Mid-week newsathon
From the Everett Herald:
“Reliever Mark Lowe says his surgically repaired elbow is responding to surgery”
:Starter Felix Hernandez is in ‘amazing shape’ after an offseason of working out”
Yeah, if you put enough dip on a chip, it’s really a struggle to get it to your mouth… wait, what?
“You should see Felix,” relief pitcher J.J. Putz said Tuesday during the Mariners Caravan stop in Granite Falls. “He’s in amazing shape. I think he’s down to 175 pounds.”
That part is an exaggeration; Hernandez was listed in last year’s media guide as being 6-foot-3 and 230 pounds.
It was clear to Mariners personnel when Hernandez arrived from his home in Venezuela on Monday that he has taken this offseason seriously.
“He’s in great shape,” trainer Rick Griffin said. “He’ll walk into the room tomorrow and you’ll see.”
That’s potentially huge, season-changing news. Possibly franchise-changing. If Felix is going to take conditioning seriously, it’s going to help him stay healthy, first, but I’d also like to hope that he’s going to put that kind of energy into preparation through the season. One of the biggest fears has been that as an immensely talented kid, it’d be easy for him to check out and still put up decent lines – and to be distracted by off-field temptations until it cost him. If he’s entirely ready to sacrifice a good portion of his time off to keep in shape, that’s a great sign. The M’s can’t compete without a healthy, effective Hernandez.
hey! I was just whining about a news thread for today, and voila!
Larry Stone asks:
Why does it make news when an athlete does what he is SUPPOSED to do?(Staying in shape and actually getting ready for the season they get payed for)
Yeah, and 10 years ago they proved that they could compete with one friggin’ good ace and not much else in the rotation, they could make it to the playoffs. Of course, they had one of the all-time-greatest offenses, but whatever.
um, because it’s Felix?
and sadly, some guys don’t figure that out until they hit 30.
FWIW, from the puff news department, JJ is one of the PI Sports Stars nominees tonight.
A 20-year-old guy doing what authority figures tell him to do, especially when it involves hard work and self-discipline is always news (unless they’re in the armed forces). And hey, it’s the January doldrums. Just about anything is news.
If staying in shape is what a guy is being paid to do, why do Bartolo Colon, Tony Gwynn, etc etc keep getting re-signed to big contracts?
and apparently Tony did stay in shape after a fashion, if you see how large he is these days.
Of course I meant to say “guys like” Tony Gwynn, since he obviously isn’t getting re-signed anymore. But with all the fat, out-of-shape guys playing MLB I’m happy to see young Felix working hard.
If Felix loses enough weight, does that mean a spot opens up on the 25 man roster? If he’s really looking that svelt, we could fit like a David Eckstein on there.
Svelte!
The news about Felix has dramatically brightened an already great day for me.
Yahoooooooooo!!!
Let’s just wait until April when it counts to see if King Felix is the real deal, k?
Not to be a party pooper, but what will really help change the franchsie is if Hargrove, Bavasi and many more idiots from this front office get fired.
“every party needs a pooper, that’s why we invited you … “
ha ha ha, very funny. . .
I haven’t tracked it down again but some blog, maybe Baseball Think Factory or Hardball Times, did an article that indicated that fat pitchers have longer careers than appropriately weighted ones.
I’d like to see somebody do an analysis of that before I figure out whether to be happy or worried about the streamlined version of King Felix.
#14– well, as I now (as always when I hear the phrase ‘party pooper’) have that damn song in my head, I am hoist by my own petard, as it were.
Klapisch extols the NL West, and declares the AL West the Cold plate special, including “The Mariners gave it their best shot for Zito, failed, and will now count on Horacio Ramirez and Miguel Batista.”
[see comment guidelines]
Sorry, thought that would be short enough. Here is a link to SI.com’s list of prospects 1-15. You can access Jones at #25, Clement at #72, and Bulter and Morrow under “honorable mentions”:
http://tinyurl.com/2oswo2
#15 – I’d be interested in seeing that study. I think the hope here is that he’s getting himself in shape, which is only somewhat related to losing weight. Players can be relatively heavy but in great condition. For years Roger Clemens has been almost exactly on the border line between what is officially considered “overweight” and “obeseity”, and he works out like a mad-man.
If he’s training hard and eating relatively well, that’s a much more important thing that absolute pounds.
