So Long, Pocket Lint (super exciting dual post!)
An era is offically over in Seattle – Bob Finnigan has written his last story for the Seattle Times. After 20 years covering the team as the beat writer, today is day one of his retirement. As a farewell gift, lets bring the USSM-critique-of-Pocket-Lint column out of retirement.
General manager Bill Bavasi said this week that the Mariners are trying to win each day, a position that is probably predictable and possibly posturing. However, it is that mindset, born of years of being competitive under former manager Lou Piniella, that has brought the current dark and stormy night to the Seattle franchise.
Reference to the good old days under Lou Piniella? Check.
Baseball fortunes run in cycles, and are always — always — based on how good one’s pitching is, unless there is a lack of pitching through the division or league, as there is now.
Ridiculous, untrue cliche about what it takes to win baseball games? Check.
Even with a month to go, it is not hard to see where this year’s failure came from and where the solutions lie.
The root of the rot that ruined this season is found in the Mariners’ — and fans’? — unwillingness to ride the cycle, which can be as short as three years or as long as five.
Here’s a poorly phrased critique of the team’s decision to not go for a full scale rebuilding, but instead to try to win games while adding youth to the roster simultaneously. We made this same critique of the organization – three years ago. It was true then, during Gillick’s last year and Bavasi’s first year, that the team’s core was flawed beyond repair and that the organization needed to face reality and start over. But heading into 2006, that wasn’t the case. His point would have been valid if he had written it in the fall of 2003. Now, it’s just wrong.
The Seattle organization has accomplished some important things. While it is totally lost in the welter of losing, it is building a future around a young bullpen and middle defense, and outfielder Adam Jones stands a chance to be the best player the Mariners have produced in a decade.
Felix Hernandez says hello, Bob. I wouldn’t trade Felix for three Adam Jones’.
In fact, it is because of this building — while trying futile and misguided efforts to win — that Bavasi and manager Mike Hargrove stay in place. While trying to compete daily, as Bavasi said, their watchword is patience.
Futile and misguided efforts to win? What a crock.
Rather than risking fans’ reaction to a downswing, the Mariners tried to buy their way through this natural pause in win production and they have failed. Only the New York Yankees do this well; even the Boston Red Sox have shown this year they cannot with any consistency.
The Atlanta Braves and their 13 consecutive division championships say hello, Bob.
It’s not so much their requirement to avoid a loss each year as the idea that profits — or monies saved like those from moving Eddie Guardado and Jamie Moyer — of one year can’t be set aside for when the time is right.
Hey, look, we agree! He’s totally right – this policy is asanine.
Cynics are clamoring that Mariners CEO Howard Lincoln has finally gotten a team that mirrors his style of organization, tight (uptight?). But credit Lincoln with one huge thing. He understands now that baseball bears risks beyond most other businesses.
Research and development normally produces products that sell. Baseball R&D produces no more than best-guesses that if someone stays healthy they stand a chance of doing the job you paid them for.
While the second paragraph is true, I’m not sure why we have to credit Howard Lincoln for understanding that. Everyone who watches baseball understands that. That’s not a new revelation, and it’s not one that has helped the M’s in any tangible way.
While it is easy to slam the team for paying too much for free agents, and players for earning too much, understand Seattle is deep into a losing mode and as former GM Pat Gillick once succinctly explained, must “pay a premium of $2 million to $3 million a year to attract good players.”
Beliefs like that are why Pat Gillick is no longer an effective general manager. People who believe comments like that don’t deserve to win baseball games.
In Sexson and Beltre, the Mariners thought they were getting glue guys, re-creating the team chemistry, cohesion, camaraderie that Jay Buhner and Edgar Martinez, even Mark McLemore and Stan Javier, brought to the lineup and to the clubhouse.
Actually, they thought they were getting two right-handed power hitters who would help the team score runs. And, though in alternating years, that’s been true of each player for half their time here.
But Sexson and Beltre are both naturally introverted, and despite their team’s desperate need for more from them, have shown no interest or understanding of giving beyond sincerely hard efforts to win each game. They have been distant and/or distracted, self-absorbed, both intensely embarrassed by their own struggles.
This last psyche naturally fed feelings that their inability to produce as expected on the field undercut them to act like leaders. But that is wrong. Buhner, for instance, never lost the raucous upbeat mood he spread around the room.
Teams pay for stature as well as statistics. But even Beltre, as intelligent a fellow as you’ll find on any roster, seems to have no feel for sharing his character.
This is the worst part of sportswriters having access, right here. Finnigan watches Beltre and Sexson not yell and hoot and call team meetings and decides that their lack of leadership is why Joel Pineiro can’t pitch well. It’s stupid, and almost every beat writer in America writes this crap.
Ichiro could be a leader, as shown by his vociferous and spirited leadership of Japan’s team in the World Baseball Classic. But this is impossible because the outfielder, despite six years in Seattle, chooses to remain wrapped in his own way of doing things.
Much of this is admirable, total preparation and focus, and disdain for much of what he sees around him, dismay, maybe even disgust, that he presumably reports back to owner Hiroshi Yamauchi each winter.
Ichiro’s stature as one of the game’s great contact hitters is undercut by the way he approaches the game. His tunnel vision is on getting hits — his idea of how best to help the team — not doing all he can to help.
