Game 94, Mariners at Yankees
DMZ · July 18, 2006 at 3:08 pm · Filed Under Mariners
If I had to pick today’s games most unlikely to turn into a duel beteween pitchers, this would be it.
RHP Joel Pineiro v RHP Sidney Ponson.
Yeaaaaaaaaaagh.
On the other hand, we get an only mildly infuriating lineup:
RF-L Ichiro!
3B-R Beltre
2B-R Lopez
LF-L Ibanez
1B-R Sexson
DH-B Everett
C-R Johjima
SS-R Betancourt
CF-R Jones
The Yankees oblige us by playing Miguel Cairo, who sucks, Bernie Williams, who isn’t good anymore, Phillips, who sucks, Cabrera, who sucks, Nick Green, who sucks, and Kelly Stinnett, who sucks.
Bad pitching versus bad hitting: who will triumph?
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That’s 6 guys – so the other three are A-Rod, Giambi, and Jeter?
They certainly have some offensive potential (Though A-Rod has produced a 0 WPA, and Jeter stopped hitting for power several weeks ago), but then so do Ichiro and Ibanez.
Nope, A-Rod is getting a day off. Damon is the other guy in the lineup.
The Yankees feel bad for us, so they load up the suck… and they STILL win.
3-Well, technically, there’s the small matter of actually playing the game before the “W” and “L” can be awarded.
My prediction at the break for the M’s record during their first 12 games after the break (6 with TOR, 3 each with NYY and BOS) was no better than 4-8. Someone on here offered to bet me on that (he said they would be better than 4-8). I feel confident in my prediction.
Bavasi: Please be a seller.
I thought Damon was hurt (along with the rest of the Yankees outfield).
Okay, so they’re even weaker than I thought.
Apparently Torre has read the scouting report on Pineiro:
Joe Torre, explaining Miguel Cairo in the two-hole, on the Yankee Pregame Show, just now: “You trust him, is what it basically is…without Alex and Georgie in the lineup, you need to do something like that to lengthen the lineup…if Alex was available, we’d have Cabrera up there, but now we need him at the bottom of the order to do damage down there.”
So he’s spreading out his bad hitters so they can kill rallies more easily?
Works for Hargrove
Wait wait wait, second swing:
Joe Torre and Mike Hargrove are exchanging lineup cards at home plate.
Mike: “You’re batting Miguel Cairo second? And you’re putting Bernie Williams behind Giambi? You realize Bernie hasn’t been a good hitter in a long time, don’t you? And then.. what in the world are you doing with the rest of this card? Where did you learn to make up a lineup this bad?”
Joe: “From you, okay? I learned it from watching you!”
(runs off crying)
#10: Haha – was that supposed to remind me of an old anti-drug commercial? Because it did…
10 – Knocked that one out of the park. Well played.
So, if Hargrove is so keen on sitting guys once a week or so, when is he sitting Everett? He knows Everett is playing horribly, right? It seems to make sense to bat Perez or even Dobbs. At least to me it does.
I’m wondering if when Ponson walked around in the St Louis dugout earlier this year, if he ever yell at Eckstein… “get in my belly little man!”
ponson must be loving this heat wave.
Man, I wish we knew exactly when Everett’s option from hell vests. I am so sick of seeing his name in the line-up.
It seems to make sense to bat Perez or even Dobbs. At least to me it does.
Yeah, but you don’t have to deal with Crazy Carl charging into your office and screaming at you! The length of profanity-laced tirades seems to be the determining factor in getting into games.
yankee announcer: “ponson is not a guy who’s ever been connected with being in unbelievable shape.”
$220 million gets you the lineup thats showing on gameday??????
I know baseball’s a different industry, and you deal with extremely talented and driven people, and so on, but if you were the worst employee in my group and came into my office and started swearing at me, that’s the last conversation you’d have while we both worked in the same organization.
that crazy Ichiro…. clearly the Yanks didn’t want him to do that…and he does it anyway… he’s a funny fellow….
#20: Yes, the magic of guaranteed contracts. “Look for the union label….”
This is a ploy by Torre.
Simple logic, Torre runs out all the sucktastic players he can find and in effect, Joel tosses a complete game shutout…
The next day, the Yankees trade for Joel.
Brilliant!
#20….but you’d have to admire his grit and then how COULD you keep him out of the line up?
From Keith Law’s espn chat today:
“Steve (orem): KEITH- PLEASE ANSWER. I know you have previously said that the ANgels are out of the race. WIth their latest 12 of 13 surge, do you think they have a shot to win it?
Keith Law: Absolutely. I think it’s an open three-team race (excluding Seattle), and that if any of those teams adds a two- to three-win player this month, it would make that team the slight favorites. All three teams are flawed in some major way, though.”
I’m working on a theory that analysts look at the standings and see that the race is wide open in the AL West… then they look and see that Hargrove is still our manager and add “except Seattle, of course.”
17. Makes you wonder about the length of Bloomy’s profanity laced tirades, haha.
truthfully, Hargrove probably sees carls fate and his own intertwined…
everyday he likely says a prayer that carl will catch fire..
Richie.
Thank god Sexy! I thought we were going to waste all those runners.
There ya go Sexson!
Also, nice to have a lead.
Sir Sidney, meet Big Richie.
That he’ll actually catch fire with his bat, or just catch on fire? I vote for number two.
Mariners that Ponson can easily get out:
Carl Everett
27. Sometimes I pray that Carl catches on fire. Is that what you mean?
Kidding!
20 – agreed. Also, if you were one of my worst employees and went on the radio and to the press complaining about not getting the best assignments, you’d be gone. Well, laughed at and then gone.
Sexson!!!
22 – only the money is guaranteed. That would be the least of my concerns. You can make me pay him, but you can’t make me play him.
I cannot think of a better slumpbuster for the Mariners than Sir Sidney.
Today’s Fairly Obvious Fact: “Runners in scoring position … they’ve got to do better than that what they are doing”
Richie quickly makes up for his error last nite…
it would have been nice if he’d done it yesterday….
Mr. Obvious doing color….. ***It seems that Sexson really sees the ball well off of Ponson***
Ritchie…. ****So this is what slow pitch is gonna be like when I retire*****
Carl… *****this guy must be sooooo easy*****
Carl (moments later)…. ******DOH!!!!!!!!*******
and now, let’s see Joel’s audition for the Yanks….
Don’t worry Richie…. Joel will make this game a real thriller
Yankee announcer talking about Pineiro’s numbers for the year:
“Look at those numbers, that’s not what you expect from someone with his kind of arm…”
Actually, they are exactly what you would expect from someone with his arm.
Way to go Carl! Did he at least hold on to his bat this time?
best case senario….Joel has NO command and the Yanks have NO patience…
if Joel holds them scoreless for the first three, this is a guaranteed win for the Ms……
Don’t underestimate Joel’s ability to give this lead back.
44: They’re just being careful not to talk trash about him in case he becomes a Yankee. That way they can ballwash him later without sounding like hypocrites.
Joel sure looks sharp tonight.
Oh, man. Who do you think is gonna get it for that? Ichiro?
I dunno…..beaning the team captain….does Joel want to stay a Mariner?
ok, here is the Joel we all know.
It would be kinda fun to see a brawl tonight.
gosh…I might walk giambi now…
52: Jeter is not simply “the team captain.” He is The Captain.
How many touchdowns will decide this game?
hmm, Captain Derek vs Cap’n Jimmy….
gee…I could’ve saved the M’s a run….
And once again, miscues lead to Yankee runs.
[]
Wow…nice gift to Sidney from the umpire.
Welcome to the big leagues, you just got picked off by a fat blob
Welcome to the big leagues, Mr. Rookie.
there it is…another rookie mistake (although he shouldn’t even have been on in the first place)… still looking for his first hit and making tons of mistakes… Mr. Adam Jones!
Oops! Can’t get picked off like that Adam, but you’ll learn!
I thought Derek promised that Phillips sucked!
I thought I was watching a Baseball game… this is a circus!
Once again, bad hitting beats bad pitching.
One pitch, and the Yanks are another run closer to taking the lead back. Way to serve one up Joel!
67: He’s also promised numerous times that Pineiro sucks.
Jo-el su-ucks
Curious, as i have not watched a game recently on TV, has AJ done anything defensively thus far?
Uhh yah…. How many pitches has Mark Lowe pitched this week? He would be my canidate to replace Joel in the rotation… hopefully before the 4th inning! LOL
Maybe this is Torre’s way of saying he doesn’t want Joel.
“I’ll throw out my worst lineup and even Sir Sidney, and we will still beat this guy.”
This bites.
It’s Torre’s birthday today. Unfortunately, he doesn’t get to hit a home run off Pineiro himself, so someone’s got to do it for him.
It could be worse. At least we’re still up by a run…
Seriously -has AJ shown he’s better in the field than WFB thus far? Or is is still the rookie jitters?
I just don’t understand why Joel is still in the rotation, Everett is still in the lineup, and Hargrove is still in the dugout.
