Game 127, Yankees at Mariners
Johnson vs Washburn.
The 1990s Mariners are often associated with Ken Griffey Jr, Jay Buhner, Edgar Martinez, Lou Piniella, and even occassionally Alex Rodriguez. But for me, a lot of the memories that I love have to do with the Big Unit. I remember his no-hitter. I was at a couple of his 19K performances. I skipped school to watch him beat the Angels in the one game playoff. No one can forget the roar of the crowd when he began to warm up in game 5 of the ALDS against the Yankees. Randy Johnson was the most fun pitcher to watch of my youth. He was so dominant, so intimidating, and so tall.
When I was about 10 or 11, I went to Dave Valle’s baseball camp, where we learned not much of use but got to hang out with major league players. I remember asking Brian Holman how he felt when Ken Phelps went yard to end the perfect game and what he’d do if brother Brad ever blew a save for him. I remember asking Valle about Edgar’s toe tap timing mechanism. But more than anything else, I remember the last day, there was several lines for autographs. Valle’s line was the longest, naturally, and the Julio Cruz and Brian Holman lines were pretty long too. But the shortest line led to the table where the tall ugly guy sat. We didn’t really know who he was or why he was here, but I decided to get in that line, and ended up having a 10 minute conversation with Randy Johnson, and he couldn’t have been any nicer to me. He won me over that day, and then spent the next 10 years reinforcing what I already knew – this guy was awesome, and I’d never see anything like him again.
I never got on the Randy sold out bandwagon. I pulled for the Diamondbacks to win the World Series because I wanted to see him get a ring. I didn’t care when he went to the hated Yankees. He’s still Randy Johnson.
Call me whatever you want, but tonight, I’m rooting for Randy Johnson again. I hope he throws another no-hitter. Thanks for all the memories, RJ.
Comments
224 Responses to “Game 127, Yankees at Mariners”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Is this game not on TV in Seattle?
And this might be the most surprising line-up Grover has run out this year. Ibanez gets the day off, Snelling starts vs a lefty (though hitting 9th, which is stupid), and Bohn plays right field, all getting away from Grover’s usual low-maintenance substitutions.
Of course, he has Willie hitting second, so you can’t change all your spots in one night.
“Call me whatever you want, but tonight, I’m rooting for Randy Johnson again.”
I’ll call you… sentimental. And, really, that trumps anything we hope to gain by winning, doesn’t it?
I can’t quite agree, I’d rather see Doyle go 4-4. And, oh, I hate me some Yankees.
But I understand. And I love these sort of game thread intros.
Beltre and Ibanez get the same night off, Bloomquist batting second…
You know what I think? I think Hargrove hates the Red Sox for some unknown reason.
Ugh. Looks like Damon is going for the Mattingly stache too. Still, he couldn’t look as skeezy as Giambi if he tried.
This game is on CW 11 in Seattle.
Beltre and Ibanez get the same night off, Bloomquist batting second…
Beltre has a sore neck. It’s why he left the game yesterday.
Ibanez can’t hit lefties. I’m glad to see Grover recognizing this, even if it is too late.
Thanks, Lauren. Here in Canada, when we get the M’s, it’s usually the FSN feed, unless they’re playing the Jays. Tonight it’s the YES feed, and I was wondering why.
It was announced that Shawn Nottingham was the PTBNL in the Broussard deal. Any info on this guy Dave?
#6 – Ah. Ok, I take it back. Except the Willie part.
Don’t know how I missed that about Beltre. Hope it’s not serious.
Ibanez can’t hit lefties. I’m glad to see Grover recognizing this, even if it is too late.
Do you suppose Grover will start using him as a platooned-only-against-tough-lefties sort of guy?
RJ is the great Mariner of them all! GO RANDY!!!
Nottingham is one of the Mariners plethora of 86-90 southpaws with no real outpitch. He’s also extremely immature.
His upside is John Halama, and he’s got about a 10% chance of doing that well.
I’ve said before what I think of the way Johnson left town, and I’m not going to reiterate it in the face of someone else’s affection.
But I will say this: the Mariners’ refusal to give him the long-term extension he wanted sure ended up looking stupid.
Wow. Just wow. I’ve got some of those memories too. Here’s to one good reason to watch tonight’s game.
I’m with John – I love these types of game thread intros as well.
My youth parallels Dave’s in many ways. I never got to meet RJ myself, but he was certainly a huge part of my childhood memories. I remember working a car wash fundraiser for my little league team, listening to a game on the radio as Randy took a no-no into the ninth against the A’s, just shortly after his dad passed. I skipped school to attend the day game against the Angels in the last week of the 95 season when RJ shut them down and we won big, pretty much sealing the playoff spot (or so we thought at the time). And of course I skipped school to watch the one game playoff, though I sadly did not attend that one.
Other favorite RJ memories include the times he came in in relief (NOTHING rocked like the Kingdome with the Unit coming out of the pen), obviously the no no, the Mr Slappy commercial…and on and on.
