declared by Grover, whoever wins the promotion will be starting on a daily basis. If it’s Doyle, I just hope his knee is ready.
I wish Bavasi would excercise some kind of authority over Grover.
Choo has been looking great. Everyday. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him play CF though. He plays LF and RF, and does have a cannon for an arm. I’ve heard people question his defensive abilities, but I’ve sseen some beautiful catches and throws from Shin-Soo.
Doyle has still only been playing 2 out of every 3 days, though, since Clement came up and that DH spot has been more competitive, Doyle has been actually PLAYING those 2 out of every 3 days as opposed to simply DH-ing. And he stole another base Sat nite (and this time the trainer didn’t have to go visit him). He’s played CF and RF and made some nice thorws, but also, I haven’t seen him make a remotely tough play in terms of getting TO the ball this year.
It really depends on what the Ms see as their need and of course, what they do with Ichiro. If they need somebody to play everyday, I’m thinking they’ll still be cautious on Doyle. But if they’re not willing to put Ichiro in CF, then Choo isn’t their man. Yeah, he sucks against lefties, but he’s hit .383 in June….
Couldn’t they put Choo or Doyle in CF and then play him more towards left-center and move Ichiro a little more towards right-center? He would essentially be covering a CFer’s ground but wouldn’t have to make as much of an adjustment towards how the ball comes off the bat, etc.
Granted, I think Dave’s idea makes the most sense, but if the team decides not to do anything to upset Ichiro, this could be getting what they want without rocking the boat.
Of course, I could just be crazy.
Ichiro will move to center when it’s clear he’s the only choice, not simply the best choice. His most basic quality is the quiet-but-immoveable certainty he has in playing baseball his own way, no matter what. He clearly does not want to play center, but when asked to, for these reasons, I’m sure he will.
Oh, and his contract finishes this year, doesn’t it? It wouldn’t be the best time to excite that little seed of peevishness he very occasionally displays.
I don’t really like Bavasi, but somehow believe he will handle this mess exactly the right way to make it work. Go figure.
Ichiro’s going to be the starting centerfielder at the All Star Game–might as well make the switch now.
Would it make it any easier selling Ichiro on the move with a promise that he’ll move back to right when Jones comes up? It’s a long haul, maybe a season and a half, and I don’t know what he would think about promises involving some minor league kid, but creating a sense that it’s ultimately a temporary measure might help.
I have a feeling that what we’re actually going to get is WFB as our everyday CF and Morse as our new “super-sub” because Dave’s plan just makes to much, you know, sense.
We will get the WFB as CF and Morse as sub. It will be ugly to watch.
We will get it because that is what the casual fan wants to see and what the mainstream sports writers want to write about.
I hope we luck out and get Dave’s plan. It is a great deal better.
When it looked like Reed might start the season on the DL, the team used Joe Borchard to avoid having Willie as the everyday CF. Grover likes Bloomquist as a super-sub pinch runner. If they were willing to use Borchard, they oughta be willing to use Choo/Doyle. Then the question just becomes defensive alignment.
Is there anything published about Ichiro willing to move to center field, even if it’s just temporary? Also Dave, what do you think is best for Doyle to prevent injury? He seems to keep getting hurt on the basepaths so I’m wondering if there’s something he’s doing wrong going about that. If there’s nothing fixable I think he should just be told to take it easy on the bases. We need his bat for a whole season more than we need all of what he offers for a month.
My guess is that Choo in center is the answer, with Willie platooning against lefties.
The comment that Grover doesn’t have the guts to put Ichirto in center made me think of this: if this had happened several weeks ago, when the team was struggling and we were guessing when he’d get the gate, Mike might have tried it. I felt that some of his moves back then had a what-have-I-got-to-lose look to them, but lately he has been more conservative.
Bloomquist is now the only player on the ML roster who has played an inning in CF this year. Choo is outright scary in CF; that’s almost like playing Everett there. I wonder if Snelling could handle the huge CF in Safeco.
Let’s hope Ichiro looks at the situation and comes to Hargrove and volunteers to play CF. Then it’s easy from there.
Isn’t this exactly the kind of situation where intangible vetran clubhouse leadership should show itself?