And now, we rip Ichiro for his lack of leadership. Sure, why not? Clearly he’s been dragging the team down the last six years.
For instance, although he has played center field in Japan, it took him a month to agree to move to center for the Mariners. Meantime, Seattle suffered. Shin-Soo Choo, who may or may not prove to be a sound big-league player, was forced into center field and not right, where he stood his best chance of helping.
Had Ichiro not agreed to move, Chris Snelling, who looks a potential major-league producer, would have as little chance as Choo had. Choo got a measly 11 at-bats, a joke of a tryout, while struggling to play out of position while Ichiro watched and did nothing.
We’ve been calling for Ichiro to move to center for years, so we obviously agree that the M’s are better off with him there than in right field. But to blame Ichiro for the lack of opportunity given to Shin-Soo Choo is ridiculous. Carl Everett got 400 plate appearances as a Mariner DH this year. If the Mariners had any desire to give Choo a legitimate chance to hit major league pitching, the opportunity was clearly there. They chose not to, and Ichiro’s reluctance to move to center field had nothing to do with the team’s decision to play Everett instead of Choo.
Should Hargrove be firmer? First of all, the days of firm managing are far between in the majors and Hargrove reputedly was the subject of some of Ichiro’s comments to Yamauchi last winter, so that may play a part here.
Overall, the manager has an easy rein on his veteran regulars. Hargrove can be faulted for letting them play all they want, which is virtually all the time. As a result, fatigue could have had a role in this recent collapse.
I’m not sure there’s another manager in baseball who would have put up with Carl Everett as his DH for four months while trying to contend. Writing off Grover’s slavish devotion to bad players as part of the new culture of baseball management is just wrong.
Yamauchi, who has paid for the right to be involved, could be too much so, although it is undoubtedly well-intentioned. He was right in recommending catcher Kenji Johjima, although his offense is much more than his defense and game-calling at a position that cries for more balance between the two parts.
And now we get a shot at Kenji Johjima’s defense. Ichiro’s not a leader, Kenji’s not a good game caller – I’m curious what he would have written about Daisuke Matsuzaka, if given the chance. Perhaps Daisuke’s strikeouts would bore the fielders and cause them not to hit? I’m guessing Bob’s not going to be vacationing in Japan anytime soon.
When the Mariners were asked for Ichiro in trades at the deadline, they refused, although their need for a top-of-the-rotation pitcher is far greater than a singles hitter who covers a corner outfield spot well.
Can they trade the owner’s favorite player? It might be best, if they can overcome what is thought to be Yamauchi’s firm stance against losing Ichiro.
Now that Ichiro has agreed to play center, he’s one of the five best players in the game at that position. You can call him a singles hitter if you want, but the ridiculous amount of singles he hits makes him absurdly valuable, and removing Ichiro from the roster isn’t going to make this a better team.
For certain it would help financially, saving about $11 million in a winter when the payroll budget is near-certain to tighten by 10 percent or more.
Because Finnigan has been so accurate with his predictions of Mariner spending in the past…
Attempting trades does not play to Bavasi’s strength. Gillick once admitted he was not a good trader and preferred building with free agents and youth.
Bavasi does not have a good record as a dealer, either. But his forte seems to be what the Mariners most need now, building through development.
Pat Gillick preferred building with youth? How did he write that and not fall out of his chair?
If it comes to trades, it might be easier to move Sexson, a proven longball hitter, although no one is going to take on his full salary. If Seattle could split the difference, with Ben Broussard or Greg Dobbs playing first base, they would save about $7 million.
If the Mariners want to, they’ll be able to move his whole salary this offseason. And nice Greg Dobbs mention there, Bob. Nothing like continuing to hype up terrible players even on your way out the door.
The departures of Moyer, Guardado, Gil Meche (who could also agree to return for less than he might get on the free-agent market), Carl Everett and Pineiro would reduce the payroll by about $25 million.
Some of this money, about $5 million, will go to raises for J.J. Putz, Yuniesky Betancourt, et al. In fact, expect great effort made to get a number of the younger players signed to multi-year contracts this offseason.
Yuniesky Betancourt is under contract through 2008, and is signed for next year at the whopping total of $400,000. So, no, don’t expect the M’s to be tearing up Betancourt’s contract this offseason. He’s one of the biggest bargains in the game.
Club officials are anticipating three openings in the rotation to go with Felix Hernandez and Washburn, and while Jake Woods (whom Hargrove wanted in the rotation months ago) could fill one and maybe Rafael Soriano another, they need a veteran starter who can start on opening day and maybe another for Day 2 as well.
Jake Woods is terrible. Saying that Hargrove wanted him in the rotation months ago is an indictment on Hargrove’s inability to evaluate talent.
Pitching, the deeper the better even in these days when no team has quality depth on the mound, is where success begins.
Tell that to the Houston Astros.
There is solace and considerable hope in the fact that in the bullpen, and middle infield, notable by the standards of even first-place teams, the Mariners are far ahead of where they were this time last year.
Good to see Bob end his career on a note of truth, even if it runs counter to what he just wrote in the previous 1,500 words. I’m not totally sure how “far ahead of where they were…” gets written in the same column as “…the current dark and stormy night…”, but that’s Bob Finnigan for you.
So, with that, we say goodbye to Pocket Lint, the man who got his nickname by being such a tool of the organization that his writings were more often propaganda than journalism. I hope you have a great retirement, and one that lasts forever.
