Denial of Ichiro comments
DMZ · January 12, 2007 at 3:58 pm · Filed Under Mariners
We’ve heard from Ichiro’s agent. They entirely deny that the comments were “as reported” in Sankei Sports, also noting that making those remarks in front of reporters would have caused them to appear in many places.
‘No, no you misunderstood me – I didn’t say Hargrove was incompetent, I said he was an idiot.’
For the record, regardless of this “denial”, that’s two offseasons in a row that Ichiro has complained about the team’s direction. Not that I blame him, but let’s not fool ourselves about the chances to keep this guy…
Did we ever get someone who actually speaks Japanese to translate what he said?
Ya know…people do read this site. I just wonder if it is Bavasi or Ichiro’s agent who reacted this quickly to try to squash this story.
Unfortunately, no local media guy would even know how to investigate how true this story was / is…let alone have desire to accurately describe how awful the M’s FO currently is. Instead the local writers will use this as another reason to take another swipe at Ichiro, since Ichiro does not make many, if any, interviews with them.
um, Cheetah, do you not recall the lengths the local writers went to last year to do a full translation of the Japanese articles in question?
oh, and Taro did a translation of this year’s supposed Ichiro quotes in the earlier thread.
Folks around here are…somewhat over-reacting. If the team competes into the last week of the season, I’m not sure Ichiro’s sense of honor would allow him to leave–that would be abandoning the ship of an improving team. On the other hand, if the team is .500, but out of it…there’s a good chance (but not absolutely certain) he’ll walk.
And the thing is…if the team wins, Bavasi and Hargrove stay. If the team loses, Bavasi and hargrove are out, but Ichiro goes. And if the team is mediocre, and Ichiro walks….so do Bavasi and Hargrove.
Not only are Bavasi and Hargrove a package, but it looks like Ichiro is a part of that as well…
As in he called you, Derek Zumsteg, or there’s a press release or something out there on the internets?
Surprisingly, King 5 News just reported something to the effect of:
Ichiro wants out of Seattle after 2007 as he’d like to play for a contender.
Even if it’s not true, it’s a nice shot of the pathetic job the FO has done the past few seasons.
Oope … ‘nice shot at…’
Hahaha … Uh … I think I’ll quit posting for the night, since I’m obviously unable to do so without some misspellings.
As in “he emailed” or “we’ve exchanged emails”
ah, Paul Silvi and his crack research team at work … remember when he kept reporting that Sori had a fractured skull after everyone else was reporting concussion?
Cheers for the confirmation. That’s about how I read it. Good to hear we’re on the same page.
msb…with my apologies to DMZ and USS Mariner folks, and especially Taro, they are not local media as I or most people would define local media. Further, you are not trying to tell us that the “local media – Steve Kelley and his look-a-likes” actually tried to DEFEND Ichiro in those translations last year, do you? The local and national media has taken multiple shots at Ichiro through out the years, and yet no one local guy has even questioned if Bavasi / Hargrove DESERVES to have a job…let alone asking for them to be fired. NY / Philadelphia / Chicago and many others would have been writing daily about the poor job the M’s FO has done – and there is no way Joel Sherman would have allowed to let Hargrove finish the season last year. Joel would have made it his own personnel quest to whip up enough protest amongst the fans / readers to force the M’s FO to do something. Sadly, Seattle does not have any local media who would even think about this, let alone do it.
This is a big reason the Sonics will be in Oklahoma shortly.
after the original Morosi article in the PI (based on the Keizo Konishi interview with Ichiro for Kyodo News) the Times did an investigation into the story, including clearer translations & a piece by the Japanese reporter.
You can find links to those in the
USSM summary at the time.
Interestingly, none of the writers slammed Ichiro for his statements, whether actual or mis-translated. If you want some digs at the M’s, you can read Art Thiel’s column on the original article …
oh, and Joel Sherman? he works in a town with 5 dailies, 6 weeklies, 2 baseball teams and a 160-year history of baseball in the city.
“And the thing is…if the team wins, Bavasi and Hargrove stay. If the team loses, Bavasi and hargrove are out, but Ichiro goes. And if the team is mediocre, and Ichiro walks….so do Bavasi and Hargrove.”