Thanks, Dave, for saying what I’ve been saying ever since word of Reed’s injury came down — this is a blessing in disguise. That’s also what I said when it looked like Reed would be out for the first few weeks of the season with a broken wrist (cause back then it would have given them a chance to look at Borchard…).
On KOMO’s post-game today, the idiot host (I believe it was Matt Pittman instead of the usual idiot host Tom Hutyler) had the audacity to call Reed’s injury “devastating” to the team. He said repeatedly that it was really disappointing because Reed had been hitting really well lately. I tried to call in (it turned out they weren’t taking calls) and tell him that the injury was the best thing that could have happened for the team — and that Reed hit .214 for the month of June and is hitting .217 for the year (the reason Jeremy Reed only has 17 RBI this year is that he’s been brutal with runners in scoring position — just 6 hits and a BA of .136 with RISP)…
The best in-house option really is to get Ichiro to move to CF for the good of the team — according to Art Thiel’s column in Monday’s P-I the only one that can ask Ichiro to do that is Yamauchi over in Japan…If that’s the case, Howard Lincoln better get on the horn…
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/276230_thiel03.html
There aren’t too many trade options, but taking into account the few teams that are out of contention, here’s a few:
Juan Pierre, Cubs. Not having a great year (.260, 12 RBI, 25 SB) and will be a free agent. If he’s not going to re-sign there, he might be had for a lot less than it would take to get Carl Crawford or Andruw Jones out of Atlanta or Tampa. I doubt the M’s have the prospects or the balls to make a move for Crawford or Jones anyway…
It’s highly doubtful KC would give up David DeJesus, but if there was any chance of it (why would KC acquire another CF Joey Gathright last week?), I’d try to make that move, say a deal for prospects including a Player to be named later that could be Reed when he’s healthy..
The Brewers are still in the playoff hunt but I suppose it’s possible they’d be willing to trade Brady Clark and they’d probably trade Gabe Gross…some KJR host was talking about trying to get Corey Patterson from the O’s before the Reed injury…not a big fan — and if they wanted him they should have signed him as a free agent last winter rather than overpaying for him in a trade…
All in all, clearly the club’s best option is to get Ichiro to play center and get Snelling or Choo up to play one of the corners. The team will end up better than they were with Reed in CF and it’ll increase our chances of making the post-season…
FWIW, before the injury, when asked “Bavasi said the Mariners are looking to make more trades before the deadline. He did not rule out a rent-a-player move, but said he didn’t want to alter the team’s core or the core of the minor-league system to make a deal.”
Say they end up moving Ichiro to center and calling someone up to play the other corner, is there really any need for Reed anymore? Do they keep him around as a light-hitting defensive utility guy or just unload him for whoever they can get?
Re: #22
Patterson was traded to the Orioles from the Cubs. He was not a free agent last off-season.
I know it would be pushing it, and I’m not really appealed by doing so, but is there any chance this pressures management to bring up Adam Jones?
BTW – 2nd inside-the-park in two days at Cheney today! This time, Adam Jones crashed into the wall and didn’t get up. Nelson hesitated on the back up, otherwise it would have likely been a triple or a play at the plate. Jones stayed in the game (1 out to go) after the manager and trainer walked to inspect him.
actually, I wonder if the enforced rest as Reed’s thumb heals might not also be the best thing for that wrist which never has seemed to completely heal….
It’s pretty clear that this is likely, in one way or another, going to bring to a close Jeremy Reed’s future in Seattle.
What are people’s opinions about how much of it he brought on himself, and how much of it was due to the infamous “not-a-platoon” and other misuse/mismanagement by Hargrove et al?
Is it really wise to ask Ichiro to move to center all of a suddent when he’s played in the right all his career? I know it’s for the good of the team and all that, but what if Ichiro isn’t comfortable? There is a reason why he wants an off-season to prepare if he is asked to change position. He is a man of routine, and if he suddenly has to change his routine, there might be consequences which might affect his offense as well as his defense. We’d all like to think that he can just switch like that, but I think he knows what is best.