Anybody catch Salon’s King Kaufman’s quote of this site’s post on Hargrove’s terrible bullpen management? Kaufman agreed, but was a little kinder to Hargrove, pointing out that the silly overemphasis on the save stat exacts a high price for managers who use their “closers” in non-save situations. He seemed to be suggesting that this is a MLB-wide problem, not just specific to Hargrove.
In case anybody hasn’t noticed:
Joel shouldn’t throw a single fastball the rest of the game. The Yankees are all cued on his fastball and can’t hit his change or slider for shit. Jojima has already noticed this. Obviously Joel hasn’t.
79 – loki – yes to both, imo.
I have to ask a quetion that’s just nagging me.
Was Ponson knighted for his ability to drive while chugging Miller High Life out of a beer bong?
What’s the record for errors in a three-game series?
Loki: AJ made a nice throw last night to get a guy out at second. But I haven’t seen much of the games so I don’t know how he’s been doing other than that..
He was knighted for loading up baseballs without getting caught.
Neihaus: “Big Unit..will start for the Mariners against Gil Meche.”
A little wishful thinking, Dave?
Joel with 3 K’s already. Using them up early this game.
Nah. The Yankees are all looking fastball. They’re getting owned for their own stupidity. Then again, when he throws a fastball, so is Joel.
The Big Unit hasn’t been too impressive this year.. He doesn’t put the fear into me that he used to.
Ponson’s set down 7 in a row?? Gag me.
How many times this year have we said that against a mediocre pitcher?
Ponson got a gift against Jojima. That pitch was a foot outside.
Pineiro reminds me of this passage:
That’s from an article about Ryan Franklin posted in January over at THT.
Wow. Someone on the Yankees figured out how to hit a curve ball.
See? Smart players like Jeter make adjustments, but we can’ hit Ponson.
On the Yankee broadcast, they just said that in 2002, Pat Gillick turned down a Rolen-for-Pineiro deal. Umm…is that true?
I’m already in a bad mood today, and this game isn’t helping!
In 2002 Joel looked like a good pitcher.
Ah, good ol’ Bernie. Thanks for the gift!
98: The score is 3-2 Mariners.
I know, but it feels like it will be 10-4 any minute!
It doesn’t seem like it was too long ago that we had the confident mentality that we could actually hold onto a lead.
I don’t think I’m the only one watching this game just waiting for the meltdown.
With someone else on the mound, I might feel better about it…
I’m with Thingray. This looks like one of those games in which it feels inevitable that the currently losing side will eventually win, mainly because of Joel’s gross miscasting as a starting pitcher. (I say this even though the Yanks are clearly not nearly as formindable as they once were.) Typical Idiot Fan is right that Joel looked like a good pitcher in 2002, but he’s become one of the legions of once-promising young pitchers who hurt their arms. I keep expecting Meche to fall into this abyss at some point also.
Then again, Ponson does give me a glimmer of hope.
105: Did Joel ever have a major arm injury? I don’t recall him ever having one.
Meche already did.
On a 2-0 pitch, Crazy Carl swings at a pitch that nearly bounces in the dirt. He sucks.
Did Joel ever have a major arm injury? I don’t recall him ever having one.
Joel never had surgery to correct an arm injury. Then again, neither did Eddie Guardado.
What was Joel’s injury, a flexor bundle in his elbow?
Meche did, and while I can’t recall specifically re Joel, it’s the most logical explanation for his falloff in performance. I have a general impression that many pitchers try to hide arm injuries, and I would think a young pitcher trying to establish himself would be especially likely to do that.
Everett sucks.
Carl Everett is the best free agent signing EVAR.
Everett can’t even make contact against a meatball. Pathetic.
We’ve got a C-Rexor bundle in our bowels.
Joel had a very non descript injury that kept him out of action for the rest of 2004 and first part of 2005.
I think I’ve found the mechanical flaw in Everett’s swing. He closes his eyes.
When I said I was expecting Meche to “fall into the abyss,” what I meant was that I’m surprised he’s still hanging on and sometimes pitching decently, given that he’s had significant arm problems.
Here is an anagram, can anyone solve it?
SCAR LUCKS
You have got to be friggin kidding me with that crap, ump. That’s twice you’ve screwed Johjima specifically.
I mean, you moved two feet outside before the pitch even came, you blind old bat.
118, that’s his new approach. You missed the “look towards first base while I swing” approach. That one wasn’t working out so well for him either.
Essentially Joel went from a 91-93mph pitcher with a curveball that dove to an 87-89mph pitcher with a curveball that hangs.
Did Sidney Ponson just strike out the side?!? Please tell me I’m dreaming this!
Holy crap, Beltre!!!
Note to Dave N.:
Giving up three runs in four innings isn’t “doing well for one’s self.”
Nobody in baseball makes that play as well as Beltre.
Why do I get the feeling that looking at Gameday won’t do that play justice?
When I said I was expecting Meche to “fall into the abyss,†what I meant was that I’m surprised he’s still hanging on and sometimes pitching decently, given that he’s had significant arm problems.
In Meche’s case, he’s sort of done the opposite. Meche was IN the abyss and has clawed his way out of it a bit. I’m seriously behind Jeff @ Lookout Landing’s observations of Meche’s modification to his delivery. He’s become “servicable”, but I don’t think we can expect anything more from him. He could also very easily fall right back into the abyss.
Why do I get the feeling that looking at Gameday won’t do that play justice?
Because Dave got loud when he called that play, that’s why.
Nick Green’s Gameday picture looks like something straight out of a horror movie.
Heh. 92mph fastball from Joel?
Yeah, the stadium gun has been upped a bit, and it aint so the Yankees can show off Pineiro. They don’t want the fans to know just how bad Ponson really is.
I’m with you on Meche, TIF, and that’s why I agree with the USSM guys that the M’s should trade Meche (while his value is as high as it’s going to get) ASAP. The alternative is that they repeat the Guardado mistake.
Looking at Stinnett’s picture–the yanks are fielding about a half a ton worth of battery today.
Re 133:
No, I agree with Dave on Meche. If the Mariners are in contention by the deadline, there’s no reason to give up Meche because he would help us just as much as anybody else at getting us to the post season. If we’re not even close by July 31st, we should trade him.
The fact that Betancourt even got to that should basically tell those UZR ratings what to do with themselves.
135 – I would agree with Dave on that if I thought Meche’s trade value is as low as he thinks it is. I tend to think it is pretty good right about now, that we could get something worthwhile back for him.
Dave did give that caveat, though. If someone came in with a “blow-you-away” offer, that’s a different story.
That’s two in a row “phew” innings.
Re Jones: He has looked awful in the field to me. There have been balls that fell in for hits that Reed would have caught with semi-ease. We have a problem in center field.
134–That doesn’t even include all the batteries thrown onto the field.
Wait…is this true? The M’s have one hit against a guy whose average against this year is nearly .300? Yet they are in the lead. Nothing makes sense any more.
A really bad play by Jeter.
Jones really isn’t setting the world on fire, is he? 0-11 now.
Much like Choo, we’re making the typical “hey, he is hitting in Tacoma, he’ll hit here” approach and then we’ll send him back down once we’ve completely crushed his confidence so much that he may never recover.
Two now. Betancourt got a single.
Ponson walked Ichiro and Lopez. People getting on base via a walk or a hit, same shit when someone hits a homerun and gets them in.
Jones really isn’t setting the world on fire, is he? 0-11 now.
Jones is 21 years old and adjusting to major league pitching. Patience please.
Course, I remember a few stints where Lopez was doing the same thing; he shows up this year a bottle rocket.
I guess you never know.
141. And here is our best hitter against him, needing only to get a ground ball for an RBI.
Also, Choo may have choked up here offensively and defensively, and was called up to skip the AAA all star game only to get his butt sent back down, but he has hit just fine since going back to the minors.
Choo’s confidence was hardly crushed. Though I’m sure he’s damn confused by a lot of the Mariners moves this year. Hell, we all are.
A flare!
A dunker!
A fister!
A parachuter!
A ploop!
A duck snort!
etc… I’ll take it.
You may recall they did that to Lopez, too, and that didn’t work out so badly — for him or the team. Other than starting his service time clock, I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing.
Way to manufacture a run, Yuni.
I really don’t think being buyers at the deadline would make much sense. This is a .500 team at best, and a couple more players wouldn’t make that much difference. Yes, they theoretically could win the division, but that’s a reflection of how bad the division is. I mostly disagreed with Gillick’s “don’t-want-to-trade-away-the-future” mantra, but that was because the 2000-2003 teams were genuine contenders, and Gillick’s caution might have cost them a Series appearance. This year, if they won, they’d be the equivalent of last year’s Padres, and I don’t think a forgone quick 1st-round exit is worth giving up prospects for, or even forgoing potentially advantageous trades for prospects. C’mon guys, do any of you really think this team could swim with the Tigers-White Sox-Red Sox sharks in the playoffs? I didn’t think so
And didn’t a certain center fielder for the Giants go O-21 or something when he first came up? And Wilie Mays ended up with an ok career…
146: I think most of the authors at USSM did know about Lopez, which was why they kept calling for his presence in the lineup even when casual fans were screaming that he was awful. Much like is happening with Jones now. The difference being that Jones is even younger, so we shouldn’t expect much at all out of him this year.
