Guardado for Travis Chick
The Mariners have traded Eddie Guardado and a large amount of cash to the Cincinatti Reds for RHP Travis Chick.
Chick started his career with the Marlins, was traded to the Padres for Ismael Valdes and had the best 42 innings of his life after the deal, all in low-A ball. He’s never come close to matching that form, and the Padres didn’t really mind giving him to Cincinatti this year.
Chick’s a sinker-slider guy without enough stuff to miss bats more than occassionally. He’s an arm with some potential, but less promising than a guy like Yorman Bazardo was last year. More than likely, he’s a guy who will be a Triple-A arm, maybe find a spot in the bullpen for a few years.
Basically, the M’s gave away Eddie Guardado, just like I suggested below. Well done.
Could have done this last year, and got something more out of it. But that’s beating a dead horse.
Would have preferred a Dixie Chick.
So does this mean that Hargrove can finally admit that Putz is the closer?
Travis in Chattanooga:
[Try linking instead, such as this]
Actually, this is even better than your suggestion, Dave. You suggested a DFA. This way, the M’s get something back for Eddie G, and they may not have to eat all of Eddie’s salary.
Yeah, Chick’s not much. But it’s organizational filler if nothing else, and that can have value. Plus, there’s always the random chance that the kid blossoms into something.
Have the M’s made a corresponding roster move, or is Chick going into the M’s pen (as unfathomable as that sounds)?
Oh, yeah, what Jim said: Who’s the replacement?
Also, what are the chances that they pick up the rest of your plan, Dave, now that they’ve started in on it?
And I wonder how much cash the M’s had to toss away, and why they had to do so.
Have the M’s made a corresponding roster move, or is Chick going into the M’s pen (as unfathomable as that sounds)?
Not yet, no. Chick won’t come to the majors.
Any word on how much cash is “a large amount?” Depending on how much it is, I either like this deal a lot or it’s just OK.
According to the M’s press release, Bavasi is thinking of Jimenez or Kahn in the ‘pen.
Er, GERPOTENWOGEN, not Kahn, but rather Lowe. Why do I always mix those two up???
I just hope he’s funny. That kind of guy is tough to replace.
Pretty funny: On the same day the Reds acquire Eddie Guardado, they DFA Quinton McCracken.
Could the Reds actually be contemplating having Guardado immediately begin closing for them? I know they like Coffey better as a 7th-8th inning guy…
Everett is funny. Depending on your sense of humor.
The change in ballparks won’t hurt Eddie either. Sure his K rate is decent, but he’s going to allow a homer every other flyball there.
Nice Bill, a year late, but nice. Now get rid of Carl!
Also according to the press release, Chick = Asdrubal Cabrera on the M’s grading system for prospects.
Now, time to trade C-Rex for a side of Waffle Fries and we’re set…
They almost called Jimenez up last season, and he’s been keeping runs off the board his last few starts for Tacoma, so he’s the easy pick.
That said, it should be Cruceta.
Also according to the press release, Chick = Asdrubal Cabrera on the M’s grading system for prospects.
Good luck finding many scouts who would agree with that statement. The Padres didn’t like him much when they had him.
I guess I just think about what it must be like for a veteran to be, as Dave puts it, given away. We, as fans, can be upset at a given player’s performance (or lack thereof). The front office, as business managers (or not), can be upset that they are not getting a good return on their investment. But to be that player, that career guy who recognizes that this trade likely is his last, I can’t imagine that feeling. His tank is empty. He knows it. And maybe it came a little faster than he thought.
No one goes out on top, right? Because when you’re on top, you can’t imagine that it won’t last forever.
Wow, that sounds a little more Steve Kelley than I wanted. I just threw up a little bit in my mouth. Hmm, maybe I need some coffee. So, please excuse me for bringing sappy melancholy into the business of baseball. I guess I just wish Eddie well. And maybe also a wish to have back a few of Eddie’s “fastballs” from April and May.
Yeah, that Chick = A-Cab statement gives me tons less faith in Bavasi. But whatever. It may not amount to much, but at least that’s ONE problem off the board.
Now rid us of Hargrove and Carl, and we’re almost instantly contenders!!!
You don’t feel there’s any particular need for a second lefty in the ‘pen? (Not that we have anyone in the system who really fills that role right now.)
Could we be seeing maybe Eddie gone, Cruceta moved to the 40 man roster, Joel taking Eddie’s bullpen role, and Cruceta taking Joel’s starting role? Or am I just getting a little too hopeful?
Wow. Says the AP:
“The Reds made the trade a day after blowing two leads in extra innings before losing 6-5 in the 13th at Milwaukee. After the game, Cincinnati reliever Brian Shackelford was arrested on suspicion of third-degree sexual assault.”
Chances are good that Eddie will keep blowing leads late in the game, but I bet he won’t assault anyone!
Except with a shaving-cream pie, of course.
I guess Jimenez could fill the lefty relief role, sort of … though converting a successful minor league lefty starter on the fly to a major league reliever didn’t work so well for Bobby Livingston … though the M’s didn’t really give it a chance to work, either.
At least Eddie didn’t blow anything but leads. As far as we know.
though converting a successful minor league lefty starter on the fly to a major league reliever didn’t work so well for Bobby Livingston
Jimenez is a successful minor league starter? 41 walks and 48 K’s in 79 innings for Tacoma this year.
He’s got a good change-up, okay fastball, and nothing else. He doesn’t miss bats. His career is going to be as a reliever.
25-
God, I could only dream. I suspect Hargrove likes his LOOGY options too much, though- but it might happen after the All-Star break if Piñeiro keeps washing out on his starts.
And yeah, Dave, I also agree that Chick is probably a organizational fodder reliever in the Mateo/Atchison mode, so I wouldn’t rate him with A-Cab.
