On the possibility of a Hillenbrand pick-up
The Blue Jays tossed Shea Hillenbrand aside after he tussled with the front office (it’s a weird story). I’ve already seen suggestions the M’s should pick him up since he’s free.
There are a couple things Shea can help a team with. He’s a right-handed hitter who’s about average for average and OBP, and he’s got a little more power than an average hitter. For a corner infielder, though, that’s not particularly good. It is, obviously, better than we’re getting out of our corners. He’s historically hit left-handers a lot harder than right-handers.
If the M’s picked him up, you’d play him at DH against righties and spot him at 1B/3B.
There’s a big problem with that, though: if they were going to use someone to spot at the corners, they’d be using Dobbs, but they’re not, as they haven’t used Petagine or Perez either. Someone other than Sexson or Beltre has started a game at a corner five times this year.
And if they’re looking for someone to DH against righties, Dobbs could outhit Everett at this stage and, as we’ve suggested elsewhere, there are various other ways you can andjust the lineup so Everett sits. For the time being, it appears that Hargrove is set on using Everett until his toy’s taken away from him, and for whatever reason, the team hasn’t taken the toy yet.
So then you have to assume the M’s are willing to accept another clubhouse guy to make a matched pair with C-Rex, and if you thought Carl was trouble when he thought he was being screwed with before, well… look out, because now the team would have one player complaining every time a lineup card didn’t have their name in it. If that means Hargrove starts trying to weasel them both in, that’s no good.
Hillenbrand wouldn’t solve any problem the Mariners have, and might make them worse. If he got picked up, they’d likely be making more moves than just offering him a deal.
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There ya go again USSM, ruin our dreams of quick fixes… BLAST YOU!
If he was DFA’ed, that means they have 10 days to trade him or do something else, don’t they?
Or in other words, Perez ends up a bust for us because we could’ve had our lefty-masher (meaning, mashes lefties) without giving up A-Cab if we’d waited a bit. Hillenbrand solved a problem we had a month ago, but not one we have now.
Of course, waiting would’ve meant we didn’t have Perez’s bat in the lineup for the last three weeks. All 7 ABs worth…
Sigh.
The only reason I can think of that I would want them to pick him up is if it absolutely has to be him or “winning” the Soriano Idiot Sweepstakes.
And get Doyle the hell up here before you even consider trading Jones and Clement, wouldya, ya bunch of rocket scientists?
He’s off the roster now, it’s a matter of whether they release him or someone offers to give them a toaster in return.
I’d think Perez is a better option as an anti-LHP device. But if you’re looking for someone who can play some corner defense and hit well against lefties – and passably against right-handers too, yeah, Shea’s there for the taking.
It’ll be interesting to see who goes after him. The Yankees seem like an obvious choice, since Phillips isn’t cutting it for them right now.
I agree DMZ, no use for him in the lineup at all, other than to further complicate matters.
I have this demented vision that the M’s get Hillenbrand for Carl Everett.
You can’t use that name! How many times do I have to freaking tell you!
Qua?
Oh. Never mind.
Apparently, N being the number of times you had to tell them, at least N+1.
Why do always say that Dobbs bats right-handed DMZ? He hits left-handed!
Does Hillenbrand have any history as a prima donna? This is just such a weird story. My knee-jerk reaction is to think that something like this doesn’t happen under a really good manager.
First off I don’t understand where you get that Hillenbrand historically hits lefties “a lot harder” than righties, his career slugging percentage against lefties being .466 and against righties .446…
Hillenbrand is worth it when combined with the jettison of Everett. True it would cause problems if we had Everett/Hillenbrand/Perez, but the whole point is that Hillenbrand replaces Everett. He’s much more effective and Perez would still make a great bench lefty masher.
Also, is a career .290 really league average for BA? If so, then everyone is really underachieving this year, there’s only one team in baseball with a BA over that number…
Why do always say that Dobbs bats right-handed DMZ? He hits left-handed!