Dave’s assertion isn’t that we should be buyers either. He thinks we she look within for answers to our short comings at DH, bullpen, and whatnot. We already did one of those with Mark Lowe, now if only we’d ditch Everett and call up Doyle we would be on the right track to at least constructing our roster for potential more then obvious crap.
152. And I think Jackie Robinson had a similar start. Of course, both of them could field.
Jones will probably be fine. I guess I’m still having a hard time with the entire move. I guess he’s building confidence, but hasn’t the entire “fostering growth” concept worked well in the past?
Does it always have to be “baptism by fire” for these guys? Why not develop a talent properly for once?
Joser
I refrain from repurposing a Lloyd Bentsen quote, with that Mays response.
Does it always have to be “baptism by fire†for these guys?
Desparation is the step-mother of invention.
As I recall, last year the casual fan thought Morse was a .300+ hitter based on his first 20 AB’s when he came up.
Quite the inning by Piñeiro. Nice to know he’s still capable of doing some good things.
Nice, short inning for Joel.
I have faith that Bavasi is trying to get something of value for Everett.
Bavasi: I will trade Carl Everett for Alex Rodriguez.
Cashman: Are you crazy?
Bavasi: I mean for an autographed picture of Alex Rodriguez.
Cashman: No way. Those things are valuable.
Every once in a while.
In Boston, the Red Sox game just became official, marking a club record 991 games for Jason Varitek as catcher. Some bozo on SoSH wondered what it’d take to get Jeff Clement from the M’s, since they have Johjima.
Well, Bavasi has a “philosophy” of challenging players by moving them to the next level as soon as they’ve shown they can handle their current level. My problem with that is that you’re not managing bundles of statistics, you’re managing people — and quite young people, at that — and they don’t all respond in the same way. I don’t have a problem with the philosophy in general, but you can’t use it as a one-size-fits-all excuse for ignoring the peculiarities of the individuals.
156: True. I think most of us thought it was too soon to call him up, but I’m not sure we had many other viable options, unless Ichiro would have been willing to move to center. WFB in center full-timewould have hurt the team in all kinds of ways, and nobody in Tacoma but is really well-suited to playing CF at Safeco. Jones is expected to be there eventually, so this just moves the timetable up, probably by about a year. $#!+ happens.
Meh. I’m not as big on the whole starting the clock early on Jones as Dave is. I agree with the potential stunting of growth by bringing Jones up too early, but I also think we have to let a playa play.
Yeah, Jones is (probably*) no Mays. But as LB says, he’s also no Morse.
* Hardly anybody was or is. But he’s 20. We don’t know what he is yet.
I’m not especially concerned about him going 0-for-whatever to start his career (and that was my point with the Mays reference). I am concerned about the fly balls that went over his head because he wasn’t doing a good job of fielding his position. He clearly has the athletic ability to be a fine center fielder. But he’s not much more than a season away from being a shortstop, and it shows. His batting stats at Tacoma may indicate that, according to Bavasi’s philosophy, he’s ready to be challenged at the major league level. But his adventures in center field indicate he’s not yet ready to play there fulltime.
163, I would listen if the Sox called about Clement. Especially if that SoSH guy is in charge, since he apparently thinks Clement will automatically be as good as Varitek. Of course, I wouldn’t take another Heathcliffe Slocumb for him, and I don’t think Theo Epstein posts on SoSH.
It’s similar to the reason that I thought trading Ryan Anderson might make sense. Everyone saw a tall lefty in a Seattle uni and thought “Randy Johnson”, not “colossal failure”.
I think picking the slow grounder toward first base and taking it to the bag unassisted is becoming a signature play for Joel.
What’s becoming a signature play for Joel is not throwing a fastball and getting results.
Really? I think looking up and putting his hands on his hips is Joel’s sig.
167: I agree, but I’m still unclear what our other options are. We’re pretty certain Ichiro wouldn’t move, yes? So that leaves us with what for CF? WFB? Morse? Choo? Doyle? Ibanez to CF, C-Rex to LF? It gets more and more ridiculous as we go down the line. And I have nothing to back this up, but something tells me there ain’t many CF’s available for trade that make sense. So… Jones. He’s not ready yet, but his floor isn’t that far from the other options and his ceiling is much higher.
171, lol.
Another good inning. One more and we can close the book on Joel and do some Soriano > Putz action.
171: Am I the only one who found the FSN commercial with Eddie hilarious for that very reason?
Here’s the guy the M’s should get to pinch hit for Everett.
Through 6 innings Joel’s outs:
K: 5, GB: 13, FB: 0.
Of course, all of the balls hit into the outfield (or further) have gone for hits.
Everett is just really, really horrible.
174, outstanding. The one where he is turning around and staring up into the air? Oh yeah, we’ve made the same conclusion over here.
God Carl Everett sucks.
A few years ago, King County changed its namesake from Rufus King to Martin Luther King.
I don’t expect the City of Everett to follow.
175: Maybe that guy could knock some sense into Carl Everett by talking about his childhood when the dinosaurs roamed the earth (sorry, that was a terrible, terrible joke).
The bullpen needs a rest, so the longer they can keep running Joel out there the better.
Yeah, Yuni.
Carl Everett’s OPS for the season is now .666… which explains, perhaps, why he still has a job.
But it doesn’t explain why his parents didn’t sacrifice him on an alter when they first saw the birthmark on his skull.
Bullpen is fine. The only one who pitched yesterday was Mark Lowe.
If WFB sits on C-Rex’s shoulders, they have an OPS over 1.000!
There you go, Jones!
yay for AJ!
181, neither Soriano or Putz pitched yesterday, and the whole team has a day off Thursday. I’m not sure we can get them enough rest to ensure Hargrove will stop being a moron, so I say bring ‘em on in.
ADAM JONES!
There ya go buddy!
Yeah, that leaves 6 relievers that had yesterday off. A few of them ought to be able to pitch today.
Yeah, Adam!
Why the heck was Yubi heading for third with two outs? Luckily, he made it.
Yay Jonesy!
Why is Ponson getting a standing ovation? Are the Yankees fans retarded?
Somebody get that ball for the youngster to keep.
You know, I like have Yuni on base for Ichiro, but he really deserves to be hitting ahead of, say Everett.
Everett should be batting 9th, if for no other reason than he’s no more effective at the plate than your average NL pitcher. The M’s are essentially an NL team playing in the AL, with one easy out in every 9. Perhaps that’s why they did so well in interleague — it was all so familiar.
So Jones doesn’t just get his first major league hit, he manages to take out a knighted pitcher in the process…
Joe Torre: “He gave up a hit to Jones. Time to get him out of there.”
Oh no, a former Mariner on the mound! This inning’s over.
I think we could use another, what was that? a duck snort? by Ichiro.
“Why the heck was Yubi heading for third with two outs?”
Exhibit A: Damon’s arm.
191, because Johnny Damon plays CF for the Yankees.
Ovation from “The Greatest Fans IN the WORLD” for:
6 2/3 IP, 5 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 3 BB, 5 SO, 6 groundball outs, 8 flyball outs, 1 pickoff. 99 pitches, 59 strikes 40 balls. Two strikeouts given to him from a stupid umpire against Jojima. One freebie out given to him by a rookie Adam Jones.
Yeah… New York? Your fanbase is retarded.
Jamie Moyer has a higher OPS as a batter this season than our DH.
That’s right, bring in the lefty to face Ichiro.
Ouch, Ichiro. Ouch.
Yeah, but Jamie is a good hitter.
Ah Ron Five. About the only thing he can do right is get out lefties.
Eh, well, he still hits lefties better than righties.
They’re just addled by the heat. Riding the subway up to the Bronx in that heat and humidty they arrive with their brains cooked like softboiled eggs.
They’re finally back to singing “Take me out to the ballgame” in NY during the stretch?
Stop throwing fastballs, Joel.
Another.
Goddamn.
Fastball.
Joel, you’re not listening to me.
Time to take out Pineiro! Yank him now, not later, Grover.
Wow. Joel just said a naughty word when he saw Hargrove come out of the dugout.
Valle just said that Edgar ‘hit well over .400 vs. the Yankees.’ He actually hit .317.
OMG Joel was not happy.
Lots of us say naughty words when we see Hargrove.
Yeah, there ought to be a Kangaroo Court fine for stuff like that.
214. Edgar did kinda own Rivera, though. Don’t know what the stats are, but seems to me he owned him about as much as you can.
Joel = Good as gone
Joel has lost the right to ever complain this year when he’s taken out imho
Last time out, he also pitched this well up until this juncture and then blew up.
Sherrill is so money when used properly! Soooooo much better than Thornton was last year that its almost sad.
Edgar owned Rivera back when Rivera was a rookie. Then the small sample size took over and after that Edgar was 0 for whatever against Mariano just like everybody else. But because he tore him to pieces in the early going, his “overall” numbers looked good against him.
