Game 138, Mariners at Tigers
Bonderman vs Woods, 4:05 pm.
Jeremy Bonderman has two knockout pitches, throws a fastball with movement, and has harnessed his command this year while turning into one of the elite pitchers in the game. His reputation hasn’t yet caught up with his abilities, but he’s easily capable of winning the Cy Young award next year. There are basically no flaws in his game.
Jake Woods, on the other, is pretty lousy.
And then, there’s the line-up:
1. Ichiro, CF
2. Snelling, RF (/end normalcy)
3. Betancourt, SS – No, I’m not kidding.
4. Ibanez, LF
5. Sexson, 1B
6. Broussard, DH
7. Johjima, C
8. Beltre, 3B
9. Lopez, 2B
Adrian Beltre is, apparently, getting punished for his ridiculously awful approach at the plate yesterday where he was even swinging at the throws back to the mound from the catcher. It was ugly to watch, but lets be real, he had about 40 of those games in April and May. And really, hitting Betancourt third, I mean, I don’t know what to say.
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Jeremy Bonderman is really a comeback player in that he struggled a lot last year and has really improved this year.
No, not really. His FIP last year was 3.92, and his xFIP was 4.10. That’s nothing close to struggling.
He’s definitely improved, as he’s upped his strikeout rate, and he’s benefited from a lower HR rate, but it was an incremental improvement and nothing like a comeback. He went from good to great.
Yes, but Jake Woods’ possesses a better winning percentage and ERA. I bet Bonderman couldn’t sleep last night thinking about the stiff opposition he would face today.
Over/Under on how many times Rizzs mentions that Bonderman is from Kennewick: 10
4. 8.
Betancourt batting third?
Right, because batting fourth is some sort of skill, right, so you can’t just move everyone up one spot in the order.
Seriously, I think most teams would benefit if they moved their #2 hitter to the #8 spot and just moved 3-7 up one place each. Why is it they insist on pushing their good hitters down one place to make room for one of the weakest hitters on the team batting second?
Now clearly Doyle isn’t one of the weakest hitters on the team, but batting a competent hitter second is clearly anomalous in baseball.
#4 – Actually it’s Pasco, but I would say 9 is about right, once per inning while he’s pitching, once more at the end, and then maybe 1 more thrown in somewhere for good measure.
re: 4
How many times will Rizzs mention that Bonderman skipped his senior year of high school?
It was ugly to watch, but lets be real, he had about 40 of those games in April and May.
Exactly, it’s not like we gained any new information yesterday.
BONDERMAN – Isn’t he the MONEYBALL poster boy? The guy who was selected in the first round, a selection that caused Billy Beane to go ballistic (the chair-throwing incident)?
Are you sure Hargrove will last the rest of the season? There are moves I/we don’t agree with and then there’s gross incompetence. And Betancourt 3rd, ahead of Ibanez, Sexson, Johjima, and Broussard, is the latter.
Mike Hargrove should never manage a day again in major league baseball after this season.
Wikipedia on Bonderman
That lineup seems like a mistake… Beltre and Yuni swapped from their normal places, with the only explanation being Beltre had a horrible game the other day. Can’t wait to here Hargrove’s explanation, though, if it’s true
If Woods is out by his standard 5th inning and Hargrove goes to O’Flaherty, now what’s the over/under between Walla Walla and Pasco from Ricky? Hmm? 25
#14, I dunno, but I’m sure we’d hear “Eastern Washington duel” or something similar at least several times. E Wa residents would surely rejoice
I know Beltre looked horrible yesterday, but isn’t it harsh to drop him after an atrocious game after keeping Sexson at 4 or 5 all year when he was terrible for the first four months?
I’m with #13, this lineup has to be a mistake, or typo, right?
Or is Grover just screwing around now, since he knows he’s out of a job once the season ends?
17 – The thing is, he has Jose batting 9th, so it’s not just AB and Jose that are in different spots. This has got to be the most insane lineup in history if thats who we run out there.
With the way Jose has been hitting, that almost makes sense. But the Beltre, Betancourt part sure doesn’t…
Having WFB in the lineup batting third would make it worse.