That’s pretty much the size of it, no? And it’s pretty much a lose-lose situation. Is there really any even remotely good reason that Bavasi stuck by Hargrove this offseason? It seems like even from a self-preservational standpoint (ignoring every rational, stat-based argument), firing Hargrove would have made more sense. Argggh. Vidro trade notwithstanding, I could have stomached another year of Bavasi. But Grover…. ugh. And it just seems like keeping Grover is expediting Ichiro’s exit, so WTF?
Yeah. And I don’t it’s a stretch; the only thing to argue about is how high the bar Ichiro will set–80 wins? 85 wins? 90 wins?
I’m in Tokyo and was watching a new year’s special with Ichiro. During a trip to Vegas with his buddy, a sports reporter, he discussed the Mariners. Paraphrasing liberally, he said something like “my first year, we had the record for the most wins ever, 116 wins. The last couple of years, we’ve been in last place. Any year you could be good or bad.” It was very matter-of-fact, and wasn’t really a negative or positive statement about the Mariners.
The show was pretty funny. Ichiro beat his friend at blackjack and roulette, and won a blind taste test of Yunker Sato energy drinks. In the final scene, Ichiro had one roulette spin to win some prizes from the show’s sponsors (luxury car, coat, rice cooker, etc.). Although Ichiro was gunning for the rice cooker, he came up empty (even though there was only a 1/22 chance of winning absolutely nothing). Ichiro and his friend really cracked up, and the whole thing was pretty funny.
The show was interspersed with a long interview on the pier at Marina del Rey in LA, where they discussed hitting and the pressure he feels every year to get two hundred hits. He discussed the move to center field and drew a map of the area he feels he should cover–it was almost the entire field, with a small space along the foul lines for the left and right fielders, and a small area near the infield for the second baseman and shortstop to cover.
Ichiro did an interview like this last year, all at his new house on the Eastside. He’s pretty funny in Japanese, and as you would expect, extremely well dressed. I wish they would re-broadcast it back home in Seattle (with subtitles), us hometown fans would eat it up.
–Jason
send KOMO a suggestion
ah, the Times had Brad Lefton check into it, and Larry Stone adds his 2 cents
Let’s not kid ourselves. The M’s are circling around faster and faster in the toilet bowl that is the AL West (great metaphor, huh?), and Ichiro knows it’s time to get out.
Unless the M’s have a ridicuously hot pre-AllStar break… we’re going to be left with the decision of trading Ichiro for a small fortune (albeit smaller than we’d get if we traded him now) or getting a draft pick when he’s gone.
Actions speak louder than words. Ichiro will let us know by not agreeing to a new contract. I don’t think he’ll go to the Yankees, though, because they have Damon and they are not going to deprive themselves of power at two outfield positions. Boston is a possible fit but how about the A’s? They’ll be moving into their new stadium in a couple of years so money won’t be as tight and they are in good position to pick up the many Japanese who now come to Seattle just to see Ichiro play. Once the A’s have more cash flow the Mariners will never catch them as long as Beane is around.
ARod was right! I have never understood why people in Seattle are so down on ARod. Unlike Randy Johnson, he played hard throughout his contract and it was his right to leave when it was up. So what will be people’s reaction when Ichiro leaves? He will be making much the same decision as ARod by concluding he’ll have a better chance of making it to the World Series with another team. I believe that both guys are good judges of what it takes to succeed. With the current Mariner administration, CEO down through manager, I don’t see that he has any other choice.
Ah, the Randy Johnson canard.
I should, quite seriously, write a series of standing Mythbusters-style articles we can just reference in circumstances like this.
I vote yes.
you can’t even compare A-Rod leaving with any other Mariner…he left for cash, but said he wanted to win…why did he go to the last place rangers? if Ichiro does leave, you can guarantee it will be to a winning team…
Can you get Kari Byron to look cute while holding them, DMZ?
(mind wanders)
Ah, the A-Rod canard.
