Everybody breathe

Dave · April 19, 2007 at 2:30 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Preliminary reports are that there is no structural damage. Official word coming shortly, but it sounds like Felix is okay.

Edit: Official News is “flexor strain”, won’t throw for 5 days, will be re-evaluated after that. “As good news as you can get”, per the doctor. Whew!

Comments

236 Responses to “Everybody breathe”

  1. Sparhawk2k on April 19th, 2007 2:31 pm

    *Jumps up and down and dances*

    Really though, if the official word doesn’t add any more what does that mean exactly? A missed start or two as he rests and makes sure everything is all right?

  2. royal curve on April 19th, 2007 2:35 pm

    I’m not entirely relieved yet, but it’s better news than I expected.

  3. Pete on April 19th, 2007 2:36 pm

    Sweet mercy.

  4. msb on April 19th, 2007 2:36 pm

    re: Drayer, Felix has been pretty happy today around the clubhouse, played flip as usual and as Dr K hasn’t arrived yet, the official report may be later than first announced ….

  5. S-Mac on April 19th, 2007 2:38 pm

    You know, “Dr K” sounds like a good alternate nickname for Felix.

  6. AuburnM on April 19th, 2007 2:38 pm

    Let me be careful how I say this….if the news is too good do you begin to worry about Felix asking to come out of the game?

  7. Ed on April 19th, 2007 2:38 pm

    Man, I hope he’s okay. This is the kind of thing that could break me as a fan.

  8. Pete on April 19th, 2007 2:39 pm

    #4,

    Where do you get Drayer’s commentary? Does she have a blog?

  9. oNeiRiC232 on April 19th, 2007 2:39 pm

    Preliminary reports also include the depressing news that Jeff Weaver’s MRI came up positive — his elbow is in fact still intact, and he will continue to “pitch.”

  10. DanO on April 19th, 2007 2:41 pm

    WWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Long live the King!

    #6: No. You count your blessings.

  11. Josh on April 19th, 2007 2:41 pm

    Why would you worry about him coming out of the game? Even if it was nothing but cold weather tightening it up, it’s better to be safe than sorry. Coming out of the game was the right decision, whether there was a real problem or not.

    At least one decision was made well last night.

  12. mpriest13 on April 19th, 2007 2:41 pm

    #6

    No Way. I am glad that he is being cautious.

  13. 88fingerslukee on April 19th, 2007 2:41 pm

    Does anybody know Felix’s middle name?

    Maybe we should start referring to him by that from now on.

  14. zzyzx on April 19th, 2007 2:42 pm

    6 – not if he thought something was wrong. I’d rather have him be a little overcautious and lose a game or two a year than have him be overoptimistic and lose a season or two.

  15. Pete on April 19th, 2007 2:42 pm

    #6,

    No! There hasn’t been a hint of evidence during his development that suggest that. He is a competitor.

    He’s also not an idiot. If he feels something in his elbow, he’s gonna let someone know. He wants to have a long career as much as we do.

  16. royal curve on April 19th, 2007 2:42 pm

    Drayer is reporting from the KOMO 1000 pre game show.

  17. Josh on April 19th, 2007 2:42 pm

    Does anybody know Felix’s middle name?

    Abraham

  18. 88fingerslukee on April 19th, 2007 2:44 pm

    Abraham

    Really?

  19. msb on April 19th, 2007 2:47 pm

    Let me be careful how I say this….if the news is too good do you begin to worry about Felix asking to come out of the game?

    no, because (according to other pitchers & coaches) a young pitcher has to learn his body and what is pain, what is achiness, what is safe, what isn’t:

    “”There absolutely is a point where a young pitcher learns what is normal pain and what isn’t,” said [Bryan] Price, whose career in the Anaheim system was wrecked by shoulder surgery in 1987. “The important part is learning the difference. After every outing there usually is stiffness. But the first time a pitcher feels that extra stiffness sends up a red flag.”"

    “Paul Abbott has learned musculoskeletal facts the hard way, 10 times on the disabled list, nine times with assorted arm ailments. “From 12 years old on, in Little League, you start feeling soreness in your arm,” said the right-hander, who bounced around for 15 years before sticking with Seattle last season. “The problem comes when you try to figure out what to do about a pain,” Abbott said. “If it’s the first time you feel it, you might want to see if you can work through it. If you complain and doctors find out its nothing, you worry about getting a name for being soft. Then there’s the other side of the coin. You try to pitch with a problem that gets worse, and they yell at you for not coming to you sooner. The bottom line is to be honest with yourself.”"