Next to Junior, I have more memories attached to Randy Johnson than any athlete.
Thanks for jogging those memories, Dave.
Many years ago, at an early morning Spring training practice, my son asked Randy Johnson to sign a baseball for him. He did so, then kneeled down and talked to my son for five minutes or so. My son was awed, I was completely impressed. Through the good and bad times of Randy, I’ve thought of those five minutes he took to talk to my kid.
I’ve said before what I think of the way Johnson left town, and I’m not going to reiterate it in the face of someone else’s affection.
Thank you.
I’m with John – I love these types of game thread intros as well.
I enjoyed writing it. Its good to remind people that I’m a human being from time to time.
Didn’t The Boss have a long-standing “no facial hair” rule? I mean, Damon and Giambi cleaned up when they joined the Yanks. So what’s going on now? They got this as some kind of reward for sweeping the Sox? They’re out of town and they know games on the west coast are after His bedtime? He’s too busy playing with stadium models to actually be watching his team? Or… has anyone seen Steinbrenner lately? He’s kind of like Castro, a semi-mythical creature from an Ancien Régime who needs to show up in the media periodicaly to remind us they still exist.
No beards. Pretty sure the Boss tolerates lip hair. Mattingly had a stache for years, for instance.
Ichiro just flat smoked that ball. Wow. He was looking for a fastball down the pipe and he got it.
Randy’s fastball, it ain’t what it used to be.
There’s Ichiro etting up some Boom Boom!
So much for the no-no. Screw you, Ichiro.
It’s hard to believe that RJ’s ERA is so high, he’s still throwing reasonably hard.
*setting
Is it just me, or do we REALLY need Ichiro to excel at the plate over teh last 6 weeks, in order to dispel the “centerfield will distract from his abilities as a hitter” crowd?
18: The difference being that Steinbrenner didn’t murder thousands of people for political reasons.
I hate the &*!^ing Yankees, but I won’t go that far.
sal fasno got the hair thing going, in honor of mattingly
It’s hard to belive that NO ONE has thrown a no-hitter since Randy was *perfect* nearly two and a half seasons ago.
Nice stroke by Jose. Good to see him get on that pitch.
Great the game broadcasting on YES for MLB Extra Innings….I’m gonna hate the 9th inning when the Yankees win..thank God it’s not Michael Sterling on tv though.
Showing your affection for another player is a dangerous game. Ichiro! is a jealous deity.
And RJ isn’t up to form. The M’s better exploit this for all they can now, because he’ll probably pull it together and shut them out for 7 innings or so.
I want Ichiro to excel over the last six weeks to shut up the critics who’re piping up again because his average has dropped all the way to the .320s for crying out loud.
Well, joser, he got into Sexson’s kitchen there.
Eighty-four? Didn’t that slider of his used to get up to ninety?
Jeez, Eddie has a nice line against the Randinator.
I want Ichiro to excel over the last six weeks to shut up the critics who’re piping up again because his average has dropped all the way to the .320s for crying out loud.
I also want Ichiro to excel here so that he puts behind any doubts that he can be a successful hitter while playing CF.
I always want Ichiro to excel.
35: A couple weeks ago, someone pointed out that the Rangers have stopped using matchup data because most of it is old.
I’ll theorize, for a moment, that the usefulness of batter vs. pitcher data has diminished as the leagues have grown in size. Sure, you might be able to put together fifty plate appearances against Jamie Moyer, but you’ll have to do it over several years.
Back when there were only eight or ten teams in the league, you played against a lot of the same guys over and over. That’s something we just don’t see any more.
I wonder if Ichiro knows Excel?
Perhaps Ichiro himself is the most important skeptic to convince.
If he feels productive at the plate while playing center, I imagine there’s a good shot he’ll be willing to man the middle all year next season.
Which means a healthy dose of Doyle.
Which is good for the soul.
So, if Ichiro is willing to move to CF for next year, what do the M’s do in the offseason? Keep the roster pretty much in the same place? At least on the hitting side? (Obviously, they’re going to need to add some pitching talent, hopefully starting with Daisuke Matsuzaka.)
Do you go with the same ten guys as starters (including the DH platoon of Benuardo?) Or is there some way the M’s can upgrade in the offseason?
I get the impression that the line-up had a lot of erasures; it was Raul’s scheduled day off, Beltre was in at third then out with “a stiff neck, the remnants of a hard slide Tuesday night” and Richie was at first, then moved to DH — possibly related to what Drayer said last night about Sexson’s series of nagging injuries and was gimping around the clubhouse last night. I’m just happy to see C. Snelling, lf.
Every so often I feel guilty for participating in game threads and not citing statistics or arguing methodologies. Someone tell me that it’s ok to simply spell players’ names right and go oohhh and ahhh, please.
Lauren, it’s quite okay to spell players’ names right and go oooh and aahhh. (Oh, and it’s really good when you can use the apostrophe correctly. Yay!)
and your Mastery of Invective.
Lauren, you are one of the last people who should feel guilty about their contributions to the game threads.