And oh, Japanese players don’t go to the manager to ‘volunteer’ .. it’s just not in the culture. It is considered disrespectful to overstep your boundaries like you know better than the manager.
Penguin – excellent points all, great post.
I could be confortable with any number of solutions… but I will bang my head into a wall if the “solution” they go with is putting Willie in center every night.
Ichiro played mostly center (as well as anynoe in JPB) his first two years in Japan. For his own reasons he clearly prefers right, but I am sure he will be persuaded to make the change if he agrees it is for the good of the team.
Bloomquist as starting center? And Hargrove still calling the shots at season’s end? We’ll end in the cellar for sure!
Instead of one move, how about two.
DFA Petegine and call up both Choo and Doyle. Against RHP, Doyle could play LF, Choo in RF with Ichiro in CF. Ibanez would move to DH.
Against LHP Perez could be at DH with Ibanez sliding to LF while Choo sits.
That combination would appear to significantly enhance both our offense and defense but alas we are captive to a linear thinking FO.
Just saw this in McGrath’s article in the New Tribune, which pretty much sums up everything you need to know about Mike Hargrove’s rational skills:
“We were down to Perez as the last guy,†reasoned Hargrove. “If I pinch hit Perez for Reed, I don’t know who plays center when Jeremy gets hurt.
Do you think they would trade Jake Woods for Borchard right now? The morons.
#6, the one thing I’d say about Choo hitting lefties is, his average is about 220 points higher than Reed’s against lefties.
My non-sarcastic point is that bringing up Choo is probably our best shot at maintaining the status quo in the big club. Willie Blue could still get the same ABs he gets now. The only change would be Ichi playing RF against lefties and CF against righties.
It’s the logicial thing to do, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see them play Willie full-time in CF, and bring Morse back up, effectively letting this injury hurt the team when it doesn’t have to.
I think this is a critical point of M’s season. It’s now the halfway point, they are playing the best baseball in the AL West. And despite Hargrove giving yesterday’s game away they are still on a roll. They had the best June in at least 5 years despite getting nothing from their #2 starter, CF, and their $6 million closer.
This is the perfect time to make some drastic roster changes. You have one reliever and two starters in AAA that can start and give you and ERA less than Joel. You have a vacancy in the outfield that just so happens to be the spot of least production, while having two guys at AAA who are currently hitting above replacement player level.
It’s time for the organization to acknowledge they need their farm system to produce because those “trusted veterans” are either hurt or just sucking beyond words. Lets see some moves….Choo, Doyle, Baek, maybe even a trade!?!?!?
By the way, it scares me to admit it, but last night i had a nightmare the M’s put Raul in Center and Everett in Left!!!
There has always been this Ichiro thing about needing time to prepare for CF, prefer RF, don’t want to move, blah blah blah from him and then one day Sadaharo Oh (sp?) says, “Suzuki, you’re in Center”. “OK”. Just tell him. He doesn’t like Grover anyway so no love lost.
Hard to believe that about two months ago the M’s could have chosen between Lawton and Borchard as an in-house option. How exactly does a team go from having too much depth to none at all so quickly, and have absolutely nada to show for it? This is really, really brutal roster management.
The only feasible option is Snelling in right, Ichiro in center, with Ibanez remaining in left. Although Ibanez is more suited to right at Safeco, I think Snelling should play there at least initially because he will have to cover less ground while he gets back to 100%.
This is why you have to play your bench, especially when you have veterans like Lawton. You get them all angry about no playing time and they demand to be released and then you lose your depth.
Although Lawton in center wouldn’t be pretty, it’d still work for a while, I guess.
Lawton in center would be worse than Choo in center. He was never an option for CF, and he never should have been. He can’t play the position.
Choo and Doyle are both better options than Lawton and Borchard. There’s nothing wrong with having to choose from better players this time around.
Maybe the Braves would use this opportunity to unload Andruw Jones’ contract.
“Would you like Clement? Adam Jones too? Can I get you a glass of wine…”
Bleh…
One guy I would trade for if he wasn’t aunder club control for the next 17 years would be Jacque Jones. I vaugely remember someone here being in favor of offering him a contract last offseason.
I also still can’t believe PIT hasn’t traded Craig Wilson even though their winning % is less than Ichiro!’s batting avg.
