Dobbs, Jones up, Choo, Oliveros down
Dave · July 13, 2006 at 1:29 pm · Filed Under Mariners
In addition to the Jones move we told you about yesterday, the M’s have also swapped out Shin-Soo Choo for Greg Dobbs.
Basically, they’re not ready to kick Everett to the curb quite yet, so Dobbs gets the Petagine role of sitting on the bench and never playing, instead of Choo or Snelling. When seen through that perspective, it’s hard to argue with.
But man, they need to get rid of Everett already.
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Still sucks. I’m thinking Everett goes when Hargrove goes.
I’d be very interested in knowing more about the internal politics surrounding Everett. Can Hargrove STILL be his unapologetic apologist?
“Dobby the Bench Elf” is a lot more catchy than “Robby the Bench Elf”, you know.
Bavasi has a lot of say into who goes onto the 25 man roster. He defers to Hargrove, mostly, on how those guys should be used. So, if Grover looked at a roster with Snelling or Choo on it and said “hey, Bill, I’m still DH’ing Everett, so those kids aren’t going to play much up here”, I can understand why Bavasi would then respond with a “fine, here’s Greg Dobbs then.”
If Bavasi wants someone else DH’ing besides Carl Everett, he’s apparently going to have to remove Everett from the roster.
My guess is that there is that Bavasi is saying a lot of:
“Look you need a lefty hitter and while he may be worthless hitting right handed, he can still a bit left handed. Also, he did play for a team that won it all last season.”
After he’s done saying that 29 times without a taker, Carl will be DFA’d for Snelling.
Speaking of roster removal…
What’s the logic behind getting Dobbs on the 40-man (assuming that the Petagine/Oliveros goes to Adam Jones)? They need room on the 40-man to bring Dobbs up, right — if so, where does it come from?
Some of the USSM preseason consensus was off — i.e., no way Reed goes for only Papelbon or Arroyo — but on Everett, it plays out like we had a peek at the hole card. He can’t field, can’t hit, and gosh darn it, people don’t like him.
#6. Just a thought, but couldn’t they put Reed on the 60-day DL to open up a spot?
Question. How is outrighting a player to the minors different than optioning a player to the minors? (I read that Oliveros was outrighted).
Doesn’t outrighting Oliveros mean they took him off the 40?
#6
Guardado out Lowe in.
Reed out Choo in.
Choo out Jones in.
Petagine out Oliveros in. (while Joh was in Japan)
Oliveros out Dobbs in.
Reed~Jones
Petagine~Dobbs
Guardado~Lowe
Did I miss anything?
oh yeah, Everett still sucks.
Besides other things outrighting takes him off the 40 while optioning would have kept him on the 40 but off the 25 man.
Well, the M’s site could be wrong….
Guardado out; Chick in (he’s listed on the M’s 40-man page)
Reed DL’d; Lowe up
Petagine out; Oliveros in
Oliveros outrighted; Jones in
Choo -> Tacoma doesn’t remove him from the 40-man.
Therefore, they still need to make 40-man room for Dobbs…
The 40 man wasn’t full when they started all these moves.
Dave, I know. But since A-Cab wasn’t on the 40-man, that extra slot was filled with Eduardo Perez.
And the current iteration of the M’s 40-man has 41 players on it (42, if you count Reed).
Hmm, you’re right. My guesses, then, are Foppert to the 60 day DL or Bohn being DFA’d.
Frigging Dobbs is back?
Even taking Petagine’s role of designated splinter picker is a waste of a bench spot … where’s Doyle?
Dobbs stats in Tacoma aren’t all that impressive:
http://tinyurl.com/pyef2
.299/.366/.428 … too bad that page doesn’t show splits
It’s admittedly fairly minor, but I don’t really see why the team decided to swap out Petagine for Dobbs. Given the roster on the 8th and the roster today, it wouldn’t have been hard at all to keep Petagine around. Just swap Choo with Oliveros, then Oliveros with Jones. The team would’ve definitely had enough OF depth to make it through Sunday’s game without Choo or Jones, since they consider Bloomquist to be a CF.
Given their most recent AAA numbers:
Petagine — .327/.452/.635 in 266 ’05 ABs with Pawtucket
Dobbs — .299/.366/.428 in 311 ’06 ABs with Tacoma
I just don’t see where Dobbs comes out ahead. He probably gives you more positional flexibility off the bench, but it’s not like Hargrove would use it, since he’s putting Beltre and Sexson in the lineup 101% of the time. As far as I can tell, no one has claimed Petagine, so maybe he’ll wind up sticking around Tacoma and be around in the case of emergency. In whatever limited ABs Dobbs winds up with, having Petagine instead of Dobbs probably won’t make a big difference, but it doesn’t mean that it’s a good idea to make that swap.
Don’t forget 40-man roster member Jeff Harris, a prime candidate for DFA while he rehabs in Arizona…
Re: Everett… Can anyone confirm what it takes for his second year to vest? I read 450 ABs, which given where he’s at now (272, I believe) would lead me to believe that the FO figures there’s still lots of time before they have to pull the trigger on the guy. But that’s assuming that 450 ABs is the vesting figure.
