Vidro passes physical, trade official

DMZ · December 18, 2006 at 1:49 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

From Now that the trade’s done, we should get some comment out of the front office about what they were thinking, which will be disappointing and inadequate.


“Jose is a professional hitter,” Mariners general manager Bill Bavasi said. “We feel we can add him to our batting order anywhere from the second to the sixth spot and he will add production to our lineup. With the addition of Vidro and Jose Guillen (a free agent signed earlier this month) to our returning players, I think we are a much stronger offensive team.”

Snelling will be a better offensive player than Vidro next year. Pick your metric: OPS, VORP, EqA, whatever.

Word on the 2009 option:

Vidro, who waived a no-trade clause, had a 2009 vesting option added to his contract as part of the deal. If the option doesn’t become guaranteed, Vidro would receive a $500,000 payment.

Without knowing the details of the vesting option, it’s hard to say how bad that is.


186 Responses to “Vidro passes physical, trade official”

  1. bakomariner on December 19th, 2006 11:29 am

    the team we have to watch out for is the angels because of their rotation and their farm system…the a’s took a step back…and texas is texas…seattle should finish at least second in the west, and first if everything goes perfectly…have faith…the starters will be better (can’t be worse)…the offense will be better…and the ‘pen will hold…believe people…believe…

  2. Adam S on December 19th, 2006 11:30 am

    Zito: I sound like a broken record but “yuck”. Zito isn’t any good. OK, that’s hyperbole, but he’s a #3 or #4 starter who wants to be paid like he’s one of the best 20 starting pitchers in baseball. There’s zero chance the team that signs him is happy at the end of the contract.

    In fact, there’s zero chance he’s worth the contract in any one year though major league GMs and I will agree to disagree on what a $16M/year starting pitcher is.

  3. eponymous coward on December 19th, 2006 11:41 am

    PECOTA sucks at evaluating some players. It’s always hated Ichiro (every year it basically says it’s time for him to fall off of a cliff and start sucking ass now), and I suspect it always will.

    That being said, we shouldn’t be throwing babies out with bathwater.

    I would be very shocked if we pull off signing Zito. IIRC, the M’s had about 25 million to spend in the offseason. Batista + Guillen + Vidro is pushing 20 million, possibly more if Guillen hits his incentives. I suspect part of the Wave Of Unimpressive Moves is Bavasi saw the prices, asked senior management what to do, and got told ‘You have your budget, we expect you to spend it, you don’t get more”.

  4. eponymous coward on December 19th, 2006 11:44 am

    Signing Zito basically means we have to move salary (read: probably Sexson). I’m not seeing it, but hey, it could happen.

    If it DOES happen…man, what a mess for the next GM to clean up if it all washes out. We’ll be looking at some pretty awful times for a while.

  5. eponymous coward on December 19th, 2006 11:58 am

    Oh, and while I’m Corcoranizing the thread: some historical references of players who were BETTER than Vidro (as in: consistent All-Star/high finishes in MVP/actual HOF) moving to DH after some knee problems.

    Caveats apply- these are hitter’s in the 1970’s, much more of a pitcher’s era than today’s hitter friendly numbers, things change, and so on.

    Tony Oliva:

    Orlando Cepeda:

    That doesn’t really encourage me, to be honest. It doesn’t seem that DH’ing is the equivalent of the fountain of youth- it didn’t turn those players back into MVP-caliber hitters.

    There’s Paul Molitor, I suppose:

    Or Dave Winfield:

    except they were both better players, and even though Molitor had some injury history at a younger age, he was more durable than Vidro (and Winfield’s WAY more durable). They did spike some going to DH, I guess.

    Can anyone think of an example where of a hitter with chronic injury issues getting dramatically better (as in going back to career norms or improving on them) moving to DH WITHOUT involving Edgar? Because if we’re going to compare Vidro to players, he’s closer to Cirillo or Spiezio as far as talent and career path than Edgar, and we all know how THOSE worked out.

  6. Funkatron on December 19th, 2006 12:09 pm

    So what Bavasi is saying, is that we might have traded Soriano for a pitcher that will be ~competing~ for a job in Spring Training…but might just get shoved down to AAA or released. Nice.

  7. PositivePaul on December 19th, 2006 12:12 pm

    I suspect part of the Wave Of Unimpressive Moves is Bavasi saw the prices, asked senior management what to do, and got told ‘You have your budget, we expect you to spend it, you don’t get more”.

    There’s a term for that. It’s called “BrewVasiSter’s Millions” I think.

  8. Steve T on December 19th, 2006 12:16 pm

    I just noticed some fun on Vidro’s baseball-reference page. Similar batters? Todd Walker, John Valentin. Most similar through age 31: Carlos Baerga, Jeff Cirillo. Hmm. Baerga and Cirillo: pretty much the poster boys for the kind of player you want to keep off your team, huh?