I should, quite seriously, write a series of standing Mythbusters-style articles we can just reference in circumstances like this.
Who’s Kari Byron and how would I arrange that, would be my initial questions.
Kari Byron is the cute redhead on Mythbusters.
How you would arrange that, I have no idea, but if you figure it out let me know.
Ooooooooooooooh of course.
Yes, you should debunk the Randy Johnson canard. The numbers speak for themselves. 4.33 ERA before the trade, 1,.28 after. 1.29 WHIP before, 0.99 after. 19 HR in 160 IP before, 4 in 84 IP after. Not to mention that his visage said that he just didn’t care what happened before the trade.
You will have more difficulty with this challenge than those who endeavor to claim that the Mariners will contend in 2007.
Have you looked at his FIP/xFIP as well? I mean, not considering that he also went to facing pitchers every 9th “batter” instead of DHs.
I don’t remember anything uniquely non-caring (or different) about his visage then, but I suppose I could have just missed that. I probably wasn’t paying much attention to it at all.
after the Rj & Alex pieces, how about “.. and the Ms coulda had [fill in name] … ”
ie, trades that never were (or never were likely to be)
I love Ichiro. My favorite Mariner of all-time. Even more than Junior,
Butcha know, I almost wouldn’t mind if he went to a non-Yankee contenda. I’d really like to see him in a World Series, too, and he’s not getting any younger and there’s always a suitcase or a load of groceries waiting to throw you on the DL.
And I’ll tell ya – I really wish he’d move back to right field. It really pained me to see balls hit over his head while he was learning on the job – I want to see the greats be great, after all.
I agree–he’s my favorite player ever, but if the Mariners could get a young top-of-the line pitcher by trading Ichiro before the season started, they should do it. I want to see the M’s actually start winning, and I want to see Ichiro in a world series.
But given the Japanese ownership and economic realities, the Mariners won’t trade Ichiro. Almost every M’s game is broadcast live in Japan, just because Ichiro is on the team. That exposure disappears once Ichiro is gone.
Ummm…do we have anything more than anecdotal stuff here?
July 2007: The Mariners are in last place going nowhere fast. Hargrove is still the manager, Bavasi the GM. As the trade deadline nears, Bill Bavasi calls a press conference to announce that the Mariners have traded Ichiro to the Washington Nationals for … (gulp)
The White House?
I’d take Chris Snelling back (grin)
And I’ll tell ya – I really wish he’d move back to right field. It really pained me to see balls hit over his head while he was learning on the job – I want to see the greats be great, after all.
- – - “Ummm…do we have anything more than anecdotal stuff here?”
Excuse me. I wasn’t offering advice, I was talking in the first person, about me. Me Me Me Me Me. Izat okay? =I= enjoy watching him play right field. -I= didn’t enjoy watching those four or six times where he flat out looked bad going for balls over his head.
Perhaps you momentarily forgot that there are other ways to enjoy the game than to discuss it or analyze it, one of those being, to actually watch it.
Imagine that? Actually watching a game. Those of us who do watch the games know where you’re coming from. Hopefully he can improve next year.
Ahhh, the “people who don’t agree with me don’t watch games” argument. Nice.
guess we need an Ichiro chapter in the Canards…
Yeah, it’s not as though watching is a form of analysis or anything like that. It passes in one eye and out… well, out something. Must… Feel… Good… about enjoying the game by separating all thought processes.
- Ahhh, the “people who don’t agree with me don’t watch games†argument. Nice.
People: do me the courtesy of reading what I wrote. I’m not disagreeing with anybody, or I wasn’t until gwangung and dmz came along.
Post #36 – not so far away. Pretty unambiguous, too. Small words, easy sentences. Gets a 6.0 on the Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level.
Remember last month, when y’all had your top CD list going on? Purely subjective, wasn’t it? You weren’t rolling out the stats about how often KT Tunstall hit those thirds spot on, were you?
Post #36. Should be as uncontroversial as can I buy you a beer. And this is the intelligent Mariners’ fan site . . .
