Daily Tidbits

Dave · October 10, 2006 at 11:41 am · Filed Under Mariners 

Some interesting news today.

First off, Daisuke Matsuzaka will officially be posted this winter. Good to get that technicality out of the way.

Also, Joe Torre will return to manage the Yankees next year. If you believe the rumor mill, this means Alex Rodriguez will probably be traded. The Angels keep popping up as a possibility, which would suck, because I’d rather they not get another all-star. John Hickey pens a weird piece in the P-I this morning putting forth the possibility of trading Beltre for Rodriguez. I can’t see the Yankees being interested, I can’t see Rodriguez being interested, and I’m not totally sure the Mariners should be interested, honestly. One of the untold stories of the past year and a half has been A-Rod’s massive defensive decline; he’s now barely a passable major league third baseman, and any ideas of him playing shortstop again are probably out the window.

And finally, looking through the RSVP emails, it looks like we still have spots open for this Friday’s USSM get together. Forget Bob Dylan; he’s in town more often than I am, and he’s not going to feed your baseball fix. If you don’t have any plans Friday night, you really should come. You won’t regret it.


141 Responses to “Daily Tidbits”

  1. Jim Thomsen on October 10th, 2006 5:31 pm

    #96: So what explains David J. Corcoran?

  2. Dan W on October 10th, 2006 5:40 pm

    I personally do not buy the argument of ‘everyone with a brain would have done what Alex did” when he left Seattle. I don’t buy it now and I did not buy it in 2000. Some things money cannot buy, and Alex if finding all about those things plying his trade in New York. It’s accepted that he’s dying to be liked, he’s all about his numbers, has aspirations to the HOF. There are numerous comments in this thread, and lots of things you can see and read with your own two eyes, that suggest strongly that his contract is a direct impediment to his non-monetary objectives, not to mention his mental well-being.

    Alex was being offered the keys to the City by the Mariners. He could have been the Man for as long as he wanted. Every guy would want to be him and every woman would want to be with him and all that crap. Also, he could have afforded to live pretty well on the salary.

    I feel badly for him, and I’d take him back, but he’s getting exactly what he deserves right now.

  3. gwangung on October 10th, 2006 5:52 pm

    I personally do not buy the argument of ‘everyone with a brain would have done what Alex did” when he left Seattle. I don’t buy it now and I did not buy it in 2000.

    I certainly do.

    Given what the two teams offered, there were cases to be made for both of them. A pay difference of 25% is RATIONALLY a deciding factor.

    Sorry, but that’s just sour grapes and he certainly does NOT deserve all the abuse.

  4. Dan W on October 10th, 2006 6:08 pm

    100 – so EVERY reasonable person would rather be Alex now instead of a slightly less wealthy yet still fabulously wealthy Alex universally beloved in his chosen city and boo’d on the road only because opposing fans know you’re going to crush their hopes at some point during that evening’s event?

    Certainly some reasonable people would, and I don’t make the case that they don’t have a strong argument. But not me, and not all. I believe that’s why alot of folks in Seattle don’t like him, and not all of them are being stupid about it.

  5. Coach Owens on October 10th, 2006 6:21 pm

    In other Mariner news Tom Newberg has resigned as assistant trainer. To replace him the Mariners have named Rob Nodine new assistant trainer.

  6. SoulofaCitizen on October 10th, 2006 6:29 pm

    What always bothered me (and still does)is all his talk about how he’d stay if the Mariners fielded a competitive team, and then jumping. Where if he’d been upfront that he’d be “looking at the different offers” they might have gotten something for him in trade–especially as they were under considerably more financial constraints at that point than now. I think that’s what made so many people furious and still does–where I don’t know any fan that is angry at Randy Johnson or Ken Griffey, both of whom allowed the Mariners to get something in return

  7. mln on October 10th, 2006 6:31 pm

    Derek Jeter may have gotten a racist death threat or two in his career, but Captain Dreamboat is adored in New York City and by the American media in general.

    There are some guys (cough, Tim McCarver) who seem to have a case of unrequited Man-Love for the Captain.

  8. Josh on October 10th, 2006 6:41 pm

    I know of many fans who are upset at Griffey Jr. and Johnson.

    No, not as many, but we should be realistic.

  9. Ralph Malph on October 10th, 2006 7:12 pm

    The amazing thing about this thread is that it was post 102 before Griffey’s name appeared. And even then it wasn’t a “bring back Griffey” post.