Well, goodbye and good luck Eddie. Good guy who’s career ran it’s course. “Everyday Eddie” was a horse in his prime and always gave top effort here. Age and wear & tear took it’s toll. He will get bombed in the Cincy park and will probably retire. It’s what happens when you stay a season too long. Never the less, glad he was here and although I totally agree with the move, wish he was here as the old Eddie. Don’t expect a post anything like this if C’Rex gets the axe.
Was it Guardado for Chick straight up, or was there cash money involved?
If we did send cash, oh well. If not, DUUUDE… we dumped a $3M contract for a bargain-basement gamble. SWEET!
As for Jiminez/Livingston…I’d pick Livingston as the superior pitcher, hands-down, but Livingston’s K rate this year is worse than Jiminez’s. Overall in AAA (including last year) Livingston has better numbers, and the BB rate is about half, which is why I think Livingston’s the superior prospect (you can’t walk people if you can’t strike them out)…but neither of them strike me as superior rotation candidates to Cruceta at this point, and I’d be switching Livingston to the pen in AAA for a bit to groom him for LOOGY work if I could put Chick into the rotation.
That last part should read “if I could put Chick into the rotation for Tacoma”.
32, well said. I wish Guardado was still good enough to be a valuable Mariner, but I also wish we traded him in the offseason. I wish Desi Relaford was good enough too, but whatcha gonna do?
I thought the Reds were refusing to trade with us for PR purposes after the Griffey fiasco. Maybe since he’s been healthier and better of late (at least at hitting), the resentment has eased. Considering that Eddie is likely to be destroyed in Cincy’s park even worse than he already has been, though, I wonder if it will be back.
I hope Cincy fans enjoyed Eric Milton’s homerun displays the past year and a half, because that’s exactly what they’re getting in Guardado. Heck, I would’ve taken a bag of rosin and a six-pack of Miller Lite just to get the guy to stop comin’ to the park. Heck, the M’s are lucky they didn’t have to fully DFA this guy. Well done, Bavasi.
Well said, #32. I’ll drink to that
You don’t feel there’s any particular need for a second lefty in the ‘pen?
We already have two, Sherrill and Woods. Guardado’s demotion/non-demotion from closer status actually gave us an unnecessary surplus.
I guess this is good news. I’ll be more happy when the M’s make a trade for an outfielder. Choo is not the answer. Rather see Bloomquist out there.
You’d rather see Bloomquist than Choo????
What possible explanation can you have for that?
Choo’s already a better hitter than Bloomquist was at the same age (and arguably, a better hitter than Bloomquist is RIGHT NOW), and WFB fields CF like an infielder.
Dave,
Not knowing enough about how these things work, what is the purpose of the large amount of cash? Is it to cover the remainder of his contract, or are the M’s still on the hook for that regardless?
Bloomquist can hit and he’s agressive on the basepaths.
“Bloomquist can hit”.
*sigh*
West Coast King…
Do you happen to be a Mariners broadcaster by any chance?
Because that’s what they say every time WFB comes up to bat.
He can’t hit. And I have no idea why people continue to claim that he can, despite the evidence.
Other than that, I like this move. Even a little bit of value back for Guardado is better than any of us could’ve expected.
The cash is almost undoubtedly to cover the contract, since the Reds are going to be signing Eddie’s paychecks now.
Best wishes to Eddie from me too. At least he avoided being DFA’d (for now anyway). As a fan, it really hurt when Olerud was DFA’d.
Years and miles took their toll on his arm, but he had a 14 year MLB career, and that ain’t nothin’. If he ends up on the mound at Safeco wearing someone elses jersey, I’ll cheer for him.
Bloomquist can hit
No, he can’t.
Willie’s minor league OPS: .716
Willie’s major league OPS: .647
Choo’s minor league OPS before 2006: .845
Choo’s lifetime stolen base #’s in the minors before 2006: 128 SB, 54 CS
Willie’s lifetime stolen base #’s in the minors: 99 SB, 36 CS
Willie’s not significantly better as an OF- his value comes from being able to play infield as a reserve. He’d be OK platooning with Choo in CF, I guess, because I don’t think Choo will hit lefties very well for a while if ever, and neither of them are great CFs, but Choo’s a better player.
Looking at Chick’s numbers, the guy appears to be that prototypical “live arm” we hear so much about. Solid K-rates, high walk rates. Someone get him with JJ Putz to teach him how to throw a split finger!
I’ll probably cheer MORE for him if he’s wearing someone else’s jersey. At the very least, I won’t groan anymore when he comes on the field.
WFB – slugging .304 overall, .222 against RHP. But he’s a great utility guy, uuber back-up, pinch runner, just the sort of guy you need on your roster.
#19 “Now, time to trade C-Rex for a side of Waffle Fries and we’re set…”
mmmm, waffle fries…
On topic, regarding Guardado:
I’m going to go out on a (potentially very short) limb here and say that Bavasi got as much value in this trade as possible. Cincinnati is hard up for relief pitching, they are in the hunt for a playoff spot, and new GM Wayne Krivsky has shown a tendancy to seek out players he’s familiar with from Minnesota. Guardado makes the third reunion that I remember off the top of my head, following in the grand tradition of Joe Mays and Juan Castro.
It seems quite possible to me that no other GM valued Guardado as much as Krivsky.
I’m glad we didn’t trade Eddie last year since it gave him time to give Putz the split fingered lessons. Eddie, thanks for the fine service you gave to the Mariners. We thank you and wish you the very best.
If the M’s continue to take ideas from Dave’s previous post then they will call up a position player (Castro) and carry 11 pitchers. This seems unlikely since Hargrove loves to have an excess of pitchers, and even if he had a larger bench, Castro would simply join the Petagine/Perez brigade of forgotten players.
I am not saying that Bloomquist should be the everyday centerfielder for the next two months, or longer. What I am saying is that Choo is not the answer. I’d rather see the front office make a move for an outfielder. They bring in Perez, and I think he has like one at-bat in the whole week he’s been on the team so far. Trading Guardado is great, only for the fact of not having to shove him out there to pitch once a week.
