Game 139, Mariners at Tigers
Dave · September 6, 2006 at 8:35 am · Filed Under Mariners
Meche vs Rogers, 10:05 am.
Gil Meche pitching on 4 days rest:
72 2/3 IP, 71 H, 38 BB, 59 K, 4.95 ERA
Gil Meche pitching on 5 or more days rest:
80 IP, 77 H, 29 BB, 67 K, 3.94 ERA
Today, Gil Meche is pitching on normal rest.
And, line-up:
1. Ichiro, CF
2. Lopez, 2B
3. Betancourt, SS
4. Ibanez, LF
5. Sexson, 1B
6. Perez, DH
7. Johjima, C
8. Beltre, 3B
9. Forfeited Spot, RF
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Am I missing something here: The difference in the raw numbers (BBs, Ks per IP) doesn’t seem to be that remarkable.
29 BB in 80 IP is 3.26 BB/9. 38 BB in 72 2/3 IP is 4.7 BB/9.
The K rate isn’t hugely different (7.5 vs 7.3), but the walk rate is. I’m not really suggesting it means anything – I just have to write an intro for every game thread, and found it kinda interesting.
I wonder if Gil’s rest discrepancy is caused by his lingering recovery from the surgery. As time goes on will he be able to pitch somewhat effectively on a normal rotational basis or is this always going to be an issue?
His control is obviously effected as he goes from giving up walks in 52 percent of innings pitched to just 36 percent of innings with more rest.
If we had to keep one ut of the Joel/Gil two headed monster this offseason to flesh out the rotation I would lean towards Gil. He would be the lesser of two evils, maybe like the diet coke of evil, only 1 calorie.
I can’t handle this Pacific Time thing. Games start so i ncredibly early.
DJC, at least more than half of the games don’t start at 10:00 pm your time!
I can’t handle this Pacific Time thing. Games start so i ncredibly early.
Try watching college football at 8am on a Saturday morning sometime.
OTOH, “late” games aren’t so late out here. When Fox was running World Series games up to 4 hours (with endless commericals, promos, and “Hey look! It’s the star of House, Peter Lorre, in the crowd eating a hot dog with Fox News host Greta Van Sustren and talking to the star of the new Fox movie “I’m A Spoiled Party Girl But Murdoch Rules!” Lindsay Lohan!” fake shots), the games still ended by 9pm out here.
And games like this make me wish the M’s would start their own TV network, a la the Yankees’ YES Network.
Unfortunately, it would probably be called Mariners Entertainment And Sports System. MESS.
But what would they show when the games weren’t on?
“Fishing With Jay Buhner” (Or “Jay Buhner’s Barber Shop?”)
“Jorge Campillo’s Career Retrospective, Part 2: The Second Out Of His Only Inning”
“Edgar Martinez’ Woodshop” (“This week, we will make another bat.”)
“Rick Rizzs: You’re With Me, Leather”
#6,
It is Hugh Laurie not Peter Lorre but I get your point about the difference in times.
#7
MESS, sounds like a proper network for the M’s. The only problem with that is that they wouldn’t have their own games because they would be in disputes with Comcast over placement on basic cable.
MESS… ha ha… good one.
Do you have the breakdown on other Mariners pitchers with 4 days rest vs. 5 or more? I.e., is this a split someone tracks vs. adding it up by hand? It’s all small sample size but I wonder if there’s generally no difference or if pitchers typically a better with an extra day or two of rest. Has anyone seen a study on pitcher rest vs. performance?
Thanks for not posting the lineup. With Lopez AND Betancourt in the top 3 and “ignitor” in RF, I’m glad it’s a day game and not on TV.
I wish Peter Lorre could attend WS games, but I assume that he is dead He was awesome in Fritz Lang’s “M.”
What is up with Beltre anyway? He is 2 for his last 27 with 2 singles, no walks, and 9 K’s. That is an A-Rod like slump. It’s hard to argue with dropping him to #8 in a stretch like that (though why wasn’t he batting 8th in May??).
That’s one ugly lineup.
Was Peter Lorre playing Mike Hargrove in Fritz Lang’s “M’s”?
Actually a young Peter Lorre would be perfect for the role of WFB.
Rick Rizzs: You’re With Me, Leather
Is there some sort of story with Rizzs hitting on the ladies that I am unfamiliar with?
Morse in RIGHT FIELD. WHERE IS HE
Wow, its on Wikiquote and not even a long ugly link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You‘re_with_me,_leather
Of course, that was Berman. Rizzs was, “The merchandise is on the shelves, Rick.”
I think we need “Doyle is not a platoon player” t-shirts.
Looks like a big crowd there in Detroit.
MLB.tv camera man is cracking me up.
Hey, at least we’re not hitting Neifi Perez second.
Anyone out there?
Is this seriously what MLB.tv is going to give us today? Ugh.
He’s no longer cracking me up. This is like amateur hour.
Perfect day for a perfect game that’s not on television.
One day, that will happen, and Darth Selig will get an earful.
Apparently MLB.tv has contracted with some guy on the 3rd level with a camcorder to provide their video feed today.
Is the feed like King Felix’s debut or worse?
JMB: It’s your punishment for not paying more attention to work. In fact, we’re retroactively taking back your Labor Day.
What? You’re not working right now? I don’t wanna hear it, dammit!
That guy, by the way, seems to be more interested in finding his buddy who’s sitting ‘along the 3rd base line’ somewhere than in filming the actual players.
Sounds like he’s looking for a woman in a leather jacket.
Apparently MLB.tv has contracted with some guy on the 3rd level with a camcorder to provide their video feed today.
I remember that same camera angle from Felix’s MLB debut. I also remember that there was no graphics, and the resolution was so poor you couldn’t see the ball.
You might as well hire someone to go to Comerica and bootlegs the game and have him/her e-mail it to you later in the day. At least you’ll be able to *see* what’s happening.
what the hell MLB.tv?!?
I can just make out the hitter’s number…
Bootleg
s, is singular by the way.And only the S is supposed to be crossed out.
Oh, and a big half a piece sign, one raised finger salute to you Mike Hargrove. Seriously buddy, I’d pay twice as much to see you manage than I would to see Doyle hopelessly flail away, because as you have taught us, left handed hitters can not hit their pitching counterparts unless they are a veteran and a good citizen.
JI: peace sign. Just stop typing… you’re endangering the rest of us.
Fishing With Jay Buhner
“Hi, I’m Jay Buhner … on today’s show we visit with Kenji Johjima and I demonstrate how barfing on command can come in handy at those boring family gatherings.”
7 – The Edgar comment made me laugh. I would take “Edgar Martinez’ Woodshop†over 99% of FSN programming, even if he did make a bat every show.
Dave (or anybody), who would/could the M’s realistically hire if they actually – mercifully – pull the trigger on Hargrove?
