Us
Meta
Reference Material
The Future Forty 3/19/09
Evaluating Defense Evaluating Pitcher Talent
Evaluating Managers
Bugs Bunny, Greatest Banned Player Ever Selected for Best American Sports Writing!
The Attrition WarDisclaimer, Copyright
The U.S.S. Mariner is in no way affiliated with, condoned or given any notice by the Seattle Mariners baseball team, who have their own website. Similarly, we have no association with the ownership group or any businesses related to the Mariners. All article text is written by the authors, all pictures are taken by the authors, who retain copyright to their works. No copying or reproduction of any content here, photographic or otherwise, is authorized. Please email us if you wish to reproduce our work.
-
Recent Posts
- Projections, Prospects and Assorted Links
- Running For Cancer Research
- Historical Relationship Between Money And Wins
- Are Lefty Relievers the New Market Inefficiency?
- M’s Sign Shawn Camp Too
- M’s Expected To Sign Hong-Chih Kuo
- On Clubhouse Confidential
- M’s Sign Carlos Guillen
- The Mariners Off-Season Should Not Be Over
- Baseball America Top 10 List Is Out
Author Links
Forums
Local M's Coverage
M's Blogosphere
M's Official Sites
Player Blogs
Resources
Twittah
Ladies and gentlemen, major league catcher Rene Rivera.
Raul should have had that.
Three game sweep, here we come.
Don’t forget Major League pitcher Joel Pineiro. He needs love, too.
How many different ways will the Fox announcer pronounce “Scutaro”?
On the plus side, we get our afternoon back. Unless you want to watch batting practice.
my sentiments exactly. I should be concentrating on my book… ‘course that’s hard to do when you’re being strafed every minute or so by the freakin’ blue demons…
How many different ways will the Fox announcer pronounce “Scutaro�>
If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, does it make any sound?
Not saying that they aren’t making sound – I’m sure they’re making plenty of it, but I’m not inclined to letting its frequency travel through my household.
Radio’s off, too. Time for a ‘peaceful’ ballgame, if that can happen vs. Athletics.
Pineiro makes $6.8M as a Major League Pitcher.
Clearly, he’s that good.
On second thought, afternoon back sounds better. I’d like a refund on the last 40 minutes of my life, as well.
What’s that saying about knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing?
I don’t know how to explain this but obviously this A’s dominance over the Mariners is apparent… I don’t know how one team can dominate another team so much especially considering how evenly matched they are… This is ridicolous and if we don’t rebound and find away to atleast win 1 game out of this series and keep 4.5 games out I think the season is over… WOW! this game is ridicolous
It’s sad, in a way, to see Frank Thomas turn from an elite OBP superman into a hard-swinging low average HR hitter. He’s Carl Everett now, only with talent.
Dude. Pull Joel now.
“I like a deep tissue massage.”
– Lou
From the rotation.
someone tell me why we didn’t pursue another starter? I think everyone and their dog knew that Pineiro was going to kill us down the stretch, were not going to win any big games with him starting…
Who was available for the M’s to pursue?
Honestly, I don’t feel that we are evenly matched. Even in current state, we’re better than the A’s. That’s what makes it frustrating to lose to them time and time again. Although you can say there are ‘matchups’ they are very, very irrelevant compared to other ‘sports’ like basketball and football, for example. It’s obviously not the A’s taking advantage of some matchup deficiency.
Honestly, it probably has something to do with the heads on our team. We’ve already come to grips with the fact that many of them are not exactly mentally strong out there on the diamond. Here come the A’s, whose motto is ‘Killing Mariners since 1977′ and that alone is probably enough to get into the heads of some.
Just my opinion, though.
I could have just left the radio off and stayed away from the television. I mean, Joel? Even without him, the M’s look like a t-ball team against the A’s, but with him? Good thing the liquor cabinet is well stocked.
Quick quiz!
Joel Pineiro’s occupation in 2007:
A. Royals #5 starter
B. New Orleans Zephyrs innings eater
C. “Hola! Yo soy Joel Pineiro por Gigante Cadillac Chrysler Plymouth — numero uno in Miami!”
D. Mariners’ #3-4 starter (yes, both, they’ll pitch him twice because he’s that good)
Good thing the liquor cabinet is well stocked.
One of the reasons I hate day games is they make me feel like such a lush.
Actually, I’m enjoying this.
As a Mariners fan, whenever I let myself feel hope, it always feels dirty. Like I’ve just strangled a kitten or done something else I know is wrong.
To be pissed off at the Mariners is a much less guilty feeling. It just feels right. *sighs*
If they re-sign Joel, then I *will* cancel our 16 game plan.