It’s not always. It’s a lot of the time. You’re right, though, that paragraph doesn’t read well at all. I’ll fix it.
First off I don’t understand where you get that Hillenbrand historically hits lefties “a lot harder†than righties, his career slugging percentage against lefties being .466 and against righties .446…
Last three full years (03-05)
vs. LHP: .315 .353 .516 .869
vs. RHP: .285 .329 .438 .767
Hillenbrand’s Safeco numbers have him at .313/.340/.542 in 48 AB, which isn’t too shabby for a righty, but… there’s no reason Hillenbrand should come here, especially if his complaint was not enough playing time in Toronto. All things considered, the Yankees DO seem like the best place for him.
Does Hillenbrand have any history as a prima donna?
Yes. He was an obvious trading chip with the Red Sox in 2003. On the radio in Boston, speaking about Theo Epstein, he said, “Trade me now, f-gg-t,†then much later backpedaled, saying he hadn’t meant to use that particular word to refer to Theo, but the host of the radio program.
He compared himself to Jeff Bagwell, who was part of the Worst Trade Ever for the Red Sox back in the 1980’s (Bagwell for Larry Andersen). Suffice it to say he’s got a ways to go to match Bagwell’s career.
When he got traded to Arizona, he talked about how great it was to out of Boston and to be in the company of such great professional hitters (as opposed to scrubs like his friend Manny Ramirez, I guess).
Lord knows the Yankees don’t have enough 1B/DH types who play inferior defense on their roster…
The Yankees need the clubhouse spark that Carl Everett would provide. Plus he’s clutch. A-rod? Not clutch.
Cashman, are you listening?
it appears that Hargrove is set on using Everett until his toy’s taken away from him
I don’t know about that. Grover has demonstrated that he won’t sit Everett in favour of a guy without a solid major-league track record. Neither Dobbs nor Petagine has one, but Perez does get starts. Hillenbrand sounds like Grover’s kind of guy.
That said, he’s not worth it if he’s only going to DH against lefties.
Furthermore, the Jays, while they might take whatever value they can get, would certainly prefer a trading partner who could give them pitching – even relievers. The Jays aren’t exactly in dire need of hitters, at this point.
Hargrove has demonstrated a minimal willingness to use Perez. He has, what, one start? I am hesistant to label the last two games as a trend. Before that he showed an unwillingness to use Perez even when the situation called for it.
I’m not sure I would diagnose his problem as a veteran issue. Maybe it is, but I don’t think I can say that’s the case with Everett.
I think getting Shea would be folly. How many resources are we going to throw at a problem we already have a solution for? It’s ridiculous.
If the M’s trade Jones/Clement+ for Soriano I’m going to lose my mind. If they trade anything for Shea, I’ll just shake my head and wait for some sign that they aren’t all idiots.
I’m 100% in favor of picking up Shea, if we are allowed our ultimate desire and get to see both C-Wrecks and Hargrove get really small as they go out the door and over the horizon, preferably toward the west, and the convenient and wide expanse of the Pacific Ocean.
Of course, anything (and I almost believe anything) that advance significantly this particular dream is worth doing, as of April 2006.
Hargrove is constitutionally incapable of sitting down his ‘regulars;’ he clearly believes that ‘regulars’ = team wins. That was more or less true in Cleveland, given the powerhouse offensive lineup they had, and shaky pitching staffs. It wasn’t really true in Baltimore, and isn’t true here, but Grover’s not an adaptable fellow as we see. He doesn’t manage situations; situations manage him. Bringing another guy here he won’t use is pointless, and the situation won’t change until: a) we have another manager, and b) we have a GM capable of filling the 25-man with useful types all the way to the last slot. So, meh. Now, if we could get a good RH 4th OFer with defensive positives without having to give up anything of lasting value, then fine—but that’s not Hillenbrand, so.
Oh, and I want NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with Alfonso Soriano.