JI: peace sign. Just stop typing… you’re endangering the rest of us.
You are absolutely right, I have embarrassed myself and my teammates. I agree to temporarily remove myself form the lineup for the good of the team.
Why is Joh catching today? Doesn’t this go against Grover’s conventional wisdom?
Benuardo! About time
I think the guy with the camcorder is not even aware that his camera is on.
Niiiiiice! We got to the Gambler!
The good thing about Gameday is the picture is pretty much always the same.
Way to kill the rally WFB!
40- um… maybe Hargrove isn’t aware of time zones. In Seattle, this is actually a morning game…
Joh is apparently catching as tomorrow is an off-day.
over at ESPN today Jerry Crasnick has a non-insider piece about Soriano and pitchers getting back on the mound.
#11– Lorre last until the ’60s, which was amazing as he struggled for years with an addiction problem that began with prescribed morphine in the ’20s…
Humerous corporate faux pas of the day.
Today, Sara Lee spun off its apparel brands into a new publically traded company known as HanesBrands Incorporated, or HBI for short. They spent a ridiculous amount of time and money on getting the word out about the new company name. The CEO rang the bell on Wall Street this morning.
But, apparently, no one thought about the internet. Check out the results if you google for HBI.
nice barehand transfer by lopez on the dp, now he just needs to add some substance to his style.
it would be nice if we could at least see the hitter on the mlb.tv broadcast.
Love the HBI Google link!
how about a shot of doyle; to see what he’s up to on his day off.
Ichiro is falling to pieces. I haven’t seen the USSM gurus express their opinion on his hitting of late. Any thoughts?
In a shocking development, MLB.tv has better production on their commercials than on the actual broadcast.
I have a new poll suggestion.
“What the hell is Hargrove trying to do?”
A. Get Fired
B. Marry Willie someday
C. Marry Willie and platoon him with his current wife
D. Forever ruin the last remaining optimism of Mariner Nation
E. (Left open for the real comical genius answers)
So with Gorver at the helm, we’ll never know if Doyle can hit MBL left handed pitching. It’s not a platoon or anything, I’m just saying, that it’s obvious that Doyle cannot hit left handed pitchers. Apparently WFB is a defensive upgrade, from what I learned last night.
[/snark]
Now I have the audio but still the between innings commercials. Oh well, it’s not as if the video was that informative.
Eh-oh.
I love when announcers talk about raw (non-rate) platoon numbers. For example, when talking about a hitter, they like to say that a guy is much better from one side or the other, because “all but four of his 25 homers have come against right-handers.” No mention of the disparity in at-bats.
re: 14
There’s only one I would want playing WFB in a Mariners Movie:
May Lou Retton
put an ‘R’ in there somewhere (stupid keyboard)
Oh no, better check those lugnuts
OK. They’re seriously loose now.
I don’t think there’s a more obvious sign in baseball that a pitcher is struggling than walking Neifi Perez to load the bases.
Whew. Gameday does not show me whether that was pure luck.
hoping that what she says is true, the other day Drayer opined that the Ms have no doubts about Doyle hitting lefties, so it is a convenient day off…
Wow. I suspect that was the very definition of a lucky escape.
Hey Dave–Ichiro?
Phew!!
Yah. You pretty much can’t hit the broad (or even narrow) side of a barn if you can’t give Neifi a pitch he won’t swing at. He’s got an OBP less than .300 in over 5000 (!) career plate appearances.
Hey Dave–Ichiro?
Sorry, I’m busy working for Heartless Bitches International. I don’t have time for a full on analysis today.
I’m with you Loki, I thought we were going to see the trademark Gil Meche meltdown a couple innings earlier than usual. Gotta love those free swingin’ tigers
Dave: I liked it so much, I bought the company!
Really though, how about the two-sentence summary?
was that a five pitch innning? I blinked and didn’t notice.
Six.
ah, seven
And conversely, after seeing our first three batters put the ball in play on 1-0 counts, followed by a first pitch out from Kenji, you gotta get sick and tired of those free swingin’ Mariners
Oops. Seven. There was a single in there.
Dave: I liked it so much, I bought the company!
Can we talk about my salary, then?
Really though, how about the two-sentence summary?
He’s a singles hitter. Singles hitters experience huge swings in performance because so many of their hits have a tiny margin for error.
So far, Ichiro, Riche, and Lopez have had 5 pitch at-bats. That’s the best we’ve done.
I love when announcers talk about raw (non-rate) platoon numbers. For example, when talking about a hitter, they like to say that a guy is much better from one side or the other, because “all but four of his 25 homers have come against right-handers.†No mention of the disparity in at-bats.
3 to 1 isn’t that big of a disparity.
Ahh… so Ichiro’s problems are just his normal streakiness. I wasn’t sure whether there was anything more to worry about. I would expect that he may be flailing a bit more to try to get out of his streak, due to the form we’ve seen him display on some of his swings?
USS Mariner: Come for the bitchmongering, stay for the international heartless bitches.
He often looks like he’s flailing more in his slumps, but he’s been doing that for years.
Thoughout his career, his monthly batting averages have jumped around randomly in the range .243 – .463
Ichiro may possibly be tiring a bit after the WBC in the spring.
USS Mariner: Come for the bitchmongering, stay for the international heartless bitches.
$ALE!
I very much appreciate the bitchmongerng.
Injury delay?
Ichiro may possibly be sick of this shit. Who could blame him?
#86– no injury– Kenny just had to get a crick out of his neck.
I think Ichiro is definately disheartened by the current state of the team and it’s management. Of course I have no basis for this, just a gut feeling, but I can’t see how it wouldn’t affect him.
Do all Comerica Tigers broadcasts look like this?
Ra(u^10)l!
Jose and Yuni with two first pitch singles. Raul sees a pitch and then doubles. Walks?! We don’t need no stinkin’ walks!
Raul!
I think Ichiro just discovered that Seattle lacks good barbeque, and this has made him disheartened.
Wow, that was weird. I saw my Raul comment right after Bender’s, and then when I reloaded, sidroo’s had inserted itself ahead. Pretty sneaky, sis.
big lightning bolt a few minutes ago, and now the rains starts, of course you won’t see it on mlb.tv through the grainy pictures
94 – Ichiro obviously hasn’t been to my house.
interestingly, Drayer says he has been pretty perky & smiley since he made the move to center….
Holy smokes! The chips are flying everywhere.
94 – Ichiro obviously hasn’t been to my house.
I’m not talking about those boxes with charcoal and a metal grate on top. I’m talking about smokehouses, pellicle, smoke rings, and vinegar-based sauce.
100 – As am I. Texas BBQ to be specific. I bet my BBQ could break Ichiro out of his slump – or at least put a few pounds on him.