Reed was put on the 60 day. Oliveros outrighted. That creates the 2 needed roster spots.
Link didn’t work, copy and paste for confirmation of the moves.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2518387
.299/.366/.428 … too bad that page doesn’t show splits
Gregg Dobbs minor league splits for 2006. Looks like, strangely, a lot more power (~.200 ISO vs. ~.100 ISO) against LHP than against RHP, about the same walk rate against each and pretty typical batting average platoon split. I’m guessing the reverse platoon split in his power numbers is probably just a small sample size blip. Based on these numbers anyway, I’d expect him to have pretty normal platoon splits going forward.
You know what’s funny? When they finally do get rid of Everett, you’ll have all these national pundit types saying “how could they release Everett? He’s 3rd on the team in home runs!!” etc etc etc
Unless, of course, he removes Grover from the dugout.
Dave, you’re suggesting that a battle of wills may be raging in the FO, unless you’re being sarcastic here. A number of people apparently believe Snelling is the best hitter in the organization. Everyone, except Grover. Someone please explain his affection for a sub-.230 DH.
One more reason to hate Grover, one more reason to steer clear of Safeco.
What any fan of the game should realize is that Carl is trying to hit a homerun with every swing, so he’s bound to hit a few.
Everett could still be DFA’d to bring Snelling up in the next day or so. Bavasi is probably working to get him traded before announcing that though.
If it was a moves as mundane as 60 Day DLing Foppert or Morse, or DFAing Harris, they would’ve annonced it along with the other moves.
Everett has to have some sort of trade value as a player to fill the role he had with the White Sox last year.
If we got something for Eddie, we should be able to get something for Carl.
Speaking of roster moves, looks like we should have waited a few days or sweetened the pot on the Guardado deal as the Reds today essentially gave away Austin Kearns AND Felipe Lopez to the Nationals for relievers Gary Majewski and Bill Bray (there were other pieces but that seems to be the core of the deal).
Now even Jim Bowden rips off the Reds. (Or am I missing something?)
Everett offers nothing to a NL team,
Not much of a chance Bavasi trades within the AL west,
The only team i can think of that would be half-way interested in Everett would be the Twins. They are the only other AL team that has gotten less production out of their DH than the M’s. Maybe they could work out another Boone-type deal.
Hopefully Petegine didn’t disrupt Dobbs’ butt-groove on the bench.
I think the Reds deal included a total of eight players. I haven’t seen enough about all of the players involved to see how even the trade was, but I know the Reds gave up two everyday players for bullpen help, and Royce Clayton (journeyman infielder extraordinaire).
If we got something for Eddie, we should be able to get something for Carl.
except that, where eddie is the type of guy you really want around your locker room, and the type of guy that takes demotions like a man, everett in comparison is the polar opposite of that.
it really is like buying a box off ebay that’s advertised as a surprise, and the owner describing it says ‘it might or might not emit a ticking sound, you’ll just have to buy it to find out”
The only team i can think of that would be half-way interested in Everett would be the Twins.
I’m pretty sure even they wouldn’t be interested in Everett. Right now, they’re pretty satisfied with a Jason Kubel/Lew Ford platoon in LF with Shannon Stewart pushed to DH’ing most of the time thanks to injury. I can’t see them swapping out Stewart for Everett. Not a bad thought, though, as their overall DH production has been awful, despite the fact that Mauer hits there on a lot of his days off now. Rondell White was really just that bad.
Carl was a bench player last year with the Sox, and seemed to handle it okay. If he were traded, he might not expect a starting role, and therefore be more willing to accept a spot on the bench?
Okay, wishful thinking..
But if you’re trying to sell a lemon, you have to think like a used car salesman. Maybe we can ask Bud Selig for help?
Giving away the farm for bullpen help…sound familiar? Good GMs get their bullpen help BEFORE the season, when it’s cheap.
Bavasi has a lot of say into who goes onto the 25 man roster. He defers to Hargrove, mostly, on how those guys should be used.
This approach is asinine. It’s like packing your child a lunch for school and all he eats is the candy. Not to say that most of these moves for bench players are the end-of-the-world, but when you are messing with the potential development of arguably our best prospect it’s gonna piss some people off.
Hargrove better play Jones or else the pitchforks need to come out.
To be fair, it isn’t just Bavasi and Hargrove that work this way, it’s every organization in the majors (with the possible exception of the Yankees in the 80s, when Steinbrenner cooked the lunch and then forcefed it to his manager).
31 – According to MLB.com, the Reds give up Kearns, Lopez and RP Ryan Wagner for relievers Majewski, Bray and Daryl Thompson plus IF Brendan Harris and SS Royce Clayton.
So the Reds gave up three interesting young talents for what looks like a bunch of journeymen. Kearns, at age 26, is hitting .274/.351/.492 in his first real season as an everyday player – one of his PECOTA comparables is Pat Burrell, FWIW. Felipe Lopez last year hit .291/.352/.486 with 15 SB in his age 25 season; at age 26 he’s running more and slugging less but s not exactly a washout. Wagner hasn’t shown much in 2 seasons but was a first round pick in 2004, turns 24 this week and makes only $380,000 (according to Hardball Times).
