Spring training almost starting… almost… almost…
“I’m more excited going into this spring than I’ve ever been. In my heart, I believe we have a chance to [win the division].”
– Hargrove, quoted on MLB.com
or, even better
“We feel like we had a good season last year — notwithstanding the 11-game debacle,” Hargrove said. “We were able to establish a winning attitude here, an attitude where when we take the field every day, we expect to win that ballgame.
“A lot of people pay lip service to that, but there’s a difference between saying it and believing it. Our players, certainly by the end of the year, got to that point and got over that point.”
almost as good as
“Neo, sooner or later you’re going to realize just as I did that there’s a difference between knowing the path and walking the path. ”
– Morpheus
Larry LaRue in the News Tribune has health updates and the first “it’s an open competition” story.
“For me, the challenge in camp is to give every pitcher here a fair chance at making the team,†Chaves said Tuesday. “Later in camp, when the innings disappear, that’s tougher. Early on, I want to give everyone a fair shot.â€
Note that they’re already looking at a seven-man bullpen. Hooray for Hargrove.
Comments
67 Responses to “Spring training almost starting… almost… almost…”
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Is Rhodes really a lock? I assume that he must be somewhat decent before the M’s open up a spot on the 40-man for him. While he probably has an inside track, he could pitch himself out of a job if he continues to walk batters at last season’s staggering pace.
Larue says Putz, Reitsma and Mateo are “locks” and Rhodes, Sherrill and Woods are “in”. What is the difference between being a “lock” and being “in”, and why are Mateo and Rhodes in either category? Especially Rhodes?
I have no problem giving Rhodes an NRI but I can’t see why he’d be given a roster spot already.
Great minds think alike.
It means Mateo can post a 108.00 ERA through spring training and still be in “in” while an “in” player such as Woods posts a 108.00 ERA through Spring Training and he’s now “out.
Putz, Mateo, and Reitsma have guaranteed contracts. Sherrill, Rhodes, and Woods do not.
Plus Mateo lost 10 pounds. I will leave it to others to speculate about whether he changed his arthritis medication.
Mateo could lose ten pounds by skipping lunch.
Wasn’t it P. D. Ouspensky who claimed that 99% of everyone you meet is actually dead? He wrote a story about a man who had a chance to live his life over again with full consciousness of his previous life, and yet was unable to alter a single event or even phrase his second time through.
This may be Mike Hargrove. Imagine the anguish he feels as his mouth utters the same tired phrases about batting orders and winning attitudes while his spirit yearns to sing paeans to sabermetrics.
Actually, whenever I hear a quote from Hargrove, I begin to fear that I am dead. I wonder if certain phrases, intoned in proper sequence, can actually kill brain cells in both speaker and listener.
It is pretty bad that the most entertaining things about this team, to this point, have been that it is so terrible and dysfunctional….and now apparently delusional.
I like the first quote above…..what if Hargrove actually meant “In my heart, I believe we have a chance to [become the first team to lose 162 games in a season].” With this team, you never know.
With a bench like ours, shouldn’t we be happy that they’re leaning towards a larger bullpen?
Even if we did have another bench spot, Hargrove wouldn’t use the player, unless he were more gritty than Willie. Petagine? Lawton? Borchard? None of them had enough grit.
Wow, Mike Hargrove is almost as wise as Morpheus!
I am stoked. This must mean that the Mariners will 100+ games, make it into the playoffs, and win the World Series this season under Hargrove sagacious leadership.
Whose with me?!
Mike Hargrove knows kung-fu.
#8 – Hilarious.
Having a four man bench though, seems to make it harder to do any neat bench substitutions. I can’t think of specific situations, but I know that many times during the season I’ve thought : Wow , I wish we had a 5 man bench so we could do X.
Note that they’re already looking at a seven-man bullpen.
Starting at seven will make it easier to accept when they break camp with eight.
Now Hargrove’s “delusional” for being optimistic at the begininning of spring training? Tough crowd.
15. It wouldn’t matter if there were 2 players on the bench, since the fabulous grover doesn’t use them. They might as well run a promotion called “sit on the bench with the players night” and save a few bucks on their bench.
“We were able to establish a winning attitude here, an attitude where when we take the field every day, we expect to win that ballgame.”
WTF. Seriously. WTF.
That one’s almost as good as the “We needed a groundball, so I brought in Mateo…” quote.
And, about as right on as the note that my AD sent out talking about how he was encouraged by the morale around the office and how positive it was with all the changes he made, when, really, the morale around here has never been lower…
Another health update is that Jose Lopez is already in camp, but has a sprained ankle suffered in Venezuela. He’s supposed to be ready around the time games start, though. From Geoff Baker on the Times’ new Mariners blog, which will hopefully be better than the P-I’s offering.
Also, Seattlest uses this occasion to reprint (repost?) Ogden Nash’s ode to spring training
You need to read between the lines. I interpret it as Hargrove being excited about the prospect of being sent home a month into the season to collect his paycheck. He’ll probably have more of a positive influence on the team from his sofa as he would from the bench.