If we do pick him up, someone should alert that FO guy–the one who didn’t offer RJ his condolences that time–to be sure to ask SHEA how his newly adopted child is. We just can’t have another instance of “insensitivity” .
In view of his first name, Hillenbrand ought to go to the Mets.
Yeah, Hillenbrand would be dumb because we have Mr. Snelling waiting. All Hillenbrand brings to the the table that Snelling can’t is a glove, in my opinion. And Soriano? Top 10 player, but he won’t stick in Seattle. The guys I’m looking at are Carlos Lee- middle of the order guy, plays left, won’t have to give an arm and a leg and will be resignable- and Abreu, who they can stick in center and get some pop. Cory Patterson, who was mentioned in a previous post’s comments, I think can become a good player, but the M’s really need someone in the middle of that lineup. Because let’s face it- Beltre and Lopez aren’t that kind of hitters (do they really think Lopez can stay in that 3 spot?). It’s rediculous to think that they can rid themselves of the players formerly known as Beltre, Sexson and Everett, but at least don’t screw yourselves by allowing Everett to stick around another year. ugg.
Basically, the m’s are at a point where they need to decide which way they are going for the rest of the season, and I feel that their recent play has predetermined that fate. So don’t shoot yourself just to get some ink and ruffle some feathers, just play the course and do what’s best for the FRANCHISE, not for the guys in the front office right now.
Check out http://www.hardballtimes.com/ article on “Contending Holes.” Can you guess who Hole No. One is?
Can this be relayed to Bavasi somehow, to emphasize that the entire world of interested fans has determined from the evidence of eyes and stats that this #1 —hole be dumped NOW?
If the #1 —Hole and Hargrove are dumped before the end of July, I very much think we can take the division, even without picking up some lucky charm of a player. If not, we will finish in 4th, in a ridiculously weak division, and absolutely deserve to be there.
One MORE thing: I wonder whether Ichiro will be willing, even for the fans, to play another season under the current management. His cryptic comments implied a very deep disatisfaction for wasting his career in an organization so wedded to obvious errors.
If I’m the GM I’m asking Sexson what kind of team player Shea was in Arizona. I’m for grabing him 100%. This team as currently put together and managed is not going to the playoffs. Picking someone up for free who can have the DH roll full time and make it impossible for Hargrove not to sit Everett is a good idea. And its not like he complained because he wasn’t in the line up for one day. He was out of the line up two days in a row after being gone for 4 days. I’d be livid too if I was him.
Its a complete bone head move not to at least attempt to grab him. Worst case scenerio you drop him from the roster having paid minimally for his tallents.
That is a pretty good article and it is encouraging that Sexson seems to be suffering from bad luck rather than a decline in talent. Minor quible: It seems a bit early to form an opinion on Adam Jones based on 15 plate appearances.
And I can’t spell this morning.
Perhaps Hargrove simply has a non-sexual man crush on Everett.
#28 We are contending despite having 3 of the biggest holes in baseball… Great. Can we fire our management for stupidity now?
I think you can form an opinion on Jones. He has played the OF poorly like you would expect of a young guy shifted from the IF. Comments from Fairly that next year he’ll catch that means that he needs to be in Tacoma. Also, this Ichiro thing, Manager Oh told him to play CF, no argument. Just do it. Shea H. would not play under Grovers system as stated before, the corners do not sit. I am against any trades other than ridding the team of non performers. Do the CF thing with Ichiro for this year, dump C Rex, get Doyle up here in a corner OF/DH position. Shift Lopez back to the 2 hole and either bat Beltre 3rd or 8th. Oh, and decide on Meche now, sign him to an extension or let him go.
Keep in mind that ‘contending’ means both 5 back and 5 under .500 at this point — which basically means ‘contending while still sucking’ almost 2/3 of the way through the season.
How’s that for a moment of depression? 2/3 of the way. Ah, man.
Is there anyway we could get about 50,000 copies of that Hardball Times article and distribute them out at the next home game, starting with the GM’s suite?