Majewski has an ERA+ of 121 this year; Bray an ERA+ of 110, and Thompson is in a rookie league. Royce Clayton is Royce Clayton (.269/.315/.348, age 36). Unless Harris is an uber-prospect (.794 OPS at 2B for AAA New Orleans), this just looks terrible.
And just to be clear, I’m not saying we could have gotten Kearns for Guardado. But Cincinnati dose look to be paying far too much for short-term bullpen help.
Bavasi should have a lot of say in who goes on the roster, since he is the GM. And Hargrove should have a lot of say in how they are used, since he is the manager. That is what they were hired to do!
If they can’t do it correctly (either one of them), then they should be replaced!
Hopefully we see Everett DFA’d and Snelling up now.
Speaking of roster moves, looks like we should have waited a few days or sweetened the pot on the Guardado deal as the Reds today essentially gave away Austin Kearns AND Felipe Lopez to the Nationals for relievers Gary Majewski and Bill Bray (there were other pieces but that seems to be the core of the deal).
Now even Jim Bowden rips off the Reds. (Or am I missing something?)
That’s an absolute slaughter. It’s worse than Lowe/Varitek for Slocumb. Basically, if Travis Chick doesn’t morph into Jason Schmidt right now, Bavasi could’ve gotten so much more for Eddie.
The Reds got the equivalents of Eddie, Mateo, Justin Thomas, Hunter Brown, and Asbrudal Cabrera for Kearns, Felipe Lopez, and Ryan Wagner.
If I were a Reds fan I’d committ suicide.
#7. …but on Everett, it plays out like we had a peek at the hole card. He can’t field, can’t hit, and gosh darn it, people don’t like him.
I didn’t get it at the time, and I STILL don’t understand how the M’s FO could be so stupid as to get a guy with Carl Everett’s reputation for disrespecting authority, and in particular disrespecting Jamie Moyer in that Red Sox/M’s game in 2001, spitting and grabbing his (C-Rex’s, not Jamie’s) family jewels after hitting a HR off Moyer.
I’ll bet they STILL don’t sit together on the bus…
Hopefully we see Everett DFA’d and Snelling up now.
How long have we been hearing this for?
#44 – When did we sign Everett?
well to make 40 man room for Dobbs somebody has to go, and who’s to say it won’t be Everett with Snelling up to take his spot? Maybe they are just figuring out how to break it to Everett.
Free Doyle. Free Doyle. Free Doyle (says Thingray, rocking back and forth in his office chair like Leo Mazzone)
Possible poll question: If the FO were to make one, and only one, of the following moves, which move would make you most pleased?
A. DFA’d Everett
B. Bring up Doyle
C. Fire Hargrove
D. Trade Pineiro
BTW, I can’t recall far enough back, but when he’s healthy for a stretch, what kind of power numbers does Doyle produce? 20-25 HR type of guy?
Let me re-phrase that. What kind of power numbers could we expect from Doyle at the MLB level?
20-25 sounds about right based on what others have said. Basically he’s not considered a “home run hitter” (which seems to be about 30HR or so).
FWIW, Firstinning.com has him at 15-20 HR.
http://firstinning.com/players/Chris-Snelling-768/prospect/
The player I have heard the most comparisons for Doyle is Rusty Greer who hit in between 18 and 26 hr’s per year in his prime. That sounds about right to me, uneducated as it may be.
#48, asking that question is like asking if I could have one, and only one of the following, which would make me most pleased:
1. Jessica Alba
2. Jessica Simpson
3. Lindsay Lohan
4. Maria Sharapova
How can ya possibly choose?
And all seem very unlikely at this point. Nothing personal.
I would easily choose Alba, but wouldn’t be dissapointed with any of the others. Come to think of it, that is the same reaction to the M’s poll question!
D. Trade Pineiro
Speaking of which, if he’s not traded before his start Tuesday against the Yankees, guess who Pineiro will be going up against. No, not Chacon, the guy the rumors have him about to be traded for. Instead, the Yankees have decided that they prefer Sidney Ponson to either of them.
48 & 54 – I’ll take Fire Hargrove and Jessica Alba please.
Personally, I would take Sharapova, and get rid of Jurassic Carl. I tend to prefer athletes over drama queens. Coincidentally my inspiration for both choices.
here’s a haiku:
The Ms are better,
The reds didn’t get schooled,
Use your minds people.
“Frigging Dobbs is back?”
Why the hate Xteve?
So how much longer do we have until Everett’s contract vests and we’re stuck with him for another year? Despite his lack of playing time during inter-league play, I imagine it’s approaching within the next month.
Am I crazy in thinking Bavasi is smart enough to keep that horrible event from taking place?