There are plenty of posters who bring nothing to the table (myself included, perhaps). You are not one of them/us.
Washburn with a pretty nice start so far. Gotta dig the K’s.
Is it just me, or does Washburn look effective tonight?
Got it. Must fuckin’ curse more.
Ain’t nuthin’ like keeping the Yankees off base.
#48 – SHHHH!
Wow, Val caught both Roger and Randy, I hadn’t realized that. Lucky guy.
We all know how good the Rocket is, but a case can be made that Randy Johnson is the best left-handed pitcher ever.
On a game note, it is nice to see some guys get some effing days off. It’s a shame that Hargrove waits until were 99 games back to actually use his bench.
49: If you’re going to curse, remember to call them the Fucking Yankees. I always do.
I think there’s a good argument for Randy Johnson having as good a five-year stretch as any pitcher ever, but as far as best left-hander ever, Lefty Grove is pretty stiff competition.
53
Yeah, Grove would be his main competition. Although, the Dodgers once had a lefty who had a decent five year stretch himself.
don’t forget about 363 wins
If you want to talk peak value, let’s include Sandy Koufax in the discussion. Yeah, his career didn’t last that long. At its peak, however, he was practically untouchable.
Yeah, Lefty’s been pretty stiff since 1975.
Ba dum bump.
That’s why we love you, Lauren. *&#!ing Derek Jeter. I hate that guy.
Spahn had a long distinguished career, but was only truly dominate for one season.
1-1 tie crap…well this game is over and in the books..it’s hard being a M’s fan these days..I think the only way for them to win games is to pitch shutouts..so yeah I’m pessismistic tonight. The 1-0 lead was good for a second.
Koufax was great, but the era he pitched in makes him look greater. Grove dominated in a hitter’s era (as has RJ).
Grove’s top ERA+s: 219, 190, 185, 185, 176. Career 148.
Koufax’s best: 190, 187, 161, 160, 143. Career 131.
Johnson: 198, 196, 190, 184, 177. Career 142.
Of course ERA+ is not everything. But it does help sort out differences in hitter’s and pitcher’s times.
Wow, think how good Abreu could be if he still hit for power. He’d be the *perfect* leadoff hitter (at least as perfect as you one be without being Rickey Henderson) if only he were comfortable in that role… On the other hand, being stuck out be Jarrod Washburn isn’t exactly a feather in your cap.
And Johnson’s a lot closer to Grove than I thought, across the board. It looks seriously arguable. Damn.
I think you shouldn’t count Koufax out of the discussion. You can only do so much to prevent runs, y’know? Once you get down to a certain point, you’re really not able to prevent any more run scoring. Once ERAs get down below 2.00, you can’t really crank ‘em any lower.
This means that the era they pitched in made Lefty and the Unit more valuable, but I’m not sure it means they had more ability.
So, if you said “Washburn vs RJ” and then you said “I bet one of them will have 6 more Ks than the other by the end of the third…”
should we count this as a demarcation point?
“On December 3, 1968, the Baseball Rules Committee voted to lower the height of the pitching mound from fifteen to ten inches and to require that all pitching mounds be sloped gradually so that pitchers will not appear to be firing from a steep cliff to the batter below. “
Nice Job, Washburn.
(bringing it into this millennium for a sec)
WOO!
And Doyle doubles! Woo! Hoo! With another Woo! for good measure.
DOYYYYYYYLLE!! w000000000t!!
Snelltastic…
I don’t think the young fella liked being sat down against lefties.
Well, RJ had to deal with the long ball; Grove had to deal with primitive defenses, and a league that hit around .300 on a year to year basis.
I’m one who thinks that baseball’s modern era didn’t really begin until the 40s when the talent pool was expanded through integration. Grove was the best LHP of the old era, and Randy is the greatest southpaw of the new. I have a feeling it would be quite difficult to quantify baseball form the 30s, with the game today. Of course I’m probably wrong.
Side Note:
DOYLE!
Goddamn! Willie hit the holy fu*king s*** out of that one!
I gotta give Bloomie some credit, there. That was a picture-perfect bunt. Wow. That’s beautiful.
What do you call that, a Bloomquirk? On the radio, they just awarded the hit to “Bob Christopherson, Safeco’s head groundskeeper.”
That was the most useless single I have ever seen in my 33 years and 11 months on this planet.
Or did I miss that, and it was a swinging bunt? I only kinda half caught it. (And Bloomquist should be looking to steal, here. Really.)
Long time reader, first time poster.
All these RJ stories got me thinking about my experience with him.
I was at the Kingdome way back when with my younger brother, probably around 91-92. We were waiting with about 70 other kids by the player’s parking lot for autographs. RJ came out and said he was only going to sign two. He grabbed my brother’s baseball from one side of the crowd, signed it, then grabbed mine from the other side the crowd, signed it, got into his car and bailed. My brother and I went back home stoked.
I love that camera behind the catcher so that you can see RJ’s arm sling out just like in the old days….