Alright! Jose’s sixth extra base hit since june 30th. Woooo.
When was the last time Burny offered us good Texas BBQ?
Not really available back then, Clark.
Yeah, but still.
Sneaky’s my middle name.
McLemore!
I’m not watching the game, but Jose must have hit that one pretty well, considering it went to center and this is Comerica. Was it a fly ball over the center fielder’s head or just a line drive into the gap?
You could hear the thunder on the radio, though, which is kind of cool “Great catch by Richie Sexson! BOOM!“
Whatever did happen to Jose? I thought he was gonna be the next coming of Carlos Guillen.
damn, Rick, we all remember it was cold when Comerica opened, ok?
Guillen walks in a month as often as Lopez does in a season.
No kidding, msb. He’s been beating that story into the ground all series.
110. Et alors?
I’m just sayin’, they’re not really the same kind of hitter.
100 – As am I. Texas BBQ to be specific.
OK, you’re off the hook then. The wife and I have regular arguments about whether BBQ only means pulled pork or if it includes beef. Personally, I like me the brisket.
I bet my BBQ could break Ichiro out of his slump – or at least put a few pounds on him.
I think we’re having the next USSM feed at your house.
et donc lopez est a guillen comme un bordeaux ets a carlo rossi.
“The rain has abated… as a matter of fact, it’s gone right now.”
I think I got that backwards. damn francais
What could lead a team to trade FOR Neifi Perez? I’d rather have WFB than Neifi.
You know, I was thinking about the Meche “more than 4 days rest” thing. Bronson Arroyo just pitched the best game of his career on 3 days rest, and said he felt “better” than he did on 4 days. Perhaps the Reds will trade for Meche, and they can use him in conjunction with Arroyo to form a “normal” 5 day rotation…
Deal. Meche to the Reds.
Meche’s theme song is “what a difference a day makes”
heck, they are trading for everyone else….
The camera operator’s suffering from a pathetic case of I’m-bored-I’ll-scope-the-crowd-for-hot-chicks.
Richie is quietly creeping up to .250 and an .800 ops, a down year for sure, but at least it’s respectable.
Do you pull Meche now?
South Carolina mustard-based BBQ. That’s the shit.
However, I’ll take Texas BBQ if I must. When are we invited over?
I realize Richie’s tall, but at these mound conferences I’m always surprised *how* tall. One of the treats of watching M’s games is seeing opposing middle infielders standing at first base with Richie looming next.
South Carolina mustard-based BBQ. That’s the shit.
Yellow sauce is evil.
nothing like pouring rain.
Good God. An infidel.
Some yellow things may well be evil, although I can’t think of any at the moment. But South Carolina BBQ is awesome.
Wow. I’m surprised Rodriguez didn’t try to score on the fly to Willie. Musta been close in.
Shoot.
go for the mustard sauce, but stay away from Maurice Bessinger…
Why are we playing in the rain?
Geez. And I just wanted a nice easy midday win.
msb: ha! You prefer the other brother?
I knew I shouldn’t have gloated when Kenny was dealing with the rain earlier….
Meche only had 97 pitches, but showed signs of tiring. You’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Speaking of yellow stuff, I had a friend who loved to eat the ‘crab mustard’ gloop inside steamed blue crabs (grew up in Baltimore).
He’d do it just to gross me out so I wouldn’t feel like eating any more.
/snark mode on
You’d think that in September, the M’s would actually have an outfielder on their bench who could play, so they wouldn’t have to use a middle infielder out there.
/snark mode off
George didn’t have a good outing, did he?
Man, our bullpen is shot right now. Only Putz and Sherrill have any real MLB experience, and many of the other guys just aren’t that good.
Honestly, it’s got to the point where, if George Sherrill is the answer, I don’t want to know what the question is.
love it that they wait until the game is tied to call the delay … didn’t that happen to the Ms earlier this year, too?
#135– Maurice is just too dang political for little ol’ me
oh, of course, the Yankee game with the torrential downpour as Putz pitched the ninth…
Wow, yeah. Maurice should stick to the BBQ. Damn. Now I’m extremely hungry and stranded 3000 miles away from the stuff.
msb–I have a pretty easy recipe for a fair replica of mustard-y sauce, if you want it.
A states rights guy – an *old*-school republican. I thought those guys were extinct.
Did O’Flaherty start warming up before the rain delay? If so… hm.
I thought there were at least a couple on the USSC…
I just ordered a USS mariner organic tee! I hope it fits.
One of the treats of watching M’s games is seeing opposing middle infielders standing at first base with Richie looming next.
Like this?
#145: Clearly, you don’t visit the South that often. Maurice is a nutter and his BBQ is too dry, but I do like the sauce. Funny that the relative importance of State vs. Federal authority leads Maurice to fly the Confederate flag. Needless to say, Maurice continues to mourn the outcome of the ‘War of Northern Agression’.
“According to a report on MLB.com, Eddie Guardado has been diagnosed with a torn ulnar collateral ligament in his left elbow, which will end his season. Guardado will likely need Tommy John surgery, and his rehabilition could take up to one year.”
#144– that would involve actually BBQ-ing, right? it would have to be something I could use indoors, as I have no grill. I suppose I could clamber out onto the deck railing, safely navigate the 3-foot gap onto the deck next door, and then borrow a corner of her Smokey Joe…
msb: nah. It’s almost worth it just to put the sauce on something that’s not really BBQed. Also, what sort of self-respecting upper-middle-class blog reader doesn’t have a George Foreman device?
You know, if Detroit had the money for a real stadium with a fancy roof we wouldn’t have to deal with this. But considering Detroit can’t pay for its schools and families are taking their kids and getting out if they can (10,000 enrollment decline per year) I’m not sure they even can justify the stadium they have now. But I guess with the teachers on strike the kids can come to the games…and stand around outside, because they can’t afford tickets.
Joser, that’s pretty funny. Sad, but funny…
so, Raul is the M’s Clemente nominee this year?
#152– heh. I was feeling giddy earlier this year when I finally got a Cuisinart mini-chopper… think Dave’s rules expand to recipe exchanges during a rain delay?
149. Yup, that’s the effect.
153. Detroit sounds just like Baltimore.
The mini-choppers are nice.
Awww bollocks. I go away to do some IF, and look what happens. Trouble is, the rain never starts in earnest until the M’s cough up the tying run. Like that NY game. If only the skies opened up a bit earlier, they could just call the final two outs off and send everyone home happy (and by everyone, I mean me). But no.
They’re nice, but annoying to clean. I’d rather wash a knife and spend the extra time, in most cases. The immersion (stick) blenders, though, kick ass.
Aha! I’d forgotten that I put that sauce recipe online once.