I’ll take DFA’ing Everett over firing Grover. One of Hargrove’s weaknesses is trotting Everett out there every day. With Everett gone that’s at least one less bad decision he can make on a dialy basis. As for B, I still think Doyle’s still too risky especially in the field and the agressive base running policy. Finally there’s Pineiro, he’s done as a starter (at least for us) but he may have value in the bullpen. He need’s to go but if it’s between him and Everett I’ll keep Joel.
Oh yeah, I’ll take Alba also.
It seems pretty clear that Hargrove is the one who is championing Everett. The question I have is given that, and given his terrible (miss-)management, and given that Dah Rohn probably ‘knows where the pens in the desk are’ (to quote Dave from the meet -n- greet), why is Grover still in charge?
I was under the impression that Grover was on a short leash and would have to (paraphrasing Dave again here) ‘go to the world series and sweep it’ to keep his job. I honestly don’t see any logical reason he’s still around.
How would the M’s sell an Everett DFA? I mean, heck, when they signed him, season ticket holders were sent a letter by Chuck Armstrong stating that Carl would be a swell addition to the team.
“We believe Carl will be an asset to the Mariners both on and off the field. As a switch-hitter, he will provide our lineup with versatility and the left-handed run production we need. He was a key contributor to the Chicago White Sox Championship season, hitting .300 in the post season.”
-Chuck Armstrong, December 14, 2005
On second thought, if they fired Hargrove, the other options would probably fall into place naturally. A new manager wouldn’t have the same reluctance to admit the mistake of bringing in Carl, and presumably wouldn’t have a problem sitting him right away. This would likely lead to the eruption of Mt. Everett and a subsequent DFA. Doyle would seem to be the natural replacement. Finally, a new manager would not likely have any influence on trading Pineiro, but would at least take his junk out of the rotation. This one move could solve all three problems. So, I am changing my anwer. But I am sticking with Sharapova.
What scares me, what really really scares me: Dusty Baker has worn out his welcome with the Cubs. He’s already said more than once he’d love to coach the Mariners (all those arms to destroy! Oh, and the fishing too.) If Hargrove is fired…
Be careful what you wish for.
Here’s how I’d sell an Everett DFA: bring up Doyle, stick Everett’s ass on the bench and wait for the inevitable explosion (it wouldn’t take long). Then when Everett mouths off to Finnegan even the casual fan base will see that he not only sucks but he’s a jerk besides.
I have no inside knowledge, but I would be extremely surprised if anyone but Rohn was given the manager’s cap if we were lucky enough to see Hargrove removed.
trading Pineiro, but would at least take his junk out of the rotation
surely you wouldn’t describe what pineiro comes with as ‘junk’ as that connotes something bordering on crafty or tricky.
more like his matches that he throws around on a gasoline soaked field.
#65:
That statement about Carl was sent out after the wave of (let’s be kind and say) negative sentiment about the Everett signing. It wasn’t a proactive thing.
It was more “hey, this guy might have some value, don’t kill us for signing him” than “hey, we got this guy and we think he’s awesome”.
Here’s how I’d sell an Everett DFA: bring up Doyle, stick Everett’s ass on the bench and wait for the inevitable explosion (it wouldn’t take long).
i’m sure the people that will get caught in the massive cross-fire of c-rex’s explosion wouldn’t be so keen on that idea.
but i like it, make him play on his home field and eat his own medicine.
I didn’t mean to imply that it was quality junk. I think it is widely agreed that Joel’s arm no longer has any heat, and he is now trying to get by as a “junkballer”. Unsuccessful as it may be. Honestly, I think the only place for Joel at this point is as a long reliever, only to be seen in a blowout that we are on the wrong side of. I don’t think I would even trust him in a blowout we were winning at this point.
Get rid of Hargrove and everything else should eventually fall into place–unless the replacement is somebody like Alou or Baker. If they had Rohn as an intermim manager, he would probably petition Bavasi to make precisely the moves proposed. Fire Hargrove and (in re: the other poll) buy some Viagra because you’ve got all four (Alba etc.) within the month.
65 – I couldn’t agree with 68 any more. Just sit Everett on the bench, the rest would take care of itself.
Selling Everett’s DFA to the masses is easy. You just say “hey listen to this new guy’s accent – isn’t he loveable?” They’ll forget who Everett was in 20 seconds.
Let’s revisit Jones and the playing time/ arbritration schedule aspect for a sec.
During last year’s rotten season, fans were clamoring for Felix to be brought up as it would give at least something to watch & root for. I argued on the Marienrs’ mlb.com message board that it would be a pointless move bringing up a 20-year old pitcher in the middle of a lost season as it starts his time clock earlier, and that’s a year lost. For what? For nothing.
And now that move is being copied a year later. On one hand, I’m sticking with my trepidation of starting Jones’s major league clock so early. OTOH, it’s a move that can have a dramatic impact and effect the standings in the next couple of weeks. Jones could have an immediate Milledge-like effect. In which case, the move was worth it.
If he goes 1-for-30, however, than it obviously wasn’t. There’s no way the M’s could cotned at all with the centerfielder platoon they had, not without Reed as an option and not without Borchard to fall back on. Plus I find the talk of Doyle or Ichiro manning CF quizzical. Yes, it’s early, but moving Jones up from AAA is the only choice the M’s had.