I’m sorry, but sending Choo out there to center is not much better than having Bloomquist out there. They are both not centerfielders, and I have yet to see Choo hit any better than Bloomquist.
Make a move for a centerfielder, or make a move for an outfieler and move Ichiro to center.
Nice sample size, West Coast. Choo has had, what, 11 at bats so far this season at the ML level? Yup, send him back down. And again, his performance in the minors is so superior to WFB, it’s not even funny.
He’s not WFB. That’s an automatic improvement.
Willie can’t hit that well, no. But Choo has yet to show he has any business being above AAA. I’d rather see Ibanez in CF after last night.
They are both not centerfielders, and I have yet to see Choo hit any better than Bloomquist.
I take it that means you haven’t been looking at what Choo has been doing in Tacoma.
Again, Choo > Bloomquist when both were in Tacoma at comparable ages. Logically, that means Choo > Bloomquist in Seattle, too. People’s abilities don’t magically improve just because they are promoted a major league roster.
Anyway, good luck, Eddie.
Alright. Let’s just leave Choo in centerfield and see what happens. Sound good?
Do not make any more moves like Perez for Cabrera. Save the prospects. This year is not the one to be mortgaging the future.
Now I am probably in a small minority with this opinion: even if we could somehow make the playoffs, it isn’t worth it. I watched the M’s go down meekly in the 1997 DCS, and that’s what we’d see again if we even managed to win the West Division, which is unlikely even if we are within a couple games of the lead when the trade deadline looms. Ok, so the plauyoffs are a crap shoot, but with so many youngs players on the improving side of their performances curves right now, it isn’t worth investing in a .500 team. Please, please, don’t Heathcliff my Varitek again!
I think the counter argument to West Coast King is:
Based on their respective minor league numbers Choo will almost certainly hit a lot better than Willie.
Your second point is closer to truth and echoes what’s been said earlier by the USSM crew. The M’s best lineup, defensively and offensively, has Ichiro in center, with Choo, Snelling and Ibanez filling the RF, LF and DH roles; Petagine sits on on the bench, and Crazy Carl rides the bus out of town.
#59 = I’d rather see Ibanez in CF after last night.
Exactly. The way Choo played that line drive was horrific. Bloomquist probably wouldn’t have been much better, which is why the M’s need to trade for a centerfielder or move Ichrio to center.
That’s why they call him The Ignitor!
Because he can ignite messageboard arguments!
I’d like to see Choo do well, always have. But the boy falls on his face in the bigs. Miserably. When is Morse coming back???
I just want to say that as a man who is very much comfortable with my sexuality… Travis Chick is hypnotic looking…
Oh, for goodness’ sakes, the kid has all of 29 at bats in the majors. Give him a freaking chance before you declare him a failure.
#67: He looks a little like a CPR mannequin.
Yet when Morse hit .450 in 29 AB’s it’s a fluke.
#66– I’d like to see Choo do well, always have. But the boy falls on his face in the bigs.
yeah, those 10 games in the bigs really showed us. Morse is out four to six weeks + rehab
Ok, so the plauyoffs are a crap shoot, but with so many youngs players on the improving side of their performances curves right now, it isn’t worth investing in a .500 team.
If you have anything resembling a decent minor league system, the guys coming up out of it should be replaceable.
For instance, we have about three LHB tweener OF’ers: Reed, Choo, Doyle. They can’t all play at once. Are we going to hold on to them indefinitely? Or does it make sense to find players we DON’T have?
I remember when we had these arguments about “OMG, we have all this great pitching” from a few years ago. Well, now they aren’t as hot as they were then, and we have exactly zero World Series appearances to show for all those arms everyone thought were “untouchable”- and a number of them will never contribute value to the team.
Nobody’s saying “mortgage the future”… but don’t inflate the value of what we have in our minors as well.
I think Morse just tore his meniscus and is out for a while.
Yes, Morse did just injure himself. And, for the record, you won’t find a bigger Mike Morse fan than myself. That said, .450 in 29 AB is far too small a sample size. I love the guy, but that’s just not sustainable.
Groz is talking to Norm (wearing his Mariner minor league pitching coach hat), and Norm has no idea where Chick will be sent; he said he heard about the trade this morning from Brian Holman, who mentioned he had recommended looking at Chick back in ‘04…
Lauren, if Travis ever makes it to the big club, do we have your permission to call him Travis “Token” Chick?
Good Grief…
Choo botches one play and people are calling for him to be demoted.
Pathetic really.
West Coast, piece of advice, don’t ever say a nice thing about Willie B here, it’s like sticking your foot in a piranha pond.
Yeah, like when we talk about how he’s a fine 25th man, express appreciation for his defensive versatility and basestealing as a useful guy off the bench: that’s all us baiting people.
That’s press release yadda yadda yadda for the hoi polloi. It means nothing. It certainly isn’t what Bavaisi actually thinks. They have to put the best face on it for the yammering idiots (KJR etc) and also as a sort of diplomatic fig leaf for Eddie. All the front offices hold their noses and do it, and all of them know enough to ignore it when the others do it.
Another way to look at this is that the M’s got Perez and a throw-in (Chik) for Cab and got Cinci to take Eddie off our hands for some cash. The team is better without Eddie and with Perez; the farm is a little worse without Asdrubal. All in all the midseason trades are still a net positive for the organization.
I’d like to see Choo do well, always have. But the boy falls on his face in the bigs. Miserably.
This reminds me a whole lot of the people who said Lopez was no good after he disappointed in his first two brief major league stints. Now that he’s gotten a chance, he’s an all star — as his minor league numbers suggested he might be. Don’t Choo’s 3 months of hitting very well at Tacoma tell you more than his 8 at bats the last 3 days in Seattle?