J-LO!
Lopez is starting to see the ball better, and go the other way, too. The League adjusted to him, and now maybe he’s catching up a little bit, too.
Nice job by Jose to drop the head of the bat on the ball. That’s twice tonight that he’s made good contact going the other way.
Now Richie really needs to hit the snot out of it.
(D’oh! That was so close to a fair ball!)
So Lopez just owns Johnson tonight. Which figures, since he hasn’t been able to buy an RBI (or even many hits) lately…
He hit that ball half a country mile.
not a deliberate bunt, but a ball cues off the end of the bat that happened to run down the line neatly– and what appears to be a subtle rise in the middle of the chalk kept it fair
Nice, Richie. You hit the snot out of that one.
Hey, look. It’s a rally. With extra-base hits and everything. And while Willie’s single may have been useless, it beats the hell out of a strikeout. That nasty little single bought the M’s another run.
And who got it started? Snelling. He’s the man.
Sidenote:
We all know how unreliable ERA can be, ERA+ seems to punish pitchers from the dead ball era too harshly, while over-rewarding pitchers from heavy hitting eras. Of course, I could be completly wrong.
If you go by ERA+, Lefty is the best pitcher ever (as Pedro has plenty of time to come back to the pack before his career is over).
Well, that was most of the snot, anyway.
I stand by my original statement: they need to add-on now because at some point RJ’s going to dry them up.
You know, just the coaching staff for the Yanks is like some kind of HOF luncheon…
…and what appears to be a subtle rise in the middle of the chalk kept it fair
Willie stepped there on purpose to raise the dirt and keep the ball fair. He’s that good.
Yeah, RJ: Seeing his hand on the tube _behind_ the batter’s head gives you some idea of what the LH hitters go through facing him—and then that slider used to break all the way across the plate and down out of the zone. Murder. Except, he doesn’t get that same break any more, and his velocity is down a touch. Still, a great career.
First two Mariners games I ever saw were Randy Johnson games. The first game was the one where Griffey broke his wrist. The second game was the AL tiebreaker game.
Clearly I chose a bad time for a Subway run. Go Ms!
64: That’s a good point; I’d never thought of it that way.
RJ beat the Angels on my twenty-second birthday. I skipped out on helping a lab section at my college to watch the game. I had an Angels fan sitting across the room from me, and I abused him heartily at the end of the game.
Not as much as we abused the Yankee fan sitting in the dorm lounge right after The Double, however.
I think there’s a good argument for Randy Johnson having as good a five-year stretch as any pitcher ever, but as far as best left-hander ever, Lefty Grove is pretty stiff competition.
I’d go with Warren Spahn, but I’m biased. He was a friend of the family.
there was always the discussion about how the ball not only came down at a different plane because of RJs height, it seemed even worse due to the way he loomed on the mound and his long arm brought the ball to the hitter. Wonder if it is any different when a batter is as tall as Sexson or Derrick Lee…
Aww…. poor Don Mattingly, the only Yankee never to play in a World Series. I really feel for him. What a terrible injustice! What type of a cruel, merciless God would permit that to happen?!?
Don Mattingly didn’t play in a World Series? I Did Not Know That. Why wasn’t I informed of this by the media before?
Back to the bench, CANE-O!
That was a very nice play by both those guys. I think Eddie just stole the emergency catcher title from the Bloomer!
I guess Washburn figures it just saves him a few pitches since he was gonna walk him anyway….
DOYLE!
Damon really looks like a dork with that fuzz on his lip.
Sidenote: I don’t suppose that would be considered a “meaningful” contribution to the game thread.
Sorry.
Fuck.
P.S. Doyle! Nice catch!
Doyle!!!!
Ibanez does not catch that.
DOYLE-ALICIOUS!
105… it also would have bounced past a diving Bloomquist.
IT’S OPPOSITE DAY!!!
Damn.
Arrgh. So close.
I love how no one posts during a Doyle at bat.
Just me, but WaMu was always shorthand for Washington Mutual, not THE ACTUAL NAME OF THE BANK.
And it sounds too much like WaWa.
T.J. Bohn looks like, once the game is over, he’s going to take off his shirt and pose for an abercrombine magazine.
Is it great to see Ichiro in center or what?
I’m digging this Ichiro in Center Field stuff.
Ichiro, this is why you should stay in CF for the rest of your career.
112, but it’s hip.
“Where u at?”
“I’m rollin to WaMu homes.”
I think he looks like Khalil Greene’s boyfriend.
And that’s why Ichiro should be in CF. He’s VERY dangerous there.
Giambi’s stache makes Adam Morrison look good…
Or Owen Wilson.
[KJR Caller]I think they should give Bloomquist a shot at center.[/KJR Caller]
[Sandy]I agree![/Sandy]
Go….Washburn?
Yup. One of these two starters is going to get to 6 Ks first. The other lefthander.
#123, no kidding. I’m very pleased with tonights’ performance by Wash, but I honestly cannot think of another start this year where he was this, gasp, “on”.