Besides, it’s not as if there were any CFs availabel to trade for. Nearly 2/3 of baseball is in competition for their respective divisons, and its not as if you can target the teams that are totally out of it for their CFs. Most of them (Pittsburgh, Chicago Cubs) are using their own rookies with great potential. The Royals would have to be fools to give up on DeJesus- and would we want Reggie Sanders manning CF? And I’d still rather start Jones’ playing time then trading for Ryan Church or marlon Byrd from the Nats.
My .02…
sorry about the typos. caught ‘em just when I clicked the “I wish to add…” button.
Does anyone really believe there would be some kind of negative reaction to the release of Crazy Carl? I just don’t see that as being a problem. If that is an actual concern of the FO, we are even worse off than I thought. The average fan is certainly not invested in Everett. Winning is really the most important thing to the bandwagon fan, and getting rid of Everett could only help that.
[shudder] KJR is playing You be the GM, and right out of the box– “give Willy a shot in centerfield”.
sigh.
true_slicky, just quibbling here, but don’t the Cubs start Juan Pierre in CF? Not that he would be worth pursuing, given the prohibitively high price they would likely ask, and his impending free agency.
Directv is running the MLB package as a free preview this week
If/when they do get rid of Everett, I’m going to miss going to games and hearing random people yell out “Crazy Carl!” from the stands when he’s up. I’m not going to be filing any formal complaints or anything though.
so, will there be a game thread for the Rainiers tonight?
Why all the questions about how many ABs for Everett to vest? Didn’t Bavasi say that if he vests, it will be because Everett’s “kicking ass”? I interpret that to mean there needs to be more to vesting than ABs. Am I wrong? Or are we assuming that he vests based on ABs, and he’ll only get ABs if he’s kicking ass, but Hargrove keeps putting his pre-historic ass in the batter’s box regardless of how well Everett is or isn’t doing? I know no one here has seen the vesting clause, but what’s the guesstimate here?
Remember, the Rainiers will be televised tonight, on FSN at 7, from PGE park in Portland. It’s their only FSN televised game of the season.
I believe Bavasi mentioned that it was based on ABs, followed by the comment that he’d only meet those numbers if he was ‘kicking ass’ — this doesn’t however take into account Hargrove’s dogged determination to play his veterans until they will ‘turn around’
#88– and while you wait, Thiel will be re-hashing his column on KJR this hour….
RE: 89
Peachy. Thanks.
Potential poll question:
Will Hargrove’s “kicking ass” statement come back to haunt him in much the same way as Bush I’s “no new taxes”?
I feel envious. Apparently, unlike Tacoma, you can watch the game from the beer garden on $1 beer night in Portland.
I’m not sure it’s really off-topic, since Choo is batting lead-off.
Or Bush II’s “mission accomplished.”
#89: the “kicking ass” statement was made by Bavasi, not Hargrove.
I could be wrong, but I think the CBA mostly blocks contract language that would legally approximate “you only get another year if you’re kicking ass.” A team isn’t allowed to use most of the obvious performance categories as a basis for incentives, just whether the player shows up at the park or at the plate. As somebody said on another thread “You can protect yourself if he gets injured, but not if he sucks.” So in that context I would interpret Bavasi’s comment as shorthand for “He only vests if he gets enough ABs, and he only gets enough ABs if he is kicking ass.” Which, of course, didn’t take into account Hargrove’s insistence on giving him ABs even when he’s doing the opposite of kicking ass.
Stretching the topic to other recently departed roster members, Guardado got his first save as a Red tonight.
Note that awful eddie is keeping with his shtick. He gave up an rbi double in between two outs for the save. Much funnier now that he’s performing daily for someone else.
Oh yeah–center field would be pretty much a loss offensively anyway, either with reed/bloom, or choo, so may as well let our current CF of the future start his on the job training.
The first out was also a fly to right that was deep enough for the runner to go from second to third. So he definitely caused some anxiety, even if he did fan Helton to end it.
Doyle goes deep tonight … #4.
Wow Tacoma is getting thier collective asses handed to them by the Beavs…
For all the somewhat desperation moves the Mariners have made, it could be worse.
They could be like the Yankees, who just signed (giggle) Sir Sidney Ponson.
98- Yeah I’m not sure I understand that move myself.
No, we haven’t heard any such rumors and there doesn’t seem to be such a story visible there. Trying to spam a new aggregator site?
I just got back from the Portland-Tacoma game, and there’s this thing about Choo: he takes some of the worst routes to fly balls I have ever seen. It looked bad on TV but it looked so much worse in person.
what? you don’t believe that the Ms have what it would take to get Soriano and would want to give it up?
I did think the latest list of suitors (oddly not including the Ms) that Hayman came up were interesting … “The Nationals have received six serious inquiries about Soriano, according to an official familiar with the talks, and are hoping for one or two more suitors.