Why do you think the M’s have to pay the Reds to take Eddie? Seriously, nobody can hold a grudge forever: baseball is just too small, like a little highschool you can’t ever leave. And there’s been enough turnover in both FOs that the Griffey deal is ancient history (just like his good years).
I still think the M’s should be dumping everything they can on the Phillies: the fact that Franklin is over there pitching is proof they have exploitable flaws in judgement. Of course the fact that Franklin stuck around so long with the M’s (among other mistakes) is proof dealing with them would be like two blind guys trying to play laser tag under a tin roof in a hailstorm.
Derek – exactly right! Use the freakin’ role player in his role. Most everybody on here has said WFB, when used well, is a solid utility player. Pinch run and steal a base, play for a guy on an off day, sub in late innings when it doesn’t make sense to have the pinch hitter take the field and so on. He’s valuable in his role. Use him outside of that role (i.e., everyday player anywhere on the field) and he quickly becomes a drain.
Willie can come in late in a ball game and give you some hustle, no doubt. But that does not a major league starter make. Sad reality is that WFB is good at what he does mostly because he can’t make it as an everyday starter in the bigs. Not a knock on him, just reality. Most guys who do what he does had an ok career and do this as they decline to squeeze a few extra years out. I give him props for making the most out of what may be a non-career in other circumstances. Some guys with his ability may never make it up on certain clubs because the minor league system has too many guys in front of them. He plays his role well when he’s put out there in it.
Yeah, small sample theater had people proclaiming Lopez a bum and Morse and Willie all-stars. Choo clearly isn’t a born CF, and needs to be in a corner (or on a less defensively-dependent team), but he’s not worse than Willie. And Willie is far too valuable as a sub, something Choo can’t do. The team is better with Choo in CF and Willie waiting to pinch run or sub in or give a starter a day off. Now, they need a long term solution for both LF and CF, but there’s been enough talk about that already about the clearly superior options in the short term (ditch Everett, bring up Doyle, do the platoon shuffle) and long term (move Ichiro into CF with time to prepare, or find somebody in the offseason).
But they’ve got enough options right now to keep the outfield afloat, and leaving Choo out there isn’t going to sink the team. The rotation will. If they’re going to keep shopping for talent this month, they need to find pitching, not outfielders.
What #83 said, mostly.
Most of what people perceive as negative bias towards Willie here is due to having seen him be used in roles he is not well suited for (anything that involves more than a rare spot start to give someone a day off) over and over again.
He’s an awesome piece to have on your ballclub, when used properly; it’s just unfortunate that that has basically never happened.
Thank you #85. My smart aleck comment was made because over the past year I have read this blog, there has been an over the top blasting by many folks directed at WB rather than his being used in roles other than what he is suited. Blast the Mgt of him, WB is what WB is, an over acheiving infield UT. Good for him, over achieving is a postive, making him an everyday player or an outfielder is not but that is not his fault. Heck, I would play anywhere asked also (and no, you really don’t want to ask!)
Choo’s OK as a hitter against righthanded pitchers only. He really shouldn’t be playing center field, but we can live with him in a corner spot.
Last night was a bad night for him, but let’s not overreact.
He’s high-end Quad-A.
Don’t Choo’s 3 months of hitting very well at Tacoma tell you more than his 8 at bats the last 3 days in Seattle?
There is also Choo’s 1 for 18 stint in the majors last September when he looked lost at the plate (which leaves him at 2 for 24 in his major league career) and a minor league career, which aside from a great 2004 in San Antonio, is solid but far from spectacular for an outfielder. Dave has previously pointed out that Choo might be the type of hitter whose high OBP does not translate to the majors. Choo certainly will hit better than he has (and better than Bloomquist against RHP), but there is some concern that he will continue to struggle against anything but straight fastballs over the plate.
41. Defense. Choo needs to stop getting hit in the head with routine fly balls to center. That said, we need someone other than either to play center field.
None of us (I don’t think, anyway) know Willie Bloomquist personally. And from everything I’ve ever seen about him in interviews and such (bearing in mind, of course, how much the Seattle media gushes over him) seems like he’s a decent enough guy. I don’t think anyone really has a grudge against him on a personal bsais.
But his skills simply don’t make him a good everyday player, and it’s tiring to hear over and over again “Willie just never got a chance to show what he can do” when he has, and we know exactly what he can do.
One of the things he CAN’T do is be a productive major league starter.
#78 – West Coast, piece of advice, don’t ever say a nice thing about Willie B here, it’s like sticking your foot in a piranha pond.
Thanks. I kind of figured that out.
You have to remember it’s a big step up to move from any OF position at Cheney Stadium to the OF at Safeco Field. Poor kid was probably dazzled by everything except the 15,000 empty seats…
I also figured out that it’s better to have Choo out there in centerfield every day instead of trading for a centerfielder or an outfielder and moving Ichiro to center. Instead, let’s trade away Guardado. Something they should have done a long time ago. And if it took this long to get rid of Eddie, I guess we’re looking at Choo in centerfield for the Mariners for the next two months … if not longer.
92-You have to remember it’s a big step up to move from any OF position at Cheney Stadium to the OF at Safeco Field. Poor kid was probably dazzled by everything except the 15,000 empty seats…
Choo has played at Safeco Field before. He should know what to expect.
West Coast, piece of advice, don’t ever say a nice thing about Willie B here, it’s like sticking your foot in a piranha pond.
Thanks. I kind of figured that out.
Well, no…it’s saying nice about Willie that’s stupid. Saying he has good baserunning skills is a nice thing, but it’s not stupid. Saying that he can hit is a nice thing, but it’s not very smart because the figures show that he DOESN’T hit.
He hustles well, he steals bases well and he’s a good piece to have on the bench as your 24th or 25th player—those are all good things to say….
Yeah, she’s joking there, big guy.