    “Arthur Rhodes, who had surgery for a torn labrum in his shoulder in 1995, estimated he felt 100 percent about 80 percent of the 72 times he worked last season. “Young guys don’t know what they can work through, what they can’t.” As Rhodes did, young pitchers often find out the hard way. “I learned if you’re tight or don’t feel right, tell someone,” he said. “When you get older and learn your body, how you react to pitching, you can make your own call. When you’re a young pro, let someone else make the decision and advise you what you can do and what you can’t.”"

  20. Pete on April 19th, 2007 2:47 pm

    Haha! Not to get religious, but does anyone else think that Abraham is awesome middle for Felix?

    I mean, if the Bible had free agency, the market would have been HUGE for Abraham’s services. Talk about a big name player…

  21. revbill on April 19th, 2007 2:47 pm

    Thanks again for the early info, Dave. I was hoping this was a case of the team having a better safe than sorry policy with Felix and wanting to pull him at any hint of trouble, and it sounds like that’s probably what this was.

  22. oNeiRiC232 on April 19th, 2007 2:47 pm

    I heard it was Jacob-Jingleheimer.

    No relation to John Smith.

  23. 88fingerslukee on April 19th, 2007 2:53 pm

    Just so you guys know…Abraham means exalted Father. That’s freaking awesome.

  24. Josh on April 19th, 2007 2:53 pm

    Yes, really.

  25. Steve T on April 19th, 2007 2:54 pm

    WHEW.

    First breath I’ve taken in 18 hours….

  26. royal curve on April 19th, 2007 2:55 pm

    I love listening to Dave. “Runs today could be as scarce as hen’s teeth.”

  27. 88fingerslukee on April 19th, 2007 2:55 pm

    Yes, really.

    I believe! I believe!

    Long Live King Abraham!

  28. royal curve on April 19th, 2007 2:56 pm

    Hey Steve T – you took me to my very first baseball game back in 2000, do you realize that? It was a poplist game. You, me, Mike A, etc.

  29. Steve T on April 19th, 2007 2:58 pm

    What? What? WHAT? I remember that. Our brains melted in the bleacher sun and ran freely down the aisle. I can’t remember who was at that game. Who are you? And how do you know I’m the same Steve T (I am, but…)

  30. royal curve on April 19th, 2007 3:01 pm

    Lisa Brandt. I know it’s you because after that many years on specific lists, you get to recognize people’s personalities. Plus there aren’t that many “Steve T”s in Seattle who like baseball and occasionally mention pop bands. Sorry to bore everyone else with it. offlist, it’s lab@wact.net

  31. darrylzero on April 19th, 2007 3:01 pm

    Clearly, there’s absolutely nothing to suggest that Felix is a wuss about these things. That’s what makes the Bayless comment so outrageous…it’s like Felix hasn’t already pitched a season and a half in the majors. I mean, don’t you think if he was prone to calling it quites when things weren’t going his way, he might have pulled this stunt a few times last year? You know, when he wasn’t exactly steamrolling the batters he was facing? Clearly, something was wrong. I don’t blame Bayless, really, that kind of BS is a major media meme. But it’s still stupid.

    You know, I almost wrote on Tuesday during the game thread that Weaver’s unbelievable horribleness was going to make the first start of Felix’s that he we didn’t win really depressing. Little did I know…

  32. msb on April 19th, 2007 3:02 pm

    Where do you get Drayer’s commentary? Does she have a blog?

    I was paraphrasing from the radio, but she does have a blog– it usually doesn’t get updated until after the game actually starts, though

  33. wabbles on April 19th, 2007 3:03 pm

    ‘breathing again’
    Yeah, after hearing the prognosis and reading through the posts I’m realizing that what King Felix did actually was very encouraging. The M’s wrecked their pitching prospects at a higher rate than other teams, in part, because we always told them to “suck it up” and “just pitch through it.” If they didn’t the organization thought they were wimps or something. I don’t know if they have changed philosophy or if being King Felix means he gets a mulligan. But either way, it’s good he stopped and good that he’s learning what feels right and wrong.

  34. mpriest13 on April 19th, 2007 3:04 pm

    “no structural damage” they said that last year with Liriano!

  35. edpellon on April 19th, 2007 3:05 pm

    Very happy about the preliminary report…One question though, do elbow problems ever really go away?