The list of six likely includes the Yankees, Angels, Cardinals, Tigers and Astros, although Houston now might wait to see how much Aubrey Huff helps. The Dodgers could also enter the bidding, as could the Red Sox. Since Bowden loves the drama of the deal, and since he is also selling off Hernandez, Jose Guillen, Ramon Ortiz and Mike Stanton, the Soriano sweepstakes could easily go up until July 31.”
FWIW, Heyman also thinks the M’s dislike Chacon for Pineiro…
Isn’t Morse on the 60 day DL? That would open the other spot.
Yeah, it’s currently sitting at 41, with Reed (42) on the DL. Someone else has to go. Morse is the most likely to be put on the 60 day. That would do it.
Re: #90
I’ve experienced the Thirsty Thursday in both Portland and Tacoma — when I went in Portland, $1 beers were available outside the beer garden as well. I asked about this a year or two ago in Tacoma, since they have it ONLY for the garden, which is not in view of the field (stupid!) and was told there were (was a) too many fights, safety, blah blah blah.
#83 revbill said: “If/when they do get rid of Everett, I’m going to miss going to games and hearing random people yell out “Crazy Carl!†from the stands.”
Hey, that was me! I yell “C’mon Crazy Carl” at just about every game!
There’s really no point in DFA’ing Everett; he should just be released outright if Bavasi can’t swing a deal before the DFA. Even if there were an AL contender that needed a DH to hit vs. RHP’s, they wouldn’t want to deal for him because if they used him too much they could be stuck with his guaranteed contract for next year — no GM wants to stick their manager with a player whose plate appearances have to be limited. And it’s pretty likely that that option vests with his number of plate appearances rather than his AB’s (not that his 28 BB’s get him that much closer…)
Considering no NL team would touch a guy who doeesn’t play the field, let’s take a look at the (AL clubs outside of the West) still in contention:
New York – Giambi, no interest. Boston – Ortiz, less than no interest due to his history there. Toronto – Hillenbrand, no interest. Chicago — Thome, less than no interest since Carl opened his big mouth… Detroit – Thames, no interest.
Does anybody really think that it’s a good use of Bavasi’s time for him to call around and see if anybody wants to give him a Grade C prospect for Carl Everett? It obviously isn’t going to happen…the M’s are obviously going to be stuck paying all of his contract and they aren’t going to get a prospect back, so the sooner he’s gone the better.
It’s too bad Everett can’t just get hurt and solve the problem for the Mariners, like Jeremy Reed did for them…
jeez…. this is what you get when you go away for a few days…
jones?
why not bring ‘em all up? and for a veteran, we can ask Bucky to come back. and did I see somewhere that someone (out of kindness, not to be named…) referred to this as a sign they believe they’re in playoff contention? but it’s true in a way. the one that’ll squirm out of the stinking heap, will probably be the one that manages to show some consistency end-august. ho hum..
jones? I’m sorry. but this is cold-hearted treatment of the kid. he’s going to get rocked non-stop…
my hat is off to those of you who complained about depth in preseason. but i’m sure it’s no consolation knowing you were right.
Jon, cruel comment on J. Reed—but the exact same thought occurred to me in the 48 hours after he racked up his wrist. Jeremy will make a fine stockbroker who plays a mean game of golf when he’s done, but I want a CFer who can hit, dammit. Like, now.
Lookin’ over yer shoulder there, D-man. For all my worries about playing him too much, notching would warm the cockles of my ticker better than Doyle lining strike one off the Safeco fence in RF.
Chacon: 53.2IP 40ER 31BB (5.2 BB/9) 30K (5.0 K/9)
Ponson: 68.2IP 40ER 29BB (3.8 BB/9) 33K (4.3 K/9)
Pineiro: 106IP 70ER 37BB (3.1 BB/9) 48K (4.1 K/9)
Ponson is kind of bad Pineiro; either one of them is an upgrade over Chacon. I can understand why the Yankees want to get rid of Chacon, and I can understand why Bavasi doesn’t see a straight swap as a good deal (even considering the salary).
Also, as a guy soon to have a published book on this topic, I feel somewhat qualified to say that Ponson’s been throwing some fishy pitches earlier this year, and I suspect that part of the reason he looked okay and then awful is increased scrutiny of his mound mannerisms.
Fortunately, it’s comment 110 in the thread and no one’s paying attention.
Some of us are (those of us not taking breaks from Valve games, apparently).
So your book is on fishy pitches? Or cheating in general?
If you saw that in Ponson, presumably the Yankees know about it too, which means they’re getting a worse guy than his numbers suggest. So now I’m even more puzzled by the move (but my Yankeeschadenfreude increases, so it’s all good).
81. you are correct. for some reason I was thinking Murton, but he plays left.
I keep hearing rumors that Hendry is going to break up the Cubs’ roster as their season is lost. Perhaps he’s looking to trade in exchange for some draft picks, recoup the wash-outs that Wood and Prior have become.
Juan Pierre is perhaps the only option I’d like to see in CF rather than Adam Jones, and I’m not really a fan. Of course, it would have to be an ideal situation in which the Cubs pay a good chunk of his contract and the Mariners don’t give up too much- like perhaps Travis Chick. But he’s a second half player who can run & field- pretty much everything WFB can’t- so if they’re going to prey on lost cause teams for CFs, Pierre appears to be the only option down that avenue.