“Tim Salmon. You know, there’s salmon up here.”
We definitely have the fifth-string broadcasters today.
A. Royals #5 starter
Sadly, I think Pineiro would be the Royals’ #2 starter.
I mean, Joe Mays was.
I was offered tickets to the game today by my employer, a certain large research university located in Seattle. I declined.
Every once in a while, I make a good decision.
The A’s seem to win the lottery every time they play against us. All of the 2 out fisted base hits make me sad.
Rivera, then Jones.
Nothing like fielding a starting lineup with only 7 players.
No 2 out magic for us… I’m jealous.
If we could even make contact with the ball with two outs and runners on base it would help our chances. Think of it as at least getting the lottery ticket.
I think I’ll go do something else now.
No throwing to first base magic either.
Ah yes, the good ol’ magic that somehow the Mariners seem to need in order to accomplish very ordinary tasks against the A’s – like throwing to first base, or winning half of the time.
I don’t usually do the stadium-no-one-voted-for dance, because I think it’s complicated, but this long sale by whoever/Piniella that the referendum passed is crazy – that’s basic research. Did they borrow fact-checkers from Fox News?
If you include the error, that’s the tenth baserunner Joel’s allowed in 2.1 innings.
That’s not clutch.
Wow, 66 pitches in 2.1 innings. He must be trying to get pulled so he can go watch reruns of some Saturday afternoon cartoons in the clubhouse.
Make it 71 after a partially intentional walk.
Lou notes Pineiro’s lost his swagger. I guess so.
I’m afraid that seeing the M’s drop these two games is going to give whatever book chapters I work on this weekend a particularly dark and nasty tone.
So now Grover pulls Joel.
About 2 innings too late.
I’m afraid that seeing the M’s drop these two games is going to give whatever book chapters I work on this weekend a particularly dark and nasty tone.
Will you be adding credits?
I think they should intentionally walk Kotsay to pitch to Bradley. Why? Because obviously trying to get the batters out isn’t working. This would shake things up a little bit.
Let’s see. Must be time to pull Joel and bring in Mateo to shut down the A’s.
God, where’s the Glenfarclas?
See ya, Joel. Here’s a $1,000 special bonus. When you get out of the clubhouse, take your time showering and packing your stuff. Then walk on over the the “E-3 Busway Access Road” at Royal Brougham and catch the 194 to Seatac.
From there, fly wherever you want. We’ll have anything you leave behind shipped to you. Bus leaves at about 3:20, which is when we’ll release the dogs.
So now Grover pulls Joel.
About 2 innings too late.
The worst part is that if these runs do score, none of them will be earned due to the error. I want to see his ERA soar up higher where it belongs, so others can see his true ‘value’.
Oh, much better. Jake Woods.
Lucky Jake Woods.
#47. Right or wrong, CBS SportsLine GameCenter has JP down as having 4 earned runs.
#47. Right or wrong, CBS SportsLine GameCenter has JP down as having 4 earned runs.
Yeah, Woods got the last out so the runs didn’t score anyway. Moot point in the end. Would love to see Pineiro’s ERA back over 6 and see what the ERA-happy FO (and fans) would do about it.
#19 -
I mean it’s nice to be optimistic, but there is no way you can say with a straight face that we are a better team than Oakland. As per their dominance all season, and the fact that thier starting pitching is easily superior to ours. It is impossible to say that
Yeah, this is one of the reasons ERA’s a particularly flawed way to measure pitcher ability.
I can’t believe how s…l…o…w… this game is moving.
Nearly 90 minutes from the first pitch and we’re still only in the 3rd…I suppose there’s still time to pull this one out, just don’t have any confidence in this team though. I can’t believe how impatient at the plate the Ms are as a team. Seems like Ichiro in particular is swinging at every first pitch he sees the past week or so.
Jose is swinging the hot stick. Joel is getting worse with each outing.
Anyone think this may be Joel’s last start?
Who knew Joel wouldn’t match up favorably to Haren?
Seriously, what a bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad time for Joel to pick to implode…..
It’s frustrating to watch the Ms inability to compete with the As head to head…. especially given the context of the division standings…
Fortunately the new Ms have shown resilience and this game is still early….
I HATE Oakland.
P.S. how long does a link have to be to be considered long?
We can pull it out. Since Joel’s out of the game
Our pen should hold them down for a while.
Just need a clutch hit.
I mean it’s nice to be optimistic, but there is no way you can say with a straight face that we are a better team than Oakland. As per their dominance all season, and the fact that thier starting pitching is easily superior to ours. It is impossible to say that
What you failed to ascertain is that there is nothing optimistic in that.