  10. terry on October 10th, 2006 7:17 pm

    #99: I didn’t imply *everyone with a brain* would’ve done what Alex did-I implied EVERYONE would’ve…..

    The next closest offer was rumored to be at least $50M less…. thats 5,000,000,000 pennies…. which needless to say fills ALOT of piggy banks….

  11. Murton on October 10th, 2006 7:18 pm

    I remember reading a preseason article about A-Rod gaining weight during the offseason presumably because he wanted to keep his strength throughout the regular season and into the postseason. Since he figured he didn’t need as much range at third, he thought the extra weight wouldn’t really hurt him much. Unfortunately for him, it looked it did. His range wasn’t as good, nor was his footwork and some of his throwing problems came from not setting his feet properly. Some of his other throwing errors just came from bad throwing mechanics. Unless his body has, in fact, lost a lot of its juice at his still young age, I think it’s possible he could still be a fine shortstop after he loses some weight.

  12. Deanna on October 10th, 2006 7:55 pm

    I just want to say that I find it extremely suspect that English-language news sites are saying Matsuzaka WILL be posted, whereas Japanese-language news sites are saying “Ohta says he’s going to talk with Matsuzaka at some point soon and make a decision about whether or not to post him”.

    I feel like someone’s gotten some wires crossed or mistranslated somewhere.

  13. darrylzero on October 10th, 2006 8:32 pm

    Or Boras is trying to leverage the decision.

  14. imissbluewave on October 10th, 2006 8:34 pm

    Shh . . . you’re not supposed to rain on the Matsuzaka parade. He will be posted, he will put up an ERA under 3, and he won’t win the Rookie of the Year because sportswriters don’t think Japanese imports are really rookies. It’s all been decided already.

  15. msb on October 10th, 2006 9:26 pm

    I feel like someone’s gotten some wires crossed or mistranslated somewhere

    oh, like that would ever happen between here and Japan…. 🙂

  16. mln on October 11th, 2006 1:48 am

    re #108

    Well, if ESPN, the Worldwide Leader in Sports, and the Anglophone media print something, it must be true, shouldn’t it? I mean they did nail that “Terrell Owens Tried to Commit Suicide” story … or not.

  17. frenchonion on October 11th, 2006 8:28 am

    Manny was asked a couple of days ago about a potentential Angels trade. I’m paraphrasing, but he said “No, I only want to go to the National League.”

    Might just be Manny Being Manny, who knows?

  18. Evan on October 11th, 2006 9:31 am

    Manny only wants to go to the National League? Does that mean Dunn’s going to Boston?

    Before trading him, maybe Boston should try the irrevocable waivers route, again.

  19. Evan on October 11th, 2006 9:34 am

    Couldn’t his (much-publicized) defensive woes be partially attributed to A-Rod’s mental state during this year?

    This reasoning lead to the funniest commentary I’ve heard so far this postseason. After Marcus Thames hit that broken bat single over A-Rod, the commentary went:

    “Thames’s bat, like A-Rod’s psyche, lies shattered out there by third base.”

  20. Phoenician Todd on October 11th, 2006 9:59 am

    Arod probably had the union breathing down his neck to take the larger of the offers as well. It would look bad for the big star to take less to stay with the team that brought him up, it could depress dollars in the future for others.

    Random note, I loved the article Caple wrote about trading Jeter. Point #5 in particular is particularly groovy.


  21. msb on October 11th, 2006 10:07 am

    huh. Thiel thinks that the Ms should have moved away from the high-priced free agents & kept their draft picks years ago…

  22. Evan on October 11th, 2006 10:38 am

    He thinks that now. Did he think that years ago?

    Neither position makes sense as a universal axiom. The pitfalls are giving away draft picks to sign lousy players (or players who had compensation-free equivalents).

  23. Wishhiker on October 11th, 2006 11:45 am

    Thiel didn’t think that years ago, but it fits with the hindsight that A-Rod should have known the most rediculous contract offer ever was going to cost him so much more and he should’ve known?.?.?

