M’s lose Cruceta
In one of those stupid-decisions-that-didn’t-have-to-be-made, the M’s have lost Francisco Cruceta to the Rangers on waivers.
We’ve talked about Cruceta quite a bit around here. I was a fan when they claimed him, and praised the organization for taking a flyer on him. He pitched well for Tacoma but was terrible in his ridiculously small sample in a September callup. The M’s were never huge fans, and with the extreme depth of potential bullpen arms, decided to remove him from the 40-man-roster, since he was out of options and was unlikely to make the club next spring.
That the M’s decided to waive Cruceta, when they have so much dead wood on the 40 man, and are willing to hand guaranteed multiyear deals to guys like Julio Mateo, is part of what is so frustrating about being a Mariner fan. There was no reason to even try and pass the PCL leader in strikeouts through waivers, and despite their reservations about his flaws, he’s worth keeping around.
The offseason gets off to a bad start, as once again, they focus on what a player can’t do, and not on what he can.
Why on earth would they do this when they could deep-six Piñeiro?
Cruceta will pwn us next season.
UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVEABLE!! Although I would like to point out that the offseason officially got off to a bad start with the announcement that Grover was going to still be here.
Heck, the offseason got off to a bad start when Dan Rohn got fired.
RIP, Cory Lidle.
OT, but reports are that Corey Lidle has been killed when his small plane crashed in NYC….
If the offseason got off to a bad start when Rohn was fired, then it really got off to a bad start when they traded Cabrera. Or something.
Cory Lidle? WTF?
That’s a weird story.
That’s terrible about Lidle. I feel horrible thinking about his family when they learned that their son/husband/dad was dead. As Corco said RIP Cory.
The plane in the crash was registered to Cory Lidle (or rather, the ownership was in the process of transfering to him). Reports from the scene say his passport was found in debris on the street. Shades of Thurman Munson.
I get confused about this waiver thing. Is this one of those deals where they can pull him back and work out a trade or was it a “Don’t let the door hit you…” version?
Don’t let the door hit you.
Back to Cruceta: this is definitely one to hang around the neck of Bavasi. What could they possibly have been thinking?
Why on earth would they do this when they could deep-six Piñeiro?
Think they’ll have to do that in addition to Cruceta….
Perhaps this is question #2 for the feed in the spring.
Given the state of pitching in the world, maybe they did, but why not let the word out that the strikeout leader from the PCL is available? They did this with Mike Jackson I think a few years ago. He went on to pitch a few more seasons which makes you believe that there had to be some value.
But I have to agree with Dave…there was value in Cruceta that they didn’t have to just toss away….
Sad, and strange about Lidle.
This move really is incomprehensible, not because I think Cruceta could have been so great for us (maybe but that’s not what’s so irksome about it), but because he’s such an obvious trade chip. It just seems so strange.
Dave, is there some reason they needed to clear 40-man space before looking at the trade market this offseason? Is this all Bavasi or a more organizational decision? Does the organization not think he would be useful piece in a trade? Is Hargrove still fuming about that one horrible 1st inning he had and talking Bavasi’s ear off about it? Did they really think they would succeed in passing him through? What would even be the big payoff if we did manage to sneak him through?
I don’t expect anyone to answer any of those question, just my reactions. But, here’s one: how does this compare to trying to sneak Carvajal through? Even more stupid, right? Argh.
Reminds me of Madritsch who, however, did not pitch at all this season.
Sneaking Carvajal through wasn’t bad, the dude had issues and started to suck upon arriving at ST. That was a deal where we as fans didn’t like it, but people higher up knew something we didn’t, and he posted average numbers for AA Montgomery.
Yeah, I was starting to gather that Carvajal wasn’t turning out too well; always good to remember that for all of the frustration, they usually do know best. Not always by any stretch of the imagination, but usually.
The M’s have to activate a bunch of guys from the 60-day DL, which is only used during the season, so they have some roster spots to clear. They foolishly chose to try to sneak Cruceta through to clear one of those spots, when there were a host of other options.