My entire point was that their ‘dominance’ against us is frustrating because they are not better, and this is not a matchup-determined sport to the extent that others are.
Their starting pitching is better. Our relief pitching is better. Our hitting is better (slightly, but it is). Our defense is better.
Not intending to get into an argument, but that’s the way I see it. It’s my opinion, of course.
Woooooooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooooo
Moon shot by Adrian! Nice!
There we go Adrian !!!
Beltre! Walks, home runs, this is the Beltre i want to see!
Loooooong way out to that left field fence. Nice shot.
Gamecast is stuck — thanks for the news guys!
Damn Fox not broadcasting the game…
The second I put on my Mariners hat, Beltre hit a homerun.
Is it a sign?
Yeah, this is one of the reasons ERA’s a particularly flawed way to measure pitcher ability.
Precisely. My only hope is that for once it would start to reflect more accurately, so that those who view it and only it (okay, maybe the almight ‘W’ too) would realize how horrible he is.
Once again, it didn’t happen.
I’m going offline in a bit, but my prediction:
Ms catch up
Hargrove puts in Mateo
Mateo gives up a double, a walk, a homerun, then a few more hits.
End score: 10-4 Oakland.
I still love the Beltre pickup. He is more of a 30, 90 guy.
2004 was indicitave of the poor NL pitching.
Cursed shimmer of hope!
Nice job, Beltre!
holding left hand high in the air, beating Ms symbol on my new jersey with right hand (which is in day 2 of the principled stand), yelling, ****BELTRE!!!!!!!!!***
And he is one the best defensive 3B’s in the game.
66 – leave that hat on!!!
Does anyone know if the M’s put any players on waivers? Like ATL did with Andrew Jones.
59 -
How can you say baseball is not a matchup determined sport?
And one key advantage that you did not mention is at the Managerial Position ….Oakland for fun
66 – leave that hat on!!!
Yes, and if the Ms come back and win this game we’ll take up a collection to have it surgically attached to your skull.
ADRIAN!!
what are the chances that Joel would clear waivers?
Maybe… I do want to be a french fry.
Someone may claim him.
But, whether they really want to make a trade for him or pickup his salary is a different question
2 more innings Jake
Then Lowe.
How can you say baseball is not a matchup determined sport?
Reread. Post.
And one key advantage that you did not mention is at the Managerial Position ….Oakland for fun
You’re right.
Um, if you claim them, you don’t get a choice: the waiving team is free to stick you with the guy.
#68. Apropros of the suggestion that Hargrove might “manage” the M’s into another loss, assuming they DO catch up…
I didn’t know — did any of you (all of you except me?) know that there’s a site over at ESPN.com where you can vote yes or know whether you think your favorite team’s manager is doing a good job?
Hargrove currently is at a 23% approval rating, ahead of only John Gibbons of Toronto, Eric Wedge of Cleveland, Dusty Baker of ChiCubs, and Felipe Alou of SF.
I think he easily clears. What real value does he have to ANY team at this point. No chance a top team wants him because, as we know you can’t put him out there in the midst of a pennant race.
“Yes” or “No” (not yes or know)
Sorry!
So, I wonder who claimed Andruw Jones today.
I thought Woods actually pitched well that last inning. He was hitting the corner against RHB and only had one muffed pitch that didn’t reach the palte. Hopefully we can get a rally going here …
Way to go Ski,
Lou’s actually making some decent points about why it is helpful for the team to work the pitcher and get on base. This immediately disqualifies him from ever joining the Mariner broadcast team.
Playing devil’s advocate: But if you claim Joel you still control him for a year….
If I understand the rules, the Ms control him next year but are faced with these options: 1. offering him a contract (its hard to imagine it would be a paycut and that he’d take it besides I think they a limited in their ability to cut his pay), not offering him a contract and risking he takes them to arbitration, or nontendering him.
If they are planning on nontendering him (which I think they are), shouldn’t this be his last start as an M?
84
Gotta love that 6% approval rating for June.
That’s it… time to put Woods in the rotation.
That’s it… time to put Woods in the rotation.
No.
The M’s have three options:
- offer him arbitration. Joel can accept or decline. If he declines, he walks, the M’s get some kind of draft pick if someone takes him. If he accepts, they head to a hearing. That can be pre-empted by
- offer him a new contract (which can be also done on the way to arb). If he takes it, yay, if he doesn’t, they let him go (unless they’re headed to arb)
- non-tender him. Joel cannot, as you imply, then take the team to arb
Jake Woods….Great Pitcher or Greatest Pitcher???
