Game 93, Mariners at Yankees

DMZ · July 17, 2006 at 3:17 pm · Filed Under Game Threads 

Washburn v Wang.

Today’s amazing Hargrove lineup:
RF-L Ichiro!
2B-R Willy “The Ignitor” Bloooooooomquissssst
3B-R Beltre
LF-L Ibanez
1B-R Sexson
DH-B Everett
C-R Johjima
SS-R Betancourt
CF-R Jones

That’s… Hargrove-iffic. So the bench for tonight is
3B/1B-R Dobbs
C-R Rivera
2B-R Lopez
DH/1B/?-R Perez


378 Responses to “Game 93, Mariners at Yankees”

  1. JI on July 17th, 2006 7:26 pm

    Luckily OAK lost, so we are still only 4 back.

  2. Xteve X on July 17th, 2006 7:28 pm

    346 – #4 was the correct answer. It was pretty hilarious when Krueger called out A-Rod for not tagging WFB on the rundown attempt. Nevermind that it was 100% Willie’s fault for trying to take 3B in the first place …what a bunch of saps.

  3. gwangung on July 17th, 2006 7:28 pm

    perez is a solid .091 against righties, so its a good hargrove decision

    And he’ll this result to justify sitting perez for the rest of the season….

  4. LB on July 17th, 2006 7:36 pm

    Suppose you hit for Bloomquist and tie or take the lead. Who plays CF in the bottom of the 9th? Perez? According to, the last time he played CF in MLB was never.

    Your bench at that point consists of: Rivera, Lopez, and Dobbs. Lopez will have to play 2B, so he’s out. You want to put Ichiro in CF and stick Dobbs in a corner? Try asking Ichiro to play CF. Apparently, that just isn’t done.

    Once Hargrove hit for Jones, Bloomquist was not coming out of that game. Bash Grover all you want, but there was no other card for him to play.

  5. JI on July 17th, 2006 7:38 pm


    Doesn’t matter. You have to get to the ninth first.

    Perez goes to right, Ichiro to center.

  6. Mr. Egaas on July 17th, 2006 7:39 pm

    Texas Lost, Oakland Lost, Los Anaheim up 3-1 early but a rookie pitcher not named Weaver going.

  7. LB on July 17th, 2006 7:47 pm

    #355: To a fan, it doesn’t matter. When you are managing a major league baseball team, it matters.

    And Ichiro doesn’t go to center. You can’t even ask the man. It just isn’t done.

  8. eponymous coward on July 17th, 2006 7:51 pm

    OMG, they mentioned Everett hasn’t hit for 2 months on the post game show right now.

    Of course, they are ALSO mentioning trading for Alfonso Soriano. Using Joel as part of the package.


  9. Rizzs? ugh.. on July 17th, 2006 7:52 pm

    I’m sure Ichiro would go to center to finish out the game.

  10. LB on July 17th, 2006 7:56 pm

    #359: Hell, I’d like to see him start a few games in CF. Won’t happen.

  11. gwangung on July 17th, 2006 8:03 pm

    Still doesn’t let Hargrove off the hook for using Perez against Riviera. Using Lopez THERE wouldn’t have tied his hands.

  12. RollingWave on July 17th, 2006 8:33 pm

    Yanks are hardly the model of great FA signings with the likes of Pavano and Wright, though they have a solid enough core and a most likely under valued farm (with all the bash on how bad Yanks do their farm system… today they have 5 out of 8 fielders and the pitcher being home raised… not to meantion their usual 2B is also a farm product…)

    Still though, fire Hargrove!!!

  13. LB on July 17th, 2006 9:05 pm

    #361: Perez for Jones is not a bad call, because of the way Rivera’s cutter shatters LH bats. Small sample size, but Perez does have a HR against Rivera.

  14. vin on July 17th, 2006 9:18 pm

    It’s silly to worry about potential defensive alignments when you are down in the ninth inning with two outs (of course it’s even sillier to have no backup OFs on the bench). It’s like the playoffs when a team is facing elimination and they roll out their best starter ahead of his scheduled start. You do what you can to give your team the best chance to win, worry about what you’re going to do later when (and if) it comes.

  15. LB on July 17th, 2006 9:43 pm

    #364: Maybe it’s silly, but MLB managers do worry about it. Last year, Terry Francona let Alex Cora face Mariano Rivera (I cannot recall who the potential PH was, but it was an upgrade over Cora) because there was no one available to play 2B if the game went into extra innings.

    And he said this even though Bill Mueller had played 24 games at 2B for the Red Sox in the prior two years.

    Major league managers aren’t playing a strat-o-matic game.

  16. gwangung on July 17th, 2006 9:48 pm

    #361: Perez for Jones is not a bad call,

    Not my argument.

    Lopez for Jones brings a better batter than Perez against righthanders to the plate, and still preserves your defensive flexibility.

  17. gwangung on July 17th, 2006 9:51 pm

    Furthermore, saying that major league managers worry about is an argument from authority.