Not to be insulting, but it just looks like that isolated incidence are loomin’ quite large in your mind, and I was wondering if you had anything to back that up besides your observations (being that it was quite possible that these occurances stuck out to people ’cause it was Ichiro, or that they were looking for it, or….). A lot of people don’t like Ichiro’s at-bats, but the aggregate results sorta makes up for it…
I’m reading what you wrote. And I asked a simple question that asked if there was something to it.
Are you answering “No”?
Hey, gwangung – thanks for responding in a polite manner.
Here’s the thing – you are trying to get too much from my statement, which I’m not going to repost yet another time. I think in your mission to stamp out every last vestige of team personnel making decisions based on their observations and “feel” rather than factoring in even rudimentary analysis, you’re letting your mission spill over into regular conversation. This goes for the other guys, as well.
Sometimes a declarative statement says it all. I like Mirror Pond. Kari Bryon is certainly cute enough. I preferred watching Ichiro in right field than in center. And, really, the aggregate results don’t factor into this discussion, which is, after all, simply about my enjoyment of Ichiro.
Now, if you want to engage me in a discussion of whether “the aggregate results sorta makes up for it,” that’s a different discussion. But it’s not one I started.
Are we good?
Mack, for what it’s worth, if you are looking for a polite response from your comments, you might wish to refrain from writing something as amazingly condescending as “Perhaps you momentarily forgot that there are other ways to enjoy the game than to discuss it or analyze it, one of those being, to actually watch it.”
Additionally, any statement that begins “People: do me the (insert thing you want people to do)” is begging for a combative reply.
I’m puzzled by this Ichiro defense thing, mack. If you are watching him play and deciding that he’s not very good in centre, surely you -are- analysing it, which seems to directly contradict this statement:
“Perhaps you momentarily forgot that there are other ways to enjoy the game than to discuss it or analyze it, one of those being, to actually watch it.”
It’s interesting how people defend their (subjective, yes, I’m aware) opinions by implying that all the rest of us do is scurry through databases, putting stats together like so many little bits of Lego, and it’s a little insulting to hear that when most everyone on this board takes fandom to giddy new heights.
I’m also mildly bemused by the thought that having a ’subjective’ opinion makes said position immune to criticism. If I said “Shakespeare was a talentless hack who could be outwritten by a 4 year old with no arms,” I’m not sure what reaction I’d get from the English students, but I’m faily certain it wouldn’t be, “What a fine subjective opinion you possess, my friend! Come, let us drink some excellent ale at yonder bar!”
Granted, your post is slightly better as it alludes to -reasons- why you dislike Ichiro in centre, but then again I could say that the Bard had terrible grammar and that wouldn’t make me any more correct.
The funny thing is, I’m solidly in the scouty side of evaluating defense. But gut feel isn’t scouting, I’m afraid.
the irony….I doubt anyone here would defend Ichiro in center based only upon defensive metrics….the sample size is just way too small for him in center….
Most of the “yah, Ichiro is in center!” is actually based more on “baseball wisdom” which I guess in a guttural sense could be in the same ballpark as intuition (though I’d say intuition based upon a sound reasoning)….
Go to your room until you learn how to share….
There is no need to apologize. Anyone with a set of eyeballs knows that Ichiro is better in right field. It was pretty easy for him to look good there, since there is less ground to cover than in Center or Left field in Safeco. I think he will be better in Center than he looked last year, but it may be tough for him to extend his streak of Gold Glove awards, unless it’s given to him purely on reputation, which is always possible.
and I want to see that tv clip Jason was describing a few days back, where Ichiro drew his diagram of the area he should cover as a centerfielder….
Yeah. My fault. What was I thinking, coming along. I’ll stop doing that.
Here’s the thing – if people are reading your abrasive, ill-supported arguments and finding them abrasive and ill-supported, perhaps it’s worth considering that regardless of what you think you wrote, the thing to do isn’t to remind them to go back and re-read your abrasive, ill-supported arguments, and instead consider that however brilliant you believe you them to be, they’re pissing people off for some reason that might be worth discovering, so you can stop coming off as making abrasive and ill-supported arguments.