Yeah, I noticed Grover 6% rating,too. I couldn’t find another manager with such a low month, though I only checked about 5 of them near the bottom of this month’s ratings. Mike’s Overall rating is 22%.
I’m already bored of “‘Til Death” and it hasn’t even premiered yet.
If we have guys on base this time the AAA twosome must not be allowed to bat.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a painful inning.
99; Excluding the ninth inning of that 2001 Indians game, of course.
Why don’t we have guys who strike out the side on 10 pitches?
Sexson, sure. Broussard, yeah. Betancourt? He doens’t strike out much. Doesn’t walk either.
Woods is done.
It’s actually quite surprising the A’s only have 4 runs. There have been no 1-2-3 innings for the A’s, and only two 1-2-3-4 innings. Wait just a minute, something good’s finally happening: Lowe’s coming in!
We’re chokers.
Pah.
Because this wasn’t hard enough to watch already.
Odds that we see Johjima?
The pick on Ellis at 3rd looked good. Then again, Swisher was safe at home. The downside of seeing the Mariners on tv is that they only televise A’s games down here in central California.
well Lowe isn’t a robot…we’ve learned that much….
now its time to chase Haren
man, get out to the car around 2:40, hear Dave on the radio and ‘the lefthander’ in the game, and I thought it had to be at least the 7th inning or so… nope.
and JohnPhil, from today’s TNT:
“Rumors circulated Friday that the Mariners had made a waiver claim on Atlanta center fielder Andruw Jones, but they were just that, rumors.
“We’ve made waiver claims, but not on Andruw, and everyone we’ve claimed has been taken off waivers,” a source close to the Mariners’ front office said. “This time of year, teams put entire rosters through waivers.”
Would the Mariners claim a player to block a possible deal if they suspected another team in the American League West was after him? “Only if we wanted the player, not just to prevent someone else from getting him,” the source said. “You make a claim on a player you don’t want, you could wind up with him and his salary.”
Dobby’s weekly out.
I really wish Hargrove would consider Johjima a more legitimate bench bat when he’s not starting. He’s a better bet against righties or lefties than Dobbs.
but then he wouldn’t be getting any rest at all, because you wouldn’t want him to actually take more than 6 days off a month.
Almost out of time…
an 8 pitch epic strikeout for Jones…. at least he’s seeing pitches
Ichiro is really struggling since the All-Star break…
Has anyone else noticed that Lou sounds even more like your typical neighborhood drunk than usual?
113 – I agree
114 – Joh’s gotta come into the game whern they PH for Rivera anyway, so they might as well have let him hit and save The Bench Elf to hit for Jones in that inning or for someone in a later inning.
#117– well, for Ichiro!, I guess he is
.310 ave .356 obp .333 slg .689 ops
what is Randazo’s zone like? it seems a lot of balls have been called today…
More than once, Josh Lewin said that Lou’s Seattle bullpen stunk, as if it did for his entire tenure. Lou never acknowledged it.
never acknowledged that they stunk, or never acknowledged that he sometimes had a pretty good bullpen?
An unusually ugly K by AB.
Raul, I have had a very bad day. Please start a rally. Right now. Thank you.
That was not what I asked for, Raul. Sheesh.
I was going to threaten to sic Lauren on him, but he s.o. before I could.
This is terrible.
This doesn’t mean the season is over, but now we have to hope for the A’s to collapse.
118
Agreed but isnt it better to have a drunk Lou than Grover sober!
so, what will today’s newsflash from the PI be? “A’s still own Mariners”?
“4th13tic5 pwn th3 M4rin3r5″
That’s way too easy to read. What’s happening to me?
“A’s still own Mariners; consider selling to Angels.”
A summary of the new Fox football ad.
Three white guys enter the “Bank of Knowledge”*. They are greeted and attended by three people: two attractive white women and a black man**. They walk through the bank on their way, presumably, to a meeting or offices. A giant trophy of one of the white men’s fishing is mounted on a wall, but he cares so little for it that he knows only that it’s a “big fish”. A black man in a football uniform destroys an ATM***.
* as if Howie Long has any knowledge to deposit
** woman 1 delivers a mocha and the black man is chided for incomplete work
*** which is noted as being a regular occurrence
Three balls out of the infield over the past 17 batters. Geez.
OK, three out of 18 to close out the game. Pathetic.
I know the game´s not over, but someone can make serious money printing Ms vs. As ¨Reverse the Curse¨ t-shirts to sell at these games. This is just getting out of hand, especially against a team we´re supposed to be better than.