Ah small sample sizes. How I love thee.
And I think Valle meant Edgar in Yankee Stadium, not Edgar vs. Yankees.
218
He was 8 for his first 9 vs Mariano
Edgar should be in the Hall just for that
BTW, Sherril just owned Posada there. Not sure if Jorge is a worse hitter from the right side, but it worked.
Edgar hit .337 lifetime in Yankee Stadium.
Johnny Damon, Lefty… meet George Sherill, LOOGY.
Edgar hit .337 lifetime in Yankee Stadium.
I never said Valle was right. I said that’s what he meant.
Sherrill >> Villone
I don’t get it. Now Yankee fans are treating Alex like he’s Willis Reed. What’s wrong with the Yankee fan psyche?
In 68 REGULAR season at Yankee Stadium, Edgar’s stats read like this:
255ab 10hr 47rbi .337avg .439obp .545slg and most impressively for Edgar: THREE STEALS!
Fwiw his highest average in one stadium is at Old Municipal Stadium in Cleveland. He hit .405 in 84 ab’s. Probably even hit off of Satchel Paige there, lol
Wow, that A-Rod entrance from the dugout and the ensuing cheers was just like a WWE superstar cameo on RAW, lol.
Great! Another chance to see AFraud booed
…or another chance to see us screw ourselves over. But with Rafy, I doubt it
Aaaand there are the boos!
I feel like an idiot at the moment, but I thought Edgar got a game-winning hit off Rivera in late summer in Seattle between 99-04, but I can’t seem to find it on retrosheet. Hm.
i love it when payrod fails
Yankees fans are just smug they are in a position to have a player like ARod on the bench. And then get to boo him when he doesn’t produce.
Notice that neither Rizz nor Valle mentioned that Beltre was on that list of top 5 error-prone third basemen?
I like Good Adrian best.
Errors are hardly a good way of determining defensive strength.
RE: Rivera vs the M’s:
One year Buhner was the first right hander to hit a hr off of Mariano after he hadn’t allowed any the year before.
AMAZINGLY enough, I found a stadium Valle hit well in: Ol’ Memorial Stadium in Baltimore
5hr 15rbi .328avg .417obp .574slg
Maybe that’s the REAL reason they felt compelled to build a new ballpark
Is it immature to take delight in World’s Greatest Fans booing ARod ?
Probably, but knowing that doesn’t seem to diminish that delight much.
Beltre is trying to pull everything again, works sometimes.
They should impose a citizens arrest policy for managers, except they just get fired. Hargrove making Lopez bunt again.
One more useless bit of info on our fav announcer, Valle (said with all due sarcasm)
ONLY he could be this consistently BAD at the dish:
.237 lifetime avg at home .237 lifetime avg on the road
Beltre pulling inside pitches isn’t a bad thing. It’s him trying to pull outside pitches that sucks.
Typical Idiot Fan: Care to elaborate? I know errros are by no means a gold standard of defensive capabilities but I do believe they are good indicators.
Beltre gets errors on balls most 3rd basemen wouldn’t even get to. I don’t recall Beltre making any errors as bad as a couple of ARod’s last night.
Isn’t Villone about as dependable as Sele after the all star break?
ARod: The Postman (name of a bad Kevin Costner movie)… Airmail First Class…
My mlb.tv feed crashed. Anyone else?
Also: memo to Grover: if Jose successfully bunted, you’re giving up an out in favor of a guy who hasn’t hit lefties all year.
I don’t get it. Now Yankee fans are treating Alex like he’s Willis Reed. What’s wrong with the Yankee fan psyche?
A-Rod was supposed to return them to the promised land of World Championships. A five year drought is beyond their threshold of tolerance.
IBB Sexson to get to Everett. Now, why would anyone do that?
Better question: if you’re a “by the book” hidebound manager, why would you “protect” Sexson in the lineup with Carl?
Everett BETTER NOT be hitting vs the lefty
Granted, he isn’t worth a hill of bean against a righty either
Someone please tell me Eddie Perez is going to hit for Everett with Villone out there?
Please?
The errors thing is not condusive to overall defensive strength. Then again, there IS no stat that conclusively, undeniably shows good or bad defensive skills.
Hargrove, will you do it? Let Everett hit? It could be coming!
Perez! A miracle! Perpare for clubhouse fireworks.
Perez?!?
OMFG!!!
Too bad he’ll face a RHP.
PEREZ!?
Wait, what’s this? A glimmer of intelligence beneath Hargrove’s hat?
i can’t believe it! he’s pulling everett!
I’d rather have Perez against a RHP than Carl against a LHP.
I’d rather have Perez out there facing anybody than Carl.
I think Joe Torre still has nightmares about Edgar.
JI
Nothing is too bad about Everett sittin’ back on the bench
If anything this makes Hargrove look worse, because no we do know for sure the man does think, and does understand the game. If he leaves Everett in there, we could chalk his incompetence up to brain injury, alzheimers, or perhaps even being in a coma, but now we know he’s just awful.
Better question: if you’re a “by the book†hidebound manager, why would you “protect†Sexson in the lineup with Carl?
It makes sense if you believe in a mythical ability to hit in the middle of a major-league lineup.
Someone should replay this gamefilm to Grover when he takes Everett out, putting in a better hitter and say, “FIVE OR SIX MORE WINS had you used your brain earlier this year like that”
Kris Wilson sucks.
Everett is so unbelievably terrible I cannot fathom how he still has a job, let alone hits 6th. At least he hasn’t corkscrewed himself into the ground tonight.
I really, really, really wish that had worked.
This was obviously a situation to pinch hit again, this time with a lefty. Why is Greg Dobbs the only lefty on the Mariner bench? That’s really a joke. The M’s must have the weakest left-handed hitting bench in the Majors.
Rizzs can’t pronounce “reggae.”
Wonder if he was given a lecture on the fact that Everett can’t hit the ball, especially against lefties.
Didn’t we used to have some lefty on the bench? Roberto something? Maybe I’m making that up.
I was sort of hoping Carl would lose another bat into the stands and the Yankee fans would begin to think it was intentional and, well, “take care” of our problem for us, if you know what I’m saying, in a cadillac-trunk / east river / beneath the field at Meadowlands sort of way.
Derek Jeter sucks.
When was the last time Perez swung a bat in earnest?
that was nasty
273: That’s what I don’t get. Now that Perez is on the team, Petagine finally would have a useful purpose. And they drop him to call up Greg Dobbs?
Jason Giambi sucks.
Giambi had NO chance…I luv it
A-Rod was supposed to return them to the promised land of World Championships. A five year drought is beyond their threshold of tolerance.
True story: back in the Reggie Jackson era, my (sports oblivious) mother honestly asked me if the teams in the World Series each year were “the best team vs the Yankees”?
Flyball pitcher. After two K’s, I can live with 1 flyball.
#278: Now that Perez is on the team, Petagine finally would have a useful purpose. And they drop him to call up Greg Dobbs?
No, they did it to give Johjima paternity leave.
this is why the mariners can win this division. all they need is a lead after 6…at least, if they had a manager who could manage the bullpen (or a game in general).
People who have hardly ever seen Roberto play criticize his defense. But Dobbs personifies poor defense…at SEVERAL positions at that!
Chipper Jones just went deep. I believe that’s now a major league record 15 consecutive games with an extra basehit. Also the Braves have scored in each of the first 6 innings. Not sure how many times a team has scored in every inning. I’ve never seen it, but I’m sure it’s happened before.
283: Technically, but they could have made a lot of other moves to accomplish the same thing. Basically it was just giving up on Petagine as your lefty pinch-hitter when your only other option was Greg Dobbs (not including Snelling, of course).
I thought BBTN said last night that Chipper Jones’ consecutive-games-with-XBH streak was broken in his last AB last night…
I think Jojima just wants to go home. After his first two strikeouts he’s just swung at whatever.
286. I remember hearing NYY did that earlier this year.
Adam Jones, 2-4.
Let it ride, kid!
Please tell me we’ll finally get to see how fast Adam is with a lil’ SB
If he doesn’t get picked off first.
I take back the Mays-Jones comparison. He’s obviously the next Vlad Guerrero
Putz in.
Game over.
Did Grover give him the green light even once?
Does anyone think Ichiro is taking a different approach at the plate?
He seems to be taking more pitches and trying to drive the ball more. And it’s not working.
Okay, Soriano has to get through A-Rod, Jeter, Giambi, and Bernie, but JJ is the guy to laud with praises because he comes in looking to nail down the last three outs? Explain this to me. (Rhetorical request, no explanation necessary.)
Did Marquis just give up double digit earnies AGAIN for the Cards?
We could really use him though…to hit instead of Everett of course
296. He did the same thing last year, when he hit that clump of homers when we were like 73 games out of first and said he was just experimenting, hopefully he’s not doing that again.
Wait… what?
They think Bloomquist is a better defensive CF then Jones?
Does this appearance count as one of the two games Hargrove feels compelled to play Willie every week? I hope so.