This article didn’t say anything that hasn’t already been discussed over and over on this board; Willie aint nothing but a sub/pitch running base-stealer, C-Rex is done, and Jones is in over his head at this point.
If the M’s wanted to pick up Hillenbrand up during the offseason, that would of been a different story, but currently he really doesn’t have a place in this lineup…..but hey, if it meant the end of C-rex i’d be all for it.
Its an improvement that would get rid of Everett. If the cost is minimal then why wouldn’t the team make the attempt? Maybe he is a team cancer but so is Everett. Nobody cares as long as the guy hits the ball. And since its obvious right now that the team doesn’t want to bring up Doyle to replace Everett why not go for a guy who can be an everyday DH?
This is probably the first time I’ve ever not agreed with USSmariner.
Speaking of roster moves, Petagine cleared waivers and reports to Tacoma on Friday — was that unexpected and what, if anything, might it mean?
#38 He doesn’t have a good MLB track record so everyone ignored him. Whats sad is that more teams would have probably be interested in Everett if we released him.
Judging by the fact that the M’s are 12-6 when C-Rex gets no more than 1 plate appearance, I think that dumping one cancer for another is fine by me, especially when the new cancer is hitting .301 with 12 dingers.
We have to assume that it’s not a choice between Hillenbrand and Snelling, or Snelling would be up already. Hargrove is more comfortable with “made guys,” and he’s not going anywhere until the end of the season. Assuming the front office isn’t going to change between now and October, that’s the situation we’re dealing with.
I would also assume that adding Hillenbrand would mean dumping Everett, because you’re not going to voluntarily keep two guys who get very cranky when they don’t play in a situation where you know only one can start.
Given that, why not take a shot on Hillenbrand if the price is right? If the M’s are determined to add a bat, he’ll come cheaper than most. Because he’s an established veteran with a proven track record, Hargrove will probably be more inclined to let him play in the field, meaning Sexson and Beltre will get time at DH. You have the potential (again, depending on the price) to solve the problem for this year without costing much that the team is counting on for the future. Low risk, decent reward.
We have to assume that it’s not a choice between Hillenbrand and Snelling, or Snelling would be up already.
No we don’t, because that’s not true.
Just because Snelling isn’t up right now doesn’t mean he won’t be up soon.
I’m just hoping they were waiting until the end of the road trip to cut Carl, and that the ax is going to drop now that they have an off day at home.
Just because Everett sucks doesn’t mean Snelling will be up soon either. Can you gurantee that Snelling will be up soon? And can you define soon?
Guarantee?
Hillenbrand would probably be eaten alive by Safeco anyway. I can’t see what type of role he’d have, he’s slightly sub-par against righties, and he’s good against lefties– but Perez is better.
The only way it would possibly work out is if it were a Perez for HIllenbrand swap because he all know that Grover is not competent enough to find them BOTH at bats.
Getting Hillenbrand is just rearranging the deck chairs. Hargrove and/or Everett must go to make any real difference.
#42-
You can say that, but are there any indications that his promotion is imminent, or that Hargorve would play him every day if he was called up? Or is it just your hope that they will finally see the light?
It looks like the Mariners are losing patience with Everett, as they’ve already traded for another DH-type to take at-bats (not that Eduardo Perez has gotten many). But making that trade seems to indicate that the Mariners don’t seem to view Chris Snelling, right now, as an everyday fixture in the lineup for a team in the playoff race.
Seattle wasn’t happy with their production in outfield; they called up Choo, gave up on him in 30 seconds, and then called up Jones (who seems more likely to stay awhile). They weren’t happy with their production at DH … and they made a trade for Perez.
The front office is what it is, and Hargorve is who he is. He’s managing for his job, he’s not real patient with the young guys, and he likes his vets. This is the management Seattle has right now, and with this management, all signs seem to lead to the desire for an experienced bat in the DH slot. Given that fact, and given the problem of Everett getting way too many at-bats, why not solve the problem as cheaply as possible by getting a guy like Hillenbrand?