How far can we get toward a list of guys it would make more sense to try to sneak through and/or cut? If Pineiro and Meche are 2 of the 4 more that need dropping we have to come up with three guys. Mateo and Rivera seem like obvious choices, though the organization clearly values both of them.
How much does branding matter? Rivera, Mateo, Dobbs, are all guys who really have the Mariner brand to some extent, and that’s probably a big part of the decision. I’m not sure that’s so wrong, but this seems like overdoing it.
Is this a situation where the whole NL had to pass on him first? Seems like the Marlins or some other pitchers’ park team might have had more reason to give him a try than the Rangers.
Foppert, Campillo, Nageotte, Livingston, Cortez, Pineiro, Jimenez, Rivera, Dobbs, and Bohn can all be removed from the 40 man without seeing any real long term cost to the organization.
When I said a lot of dead wood, I wasn’t kidding. About 25% of the current 40 man roster could be waived.
How much does branding matter? Rivera, Mateo, Dobbs, are all guys who really have the Mariner brand to some extent, and that’s probably a big part of the decision. I’m not sure that’s so wrong, but this seems like overdoing it.
Branding is fine when all things are equal, but the talent sure doesnt seem equal with Dobbs and Rivera (less so with Mateo, but still). And I think it’s less branding, but that these guys fit a template in temperment and attitude, which, again, is fine when all things are equal, but surely does not compensate for lack of talent.
So, the question is: What’s the point in redeveloping a farm system if the people on top don’t know how to assess its talent?
So, the only question I really have here then is: Bavasi decision or team decision? I mean, I still like Bavasi for the most part, but trying to out-think baseball on this instead of just cutting the guys that needs to be cut seems like it could be a weakness. Maybe not an important one, but still annoying. I guess I see now that Borchard and Carvajal were basically the right decision (or unimportant enough players that it doesn’t matter at all), so maybe he just screwed up this one time (in this particular vein of decision making). But my gut is sensing a tendency.
Which of the above-listed players do you think the organization actually values over Cruceta? Certainly Dobbs, probably Livingston and maybe Jimenez (love those lefties…). Nageotte might be scary to drop because of former-top-prospect status, maybe the same with Foppert. Seems like Foppert, Campillo, Cortez, and Nageotte were probably all better bets to “sneak through” waivers though, at this point in time. Odd.
So, the question is: What’s the point in redeveloping a farm system if the people on top don’t know how to assess its talent?
Fans gotta hope that they develop talent so huge that even an idiot can see it….
This move is continuing evidence that the Mariners are either unable or unwilling to properly evaluate the talent they have, or the available talent of other teams that is, or may be available to be acquired in the future. Certainly not earth scattering, but another discouraging sign nonetheless.
At what point during the offseason is it the best time to try to sneak someone through? Is it now (October), or is it at a later point? If they figure they’ll probably have to waive him at some time this winter, and now is better than later, maybe the aforementioned dreck will get dropped at that later time.
This move is continuing evidence that the Mariners are either unable or unwilling to properly evaluate the talent they have, or the available talent of other teams that is, or may be available to be acquired in the future. Certainly not earth scattering, but another discouraging sign nonetheless.
That seems to be a trend of several years for the team. Not sure they’re gigantically worse than other teams, but they seem to be distinctly poorer, which is not a good thing….
This is a really sickening discussion note on that Lidle article but I knew someone would post it:
It’s A-Rod’s fault..if he would have gotten a few hits we would still be playing
Submitted by: Corey Lidle
6:05 PM EDT, Oct 11, 2006
Good example of a person who actually deserves such a fate.
31. Josh, where’d you see THAT? That’s a pretty crass unfunny comment. I was just over at a Red Sox fan message board, and there’s no joking about that there. RIP Cory Lidle, and it’s awful to contemplate the NOK notification (it’s said that his wife and kid were on a commercial flight for California at the time of the small plane crash).
——–
As for Cruceta, this is probably the end of his major league career, unless the Rangers give up on him even faster. I don’t think the Ballpark at Arlington has done ANY major league pitchers any good for their careers.
Karen, it was in the same Newsday article. I saw it on the second page, but I’m not sure if the comments are rotating per each view or what.