#15-DJ, my dead grandmother could have thought of some substituions that Grover missed. He’ll carry 12-13 pitchers, over use 4 like he did Lowe and let the rest rot. One day he’ll remember a name and we’ll see that guy for a week straight. No need for bench with this guy. Can you imagine him managing in the NL???
I wonder if poker playing in the dugout is a go this spring under the great Hargrove.
Oh, THIS is why we keep hearing all the optimism out of the Mariners. They thought last year was good!
I’m going to predict that the Mariners will have another “good” season, and that Vidro will turn out to be a “good” DH. Seeing the few people who show up to games sit on their hands until the hydro races start will make me feel “good,” and when I see someone yell “sit down!” at another fan for standing during an exciting part of a game, I’ll think to myself, “that person is a ‘good’ fan!”
Don’t get me started about how “good” the Mariner Moose makes me feel.
Yes!!! Lets remove all in-game entertainment. The team would be much better off alienating the casual fans to make sure the die hard fans enjoy the game a little better!! We could have a payroll like Tampa Bay!!
Let’s also eliminate anything that makes children enjoy going to the ballpark.
I think this is in the context of Hargrove’s saying earlier this off-season that all those young fellas took a while to realize that they could win games — he’d opined that there was a stretch where they would take a loss into the next game and it would snowball … massive paraphrasing here, of course.
I thought the more interesting part of the blog was posted later, when Baker talks about Guillen talking about steroids in the DR
Note that they’re already looking at a seven-man bullpen. Hooray for Hargrove.
This is no defense of Hargrove, but inasmuch as many teams use a
7-man bullpen, what’s the ruckus ?
This is no defense of Hargrove, but inasmuch as many teams use a 7-man bullpen, what’s the ruckus?
Just because many teams are doing it does not make it a smart idea. The seventh reliever hardly ever pitches (and when he does the game is usually out of reach) if your top six relievers are reasonably competent. By and large, it’s a waste of a roster spot.
“We feel like we had a good season last year — notwithstanding the 11-game debacle,†Hargrove said.
“Aside from that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?”
The last guy on your bench is also almost as worthless unless you have a horrible hitter or horrible player you need to sub out defensively. It really isn’t that big of a deal in my mind. Imagine the player we could have on our bench. Yeah I know, it isn’t very exciting and they probably won’t be any good. The fact that Rene Rivera will get ~100 AB will hurt the team far far more than the smaller bench. Is it that hard to find a replacement level backup catcher?
I reject your premise. We already have a “last guy on the bench”, and his name is Willie Bloomquist. I’m not sure why anyone would be comfortable with the bench the way it stands right now.
Jamie Burke was just signed right? Wouldn’t he be a better option than Rivera? Give Rivera time to go down and acutally develop…
Ryan Feierabend: “You know the front office is trying to get to the postseason . . . ”
Poor Ryan. So driven to fawning on the FO for a shot, he forgot which organization signs his checks.
The cod that I had for dinner tonight would be a better option for backup catcher than Rene Rivera.
Didn’t you see the article this morning that bragged about how the Ms front office jumped the payroll up to $111 million for ’07? The quote from that is ‘now the players just have to perform’.
See, I think they’ve gotten the message that the fans want them to spend more money on payroll. So now that’s their measure of ‘we’re trying, can’t y’all see that?’
But they somehow missed the message that we’d also like them to buy products of good quality with it instead of paying premium prices for Value Village items that you hope have a few more wears in them.
Faith-based baseball continues in Seattle.
I’d rather have a big bullpen than a big bench with our weak pitching staff. And if a position player gets injured, how hard is it to find some replacement level scrub to fill in for him? If we were pushing out a good player to make room for extra pitchers, it would different. Mariners smaller bench = less crappy players on team.
The problem with having the big bullpen is that the 12th man only pitches if you have a couple extra inning games or 2-3 games in a row where starters get blown out early so that the bullpen is gassed. But if you’re in that situation an extra pitcher is only a phone call away in Tacoma. You can see that situation coming a day ahead and make the move you need.
But the extra man on the bench could be needed on any given night. Not having him means you lose the opportunity to pinch run or pinch hit in a key situation.
Talk about damning this team with faint praise, from Hickey’s article this morning:
from the Dallas Morning News:
But the extra man on the bench could be needed on any given night. Not having him means you lose the opportunity to pinch run or pinch hit in a key situation.
I think the most important thing there is “in a key situation.” A decent bench player can have a variety of uses in close ballgames. The 12th guy on the staff is almost surely pitching the lowest leverage situations in the game. Usually it’s not so hard to find a “rubber-armed” 11th pitcher who can absorb the innings that would otherwise go to the 12th pitcher.
#41 – I don’t see the difference. How is carrying a one-trick-pony on the bench who you only need in rare situations any better than having an extra guy in the bullpen who is rarely used?
In addition, isn’t bringing in a LOOGY to get a big out just as important (in terms of win probability) as pinch running/hitting?