I just only hope that this doesn’t effect the players attitudes in a dramatic way. Eddie was struggling and not getting any younger, so from a baseball stand point, it was a no-brainer to trade him. Yet I can’t say this is a great trade just because I know that a veteran guy with great character in Eddie Guardado is now gone from this clubhouse, whereas complainers and baggage such as Carl Everett and Joel Pineiro are still on this team in a race for the AL West. Which is why I will never 100% support the timing of this trade. Because there is no doubt in my mind that Eddie is one of the big reasons why the clubhouse has developed good chemistry since the ‘04 season when a lot of this nucleus came up to Seattle with his sense of humor and ability to help the younger players adjust to MLB life (such as J.J. Putz).
I just hope that the lack of Eddie’s presence in the clubhouse won’t get this club out of focus because we’ve got work to do.
We’ve got a pennant race to try to win, so we might as well make the most of what we have, no matter who is in that clubhouse.
Cabrera was batting only .236 with a .683 OPS when he was traded. This in 203 at bats. I don’t see that he was such a hot prospect. Especially since he was playing behind Betancourt.
It is difficult to project minor league numbers to major league numbers. Back when the M’s AAA team was in Calgary, they had two guys hitting over .350, Mickey Brantley and Edgar. Edgar maintained that ability in the bigs. Brantley washed out in twice, hitting below .200 if I recall correctly.
What? How much do the “yammering idiots” on KJR care about A-Cab? Really, the only people that seem to me to feel the M’s got fleeced on the A-Cab trade are respectable folks who would really have nothing to do with the “yammering idiots” on KJR.
I probably spoke too soon in stating my lack of trust in Bavasi & Co’s ability to assess prospects. The info I’ve gathered since about Chick makes me a little more excited about the potential for this being a great move, not just because it eliminates one of the major problems for the M’s (Guardado).
I’ve been chided ’round here for linking to my blog, but I actually just wrote along the lines of what you (joser) suggested: I wonder if in 5 years we’ll be seeing this series of trades as “Eddie for Eddie and A-Cab for Chick.” Kinda like the trades with Boston: Moyer for Varitek/Lowe and Bragg for Slocumb.
Kinda like the trades with Boston: Moyer for Varitek/Lowe and Bragg for Slocumb.
Wasn’t it Moyer for Bragg and Varitek/Lowe for Slocumb?
Heres the BA scouting report on Chick. A 91-92 MPH fastball that touches 94, a hard slider that is an average pitch with above average potential, and a below average change-up. More of a thrower than a pitcher, profiles to middle-relief unless his changeup gets better.
I wonder if in 5 years we’ll be seeing this series of trades as “Eddie for Eddie and A-Cab for Chick.†Kinda like the trades with Boston: Moyer for Varitek/Lowe and Bragg for Slocumb.
Good point. That makes me feel a little better about the trades with Boston.
Yes, indeed it was, technically Moyer for Bragg and Varitek/Lowe for Slocumb. But it sure takes a whole lot of the sting away looking at it the other way. And that was precisely my point
Actually Mickey Brantley had a pretty fine year in 1987, his first full season in the Majors (.302/.344/.499), 14 HR’s, 54 RBI in 351 AB’s. He had some injuries that stalled his career after that year and his Major League career was over a couple of years later…
104. Hmmm. Thanks for correcting my memory.
Actually, if you actually pay attention to what is said here, the vast majority of it is complaints about the way he is used and not about his abilities (except to the extent he is used in ways that exceed his abilities). And he does get praise when he’s used correctly, and does a good job. See DMZ’s comment earlier for an example; that is consistently the position of the authors of the blog, and most of the other people posting here as well. Of course, if you think Willie is the heart and soul of the team and deserves to be starting, anyone making a rational appraisal of his value and his best use is going to come across as a Wille Hater.
Which leads to he other big complaint about Willie: the verbal fellatio given him by the M’s announcers (Rizzs in particular) which is all out of proportion to his abilities and role — and sometimes people make posts here echoing that inflated evaluation. That invariably provokes a response (redundant as it might be at this point); and admittedly those responses occasionally go a bit over the top (though no more excessively than the praise they are responding to).
guy with great character in Eddie Guardado is now gone from this clubhouse, whereas complainers and baggage such as Carl Everett
FWIW, so far the guys in the clubhouse don’t seem to think of Carl as a complainer, but instead as … a veteran guy with character.
That’s some fuzzy math you got there, PositivePaul.
I would prefer to look at it as Moyer for Bragg and just wipe away the Varitek/Lowe for Slocumb from my memory.
If I could just put that Varitek/Lowe trade into a lockbox and throw it away, I would.
103-Sorry. Didn’t mean to spoil the vibe. That’s what you get when you don’t read the post fully.
104. Having gone back and looked it up, it seems what I remembered was his first year up, where he hit .196 and got sent back down and his last year with the M’s in which he hit .157.
108. It was a trade right up there with Swift, Jackson, and Burba for Kevin Mitchell.
I wish Edie well, despite this year’s horrorshow season. It was never a personal dislike of him or distrust of his professionalism, just a horrible certainty that he wouldn’t be able to do the job, which he wasn’t, coupled with absolute, frothing outrage at Hargrove’s almost unerring instinct at finding the player who would be able to convincingly deliver the game to the opposing team.
Fire Hargrove NOW! Or better yet, in March! Of 2005!
He’s high-end Quad-A.
I would say he’s more in the Darren Bragg/Todd Hollandsworth range of 4th OFers- and Bragg and Hollandsworth have both had over 2000 plate appearances in the bigs. That’s better than AAAA.
And, maybe if every break goes Choo’s way (stays healthy and nails down a job with a team that shows some patience)…
Player A in the minors: .282/.385/.426, 114 SB in 466 games, bats left, 5′ 10″, 180, cup of coffee MLB debut at 23.
Player B in the minors: .299/.388/.457, 128 SB in 541 games, bats left, 5′ 11″, 178, MLB debut at 23.