Soon our Lord and Savior will make his Triumphant Return to Safeco, where He shall hit a Holy Home Run.
Yea, repent for the call-up is near!
But, do you guarantee the call-up is near?
At this point in the season at 46-50 and in the rebuilding process, I really do not see a pickup of anyone on the far side of 30 providing a substantial boost to the team. If anything the front office should concentrate on eliminating spare parts that will not fill a role over the next couple of seasons (read Everett, Mateo, Pineiro, others).
As has been discussed previously, the bulk of the team is there to stay and seemingly minor roster changes probably will not make much of a difference. At this point, even swapping Wilson Delgado for Carl Everett wouldn’t affect the M’s place in the standings or their winning percentage over the course of the season. Guys like Hillenbrand, even if free, won’t really help the team become substantially different, for better or for worse.
it is a wierd story
On second thought…
“It had a lot to do with Hillenbrand writing: “This is a sinking ship” on the chalkboard where batting practice times are written.”
…is probably a bad omen for a team with a message board named after a boat.
quote of the day:
“That was the most ridiculous call I’ve ever seen. That’s a brutal call, terrible. It changed the whole scenario, all the momentum.”
Mike Hargrove still upset at Mike Reilly? Nope– Alex, on the time-out called by the 3rd base ump yesterday
And Hillenbrand isn’t likely to be free. Toronto might be happy just to get their roster spot back, so I don’t see them picking up a lot of salary.
The FO may still view Doyle as a rehab in progress. We don’t actually know what the trainers are telling Bavasi, do we? We also don’t know what might be percolating. Bavasi may be trying to swing something between now and the end of the month, with Everett-out/Doyle-up as the fallback option. Yeah, I’m feeling optimistic this morning, but it’s a sunny day and the M’s beat the Yankees yesterday, so sue me.
From that Hardball Times article (which is an excellent distillation of everything that has been discussed to death on USSM, and should be mandatory reading for any of the barstool “experts” who post on other blogs or call up to blather on the radio, not to mention the local media) I get the impression the Angels would be a good fit for Hillenbrand. Certainly a better fit than the M’s.
And a part of a team that relies that heavily on platoons and pseudo-platoons, Hillenbrand was a lunatic for insisting he play every day.
From that TOSun article linked by MSB (#52)
Can you imagine him and Everett sharing the DH spot in the lineup, one or the other of them on the bench every day? Designated Cancer would be more like it.
#57 Except he wasn’t being platooned and he was playing every day until he left for the adoption. Its not like he was complaining about not being played all year. They did this exactly because he left the team.
I want a player who wants to play every day as long as they can hit the ball. Ichiro hates it when he is forced to take a day off too.
Let me rephrase that. He played the majority of the games up until this event.
Hargrove was on a fluff interview show with Rizzs last night and told a story about how, when he was with Texas, Billy Martin didn’t pinch hit for him twice late in a game with a left-hander on the mound, when he expected to get hit for, and he responded with a game winning hit in extra innings. And it made him feel really good about being able to come through for the team. As a result, he said, he may tend to stick with a guy too long.
The strange thing about that story is that Hargrove has taken exactly the wrong lesson from it. Billy Martin managed the Rangers only in Hargrove’s first two years in the bigs. In 1974, Hargrove came up with Texas at the age of 24, after having played a total of only 30 games in the minors, all at class A. His rookie year, Martin made him the primary starting 1B, playing 131 games and he batted 323/395/424 (and being named rookie of the year).
Martin left the Rangers during Hargrove’s second season, so his pinch-hitting story had to happen when Hargrove was 24 or 25. It seems to me the moral of the story is that if you give talented young players a chance, they may come through. But the lesson Hargrove seems to have gotten from it is to stick with veterans too long.
Too bad Rizzs didn’t do enough homework for the interview to be able to ask Hargrove about that.