My g/f, who is a transplanted Yankee, chose to go to tonights’ game since it was going to be Wash pitching “so should be a nice hitting display.”
Ha…
J-Rod had a couple of starts like this in early April. It’s not ‘him,’ no, but I’ll take it when I can get it.
This is random but for fans of “24″, doesn’t Jose Lopez bear a passing resemblance to a young Haysbert (President Palmer)?
Monkies make commercials better.
Be even better without the humans.
I’m really liking this Doyle/Ichiro/Bohn OF behind Washburn defensively. Is Bohn an offensive liability? Sure, but as long as the M’s keep someone around on the bench to pinch hit for him should a key spot come up, that shouldn’t be a huge problem. It won’t make Washburn an ace, but whatever we can do to maximize his value now that we’re saddled with his contract is a good thing.
Given RJ’s struggles this year, could this be the last time we hear Niehaus call a Unit game (I’m with radio)?
He’s signed for next year.
Wow.
Nice catch there by Mike Cameron!
I was going to say that.
Hell of a catch.
The last mariner to make a catch like that was named Cameron. Reed would’ve had to go ‘Jim Edmonds’ to catch that.
Billie Boomquist doesn’t get that ball to center either. Nor does Jeremy Reed. I am just soooooo glad to have a real CFer again.
Why Mateo? Why??!?!?
Washburn made sure no one could catch this one
Julio Fucking Mateo.
Nice game for Washburn. Hopefully Mateo doesn’t blow it.
Mateo accidentally got a crucial out two nights ago so Grover thinks he walks on water.
You had _any_ doubt it would be Mateo, hey? ‘Cause he throws strikes, and Grover’s not an original thinker.
Mateo will give up two runs and pick up his 10th win of the year.
“These numbers indicate a hard thrower…So, basically, he’s the hardest thrower in the bull…uh this pitching staff” – Bobby Mercer on Julio Mateo (Last I checked Putz, Soriano, Lowe and Felix ALL throw harder).
I vaguely remember a post Dave made long ago in which he chose Mateo as a long reliever for a team built from scratch that would compete while fitting within a reasonable budget. Long, long ago.
I cringe when Mateo gets the call like everyone else, but now that Lowe’s on the DL and Soriano should be, who should come in here?
To be honest, I’d rather have Mateo in than Rafael Soriano. With Soriano’s arm being a bit… wonky at the moment, I’d rather lose this game than have him exacerbate whatever problem he’s been having.
Still, nothing quite like watching Mateo waddle to the mound. It’s the Mariners’ death rattle.
OMG!
A ground ball out with Mateo pitching!
Soon after…
People soon look out their windows, there will be a black cat breaking a mirror while walking under 13 ladders while taking a picture of a solar eclipse.
Aaaand Julio shimmies like a garter snake and gets out of it. I’ll take it (since I have to).
Hargrove is an idiot.
Whew! As long as Mateo doesn’t come back in the 8th…still nobody seems to be warming up in the bullpen.
And there we have it!
The 129th rally this year alone that Willie has suffocated
Just think, both WFB and Mateo have guaranteed deals for next year.
Mmmm. Gimme some redneck love.
At least Mateo has pitched better lately and actually has a few good seasons behind him (strictly as a MIDDLE reliever of course) Where Willie has never done crapola…and likely never will.
Just think how many more games would’ve been attainable if Gorgeous George was used more and Julio was used LESS!
Mateo had ONE good season behind him. One. That was 2003. The other seasons are either average or horrible.
I think the Pear has been visiting Chef Jeremy’s after-game buffet.
You can talk about an Ichiro-Bohn-Snelling outfield being nice, and Bohn might be a nice fifth outfielder/25th man to keep on the roster. I’d much rather see Reed come back as the fourth outfielder. His bat’s got more potential and he’s a better fielder all around.
Reed as a 4th OF might be just the ticket for this team next year.
Ohhhhh…. That was painful to watch. I thought Jose had a double on that one. Foul by inches again.
Lay off the Pear, lest I bosc you in the head.
161, I think Reed as a fourth outfielder would be fantastic for most teams. But for us, he’s a lefty, backing up three lefties (assuming Ibanez, Ichiro, Snelling). If we had a 5 man bench we could probably get away with it and carry a righty (Morse/Bohn type) as well. But if we are saddled with a 4 man bench again, I imagine we’ll have to find a righthanded 4th OF.
I’d love for Reed to be part of this team though. I have this funny feeling that the wrist was a bigger part of the problem than anyone realizes, and that after enough time to rehab it, we just might have the old JR back.
Which would have a ton of value as a 4th OF/PH/PR type. Especially once Jones is ready and the OF is Jones, Ichiro, Snelling with Ibanez out of the OF picture.
159
Please explain how his 2005 is not considered “good” but his 2003 one according to you was. 2005 showed his ERA was lower and he gave up less hr’s in more innings, even with that one ill-conceived start.