There is a link to a study about “fat vs trim” pitchers over on Lookout Landing. I haven’t had a chance to read it yet.
just up on the M’s official site, with a link to the video:
“Longtime designated hitter Edgar Martinez will be entering the Mariners Hall of Fame, it was announced at the team’s Pre-Spring Media Luncheon on Wednesday. Martinez, who had a career .312 average and 309 homers, played all of his 18 seasons with Seattle.”
Sorry I don’t feel like hunting down the exact article for you, but it was up on the hardbal times and it was one piece of the series called, “Does Size Matter?”
Here’s the conclusion to a six-part series by David Gassko on the correlation between size and performance (the first five parts are linked at the bottom of the article). In short, heavier pitchers have historically been better and more durable than their thinner peers, but this doesn’t really say anything about pitchers who started big and worked to slim down. You’ll have an awful hard time convincing me that fat Felix is a better bet than in-shape Felix.
Can the M’s hire Nolan Ryan for Spring Training only to be Felix’s personal coach?
lordylordylordy. The Media day video opens with Chuck Armstrong telling Kentucky jokes on himself. He does finally get to the announcement that Edgar will be inducted in June, at the same time finally put the North West Baseball Museum and Mariner Hall of Fame into “that space along 1st Avenue”
I’m confused here.
Didn’t we all decide, from Dave’s game-scoring and analysis early last season, that Felix’s struggles were almost entirely caused the Mariners’ insistence that he “establish his fastball” early in the count at the expense of his godlike change — and that as a result, he served up many unnecessary straight-as-an-arrow meatballs to hitters?
I know the Mariners blame Felix for not breaking out like Gooden — but have we bought into that reasoning as well? I believe in a well-conditioned athlete, but it seems like a stretch to say that conditioning was a serious problem that affected his performance last year.
Or is it?
I’m confused.
The “establishing his fastball” problem was after he started actually pitching, which was delayed because of weight-related issues (shin splints etc) in Spring Training. They’re two separate problems, and even if the M’s had Felix pitch the way Dave suggests they’d still have to worry about whether he was in shape to throw anything (let alone a full game) at the start of the season.
Rick Griffin (noting how odd it is not to see Finny out front) reported on injury updates — the list is longer than last year, where he had one person to talk about.
Baek had some arm fatigue after 190 innings, so they shut him down, and he is fine after his offseason.
Sean Green’s pulled lat is fine, and he had a successful rehab outing in PR
Mark Lowe (who “had a problem of a bony nature”) is in Seattle doing strength/conditioning, with maybe to start some throwing in Feb., but going to go slow & cautious to make sure the healing takes place.
Jeremy Reed is strong, healthy and just fine
Jose Guillen’s elbow will be about 7 months at spring training, and if he is on the Buhner TJ healing timeline, he should be good to go.
Jose Lopez sprained his ankle about 2 weeks back in Winter Ball; he’s going to come into Seattle next week to see Rick, and then go to ST with the team.
Reitsma’s ulnar nerve surgery was just fine, don’t anticipate any problems
Jose Vidro came in & spent the day with the training staff, was given specific things to work on for his knees & leg problems before ST (they have had success working with balky legs, so who knows?) Jose has plans to talk to Edgar quite a lot, and Edgar is on board with that.
Washburn’s calf is fine, he was fine about 10 days after the season ended.
Mateo’s hand is fine, and he pitched in winter ball– he is also coming into Seattle before ST
Felix was told to go home and just sit for two weeks, and then begin the ‘thorough & good work-out program’ he was given, that dealt with his workout habits and his eating habits, following many sit-down sessions with Rick & Rocket. He weighed 226 yesterday, down 20 lbs from reporting last year. And Rick is still pissy about the Times’ article.
and because some reporters had asked, he can report that Sori is completely recovered from his head injury. sigh.
See: Griffey, Junior.
#28: Mateo’s hand is fine,
What a way to wreck a perfectly good thread.
well, it was his non-throwing hand, so we were SOL any way.
and Felix does look good (he is never going to have a sculpted face), and he did a great job hearing & answering everything in English, only checking with the interpreter a couple of times.
I don’t think of Griffey, though Griffey’s unwillingness to listen to trainers/etc certainly contributed to his eventual leg problems.
I was thinking more of – well, Freddy Garcia’s the most obvious example for the Mariners, but there are a host of other examples.