That Hardball Times article is brutal on the Mariners, in some cases deservedly so. Of the top ten holes in the AL, the Mariners have 4! With one honorable mention for Mr. Betancourt. And they never even got around to Adrian. (sigh)
Pinning Jones on that list is a little unfair, as even though he is young and not really ready, its not like he is the reason this team has stunk so far. Call out Jeremy Reed if you want, but there are plenty of call-ups doing the same thing right now as Jones.
And the Betancourt Honorable Mention seems like a stretch to me as well. Granted, the guy doesn’t walk a lot, but a speedy #9 hitting SS, batting .290 isn’t really a “hole” the way DH Carl Everett is. But Carl is on his own level, I suppose.
Putting Betancourt on that list was just wrong. He’s an above average major league shortstop.
And the Betancourt Honorable Mention seems like a stretch to me as well.
That was my first impression when I saw this list. Was it written by a disgruntled Mariners fan? If you factor in Betancourt’s defense, and especially his salary, I’d hardly call him a “hole.” And the writer also says that Bloomquist is “Long one of the worst players in baseball” which is a little unfair. It’s not his fault he plays too much.
Too bad Rizzs didn’t do enough homework for the interview to be able to ask Hargrove about that.
he was a last minute fill-in for Niehaus, who was caught in traffic. Not that Dave would have asked that question of Hargrove…
re: the Hardball Times, I think the author is 12.
“Picking someone up for free who can have the DH roll full time and make it impossible for Hargrove not to sit Everett is a good idea.”
Why assume that if we get Shea, Carl will sit? Hargrove has shown little willingness to do the right thing. WHy assume Shea will change that?
“And its not like he complained because he wasn’t in the line up for one day. He was out of the line up two days in a row after being gone for 4 days. I’d be livid too if I was him.”
Heh. Two whole days? Livid? Really? To the point where you would insult your teammates and your team?
“Its a complete bone head move not to at least attempt to grab him. Worst case scenerio you drop him from the roster having paid minimally for his tallents.”
We have no idea what he’d cost, and why bother when we already have solutions to this problem? Why do we keep getting mentioned with these same guys? It’s like management is a magnet for free agents that won’t help.
“Just because Everett sucks doesn’t mean Snelling will be up soon either. Can you gurantee that Snelling will be up soon? And can you define soon? ”
What the hell is that? Did you think you’re owed something here?
36 Safeco Hobo
Doing a people search leads one to a name that matches a certain GM with addresses in Seattle, and prior ones in Anaheim and Mission Viejo. One could spend the $30 and then mail out copies of the article.
Funny baseball stuff in the Onion today: “PNC Park Threatens To Leave Pittsburgh Unless Better Team Is Built;” “Brett Myers Atones For Punching Wife With Solid Seven-Inning Outing.” hilarious.
#66 First because Shea fits the vet DH that Hargrove wants. Also his BA makes him look bad to the casual fan if he doesn’t.
It wasn’t two whole days. It was two days after he had come back from a leave of absence. Thats just petty by the team.
You’re right we have no idea what he would cost. Thats why you call and see.
Do I think I’m owed something? Thats an ignorant comment. No I don’t. I think though that our wishful thinking that they’ll bring Snelling up doesn’t give us anything. If my choice is Everett, Shea, or Snelling then I’m all for Snelling. But if my choice is letting Everett’s option vest or going for a younger, better hitter I’m going for Shea.
Hillenbrand has only been starting of late against lefthanders. The two games he’s whining about were started by righthanders. Why was it petty not to start him in those games when that’s been his usage pattern right along?
Only if you assume that nothing else was going on. The manager said he liked the lineup he had.
I have to wonder about Hillenbrand, who complains about the atmosphere and says no wonder we’re not winning, while playing for a team that’s ten games over .500 that nobody reasonably expected to be playing better than this. It does seem as though the “atmosphere” is all about whether Shea Hillenbrand is in the lineup.
69 – You seem to be playing create-your-own-dichotomy. Those aren’t your only choices.
As to the other… asking someone to guarantee their statement is silly. Particularly when that someone may have their opinion influenced by information we don’t have access to.