    If A-rod left the Mariners because he thought they had little chance to contend, how come 2 months later he said that the Mariners would win 115 games in his absence, and Ichiro would hit .350. He knew what this team was capable of, but 1/4 again the overall money lured him away…

    But it wasn’t 25% more because Seattle’s offer according to Lincoln was 5yrs (According to A-Rod it was only 3 years) and ‘would make him the highest paid player’. Lets break that down, since exact figures weren’t made available:

    At that time it was either overall contract or per year that Lincoln was speaking of. Texas’ offer was exactly double the previous record for a sports contract: a six-year, $126 million agreement in October 1997 between Kevin Garnett and the Minnesota Timberwolves. The previous high for a baseball player was set just days before A-Rods signing: an eight-year, $121 million contract between left-hander Mike Hampton and the Colorado Rockies. Lincoln, however, may have been speaking of an offer made before that. Until then, baseball’s largest deal had been a nine-year, $116.5 million contract agreed to by Ken Griffey Jr. and the Cincinnati Reds at the time of the trade. If Lincoln was talking about overall contract the M’s offer must have been 5/116.5+ (Griffey’s contract seems the obvious benchmark)which at a minimum was worth 23.3+ million a year. The M’s probably didn’t offer that much a year. If I knew for sure that the M’s offerred this much I would be upset about A-Rod leaving. The fact that it seems the M’s could have saved face by making numbers like this public is reason to beleive they didn’t go this high. They never released any figure for how much they offered.

    When it comes to Avg. salary A-Rod fell short of the highest average salary in sports. Los Angeles Lakers center Shaquille O’Neal averaged $29.5 million in an three-year, $88.5 million extension that started with the 2003-04 season. Michael Jordan made about $33 million in 1997-98, his final season in the NBA. The highest avg. salary on a baseball contract was Brown’s $15 million. According to this the M’s offerred 5/75+ (15m avg+) which falls way short of 252. Even assuming the M’s went to a $20 million average that’s 5/$100 million. That figure would mean he got a 252% pay increase to move to texas (overall guaranteed money). Give me a 252% pay increase and I’ll move anywhere. Twice the guaranteed length. 3 opportunities to opt out. I’d give it a try too.

    Lastly if A-Rod’s claim that the M’s only offered 3 years I see plenty more reason to be upset at the M’s.

    Re:Mariners acquiring A-Rod. I think the most opportunity for the M’s to get involved in a trade for A-Rod is as a 3rd party. Like; Mariners trade Beltre, receive prospects…Yankees trade A-Rod, receive Beltre + prospects…Padres trade prospects (to both NY and SEA), receive A-Rod.

    I hope that trade doesn’t happen unless some other way to cover 3B is discovered before then.

    RE: Gillick. I thought everyone knew that Gillick was Piniella’s GM. He was the one who would supply Piniella with the veterans he wanted at all costs. We were finally going to get to see what it was that Piniella envisioned. It was at least nearly as much Piniella’s fault that the cupboards went bare. Anyone who can blame Gillick and want to bring back Lou seems very clueless to me. They are perfectly suited to being together as Yankees GM/Manager.

  24. Christopher on October 11th, 2006 12:41 pm

    Alex didn’t have a lot of ties to Seattle other than the fact that he was drafted by the team. He was extremely well loved at the time. When someone offers you a quarter of a billion dollars guranteed you take that deal.

    Especially when you take in account how old he was when that deal was made. I hold no grudges towards a 20 year old securing the future of the next couple of generations with one signature.

  25. Christopher on October 11th, 2006 12:47 pm

    And when I say 20 year old I mean some on in their twenties… not literally 20 years old

  26. msb on October 11th, 2006 1:08 pm

    Lincoln, however, may have been speaking of an offer made before that.

    in ’99 the Ms offered Alex 8/$117.5M plus a $16M bonus

  27. Jed C on October 11th, 2006 1:12 pm

    I can’t see how anyone can get mad at Rodriguez for signing the $252 million – like they would say no. If he handles things correctly, all of his offspring for eternity or near-eternity will never have to work, have the opportunity to get great educations, live the life of luxury, etc.

    I also can’t see why Red Sox fans boo him other than the fact he is a Yankee. He offered to REDUCE the total $ of his contract to play there, but the union wouldn’t let him. Just another reason among a million to hate the Red Sox fans. After living in New England for almost 10 years, Red Sox fans are about a million times worse than Yankess fans.

  28. Graham on October 11th, 2006 1:25 pm

    What? How is $25M/year substantially different to $20M/year?

    After you’re making tens of millions of dollars per season of baseball, five here and there isn’t going to massively impact your lifestyle.

    I would take $20M to play for the Mariners over $25M for the Yankees, were I somehow given the gift of being a baseball superstar.