Some people… are just beyond words.
Sigh…
It will be interesting to see if Cruceta goes back to the delivery he had earlier in the year when he joins Texas.
When he was up with Seattle I saw him really struggling with his mechanics – switching in and out with the the drop and drive/rotational deliveries.
If Cruceta goes back to the rotational delivery he could end up really coming back to haunt us (in the starting rotation).
I just happened to note the date today. 10/11/06. Five years and a month to the day… No wonder people in Manhattan are scared out of their wits.
Back to Cruceta. . .
Geez, you guys are paranoid.
Cruceta probably had no place in our bullpen or rotation going forward in the future anyways, and he obviously showed this year that he’s not ready for the big leagues yet.
And now you guys are worried that he’ll come back to haunt us while pitching in The Ballpark In Arlington.
Yes he could’ve been used as trade bait, but letting him slip away to Texas isn’t the worst thing in the world. Trust me. . .
Besides, the Rangers are going to be a mess next year from what I can tell anyways considering they have so many of their good players filing for free agency and will need to cut payroll a little bit. Plus, next year they will have to transition into having a new manager, which could be shaky if it’s not someone in house, keep in mind that the Rangers are mostly interviewing first-time canidates for manager.
So please, just relax.
What M’s really need to focus on right now at this moment is extending Ichiro’s contract and the wild big coming up for Matszuaka.
Anyways. . .R.I.P. Cory Lidle, how shocking and sad
wild bid*
Sorry for the misspelling
Seven innings don’t show anything.
Us guys? Who is that, exactly? I think it would be difficult to really make the case that very many of the above comments is paranoid. I think if you look closely at the thread you’ll find at most a couple of people who think he has the chance to actually haunt us on the field. And even they don’t appear particularly confident in the possibility.
The rest of us are disappointed, but we would not use words like horrible or disastrous or even dangerous. We would use words like wasteful or unnecessary. We’re irritated because we just tossed away a legitimate trade chip (though not the key to any deal) to hang onto a bunch of worthless trade chips.
No one is saying this is a disaster, but that doesn’t make it insignificant. It’s part of a pattern that we’re not very happy with, and it sacrificed organizational depth for no reason at all. That’s annoying.
I saw him as a useful bullpen arm in the future.
One guy from the Tacoma squad I didn’t wanna see go.
And of course, another player given away.
C’mon!
Cruceta probably had no place in our bullpen or rotation going forward in the future anyways, and he obviously showed this year that he’s not ready for the big leagues yet.
If Cruceta had no place on the M’s pitching staff, neither do Jake Woods or Cha Seung Baek, both of whom have inferior peripherals and inferior stuff.
Letting small sample size in the majors outweigh lack of stuff and inability to fool MLB hitters is why Ryan Franklin got to suck ass for this team in 2004-2005 while he was being paid millions of dollars, and it’s a mistake this team is apparently going to repeat again- since the letfhanded and Korean versions of Franklin are going to compete for the last spot in the rotation, apparently.
As has been said here before, Cruceta in 2006 is maybe JJ Putz in 2002- a bullpen conversion away from being a decent MLB arm. The Rangers, if they are smart, are going to figure that out
Well obviously 2 franchises (Cleveland and Seattle) that are both trying to rebuild their farm systems obviously saw something that would lead them to believe Cruceta would not work out for them in the long term.
He got shelacked by Kansas City in one of his starts for crying out loud!
The thing that stands out to me about this story is how people are just overreacting to this move. If this move happened in 2001, it probably would have been shrugged off in 2 hours because this fanbase had complete confidence in Pat Gillick and the front office that they would get the best talent possible.
Even if it meant throwing out a couple good prospects along the way.
Now here we are in 2006 and we are stressing over the release of a pitcher who may not ever make a big impact in big league baseball.
It’s amazing how the confidence in this franchise to make the right moves has gone dramatically down in the last 5 years.
Yeah, this whole plane business is very strange. I saw the smoke billowing out my window – I’m on 68th and York – and my heart jumped. I can’t believe that they allow small planes over Manhattan to begin with. The scary thing is, right away the cell phone networks jammed, again.