In another month, we’ll be happy if Ichie is even paying attention
283. And there were so many less damaging ways to do that. This is Bavasi’s fault, not Hargrove.
It is, however, Hargrove’s fault that JJ hasn’t pitched in four days.
LB there’s really no way to keep track of saves if you base them on the batter the guy faces. It’s a made up stat in order to give credit to the relief pitchers. Holds are getting more and more press and now they’re even being kept track of on yahoo and some other places.
Bloomquist can only do one thing that helps the team and that’s run. And even he runs us out of innings far too often (refer to last night in case anyone’s forgotten that)
My bad. I guess Jones’ streak was indeed broken last night. He was 3 for 5 with 3 singles. Guess I missed that game somehow.
Could Ichiro have taken any more time getting to that ball?
300. On that point, I have to agree. Someday, Jones will learn the position and be way better. But not now.
It’s raining; call the damn game.
Safety first and all that.
Willie Bloomquist: Centerfield Defensive Replacement
Now I’ve seen it all.
That splitter that struck out Cabrera was filthy.
Cabrera, meet splitfinger fastball.
K.
#311: Ought to be illegal.
Call the damn game!
Aaron Guiel? Seriously?
JJ owns Melky Cabrera.
What’s sad is that we could really use a guy like Aaron Guiel.
Still 1 run to play with, no sweat.
If Johnny Damon doesn’t get closer to home plate than the on deck circle, that’d be really nice.
Guiel gets it done with guile.
Maybe the worst effort I’ve ever seen from Ichiro. Phillips was barely at third when he leisurely strolled over to get it
There must be something wrong with Ichiro’s arm.
Apparently Rizzs doesn’t want this game to be called. Maybe he has a bet on the Yankees???
man this is a beautiful baseball scene here in the Bronx.
GO MARINERS
Guiel had some sort of vision problems that were corrected last year
Not a bad fourth outfielder
#319: Ichiro did the right thing. Phillips’ run means nothing. You have to keep the tying run out of scoring position and keep the DP in order.
Call the damn game! It’s raining!
What’s sad is that we could really use a guy like Aaron Guiel.
We do? If Snelling can stay healthy for more than 1 game we have someone way better than Guiel.
Posada’s career v. Puts: 2-for-2, 2 HR
Not that that means anything.
319 Maybe Ichiro has a bet on the Yanks. I don’t care what you say about keeping the double play in order Ichiro could have moved a little faster to get to that.
#324: Call the damn game! It’s raining!
Watch Grover make the excuse that JJ blows the game due to being rusty.
on ichiro’s play–I think it was a smart move for this reason: it wasn’t the tying run, and he wanted to keep the tying run at first. Now, with that wild pitch, the runner is only at second with 1 out, not at third. Overall, I think a smart play. We don’t know that he would have nailed him, and in the ninth that run doesn’t mean anything.
Yeah, good thing we held him at first and didn’t try to get the out at home with Ichie’s cannon
Toughest five outs in baseball are the bottom of the 9th in Yankee Stadium.
WHAT THE FUCK?!
I guess he might have been on third if not for that, so maybe it wasn’t a bad idea. But dang I hate conceding runs
HORRIBLE call at first fwiw
That call was really, really fucking terrible.
330. I wasn’t as concerned with the throwing, but at least if he gives and effort he might slow the runner at third down. He just strolled over to it./
O
U
T
he was clearly out. Homer call.
Complete horseshit.
Was that the ref from the Super Bowl?
How big is that goddamned blown call
that was the third out that Jones just caught. Crap, can we buy a break?
332
HAHAHAHA!!!
How big is that goddamned blown call
Per Jeff at LL:
Yankees will catch a huge break if this game has to be played tomorrow. Rivera is probably unavailable tonight after 3 innings the last 2 days and pitching in 3 of their last 4 games.
I didn’t realize that WordPress was in on the rain delay.
Well that was a fun game.
After the superbowl. After the Sonics being sold and moved. And after this BS game…I think I’m going to take a little break from sports until the Seahawks season starts.
No excuse for that call.
And re: Ichiro
LB has it right. He had no business trying to throw home there. He needed to keep that runner at first.
Additionally, we have no idea what the field conditions are in right field right now, so I wouldn’t second guess someone not running and cutting full speed.
Scratch that. I wouldn’t second guess ICHIRO.
I think of all people to assume HE was lazy or lacked effort is a really, really bad assumption. I think he has proven to be the exact opposite of that.
Be like saying Edgar didn’t care or work at his game much.
To be clear, I didn’t mean to slight USSM in 346; just trying to make light of the coincidental events.
Ichiro made the right play. The runner would probably not have even tried for home if Ichiro had played it normally, as if it was a run that mattered. Only the potential tying run counts.
Difference: 29.3%
Except in this case, it’s Difference: 100%.
Run expectancy, man on first, two outs, guy who used to be on third crossing home plate on sacrify fly: 1+ runs.
Run expectancy, three outs: 0 runs.
Is it just that kind of year, or have we really been jobbed more than usual? I mean, it’s not like we have the firepower to beat the other team and the umps or anything.
ok, so I innocently went off to the bus, at 4-2 heading into the 9th, and it is what? 4-4 and a rain delay? did they even finish the ninth? would they play the last out tomorrow before the afternoon game? and am I to understand that it was a questionable 4-4 tie?
I’m glad Putz got a 3 day weekend and was well-rested for tonight’s game.
Two things to say here: 1. Rick Rizzs blew it by jinxing the M’s again. 2. Howard Schultz is an idiot.
msb- i think it is an understatement to say it was a questionable tie. Between the umps continuing play in pouring rain for multiple batters and well, you will see the replay of the blown call.
BS for all!
#351: ok, so I innocently went off to the bus, at 4-2 heading into the 9th, and it is what? 4-4 and a rain delay?
Now we know who to blame. Expect the proprietors here to cancel your USSM membership with no refund.
I understand (from Niehaus on the radio) that they will have to replay the game in its entirety tomorrow if they can’t get it in tonight. Which means they will work hard to get it in tonight… the umps don’t want to pull a double shift tomorrow!
Why did Bloomquist replace Jones for defense in the 9th?
or not…does anyone know the freaking rule here? I never did…
356, thanks for the info on replaying the game. The rules on that should be changed, IMHO. Aren’t there situations in which the game is suspended and resumed? This should be one, too. I’m sure that the umps and players unions would agree.
Rule 4.10
4.10
(a) A regulation game consists of nine innings, unless extended because of a tie score, or shortened (1) because the home team needs none of its half of the ninth inning or only a fraction of it, or (2) because the umpire calls the game. EXCEPTION: National Association leagues may adopt a rule providing that one or both games of a doubleheader shall be seven innings in length. In such games, any of these rules applying to the ninth inning shall apply to the seventh inning.
(b) If the score is tied after nine completed innings play shall continue until (1) the visiting team has scored more total runs than the home team at the end of a completed inning, or (2) the home team scores the winning run in an uncompleted inning.
(c) If a game is called, it is a regulation game:
(1) If five innings have been completed;
(2) If the home team has scored more runs in four or four and a fraction half-innings than the visiting team has scored in five completed half-innings;
(3) If the home team scores one or more runs in its half of the fifth inning to tie the score.
(d) If a regulation game is called with the score tied, it shall become a suspended game. See Rule 4.12.
(e) If a game is called before it has become a regulation game, the umpire shall declare it “No Game.â€Â
(f) Rain checks will not be honored for any regulation or suspended game which has progressed to or beyond a point of play described in 4.10(c)
I think the game ends as if the ninth never happened. M’s would win 4-2 I think.
#356: I am almost sure that Niehaus has it wrong. From the official rules…
(b) A suspended game shall be resumed and completed as follows:
(1) Immediately preceding the next scheduled single game between the two clubs on the same grounds; or
(2) Immediately preceding the next scheduled doubleheader between the two clubs on the same grounds, if no single game remains on the schedule; or
(3) If suspended on the last scheduled date between the two clubs in that city, transferred and played on the grounds of the opposing club, if possible; (i) Immediately preceding the next scheduled single game, or
(ii) Immediately preceding the next scheduled doubleheader, if no single game remains on the schedule.
(4) Any suspended game not completed prior to the last scheduled game between the two teams during the championship season shall become a called game. If such game becomes a called game and
(i) has progressed far enough to become a regulation game, and one team is ahead, the team that is ahead shall be declared the winner;
(ii) has progressed far enough to become a regulation game, and the score is tied, the game shall be declared a “tie game.†A tie game is to be replayed in its entirety, unless the league president determines that playing the rescheduled game is not necessary to affect the league championship; or (iii)has not progressed far enough to become a regulation game, the game shall be declared “No Game.†In such case, the game is to be replayed in its entirety, unless the league president determines that playing the rescheduled game is not necessary to affect the league championship.
(c) A suspended game shall be resumed at the exact point of suspension of the original game. The completion of a suspended game is a continuation of the original game. The lineup and batting order of both teams shall be exactly the same as the lineup and batting order at the moment of suspension, subject to the rules governing substitution. Any player may be replaced by a player who had not been in the game prior to the suspension. No player removed before the suspension may be returned to the lineup.