Speaking of bringing guys up quickly…. I’m watching the BoSox-A’s game (and cheering against the A’s, of course) and for a reliever Boston brings in this guy Hansen who was their first round draft pick last year. Isn’t that rather quick? I mean, sure, he’s 23 and had a college career, but still….
106- You overlook Minnesota. have you seen what they’re getting from their DH.
You’d think with the seasons they’re having from Morneau, Mauer, and Liriano they’d be better than 12 out. How much do you want to think White has to do with that? He’s like their Richie Sexson, hurting them with his non-bat- but even worse!
We could totally play Carl up and get some pitching cast-off like Carlos Silva or Jesse Crain. Kyle Lohse might be more apt in trade value, but really, who wants him?
That’s another one of those insane “they give the M’s a good guy, pay his salary, and ask nothing in return” trades that don’t ever happen. Yeah, and the Reds will pay the M’s to send Griffey back too. The Cubs can do far better in a trade for Pierre (the Yankees need short term outfield help, for example), assuming they don’t want to try to hang onto him.
#115 I didn’t overlook Minnesota. They’re 9 1/2 games out of the Wild Card. Regardless of their recent hot streak they’re not going anywhere and shouldn’t be buying. Yes, I realize that they’d be in first place in the AL West, but unfortunately for them they can’t secede from the AL Central and move to the West at the half-way mark! You really think they want to pick up Carl Everett for the slight upgrade they’d get at DH and risk the chance of having his option vest?
The Twins should be preparing to move Torii Hunter and anyone else that’s not part of their future.
http://twins.mostvaluablenetwork.com/
#111– Sir Sidney does seem to try to get through life in the easiest way possible…
A little late on this, but here’s photos from last night of Choo striking out and Doyle’s HR AB (I think it was the pitch before he hit it).
flickr
You can see the on-field beer garden in the background, with a great view of the field (and a long line, and no bathrooms).
Beers are $2, not $1, on Thursdays, and you can get them anywhere in the park.
Bob Finnigan makes my head hurt.
Paul White takes on the ‘it’s easier to pitch in the NL’ discussion with Arroyo.
oh, and the Daily News says the White Sox will move Freddy for relief pitching
Good lord, this bit from Finnigan rivals Jim Moore in lazy journalism:
Also intriguing and always at play with the Mariners is the possibility of acquiring players or pitchers from Japan.
I guess you don’t know the names of any of the players then, eh Bob? Although with the other suggested acquisitions, I probably don’t want to hear them.
I think this is my favorite: “Crazy? A.J. Burnett signed with Toronto for $55 million for five years, and he had a career mark of 49-50. Meche’s career mark is 52-40.”
That White Sox rumor is going around: Heyman at SI says it’s either Freddy or Javier Vazquez, with Tom Gordon the likely target as Philly is going into full-on Marlinesque firesale mode. Not a good time to be a Phillie fan, but then when has there ever been a good time? I suppose the M’s could offer Soriano, but they don’t want Freddy back and would you really want to make that trade anyway (particularly if Soriano might still have a future as a starter).
Hey, once you know his career won-loss record, you know everything you need to know about a pitcher. Right?
Hey, Pineiro is 56-50…guess he’ll get a big contract too.
Freddy is not having a good year, check THT’s pitching stats. Slightly better than Pineiro but that’s about it. For the Ms, he doesn’t seem like much of an improvement.
Also intriguing and always at play with the Mariners is the possibility of acquiring players or pitchers from Japan.
I guess you don’t know the names of any of the players then, eh Bob?
* * * *
Hey, there’s 130 million people in Japan. Must be a ballplayer over there somewhere.
If the M’s offer Raffy for Garcia or Vazquez I am officially done.
106- You overlook Minnesota. have you seen what they’re getting from their DH.
Apparently you’re really not following very closely. In addition to Jon Wells’ point about them being basically out of contention, you can go up and revisit comment #33 about how Rondell White was the problem, Rondell White is gone, and Shannon Stewart is now getting most of the time at DH. Plus, since that comment was written, Minnesota also acquired Erubiel Durazo and put him away on their AAA team. Even if they thought they were in contention, I don’t think they would even want Everettt, let alone give anything up for him.
I guess you don’t know the names of any of the players then, eh Bob?
He’s terrified of misspelling Daisake Matsuzaka.
Softy is startled that you couldn’t get Kearns & Lopez for Guardado…
Especially when even dw can’t spell DaisUke Matsuzaka correctly…
Softy is startled that you couldn’t get Kearns & Lopez for Guardado…
He’s also startled that he can’t buy milk, cereal, bananas, and coffee, pay with a $10 bill, and get change back.
and you know what else? The Ms should have gone after Troy Glaus.
That’s a pretty bad contract, but I’d rather have Glaus than Sexson. Not both.