Unless you don’t care about that, which it’s pretty clear you don’t, so I’m not sure what exactly is your point except “Ichiro sucks in center and people who disagree with me are dumb”.
So clearly, what I need to do is go read your abrasive and ill-supported arguments again.
If Ichiro is an “A” centerfielder and a “A+” right fielder I’d still prefer to see him in center, as it’s “easier” to find a corner outfielder who can rake than it is to find a great hitting center fielder. It’s a better (potential) utilization of resources, regardless of what it does to Ichiro’s individual value.
The “last place rangers”? How were they in last place?
Sure, they finished fourth in 2000, but in 1999 they won the division (Seattle finished third). In 1998 they won the division (Seattle finished third). It was hardly a given that Texas would finish poorly (especially since they just added the greatest free agent in the history of sports), plus Seattle was fielding a team that projected to have a really lousy offense (Seattle’s best hitter in 2001 was a guy who’d never been a competent hitter before).
I’ll assume you are referring to Boone and not Edgar… even so, it’s not entirely true either. Boone was a fine hitter in 1994, was terrible in ‘96 and ‘97, OK in ‘98, and flirted with competence in two season prior to 2001.
If I remember correctly, the 2001 offense was projected to be solid, but unspectacular. Remember, Olerud and Edgar were on-base machines who had reasonable power. Plus, the Mariners had just added Ichiro, and the rest of the projected lineup had Javier/McLemore, and Cameron who could all reach base and run the bases well. That lineup looked much more promising than the ones we have entered the last three seasons with.
It would make sense to trade Ichiro at the deadline if your GM wasn’t Bavasi. When someone has proved, as Bavasi has, that he will happily accept garbage in exchange for value, why would anyone ever offer him anything close to a balanced deal?
#51 Ichiro in “centre”…
Quick! Call Homeland Security, a Canadian is loose, simulating sabremetric talk.
I’m Canadian? Oookay then.
w/r/t A-rod: I am, quite seriously, writing those canard posts.
- Here’s the thing – if people are reading your abrasive, ill-supported arguments
First, I do want to thank those of you who read my comments.
Now. Actually, the abrasive comments came after the comments that did not require support.
Let’s recap here:
I made the statement, “And I’ll tell ya – I really wish he’d move back to right field. It really pained me to see balls hit over his head while he was learning on the job.” This is a type of statement that does not require “support.” What, you want me to measure the pain?
So, gwangung took the time to respond, essentially, “prove it.”
msb took the time to mutter about canards.
Then, as Mat pointed out, I made that “amazingly condescending” – and it was – statement about watching games. Thanks for the helpful behavioral tips, by the way.
Next, I got Graham saying, “If you are watching him play and deciding” – did you read what I said? I’m not deciding anything. Then there’s, “If I said “Shakespeare was a talentless hack who could” – well, what I essentially said is, “I don’t like King Lear.” I didn’t say, “Pericles is better than King Lear.”
And dmz: “So clearly, what I need to do is go read your abrasive and ill-supported arguments again.”
No. This is an abrasive argument. You guys are so eager to jump into the swimming pool that you look at every elevated object as a diving board – and you’re rude about it, too.
Not once did any of you “questioners” actually ask me if I was evaluating Ichiro’s performance. Instead, you responded as if I had made a factually false statement and you were going to prove me right.
I don’t mind playing the role of the scold, and I sure as there are three bases don’t mind mixing it up.
But, lemme ask you something – is this how you talk to each other in person? Really? A guy says, “I don’t like watching Ichiro struggle in center,” and you say, “prove it?” What sort of response are you expecting in return?
Oh, here’s some abrasion, dmz: do you not have a thesaurus, or have you simply fallen in love the phrase “abrasive and ill-supported?”
At the end of the day, I do thank you for taking the time to engage me. But some of you don’t seem to have put your best foot forward while doing so.
Frankly, I don’t at this point care at all if you think I’m putting my best foot forward.
You’re not picking up on cues that you’re coming across as a dick. You’re looking at angry responses to you being rude as being rude to you.
Now, are you intentionally trolling? Do you just not get that you’re making people angry? Why not? Why should we care? At what point should we decide that we’re not getting through to you and it’s not worth it?