A player who was not with the club when the game was suspended may be used as a substitute, even if he has taken the place of a player no longer with the club who would not have been eligible because he had been removed from the lineup before the game was suspended.
They can complete this game tomorrow before the final regularly scheduled game at Yankee Stadium.
A little about how I feel.
so what is rule 4.12?
[Pineiro]
So if the game has to be replayed does that mean Jone’s 2 hits are erased?
#364: I quoted an excerpt. Feel free to click on the link provided if you’ve got a problem with insomnia.
Whoops, Jones’.
363, that is beautiful. Thanks for sharing!!
i guess the game would be replayed.
Couldn’t we have protested the game or something after “the call”?
[Pineiro]
#361, 370: No, it doesn’t work that way.
If the M’s had been behind and tied it in their half of the ninth (and rain prevented the game from being completed), their runs would be wiped off the board and NY would win, since NY would not get the same number of outs as the visitors. Home team tying it up is completely different.
Those fans who’ve spent their baseball lives following the M’s can be forgiven for not being intimately familiar with the rainout rules.
Never mind. Games can’t be protested because of calls on balls, strikes, out, safe, etc.
Never mind. Games can’t be protested because of calls on balls, strikes, out, safe, etc.
#372 (d): Hence my comments at #324 and #328.
Umm what exactly happened on the blown call? Gamecenter just doesn’t quite say it, and I can’t really see anything out of ordinary in the provided picture.
#377 – Sexson tightened his glove around the ball before the runner’s foot had even landed on first… the ump called him safe.
Unfortunately the provided picture was courtesy of Yahoo, and they took a snapshot a fraction of a second too late, so it looks like Posada’s safe. But if you look at Sexson, he’s already got the ball in his mitt and is preparing to move off the bag.
#377 – After that, a pop fly to center that would have ended the game with us winning — instead it tied it up.
#377: Ball in Sexson’s glove before runner got to first. Absolutely no doubt if you had seen the prior frames of video. Watch Sortscenter tonight and see MLB umps bend over for the home team in The House That Ruth Built.
That picture is actually an instant too late. Lopez made a great defense stop, but because the grass was soaked he slipped a little getting up. He then threw to Sexson who had the ball in his glove, with his foot on the bag, before Posada stepped on first. They called him safe.
Damon, the next batter flew out to CF, but because there was only 1 out when he hit it, the runner on third was allowed to tag to tie it.
This pic is a little better:
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9205/pict1427ot5.jpg
#373: No, it doesn’t work that way.
If the M’s had come back to tie the game or take the lead in their half of the ninth (and rain prevented the game from being completed), the game would have been suspended, and the game would have been resumed from the point where the game was stopped. This was not the case before 1979, but it was changed after Earl Weaver did whatever he could to delay this game, in which the Yankees had taken a 5-3 lead in the top of the 7th.
Link for #383 is here:
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B08130BAL1978.htm
Wait, I’m not following. This is a regulation game, and Rule 4.10(d) says: If a regulation game is called with the score tied, it shall become a suspended game. See Rule 4.12.
And 4.12 (SUSPENDED GAMES) says:
A game shall become a suspended game that must be completed at a future date if the game is terminated for any of the following reasons:
(5) Weather, if a regulation game is called while an inning is in progress and before the inning is completed, and the visiting team has scored one or more runs to take the lead, and the home team has not retaken the lead; or
(6) It is a regulation game that is called with the score tied.
So it’s a regulation game, called with the score tied, per 4.10(c) and 4.12(a)(6), and thus a Suspended Game. So they should resume play in the 9th inning before the day game tomorrow. What am I missing?
(God knows who would pitch that for the M’s…)
well, as someone mentioned before, I have no real idea if it is so, or if it just because of the season thus far — but it sure feels like a lot of calls have not gone the Ms way this year…
Thanks all,
Is there a way to blame that call on Hargrove or Everett? I am trying to.
You’d think the Human Rain Delay could have put his powers to use to help use here.
I wish he just punched Mike Reilly in the nards after he got tossed. That would make this a little better…
I hate the first base umpire. Here are the grievances I am filing against him:
1. That call at first was bad.
2. The game should be over because the third out would have been made.
3. A rain delay was called, a few minutes too late, and I am forced to wait for the end of the game, which should have already happened (see Grievance 2).
4. In Portland, the KSTW games are on FSN (for basic cable). I am forced to watch The Best [Worst] Damn Sports Show, Period while I wait for the rain delay to end.
5. I am a Seahawks fan, and deserve at least a one year break from bad calls against any of my favorite teams (‘Hawks, M’s, and Blazers).
6. As mentioned in Grievance 3, the rain delay should have been called earlier, leading to different results in the inning. 1B Umpire Mike Reilly is the Crew Chief and is responsible for calling rain delays.
7. According to this, he became interested in umpiring after taking an officiating class in college. I am busting my ass for a double major, and this clown is taking a sports officiating class in J.C.
That is all.
385
We’d be up Sh*t Creek with Rivera having an extra day’s rest. Lord knows if Putz would be available… my guess is Lowe, if we have to wait until tomorrow.
It was a bit unfair that Putz had to pitch during a torrential downpour complete with lightning strikes illuminating the stadium and garbage blowing around on the field (the only pitcher to have to do so, and while trying to get a save). He was having problems getting a good grip on the ball and keeping his foothold on the muddy mound — and even with all that — he still would have closed it out if the ump wouldn’t have blown that call. Arggg!
They just said on T.V. if it isn’t finished tonight it will be a called a “Tied Game” and a doubleheader will be played tomorrow.
If the game is declared a “tied game” are all of the statistics from this game erased?
#353 2. Howard Schultz is an idiot.
Howard Schultz is nowhere close to being an idiot. The ownership group paid something like $200M for the team in 2001; they’re now selling it for $350M. $150M is nothing to sneeze at; neither is a 75% return on your investment over 5 years. And now somebody else gets the headache of dealing with Seattle over the KeyArena, or dealing with OK City about their arena (in which case I wouldn’t be surprised by “Ladies and Genlemen give a warm welcome to your 2009 Seattle TrailBlazers!”).
Personally, I hope basketball leaves Seattle and never comes back. But then I’d be happy to say goodbye to the Seahawks and Mariners (yes, even the Mariners) also if we could get back all the public money spent on the stadiums. The ironic thing about this is that I probably attend KeyArena for more events than the other two combined (just never for basketball) so if I was going to support public money for any pro sports facilities it would be for the Sonics.
[Yeah, it's off-topic -- but we're in a frigging 9th inning rain delay! How many different ways can we discuss that bogus call at first?]
FYI, by “T.V.” I mean Rizz breaking in on KSTW to give a Rain Delay update.
#393 – That’s what I’m wondering. Jones had his first 2 hits. Would be a shame if they were erased.
Oh geez, like that REALLY favors us…not
Fwiw, Oakland just beat the O’s after Mora bounced back to the pitcher and was thrown out two steps out of the box w/ the tying run on third…sigh
#393, No, all the statistics from the game would count.
That’s why Hideki Matsui played 163 games in 2003.
Tie games count as stats since it is through the fifth inning an thus an official game
That’s why you’ll see some players who played on the same team throughout a season and still manage to get in 163 games.
abdef beat me to it!
#393. Yes, I believe so. You only play 162 games in the regular season, so if the M’s play an entire two-game double-header tomorrow, the stats from today’s game can’t count.
Which sucks for Sexson and Pineiro and especially Jones (who now doesn’t yet have his first major-league hit, let alone two), but is good for Perez. And Carl, I guess. And it really sucks for Green.
Not to be troublesome, but why did my post (372) get deleted, just because I spelled Pineiro’s name wrong? The same error was made in post 365, and that wasn’t deleted. Please be consistent if you are going to be picky about spelling (which seems very silly anyway, in this age of Net lingo…)
If you want to explain this or defend it offline you can email me at dhirning@comcast.net. Because I don’t get it, especially the inconsistent treatment. Thanks.
Wow, really? That’s kind of cool, actually. I did not know that.
Joe
You’d be HAPPY to see even our M’s be gone, just to get money back?
How much did you pay? Maybe we can all chip in on this board so you are grateful to have a team and a first rate stadium.
Gimme a break
My apologies, IdahoInvader.
398: That sucks because now JJ’s bogus blown save will count. I have a feeling that the umpires, who are fucking awesome, will try to avoid the whole “tied game” rule if they can.
A double-header?
Why???
Holy crap!
By my count, that’s at least one game without Johjima.
No apologies necessary!
At least you aren’t willing to give back our teams due to being like virtually EVERY OTHER pro sports franchises and having a stadium built for them
Joe… then do all the business around the stadiums give all their extra revenue back? And then the government turns around and gives back all the taxes they’ve collected as a result of the arenas?
Just how far ahead do you think they’d be if everybody tried to give everything back?