Player A is Matt Lawton. Player B was Shin Soo Choo through 2005. I think a career like Matt Lawton’s is probably a best case scenario for Choo, more than a most likely career path, but the minor league skillset isn’t THAT dramatically different- and Lawton was a corner OFer as well.
So, is this Chick fellow related to Jack Chick of the mental Christian comics that people leave all over the place? “Hey, Timmy, did you ever think about going to HELL?”
So would I, MarinerDan, so would I…
Any suggesstions on who should manage this team? Haven’t been too impressed with Melvin or Hargrove. It was sure great watching the Mariners sweep Melvin and the D-backs.
My homage to the 2000 presidential debates went unnoticed.
Fuzzy math? Lock boxes? Anyone?
Speaking of pitchers, we drafted a heck of a lot of them. Has Morrow signed yet?
Sorry, but that’s a lot of, well… Look, lots of absolutely disfunctional teams have won World Series, and lots of happy teams haven’t reached the post season. Young teams can win; vetran teams can stink. For whatever Eddie is worth in the clubhouse at his best (and do any of us really know what’s going on there? And how much it matters?) he hasn’t been at his best for a long time. Is he really a clubouse asset when he’s hanging around like Banquo’s Ghost, the former 9th inning tightrope-walking hero now not trusted with anything except big leads in middle innings, a shade of his former self snakebit by injury and haunted by blown saves and lost games? Even if he showed great stoicism and the class to pass on wisdom and pitches to the guy who replaced him, is a man who wears emotions on his sleeve the way he does a guy you want in the clubhouse when he’s had his life’s work taken away from him? The big mistake was to hang onto him last year, but with that mistake made, and with Putz ready to step into those 9th inning shoes, getting rid of him sooner rather than later is the right decision for the team; trading him to the Reds is certainly better for him than a DFA, so it’s a good move all around.
#118 Morrow signed 10 days after the draft. So far he’s pitched one inning in rookie league, no hits, no walks, 1 K.
#119 Good chemistry since 2004? They’ve played .400 ball since the beginning of ‘04 (when Guardado joined the team). I’ll take a good team with bad chemistry any day over a bad team with good chemistry. Good chemistry on a bad team may not really exist, but may just be a product of the broadcast team telling you the club has good chemistry…
Oh, and as an aside on the Lawton/Choo comparison: Lawton has something like a .650/.820 OPS split against LHP/RHP from 2001-to 2005 (and that .810 OPS Lawton has is actually better than it looks, since it’s a .390 OBP/.430 SLG breakdown).
Basically, if Choo breaks down something like that and you could find a RH platoon partner for the guy in LF who could post similar numbers from the opposite side with decent speed, you’d have a .390/.430 player with 30-40 stolen bases. That’d be a hell of a #2 hitter behind Ichiro.
#116. Bobby Valentine’s name was being thrown around early in the year, but I think he’s turning Japanese, I think he’s turning Japanese, I really think so. He is in his final contract year with the Chiba Lotte Marines, so you would think a switch to the Cheeba Latte Mariners would be about as smooth as sandpaper.
#98: You dismiss Cabrera on the basis on one half-season of offensive performance … does defense count for nothing? He’s an outstanding defensive infielder.
#121: Agreed. Remember Billy Martin. Dude was hated everywhere he went, and did nothing but win.
Billy Martin, by the way, gets a great chapter in my book.
#108: Fuzzy math? Lock box? Is this USSM or the 2000 presidential campaign??
I just wish Hargrove were better at strategery. Perhaps he could use subliminabal persuasion on his opponents using the internet he invented.
Agreed. Remember Billy Martin. Dude was hated everywhere he went, and did nothing but win.
Jack Morris. Doyle Alexander. I’ll root for jerks, as long as they win.
I am sorry to see Eddie (the person) go, but overjoyed to see Eddie the washed up ballplayer go. I am hoping against hope that Bavasi isn’t done, and can find someone to take C-Rex off of our hands next. They just seem so CLOSE to actually being competitive and interesting, now and going forward with the core of young’uns.
Geez. Tacoma at Tuscon postponed for the second night in a row. I vote for a Friday tripleheader.
As for getting rid of Carl…I can’t see how he can be traded. He’s the worst DH in baseball and can’t play a different position. Unless someone gets hurt I can’t see a team being interested in the guy. Best we can realistically hope for is his release prior to vesting the second year of his deal.
Here are the DH stats for all AL teams
Back when the M’s AAA team was in Calgary, they had two guys hitting over .350, Mickey Brantley and Edgar. Edgar maintained that ability in the bigs. Brantley washed out in twice, hitting below .200 if I recall correctly.
Well, except Edgar had an OBP well over .400 in AAA and all the way through the minors. Brantley, OTOH, didn’t flash power until he hit the high altitude (his SLG never hit .500 until he had his .611 season in Calgary)- and he hit .316 in AAA. 30 points of batting average (the difference between Edgar and Brantley in AAA, combined) is still 30 points of batting average, even at altitude.
So, the discerning stathead could have figured out who was the better prospect of the two- in fact, I published an article in the local Seattle SABR publication in 1988 bemoaning the fact that they needed OBP in the lineup (team ranking in OBP in the AL: 10th) and here was a guy in Calgary who was capable of giving it to them while Jimmy Presley was just being terrible that year (.280 OBP in 1988). If you think the last couple of years have been bad, you have no idea the hell the 80’s were for being a fan who appreciated minor league stats as being an indicator for performance…
Nightmare scenario? Carl DFA’d; WFB named the new DH.
WFB is lucky these days to be a PH. Have you noticed how little he’s played over the last month?
haha!!
Maybe he is running out of grit?
There’s no way — Hargrove values Bloomquist’s defensive versatility so highly we’ve already seen him make weird moves to keep him on the field. You’d see Hargrove bat himself before WFB played DH regularly.