Anyway… I think its a shame to see Cruceta go without being given a chance to develop properly, but doesn’t Texas now have to keep him on their 25 man all year? If that is the case then we may not be in quite so much trouble. I mean, the guy had talent, but he still had issues and unless he can resolve them all this winter he will likely do more harm than good. I’m not saying that I’m glad to see him go, I just don;t see it as a tragedy.
Please note that I did NOT say “Putz in 2006″. Lot of things would have to break right for Cruceta to be THAT good. But add a couple miles to his stuff in the bullpen, and he becomes the 2004-2005 version of Putz, or the version of Julio Mateo that used to be able to strike people out- a solid RH bullpen arm in the 7th/8th inning. That’s a useful player.
It’s amazing how the confidence in this franchise to make the right moves has gone dramatically down in the last 5 years.
Perhaps it’s because they don’t actually MAKE the right moves, and the Mariners have had their worst three years in succession since the 1970’s?
And that’s the operant statement in your post.
He got shelacked by Kansas City in one of his starts for crying out loud!
The numbers make it look that way. I remember watching the game.
First two guys got on by weak groundballs, one that barely squeaked through the infield and another that the runner was just safe. The third guy got on on a borderline 3-2 pitch that should have been called a strike. Cruceta then serves up a Grand Slam to Ryan Shealy, who in his own right is a good hitter. It was actually a pretty good pitch.
I remember saying to myself “Small sample size is going to kill his chances.”
Now here we are in 2006 and we are stressing over the release of a pitcher who may not ever make a big impact in big league baseball.
In the situation that the Mariners are in it helps to keep these guys around. Cruceta misses bats and has a quality splitter, IMO had the highest upside of any AAA arm we have right now.
Rebuilding. You fill it out with these kinds of guys.
Tom, just because you say everyone here is stressed over this does not make it true. Just because Cruceta may not ever turn into a real major leaguer does not make dropping him smart. Just because the “fanbase” had “total confidence” in Gillick certainly does not mean that this community in particular didn’t blast him for giving away talent for free all the goddamn time.
When we fail to trade for an interesting arm this offseason or give away a prospect we’d rather keep, we’ll talk again. I can’t imagine that conversation will be any more productive than this one, though, since you’re more interested in characturing other opinions than in actually having a conversation about any of this.
Oops, characaturing, sorry. I don’t actually think it’s a real word, either, but you get the idea.
Yeah, but you can only have so many guys who might eventually rot away in the minors.
I agree that Gillick should’ve tried to build a minor league system, but you still can have only so many minor leaguers you want to rebuild with.
Two guys, 7 IP in the majors: one with an 0.00 ERA against the Yankees, no hits, no walks; the other with a 27.00 ERA in three games against the Royals, a zillion hits, ten walks. What can you tell about these two pitchers?
Nothing, nothing at all. The first guy could very easily never get another hitter out, while the second guy could win 300 games. Or vice versa. It’s not weak evidence; it’s NOT EVIDENCE, PERIOD, of anything at all.
I agree with Dave 100%: this team is going to great lengths to protect total dead wood that is of no interest to anyone, and who wouldn’t be missed for a second if they did take them. Cruceta’s upside may not be remarkable, but it’s not nothing, and we didn’t learn anything about it against Kansas City.
The point here is that Pinero could have been dropped instead. Cruceta has a little value in potential (who really knows what), while we can all agree that Jo-el has no future here at all. That is what makes the decision so disappointing.
Pineiro will be gone though once the M’s non-tender him, I think they have to wait until the offseason first.
Tom, really, just go re-read Dave’s post #23. The whole story is right there. None of the rest of this matters. I think we can all agree that Cruceta probably has a brighter future than most (though not necessarily all) of the players Dave listed there.
Like I said before, not a disaster. No one is saying it’s a disaster. But it is stupid and Dave’s post tells you everything you need to know about why.