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[Jason says: Dave and I wrote our posts about essentially the same time, unbeknownst to each other, so we decided to run 'em both on one post...]
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As you no doubt heard on the broadcast this weekend, Saturday was Bob Finnigan’s last day on the M’s beat for the Seattle Times after 25 years. On one hand I was surprised he had been here so long, but on the other hand it made sense — I can’t remember him ever not being here.
Interestingly, Finnigan takes some strange parting shots at the M’s on his way out the door. In this column, he bashes Ichiro both for not being a leader, being too focused on getting hits, and for not moving to center earlier. He calls Shin-soo Choo’s 11 at-bat tryout “a joke,” says the M’s finally have a team to match CEO Howard Lincoln’s personality “tight (uptight?)”, and even says ownership “must be knocked for their iron-clad business principles.” On the positive, he closes with the Larry Stone “but they’re better off now than they were this time a year ago” line of thinking.
But he’s not done yet! In this notes piece, he discusses the prospects the M’s got for Jamie Moyer, saying “It might only have been a matter of time before the two pitchers wound up in the Mariners organization since both have Northwest ties.” (Incidentally, Andrew Baldwin took a no-hitter into the seventh for Inland Empire in his M’s system debut last week.)
Honestly, this is more negativity than Finnigan has expressed since we founded the good ship USS Mariner. It’s almost like he’s been saving all of this up for the day he finally stepped aside, no longer worried about whose feelings he might hurt.
Finally, sports editor Cathy Henkel showers Finnigan with praise (“A fond farewell for our own MVP”) in this piece, which mentions that the new beat writer will be announced next month. Smart money’s on Geoff Baker — we’ve already discussed him here and here. Good news in the meantime? Larry Stone will pick up the M’s beat. Woo.
Oh, and one more thing — does anyone else think it’s weird that he’d retire at this point in the season? I mean, another month and he could finish the thing out. Maybe he has somewhere to be, maybe they want to bring in the new guy so he’s not coming in cold next spring… I dunno. Just seems odd to me, not that I’m at all familiar with the inner workings of a MLB beat writer.
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100 Responses to “So Long, Pocket Lint (super exciting dual post!)”
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I have my ol’ “most sportswriters” saw here – it’d be plenty ‘propriate – but I won’t trot it out agin. ‘slikely to bore some of yu.
Re. #1:
Your post reminded me of Bob Finnigan’s infamous shorthand.
tl;dr
[moderator says: what?]
God, I wish this could be tattooed on the back of every beat writer’s left arm.
and I honor Bob’s Never Ending Quest to Throw it against the wall & see if it sticks! with these recent notes from Ringolsby:
Seattle manager Mike Hargrove is in a precarious position. If he’s fired, Dusty Baker’s name has been mentioned, and the Cubs manager is expected to jump at the chance to get back to the West Coast.
the Boston Herald:
Finally, with all the talk of the Seattle Mariners being in the market for a new manager this offseason, consider this: Sox bench coach Brad Mills is a longtime favorite of Mariners general manager Bill Bavasi, who might not necessarily have had his way the last time the Mariners hired a manager. That was after Bob Melvin failed miserably during his one season in Seattle, prompting club ownership to seek a veteran manager, in that case Mike Hargrove.
Another name who could be in the Seattle mix? Bobby Valentine.
and the NY Daily News:
There is, however, still a good chance at least one manager will be fired before the season is over, with Seattle’s Mike Hargrove the most likely candidate. The Mariners are another team for which ownership approved some significant payroll expenditures ($25 million for Richie Sexson and Adrian Beltre combined before last season, another $7.4 million for Jarrod Washburn this past winter) only to get little in return. With a record streak of 20 consecutive division losses, Hargrove sealed his fate. According to sources, there have already been internal discussions about trying to bring Lou Piniella back to Seattle – something “Sweet Lou” is said to be receptive to now that the family issues back home in Tampa that forced him to resign from the Mariners four years ago have been resolved. But now there are rumblings in Seattle that dismayed ownership wants to clean house entirely – with Hargrove, GM Bill Bavasi and longtime team president Chuck Armstrong, Piniella’s biggest champion within the organization, all subject to being let go.
“Pat Gillick preferred building with youth? How did he write that and not fall out of his chair?”
Sure, he used youth to build his team– signed a lot of free agents and used it up by forfeiting draft picks throughout his tenure
You want to sell some season tickets? Bring Lou back.
Of course it wouldn’t hurt to sign Zito and that Japanese pitcher too…
Boston Herald sure is publishing accurate information on the M’s, what with having Melvin here for one year and all.
Didn’t the team win 93 games his first year here, anyway?
I wonder if there is a way to measure a given city’s fan-wisdom vs. another city and how much the quality of sports writing in each city’s newspapers is a factor. All these years of crappy writing still has people calling for Lou Piniella to return. And, I’m not really picking on Matthew’s comment (he’s probably right that tickets would be sold but only because those silly media types believed there was some sort of magic in Piniella).
Hey Dave, have you ever considered a carerr in writing? I know you are kinda writing a lot these days but I’m talking about professionally. Your style is so easy to follow compared to many these days.
M’s under Melvin:
2003: 93-69
2004: 63-99
If anything, it felt like longer than two years…
tl;dr would stand for Too Long; Didn’t Read.