If Dave says just because Doyle isn’t here, doesn’t mean he won’t be…. that’s obvioulsy a true statement.
For you to ask for a guarantee is ridiculous. Can you guarantee that Shea would be played? Of course not.
It’s nuance, baby. When someone gives you inside information, even if the extent of that inside information may only be that he hasn’t heard that Doyle WON’T be called up, you read between the lines and leave it be and wait until he is in a postion to know more or be able to say more. You don’t press him on it and you don’t ask for a guarantee, for god’s sake.
Uh, why is Betancourt getting an honorable mention as a major hole at SS?
Betancourt is coming out at 9.1 VORP. His EqA is .254- MLB shortstops as a whole have an EqA of .256.
The last game he played was against Meche. Who last I checked wasn’t a lefty.
And considering our team dropped a player just so Kenji could see his son I do find what they did petty.
And I don’t believe the manager’s quote one bit. Both games they replaced him with their Catchers who both have hit worse than him over the last month.
DMZ Since you don’t like possibilities of Hillenbrand or Soriano or probably not Todd Walker then who would you like to see the M’s pursue?
#72 My point was that the opposite of what he said was also true. Therefore his statement didn’t do anything to change the argument.
Can I confirm that Hargrove wouldn’t play Shea over Everett? Nope. But I can confirm it would make him look a lot worse if he didn’t.
And Dave’s statement wasn’t one that has any lines to be read between. He is 100% right that just because he hasn’t been called up yet doesn’t mean he won’t be. But its also true that just because he is a stud doesn’t mean he will be brought any time soon either.
By the way Dave doesn’t need to be defended. He does an awesome job, like all the authors here. However, even they don’t agree on everything.
“But its also true that just because he is a stud doesn’t mean he will be brought [up] any time soon either.” Before I get called out on this I should add that with his history of being injured every time he comes up to the majors the team might be much slower this time at acting on his abilities.
77 – Hargrove can’t look a lot worse. It was equally absurd to sit Perez against a lefty in favor of Carl. The absurdity threshold has already been crossed repeatedly.
And Dave’s statement was merely pointing out that your dichotomy was forced. So it did change the argument.
And I’m not defending Dave, there is nothing to defend. I’m pointing out that asking for a guarantee and “how soon” is ridiculous.
Actually he wasn’t talking to me. And it doesn’t look equally absurd because 95% of the population doesn’t know the difference. Anyway we are both highjacking this thread so I’m going to bow out of it now.
Hillenbrand was also dissatisfied with his position as the DH. He wants to play third or first. The guy clearly has issues. To publicly call out the team for being benched for 2 days–whether or not the benching was justified–is ridiculous.
On the Onion article, Jose Canseco outs some unlikely Mariners. http://www.theonion.com/content/node/50815
(Posted this the first time in the wrong thread)
According to some Red Sox fans who paid attention to Hillenbrand’s departure from that club a couple of years ago, there’s 2 wildly different versions of that event, too, Hillenbrand’s and RS GM Theo Epstein’s. Interesting discussion here about the vastly differing stories.
Heck, C-Rex has alredy raised the same kind of ruckus with HIS manager (albeit behind closed doors), and absolutely nothing has happened to him (including improvement in his hitting). Hargrove must have the skin of an elephant to not react to that.
So, even if Shea Hillenbrand has anger management issues with authority like Everett seemingly has, he should do OK in an M’s uniform.
And his OPS is higher than any Mariner players except Ibanez and Ichiro! Go for it, BB!! He’d be only the 6th-highest-paid guy (not that Eddie G. is gone) on the 25 man roster…
Shea Hillenbrand’s OPS will drop dramatically in Safeco.
Re: the Onion article
There must be some Mariner fans working at the Onion because this is not the first time they have pulled Willie Bloomquist’s name out their hat.