Other managers use their bench to take advantage of splits, deploy players in certain scenarios where they might excel, i.e. certain pitching match-ups, or where you really need a sac fly. Others use their bench to keep the regulars fresh, giving them a day off every 2-3 weeks. Hargrove uses his bench to keep his non regulars well rested and sitting.
How is carrying a one-trick-pony on the bench who you only need in rare situations any better than having an extra guy in the bullpen who is rarely used?
Usually that extra guy in the bullpen is bad at what he does and the extra guy on the bench can be good at something.
In addition, isn’t bringing in a LOOGY to get a big out just as important (in terms of win probability) as pinch running/hitting?
There’s plenty of room on a six-man staff for one LOOGY. If you had a weird staff that had a ROOGY or a couple of otherwise weird pitchers I could maybe see going with a seven-man staff, but when I look at the back end of the Mariners bullpen, I see some mostly interchangable guys–not anyone they should be bending over backwards to keep on the roster. Maybe if they’d tried looking harder they could’ve found a worthwhile pitching specialist the same way they could’ve found a worthwhile bench player if they’d looked harder, but pitching seems to be more universally sought out, so I’d tend to think it’s easier to find the useful bench player than a pitcher you really want pitching with the game on the line.
Having that last scrub on the benchh gives you the flexibility to use the other 4 guys on your bench, and he doesn’t really ever need to play.
A long reliever can be shuttled back and forth more easily, as said previously.
There were a number of games last year in which a move could not be made because of lack of the extra guy on the bench — where Hargrove couldn’t use Bloomquist as a pinch runner for Johjima, for example, because he just pinch hit for Betancourt or an outfielder (Jones late in the year) and needed Bloomquist to go in for defense. Or where he had to use Bloomquist as a pinch hitter because there was nobody else.
OK, maybe Hargrove isn’t creative enough to figure out how to use the extra bench guy. But that isn’t a good enough reason to completely waste the roster spot on a pitcher who isn’t needed at all — and whose presence actually makes the pitching staff worse because he feels obligated to get him in a game every once in a while.
I’d rather see the extra bench guy even if he was a 3rd catcher. Actually having a backup catcher who can hit and another who can field isn’t a bad way to go (and neither of them named Rivera). Of course having one decent backup catcher and another useful bench guy is preferable, but I’m just saying…
#47 – That all makes a lot of sense. I think what I was trying to say is that a seven man bullpen isn’t inherently bad. If you don’t have anyone in your system that can fill a meaningful role at the end of the bench, why not make the 25th guy a reliever? A couple bad starts in a row can deplete a bullpen pretty quickly, and do you really want to blow out someone’s arm in a 15 inning game? I’m just saying that there are viable reasons for carrying the extra guy as a pitcher. There are much better reasons to rip Hargrove than for his seven man bullpen.
SI has a nice piece on the former Marine who was given a minor league deal & NRi by the Pads.
Any update on when the cheater’s guide will be shipped?
Larry Dobrow with “No sweeter sound than ‘pitchers and catchers report”:
oops, sorry– Scott Miller.
Is that what a winning attitude is? I would have thought that a winning attitude was an attitude that somehow “won” or allowed it’s wielder to win. That sounds like an “unrealistic” or “deluded” attitude, since it apparently led to unrealized expectations more often than not.
So spring training boils down to seeing if Sean White or Jake Woods makes the roster? Wow. I’d better get my plane tickets to Phoenix…
ahh, good. Elaine Thompson is also on the job in Peoria.
Has anyone seen the Stone column? http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2003572621_marimoney15.html
This might be grounds for another thread, as I’m wondering if the numbers actually add up.
I remember posting once last year, regarding the bullpen use. Hargrove and the papers were saying the bullpen was being overused and that they needed another reliever. I checked, and none of the relievers had pitched as much as 3 innings in the last 7 days at that time.
I’m in agreement that I would rather have another player available on the bench than a 12th pitcher.
Bullpen overuse can result not only from pitching too many innings but also from getting up too many times. If Hargrove is getting guys up 2-3 times during a game and not putting them in he’s using them just as much as if he gets them in and they pitch a quick inning.
There were way too many times last year when he’d burn through 3 pitchers in quick succession for no particular reason.
Baker addresses the Guillen & Presinal connection that DMZ linked to last month…
What’s sad is that I think the FO expects us to be impressed that they upped the payroll. Unfortunately, they still fail to grasp that it’s not how much you spend, but rather how you spend it. Maybe a few more years of getting beaten up by an Oakland team with a much smaller payroll will teach them that, but I’m not counting on it.
I don’t think they fail to grasp that. I think they just have a different idea of how they ought to be spending their money than you — or I — do. They’re not trying to spend their money foolishly, it just works out that way.
But given year after year of evidence that the other guy is spending his smaller payroll more efficiently, don’t you think they’d pick upi on that?
That they continue to believe that they have the first clue about how to spend their money is just mind-boggling.
Art Thiel checks in with Lou
Any update on when THE CHEATER’S GUIDE will be shipped?
I just ordered it (and also ordered BURYING THE BLACK SOX). Amazon says that it will be shipped on April 6. (It should arrive just after we’ve lost interest in the 2007 Mariners–well after, for some.)