You know, with Criag Wilson and Bohn in this game, we just need
Khalil Greene and Eric Byrnes and we’d have the all-Spicoli lineup….
A-Rod adds to his league lead in times getting booed from the on deck circle
Lauren, redneck love leads inevitabily to more little rednecks. I don’t think we need that.
166
The Weaver bro’s gotta be on that list too
i bet he’ll feel that in the morning.
Yeah, they should do a caledar for High Times or something…
I miss the guy with the dollar bill fishing pole.
Uhhhh
Was that TOO down the middle or something?
Yeah. I have to log on to complain about that call. Alex living dangerously.
All these boos, must feel like a home game for ARod.
We lose 11 in-a-row and then turn around and take 2/3 from the hot Yankees. Go figure! Granted it is probably a worn out Yankee team.
Wahoo JJ!!!! You’re the man!
It still hurts to think how great RJ and A-Rod were/are and how they got away.
I think the M’s are going with 14 position players and 11 pitchers next year. The 12 pitchers thing is a Grover attachment, and by all reports, Grover’s going to be gone.
With 14 position players, you can afford to keep Reed as a spare OF, and maybe try and find a cheap RH OF bat. (Doesn’t have to be a guy capable of playing CF, either, as that’s what you’ve got Reed on the bench for.)
Then your bench is two OF, Bloomie, a backup C (Rivera), and someone else, probably another corner infielder. This is a staff that can easily get by with eleven pitchers. That seventh guy in the ‘pen is hardly being used this year.
And A-Rod strikes out to end the game. That’s a picture-perfect ending to a great game. I liked this one.
Ah, that’s darn sweet. We nab 2 of 3 from the Yanks. This season may be a bust, but I’ll take that every year.
Except he doesn’t get cheers when he strikes out to end the game at home. So he’s got that going for him, which is nice.
JJ’s pretty great, too.
As a Red Sox fan, I’d like to thank the Ms for taking 2/3.
Honestly…its like Alex had no chance vs JJ
Who would’ve thought THAT obviously statement would be possible as recently as just last year?
How much sweeter could that last out be, but to strike out A-Rod?
Hubba hubba.
J.J.!
…THAT “obvious” statement
I must say, that was a fun game. Snelling catch. Ichiro catch. Washburn’s strikeouts. J.J.’s strikeouts. Sad, defeated Yankees. Love it!
179 – the last member of that bench would be the non-starting half of Benuardo.
And I seriously hope Rivera’s not the backup catcher again, although it seems likely he will be.
While I agree an 11 man pitching staff would be the route to go, more teams have 12 man pens these days than not. So I’m expecting a 4 man bench until I see reason to believe differently.
Sure hope you’re right though.
Jose on the postgame is hilarious. He sounds like a great guy to sit beside on the bus or in the dugout.
Agreed. A peach of a game, right from Ichiro’s 1st at bat.
It’s so much easier to follow the M’s knowing there’s no question of a pennant race.
14Ks in this game, and only 3 of the were RJ’s.
189:
Of course. You’re right. I missed that. That’s a good last guy to have on the bench, however.
Well that was a fun game to watch…
My four year old daughter was trying to talk me into buying tickets from a scalper and going to the game tonight. Why the hell didn’t I listen to her?
It’s way easier to watch the games now cause there’s not that much invested. Maybe Washburn feels more responsibility now that Jamie’s gone and he’s the old man of the rotation – unconsciously figuring into his mental preparation. Whatever, he pulled it off with nine strikouts on the night – yay, that was a fun win!
193 – no doubt.
A bench of 1/2 Benuardo, Reed, Bloomquist, backup catcher (by some divine intervention, Quiroz?), and a RH OF would be pretty sweet. Actually, Morse would make a lot of sense since he allegedly can play a passable corner OF in a pinch, but also could man 3B/SS, allowing us to save Bloomquist for PR duties.
Benuardo, Reed, Bloomquist, Morse, Quiroz.
Could we be so lucky?
Re – 197. Does bench construction fall under the hated “roster construction” category?
If so, bigtime apologies, and it won’t happen again.
Please explain how his 2005 is not considered “good†but his 2003 one according to you was. 2005 showed his ERA was lower and he gave up less hr’s in more innings, even with that one ill-conceived start.
I, and others, have tried to explain how ERA is a deceptive stat that doesn’t tell the true story of a pitcher’s performance. I’m willing to try one more time:
Julio Mateo FIP by year:
2002 – 4.87
2003 – 4.30
2004 – 5.28
2005 – 4.60
2006 – 5.00
I can’t find his xFIP, but I can only guarantee you that the only year his xFIP was even close to average would have been 2003. The reason his 2003 is his best year is his strikeout rate of 7.46 per 9 innings pitched and a walk rate of only 1.37 per 9 (which is awesome). He was giving up homeruns on flyballs at an around league average rate (11.1%), so there really was no mystery as to what his success was. There was some luck with his LOB% (81.6%) and with his BABIP (.222) but when you’re not allowing a ton of walks, you can get away with a lot more.