Isn’t it more likely that “fat” pitchers do better in the Majors because there is a bias against “fat” pitchers when they are younger/getting drafted? Therefore, only the cream of the crop “fat” picthers ever actually make it to the Majors.
And the St. Louis Post-Dispatch says:
Right idea, wrong Weaver.
#33
Yes, that was one of the conclusions of that series. A selection bias exists against fat pitchers through the draft, promotions, etc., so that the fat pitchers who make it have had to prove themselves, where someone with an athletic build might not have to as much. Also, fat pitchers who suck are less likely to get the benefit of the doubt for as long as an athletic pitcher, so poor performances by fat pitchers are tolerated for less time.
prob. similar findings could be had for the short pitcher, as well.
Lookout landing has some rather startling photos documenting Felix’s results of this winter’s work.
Hm. And I have to say that it looks like he really WORKED.
Speaking of Felix, I’ve been doodling around with his career splits and saw something pretty striking.
His opponents have an OPS of .577 against him with the bases empty but their OPS increases to .830 when runners are on base. Can’t the man pitch from the stretch? More importantly though, does looking at OPS have much value when evaluating a pitcher (i.e. indicative or simple curiosity)?
For a site and readership that prides itself on dealing with hard data, to make the assumption that the way Felix looks, or that he’s dropped some pounds will translate into better performance without data to really back that up seems, well, odd. Would it also be the assumption that Bartolo Colon or Clemens would be better pitchers if they slimmed down? Do we actually have any evidence that that is the case, or is this just a continuation of a general societal bias about weight and/or the assumption that weight and/or appearance is a reliable indicator of things like health, stamina, muscle strength, etc.? (Based on what I just read above about the ‘bias’ in the Hardball Times study, it would seem to be an example of the kind of bias we wouldn’t WANT to engage in – that which is by visual determination of body type as opposed to performance…is this the next market inefficiency Billy Beane will exploit? I know, I’ll sign a bunch of fat pitchers cuz everybody else is undervaluing them….kinda like the Jeremy Brown thing in catcher….)
#39: oh come now…..the rocket has a legendary workout regimen…. Colon on the other hand….well he’s hurt alot isnt he? And that’s the point I think…. that Felix has been very serious about training is the underlying factor for why some believe Felix may be less likely to get injured and the Ms are therefore more likely to win the world series…..
#38. Haven’t some great pitchers simply eschewed working from the stretch?
KOMO’s Hot Stove show is on, from the PI sports banquest– Mark Loretta the Hutch award winner is to be on, as well as Mark Lowe, and John Olerud. Dave & Dave are on now, and apparently Rizzs still has his beard…
Bavasi said that when he saw Felix for the first time today, he was walking away in the clubhouse and Bill thought at first it was Carlos Garcia…
He still thinks they need pitching depth, and that if they were to go get someone else, it would likely be more of a 200+ IP, .500 kind of pitcher, just to carry the 5th spot.
Someone needs to stop Bavasi now…Per friend who works with M’s, Bavasi is about / has offered Weaver a 2 yr with third year option for $50 mil. if third year kicks in…NOOOOO!!!!!!
Sorry…buddy was just messing with me. He did not think I would mention it here.
nice to hear from Olerud, back home again– he has been enjoying the family time, coaching his son’s little league team (it’s still coach pitch, so he has to be careful not to have too good a game), helping out with some HS coaching at Bellevue Christian, and generally not leaving home much. He mentioned (when told he looked as though he could still suit up & play) that his foot still has never gotten all the way back after his surgery 2 years ago (IIRC they had to fuse some bones & hope some torn ligaments healed) and that he feels it if he over-exerts …
#44: Thank god that is sarcasm. lol
Hey all.
Pitching’s a horrible activity to engage in. It’s not a natural motion anyway, and to throw as hard as major league pitchers do puts incredible strain on their ligaments, joints, and muscles.
I don’t think that being in shape, working out, stretching, and all that can possibly be a bad thing.
If you gave me a choice and said “you can have a pitcher who does all those things and is twenty pounds overweight or a pitcher who doesn’t do any of those things and is thin and healthy-looking” I’d choose the first guy every time.
Does that make more sense? The issue I have isn’t weight, though I’d be concerned if he was heavy enough that you’d worry about his knees. It’s about being out of shape and not caring.
Thinking of self destructive phehom’s from the world of football I can come with Garrincha, George Best, Charlie George and Paul Gascoigne in fewer seconds than it takes time to type that.