  36. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on April 19th, 2007 3:10 pm

    I know this was just a scare, but I recommend we do the same thing USS Mariner did with Snelling when they started calling him Doyle. Long live Patriarch Abraham! Father of the franchise!

  37. MrDurden on April 19th, 2007 3:10 pm

    #5 You know, “Dr K” sounds like a good alternate nickname for Felix.

    The Dwight Gooden comparisons are flirting with karma disaster enough. We do not need to start calling him Dr K.

    I recall reading somewhere a while back that the M’s would not allow Felix to throw his slider while in the minors out of fear for his elbow… Think they might have been on to something there?

  38. Dylan on April 19th, 2007 3:11 pm

    what station is the press conference on?

  39. royal curve on April 19th, 2007 3:11 pm

    komo 1000

  40. royal curve on April 19th, 2007 3:12 pm

    Only 5 day rest from throwing! Wow…

  41. zzyzx on April 19th, 2007 3:12 pm

    Won’t throw for 5 days :/

  42. Graham on April 19th, 2007 3:12 pm

    #34: No they didn’t. Everyone knew that Liriano was pitching with partially torn ligaments.

  43. zzyzx on April 19th, 2007 3:13 pm

    40 – heh, different perspectives on the same fact :)

  44. wabbles on April 19th, 2007 3:14 pm

    Surgeons have got Tommy John and similar surgery down to the point where, yes, elbow problems can go away (for professional athletes anyway). It’s the shoulder that ends your career and stays with you. (See any number of former M’s pitching prospects, some of whom are even pitching for the Red Sox and Royals.)

  45. Josh on April 19th, 2007 3:15 pm

    See what happens after 7-10 days once he’s been throwing again (if he does).

  46. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on April 19th, 2007 3:15 pm

    They’ve called it a Flexor strain. Can that kind of thing be chronic?

  47. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on April 19th, 2007 3:21 pm

    woo-hoo, my channeling of Putz non-issue elbow tightness in the last thread seems to have worked!!!!

  48. Dave on April 19th, 2007 3:23 pm

    Flexor strain is a similar diagnosis to arthritis. In other words, you tell doctor it hurts, doctor believes you, doctor isn’t sure why it hurts, therefore, you have arthritis.

  49. Evan on April 19th, 2007 3:24 pm

    Flexor? That’s in his forearm. Pineiro had that not too long ago, didn’t he?

    I’m annoyed Felix suffered exactly the same injury that other Mariner did so recently. It suggests perhaps we are no better with pitchers than we were before – we just got lucky for a bit.

  50. Replacement level poster on April 19th, 2007 3:24 pm

    A really hope that is the problem, and not the he will struggle for the next month and a half and then TJ surgery or something like that.

    Talk about a roller coaster of baseball emotions the last 24 hours.

  51. wabbles on April 19th, 2007 3:25 pm

    Not the infamous “Flexor bundle” again? Well all remember that diagnosis, don’t we?
    And yes 49, I’m beginning to wonder about that too.

  52. Steve T on April 19th, 2007 3:26 pm

    Hi, Lisa!

  53. machetemike on April 19th, 2007 3:27 pm

    just heard 10-20 days on KJR

  54. Josh on April 19th, 2007 3:27 pm

    It’s good that he stopped pitching, but if it’s diagnosed as an elbow flexor strain he’s probably going on the DL.

  55. msb on April 19th, 2007 3:27 pm

    Flexor strain is a similar diagnosis to arthritis. In other words, you tell doctor it hurts, doctor believes you, doctor isn’t sure why it hurts, therefore, you have arthritis.

    so, you’ve never had arthritis diagnosed, huh, Dave :)

  56. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on April 19th, 2007 3:39 pm

    Well, Dave and msb, there are a whole host of such conditions that manifest physical symptoms, but no physical cause is apparent. I used to handle litigation where these medical conditions came up quite a bit. The key was to whether it could be tied to a recognizable event or activity, or whether we were dealing with a complete somatization disorder of some kind (it’s amazing what the mind can do).

    I think it’s fair to say we can put together a number of early season factors that might have contributed to his arm feeling kind of weird as he breaks into a routine. I’m less likely to be concerned about a serious underlying problem right now. Though I won’t compltetly exhale until he’s notched a few more good starts.

  57. bp in dc on April 19th, 2007 3:41 pm

    Doyle watch – went down looking with 2 on, down by 2, to end the game in a loss to Jamie and the Sillies today in Washington.