#13 Since the game hasn’t started, I don’t feel I’m breaking my pledge to avoid any comments or viewing of “live” Hardgroan-managed games with this explanation:
Yuni is batting second because his “manager” believes he can get the ball on the ground and get out of the inning without scoring.
If Hargrove is that unhappy with Beltre’s approach yesterday, why doesn’t he just sit Beltre for a couple of games? I don’t know what is to be gained by constructing a lineup using a magic 8 ball.
Ahh…it’s working already. Grover is a genius.
Yuni is batting third #21.
UGH!
Hey, Yuni has a .333 BA vs Bonderman, and a .667 OPS — he’s 1 for 3. Maybe Hargrove got no further than the BA….
Also, in small samplesize theater
Well if Beltre was hitting Ibanez would have had a FC instead of a GIDP.
And right on cue, Betancourt singles and Raul hits into a DP to end the inning:-)
I read a lot of materials just prior to this season that led me to think that a) managers don’t make much of a difference, and b) lineups don’t affect a team’s success much over the course of a year. And then this year came along with Hargrove and his “platoon” fixations, “keep Willie sharp” fixation, “leave veterans in there because they’re veterans” fixations, “sticking with Carl Everett” fixation, etc. Don’t even get me started on the new “platooning of Doyle” fixation. And you have to wonder how much of this crazy shit has cost us games. I have to think this team could have performed significantly better this year with an average manager-maybe even still a playoff contender at this point. Hargrove really takes the cake. He’s done nothing but undermine the talent on this team all year. I can’t believe he hasn’t been canned.
Clearly, Raul is the problem. As much as I like Doyle in the #2 hole, perhaps he should be hitting cleanup until everybody else figures out how to take pitches?
You’d think I would have learned… there was the ugly 3 game series with Minnesota, the assertion that Julio Mateo could get us a groundball, the constant WFB love… but I continued to ask myself…
“Michael Dudley Hargrove can’t possibly be this stupid, can he?”
never again… never again
gonna be a long game if Woods keeps throwing like he is!
Are we sure that’s not a lineup posting error?
Not according to Gameday.
Damn. Cruceta pitched yesterday. Are the n00bs in Detroit yet? There’s got to be a better pitcher Hargrove could throw out there…
Over under on turning this game off…
Ouch! Who’s in long relief now, Joel?
37. See #36. That will clinch it for me lol.
It’s such a nice thing to see a well managed team…
Not talking about the Mariners…
How many walks did the Ms have in 2001? I remember they had a very patient team… led the league in pitches per AB, if I remember correctly.
40. That’s because they had Olerud and Maritnez and a different hitting coach.
I honestly can’t believe my eyes. I’m stunned speechless. How does this man still have a job?
I just do not understand why all of you hate Grover. He has set up the third inning perfectly for this game…Beltre, Lopez, Ichiro Snelling…what could be better??
Mariners had 614 walks in 2001. Far cry from this team.
41. Don’t forget Mclemore. I think he was in the top 10 that year of most pitches per AB.
These guys look terrible.
Atleast Joh did not ground out
the j. geils band. yikes.
Long live Jose Canseco!
44. keep up the good work
SOMEONE IS READING THIS BLOG!
Whoa.
Now if only the announcers would start echoing our feelings about our “manager.”
I don’t think Ichiro likes playing CF in this stadium lol
So far (85% of the season) Mariners have 334 walks, opponents have walked 468 times against them.
So if I counted correctly…
Doyle has seen 9 pitches in 2 ab’s
Rest of team has seen 25 pitches in 9 ab’s
Not surprising, but…
I can’t help but try to imagine how Mike Cameron would go all out for this hits above and past Ichiro… all out, slamming into the wall and the ground, sprinting like a train ready to jump off it’s tracks. Woooh… STEEEEEELLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAA~!
56. more like 11 and 24
Thanks. Some how, this game does not have my complete attention.
could they take some pitches, or are Bonderman’s strikes so striking that there is no chance to take a pitch or two?
why does Rizzs feel he has to say Ivan “Pudge” Rodriguez?
and why does he tell the Bonderman draft story but resist calling Sean Casey ‘The Mayor’?
My brain hurts already.