That might be an effective move  Hargrove was the slowest player in baseball when he was an athlete. Now that he’s basically Hank Hill, he might bore the other pitcher into bad control with his cup-tugging, glove-twisting, denture-shifting antics at home plate. He could draw 200 walks a year.
I’d like to see that.
Mostly because it would probably get Grover fired.
So, is this Chick fellow related to Jack Chick of the mental Christian comics that people leave all over the place? “Hey, Timmy, did you ever think about going to HELL?â€Â
Hey, there’s a nickname for him — Travis Chick “Tract!”
Even better, DMZ will be able to delete comments that refer to him as Track. A perfect shibboleth.
Speaking of aging lefthanders, Randy Johnson has a NO HITTER going in the 5th inning.
140 — I’d say just a good shibboleth. If it’s perfect, you get to lop off 42,000 heads.
You guys just like saying “shibboleth.”
#98 & #124. Dismissive also of the fact that Cabrera was so darn young to even be IN AAA. I wish well to the kid, and I knew he had no future with us, but I still think we coulda done better than yet another old guy who only does 1 thing well (hit lefties) and who we know Hargrove won’t use well either.
It’s those damn Papists in the outfield, I tells ya. That’s why we are losing games.
But when you’ve thrown a perfect game, like Randy has, where’s the excitement?
Maybe I’m completely losing it, but when did Randy throw a perfect game??
#147: 5/18/2004.
Somehow I appear to have erased that from my memory banks.
Thanks for the link.
My evil plan succeeds! First hit off Randy in the 5th.
Heh, I saw the last couple of innings of that game (whatever game I was watching switched over to show it) and also his Top Ten appearance on Letterman (#6. “Can walk up to guys who have thrown no-hitters and whisper: ‘Loser!’”). But I actually looked it up before posting it because I had a weird memory that the last guy he struck out in that game was E. Perez. It was, but it was Eddie Perez (late of the Braves) not Eduardo Perez, now with the M’s.
I just checked out that Jack Chick guy. That is some scary, scary stuff. It’s hard to believe it’s for real.
More of a thrower than a pitcher, profiles to middle-relief unless his changeup gets better.
“Mr Chick, welcome to Spring Training. Meet Mr. Moyer. You two have a lot to talk about.”
Willie … I AM YOUR FATHER ….
Aaron Guiel made his Yankees debut in right field Thursday night in Cleveland. “I’m kind of a gritty player who takes pride in defense first and tries to play all the facets of the game hard,” he said.
I’ve never heard of a player referring to HIMSELF as “gritty.” That’s just weird.
Yeah, it’s a violation of the gritty, selfless player code.
I typed “Willie Bloomquist” and “grit” into Google and got back 685 results.
I did a similar Google and came up with a 1998 article from CNNSI referring to a “gritty” performance by the Sun Devils in a CWS game, featuring a quote by ASU 2nd baseman Willie Bloomquist. Willie’s performance was particularly gritty, going 1 for 6 in the leadoff spot.
Chiming in late. I think (and it looks like most of y’all agree) this was about the best we could have expected for Guardado. I also echo the “Thanks Eddie” sentiments and wish him well.
Chick has teh crazy eyes. Hmmmm…I think I said that in college a few times.
I can only wish Eddie the best. It was time, but he will be missed. He will definitely be missed. Although I must say that there were persons in the clubhouse that needed to go more than Eddie, but this is better for him.
As for Chick, here’s to hoping he amounts to something.
OHTHANKGODDD.
The way Eddie’s chucked up the ball this year, he’s worth a barrow of landfill, which is all he brought back. It wouldn’t surprise me at all for Guapo Guardado to bounce back a bit somewhere next year. His velocity, while not great, is much where it’s always been, his K rate is still respectable, and for most of the year he’s been finding the strikezone. He has no movement on his pitches now, so his approach of pounding the zone is suicide, but if his shoulder clears up at all and he gets some of the wiggle back, he could be a solid set-up guy for a couple of years yet. He’s a good guy, who came here too old, and we got what one should expect out of that.
Remember that Mariners media campaign to the effect of “COME SEE RICHIE, AND EDDIE, AND ADRIAN PLAY THEIR HEARTS OUT!”? There’s now goodbye and don’t let the screendoor hit you in the but trailer to that slough of adverts. The Ms _have_ to cut loose Eddie, he’s hurting the team, but they look like the patzers they are in doing this.
Dave how long do the Mariners have before they have to call someone up?
THANK GOD!!!!! GUAR’S GONE!!!!
GUAR? Isn’t that a comically theatrical death-metal band?
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!
that’s GWAR.
I’ve never seen a man eat so many chicken wings.
FWIW, the team site now has an article which mentions Chick will be sent to San Antonio.
“I’ve never seen a man eat so many chicken wings”
But what would Brian Boitano do?
hey, I won the poll a while back. what do we win?
er, wait did petagine go first?
darnit! i want swag.
_____________________________
First to go?
* Joel Pineiro (42%)
Joel Pineiro -> 42% (241 Votes)
* Roberto Petagine (23%)
Roberto Petagine -> 23% (133 Votes)
* Carl Everett (19%)
Carl Everett -> 19% (108 Votes)
* Eddie Guardado (17%)
You Have Voted For This Choice – Eddie Guardado -> 17% (97 Votes)
* Gil Meche (0%)
Gil Meche -> 0% (1 Votes)
Total Votes: 580
Can the Ms require Chick to saw off one of his fingers?
This is why people send us email complaining about the crappy quality of the comments.
Gregor: Awesome. I would be honored if we come to refer to Travis as Token Chick.
oh, ok.
I thought the topic was very well discussed, and thought I’d bring your poll around full-circle.
I’ll try again…
The Reds GM is saying that Guardado will get the opportunity to close.
Perhaps they feel they don’t have a lot to lose by trying him there.