I don’t agree so much anymore that Gillick left the basement bare, and this info is a part of the reason
Also worth noting: Foppert, Nageotte, and Cortez have been removed from the 40 man roster. I’m sure we’ll hear about their fates in the next few days. Not counting Meche, that gets the roster down to 40. We’ll probably see a few more names go down in the next couple weeks to make room for Brian LaHair, Mike Wilson, Rob Johnson, Michael Garciaparra, and/or Yung Chi Chen.
not to mention Matsuzaka?
Foppert, per ESPN, has been released.
It’s a real word, but it’s spelled “caricaturing”.
Like I said before, not a disaster. No one is saying it’s a disaster. But it is stupid
Which is what people are grousing about.
They’re being stupid in the little things like evaluation of talent. Which is idiotic for an organization that preaches “doing the little things right” to its players.
The problem isn’t that losing Cruceta is a big deal in itself. The problem is that it is additional evidence that the Mariners’ talent evaluators don’t know how to evaluate talent. If you want to figure out if an organization is smart, the first place to look is at the margins, not at the big deals. Can the organization assemble a decent bench out of free parts? Can the organization find free bullpen talent? Does the organization make smart waiver claims. Does it understand who it should protect from, and expose to, waivers? Etc.
I would assert that the Ms under Bavasi have shown themselves to be absolutely terrible at the margins.
#36– but the Rangers are going to win the WS next year– they just made the magic move of dumping Showalter!
#57– ah, Marinersrevolution….
When the 40 man roster shakes out, there might be a couple names on it that I’d rather have Cruceta over, but it won’t be a big difference.
Cruceta was out of options, which meant he had to make the team in 2007. I’d rather see Baek, Feierabend, Blackley, Woods, and even Campillo starting over Cruceta. And I like Soriano, Lowe, Huber, Mateo, Fruto, and Green better than him in the pen. For all his strikeouts, Cruceta has never really seemed too interested in preventing runs from scoring, hence his 3rd DFA in the last two years.
The DFA of Francisco Cruceta is indicative of nothing that can be stated in general terms about this organization.
When the 40 man roster shakes out, there might be a couple names on it that I’d rather have Cruceta over, but it won’t be a big difference.
Cruceta was out of options, which meant he had to make the team in 2007.
So? Make the decision THEN, not now.
Making the evaluation solely in terms of your own needs is short sided and stupid. If he doesn’t have value to your organization, does he have it to others? I would submit that a PCL strikeout leader does. It is then bloody stupid to throw that away without at least TRYING to get something for that.
The DFA of Francisco Cruceta is indicative of A LOT about this organization in quite specific terms.
During the upcoming days, Jorge Campillo, Travis Chick, Cesar Jimenez, Rene Rivera, Greg Dobbs, and T.J. Bohn should be designated for assignment.
And we just released Jesse Foppert, meaning we have NOTHING remaining from either the Randy Winn or Carlos Guillen trades. ’sigh’
We have Jose de la Cruz remaining, actually.
I would say reflexively that I have no clue what the Ms are doing trying to build their 40-man and depth in the org—but having watched Bavasi and his set, regretably I _do_ have a clue. See, these folks collect some useful spare parts on the basis of a good, deep scouting staff. This makes it seem like they have a plan. But Bill B.’s talent assessment ‘computer’ is a capacitor with only two states: making it/not making it. If somebody is, at a given time, not making it, the Ms development folks really, don’t, CARE. If the guy has some residual value, they just don’t care. There’s all this talk about challenging talent, and development through adversity, but if a guy doesn’t make it over the hurdle, first time out, the development staff, specifically Bavasi really, don’t, care.
If the team had a plan, it’s nonsensical to waive a guy with Cruceta’s upside when pretty hopeless cases like Campillo, Jimenez, and Cortez stacked like rubble on the roster. But their only plan is to find out who’s in and who’s out. Cruceta was on the outs with them, so he get’s tossed out.
I have very little interest in the ‘development strategy’ of this lot which is less than meets the eye. They collect guys, but really they’re just dredging for diamonds in the dreck, hoping to get lucky. They don’t actually _do_ development per se. This isn’t just about Cruceta: they’ve applied the same approach to a dozen guys, more or less, in their three years. Consider Hiram Boccachica, just as one name. Not real useful, but could actually provide depth at several spots, and not just on the 40-man but on the 25-man. They dumped him without ever replacing what he did, even now; he landed on another team’s 25-man to fill out depth there.