Oakland: “im in ur base killing ur d00dz”
Cancel that – frame just updated, game over. We´re owned.
Derek, fairly consistent with their news coverage…I’d say.
better than, huh?
hmmn.
Zito vs Washburn.
Haren vs. Pineiro.
hmmn.
I was less upset about the obvious race/gender issues involved with this ad and more upset about the fact that the woman says “ATM machine,” when the “M” in “ATM” does, in fact, stand for “machine.” Basically she’s asking for a new Automatic Teller Machine Machine. Perhaps the original machine was broken because it wouldn’t accept the football player’s PIN number.
In this life there are tops and there are bottoms. The Mariners seem to recognize this and have settled into their apparently permanent role without too much fuss.
Fox. Home of the Lowest Common Denominator.
Huh. I thought it was an ironic riff on the notion that Terry Bradshaw has knowledge.
well we knew going into this weekend that our rotation didn’t match up favorably….
hey, Jason? could I hold Noah for a while? that might make things a little better…
Well, the Mariners’ season is slowly but surely coming to an end.
Maybe it would be better if the Mariners just stunk it up the rest of the season, so as to insure that Hargrove and Bavasi will be fired in the offseason.
Still watching Fox for some reason. They just had a commercial for Hot Pockets. I think I’m going to be sick.
I used to loooove Hot Pockets when I was a teenager. But then I could have eaten styrofoam and my body would have been fine.
mmmm, pizza rolls.
For that matter, “automatic teller machine” is itself redundant; either “automatic teller” or “teller machine” would be sufficient.
#151 how about calling it the “screw you we’re going to charge you whether you use this machine or go into a human teller” machine?
95 DMZ wrote:
“The M’s have three options:
- offer him arbitration. Joel can accept or decline. If he declines, he walks, the M’s get some kind of draft pick if someone takes him. If he accepts, they head to a hearing. That can be pre-empted by
- offer him a new contract (which can be also done on the way to arb). If he takes it, yay, if he doesn’t, they let him go (unless they’re headed to arb)
- non-tender him. Joel cannot, as you imply, then take the team to arb”
Actually, the first one is incorrect. If the player is offered arbitation, he cannot “decline” the offer. Once offered arbitration, he is considered a “signed” player and will either reach agreement with the team on a new contract or he’ll go to an arbitration hearing.
The situation where a player can decline the offer of arbitation only comes up when the player has become a free agent and the team offers him arbitration so they can get draft choices if he declines (and if he accepts, which very few free agents do, he’s considered a signed player).
The whole thing is kind of a moot point anyway. Pineiro will get over $7 million in arbitation (either through a hearing or pre-hearing settlement) and neither the M’s or anybody he may be traded to would be stupid enought to offer him arbitration.
Help, it’s the typo police — should be arbitration, not arbitation!
Yeah, I botched that explanation entirely – since he’s still under team control, he can’t decline arbitration.
PIN NUMBER (# 141) – Pin Number is DAN SZYMBORSKI’s pet peeve. Speaking of pet peeves, a restaurant critic was asked to list his five worst peeves about restaurant dining.
# 5. – “Just as soon as your coffee has cooled down enough for drinking, a waiter comes by and warms it up.”
(Sort of makes you realize how small your troubles really are.)
It needn’t be taken as an I-told-you-so when I say that the only award or result I’ve seen the ’06 Mariners in contention for since the middle of last off-season was the winner of the Alpo “Eat Hearty” Stannous Recepticle. This hasn’t been, isn’t, and won’t be a playoff team, ’cause to be that you have to be a contender, and this team isn’t that, either. Impatient offense which can’t work rallies unless everybodies hot at the plate. Too little power. Starting rotation of number four starters (in terms of results, not potential for all concerned) which dominates _nobody_. Yes, there’s a great bullpen, and some defensive stars, although there are some terrible holes in the defense, too. Just winning a series AT ALL against a good team—see, Boston—feels like a major victory rather than something expected. The effort and intensity level of the team in this series against Oakland has been . . . non-competitive, let’s leave it at that.
And this won’t change, really, until we get an FO which will change the mix. There’s a core of young guys who hustle, plus a few (very few) older guys who are useful. But the rest just don’t cumulate value added. Put the pressure on, and the cardboard props fold where structural members should be.
IOW this year’s Ms are a bottom.
130: ESPN’s headline as of right now: “First-place A’s own M’s.”
#157: great opinion except for the part that this team won’t be in contention…. It’s August and going into this weekend, the Ms were 3.5 games out,,,,
so once again…great post-except for the underlying premise