(Hopefully Dave will permit a mere link.)
oh, no, it was pouring all through JJ’s inning in NY — he (and others) commented that it was interesting that the game was called during the third at-bat, as it was just as bad during batters one & two.
That’s a weird recipe. It doesn’t make very much sense to put the dry ingredients in a saucepan and then slowly add vinegar. What’s going to happen if you add it fast? Oh well.
The immersion (stick) blenders, though, kick ass.
hey, got one of those now, as well. I have to actually remember to get them out & use them, of course. Thanks for the link
msb-
Oh. I was listening to MLB radio and looking out my window, praying for the rain to intensify with each pitch. It really was just a Seattly style drizzle at first, as I recall. I guess the weather is always worse in the Bronx.
9. Forfeited Spot, RF
That keeps catching me off guard — I keep reading it as “Fortified” Spot.
Maybe Hargrove’s reading skills need similar retraining…
#163– from the PI…
The Mariners thought they had the game won in nine innings, but a bad call by first base umpire Mike Reilly led to J.J. Putz blowing a save, and then the rains came in for a one-hour, 58-minute delay.
Jose Lopez seemed to have thrown out Jorge Posada at first base for the second out in the bottom of the ninth, but Reilly called the slow-footed Posada safe, and the Mariners went semi-apoplectic. “I told him he missed the call,” Putz said. “He told me he didn’t and to get back on the mound.”
Replays showed Reilly muffed the call. Once he did, that meant that the next batter, Johnny Damon, could tie the game with a fly ball to center field. The fly ball would have been the final out of a 4-3 Seattle win had Reilly’s call gone the other way.
Things didn’t get any better with Reilly’s other weird call. After Damon’s fly ball tied the game, Alex Rodriguez came up with a chance to win it. Putz went to 3-1 on him and the rains, which had grown increasingly heavy, got to the point at which Reilly, the umpiring crew chief, halted play. “It wasn’t any worse than it was for the (previous) two batters,” Putz said. “I was kind of surprised when he called it right then.”
I flew into NY that night. Was driving past the Stadium during the 9th inning, and it was raining so hard that the taxi driver was going around 5 mph. (Which, in a NY cab, says a lot).
Honestly, I couldn’t see 10 feet out the window. Got out of the cab, and was wetter in 30 seconds than if I’d gone swimming. My head hurt just from the drops hitting it.
There was no way they should have been playing during that rain.
So Frank Deford is having one of his blanket-on-the-knees-shaking-arthritic-fists ‘We had to walk uphill both ways in the snow and we liked it’ senior moments, ranting about pitch counts. Now, my first reaction was “Can you document any of that with actual, you know, statistics?” — which is both satisfying and ironic, since he’s kind of taking shots at stats as part of the article. But I got to wondering if maybe somebody already had, and this thread at scount.com led me first to TangoTiger’s Pitch Count Estimator, and then this article at BP. Now, I’m not a BP subscriber so I can’t read the whole thing, but that graph certainly suggests a jump in pitches thrown per PA starting in 1999. However, that jump looks to be from ~3.4 pitches/PA to ~3.7 pitches/PA. So .3 pitches per PA… and now many PAs does a starting pitcher typically see? If it’s 33, that’s ten whole added pitches per game. Or, looking at it another way, if all pitchers are were on a hard 100 pitch count, that increase means they go from facing (100/3.4) = 29 batters to (100/3.7) = 27 batters (which is kind of a suspicious number anyway).
Of course, none of that address the scope of Deford’s complaint, which extends back to the good old days when men were men and pitchers were manlier than any of them, or something. But there isn’t data going back that far, apparently.
One thing’s for sure: Deford should be a hacktastic M’s fan.
Crap, I just wrote a pretty decent little post and it got eaten… I think because I had like 4 relevant links in it (tangotiger, BP, scout.com, sports illustrated…). Did it go into the bitbucket, or is it in some mod queue that somebody will look at someday?
Anything with more than three external links is automatically moderated to fight off comment spam. I approved it.
The best thing about the Deford article is the cheerleader link at the bottom.
Yeah, I heard that smug little piece on NPR this morning. He was chuckling over how taking pitches to wear down a pitcher and walking to get on base were either dishonest or dishonorable or something. I have no idea why this guy still gets air time if a casual and generally ill informed fan like myself can see the holes in his arguement.
Frank Deford is a pompous twit. Nothing he says should be taken seriously, unless it’s about tennis season in Newport or something else utterly irrelevant. He’s a lethal combination of “thrilled to hear his own voice” and “convinced he’s smarter than you” which all results in…well, in his every column, really.
And I thought I always liked Frank Deford on NPR, but now I realize it’s when he is talking about sports I know very little about.
about the only thing that Deford has done that didn’t make me cranky was his book about his daughter’s fight with CF.
Long rain delay. How long will they wait until they just postpone the finish to another day?
I would like the game to continue so I can get a save from Todd Jones for my fantasy team.
Tie game right now, not a save opportunity yet!
I’ll take Texas or Western North Carolina style. I agree with dw — yellow sauce is evil. Put mustard on your sausages but leave it off my pork shoulder, please!
Do they hold games over to the next day, or do they just declare the game cancelled and start over, but keeping all the stats (that’s how some players appear in 163 games in one season)?
PLAYING IN THE RAIN (See # 156, # 160, # 166, etc.)- This nmay sound like sour grapes, but playing in the rain favors the team that is on offense.
On the offensive side, batting gloves and dirt can compensate for slippery bats and slippery basepaths.
On the defensive side, the resin bag hardly compensates for the slippery ball, and nothing compensates for the slippery grass with which outfielders–and sometimes infielders and catchers–must deal.
It seems that fairness should take precedence ove “getting the game in,” and baseball shouldn’t be played in the rain.
CONSPIRACY THEORY? – Interesting that both this game and that one in New York were played in the rain until the home team had tied the score.
Evan, I believe they hold them over to the next day. I believe players get 163 games in a season by being traded mid-season and playing for a team that had played one or two less games than the team they were traded from.
The best mustard isn’t yellow, anyway: it’s green. Wasabi!
This is a really long game.
Spicy brown mustard for me, or a good Chinese hot mustard, which is usually brown in color as well (as opposed to the cheap bright yellow crap you usually see).
according to rule 4.12, this would have been a tied game (stats count, including “games played”) without awarding a “win” or “loss”. past tense though, tarp is coming off now, dumping water in right field as usual.
They’re dumping water in right field? Note to Hargove: Doyle and his knee stay dry. And Willie doesn’t get any water wings.
Colman’s English always goes over well.
Tarp is coming off, so play should resume soon? I wonder who will take over on the mound?
Good God. An infidel.
Infidel? Red sauce is what Jesus ate his pork with.
Nothing wrong with vinegar-based red sauce. The KC stuff is corn syrup crap.
Maurice Bessinger
What a piece of work he is.