The Reds pen is atrocious right now…its almost surreal how consistently awful it is….. in fact, it’s almost comforting now to see it nightly…. it’s definately stressful when their pen does do its job….I have to look out the window to make sure the moon is still in the sky and the world is still turning as it should…
So yes, Everyday Eddie will get a chance to close in Cincy….kudos to the Ms FO.
Unfortunately, there is a poetry to abject failure and I fear if Eddie rights the Reds ship we will have lost an unrecoverable beauty much like the baseball world suffered when Boston finally overcame the curse… sure the roses will still bloom their proud promenades but the gleam on the morning dew dripping from their crimson pedals will be less golden… alas Eddie…with victory comes a price…the soul both rejoices and mourns.
The M’s saved about 800k in this deal, too.
I was amused, and at the same time I understand Eddie completely, by the article in today’s Times. In part, it said that Hargrove was making Eddie crazy with that “you’re the closer, but you aren’t going to close games” stuff. Apparently he was really ticked off one day when Hargrove told him he would be the closer that day because JJ was too tired, and then when the time came he had JJ get up to pitch.
I can well imagine that playing for Hargrove would make a thinking person go insane.
“According to several industry sources there is a possibility the Yankees will send the slumping Chacon to the Mariners for right-hander Joel Pineiro.”
-New York Post
Thoughts, comments, insight?
Not that Chacon is that interesting but please Lord let it be true.
“According to several industry sources there is a possibility the Yankees will send the slumping Chacon to the Mariners for right-hander Joel Pineiro.â€Â
-New York Post
Thought #1: It’s the New York Post
Thought #2: Shawn Chacon might be the most overrated pitcher in the majors.
Thought #3: I’d still make that deal in a heartbeat, just because of the financial savings and the fact that Chacon has experience in relief.
Agreed on Chacon — it would be a real, if small, upgrade.
Baltimore just designated CF Luis Matos for assignment today. What are the odds Seattle makes a run at this guy? He’s only 27, covers a lot of ground in CF, and would be cheap. Personally, I’m not a fan of dead-pull right-handed hitters who struggle against left-handed pitching, but I seem to remember Matos having a couple of productive seasons in Baltimore.
Baltimore just designated CF Luis Matos for assignment today. What are the odds Seattle makes a run at this guy? He’s only 27, covers a lot of ground in CF, and would be cheap. Personally, I’m not a fan of dead-pull right-handed hitters who struggle against left-handed pitching
Um. Um. This sounds like a recipe for disaster for Safeco.
Dave, or anyone really in the know… How does this deal (Travis Chick) compare with what was being discussed last July?
One of my big grudges against the FO was in not trading Eddie last year, when he was doing really well before the break, and his trade value seemed to be high. As far as I was concerned, any monkey with two brain cells could have guessed he would fall off the cliff pretty soon. On the other hand, there have been comments that the options back then really weren’t much. But substantive facts seem hard to come by.
Anyway, if the Travis Chick deal is better than what they would have gotten last year, then maybe the did the right thing in not trading him. On the other hand, if the deal was a better prospect than Chick, they lost out.
Ie, I’d really like to compare the no-deal of last July to the Chick-deal of this July, to see which was the better move. Any insight would be great.
FWIW, Krueger opined on KJR this morning (when asked if G. had more value last year) that he didn’t think that Guardado’s value wasn’t all that high last year, as he wasn’t a premiere closer any longer, and other teams had more worry about his shoulder…
Huh. That raises my opinion of Kreuger back to where it was before he said some dumb things this year.
As it is, some of the mass media pundits still question the trade, thinking that we could have gotten more or that it sends out a “mixed message.”
171-
DMZ, is this why we can’t have nice things?
Tahnks for the info, msb.
But can you rephrase the double-negative? Or is that a typo? “he [Kreuger] didn’t think… value wasn’t at all high…” Seems the intent of the quote is that Kreuger thought Eddie’s value was pretty low last year, but I just want to be clear.
But, yes, that’s exactly what I was asking. I was pissed last year, because I thought it was obvious we should have traded him. But, if it’s really the case that getting Chick this year was better than what we could’ve had last year, then I’d have to revise my opinion.
Still, I’d love more specifics (ie, they were offered bozo A and bum b, but couldn’t get goodProspect C), rather than the generic “Kreuger thinks his value was low…”
Thanks!
#185– he also pointed out that last year they also had uncertainty about the closer role going into this year (would Sori be healty, could JJ do the job) and so hangning on to G made some sense, but this this year he is a strong personality without a role in the bullpen (and so without a role in the clubhouse) and they had to move him.
but this this year he is a strong personality without a role in the bullpen (and so without a role in the clubhouse)
You know, this is something “chemistry” proponents and “clubhouse leadership” proponents neglect….
If you don’t contribute to the team, on at least a league average basis, how the heck can you lead? Or provide chemistry?
#187– Krueger thought the outside valuation of Guardado wasn’t very high. Stark was on KJR at the deadline last year and said that the combination of Guardado’s contract (money, closing incentives) and shoulder injury led to fewer inquiries and lowered perceived value. FWIW, Guardado also had the (mostly East Coast) 10-team no-trade list.
I don’t know that anyone has heard what might have been offered and by whom last year….
It seems that our position players often go on to have better seasons elsewhere, Cirillo, Aurilia, Winn, Olivo. This may be park effects, or perception, as I (and others it seems) are bothered by the potential upside realized elsewhere, than grateful for those traded away that did nothing, and eventually left the sport altogether.
I wonder if the same will happen with a Pitcher (a la Fuentes).
Here’s the Red’s view of the trade.
Guardado
Whoops Apologies. Couldn’t get my href/link to work.
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp?c_id=cin
But the Reds contend that Guapo could be their closer and Krivsky is a genious in turning one team’s garbage into Cincinatti’s treasure.
#191: It seems that our position players often go on to have better seasons elsewhere, Cirillo, Aurilia, Winn, Olivo.
Every player you mentioned went to the JV league (aka NL).