2005 Mateo had a K rate of 5.30 per 9 and a walk rate of 1.73 per 9. The walk rate is still good, but his K rate had faltered to league average. The only reason he had such a low ERA and such a wide variance between his FIP and ERA was his flyball / homerun rate was below his average (8.3%) and his LOB% was 82.4%. Meanwhile his BABIP was .241, which low, especially for a flyball pitcher.
In a sense, the only reason Mateo wasn’t shelled both in 2003 and 2005 was a low walk rate. The difference is in 2003 Mateo controlled the game more with his strikeouts whereas in 2005 he had to rely more on his defense.
198: It depends. We’ve been talking in general terms and in-house candidates. That’s not quite as bad, is it?
I’m not so sure about Morse as a RH OF/1B/3B backup guy. He’s not hitting nearly as well now. I think AAA is his talent ceiling.
Bloomie plays a passable 2B/SS, and so can fill that hole in a pinch. (I’d stock another middle infielder down in AAA to cover for potential injuries.)
Regardless, developments this season lead me to believe that the place the M’s need to upgrade is the pitching staff. Specifically, the starting rotation. There aren’t really any other glaring holes on the team. The bullpen’s in fine shape and the starting nine (well, ten, ‘cuz we’re talking about a Benuardo platoon) are quite capable. I like that.
If the M’s decided they wanted to free up salary they could try and trade Richie, move Ibanez to DH, and try and find another corner OF. I can see an argument both ways on that one.
Despite reading you post twice, I still see his 2005 season as good…at least as a reliever when you take out that one terrible start. Maybe his 2003 was a little better, but I still think he did well last year.
At least we agree he stinks this year.
Reading my posts and understanding the contents of it are two different things.
Amazing game, a ton of fun to watch in person…
By why the hell was WFB batting second and Doyle /ninth/!
Dave, I just want to agree with you about Randy. I moved to Seattle in 1993 and was reluctant in becoming a Mariner fan. Randy and Griffey were the guys that won me over, and in 1995 and 1996 I started going to almost all of Randy’s starts, just to watch him, because you really felt there was a good chance that something historical could happen. He was that dominant. He could pitch a no-hitter or a perfect game, or strike out 20, or maybe 25, or just be wild and start a brawl. He was FUN, especially for such a dour sonofabich. Most entertaining pitcher I’ve ever seen. I think the apoethesis of his dominance was the Randy/John Kruk All-Star game meeting. It was absurd, but it was awesome.
I also went to all three Seattle playoff games in 1995 against the Yankees (and the subsequent Cleveland games), and you’re right: when Randy started warming up in game five, it was unforgettable. And LOUD. I am the total cliché: I became a lifelong Mariner fan that year. I dig Safeco, but I miss how loud the Kingdome could be.
I should add that I grew up an Angels and Dodgers fan. I remained an Angel fan when I moved up here in 1993 and continued to root for them against the Mariners in 1995. I went to a few regular season games in 1995 against the Angels and went rooting for the Angels, but couldn’t help but enjoy watching such an infectious team chip away at that lead the Angels had. I watched the M’s every day and the Angels only when they played the M’s or were on national TV. To make a long story short, by the time that one game playoff took place, I was rooting for the M’s.
Most of this was due to that crazy, heavy metal-loving, mullet-headed, hillbilly mutant giant that I wanted to hate but wound up loving. He’s a total freak of nature, and I’m grateful to have seen him so many times and would have been thrilled to see him no-hit us tonight. I hope the Yankees tank in the playoffs but I hope Randy thrives and pitches succesfully until he’s 50. I’ll always be a Mariner fan, but I also know first-hand that shit happens and people have to make changes in their lives, and that’s okay. When Randy left, it was his time. I wish he could have stayed, but I’m also just glad he’s still pitching.
202
Your own analysis showed he was effective in not allowing inherited runners to score. He had a nice ERA. So despite all the other stats, he didn’t allow HIS runners to score very often, and didn’t allow OTHER pitchers’ runs to score very often. His batting average against was solid too.
Ok, so it didn’t sway me into thinking he didn’t have a good year. But don’t make the mistake that I didn’t understand it. I appreciate the trouble you went to in writing that long post. It obvioulsy had some useful and interesting information.
#163–Anjou kidding me? I love the Pear, especially the way he becomes more pear-like as the season wears on. He’s the apple of my eye.
The P-I is reporting that the PTBNL in the Broussard/Choo deal is Shawn Nottingham, 21, who was pitching at Inland Empire. He was 5-12 with a 4.17 ERA in 26 starts at IE.
So Link
Since Nottingham isn’t on the Future 40, I’m assuming that this is a good thing, that we didn’t lose anybody we’ll really miss, but I’m sure Dave will check in and let us know about Nottingham.
Oops, sorry, didn’t read the whole thread. This was discussed earlier. My bad, I just got home from the game…
Great posts about memories of Randy as a Mariner — tonight was a great game and I’m glad I was there.