Needless to say, Maurice continues to mourn the outcome of the ‘War of Northern Agression’.
I love how they blame the Union for the fact they shot first (at Fort Sumter).
Does anyone else find it curious that Eric O’Flaherty’s photo is an over the shoulder action shot while pitching, where everyone else is in a static pose?
I think the action shot looks better. Did he get to choose this?
My guess is they didn’t have a posed picture for him yet?
As for the rest, I’m sure this discussion would be much more interesting to me if I had ANY idea who Maurice Bessinger was…
As for the rest, I’m sure this discussion would be much more interesting to me if I had ANY idea who Maurice Bessinger was…
Try this.
YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BARBECUE STOP TALKING ABOUT IT
Thanks dw, the previous discussions make much more sense to me now. I had found him on google, but the first 5 sites I went to just talked about his BBQ sauce, and nothing about the flag issue or anything else.
I’ve never had a yellow BBQ sauce, but I’ve sure had some good red ones! Although I must admit, “The Man” kicked my *** at Safeco earlier this year! Hard to look patriotic during the national anthem when your nose is running like a garden hose!
Y’know, the mustard-based sauce doesn’t really taste like French’s, for gods sake. It isn’t even yellow-yellow. More like a nice deep maize.
Gameday is trying to claim the rain delay is over. Are they right?
I miss the old Piggly Wiggly we used to have in downtown Puyallup growing up…
Gameday is trying to claim the rain delay is over. Are they right?
Well, the “fortified” spot just struck out. I’d say the M’s world is back on its axis…
How long was the rain delay? I don’t recall one this long. Is there a record for that?
Hmmm. Now I’m wondering why diggerbarnes is an expert in BBQ?
Asking WFB to hit against Zumaya is a little silly. 3 pitches. Next.
was there one out here? I grew up with them back East and so was forced to buy a PigglyWiggly mug when I was at one visiting in SC….
was there one out here?
Yup. IIRC, it turned into a Safeway many moons ago.
msb: I have a Piggly Wiggly mug too! we ARE soulmates.
Ugh. Winning run is at second with one out…
so, did we hear anything about Sean Green?
#199– I do know that the longest rain delay at Safeco was 54 minutes ….
Who the hell is Jon Huber?
Was the rain delay at Safeco because the roof jammed or something?
Evan: He starred in Napoleon Dynamite, you don’t remember him?
Oh.
#207– here
dammit. here
those 12 people left at Comerica are pretty loud.
Who’s Jon Huber? Our new frickin’ hero, that’s who!
Whatever I want! Gosh!
What a damn long game.
3:09 rain delay, don’t question digger barnes, he’s forgotten more about BBQ than most ever learn.
I wonder how many people are still in the seats.
I wonder how many people snuck into the park when others were leaving.
Nope. Hideki Matsui had 163 games played in 2003. Cal Ripken did it in 1996.
Albert Belle also did it in 1998, but I’m not as sure he wasn’t traded that year. Cal and Godzilla certainly weren’t, though.
1 Game tiebreakers.
#204– I have a Piggly Wiggly mug too!
I bought my brother the attractive can holder
Eek! Zumaya collapse! I love it.
doyle alert, he’ll hit for bloomqiust
Benuardo kicks ass.
Kenji!
Hoo-Ray!
Johjima kicks mas ass.
was there one out here? I grew up with them back East and so was forced to buy a PigglyWiggly mug when I was at one visiting in SC….
I’ve wanted a Pig T-shirt for a while, but the last time I was in one (Columbiana, AL) they only had them in some ugly colors (lime, pink). I really wanted one of the ones the checkers and baggers wore (in navy) but I wasn’t about to try to buy one off of them.
Zumaya sucks. I wonder if they’d let us do a suck for suck swap of Pineiro and Zumaya. We can even eat Pineiro salary. I think a change of scenery would benefit both of them.
And Beltre strikes out ‘reaching’ for a breaking ball. There’s a surprising outcome. Why does he keep slipping into the same bad habits?
How many callups, and we still only have a 4-man bench!?
Beltre is so predictable.
Farking Beltre…
If you can talk the Tigers into taking Pineiro for Zumaya, you will win the people’s acclamation and fame forever.
Though I’d rather have Bonderman….
Pinch hitter?
Please?
Beltre is the most consistent player on the team.
A tie game after 5 which is called due to rain is called a tie and replayed — but the stats count — which is the most common way to get 163 (or even more) games in a season.
1 game tiebreakers
That would work, except the 2003 Yankees won their division by 6 games.
The 1996 Orioles won the wild card by 2.5 games over Seattle, but lost their division by 4 games.
So no one game playoff either time.
Yay Doyle…
Let’s go Doyle
Jesus, this guy must be throwing BB’s/
The Doyle at bat looked a lot like the WFB at bat last time up.
Forget that – I should have figured that Sportsline’s GameCenter hasn’t been updated.
Uh – two runs would have sounded better. JJ now, I hope.
Well, if momentum exists in baseball, the Tigers have it after that escape job by Zumaya.
Sexson just made it back to .250. Yay! The whole team gets to go to Chuck E. Cheese’s after the game to celebrate.
At least Doyle has the excuse of not having seen some of these pitchers before.
Not to mention the fact that Doyle actually has skills, and everyone is entitled to occasional bad at-bat.
236. tie games happen, and the stats (including games played) count
RIZZS – YOU IDIOT!
Best. Call. Ever.
Thank you Rick Rizzs.
And you thought Dave was senile. Shame on you.
Rizzs completely blew the call on the radio. M’s strike out the side, and we’re going to the 11th…
Oh man, Rizzs just totally blew the call on the end of the game. I love it.
If anyone can access the Rizzs call, put it on Youtube. Classic.
[strongbad]IT”S OVER![/strongbad]
That was hilarious. I wonder if they’ll replay that in the highlights?
WTF did Ricky-boy do?
Is it just me, or are the Tigers a house of cards? I mean, nice young pitching and all, but they don’t exactly strike fear.
Gameday shows three outs for Detroit in the 10th, and the M’s up by one run.
Wouldn’t that mean the ballgame is over?
Rick’s been hanging with Niehaus too long.
Lest we forget – my gosh, the Mariners won.
What did Rick do???
I love the radio. The Mariners get a game ending double play and our wonderful announcer has us going to the 11th tied. Then someone must have told him that the game was over because he almost screamed that the game was over and the Mariners won. Rick is priceless.
David
Obviously we were a run ahead. But was it a double play that ended the game – as gameday indicated?
Is it just me, or are the Tigers a house of cards? I mean, nice young pitching and all, but they don’t exactly strike fear.
They’re not nearly as good with Guillen and Polanco out of the lineup.
Yes, it ended on a double-play, 5-4-3. Rizzs thought the score was tied, apparently.