Please do not make me try to think like Rizzs
60: Maybe because Ivan once called him Rick “Pudge” Rizzs.
oh, in the pregame Hargrove explained that he felt that by walking Pudge, he had the prefect situation with Washburn pitching. He did not explain why a fly-ball pitcher there was the perfect situation.
Way to nickle and dime ‘em, boys!
“Diamond Dry” — what’s that, really expensive kitty litter?
That’s because they had Olerud and Maritnez and a different hitting coach.
hmm, the years Gerald Perry was the hitting coach they did have a lot of walks… Oakland has always been pretty patient, so it’s hard to tell what effect he might have there.
“Diamond Dry†— what’s that, really expensive kitty litter?
huh. it’s ‘corn cob granules’.
Brain Delay!
Rain delay?
check out bert blyleven youtube
69. That is hilarious.
“Oh, were live? I didn’t know that…”
playing ball at 6:35pm/pdt
your new pitchers will be pineiro & andrew miller
Thought to consider, Grover is not about to be fired. Bavasi and Grover both played the “Young Team learning ” card this past week. I still think that they like Grover despite all else. I hope I am wrong but, I have this bad feeling.
Just remember everybody, the guy pitching now, we could have had him.
ok, Jake Woods vs Jeremy Bonderman was sad, but Joel Pineiro vs Andrew Miller….
That slider was not too bad, says Betancourt.
Betancourt was Miller’s first Major League Strikeout.
This is ironic.
it is?
here comes your first walla walla reference
You think anyone in the FO is watching?? It just about makes you sick…
RE: Joel Pineiro vs Andrew Miller
Miller’s line: 2 1 1 1 1 2 0
Pineiro’s line: 2 0 0 0 0 3 0
If the FO is watching I’m sure they’re feeling pretty smart for passing on that over priced bum Miller.
Corco — I think Alanis Morrisette agrees with you that it’s ironic, anyway.
Yeah, its so like rain on your wedding day.
what about bobby valentine for manager? he’s in japan…
8 words I never thought I’d hear again: “Eleven in a row set down by Piniero.”
why is it that everything hargrove does i would do the opposite?
Dang. Just got in from the gym (first time in three months. ugh.) to find Joel kicking ass. Whoa.
i put a c note on jj blowing this game…
What a call!!
I’ll take it, reformed poster. Be prepared to owe me one hundred virtual dollars.
Note to Lauren: 1) go to the gym every day we’ll need long relief (i.e. every day) 2) come back no later than the 8th inning.
Ordonez was lucky he didn’t injure himself trying to stop and stay on the bag rather than just sliding.
For us Gameday viewers, what happened on that play to end the 8th?
Niehaus just about had a heart attack describing Betancourt’s play.
deep grounder to short, wild throw from youbet, joe backs it up and throws out batter (ordonez) trying to advance to 2nd base. mags did not slide and looked over his shoulder. good call by ump
Did Betancourt get an error on the play for overthrowing first?
94. Ordonez hit a ground in the hole between first and second Betancourt ran grabbed it, kept running, did Derek Jeter trademark over the top throw, throw went over Richies head, Ordonez tried for second Johjima backed wild throw up throw to Betancourt who’s was still running Betancourt tagged Ordonez. Very close though.
infield hit, batter out 2-6 trying to advance, no error
Why you’d even bother to throw Pudge a strike is beyond me. He walks about as much as our team does…sigh
Huh??? Why on earth is WFB going in for Doyle?
That new guy at SS needs to learn his position better. That’s 2 horrible plays in the last 15 minutes
OMG, Bloomquist substituted for Doyle on defense! WTF?!?
Alright, Willie Ballgame! His very presence out there is enough to get the team fired up!
(pleasedon’thitittowilliepleasedon’thitittowillie…)
101. to ignite the defense. Duh
101. Because Willie’s Hargrove’s little princess.
With Grover’s demented beyond reason logic, he’ll remember WFB’s four hit night and bench Snelling for the rest of the month for his 0-5 performance tonight.
Princess Willie. Of course.
Re: #104-107
Bah!
103. They’re just protecting Doyle from injury.
110. I wish it was they were trying for Willie to get an injury.
marbledog: that’s a lot of working out for a blown season. I don’t know if I can handle the fitness.