And why didn’t we come to that conclusion much earlier?
I don’t know. And I don’t care. If everyone you meet gets agitated and angry at you, shouldn’t you at some point realize that you’re the common thread?
You have determined you don’t like the way Ichiro plays centrefield. Ergo, there was a descision involved.
And no, what you said is ‘I don’t like King Lear because there aren’t enough Martians involved’. There is a distinct difference.
King Lear, in fairness, could well be much improved by additional Martians.
Hey, I didn’t start it, but I don’t mind finishing it. And, like I say – if we were in a bar, you boys would have behaved differently.
But, I have to say, I still don’t think that saying, “I like watching Ichiro in right field more than in left” is a comment deserving of the response. And, so far as “making people angry . . .” it would seem that you have an awful sensitive trigger.
And because Graham was kind enough to respond directly to my post, I’d just like to say: I have not “determined (I) don’t like the way Ichiro plays centerfield, I – and I’ve repeated this several times – simply don’t like watching him struggle in center field. That’s all.
Sometimes a cigar really is, just a cigar.
What is the difference between not liking the way he plays centre and not liking watching him struggle to play centre (which he doesn’t anyway)?
I think the real point (to me) is the fact that the team can be better overall with Ichiro playing in CF, rather than with him playing in RF. Ichiro’s statistics are akin to those of a CF rather than a RF. And, as someone else previously stated, it’s much easier to get a masher for RF and move Ichiro to CF (rather than keep Ichiro in RF and hope to get a Jim Edmonds in his prime type in CF).
Do I think that having him play in CF plays to his defensive strengths? Not necessarily. He’s getting older and his foot speed is starting to decline (albeit slightly) and I think his arm could help us more in RF as this seems to the be place where a lot of OF’s rack up their OF assists and can help keep runners at bay. That said, I don’t think that having Ichiro in CF is a disaster. Overall, I think it’s a plus.
Now, if we come to find that Ichiro hits .280 this year because of the move to CF (as a result of the additional wear and tear that CF requires), I may be singing a different tune.
Well, I think the real question is, what’s an appropriate response to either statement. “Why not?” is pretty good, don’t you think? “What do you mean?” isn’t bad, either. “How would you evaluate him as a center fielder?” is another.
The purpose of my statement was simply to express, in a public forum, that this fan has really enjoyed watching him play, wouldn’t boo if he came back here in a different uniform, and enjoys watching him play right field more than left.
And I do appreciate your further engagement.
- Frankly, I don’t at this point care at all if you think I’m putting my best foot forward.
dmz, maybe it isn’t that you should care what I think, but that you should write things that don’t embarrass you.
I did not trot out the “Ahhh, the ‘people who don’t agree with me don’t watch games’ argument. Nice.” I didn’t say anything along the lines of “you’re coming across as a dick,” which, I’m sure you’ll admit, is a dicky thing to say.
I was told that this was “the Intelligent Mariners’ Fan Site,” and while I don’t doubt that it true, I am surprised by the tone of people like you, who I would think would be welcoming new posters who, at the very least, would be an audience for your own postings.
- – - – - – - – - – -
I agree with AQ’s timely post above. But I had a different purpose in posting, something different that I wanted published, and, like I say, surprised at the completely inappropriate response to it that some of you have voiced.
Well, you’ve answered my questions now. Thanks.
1. mack wants Ichiro to play right field again because he was “pained to see balls hit over his head when he was learning the job.â€
2. I could be wrong, but I’m guessing that mack also likes to watch the Mariners win. (Because God knows he is watching the games.)
3. Overwhelming evidence suggests that the Mariners can increase their chances of winning games by playing Ichiro in center.
So, it’s obvious that winning isn’t everything when it comes to mack enjoying his M’s baseball. I don’t see a problem with that.
Me? I love to watch Ichiro play defense. Ichiro in center field = increased chances for him to play defense = increased happiness for me. I think it’s highly unlikely that Ichiro turns out to be a below average centerfielder.
We’re talking about defensive metrics….right
a haiku:
Size matters to me
I must troll to compensate
Ichiro! in right.