    Major league managers didn’t worry about OBP and SLG before; now, they do.

    What major league managers forget (and certainly hargove forgot) is that you have to get to the bottom of the ninth inning to worry about your defense. The difference in batting ability, I think, more than makes up for the defensive weakness you’d be introducing.

  18. LB on July 17th, 2006 10:04 pm

    #367: Call it what you will if it makes you feel better. My argument meant to counter this: “Hargrove is an idiot; if we had a smarter manager, he would have hit for Bloomquist and maybe we would have won the game.”

    The issue is that the space of (realistic) candidates for the M’s manager position does not intersect with the space of blog readers. The Red Sox are as sabermetrically correct a team as you are likely to find. Terry Francona is as sabermetrically correct a manager as you are likely to find. But given the chance, he played it the same way Hargrove did.

    Bash Hargrove all you want, but you’re not likely to get a different decision about hitting for Bloomquist in today’s game from anyone else who’d be occupying Hargrove’s seat.

  19. gwangung on July 17th, 2006 10:22 pm

    Bash Hargrove all you want, but you’re not likely to get a different decision about hitting for Bloomquist in today’s game from anyone else who’d be occupying Hargrove’s seat.

    If you were talking only about Hargrove, you might be correct. However, there are enough managers who aren’t as hidebound…and longtime baseball fans HAVE seen late inning defenses that have been…well, jerry rigged would be a kind word. You’re wrong on that point.

  20. Oly Rainiers Fan on July 17th, 2006 10:57 pm

    Here’s something from the Tacoma game.

    3 catchers in the lineup tonight. Jeff Clement batting 4th and catching (2-4 with a single, and a 3 RBI double). Guillermo Quiroz batting 5th and DH-ing (0-4), and Rob Johnson batting 6th and playing left field (1 for 3 with an RBI double, and a hit-by-pitch).

    Left field? Yes, I kid you not, with Choo (going right back to hitting the tar off the ball) playing center and Jon Nelson in right. Very strange, but it worked.

  21. John in L.A. on July 17th, 2006 11:01 pm

    “Argument from authority” is a fallacy, he was explaining why your argument was incorrect.

    Now, of course, your argument has shifted from should have/had to to everyone else is doing it.

    To say nothing of the fact that a guy with a friggin .436 OPS against righties shouldn’t even have been allowed to be in the line-up. Let alone batting second.

    But Hargrove can keep doing things his way and we can keep losing, and hopefully he can stupid his way right out of a job and we can move on.

  22. Josh on July 17th, 2006 11:35 pm

    #361: Perez for Jones is not a bad call, because of the way Rivera’s cutter shatters LH bats. Small sample size, but Perez does have a HR against Rivera.

    Jones isn’t a left-handed batter, and the only person that I’ve seen suggested instead of Jones was Lopez, who isn’t a left-handed batter.

  23. Mariner1987 on July 18th, 2006 12:07 am

    The whole discussion about a defensive replacement would be a moot point if Grover would of just started Lopez over Willie.

    I actually think the Perez for Jones move was a good one cause of the way Rivera’s cutter works and that Perez has a pretty good history of Mo Rivera. But if Lopez would of started then you have Perez, Ichiro and Beltre, even though Adrian isnt having a great year I would much rather have him up than Willie. Then if we do tie it up Willie comes in at CF.

    Also im surprised on why Grover feels Lopez needs a day off?? If he wants to sit struggling players then he needs to look at Sexson (who actually had a nice game) and C-rex.

  24. LB on July 18th, 2006 12:09 am

    #372: Perhaps I could have been cleared: Perez (instead of, say, Dobbs, to get the conventional platoon advantage, see comments #314, #316 and #322) was not a bad choice to PH against Rivera, even though he is RH, cutter, breaks LH bats, etc.

    #373: Very kind of you to explain argument from authority for me. If you didn’t get my point when I elucidated it in #368, there’s no point in my repeating it.

    And you know, I’m quite sure I never defended having Bloomquist in the starting lineup, in this game thread or any other.

    We’ll all celebrate if/when Hargrove is gone, and then within a month we’ll be b!tching about the stupidity of the guy who replaces him, because really, any one of us could do a better job.

  25. LB on July 18th, 2006 12:11 am

    #374: Darn, I even spell-checked my comment and got it wrong. Ahem.

    “Perhaps I could have been clearer: blah blah blah.”

  26. Mariner1987 on July 18th, 2006 12:22 am

    #373: My post wasnt to harp on you, I was mainly stating a point for everyone. I actually agree with you that he couldnt pinch-hit for Willie cause the defense would of been messed up without any CF, my point was just to say that I felt Lopez should of started.

  27. JMHawkins on July 18th, 2006 12:59 am

    2 for 5 doesn’t count as a “pretty good history vs. Rivera.”

    “Pretty good anecdote” perhaps.

  28. msb on July 18th, 2006 11:37 am

    hey, he’s hitting .400 🙂

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