Ichiro running down that ball in center is the way center should be played. Nice snap throw to first by Johjima to get Cano. Some timely hitting – and as was mentioned earlier, taking advantage of Johnson early, as he owned the Mariners pretty much from the 4th on.
I’m also glad to see the Mariners could win without Ibanez and Beltre in the lineup. I’m not saying we should run that squad out there everyday, but it is refreshing and reassuring to see that team do what needed to be done to get the win.
Commendations to the bullpen as well — Sherrill and Mateo held it down so J.J. could come in and lock down the save.
Great game, overall great series. Bring on the Red Sox!
Ok, so it didn’t sway me into thinking he didn’t have a good year. But don’t make the mistake that I didn’t understand it. I appreciate the trouble you went to in writing that long post. It obvioulsy had some useful and interesting information.
*sigh*…The struggle continues…
Well, the M’s couldn’t beat NY’s best, but at least they beat a declining RJ.
And A-Rod whiffed to end the game. Yay.
Now back to reality for the bad news. NY is going to win 95+ games anyway and get into the playoffs for the 11th consecutive year. Our hometown nine will be making reservations for tee times and, if they have any interest, watching the playoffs on TV.
It was a good night to be at the ballpark, though.
Well Snelling is .375/.500/.625 so far. When are we finally gonna admit he’s a bust?
RJ story alert-
I was at that game he pitched (I think it was against the Angels) in his last season as an M, where Shane Monahan made that diving catch in the King Dome’s left field to save two runs, and Johnson wound up winning 2-0. Funny part is that my kid brother and I came over from Spokane for the game. It was his first game in the Dome, and he got a chance to see RJ pitch. I won those tickets on sports radio, so that made it even sweeter. Saw him pitch a lot of other times, and loved it when he took out that full-page ad in the Seattle papers after he was traded, thanking the fans for their support while he was a Mariner.
But the time I mention above was special. My brother called me long distance tonight to talk about the game, and mentioned that game we went to together. It was the first of many (including the 19 inning special against the Red Sox a few years ago, the one that Cameron won with the homer off of Fassero), and it is a special memory.
God, I just *love* baseball.
The only thing better than a Mariners’ win over the Yankees is the reaction of Yankees fans as they gnaw the rug over this loss.
Could Cameron have made that catch?
My initial reaction was no. From where I sat, that ball was a line drive (not a fly ball as reported by Hickey), directly over Ichiro’s head, and required a turn and sprint that Cammy could not have made.
What do you think?
I need to know because I thought I saw God roaming CF last night.
mln, good paste.
This made me laugh:
Ridiculous pitching from a mediocre pitcher + idiotic braindead baserunning = a big f’ing loss.
Whiner + wanker = cutter.
Then this comment has me hysterical:
We could use Arod tonite.
Oh could you?
Ichiro is very good at that last desperate leap to get to a ball beyond his reach while he’s in full sprint. Not a lot of guys can do that. My favourite Ichiro defensive play ever was exactly that sort of play (he ran down a fly ball in right-center, came to a complete stop immediately out of his running leap, and threw the ball over 300′ back the way he came to double off the runner at first).
When Ichiro went back for that ball last night, Ken Singleton said, “I think the Mariners have found their centerfielder.”
and Doyle in the post-game said about his own catch … ‘nah, I think I made it look harder then it was’
I wish I’d heard that Doyle comment, though I can just about imagine it in his aussie drawl.
First home series win over the Yankees since April 7-9, 2000. Amazing.
Doyle looks thinner than I remember him being… back in 2004, I guess it was. His cheeks are a lot less round.
#215 The only thing better than a Mariners’ win ovre the Yankees is the reaction of Yankee fans as they gnaw the rug over this loss.
An even funnier thread — if you don’t mind the gratuitous insults to Washburn — is this one at nyyfans.com.
Someone there, too, said “We need A-Rod” (like he could be depended on to be some kind of late inning savior) before the 9th when he appeared for that lovely little pinch-K to end the game.
Those Yankee fans sure worry a lot for having a team that’ll probably win 95+ games and sew up the division by September 15th…
That’s because they know they’re going to lose in the playoffs.
Great post, Dave, as well as others who shared memories of the Unit.
Just got back from my wknd in Seattle. Tough to get over there and back when you live on the other side of the state. Anyhow, was at this game. Had many of the same feelings ya’ll did all during this thread. Rooted for RJ. Loved Washburn’s intensity. Wow, this is my first in person view of DOYLE. This guy is the real deal. I’d say he’s easily one of the top hitters on the team now. His approach and execution are special to watch. He and Ichiro sparked the team tonight. And without them, Washburn doesn’t win. Ichiro was something special in CF. I was mesmerized by the catch and the ovation he received was well deserved. I was so down on this season and these Mariners. But this night was a memorable night for me. It was also special to see RJ. He looked lifeless in the first..when he dropped the ball. I was like…man this guy doesn’t want to be here. But he sure picked it up after that… he pitched a pretty good game. I sure do miss him. Thanks for the memories RJ.