It’s an illusion that the Ms development team does development with these ‘roster fills’ moves and guys: they shoot craps, and if they don’t make their point fast they walk away.
I’m constantly amazed at Bela’s ability to convince himself that he knows what’s going on in other people’s minds, and be so totally wrong.
If you really think Bill Bavasi doesn’t care about these kids making it or not, you’re deceived.
It’s an illusion that the Ms development team does development with these ‘roster fills’ moves and guys: they shoot craps, and if they don’t make their point fast they walk away.
Right, because Ryan Feierabend, Mark Lowe, Emiliano Fruto, Jon Huber, and Eric O’Flaherty were just brilliant right out of the gates…
We realize you hate the front office. Try to hate them for reasons pertaining to reality.
Bavasi thinks he cares, and he very probably _does_ care—but he’s lousy at it. To the point where, practically speaking, it’s the same as if he doesn’t care. There’s no nuance, eptitude, higher level thinking, or master plan there; more like throwing darts while thinking one is planning. And when a guy doesn’t make his grade, I’ve consistently seen him throw residual value away like chaff; if that isn’t indifference, it’s a lack of competence at the margins which produces a comparable result. To me.
There may be a semantic haze here, Dave, which perhaps puts an acrid stench about this and similar posts which irritate your craw, Dave. You seem to think I’m looking inside Bavasi’s head: I’m not. I’m looking at a consistent pattern of behavior, and making an assessment about the meaning of that pattern over and above the intent of the actor. What Bavasi and his inner circle say is one thing; what they do is another, more important thing, which is often in disjunction with what they say. Now, I could, very carefully, phrase and parse my posts to make that approach and intent crystal clear. It’s not worth my time. Most folks here, you especially, can follow my intent, it’s clear.
. . . It says something though that you’re consistently more interested in ad hominem remarks about the poster when I make a remark than about the content. So I’ll say this: you seem to be consistently defending, directly and indirectly, the quality and hence value of Bavasi’s development team and the final result. I say that broadly, being well aware for example that you are directly critical of him and his team in your remarks on Cruceta’s wavier in this instance, as you are in many other instances. We can skip the boilerplate “Boy did you misunderstand me . . . ” remarks, I follow you well. But push come to shove, you seem to think Bavasi’s going in the right direction as I follow you posts over these several years, and specifically over the last several months. I don’t. Period. It’s clear you dislike my assessment there, and by all means feel free to disagree. But I know why you snipe away, and that’s why: you’re still on board with them, and I’m not. That’s it in a nutshell.
—But another two years of losing may shake you off his coattails. : )
Feierabend, Lowe, Huber, Fruto, and O’Flaherty will all matter more for the org in the near term, and any is more likely to make the roster than Cruceta—so why the post about how sucktastic and addled the waiving of Cruceta, then? You invite comment, Dave, but only to the tenor and stripe that suits _you_. Others of us have a different perspective.
It’s inaccurate to say that ‘I have the FO.’ I have no confidence in them overall. ANY COMPETENT FO would have promoted the five guys we just mention, and most would have done it faster than some of the guys they replaced on the 25-man. It’s no special points for this lot that they do the obvious.
Speaking of hating, since you feel free to remark about my views, I don’t come close to your way, way overboard dislike of Pat Gillick. I decided _not_ to post when you went off on your elliptical turn regarding his tenure the other day. It’s your blog, and the fact that you were and are DEAD SOLID WRONG about his tenure, in the main, doesn’t prevent you from having an opinion. And I’ll spare us all the post here I declined to write regarding Gillick there. But in the same vein, I’d appreciate a bit more restraint on your part on the ad hominem remarks regarding my intent and competency to have an opinion.