394: Boo hoo. There are plenty of deserving cities with fewer pro sports teams than Seattle, so you should be happy you have as many as you do.
Isn’t there a curfew for starting or resuming games after a certain point (something like midnight)???
Wasn’t most of the money collected from business type of taxes, like car rentals, hotel/motels, etc?
Moot point anway.
Real fans are glad the stadiums and teams are here and wouldn’t give them back for anything at this point. The M’s will put a winning team out eventually (we hope, lol) and I can’t wait for the Seahawks to get back and not get screwed in the Super Bowl
If there’s a doubleheader tomorrow, who would start for the M’s? I’d guess the Yankees would use Chacon (he of the 6.71 era and 31:30 bb/k ratio).
#410, there is no longer a curfew. It used to be that no inning could start after 1:00 am local time (in AL games only), but that rule was eliminated when they merged the leagues (1996 or so).
We’d start Mateo and pray for a ten run rule
Maybe they would call up someone for a spot start from Tacoma? Send Fruto down for the day?
It probably won’t be pretty whatever we do.
I say start Joel on a few hours rest. Maybe he could learn the knuckle ball in his hotel room tonight
Per KOMO, the game is set to resume at 8:58 pm PST.
ok, a promise they will resume has just come across… so it was, what, a 3-1 count on Alex?
yep, one out with Posada on first.
I say just bring out Mateo, and lose. I’m so over this game already.
and what are the odds the umps looked at the blown call while sitting around waiting… I’m betting word has trickled down to the Ms side of the clubhouse.
you know, there really is no way this does anything but benefit the home team.
#415, I pity the poor Tacoma pitcher who has to fly cross-country overnight with no rest and no warning to make that start.
Make that two outs. 3-1 on Rodriguez.
oops, thanks Dave. Two outs, indeed.
You all know what’s sad?
The ONLY thing going for us is that ARod is up
They should have some bonus giveaway code in the broadcast for fans who’ve stuck this one out. Even something stupid, like a free Chevy truck.
Oh geeez, Riley is the CREW CHIEF?
Great example there idiot
Mateo?
Why God? WHY!!!????!!!
God, I *knew* it would be Mateo. Thank god I’ve already had about a half-rack of beer tonight.
Yep, the gas can himself is comin’ in to subject us to another late game loss
I guess that dispells the rumor that Grover ISN’T managing from the showers
Forget the free Chevy truck. How about three free swings at Howie’s face?
Wow – Mateo is nails after midnight!
Remember guys
We “save” our best arms for “later”
A Rod continues his bid to ensure he’s never elected to office in the five boroughs, lol
Bonus baseball!!
Thank you, Mateo, for throwing strikes. That’s all I hoped for.
#429: Grover doesn’t want to use the other guys due to the double header tomorrow.
435
Knowing Grover’s double digit IQ, you are probably closer to the truth than you think
The umpire punched out A-Rod? Against Mateo??
Maybe it’s only the first-base umpire who’s blind.
Presenting Johnny Damon, first baseman.
Nah, what’s done is done. The edifices are there, so everybody (public and private) needs to maximize the income from them. I wish the deals hadn’t been done, and I’m quite happy to wave goodbye to any team that wants another handout (at the rate the Sonics are going  the last rebuild of KeyArena was just a decade ago  they’re going to want money for new luxury boxes every other year and KeyArena will be in a permanent state of expansion, like some kind of kudzu or cancer engulfing Seattle Center).
But I would be quite happy if Seattle became the first post-pro sports city in the US. Seattle has finally managed to get itself off that terrible “most livable city†list; this would seal the deal. Just imagine the improvement in traffic!
Heck, we’re not that far away from photorealistic renderings in video games: have all the players show up for spring training, motion capture them, and then just render the games on the internet over the season while they all sit back and collect their checks. It’ll be just as entertaining for the fans and just think: no blown calls!
But now we return you to the game, already very much in progress…
$10 says Willie the defensive replacement makes a huge error in the bottom of the 10th, and therefore we lose.
Mariners take the lead in New York.
Hargrove uses his bench.
Mateo bails out Putz in the 9th.
It’s Tuesday Night Bizarro Ball!
Hey! I forgot we have a new DH. That rules. I hope Perez wins the game for us.
I was so busy being sad about our new center fielder I forgot to be happy about our new DH.
I can’t believe Mateo came in and struck out ARod.
Please let Lowe come in for the rest and win this….(yeah, I know Hargrove wouldn’t bring Mateo in unless he expected him to go a couple of innings, or give up a game-winning homer, whichever comes first).
#440: And then Grover defends Willie.
Damon at first, Phillips at second; I was wondering how Torre would do the defense. Is Phillips experienced at second?
Wow, Bernie Williams catches a ball. Bizarro Tuesday it is!
Funny, I was just thinking that Bernie should have learned to play first base awhile ago, then he grabs a liner in RF.
Dang, Bernie almost blew that. Not to hear the announcers discuss it, of course. To them he did a great job getting to that ball hit almost five yards away from him.
#445, Phillips played some second in the minors, but never the majors.
Damon has never played first professionally.
Didn’t they float the idea of Bernie getting some time at 1B during the spring? I guess they gave up on that idea.
the boys at BBTN did a nice recap for me, showing the pouring rain, the blown call at 1st (several times), Hargrove exploding, the rain pouring, the ump wiping the rain from his eyes to toss Hargrove, the call getting to 3-1 and then the calling of the game. Even they weren’t impressed by the way the inning was handled.
(in an aside, from a thoroughly uneducated point of view, it seems like the financial structure in the NBA is so screwed, I don’t know how they are going to exist for many more years)
Is it illegal for our players to take a walk, late in a close game?!
Beltre swings at one nearly in the dirt instead of just taking ball four…sigh
That should show you EVERYTHING that his wrong with this team: Talented hitters with no brains.
BTW, when was the last time we scored in extras?
BBTN was on? What channel?
Ok, I’ll say it:
Riley actually got one right, lol!
On the finaces, part of the restaurant sales tax goes to Safeco funding. I believe it’s 0.5%; it was added onto the regular sales tax for meals.
Nice stab there by Beltre…even nicer to see the ump call a Yank out!
Jesus, Giambi’s head is HUGE.
Giambi K, Mateo!
I am optimistic. Don’t ask why, I just em.
Classic effin’ Mateo
Go 2-0 and just groooove it
What a tool
This is just the weirdest game. Damon at first; Mateo a strike-out machine (not a groundout machine, alas).
Hurrah for Mateo.
I have a new theory.
Mateo is a vampire. That’s why he is pitching so well after midnight.
Oh, nm.
Maybe Bernie rubbed his bat down with garlic.
OK, that was short-lived. I’m worried now.
We don’t have many options left, do we?
Fruto, Woods, Lowe… is that it?
[Pineiro]
Hmmm… Bonds’ head is huge… Giambi’s head is huge… what’s the common factor here?
436 and 441
Except Grover was ejected. I don’t think the rules allow him to inject his irrifutable logic, his baseball wisdom via cell phone.
Giambi’s head is Mencheriffic!
Here comes the Proctor. Does that mean lights out?
#453– it was the BBTN desk, doing a look-in during SC. I assume they’ll be on later.
467 – loki, I would be shocked if Hargrove wasn’t still making the calls. At least bringing Mateo out after the delay, for sure.
467
He probably snuck into the bullpen and is using that phone.
466 – Explain Vince Vaughn to me then.
Don’t hit Perez! He was gonna hit it out, damn you!
#468– ah, but the MenchMan’s melon is naturally natural.
Apparently pitcher was pissed that C-Rex wasn’t up.
Good AB for Perez against a righty.
The stadium announcer is screwing up Joh’s name “joh-JEEM-ah”…
#470, thanks.
#478: Seems like they always do that in NY for visiting teams.
Posada dinged?
Not only are they out of catchers, they’re out of position players.
Well, Posada isn’t starting behind the plate tomorrow. And if he can’t catch tonight… Johnny Damon, your new catcher!
They definitely should run on him…
Oh man.
Poor Yubet. Even hitting near .300 doesn’t exempt him from the team policy of swinging at crap with two strikes…sigh
This question is like 3 hours too late, but I was going to ask if Hargrove thinks that Ibanez is a better fielder than Jones (since Bloomquist came in for Jones and not Ibanez).
I wonder if Posada will be able to hit?
As far as stealing goes, I wonder how Damon would be at executing a run-down?
#486: Let’s hope we get a chance to see since Mateo is pitching.
… To late. That blows!
Suuuure
Lets keep the ticking time bomb in
Lefties hit .380 off of Julio
Ooops…never mind…point taken
Damn, I smelled that a mile away.
Ballgame
This is getting really old.
Man, you just KNEW Mateo wasn’t going to be able to wiggle out of another inning.
Done in by Melky Cabrera . . . . . god . . . . . .
It’s deja vu all over again…
Damn.
At the rate they’re going this is going to make the whole “buyers or sellers?” question pretty easy….
For the record, Michael Kay called Melky’s home run on the Yankee broadcast by saying “…And a child shall lead them.”