And baseball phenoms who started pitching in the bigs at 18 years of age… oh yeah, Dwight Gooden.
Different abuses to be sure, but any sign of self-discipline from the boy king is great news.
Oops, I meant to write Charlie Nicholas, but Charlie George is another decent example.
Mind you, if he failed like Garrincha failed in all those world cups with Brazil, I’d take it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrincha
On the statement that this news might be season-changing:
Let’s assume Felix cuts down his ERA by one third to around 3. That would mean that instead of 96 earned runs in 191 innings he’d give up about 60-65 in ~200 innings. How much would that be worth in the standings? IIRC, a ten run improvement on either side of the ledger is worth about 1 win so that this scenario improves the team by 3-4 wins. That would be great contribution from one player but still, quite a few other things would need to go right to make it to the playoffs.
sigh. Sandmeyer just declared that last year was the Mariners fault because they kept Felix from pitching in the WBC, so he sat home eating. of course, he also seemed to be under the impression that the only difference between this year and last was that Felix actually began exercising. Does he still do the Mariner post-game shows? Nice to know he’s keeping the public well informed.
Thanks for reminding me how much I wanted Lilly. I think he would have been great in Safeco.
From the world of NFL footbal – Ryan Leaf. Self Destruction mentally, physically, emotionally. It was all about the signing bonus, and nothing after.
So I’m glad to see Felix with some discipline and appreciation for a work ethic.
I love revisionist history. Seth Everett is claiming that Griffey could see that the M’s weren’t going to win and so he asked to go closer to home. Of course, he also thinks that the Mariners are spinning it that Felix wasn’t out of shape last year. Hopefully Corey Brock, due on soon, can clear a few things up for him.
My question remains: Were Felix’s struggles in 2006 more about his conditioning or more about the Mariners trying to force an ill-suited pitching template upon him?
44/45
“My father’s doctor told you (that) you had a brain cloud…and you *believed* him??”
Right idea, wrong Weaver.
Apparently, the STL-Dispatch isn’t the only source that thinks the Mariners might be in on Jeff Weaver. From Ken Rosenthal:
Weaver’s far from ideal, but for the right price, I could see acquiring him making some sense.
#58 Nice “Joe Vs. The Volcano” reference.
I see we signed Arthur Rhodes to a minor league contract.
#56 Ah, revisionist history. Was he wearing rose colored glasses?
what? the return of Arthur Lee doesn’t merit a thread?
#60– rose-colored? no– he was pretty down on everthing mariner, past present & future.
#62 Ah, so the glasses had a brownish hue then.
I wonder which spot Arthur would take?
Hickey’s put this up on his blog:
“Mariners closing in on Weaver
Denied a chance to get right-handed starter Brian Lawrence on the cheap last week, the Mariners closing in on a deal that would bring Jeff Weaver to the club.
Sources say that the Cardinals are bowing out of the competition
Weaver, one of the heroes of the St. Louis Cardinals’ World Series championship in October, is represented by agent Scott Boras, so the asking price is bound to be high. although not nearly so high as the $8.325 million he made last year.
Weaver pitched himself out of the rotation in Anaheim last year (3-10 in 16 starts), but he went to the Cardinals, was 5-4 down the stretch, then went 3-2 in the post-season, including eight innings om Game 5 when St. Louis clinched the World Series. “
you know, Bavasi said yesterday that he was looking for a 200IP, .500 pitcher– if they can pay Weaver comensurate with that …
MSNBC — “The Mariners are also reportedly interested in left-hander Mark Redman, who was an All-Star with the Royals last season. Seattle, however, prefers Weaver.”
I love revisionist history. Seth Everett is claiming that Griffey could see that the M’s weren’t going to win and so he asked to go closer to home.
I’d be pretty peeved over that claim if I were Griffey. They only won a measily 393 games in the next four seasons after he left. So yeah, he could see that they weren’t going to win and… oh, wait.
rhodes has the invite to camp, but what about the invite to aaron small? he was lights out in 2005 (10-0) but terrible last year…does he have a shot at making the club? and would weaver/redman be better than baek?
but what about the invite to aaron small? he was lights out in 2005 (10-0) but terrible last year…
10-0, and he started 9 games. What does that tell you?
Do you think he’ll be bringing the NYY lineup to Seattle within him?
Aaron Small was not lights out in 2005. He was far from it. He was no different that he is now.