In my view, Bavasi’s lot will never win or build a complete roster. Nothing you may choose to infer or dislike about my perspective reverses those two _facts_ regarding their tenure. That’s reason enough for me to be sour on them. If they change those two _facts_ ever, I promise I’ll take that into account. When, if, and as. I’m not holding my breatch, ’cause ten years of handlessness is a proven and unbroken record.
Bela,
Here’s the thing that bothers me about your posts;
You think you can interpret someone’s actions and discern their motives. I hate that. You consistently take someone’s performance at their job and turn it into a statement about their character, intelligence, honesty, integrity, or morale fiber. I think that’s one of the most annoying, self-righteous kinds of analysis anyone can engage in, and you do it in almost every post.
Adrian Beltre swings at a slider in the dirt, and you proclaim him a mental midget, uncoachable, and someone who has no desire to improve.
Bill Bavasi puts Francisco Cruceta on waivers, and you decide that he doesn’t care about these players improvements.
If you continue to insist on taking personal swipes at people’s characters based on your perception of their performance, I’m going to continue to call you out on it.
If you want restraint in attacks on intent and competancy, look in the freaking mirror.
And, tell you what, Bela, I’ll make you a deal. If you’re really that annoyed that I point out the glaring biases in your posts, I’ll gladly put you in the moderation queue, read your posts before they hit the site, and approve anything that doesn’t take a swing at someone else’s character or motivations without comment.
If you can figure out how to talk about people without insinuating that your opinion of their quality of work gives you an insight into who they are as a person, then I’d have no problem with anything you write. But you haven’t written anything that would fall into that category in months.
So I’ll say this: you seem to be consistently defending, directly and indirectly, the quality and hence value of Bavasi’s development team and the final result.
Are we reading the same Dave?
I’m very sad that Foppert didn’t pan out. Remember when he was supposed to be the best pitching prospect in baseball? It wasn’t that long ago…
If you can figure out how to talk about people without insinuating that your opinion of their quality of work gives you an insight into who they are as a person, then I’d have no problem with anything you write. But you haven’t written anything that would fall into that category in months.
So your opinion of Bela’s work influences your opinion of Bela?
So your opinion of Bela’s work influences your opinion of Bela?
I haven’t written one word about Bela as a person. Every criticism I have leveled at him has been about the content of what his comments say, and I’ve never made any inferences as to what that says about his character or quality.
Bela is a male?
Although Dave dislikes my love of rosterbation and Ryan Howard, I nevertheless agree with his opinon regarding Bela. As it is, I think that Bela is “annoying” and “self-righteous,” too.
Yet, that notwithstanding, I’m more irritated with Bela’s overuse of underscores and syntactical errors more than his apparent smugness. Hell, as far as I’m concerned, it’s very difficult to read through one of Bela’s posts due to his poor grammar and mediocre writing skills.
At any rate, though, my opinion on the aforementioned issue is nugatory—there’s no denyin’ it!
#74: I’m sure you didn’t mean to imply this: ****You think you can interpret someone’s actions and discern their motives.****
Basically, it’s thru actions that character is revealed.
Now the notion that job performance is not indicative of character is of course dead-on, bullseye, split-the-arrow accurate….
I’ve heard rumblings around the Reds camp that Rudy Jaramillo (rangers hitting coach) will not remain as a member of the new staff that takes over in Texas. Might he be a good guy to have in the Ms clubhouse?
Yes.
Unfortunately, he is under contract for 2007, they love him so much they asked him to interview for the managerial job (he declined) and as Daniels is thinking they may go a first-time manager, he will undoubtably be told that Rudy comes with the job.
#65: But if they wanted to dump Cruceta, couldn’t they have either traded him or bundled him in a trade? He obviously has some value, at least to some teams if not directly to the M’s, so there would be the possibility of getting something for him.
Rather than nothing, which is what they got.
When a team seems to have an abundance of talent in one area (like the bullpen for the M’s right now) it seems to breed a groupthink that said talent has no value and can be easily replaced anytime.
In a year or two, maybe they’ll wish they had more help in the bullpen.
What’s frustrating is the M’s needed just 6 2/3 major league innings to determine that Cruceta was expendible. On the flip side, we get to see gutsy veterans like Boone, Olerud, Everett and others (soon to be Raul) stink up the joint on a daily basis for months on end before they determine they’re washed up.