  58. Josh on April 19th, 2007 3:42 pm

    Let’s hope he doesn’t follow in the Mike O’Connor vein. Pitch well to start the season, have a few bad outings (or just one), be diagnosed with an elbow flexor strain, take some time off, still be unable to pitch, have surgery in November, go on the 60-day DL, and hopefully be ready by the next All Star break.

    Of course, they did find a small cartilage defect in his elbow, but then again, that wasn’t found until during arthroscopic surgery.

    Flip side of the coin, I believe Pettite was diagnosed with the same near the end of last season, and is back to his normal self now.

  59. Karen on April 19th, 2007 3:43 pm

    Like I said elsewhere, I think Felix is lucky his pitching hand and arm didn’t fly off towards home plate after the velocity of his first 2 starts in such cold weather (reminiscent of the phrase, “colder than the ears on a brass monkey”).

    He probably never felt the strain until he got back here to (slightly warmer) Seattle.

  60. 88fingerslukee on April 19th, 2007 3:44 pm

    So basically we’re saying we have no idea what this means?

  61. 88fingerslukee on April 19th, 2007 3:45 pm

    Ahem, Game Thread?

  62. Josh on April 19th, 2007 3:45 pm

    Well, if we did know what it meant for Felix, we wouldn’t be having this intriguing conversation, right? :)

  63. 88fingerslukee on April 19th, 2007 3:46 pm

    True

  64. msb on April 19th, 2007 3:48 pm

    Doyle watch – went down looking with 2 on, down by 2, to end the game in a loss to Jamie and the Sillies today in Washington.

    nice game for Jamie– I think he liks the NL.

  65. Josh on April 19th, 2007 3:50 pm

    Now if only he could get out of playing half his games in Philly.

  66. Brian Rust on April 19th, 2007 3:52 pm

    Not to be superstitious or anything, but couldn’t that “call-him-by-his-middle-name-thing” end up getting King Felix senselessly traded for a mediocre has-been?

  67. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on April 19th, 2007 3:53 pm

    With most of his pitches in the 60′s and 70′s – and only some fastballs breaking 80, it’s funny to think that Felix throws nearly 30 MPH faster.

  68. bp in dc on April 19th, 2007 3:53 pm

    As much as I hate to say anything good about the Bombers, after what happened this afternoon in the Bronx, is there any doubt that A-Rod will go down as top 3 players of all time when it’s all said and done?

  69. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on April 19th, 2007 3:55 pm

    #66 – very good point. The implication there, though, is that Derek is partially responsible for getting Doyle traded (unless some commenter started the Doyle movement). . I don’t want any part of claiming that he’s responsible.

  70. bp in dc on April 19th, 2007 3:58 pm

    Ok, now just a fly ball…oh wait, Turbo is up. That makes a fly ball all but impossible.

  71. Swungonandbelted on April 19th, 2007 3:59 pm

    68. I hear you there. I almost hope A-rod keeps this pace up and takes the single season record from Bonds =)

  72. bp in dc on April 19th, 2007 4:00 pm

    Raul was about a week late on that 1-1 swing.

  73. _David_ on April 19th, 2007 4:02 pm

    Josh Rabe, or whover the twins have in left field, has no arm.

  74. juneau_fan on April 19th, 2007 4:02 pm

    Good god, what a mess of an inning, but I’ll take the one run!

  75. bmanuw on April 19th, 2007 4:03 pm

    What should the over under be on base running mistakes this season??
    I would 9000 ,We have had 3 in the last 2 innings(Beltre from last night and 2 already today)

  76. Josh on April 19th, 2007 4:03 pm

    Whoever that was has a horrible arm. I was calling Vidro out by at least 10 feet.

  77. Josh on April 19th, 2007 4:06 pm

    “Twins let a fairly decent DH get away from them, Mr. Ortiz.”

    Uhhh…. oh nevermind.

  78. bmanuw on April 19th, 2007 4:09 pm

    Wow..Washburn is a bunch of awful

  79. bp in dc on April 19th, 2007 4:11 pm

    Any bets on how foolish Johan makes Richie look? My money is on he ends up going down looking with his pants off, somehow.

  80. bmanuw on April 19th, 2007 4:22 pm

    Who wants to bet that this game gets out of hand by ..mhmm the 3rd inning? and that Johan doesnt give up another hit?

  81. fargomsfan on April 19th, 2007 4:23 pm

    Way to get out of the jam Wash…

  82. fargomsfan on April 19th, 2007 4:26 pm

    We want the funk; gotta have that funk!