Usually more funny when used to reply to a 3 word sentence. Here at USSM I’m quite sure it’ll lead to a deleted post in the future.
Finnigan has the coolest shorthand ever. He was pretty bad, but I’ll miss him.
I actually almost deleted the “tl;dr” post, thinking it was a mis-post or something. I guess I’m glad I didn’t?
> Gil Meche (who could also agree to return for less than he might get on the free-agent market)
Sure, he could. Why would he?
No kidding, LB. Somebody’s going to give him a crazy three-year, $25M deal. I just hope it’s not us.
Bye, Pocket Lint. Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.
Am I paranoid to sense that the groundwork is being laid in columns like this for rationalizing why Ichiro will be in pinstripes next year? That bit about his reporting back to the owner in Japan almost reads like 40s anti-Jap propaganda. I could envision posters up in the locker room advising the other Mariners to watch what they say around that sneaky traitorous backstabber…
Ichiro isn’t going to the Yankees in 2007 so long as they have Matsui, Damon, Abreu, and Sheffield under contract. Even if they dump Sheffield, they still have good enough outfield that they don’t need Ichiro.
If Ichiro leaves the M’s in 2007, it will be in a trade deadline deal. I expect they will hand Ichiro a key to Howard Lincoln’s personal money-filled swimming pool to keep him here.
Wow. Spiezio has lost a lot of weight. (He’s PH’ing in the Card-Cubs game.)
um. every one on the team knows Ichiro pays a courtesy call to Mr Yamauchi each winter. I imagine that Joh may be invited to go thank Mr Yamauchi for giving him a job, too, this off-season.
Hell, I’d pay a courtesy call on Mr. Yamauchi to say ‘thank you’ for his sponsoring a team in Seattle for me to follow. I think we need to have a real Japan Appreciation Day at Safeco where 40,000 people wave the little red Rising Sun flags and bow to the players and owners — it might seem silly, but I bet that we’d have our pick of Japanese players from the NBL the next year or so and Boras be damned.
Ichiro never played center in Japan regularly either. That job went to So Taguchi.
If he did, why would Oh put him RF too?
18
Isn’t Sheffield pegged to play first for the Yanks once he returns?
There’s room, though Ichiro isn’t going anywhere unless he wants out.
#22: There’s room, though Ichiro isn’t going anywhere unless he wants out.
Sheffield put on a first baseman’s mitt and expressed a willingness to play 1B. Maybe he took some infield practice.
My speculation is that he’s posturing, trying to get his 2007 option picked up (which was the subject of some drama in spring training this year), but so what? If the NYY starting outfield consists of Matsui, Damon and Abreau, where do you think there’s room for Ichiro to play?
[roster construction posts are more annoying than Pocket Lint]
but that must be half of AK’s ouevre right there. Let him dream.
Re #25: even setting the merits of roster-construction posts completely aside, such a thing is way off topic in this thread.
Ichiro could be a leader, as shown by his vociferous and spirited leadership of Japan’s team in the World Baseball Classic. But this is impossible because the outfielder, despite six years in Seattle, chooses to remain wrapped in his own way of doing things.
Never mind the biggest problem of all: the language barrier. Ichiro has learned considerable English in his time here, but IIRC he still has a ways to go before he can be a fluent communicator, let alone be a vocal leader for a Major League Baseball team.
Never mind the biggest problem of all: the language barrier. Ichiro has learned considerable English in his time here, but IIRC he still has a ways to go before he can be a fluent communicator, let alone be a vocal leader for a Major League Baseball team.
Which is, I think, much different from other foreign players…who generally speak Spanish, and can find a number of other Spanish speakers on a team.
And folks forget the non-verbals and the cultural baggage—for all anyone knows, Ichiro could be punching the buttons, but no one’s responding. How can he lead, if no one responds to his cues?
“[R]oster construction posts…”
I call it a trade proposal; you call it roster construction.
“[T]hat must be half of AK’s ouevre (sic) right there. Let him dream.”
Well, I hate to break it to you, but there’s a lot more substance within my writing than just trade proposals and roster construction. All in all, I’m a well-rounded, multi-faceted, and flat-out versatile artist in the print medium.
At any rate, though, the following is paraphrased version of an on-topic comment — yeah, amazingly enough, I occassionaly write relevant material — that was included within my delted post:
I’m irritated with the fact that Bob Finnigan’s editors at the Seattle Times allowed him to publish fallacious articles regarding players’ salaries. It’s disreputably poor journalism on their part.
Anyway, with everything considered, I can hijack a thread better than any terrorist can skyjack an airplane—there’s no denyin’ it!*
*If my humor is in bad taste, then so be it.
I can hijack a thread better than any terrorist can skyjack an airplane–there’s no denyin’ it!*
*If my humor is in bad taste, then so be it.
I’m not one to jump on people for political correctness (I have fun offending all kinds of people), but comparing writing about baseball to terrorist attacks seems especialy tacky.
does anyone else think it’s weird that he’d retire at this point in the season?
I was at the game Saturday and heard it was Finnigan’s last day covering the Mariners and thought “how bizzare!” I’m not so surprised that he didn’t finish the season, but that he’d quit in the middle of a month, in the middle of a series in the middle of the homestand. At least hang around for the Angels series.
Of course, the sooner, the better, so I don’t really care WHY he’s leaving now.