But you’ll be Lauren, toned chick.
I think I vote for Willie on defense for a half-inning, over Doyle slipping around in a wet outfield…
or Lauren, Aching Chick.
or Lauren, Travis Chick.
Oh, my toned and aching chick…
I think I vote for Willie on defense for a half-inning, over Doyle slipping around in a wet outfield…
That’s an excellent point. In fact, given the standings, I’m fine with Hargrove sending Bloomie out into the minefield in place of Doyle anytime the conditions are treacherous.
Did anybody get a count on how many times Rizzs mentioned Bonderman’s place of origin?
That would require me actually listening to Rizzs, which I’ve been avoiding on the advice of my doctor.
Wouldn’t that require one to listen to Rizzs on TV for one half and then switch over to radio to catch him there? Too much for anyone.
I love the M’s but this is one game I wanted them to lose. I wanted Woods to be pounded to show the front office he shouldn’t be in the starting rotation next year. I wanted the lineup to severely struggle so Hargrove’s inept construction and mis-handling of the lineup could be shown for what it was…crap.
Instead we have to go and get the W. Now Hargrove can say to himself “Well, by golly gee-whiz. It worked. I’ll have to try that again, although with Bloomers in there instead of that strikeout machine Doyle* so we can ignite some more gritty runs!”
*disclaimer…I love me some Doyle.
I don’t know if someone’s mentioned this yet, but I think it bears mentioning that not only did Hargrove offer an explanation for this lineup, he actually suggested that he’ll try it out for a few days. I mean, jesus god.
From the TNT:
“Yuniesky has been as consistent as anyone this year, and he wants to learn – this is a chance to let him try something new,†Hargrove said. “Adrian the last week or so has begun chasing pitches out of the strike zone. He’s a good hitter, a productive hitter, but sometimes he’s his own worst enemy.â€
Betancourt began the day batting .301, Beltre at .259. How long will the change last?
“It’s day-to-day,†Hargrove said. “You can’t score runs unless you get on base, and the top three hitters in our lineup now – Ichiro, (Chris) Snelling and Betancourt – do that regularly. So we’re going to take a look at it.â€
And also from the TNT:
“We didn’t try to force things with men on base, we let things happen,†Hargrove said. “You put the ball in play, swing at strikes, good things happen.â€
Good news, however: Kenji is excited about touring Japan with the MLB.
I apologize if this was covered in the comments, but did the M’s pitching look as good in the 2nd through 9th innings as the Tigers’ box score would suggest? I’m a Tiger fan and was at the game in far away upper deck seats for the first four innings and heading home when it picked back up after the rain delay, so it was difficult to tell if the Tigers were getting themselves out or falling victim to good pitching. I suspect the former, but was looking for input from somebody other than doomsday Tiger fans.
Also, I didn’t get home in time to see Andrew Miller. Did he look as good as they made him sound on the radio? The Tiger announcers were describing almost every strike as either on the corner, at the knees, or both.
As a sidebar: Is anyone else concerned about Jose Lopez’ lack of power in the 2nd half of the season? I started looking at his splits and it’s pretty drastic:
Lopez pre-AS: .280/.316/.454
Lopez post-AS: .278/.311/.308(!!!)
Lopez had 36 extra base hits in 350 AB prior to the All Star Game (roughly 1 XBH in every 10 AB). Since then, he’s had only 5 XBH in 169 AB (roughly 1 XBH in every 34 AB). He went through the entire month of July with 0 XBH and he had a sub .600 OPS in July and August.
Does anyone have a theory or explanation for this loss of power? Is it simply fatigue? Is his approach at the plate different? Have opposing pitchers found (and subsequently exploited) a weakness? Is there cause for concern?
I too have been concerned about Lopez’s recent lack of power. One observation i made was a few games ago when WFB was playing second they showed Lopez sitting on the bench and he had his thumb wrapped.
Remeber right after the break he hurt his thumb and had to sit out for a about a week? Could his thumb still be bothering him? I’ve heard of catchers taking a foul tip on the hand that puts them into a month+ long slump….Could this be a case of injury fatigue?
Keep in mind this was one observation with no other information supporting this.
#122– I want Joh to rest this offseason.