  83. Swungonandbelted on April 19th, 2007 4:27 pm

    80. I’ll take that bet =D

  84. _David_ on April 19th, 2007 4:27 pm

    So how’s this for an interesting call? Marlins/Mets tied 1-1 bottom 1st, runner on second, no outs, Miguel Cabrera bunts the guy to third.

  85. dks on April 19th, 2007 4:30 pm

    So how’s this for an interesting call? Marlins/Mets tied 1-1 bottom 1st, runner on second, no outs, Miguel Cabrera bunts the guy to third.

    WPA -.014, says fangraphs. And given the Migual Cabrera is a well above-average hitter, it’s probably worse than that, really.

  86. _David_ on April 19th, 2007 4:35 pm

    actually the announcers were saying his side might be hurting him, and that’s why he bunted, but if that’s the case he shouldn’t be playing…

  87. Josh on April 19th, 2007 4:36 pm

    What was that, a Glove Double?

    If Willie ever starts in center we’ll have a horrible outfield defense.

  88. lurkingtwinsfan on April 19th, 2007 4:38 pm

    I felt bad for you Mariner fans last night watching The King call for himself to come out of the game. It was eerily similar to late last year when Francisco Liriano asked out off a game ofor my Twins. I know a lot of you have your hopes up now that this isn’t serious, but it behooves the Mariners at this point to say little about the injury.

    Also, we’ll be breaking out the brooms tonight, fellas, enjoy.

  89. zzyzx on April 19th, 2007 4:39 pm

    Off of Washburn’s leg?

  90. Josh on April 19th, 2007 4:39 pm

    Hope nothing’s wrong with Washburn. As much as he’s not Cy Young a rotation of Batista, Ramirez, Weaver, Woods and Baek does not sound intriguing.

  91. Josh on April 19th, 2007 4:39 pm

    Looked like hand/wrist but I didn’t see a replay.

  92. _David_ on April 19th, 2007 4:40 pm

    Well both teams have crafty lefthanders, but ours is more veteran, and has a ring.

  93. zzyzx on April 19th, 2007 4:40 pm

    88 – thanks for those oh so kind words. I also have a cut that you can pour lemon juice on if you want to.

  94. zzyzx on April 19th, 2007 4:41 pm

    91 – thanks. I’m following on gameday.

  95. _David_ on April 19th, 2007 4:42 pm

    Vidro’s close to catching Pujols in OPS

  96. Josh on April 19th, 2007 4:42 pm

    And ours has Strandabilityâ„¢. The priceless skill.

  97. lurkingtwinsfan on April 19th, 2007 4:42 pm

    93: Just trying to bring reality to this board’s desire to be as rosy as possible.

  98. Josh on April 19th, 2007 4:43 pm

    Every rose has its thorns.

    Not that I’m saying anything…

  99. dks on April 19th, 2007 4:44 pm

    So, which team would win a 100M relay race — Edgar/Olerud in their last year together as Mariners, or Ibanez/Vidro?

    And why do our managers think these teams should be next to each other in the batting order?

  100. zzyzx on April 19th, 2007 4:45 pm

    97 – generalizing from a sample size of one incident isn’t always accurate.

  101. lurkingtwinsfan on April 19th, 2007 4:47 pm

    99 – At lesat you don’t have Tyner/Bartlett/Castillo/Punto—aka the Piranahas—hitting back to back to back to back. They combine for about 2 home runs per year.

  102. revbill on April 19th, 2007 4:48 pm

    Just trying to bring reality to this board’s desire to be as rosy as possible.

    You must be new here.

  103. Swungonandbelted on April 19th, 2007 4:49 pm

    Some pitch efficiency there

  104. Josh on April 19th, 2007 4:50 pm

    Well, Weaver was doing his best to make it 3. Tyner must have felt sorry for him, or maybe he feels bad getting cheap any homeruns.

  105. zzyzx on April 19th, 2007 4:50 pm

    102- heh, yeah I don’t recall anyone here expecting much more than 82-83 wins barring a massive fluke.

  106. Josh on April 19th, 2007 4:50 pm

    Ah, -del- doesn’t make strikethrough here. Well, I tried being fancy.

  107. Livengood on April 19th, 2007 4:51 pm

    dks asked:

    So, which team would win a 100M relay race — Edgar/Olerud in their last year together as Mariners, or Ibanez/Vidro?

    Vidro/Ibanez, hands-down. They may be slow, but they aren’t THAT slow.