Trade proposals are a type of roster-construction post, AK. And imho, you overrate yourself. I do, however, agree that the Seattle Times has allowed Pocket Lint to get away with an awful lot of poor and questionable work, and that it doesn’t reflect well on them.
As for the timing — I have to wonder if something funky’s going on, and if maybe his retirement isn’t quite as voluntary as everyone’s saying. I’d think if he’d just cleared 65, or something like that, that it would have been mentioned.
Back to Pocket Lint…
In his farewell address, is he up to his usual poor standards on payroll data?
> Some of this money, about $5 million, will go to raises for J.J. Putz, Yuniesky Betancourt, et al. Some of this money, about $5 million, will go to raises for J.J. Putz, Yuniesky Betancourt, et al. In fact, expect great effort made to get a number of the younger players signed to multi-year contracts this offseason.
Well, if http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com is to be believed (and I have more faith in it than I do in Finnegan), Yuniesky Betancourt is already signed to a deal through 2008, and he can expect a raise of $50,000 next year.
Putz is arb-eligible for the first time, and K-Rod is about the closest comp that comes to mind: he signed a 1-year deal with the Angels for $3.775m, avoiding arbitration. K-Rod, however, logged 45 of 50 possible saves in 2005, and Putz will be hard-pressed to break 40. Arbitrators loves saves even more than managers like Hargrove, so I wouldn’t expect Putz to get a $4m deal from an arbitrator if it the case went to one.
What other “younger players” is he talking about? Who is “et al”?
Jose Lopez is not arb-eligible this offseason, and neither is Rene Rivera. I guess Doyle is, although I don’t know what an arbitrator could be expected to award to a player who’s spent so much time on the DL during his major league service.
All of them are nice players, but none of them are Grady Sizemore or Nomar Garciaparra. If we’re buying out any of these guys’ free agency years so soon, I don’t see why.
As usual, it doesn’t add up.
“[Y]ou overrate yourself.”
The faux arrogance within my posts is a part of my shtick. In all reality, I think of myself as an above-average, decent writer.
“Well, if http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/ is to be believed…”
Well, for whatever it’s worth to y’all, I use http://russells.freeshell.org/ddollars/ for information regarding players’ salaries.
Seemingly unbeknown to Bob Finnigan, however, Ben Broussard, J.J. Putz, Chris Snelling, and Rafael Soriano are all eligible for arbitration during the upcoming off-season. Yuniesky Betancourt, conversely, will earn $400,000 in 2007 and is tentatively set to earn $450,000 in 2008.
I, too, wouldn’t be shocked if Finnigan was forced into retirement by his superiors at the Seattle Times. In any case, though, I’m just glad that Finnigan is no longer employed by a media outlet in the Seattle-Tacoma market.
Well, I hate to break it to you, but there’s a lot more substance within my writing than just trade proposals and roster construction.
Yeah. There’s your “Bavasi must go” shtick, too.
The M’s are a better team this year then last year.
The Settle Times is a better newspaper now then it was a week ago.
I was at the game today. There was the play were Raul was caught off base and Sexson was caught for a forced out. The inning was over. Raul was pissed. Sexson must have tried to say something supportive to Raul. It didn’t help. Raul walked over to the umpires to continue talking to the umpires. A moment later Ichiro came over, handed Raul his glove, smiled and said something. Maybe it was “STFU”, I don’t know. However, Raul replied to Ichiro and took his position.
Maybe that’s not club house leadership. Maybe it is. All I know is that I’m glad Finnigan is gone, and from what I have seen this team (the vast majority of the time) is trying to help each other out.
#20, If the M’s ever host that a night like that I will be sure to show up. I love this team’s desire to find good players anywhere in the world. Not just going for gritty local white boys who should be selling propane and propane assures.
Re. #35:
I’m not Logan of Mariners Revolution; on the other hand, I’m not Jason A. Churchill of Prospect Insider.
Anyway, unlike Seattle Mariners field manager Mike Hargrove, I don’t think that M’s general manager Bill Bavasi should be immediately fired. If nothing else, Bavasi has rebuilt the M’s farm system; it had been depleted during the reign of former M’s general manager Pat Gillick.
Yet, that notwithstanding, Bavasi has an abysmal track record when it comes to signing free agents. Back in Novemeber of 1998, Bavasi’s signing of Mo Vaughn to a six-year, $80 million contract was one of the worst moves ever made by a front office executive in Major League Baseball history.
Furthermore, Bavasi has made several bad free-agent signings throughout his tenure as general manager of the M’s; Shigetoshi Hasegawa, Scott Spiezio, Rich Aurilia, Richie Sexson, Calvin “Pokey” Reese, Aaron Sele, Jeff Nelson, Jarrod Washburn, Roberto Petagine, Matt Lawton, and, of course, Carl Everett are on that list.
Although Bavasi’s 33 months with the M’s have been during a horrible era for the franchise, he’s nevertheless done a mediocre job overall; ergo, he deserves one more year to improve the ballclub and turn it into a playoff-caliber team.
How were Petagine and Lawton bad signings? They made what, like $900,000 combined?
And Richie Sexson sure had a good year last year. And even though his BA is about 30 points lower, he’s still hitting homers and driving in runs.
How were Petagine and Lawton bad signings? They made what, like $900,000 combined?