Story on the new “Jones Era” up on the Everett Herald site:
http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/06/07/14/100spo_d1marinersmain001.cfm
“The Mariners must drop one player off the 40-man roster today, and they’re expected to release a minor-league pitcher, possibly right-hander Jeff Harris.”
“If Seattle needs a third baseman, Shea Hillenbrand, Tony Batista and Pedro Feliz should be on the market, and the same for Darin Erstad and Sean Casey at first.”
Tony Batista?!?!? Yeah, probably not a leap of faith that he’ll be available.
didn’t someone at the feed say that Finny was getting ready to retire?
didn’t someone at the feed say that Finny was getting ready to retire?
Yep. And he is. Thank God.
Erstad? Casey? Hillenbrand? Why the hell would ANY team want those guys? … did Finnegan just mentally check out around 2000 or something? At least with Beltre youth is on his side, he could concievably get better some day… Erstad and Casey would be like Olerud, Boone, and Everett before them, playing every day in spite of the enormous forks sticking out of their backs.
I can’t remember, did he also think Tim Salmon would provide veteran leadership at the DH position?
Erstad? Casey? Hillenbrand? Why the hell would ANY team want those guys?
Erstad would be a nice left-handed bat coming off the bench, if he were healthy. Sean Casey is a career .832 OPS guy who would do well in a platoon or as a DH for a contender (when he’s healthy). Hillenbrand has some position flexibility and is a decent hitter; again, a nice bench guy or 3B/DH on a contender.
They all have considerable value. Would I trade Beltre or Sexson for one of them? Hell no.
did Finnegan just mentally check out around 2000 or something?
Sometime in 1997 or so, right around the Ken Cloude salad day(s).
I’m surprised to see Pineiro disappearing as the least popular option. Sure, Everett is bad, but he doesn’t hurt the team as much as Pineiro does.
At least Pineiro can only hurt the team every fifth day. Everett hurts the team every day he’s in the line up.
144 The differential improvement of getting rid of Carl is probably superior to that of getting rid of Pineiro. If we get rid of Pineiro who is going to replace him? It wouldn’t be easy to find anyone who can or should be given that spot in the rotation who could provide service that is actually superior to Pineiro’s. Whereas if we dropped Carl we could easily find some bats that could hit just as well or better – Doyle, for example. Plus, people dislike having Carl around. He irritates them like a sock made out of welded cheese-graters.
Clearly some people think Pineiro will improve. I’m not saying that’s at all likely, but it’s worth noting that Pineiro is 27 years old and Everett is 35.
OK, granted Pineiro has gotten worse every year for 5 years running, but maybe he’ll turn it around….
I’m sure that’s the thinking, anyway.
…a sock made out of welded cheese-graters
Yeah, but he’s good left-handed cheese grater sock.
No, it’s that getting rid of Everett is the easiest, simplest and least-brain cell taxing move that you can do.
That it’s hasn’t happened YET shows you how dysfunctional this organization is.
I reserve judgement on Jones call up until further notice. I am excited to watch this game (Friday) against Jays much the same excitement as when Felix first came up.
His deut is on the road, out of the Country, so not the added pressure of home fans in Safeco. Much like Felix’s debut. Go gettum youngster. Good luck.
Yup, I’m looking forward to seeing how Jones handles this step, too. Sneaking out of the office at 3 p.m. just to see the line-ups — I can stand to wait for the full game on Tivo but I can be honing my anticipation if I know who’s on the field.
Dang! Game starts at 4:00, and I don’t get out of the office until 5:30. I should be able to at least catch the tail end if I really hurry home!
40-man Mystery Solved.
Jeff Harris Released.
Yet another day filled with “DFA Carl Already!!!” comments…
Harris can still stay in the organization, even if he is released from the 40, can’t he?
Not that he’s an uber-prospect or anything..
Harris is pretty much the definition of spare parts, I’d think….
Harris was not waived to send him down, as I understand it. He was placed on waivers “for the purpose of giving him his unconditional release.” I interpret that to mean “he gone” (sorry).
We can find another Harris where we found him, or Madritsch (did I spell that correctly?). Dime a dozen type of pitcher. I was just curious if he could stay in the organization if he wanted to, or we wanted him to.
Not very important, but I object to Madritsch being called a dime-a-dozen type pitcher. If we hadn’t overworked him in ’04 for no good reason, there’s a good chance Piñeiro wouldn’t have started so many games this year, and we might be leading the division. I’m not saying he’d be a savior or that he’s a great pitcher or anything, but clearly not dime-a-dozen.
130- I don’t think Minneosta’s out yet. Nine and a half is nothing, now. I na month it’d be. If they can whittle it down in half in the next two weeks, they’re players. If not, they’re done.
Pickingup Durazo is a shrewd move, and I thought, but didn’t check, that White had been dropped. If Stewart returns to the field, Durazo is a better option than Everett, that’s for sure, but they were the only team that was in quasi-contention that I could imagine ‘talking up’ Everett up in a trade for pitching junk.
Heck, they’re so desperate to get rid of Lohse- who I don’t want- they might be willing to make a trade just to have Everett come off the bench…