J.J. is the man! Rizzs…not so much. Wish I could have heard this gem myself; maybe he was busy adjusting his toupee?
Yeah, he got the call right but he clearly thought the score was still tied, because he immediately went into his “going to the next inning” bit. Then, when he clued in, you could hear the enthusiasm machinery creaking into gear as he tried to rev up to call a win.
Gameday had the double play called correctly. Rick was announcing by himself, Dave was probably taking a nap somewhere after a long day. The inning ends and Ricks says as he is cutting to commercial that the the Mariners will be coming up to bat in the 11th inning. 1 or 2 second pause. And now I am paraphrasing, “Wait the Mariners lead 5 to 4. The game is over. The Mariners win” The quoted sentences are not quite correct because I was laughing harder then I was listening.
David
OMG, they’re taking about Gil Meche staying on the post game show. This is terrible.
Gil wants to stay. He wants to be a part of what gets Seattle back to where they were and he thinks it would be awful to see that happen from afar.
Aparently the Mariners have been talking to him and expressing interest in him staying.
If only there were a way to make Meche pitch as well as he would pitch for another team once traded… while still in Seattle. It’s the paradoxical impossibility of our modern age.
Did you notice the editing done by KOMO. The cut most of Rizzs’ going to the 11th comment. But there is just enough left to know that something was edited out.
David
265, that’s typical canned speech by both sides. Unless he’s really unhappy with the team, the player always says he wants to stay. I figure that puts a little public relations pressure on the team to keep him, as well as making him look like a good guy overall, rather than a profit-maximizing, highest-bidder sellout. The team acts similarly.
A couple years back, I about choked when Jim Thome said he really wanted to stay in Cleveland, but they wouldn’t go the seventh year like Philly. This from guy getting close to 100 million in his deal. Now, I’m not blaming the players for taking the highest bid, but the rhetoric that they hang on it can be a bit much.
265 – The fact that he sucks aside, here is the number 1 reason I would not even consider bringing Gil back next year:
ERA against:
Oakland – 5.75
LAA – 5.87
Texas – 14.21!!
The AL West has this guy figured out and there is no way we should resign him so he can help us start another ML record losing streak. Gil could be average to pretty good in the NL I think, just let him go Bavasi.
Do you guys honestly think we will re-sign Meche?
This is Gil saying this stuff, remember?
Not Bavasi, Lincoln, Armstrong, etc.
Just about all players say that they want to stay with their current team, earn good money, see better days, etc.
What will happen is that the M’s will probably offer him about a $3-$4 million salary to be polite, Gil will decline because he could get a little more money playing in the National League, where he’d honestly be a better pitcher, and we will be saying ‘goodbye’ to Gil.
I think it just is so blatently obvious that he is just too inconsistent and unpredictable on the mound to be pitching every 5 days.
So I wouldn’t look too much into this. I think Gil is gone at the end of the season still.
Then again, we are dealing with the man who signed Carl Everett, Mike Hargrove, Rich Aurilia, Scott Spiezio, etc.
Of course, then again, he could very well be gone at the end of the season.
But then again. . .ARGH! I could go on all night talking about possibilities.
Bottom Line: Gil is gone at the end of the year in bascially 9 out of 10, 99 out of 100 scenarios that you could think of.
FWIW, Drayer said that Gil said that the Ms talked to him pre-season to sound him out, and talked to him again ‘a few months back’, but that he wanted to wait until the off-season.
FWIW, I just read on the ESPN crawl on the Sox-Sox game that the Tigers just released Dmitri Young.
#271-hahahahahahahahaa, good thing he wanted to wait ’till the offseason.
Because I’m almost sure a few months was June-July when he was the “ace” of the staff, and if he signed an extension then, he would’ve had to deal with his crap for 3-4 more years.
lol, HUZZAH!
Blowers keeps reminding us that the Mariners only have Washburninator & El Rey under contract, and so will have to fill three slots — if they don’t get lucky with Matsuzaka, if they don’t convince Schmidt they are more than rebuilding — you have to fill those slots with somebody.
listening to the highlights, wonder if that ball off the top of the wall in the 7th really was a HR, or if Chris Guccione messed with the Ms again
#273-Sorry, I meant to say “we” would’ve have to deal with his crap for 3-4 more years.
My bad.
#274-We will break the bank for Matsuzaka, and we will get someone like an Adam Eaton for cheap.
Matsuzaka+Eaton+Woods=3 starting slots
PROBLEM SOLVED!
Oh please get us Matsuzaka. That guy is badASS!
I predict, Gil becomes an Ace releiver before his career is done.
Roy Oswalt just got 5 years/$73M. The remaining potential free agent pitchers are Zito, Schmidt, and everyone else. Do you really think that anyone is going to be cheap this year?
#279-Adam Eaton would be because of his history of injuries, and he would take a slight hometown discount too (especially if Lou comes back).
So that’s why I think Eaton would be the 2nd free agent pitcher besides Matsuzaka.
#279-You got to understand too, the price of certain free agents can only go so high just because teams only have so much money to play around with.
And last I checked, the Red Sox, Yankees, and Mets can only take so many players.
For example, I think the highest anyone will offer Matsuzaka will be $12 million a year because of the ridiculous amount of money it will cost some team to actually get to talk to him first.
I think using the phrase ‘Lou comes back’ or ‘Griffey comes back’ or any permutation thereof should be bannable.
Matsuzaka is going to cost a mint, but he’s worth it. That guy can pitch.
#281– don’t forget the Angels need pitching, the Orioles need pitching…
what would Lou have to do with Eaton?
I also think that while the price to get the rights to Matsuzaka will be sky high, the contract he signs will be tolerable, especially if it’s with the M’s. I am optimistic that he will see Kenji here, not to mention Ichiro, and he’ll want to be a Mariner if possible.
Did you notice the editing done by KOMO. The cut most of Rizzs’ going to the 11th comment. But there is just enough left to know that something was edited out.
I heard it and just about had to pull my car over I was laughing so hard. Talk about baaaaad editing jobs. The audio equivalent of Rizzs’ toupee…
272 G Man. That blows. I am not a fan of his but he was part of the crap teams and now is close to the play offs and they dump him. Real class.
The Marlins-Diamondbacks game is currently interesting, if you know what I mean.
Rich Waltz gets to call a no-no. Pretty cool.
Stop interviewing him and just let him go celebrate.
It’s ok, he got it. 4 walks, 6 Ks, must have had some great glovework behind him. The Beckett trade looks pretty silly… so far, its only 1 season.
Man, Marlins fans have had it so good the last 16 years: 2 championships, 4 no-nos, this year they *dismantle* the team and somehow manage to upgrade 3B, SS, and 2B and somehow are only 2.5(?) back of a playoff spot- all while on a $15m payroll. Aaargh! At least we’ll get our revenge when they move to Portland… or Vegas… or San Jose.