  29. gwangung on October 11th, 2006 1:30 pm

    What? How is $25M/year substantially different to $20M/year?

    By about $5 million a year (20% at least).

    For a stats-related board, that’s not a hard question to answer…

  30. Coach Owens on October 11th, 2006 1:35 pm

    Well at least we’ll never have to see Cruceta start again. (probably) He’s been claimed of waivers by the Rangers.

  31. Christopher on October 11th, 2006 2:03 pm

    #124 But thats because you are a Seattle fan.

  32. Wishhiker on October 11th, 2006 2:06 pm

    124…When the guaranteed contract is twice as long at 25 million a year and you’re choosing to play for the Rangers not the Yankees.


    I see a HUGE difference

  33. Wishhiker on October 11th, 2006 2:09 pm

    And Texas seemed like a better place to continue hitting your way to the HOF

  34. gwangung on October 11th, 2006 2:17 pm

    Texas is a might closer to where he grew up and has a stronger Hispanic community. I don’t think it’s out of line for A-Rod to have considered that.

  35. Christopher on October 11th, 2006 2:19 pm

    Not to mention at the time their owner wanted to buy a championship so I’m sure he saw glory in his future.

  36. Wishhiker on October 11th, 2006 2:22 pm

    The downside was learning a new organization at $150 million extra in a better hitters park I think it seemed worth dealing with.

  37. Graham on October 12th, 2006 2:22 am

    #125: I had hoped that people would answer that question on a deeper level than ‘20%’, really.

  38. gwangung on October 12th, 2006 8:11 am

    #125: I had hoped that people would answer that question on a deeper level than ‘20%’, really.

    And I hoped that people would ask questions on a deeper level than rank jealousy.

    It was not a particularly perceptive criticism; all things being equal, a pay differential of 20% is significant. You MUST argue that there are things that overcome that pay differential–and you simply didn’t do that. What? You thought that fans in Texas WOULDN’T love him if he brought them a winner?

    And you certainly have been getting much deeper answers, both before and after your comment…..

  39. Graham on October 12th, 2006 3:55 pm

    #139: ‘Rank jealousy’? Hardly. I never followed the Mariners when A-Rod was part of the team – so why would I be jealous? I’m not particularly envious of people with money and as a Brit I have no real need for baseball skills. It’s not as though Cambridge is a hotbed for scouts.

    Yeah, all things are equal. Right. You could pay me minimum wage, and I’d find a 20% payrise insignificant. You can pay me 500K/year, and I wouldn’t much care if I got that extra 20% or not. If it doesn’t push you into another economic bracket, it means that essentially nothing changes in your lifestyle, especially at higher ends. At that point, you’re ridiculously rich no matter how you slice it.

    But hey, that was apparently addressed both before and after my comment. I must figure out a way to unhide those sneaky comments that I apparently cannot read.

    And #132, the difference in years is also a matter of insurance: it’s not as though Alex wouldn’t get that money as a free agent after this year anyway unless he’d exploded or something in between now and 2001.

  40. gwangung on October 13th, 2006 8:21 am

    Well, I see you’re impervious to comments. Au revoir.

  41. Wishhiker on October 14th, 2006 12:13 pm

    I recall saying it was 252% not 20% pay increase (which is however incorrect, it’s 152% increase)…and even if you’re just including the equal time 5/100 which, to my knowledge, has never even been corroborated as having been offered by the M’s to 5/125 is a 25% increase, based upon speculation of what the M’s might have offered. Again A-rod claimed that the M’s only offerred 3 years which even at the same $20 million assumption would mean he took a 320% pay increase over the life of the contract, again while moving from a pitcher-friendly park to a hitter-friendly park. In retrospect the comparison is more unbalanced because 25 million is far beyond what people are getting now and likely more than he would have gotten as a FA after his first 5 years (or even 3). At the time of the signing A-rod was loved throughout baseball and I’m not sure if anyone had an inkling that public backlash would be so severe for someone agreeing to accept a rediculous contract. No one can legitimately claim that it was A-Rods fault Hicks put the offer out. A-rod said that the offer from texas was about 20million a year and suddenly jumped to 25. Had A-rod gotten injured in 2001 severely enough to haveto retire the difference remains at least double (152%-320% more). The fact that he was gauranteed money for 10 years, whether playing or not, is a larger part of the rediculous value of the contract than the $5million a year speculated difference over the five years that may have been offered by the M’s.

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