The bottom line with Hillenbrand is, while he’s a player with some value in the right situation, I don’t see how he remedies any of the Mariners’ weaknesses. Everett is no longer DH’ing against lefthanders, Perez is. Hillenbrand is not a better hitter than Perez against LHP. Even if Everett vanished off the face of the earth tomorrow (please?), Hargrove surely wouldn’t use a righty-righty platoon of Perez and Hillenbrand at DH.
The Mariners offensive weaknesses right now are DH against RHP and CF. Hillenbrand isn’t the answer to either of those. We already have the answer to the left-handed DH problem down in Tacoma.
As far as Sexson is concerned, here are his OPS’s by month:
April 659
May 611
June 858
July 873
Sexson is nowhere near the top of the list of offensive problems for the M’s. Anymore.
Beltre has been terrible in July, just as bad as he was in April and May. But I still don’t see him as being anywhere near the top of the priority list for this team. There’s far too much invested in him to give up on him yet.
What the M’s need to do is axe Everett, bring up Doyle as (at minimum) a platoon DH with Perez, and (if possible) find a CF. That doesn’t make them a World Series team, but it makes them a team that would be competitive if they had a better manager.
There must be some Mariner fans working at the Onion because this is not the first time they have pulled Willie Bloomquist’s name out their hat. I was just thinking that. However I’m not sure if The Onion staff includes a Mariners fan so much as a Bloomquist fan — albeit not in a baseball sense, but in a “reliable comedy gold” sense. Much as a joke writer might be fan of Enron, or David Lee Roth, or Vice Presidentially-induced gunshot wounds. Or Jose Canseco, for that matter. Of course at least some of the people at The Onion clearly adhere to the dictum “Pain is the essence of comedy” so they may just enjoy the thought of Ichiro and Bloomquist sharing a common outfield.
BTW, does anybody have a list of all the crazy injuries in baseball over the years? You know, Sosa’s sneeze and the dude who ironed his shirt while wearing it, Wells’ barstool and Sasaki’s “luggage” incidents, etc? Because we have a new one to add to the list:
.(Not entire off-topic, with the Red Sox coming to town).
Re: Willie and The Onion
Perhaps, but Willie isn’t that funny. I mean, a lot of casual fans don’t know who he is outside of Seattle. And there’s plenty of guys like him that you can rip on: Neifi Perez, Royce Clayton. But The Onion, like our manager, prefers Willie. The grittiest joke of them all.
If the only Everett had the relationship with Hargrove that Shea had with his manager.
#87: The broken rib is nothing like Sasaki’s. Wakefield does not have an acute fracture, but a stress fracture (an overuse injury). Read all about it a href=”http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=6222&view=findpost&p=373254″>here.
#90: Darn. Let’s try that again.
#87: The broken rib is nothing like Sasaki’s. Wakefield does not have an acute fracture, but a stress fracture (an overuse injury). Read all about it here.
#90,91: I used to know how to make links work in comments.
Read all about Wakefield’s stress fracture at http://tinyurl.com/fo25n.
No one who has ever cracked a rib “doesn’t know how he did it;” I speak from experience. I feel sure Mr. Wakefield has a story he wishes to remain private just as Sasaki did. Wait until Soxnation sniffs it out. *hee-hee*
$93: For two weeks, neither Wakefield nor the doctors even knew it was a cracked rib. The symptoms were basically “back spasms and stiffness.”
He’s been pitching for at least three starts.
You seem to know a lot about this. Would that be because you’ve had a stress fracture (not an acute fracture) of your rib, or perhaps that your an orthopedic surgeon, like the poster here: http://tinyurl.com/qahks.
69 – According to the team, Hillenbrand showed up unexpectedly from his leave, missed all the workouts, and then complained they hadn’t written him into the lineup. That’s just idiotic behaviour.
As Ricciardi says, this is consistent with his reputation. No one’s surprised Hillenbrand is behaving like this.
Hillenbrand was being used down in the order from where he’d like, but he was 7th on the team in VORP (among hitters) and just barely ahead of the backup catcher (who was being used more and more as DH against righties).