What’s frustrating is the M’s needed just 6 2/3 major league innings to determine that Cruceta was expendible. On the flip side, we get to see gutsy veterans like Boone, Olerud, Everett and others (soon to be Raul) stink up the joint on a daily basis for months on end before they determine they’re washed up.
This might be standard m.o. for the current coaching staff (see Choo). And it may take some heavy pressure from other parts of the organization for Snelling to have gotten the bats that he did.
Granted, there is an understandable bias for veterans, and most managers prefer vets over rookies. But I think this group really allows internal preconceptions to dominate their perceptions of reality.
A lot of it is probably Hargrove. He decides who his starters are, and he trots them out there every day no matter what.
86. Oleruds “stinking up the joint” had nothing to do with being washed up. He has a great year as a bench player for the Red Sox last year.
Cruceta is mechanically unsound, has poor control so he walked a lot of guys (4.25/9IP in 2006 at AAA), and had a lot of wild pitches (18 last year.)
What you don’t see on television is that his plant foot is never “stable”, it’s always moving around, and as a result he’s all over the place. To extend that point further, he’s probably more likely to get hurt due to his inconsistent mechanics. It may be the M’s tried to fix that and finally just threw their hands up about it as “unfixable”.
If he’s ever more than a middling (read: fungable) major league reliever I’ll be surprised. I don’t see what the fuss is about.
What you don’t see on television is that his plant foot is never “stableâ€, it’s always moving around, and as a result he’s all over the place. To extend that point further, he’s probably more likely to get hurt due to his inconsistent mechanics. It may be the M’s tried to fix that and finally just threw their hands up about it as “unfixableâ€.
Given what the depth the Ms have in relief, I can see where they wouldn’t want to spend the time. But that may not and does not apply to other organizations who may very well want to spend the time to fix it. And may put up with the walks and strike outs. If there are organizations like that, then waiving Cruceta is downright stupid.
THAT is what the fuss is about. I don’t see why people see THAT.
The two key words from my post were “unfixable” and “fungible.”
Maybe Cruceta’s not fixable, any more than Shaq will ever be good at shooting free throws. (Or Kendall Gill ever developing a jump-shot with his atrocious mechanics..but I’m dating myself.)
No reason to get excited about who owns his rights. Have you seen *anyone* say Cruceta is a potential 1 or 2 starter? I haven’t. If Cruceta’s ceiling is 5th starter/long reliever, who cares if he stays or goes. He’s a fungible commodity. Let him go and move on to the next Cruceta, or Ed Vande Berg, or… whoever, they’re just names on uniforms at that point.
I’m sure that Bavasi knew exactly what he was doing when he exposed Cruceta to waivers. To characterize him as ignorant, unsophisticated or uncaring is not realistic. I was completely shocked by the move, and have been spending a lot of thought trying to understand it. Cruceta may not have a future with the Mariners, but he has obvious trade value.
At first I thought Bavasi was trying to sneak him through during the postseason, hoping no one would notice. Then I suspected he was doing it to make a point to Hargrove. “This guy you thought had no value was quickly taken by a division rival.”
By November 5th the roster has to be down to 40 players including the 5 players on the DL at season’s end. There is also about 5 players who need to be added to the roster because they are newly exposed to the Rule 5 Draft. Nothing new there.
Even if you DFA Rivera you have to add another catcher, and the only one with MLB experience is Quiroz. I don’t believe they are ready to give the back-up catcher position to Rob Johnson or Jeff Clement at this time.
Pineiro will be dropped and Campillo and Jimenez will probably also go. After that it gets tricky. We all assume Meche, Perez, Dobbs and Morse will also be dropped. Maybe not. Maybe they plan on trying to resign Meche before he talks to other teams. Maybe they intend to pick up the option on Perez. Maybe they don’t want to expose Dobbs and Morse to waivers.
Yes, I’m sure Bavasi would have loved to keep Cruceta into the December trade season, but it seems more reasonable that he believes they had to move him before the trade and FA season starts.