You think Mateo would give up the game in extra innings? Seriously, you all are too negative. When’s the last time that happened?
I hate baseball. At least we have basketball coming up, and the Sonics to look forward to. Oh, wait…
Feh.
that’s three extra-inning losses in four games. How fun is this road trip?
FUCK.
btw, nice call Joser (443). Although some people would say that was the odds-on bet
and three extra inning losses that really should have been wins….
Next person that says ‘game over’ when Putz takes the mound gets pounded.
We now know what the ’85 Cardinals felt like in game 6.
And for the record, the Yankee announcers also more or less said that Pineiro’s struggles are due to steroid withdrawals.
Oh, and this just in “thunder and lightning, torrential rains in NYC but play goes on at The Stadium until Yankees no longer have fewer runs than opposition…”
and, hey!!!! Mike Reilly will be behind home plate tomorrow!!!!
from the AP:
“As thunder crackled and a heavy rain began to fall, pinch-runner Bubba Crosby advanced to second on Putz’s wild pitch.
Then the Yankees got a huge break. Second baseman Jose Lopez made a sliding grab of Jorge Posada’s grounder on the slick outfield grass, found a firm grip and threw a strike to first. But umpire Mike Reilly called the slow-footed Posada safe – replays clearly showed he was out – leaving runners at the corners.
The Mariners screamed in protest, and a white towel came sailing out of Seattle’s dugout. Manager Mike Hargrove charged out to argue and was quickly ejected by Reilly.”
#506– And for the record, the Yankee announcers also more or less said that Pineiro’s struggles are due to steroid withdrawals.
boy, that’s one long withdrawal….
For the record, Michael Kay called Melky’s home run on the Yankee broadcast by saying “…And a child shall lead them.â€Â
Does this mean that umpire Mike Reilly is a kid at heart?
Michael Kay is a worthless sack of used food. See ya!
Drayer just wondered why with Damon at 1st, Phillips at 2nd & Alex with a bad toe at 3rd — no bunting?
the pool reporter was just in with Reilly; what are the odds he actually would admit that he blew that enitre inning?
Drayer also said she was in the elevator with a Yankee broadcaster heading to the field for what they thought was the end of the 9th, and the Yankee broadcaster said it embarrassing (even as a Yankee) the disadvantage the Mariners were under with the rain in their half of the inning.
Tough break for Putz having to throw in the rain like that. Looked like he had no command and was more or less just throwing spitballs and trying to get the ball anywhere near the plate.
Sorry if this has already been covered, but with a strong outing by Pineiro at Yankee Stadium, does this make a trade more likely? Would Chacon be an improvement? I know he isn’t generally liked here but it seems that he would be able to put up some solid numbers in a park like Safeco.
Fwiw, I was JJ from Nampa, ID and actually got to talk to Shannon. I basically just criticized how poorly Grover uses his bench as to why were always coming up short in these type of games.
Chacon has some stuff to work with. Fastball that moves, decent curve. If he can locate the fastball, he’s a solid mid-rotation guy. When the command goes though…well, see this season. Not a bad guy to take a flyer on.
In a final YES-related note, Sidney Ponson was the Player of the Game. No, seriously. Honest. I’m not making that up.
and Huytler (not the sharpest knife in the drawer) turned it into a question about usage just the last two days, and confused the issue ehough that by the time it got to Shannon it was a discussion of the quality, not the use…. Drayer did say that Mateo was the real problem at the moment, because of his inconsistancy, and the fact that he will not ever say if he is tired, or worse hurt, and she is reminded of the way he was pitching before they found out his shoulder was a problem earlier…
Thanks MSB
Very perceptive on your part. That was how I would summarize their “answer” too
I’m glad at least you were getting what I was TRYING to tell them.
#514: YES is a worthless sack of ….
Damn right I’m bitter.
#514– In a final YES-related note, Sidney Ponson was the Player of the Game. No, seriously. Honest. I’m not making that up.
it must have been those slimming Yankee pinstripes.
Drayer did say that Mateo was the real problem at the moment, because of his inconsistancy, and the fact that he will not ever say if he is tired, or worse hurt, and she is reminded of the way he was pitching before they found out his shoulder was a problem earlier…
Julio knows his job kinda hangs by his thread, as a generic bullpen guy.
Unfortunately, sucking while pitching injured means losing his job too.
and when you have been told, and told again, that you are to TELL them when you are hurt…
I don’t even care that Julio gave up the game winning HR after the rain delay. I just don’t. The 9th inning was the ballgame. Everything afterward is unimportant.
MSB spends so much time listening to KJR, it has to generate a certain genius in teasing out (or imposing) the faintest glimmer of intelligence in these kinds of answers.
#373: Thanks for the update. I got my interpretation from an older fan quite a long time ago (but after the rule had changed, so he was wrong).
From the NY Times:
And, more amusingly:
Oh, and the writer called Ponson “solid” in his debut (there may be a place for Pineiro in the Bronx yet). “We’re looking forward to his next start,†Torre said after the game.
Another poster at Lookout Landing fixed my magic card.
This looks much better.
“Drayer did say that Mateo was the real problem at the moment, because of his inconsistancy,”
I think his problem is more consistancy, myself.
I dream of him being inconsistent.
DRAYER also said that with DAMON and PHILLIPS playing new positions, and A-ROD having an injured toe; a bunt should have been tried. (If only there’d been someone on base, the light bulb may have gone on.)
BTW, was HASSEY managing or was HARGROVE managing from the tunnel?
BTBTW, playing in the rain favors the offensive team. (The pitcher’s bare hand is subject to the elements, whereas the batter can cover his bare hands with batting gloves.) In fairness, games shouldn’t be played in the rain.
Once again, Mike Hargrove gets outmanaged. I wish he were taking notes of what his counterpart in the New York dugout did tonight, but I’m sure he wasn’t.
In several games earlier this year (when Bloomquist was his only backup infielder and the club was carrying several pinch-hitters on the roster) Hargrove didn’t use pinch-hitters in the ninth inning because he said he basically said he wouldn’t know who to play in the infield if he pinch-hit for Bloomquist (after previously pinch-hitting for Betancourt) or wouldn’t pinch-hit for Betancourt if Bloomquist had already been used.
And several times I screamed at my TV that Hargrove should try and tie or win the fucking game and then worry about what to do about who plays the field if and when they tied the score or went ahead.
Which is exactly what Joe Torre did tonight. He pulled out the stops in the ninth inning and tied the score. And he ended up with two players playing out of position, playing their positions for the first time in their Major League careers — for the 10th and the 11th innings. And, woah, the Yankees somehow still managed to win! No, they hadn’t played those positions, but they’re baseball players – they could play the positions if they had to. It’s not like asking a position player to pitch in a tie game or asking someone who’s never caught to get behind the plate.
Yet Hargrove doesn’t manage like that because he’d rather lose the old fashioned way (in 9 innings) than tie the game and possibly lose the game later due to a mistake by one of the players playing out of position. This is most likely because he’d be blamed for the loss and the light would be shined on him. Joe Torre, of course, is secure in his position and has the respect of his players and if Damon or Phillips had cost the Yankees the game by playing out of position, the players would be smart enough to realize that they’d never have gotten to extra innings without Torre’s manuevering.
The more I watch Mike Hargrove manage the harder it is to believe that this guy once managed a team that was 3 outs away from a World Championship. I prefer to remember him as the clown whose team in Baltimore lost 32 of the last 36 games his final season there. He’s also the moron who filled out the lineup card wrong with Cleveland the late 90′s and his pitcher had to bat in a non-interleague game…
Irony, thy name is Carl Everett:
.229 / .299 / .367.
Hint: Find the OPS.
Re. #529:
Carl Everett, with an OPS of .666, is Satan!
I want to take this opportunity to say that Mike Reilly, 1b umpire from last night, will be the HP umpire for this morning’s game. I imagine him blowing a big call and the Mariners erupting.
it’s been entertaining–
from the Daily News:
Without that intense thunderstorm – not to mention a break or two from the umpires – the Yankees probably would have been talking about how encouraged they were by starter Sidney Ponson’s strong debut in a
frustrating loss … The two decisions in question were [umpire Mike]
Reilly’s failure to call for a rain delay until after the game was already tied in the ninth (despite pitcher J.J. Putz clearly struggling to grip the ball) and, more notably, his safe call on Jorge Posada’s one-out grounder to second that preceded Damon’s game-tying sac fly.
and the NY Post:
Now the ump wears pinstriped boxers. Maybe all that carping by George
Steinbrenner to MLB offices about calls against the Yankees finally paid a dividend.
One night after surviving three errors by Alex Rodriguez, the Yankees last night took advantage of a missed call in the ninth inning by first-base ump Mike Reilly to stage an electric, come-from-behind 5-4
victory in 11 innings over the Mariners.
[Lopez'] throw to first clearly beat the heavy-legged Posada – but Reilly, the crew chief, called Posada safe.
I’m too discouraged to summon profanity.
I almost [CRIED] last night when that nobody hit that homerun!