The M’s don’t face a starting lefty until after the break. Choo has been tearing up right handers, bring him up and see what he can do. If he fails which is a possibilty, bring up Snelling after he’s had another two weeks of AAA. As everyone else has said I think he belongs in Right not Center. If Choo fails Snelling belongs in Right not center, either way Ichiro for Center!
I think Hargrove is a spy for the A’s. Don’t forget that it was on his suggestion that we got strapped with Mr. Everett.
So when can we expect an announcement to be made?
Speaking of the Mariners facing left-handed pitching, don’t expect to see Eduardo Perez during the early innings until August. The Mariners will face a maximum of five left-handed starters between now and August, and chances are, they will miss at least one of these guys:
Kenny Rogers
Ted Lilly (x2)
Randy Johnson
Cliff Lee or C.C. Sabathia
Ichiro prefers right because it gives him the opportunity to use his cannon–it’s rare for centerfielders to throw out runners at home.
how about getting on the horn to gillick and working a deal for Abreu? talk about LH-sock. plus there’s got to be a good working relationship there.
The Phillies want the moon in return for Abreu. He is on the north side of 30 and has a huge salary, none of which the Phillies are interested in picking up. The Tigers told them to go to hell last week after they made a series of unreasonable demands, so it makes you wonder just how much it would actually take to land Abreu.
43: Actually, we will get to see Eduardo Perez at DH a fair amount the rest of the month. You forgot lefty starters Nate Robertson, John Lester, Jeremy Sowers, and Erik Bedard. The M’s only have 22 games left this month, but 10 of those could be against left-handed starters. The M’s won’t draw them all, but it look like they will average one lefty starter per series.
Abreu would be a great addition, but his contract would hinder any chance the M’s have for signing ANYTHING this coming offseason…..Which is exactly why Philly is trying to get rid of him.
This is such a day-dream, but the guy i would love to see Bavasi get via trade is Crawford. Talk about perfect! young (24), increasing OBS each year he’s been in the league, lefty, CF, not too much of an injury history, and the word is he is available. Problem is i don’t think the M’s have much of anything the Rays would be interested in.
Bring on Choo or Doyle. Heck, i’m just excited knowing there has to be SOME kind of roster move today.
If Bavasi said he will not trade any player from the current 40 man roster, then how would it be possible to land someone like Abreu? I think a trade is unnecessary at this point, at least to solve the CF problem. Doyle and/or Choo need to be given a shot. Either one will be an offensive upgrade over Reed. If Ichiro moves to CF, and one of them plays right, they might be slightly weakened defensively initially but could conceivably be better in the long run with that alignment.
i want willie in CF for the rest of the season. he’s just too gritty.
What are the thoughts on the theory that Reed can’t hit anymore because his wrist has never healed properly since the first time he hurt it?
Ironic that Doyle may finally get called up juuuuust before I get the chance to see him play here in Portland (TAC @ POR 7/13-16).
#51 — Reed hasn’t hit because, IMO, he won’t. Even when healthy. He hasn’t shown that he is really developing into a major league hitter. He had a high average in the minors, but no power and he doesn’t walk much.
His OPS is almost identical to Bloomquist, and there are zero ML CF’ers with a worse OPS and at least 200 AB’s.
when did Bavasi say he wouldn’t trade anyone off the 40 man?
Reed seems like a perfect 4th outfielder. He could play all three spots, and hit well enough to give guys a day off once in a while.
According to the Rainiers website, Adam Jones will replace Choo in the AAA All-Star game because Choo has been called up to replace Reed:
http://www.tacomarainiers.com/teaminfo/pr/story.php?story=97
Well, at least those of you who want to see a few Rainiers called up to Safeco don’t have to wait until September…
Choo’s call-up has its own post now.
Re #36 – Even then, Ichiro had time to prepare for the WBC. It’s not so much that he couldn’t do it but that he prefers to do it fully prepared, just like the way he does everything. He will probably switch positions when and if asked, but I was just wondering if switching right now in the middle of the season is the best FOR HIM. The M’s do depend on Ichiro’s production at the plate to do well.