Great advice…. really, it is….. really
cross making up for the earlier missed opportunity off the list..
and sometimes a troll really is, just a troll.
well of course, that’s the whole idea of trolling isn’t it?
I just heard from mack’s agent…he entirely denies that his comments were as reported in post 36.
I literally can’t think of anything to say better than the weird discourse that has already occurred here.
I guess I will say that I enjoyed watching Ichiro throw guys out at home from right field. Not as easy from center.
But really, does it matter that much? I’m feeling a lot of angst on here today and I just want to say, on MLK day, in homage to Rodney King “can’t we all just get along?”
Well, mack, in all honesty I’d have asked the evaluation question if you hadn’t (perhaps inadvertantly) discouraged the analysis option, as it were. I love looking at defense, whether it be from the metric side or the ‘just watch them play’ side, and would be more than happy to engage in a discussion with regards to Ichrio in centre field.
However, the message that you put across did not foster such a dialogue.
It’s just bizarre that someone would bring up Rodney King and MLK in the same sentence.
Really no more bizarre than the “who’s the troll?” and “who’s being dicky?” debate that currently dominates this discussion.
No, that debate is childish, not bizarre. The “troll” stuff is just an easy fallback when someone doesn’t want to or can’t debate the subject that is being discussed. Unfortunately, that’s always going to happen in a debate about Ichiro, because some people can’t have a discussion about Ichiro without being overcome with emotion.
Man, I loves me a good trainwreck.
/* sits back, opens beer, waits, thinks kind thoughts about moderators
Actually both of those issues were already decided…
Truth be told, the Ms are dead to me….i’m in a snarky mood mostly because BP hasn’t updated their Peota projections yet… I’m sure it’s Hargrove’s fault…
BTW, can managers be traded?
Sure. We did it with Lou.
BTW, can managers be traded?
If Bavasi traded Snelling and Fruto for Vidro, what are the odds he’d be able to make a deal for Hargrove that would net the Mariners anything more than a bag of BP balls and a few old ticket stubs?
Yes, but that wasn’t really a trade in the way players are dealt (though in a practical sense its probably just arguing semantics). Didn’t the Rays basically compensate the Ms for releasing Lou from his contract? I know the Rays probably worked out contractual details with Tampa beforehand but couldn’t he have theorectically told the Rays to stick it and then go somewhere else?
#84: I’d settle for a bobblehead of Earl Weaver in return…
Hargrove for a bag of BP balls and old ticket stubs?
Who wouldn’t take that deal? Really.
Who wouldn’t take that deal? Really.
Bavasi?
Are comments about trading Hargrove for ticket stubs or bobbleheads childish or bizarre?
Not really but…
this would trully be bizarre….
Are comments about trading Hargrove for ticket stubs or bobbleheads childish or bizarre?
Bizarre, perhaps. It’s not exactly a commonplace situation overall. Childish? If you can pick up a scrapheap manager from somewhere and improve your team while getting something, albeit minor, in return for your current manager, I think that’s a good decision. I don’t see how it’s childish to point that out.
I’d have to go look at the details of the transaction, but I believe that because of some of the weirdness around his contract, the Devil Rays didn’t so much acquire a Lou Piniella contract as they acquired the rights to negotiate with him, which the M’s held, and the deal was contingent on their ability to reach an agreement… which they did.
Now, the part I really don’t remember is what rights the M’s held at the time of the trade to Piniella’s contract, and whether that was contractual in the deal they signed, or something else.
Yeah, Piniella had a year left on his M’s contract at the time. They traded a manager. (PI)
Are comments about trading Hargrove for ticket stubs or bobbleheads childish or bizarre?
I prefer inane, thank you.
Wow, you guys sure were wound up tighter than an old-timey watch mainspring yesterday. I just got back from a week’s vacation, and I felt my neck and shoulder muscles tightening back up just reading this thread…
I’d suggest a vacation for each and everyone of you, hopefully to occupy your time between now and a month from now, when P/C report.
Then we’ll have a whole raft of new things to complain about, presumably.