  9. Dave Clapper on December 19th, 2006 12:50 pm

    I always liked Baerga, but that had more to do with his name being fun to say than him actually being any good. Kinda like Paniagua. (Say either in a Beavis voice. Go ahead. It’s fun!)

  10. Swungonandbelted on December 19th, 2006 12:58 pm

    I would have loved to have seen the M’s keep Snelling, but to look at it objectively, Snelling has as much of a chance if not more of never having a career in the bigs because of his health, as he does of becoming a solid player. My brother and I were talking about this over the weekend, and the name Ryan Anderson came up. I don’t know that I’m 100% against the trade now that a few days have passed, when looking at Snelling’s propensity for serious injuries. We had the opportunity to trade Anderson on more than one occasion, didn’t and then ended up releasing him and paying for his culinary school. I think that in looking at Vidro, there’s probably not much more we could have gotten for a minor league player who has had two ACL tears in the same knee, not to mention the myriad of other injuries that he has lost time to over the years. I would have loved to have seen Snelling in a M’s uniform, but I’m not convinced that he would have lasted. Part of me is glad that they tried to get something for a player with that kind of injury history, instead of hanging onto him and ending with nothing. flame on.

  11. lokiforever on December 19th, 2006 1:04 pm

    159 It’s not trading Snelling that has people in a fit of rage. It’s trading him unnecessarily. Vidro isn’t wortt the $6.0 Million a year, period. Absorbing most of his salary is a bad deal. Throwing in Snelling is insult to injury.

  12. bakomariner on December 19th, 2006 1:19 pm

    This was posted on

    “Mariners In On Zito?
    Larry Stone of the Seattle Times calls the Mariners a “decided longshot” in the Barry Zito sweepstakes, but also writes of rumblings in the baseball world that they could make him an offer. Given the likely price and commitment, I don’t think a Zito signing would redeem Bill Bavasi’s offseason.

    The rotation as it stands today:

    Felix Hernandez
    Jarrod Washburn
    Miguel Batista
    Horacio Ramirez
    Jake Woods

    Basically, King Felix plus four guys who pitch to contact. The White Sox made it work in ’05 with great defense, durability, and a little luck. Will the 2007 Mariner staff have those qualities?”

    I don’t think we’re going to win the world series like the before-mentions Chi-Sox, but it’s nice to see that not everyone is so doom-and-gloom…there is always a hope…

  13. msb on December 19th, 2006 1:23 pm

    four guys who pitch to contact. The White Sox made it work in ‘05 with great defense, durability, and a little luck. Will the 2007 Mariner staff have those qualities?”

    Batista sure hopes so– he made a point of mentioning it as a big selling point for Seattle…

  14. darrylzero on December 19th, 2006 1:26 pm

    Swungonandbelted, I’m sympathetic to a certain extent with what you’re saying, but in order for it to make any sense, Vidro would have to be a worthwhile acquisition. If not, which we don’t think he will be, we’re actually getting less for Snelling than we got for Anderson by waiting until no one wanted him at all.

  15. msb on December 19th, 2006 1:35 pm

    Jerry Crasnick is still trying to push Ichiro out the Mariners’ door….

  16. Brent Overman on December 19th, 2006 1:35 pm

    What gets me is that Vidro basically had no role with the team anymore, with the Nats using Guzman at SS and moving Felipe Lopez to second.

    Why is it that our GM sees other teams players who no longer have a position to play (Vidro) as a high-valued commodity yet treats his own players whom he leaves no position to play (Carlos Guillen) as if they’re worthless, flipping for a bag of trash? How does he not view Vidro as worth nothing more than a PTBNL or cash considerations? It’s that kind of logic and mindset that will keep this team from ever improving as long as the current regime is in power.

    We did the Nats a favor for taking Vidro, yet alone giving them anything in return.

    There’s simply no rationale to this move.

  17. msb on December 19th, 2006 1:40 pm

    from Greg Johns today:

    Why is everyone so critical about the Mariners acquiring Jose Vidro? If you ask me, this is a great move. The hard-hitting second baseman provides an excellent alternative to David Bell at that position. Not to mention, with Carlos Guillen just back from knee surgery, the M’s need insurance at third base. And Vidro combining with young shortstop Alex Rodriguez? Now there’s a nice double-play combo.

  18. dw on December 19th, 2006 1:54 pm

    That’s just mean. And from a local paper with less circulation than the Seattle Weakly, too.

    PECOTA sucks at evaluating some players. It’s always hated Ichiro (every year it basically says it’s time for him to fall off of a cliff and start sucking ass now), and I suspect it always will.

    That being said, we shouldn’t be throwing babies out with bathwater.

    The problem with PECOTA is that sometimes statheads treat it too much like gospel rather than a predictive tool. When you treat it for what it is, an educated guess of what a player’s performance could be that you should balance with all the other info you know about said player, then it’s a killer tool, especially in roto league baseball. When you don’t, hoo boy.