This is fucking sick. Go Marlins.
I’m hugely rooting against the Dodgers, Phillies, and Padres right now.
There’s no way Portland could support an MLB team. New York needs another team though. Something to take away from the huge money the Yankees can pull in. Vegas would be interestng too.
I thought Portland was a bigger market than K.C. or Cincinnati. I’m probably wrong…
… dismantle the team for the 2nd? 3rd? time…
Actually…I’m rooting for the Dodgers to pull way ahead of everybody else so they won’t end up in the Wild Card race.
I agree: “if Lou comes back” or “when Lou comes back” or “is Lou coming back?” or “should Lou come back?” should all get you permanently banned. It’s just not sensible.
so, just how old do you suppose Jose Contreras is, anyway….
On ESPN News: Eddie G done for the year with TJ surgery. That really sucks.
yup. and rehab all next year, what are the odds he ever comes back?
Rick Rizz’s blunder is in every update on 1080 the fan here in Portland. That’s right up there with Niehaus’s “What a boner!” line.
A beloved former Mariner is doing something I can’t and won’t talk about through 6 innings, ya know FYI.
what was Niehaus’ line in reference to? and why would that be worthy of note?
Alas, DeJesus tripled. And then got picked off at third. D’oh! Still a 1 hitter, though. I can’t decide if it’s a shame it’s not in NY (where it would help him with the fans) or nice that it’s in KC (where the fans are good enough to appreciate something like that even when it’s going against them, and certainly have little else to enjoy at the ballpark at this point in the season).
I don’t remember what it was in reference to but Niehaus meant to say “what a bummer”. Every so often when someone would screw up on the afternoon show they would play that quote. Maybe I’m just an idiot but it always made me laugh. It’s just quintessential Dave Niehaus.
well, a boner is a mistake, after all, such as Merkle’s boner….
294: Portland is a bigger market than KC and Cinci, so you’re right.
Portland is a bigger city, but I think Cincy/Dayton/Louisville is bigger than Portland, and that’s all within 1.5 hours of Cincy.
Is someone going to have to bust out the Zumsteg Plan again?
Re. #291:
Well, the crazy thing about the Florida Marlins’ payroll — which, amazingly enough, costs team owner Jeffrey Loria approximately $15 million — is that starting pitcher Brian Moehler (6.18 ERA; 1.61 WHIP; 50/33 K to BB ratio), first baseman Wes Helms (.308/.379/.538), and relief pitcher Matt Herges (3.92 ERA; 1.56 WHIP; 30/19 K to BB ratio) are three of the five highest paid players on the ballclub; they earn $1,500,000, $800,000, and $600,000, respectively.
Except for backup first baseman and pinch-hitter Helms, who’s having a career year (Career: .263/.327/.438) — which, due to the amount of money he’ll most likely earn in free-agency during the upcoming off-season, means that he’ll probably be replaced by Jason Stokes next year — all of the aforementioned players are expendable.
At any rate, though, Dontrelle Willis ($4,350,000) and Miguel Olivo ($700,000) are the other two players who are making more than $500,000 this season for the Marlins. Miguel Olivo (.268/.292/.443), unsurprisingly, still has very little patience at the plate; he has just 7 base on balls compared to 84 strikeouts this season.
This is good. They’re going to have to go into fire sale mode next year anyway when Cabrera is arb eligible.
308
Good point, but Portland could draw from the Seattle/lower Washington area too, particularly if they had a NL team (or if the M’s were playing in Portland) which is exactly why they’ll never get a team unless Bud gives the Mariners The Angelos Plan. First Portland has to decide to to spend their money on a stadium, you know– something that matters, and not on stupid things like education and what not…
And if M-Cab does become available, the M’s should offer them Whatever It Takes to win his services.
Of course, if they try to sell off Willis and Cabrera, Bud should intervine– like that’ll happen.
And we all know the state of Oregon isn’t exactly loaded with cash.
Re:280 – Adam Eaton would be because of his history of injuries, and he would take a slight hometown discount too (especially if Lou comes back).
Can we please ban the use of the term “home town discount” too, please?
WFB – hometown discount? No – hometown PREMIUM, if anything.
Sexson? No.
Are there any actual real-life examples of a genuine home town discount (other than a rationalization for a signing that otherwise sucked)?
And we all know the state of Oregon isn’t exactly loaded with cash.
Compared to other west coast cities, this statement is probably true. However, I recall one of the arguments for bringing a team to Portland is that the median income is high enough to support a Major League team. And since you decided to make fun of my state, I am now forced to link to this article. Enjoy!
#315: Are there any actual real-life examples of a genuine home town discount (other than a rationalization for a signing that otherwise sucked)?
Ken Griffey Jr’s deal with the Reds has to be at the top of the list.
Guardado injured?? Whodathunkit. I like the guy personally, but I’m sure glad he piles up DL time on somebody else’s nickle.
I’m gone to Santa Barbara for a week, and thinks like the suffereings of the rudderless Mariners will escape me for a time. . . . Cry for me. Or not. : )
The more I see the highlights of Anibal Sanchez’s no-hitter, the more I think that maybe the umpire blew the call at first base to end the game.
#315: In 2004 Roger Clemens signed with Houston for $5 million. He went 18-4 and won the NL Cy Young Award.
USSM is the fuckign sittht!!! go ussm! yeahhh for bitch cocking er is it somehthing…bitch mongering right? yeahh!
go usdsm!!!
Portland is the biggest market in the US to only have one major sports team.
Thursday’s an off-day. Some people–not only the players–could use one.
The more I see the highlights of Anibal Sanchez’s no-hitter, the more I think that maybe the umpire blew the call at first base to end the game.
Eric Byrnes deserved to be called out anyway. The fucker was deliberately hustling trying to break up the no no on what was a routine grounder. Yeah, the shortstop lazy’d it a bit, but it was still routine. And he’s Byrnes thinking he’s Pete Rose or something. The game was over, let the guy have his fucking no hitter. Why’ya gotta be a jackass, Eric?
Wait, how does trying to get on base for you team make someone a jackass? Isn’t that the goal of a major league baseball player?
325 – Especially in a 2-0 game. Nothing wrong with what Byrnes did.
I remember turning on the TV when I was a kid, just as Ken Phelps swung onto a Brian Holman pitch and destroy his perfect game with one out to go.
That sucked.
Eric Byrnes deserved to be called out anyway. The fucker was deliberately hustling trying to break up the no no on what was a routine grounder. Yeah, the shortstop lazy’d it a bit, but it was still routine. And he’s Byrnes thinking he’s Pete Rose or something. The game was over, let the guy have his fucking no hitter. Why’ya gotta be a jackass, Eric?