Folks should define “bad signings.” Wouldn’t call either Pegine or Lawton bad signings–it’s more a reflection on Hargrove not using them.
And I’m not sure that either Sele or Nelson, bad as they were, were “bad signings”, in the fact that signing them averted signing equally bad pitchers for more money and years, which would block the emergence of better pitchers in the minors.
Washburn and Everett? Well, have at it….
Re. #39:
Matt Lawton ($400,000) and Roberto Petagine ($450,000) blocked Joe Borchard and Shin-Soo Choo, respectively; thus, they were both bad signings.
Because Joe Borchard was on the opening day roster rather than Lawton — who, at that moment in time, was serving a 10-day suspension for steroid usage — there was no legitimate reason for the Seattle Mariners to have originally signed Lawton. On a similar note, Choo should’ve made the team at the beginning of the season instead of Petagine, who seemingly made the 25-man roster solely due to the fact that Chris Snelling was coming back from off-season knee surgery and was on the 15-day disabled list.
Obviously, neither Borchard nor Choo are that good of players; however, each of them would’ve been cheaper, more effective options off of the bench than either Lawton or Petagine. As it is, though, Borchard, Lawton, and Petagine have all since been designated for assignment by the M’s, while Choo has been traded elsewhere; therefore, it’s a moot point.
Matt Lawton ($400,000) and Roberto Petagine ($450,000) blocked Joe Borchard and Shin-Soo Choo, respectively; thus, they were both bad signings.
How can you block players who were never seriously going to play for us? Choo had no where in this system to go and Borchard was what we had to take for Thornton. Borchard has proven this year he has no business playing on a ML team and Choo was traded for something we needed.
Besides, a 400k and 450k veteran duo bench players blocked two 325k inexperienced rookies. Big. Fat. Hairy. Deal. We coulda saved 300k? Someone HANG Bavasi!
Re. #42:
Did you read my whole post?
I agree with you that Joe Borchard is not a productive Major League player; also, I agree with you that the trade of Shin-Soo Choo to the Cleveland Indians for Ben Broussard was an absolute steal of a deal for the Seattle Mariners.
Did you read my whole post?
Of course. I just didn’t want to debate every single point you made. The “cheaper” and “blockage” was what I was concerned about with the “cheaper” being minute and the “blockage” being bull. But if you wish, I’ll address the rest.
Because Joe Borchard was on the opening day roster rather than Lawton — who, at that moment in time, was serving a 10-day suspension for steroid usage — there was no legitimate reason for the Seattle Mariners to have originally signed Lawton.
I don’t see how you reached that conclusion. Lawton was signed to give him a second chance after a particularly damning admission of steroid use. Besides, Lawton was signed to the team before Matt Thornton was traded to Chicago for Borchard. So what you said was that the Mariners shouldn’t have signed Lawton at all because in the end they got Borchard, nevermind that they had no clue they were goin to do so?
On a similar note, Choo should’ve made the team at the beginning of the season instead of Petagine, who seemingly made the 25-man roster solely due to the fact that Chris Snelling was coming back from off-season knee surgery and was on the 15-day disabled list.
This is partially true. Doyle was not going to make the squad out of the gate, but Petagine wasn’t just around to cover his absence. Petagine performed quite well in spring training and convinced everyone he could produce off the bench for the M’s. Choo had not proven he was capable of doing so, nor has he ever.
If anything, it felt like longer than two years…
You can say that again… And again… And again…
Matt Lawton ($400,000) and Roberto Petagine ($450,000) blocked Joe Borchard and Shin-Soo Choo, respectively; thus, they were both bad signings.
The former two blocked the latter two by having a combined whopping 61 PAs?
Seriously, Lawton wasn’t happy that he wasn’t getting to play, and I remember a lot of people were complaining that Petagine wasn’t being given much of a chance (where he would have been better than Everett in many [all?] opportunties).
If they were bad signings it was because they weren’t used sufficiently. They themselves weren’t blocking anyone.
Remember when this thread was about the futility pocket lint, instead of
bitching about this and that players’ salary and rampant rosterbatory listings? Hows the traffic in Idaho?
Pocket Lint shows how destructive misinformation can be. Did anyone ever find out if he was paid by the M’s, or, to put it another way, whether the M’s influenced his writing?
#48– nah, I think it was more a case of propinquity. That, or the Stockholm Syndrome.
This is quite related, but I just thought it was interesting to see USSM mentioned on wiki in regards to doyle
.
“At a Mariner fan blog called USS Mariner, Chris Snelling has been dubbed “Doyle” (his middle name) in hopes of driving off the injury curse that has plagued him.”
Finnigan seems to have taken it personally that Beltre, Sexson, and perhaps Ichiro apparently do not want to be his “friends” like Griffey and Buhner were; ergo, the team is losing. Good riddance.
Good call firova. Beltre and Sexson probably didn’t give Finnigan their cell phone numbers like Griffey and Buhner, so as a result there’s no showering of praise.
49 – rdf!
Finnigan is not unique in slamming Ichiro, as shown by Thiel’s column this morning:
But as it has for the past five seasons in Seattle, it starts with Ichiro.
Perhaps he is seeing for the first time how taking one for the team, in this case leaving his comfort zone, has a salutary effect on his mates in ways he did not imagine.
#18. Ichiro isn’t going to the Yankees in 2007 so long as they have Matsui, Damon, Abreu, and Sheffield under contract. Even if they dump Sheffield, they still have good enough outfield that they don’t need Ichiro.