    Case in point: I believed too much in Jeff Weaver’s PECOTA line and thought him a perfect fourth starter in my AL-only mega-sized league. It was like tying a helium balloon to my team ERA.

  19. msb on December 19th, 2006 1:57 pm

    ok, I suppose we could all be outraged Brewers fans instead … from their mailbag:

    “I’m furious that Cirillo was “let go” and signed with the Twins. Right now, this whole offseason seems like a big mess. I’m sick of the fan favorite being let go just about every year.”

  20. Evan on December 19th, 2006 2:02 pm

    June 27, 2004.

    That was the last time the M’s made a genuinely good trade. That’s 2.5 years ago.

  21. jamesllegade on December 19th, 2006 2:59 pm

    OK… so maybe he IS going to be our DH.

    Does anyone have any sort of empirical evidence about what going FT DH does to a hitters #’s? Up? (God forbid) Down? Same?

    Seems like they would go up for a middle infielder… but that is just a guess.

  22. et_blankenship on December 19th, 2006 3:27 pm

    #169 – And to think the M’s were this close to acquiring David Wright from the Mets before they agreed to that deal. Just think how different the team would be today if Wright were a Mariner. Not having to sign Beltre would have allowed Seattle to spend money on pitching . . . or a LF . . . or a 1B not named Sexson.

  23. et_blankenship on December 19th, 2006 3:28 pm

    Oops. The above post is in reference to #170.

  24. CouchGM on December 19th, 2006 3:51 pm

    So, assuming Bavasi and the Mariners decide to try to save face and desperately sign (overpay)Zito, what will they do? Like trade Sexson for prospects and pitching, right? So who’d play 1st? Platoon with Raul/Broussard/Bloomquist? I liked the Sexson for Hudson/?? trade to get (help my brain quit operating….) the 1st baseman. So now who?
    Just pretend….

  25. Mr. Egaas on December 19th, 2006 3:55 pm

    Well, on the bright side, the M’s probably have a number 2 hitter now. Not that they didn’t before in Doyle, but now they’re prone to use him there.

    Good contact guy, okay OPS, Vidro for 2 hole.

  26. et_blankenship on December 19th, 2006 4:02 pm

    There isn’t a chance in Hades that Zito signs with the Mariners. The Mets have more money, a more competitive ball club, and great direction. If I were a FA, the Mets would be at or very near the top of my list.

  27. Mr. Egaas on December 19th, 2006 4:04 pm

    Only reason Zito hasn’t signed with the Mets yet is that Boras is trying to screw them out of as much money as humanly possible. I don’t see him going anywhere else.

  28. bakomariner on December 19th, 2006 4:48 pm

    the only way zito comes to seattle is if we give him 120 for 10…which would make it almost impossible to resign ichiro next year…the free agent market sucked this year, and will next year, so we just have to hope that our veterans stay the course, the kids improve, and the boys on the farm take the next step…it’s not gonna happen this year…but we’re better than last year, and have some kids that will blossom soon…

  29. msb on December 19th, 2006 6:33 pm

    #169 – And to think the M’s were this close to acquiring David Wright from the Mets before they agreed to that deal.

    gosh, I’d like to know what that trade was.

    end of 2001 Cirillo traded to M’s at Lou’s request

    end of 2002 Lou asks to leave, the M’s negotiate with the Mets who refuse to include Wright as compensation

    Cirillo almost traded to Mets for Cedeno, declines to lift no-trade.

  30. Tak on December 19th, 2006 6:35 pm

    but again, if they do not make any decent moves soon and/or get some results, Ichiro would be very willing to move out of Seattle. I am sure there are tons of teams who would love to add a player like Ichiro on and off the field, and the Ms will not be able to outbid every single one of them.

  31. et_blankenship on December 19th, 2006 6:44 pm

    #179 – The Freddy Garcia/David Wright near-trade is mentioned briefly here, about half way down under June 27, 2004:

    Unfortunately, the link to the story is dead, although you might be able to search NY Post’s archives to find it. In a nutshell, the Mariners weren’t willing to meet the Mets demands, which weren’t actually that extreme; not then and especially not in hindsight.

  32. CouchGM on December 19th, 2006 7:52 pm

    Unless I see some evidence of sound decision making, I’m guessing we need to wait for blind, dumb luck.


    ‘Blind’ and ‘dumb’ we got….

  33. CouchGM on December 19th, 2006 8:14 pm

    Also…Who’s “Doyle”? Save me the research…

  34. DMZ on December 19th, 2006 8:21 pm

    What, are your fingers broken? Do your research.

  35. frenchonion on December 20th, 2006 9:41 am


    Welcome to USSM.

  36. Evan on December 20th, 2006 10:34 am

    And now with the Jays reportedly shopping Rios (which is dumb – they need Rios), he would have been a better target for trade than Vidro. Doyle and Fruto for Rios would have been a far better deal than Vidro’s trade.

    Gods this is frustrating.

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