This is the stupidest take I’ve ever heard. We’re calling guys out as jackasses because they actually hustle? Fuck, I wish I had Byrnes on my team. That dude works hard, he tries to break up no hitters even when the game is over. THAT…is a gamer.
and hustle really is about the only thing Eric has going for him….
True, but if he got to first the no-hitter is probably still intact (I’d call an error on the shortstop), and the tying run is at the plate. The goal of every player should be to win as many games as possible (unless you’re racing to the bottom for a draft pick).
And I don’t want Byrnes on my team, because he’s just not very good, but it annoys me that umpires make context-dependent calls.
If Byrnes was safe, call him safe.
[i]And I don’t want Byrnes on my team, because he’s just not very good[/i]
Byrnes has been slugging .500 for most of the year, sure he won’t ever play this good again, but the man is a decent ballplayer. I can think of more than one team in the race that would be happy to have him… like Oakland.
Weren’t Olerud’s years hear at a price that would qualify as home town discount? 3 years $20 Million. It seems a lot more value for the money than we’ll get from Sexson.
Addendum: Not that it matters since this thread seems now retired.
The second Olerud contract ws $15.4 million for 2 years – which was of poor value, but the first 3 years, as cited above…that was a hometown deal.
The Mets offered Olerud essentially the same contract as the M’s, so while the hometown aspect was certainly an important and perhaps deciding factor, there was no discount.
but the man is a decent ballplayer
With a .328 OBP in a hitters’ park? No he isn’t.
Grizz – I didn’t know that. So it’s more like a time warp, salary inflation, discount when compared with the Sexson contract.
with a .328 OBP in a hitters’ park? No he isn’t.
As long as he’s playing CF, and slugging in the high 4s, sure he is. Not a long term solution, but a good stop-gap.
Loki: Oh yeah, even though their signings were only five years apart, the Olerud and Sexson signings arguably happened in two different eras. $7 million per year was a lot in 1999; for example, “Player of the Decade” Ken Griffey Jr. made $8+ million in 1999. At the time, Olerud’s contract represented the biggest free agent signing in M’s history. Olerud also signed the year before Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, and company reset the high end of the free agent market. Since then, increased revenue sharing and MLB’s overall success in adding new revenues (especially through MLB Advanced Media) have skewed the free agent market upward because now there are more teams with money to spend on free agents.
Wait, how does trying to get on base for you team make someone a jackass? Isn’t that the goal of a major league baseball player?
Legging out an infield single on a routine groundball in the first inning is good, especially if you make it.
Legging out an infield single in a tight game on a routine groundball late in the game to give your team a chance to tie it is good, especially if you make it.
Legging out an infield single when you’re the last at bat / out of a no hitter in the ninth inning where the chances of your team actually tying it are slim because the pitcher was performing well and the next hitter is Chad Tracy and his .277 / .337 / .433 line and 123 strikeouts in 135 games, twice that same ballgame, is next up to bat reeks of Byrnes deliberately NOT wanting to be the last out of the game more then “giving his team a chance”.
Mentioning the Brian Holman thing is ridiculous. Holman lost his perfect game on a mistake pitch. I have no problem with a clean basehit to break up a no hitter. Using your hustle on a routine grounder to short to try to bust up the no hitter is crap. If it had been a high chopper off the plate, or another type of “excuse me” single, I wouldn’t care. But he rolled it RIGHT TO the short stop! You’re out, Byrnes. 98.9% of the time you’re out. Jog to first and show some class. Eat your lumps, bow to the pitcher, and go get ‘em tomorrow.
I just don’t like it. The 2-0 score was irrelevant at the time. The only thing that mattered by the time Byrnes came up to the plate was the no hitter. There ARE unwritten rules of baseball, and that should be one of them.
I disagree for a fewons:
1) The pitcher shouldn’t have his not hitter handed to him on a silver platter. Why didn’t the Cardinals show some class the other day and intentionally whiff and go down 1-2-3 to give Ortiz his no-no, it is a meaningless game, right?
2) If Byrnes reaches it brings the Tying Run to the plate.
3) The Marlins are in a pennant race, somewhere in the Unwritten Rules there is a chapter that covers not lying down v. contending teams.
4) It is Brynes porigitive to reach base anyway he can, he has every right to his damnest to succeed any he can. It diminishes to no-hit effort if he is trying to *help* the pitcher succeed.
5) Since when is it wrong to try and beat a grounder out?… especially in a close game.
For what its worth, TIF, I think you’re a smart guy, and you’ve added a lot to the comments the past couple of years.
And I think you’re so far off base that I can’t even comprehend the fact that you’re serious.
For what its worth, TIF, I think you’re a smart guy, and you’ve added a lot to the comments the past couple of years.
And I think you’re so far off base that I can’t even comprehend the fact that you’re serious.
I want to make something clear before I continue: what I am harping about isn’t that Byrnes didn’t do what he thought was right nor do I think he didn’t do something we all would have done in his place. The original comment was that the play looked closer then some thought and that Byrnes might have been safe. My original comment was that, if I was the umpire, I’d still have called him out on a close play. Unless it was 100% clear he was safe, even going up to the imagined “tie goes to the runner” bit, he’s out. Now I realize that sounds stupid, but the play shouldn’t have been that close to begin with.
I’ve been embracing statistical analysis and scouting reports since soon after I came here, but this is still a game with human beings; human beings with passion. I am one of these and there are certain things that irritate me to no end about the game. People pitching our guys inside while we don’t do the same thing irritates me. Dropping a bunt during the late innings of a perfect game, breaking it up, irritates me. Showing up my team’s pitcher after a homerun irritates me. Believing in “clutch hitting” irritates me. Rally Monkies irritate me.
If I were Anibal Sanchez and Eric Byrnes legging out an infield hit on a routine groundball broke up my no hitter at the 8 2/3rds inning point, then I’d drill him upside the head next time I faced him. That’s just how I’d do it. If he rolled that pitch through the hole between short and third, I would tip my cap to him and lament my horrible luck. Squeezing out a cheap basehit when you’re the last at bat of a no hitter just doesn’t sit well with me. There will be other times, other places where doing that are good and damned well appropriate. I just don’t think it was right there.
This is all moot since he was out, but if he was ruled safe, would it have been a bigger deal?
The Marlins probably would have made a big deal out of it, but I’d be totally on Byrnes’s side. The shortstop flubbed the play, and the official scorer either called it an error or awarded the hit (probably called it an error).
But the rules of any game need to be enforced consistently, and one of them clearly describes un what circumstances the batter is out. And that wasn’t one of them.
There are no unwritten rules that need to be governed by the umpires.
There are no unwritten rules that need to be governed by the umpires.,
And they maintain consistent strikezones too.
No they don’t.
But they should.