Sometimes I think “need” has nothing to do with what the Yankees acquire.
There’s absolutely nothing keeping them from trading Johnny Damon (unless he has the Sacred NTC) any time after this season…and they’d sure like to replace Johnny Damon’s noodle arm with Ichiro’s.
Gawd knows they have enough other thunder in the lineup that a 200+ singles-hitter wouldn’t “hurt” their chances of steamrolling other teams, as usual.
Ichiro’s mystique and habits would just drive the Yankee faithful NUTS, though. They’re already foaming at the mouth and polarizing attitudes over ARod’s fragile psyche, and HE’S an open book.
How did Finny get the name “Pocket Lint”?
Just curious.
It’s in the post.
So, with that, we say goodbye to Pocket Lint, the man who got his nickname by being such a tool of the organization that his writings were more often propaganda than journalism. I hope you have a great retirement, and one that lasts forever.
To explicate the nickname, though: he was so deep in the pockets of M’s ownership, he might as well have been pocket lint.
Duh.
Me not so smart.
If the 401K dries up, he could always take up Jim Street’s old gig.
As far as the timing of his departure, couldn’t this just be when he is eligible to retire? Based on years of service or whatever?
I can’t really see the Yanks replacing Damon with Ichiro. Damon is highly-visible and well liked, and he also hits doubles and HRs; the Yankee faithful don’t really understand singles (though they do understand records: if Ichiro had broken Sisler’s record while in pinstripes we would have never stopped hearing about it). Plus Damon was a prize wrested from the Red Sox, and his clean-shaven presence in the Stadium is an continued spit in the eye of Fenway. I don’t think The Boss would value Ichiro as highly as he (over)values Damon; afterall, they put up with Bernie Williams’ arm for years. Besides, they already have the Japanese market/demographic covered via Matsui.
If Ichiro ever becomes freely available (vs resigning with the M’s without testing the FA market) I’d be more worried about one of the California teams.
As far as the timing of his departure, couldn’t this just be when he is eligible to retire? Based on years of service or whatever?
Or, more conspiratorily, the Times found out Finnegan WAS receiving unde influence from the Ms and gave him the gracious way out…
We’ve known Finnigan was retiring for like 8 months. They’ve kept pushing it back – there’s no conspiracy, and he’s not getting pushed out the door.
Yankees fans often say to me of Ichiro “he’d look good in pinstripes”.
That said, if Ichiro ever leaves Seattle, I think he’ll head back to Japan.
well, Yankee fans think anyone would look good in pinstripes
I’m curious, if Hargrove wanted Woods in the rotation three months ago, why wasn’t Woods in the rotation? Is Al Davis secretly the Mariner’s owner also?
65 – What is really tragic about that Onion piece is that a full 40% of the picture came true. Scenarios so absurd as to be satirical and the Yanks were well on their way to achieving them. A-Rod and RJ.
66 – Huh?
Goodbye, Finnigan, you weird, misinformed sitcom of a sportswriter.
Willie Bloomquist in pinstripes!
#66 IdahoFan said:
“I’m curious, if Hargrove wanted Woods in the rotation three months ago, why wasn’t Woods in the rotation? Is Al Davis secretly the Mariner’s owner also?”
If it’s true, then it was probably Bavasi (or someone higher up) telling Hargrove that Pineiro needed to stay in the rotation so that he’d have value at the trading deadline. Any idiot could have told them that there was little chance of Pineiro pitching well enough for them to swing a deal, but as usual, they were unreasonably optimistic.
Moyer’s luck has returned to Marineresque proportions. In the bottom of the 3rd a dink, an error, some interference, a fielder’s choice, an infield single that somehow scores both the runner on 3rd and the slow catcher from 2nd (???), a bizarro call at 3rd, etc etc etc. So, 6 runs later …
sigh. here. Charlie Manuel also got ejected in the 3rd. I imagine he used some folksy ‘baseball language’ when it happened.
Damned by faint praise; Pocket Lint indeed. That’s some fancy footwork by hero-scribe Stone.
72. Isn’t that the truth? When “rapport” is valued above everything else, not much journalism is going to get done. Easy to cross that line from “rapporter” to “sycophant.”
#21 – Ichiro played center most of his first full-time seasons, as I recall, with a good-glove, nothing-special guy named Motonishi in center for most of Ichi’s second big season.
Yoshitomo Tani took over center from his rookie year, with Ichiro set in right.
Soh Taguchi spent almost all of his time in left, except for a weird year when he played a lot of second base.
I read that stinker of a swan song column from Bob Fawnnigan, just to see what burden was being lifted from mine eyes. Apart from praising to the skies Howie and Bavasi for their vision in ‘putting the club on a sound footing,’ he then lays the blame for the tames floptastic ways this year on “Selfish” Suzuki, and stabs Ichiro in the back with a poison pen on the way out, trying to promote some kind of dump-trade. Ickkksville. Obviously Bob has it in for Ichiro; probably tried to to an interview and got blown off as a clump of mealy-mouthed turkey manure, and bears a grudge. So long, Finny, and don’t let the screen doon hit yah in the butt on the way along. You won’t be missed or even remembered ’cause total shills leave no recognizable fingerprints.
65. I agree and wish that Pocket Lint had the sportswriting skills of The Onion.
Ichiro may _decide_ to play elsewhere at some point, although I’d lay no money on it. He won’t be traded in my view, unless he initiates it. Ever. Period.
How very Finnigan to say Ichiro is not only a bad teammate and a poor leader, but also a whiny third-grade tattletale who runs to the teacher after school to tell on the other kids. And I love the “presumably” — it’s also very Finnigan to write something while having no idea whether or not it’s true. But, hey, let’s say it anyway. Why not? It’s not like the copy editors will ever red-flag it, right?
Bob, as a human being and a journalist, you are pure excrement.
Great post. I’d like to add that one of Finnegan’s worst attributes, in my opinion, is that he’s boring as hell, like almost all Seattle sports writers.
News flash: every city in America has sportswriters even duller than Finnegan.
another news flash– Mateo out for the season after a free weight drops on his non-pitching hand. No word on who did the dropping
I’m sad to see Finnigan go. I liked his articles a lot, especially compared to Stone or Kelley.
msb – Seriously??
Sweet jeebies, Mateo out with a broken left hand
I bet Hargrove will still try calling the bullpen to get Mateo warmed up.
I read this article this morning and thought about it all day. I decided to post because I like this site, it is quality and thoughtful. This piece does you no credit and does not add to the Mariners discussion. Sorry, just my view.
Presumably someone’s considered writing a letter to the Times with some of these objections.
85 – “Sorry, just my view.”
A rather empty view without any rationale behind it.
The post and the thread has pages and pages of explanation and support.
I’m trying to figure out what bothered you about it.
Finnigan was an embarrassment to both the press and the sport.
You want rationale. Fine. It’s the same shit in this country over and over again. Don’t like a guy, call him names. Was he a good writer? I don’t know, I’ll take your word for it that he wasn’t but why do the name calling crap. Internet and blogs allow rude behavior because you never face the person. It’s sad. We see it with ball players and managers. If they are bad, fire them but respect the human being. But why call him names. He probably is a decent guy and a good family man and husband. Is Finnegin a shit? I’ll bet not. He was called that here today.
Actually, I know him credible people who know him personally, and he is a shit.
Eleven11 — My first reaction to this post and a lot of the comments was the same as yours — that it’s lousy form to dump on a guy upon his retirement. But then I read his actual article and it — like a lot of what Finnigan wrote — not only showed his usual lack of understanding of the game of baseball, but it is petty, small-minded, and personal in some of its references. Like the Ichiro stuff. Given that, I don’t feel bad for Finnigan.
I agree with you to a point — I hate the nastiness of the Internet. But Finnigan’s writing is nasty, and I think he deserves it.
Then maybe it’s just me. I tire of this stuff in politics and other discussions. I like this site because it talks Mariners and baseball. I am not a stat guy but love reading the information and views of guys that are. When it sinks to the levels of the other sites where posters just abuse whoever they don’t like, it bothers me. Maybe this wasn’t that bad but it did not sit right. I don’t know him and don’t care. He was a newpaper writer, so was my father. Sensitive I guess.
91 – Fair enough. I think, in the case of Finnigan, he has done enough hachet jobs in his time to take a well-deserved one on the chin.
But your larger point is noted.
I generally avoid personal remarks; for exceptional people, I make exceptions. I’m wholly unimpressed with most of the beat writers and sportscasters in the Ms univers—but Finny was, ahh, exceptional. I have less than no respect for him as a journalist, and little for him as a person, and I’m only too glad he’s not part of my universe any longer. And that disdain, he’s earned.
Hitting a ton of singles does not give a player an exemption from criticism.
Why don’t those who think Finnigan isn’t a nice person, share why they think he is nasty? Accountability and responsibility, central to community, would help to bring about a kinder Internet.
Eleven11 — this really isn’t a matter of “posters just abus[ing] whoever they don’t like.” In the first place, aside from Jim Thomsen’s comment — and remember, Jim’s also a member of the Seattle-area sports media, a colleague of Finnigan’s; he has a perspective on the man none of us have — this isn’t a personal attack on the man, it’s a critique of his work. Yes, it’s a harsh and pointed critique; it’s also a critique which is amply supported by evidence, and which is (imho) completely deserved. In the second place, again excepting Jim Thomsen, the dislike of Pocket Lint is not personal but is completely a response to his body of (wretched) work.
Hitting a ton of singles does not give a player an exemption from criticism.
Sure it does…if he makes no outs. Or if his batting average is .500, or….
Hitting a ton of singles does not give a player an exemption from criticism.
Sure it does…if he makes no outs. Or if his batting average is .500, or….
And if hitting a ton of singles does not give a player an exemption from criticism, then neither should his retirement…
Finnegan wrote a column 2 months ago speculating on which FA starting pitchers the M’s might make a run at in the offseason. One of the first names he threw out there was Kelvim Escobar. I wrote him an email which included a link to an espn.com story about Escobar signing a 3-year extension with the Angels about a month earlier. What’s the old saying? Never let facts get in the way of a good story?
He sent me back a very terse, sarcastic reply about how he was grateful that I “took the time to help him with his job.”
Good riddance. He won’t be missed.
Hitting a ton of singles also does not exempt a person from heart disease, penguins from the laws of biology, and the combining of peanut butter, honey and bread from producing a nice sandwich.
What is your point, gwangung?