  108. lurkingtwinsfan on April 19th, 2007 4:53 pm

    102 – For the most part, yes, new. I’ve checked out this site from time to time, but came to see how ya’ll were reacting to the Felix news. I was similarly optimistic when Liriano went down last year. While I’m sure you all are quite negative, it seems like everone is taking a glass half full approach to Felix.

    Anyone tell me what just happend to Luis Castillo?

  109. Livengood on April 19th, 2007 4:56 pm

    lurkingtwinsfan asked:

    Anyone tell me what just happend to Luis Castillo?

    I’m no doctor, but it looks like a strained hammy, to me.

  110. fargomsfan on April 19th, 2007 4:57 pm

    I see strained hammy

  111. _David_ on April 19th, 2007 4:58 pm

    108: There was no shred of positive outlook before the latest medical update. Now we are just waiting. We aren’t being “overly optimistic,” just going by what the docter says.

  112. Josh on April 19th, 2007 4:58 pm

    Washburn’s been getting some breaks. Team LOB: Min – 7, Sea – 0.

  113. Josh on April 19th, 2007 4:59 pm

    Knew I shouldn’t have blinked, I missed the Mariners’ ABs.

  114. fargomsfan on April 19th, 2007 4:59 pm

    Whatever it takes to win; whatever it takes

  115. dks on April 19th, 2007 5:04 pm

    Gameday’s glitching — it reports Washburn’s pitch sequence to Redmond as “Called Strike, In play, out(s), Foul, Swinging Strike”. New kind of double play, I guess — ground out, strike him out ?

  116. Pete on April 19th, 2007 5:05 pm

    lurkingtwinsfan –

    This is normally a pretty calculated, pessimistic group… But when it comes to Felix’s injury, our positive outlook is more self-preservation than anything. I’m outwardly cheering for joy, trying to convince myself everything is ok. Inside, I’m trying to suppress all of the scary feelings. Self-preservation man.

    Long live the King!

  117. bp in dc on April 19th, 2007 5:06 pm

    Very nice half inning by Wash there. Needed to avoid baserunners, as much as his numbers tonight suggest they aren’t an issue.

  118. Otto on April 19th, 2007 5:10 pm

    Glad initial diagnosis is just a strain. I wasn’t looking forward to a season without the king. Washburn is having a descent outing lets just hope we can scratch a few more runs out of Santana.

  119. kentroyals5 on April 19th, 2007 5:11 pm

    I want Santana on our team..amazing pitcher..please sign him if we can! haha

  120. bp in dc on April 19th, 2007 5:13 pm

    Sweet Jesus his change is almost unhittable.

  121. loki on April 19th, 2007 5:20 pm

    back-to-back bunt singles?!

  122. AuburnM on April 19th, 2007 5:22 pm

    Washburn is solid.

    Guillen in right, not so much.

  123. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:22 pm

    Julio “Ground Ball” Mateo

    I can see the postgame comments already.

  124. Rusty on April 19th, 2007 5:22 pm

    I took one for the team, today. As a consequence, in about 30 or 40 years when I die of old age, the Devil owns my soul. Small price to pay for another 15-20 years of watching Felix in good health.

  125. _David_ on April 19th, 2007 5:24 pm

    If Morrow is so important to our bullpen that he needs to delay his development to pitch here, why is he considered less capable than Mateo in this high leverage situation?

  126. Pete on April 19th, 2007 5:25 pm

    #123,

    Haha, yeah, I can’t wait for that ground ball sacrifice fly… or grounder lined on one hop off the wall in right center.

    Worst manager. Ever.

  127. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on April 19th, 2007 5:25 pm

    holy shit. Mateo? Again?

  128. msb on April 19th, 2007 5:25 pm

    crap.

  129. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:25 pm

    Well, it was a double, play.

  130. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on April 19th, 2007 5:25 pm

    And there you have it. My God, someone needs to kick Hargrove in the nads.

  131. Pete on April 19th, 2007 5:26 pm

    Haha, well, I was close.

  132. go mariners go huskies on April 19th, 2007 5:26 pm

    WHERE WAS SHERRILL?

  133. msb on April 19th, 2007 5:26 pm

    I was just thinking ‘wonder how Mateo will vulture a win today’….

  134. Otto on April 19th, 2007 5:27 pm

    #$%!@#$%$#%!@

  135. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on April 19th, 2007 5:27 pm

    msb, we can only be so lucky now.

  136. lurkingtwinsfan on April 19th, 2007 5:27 pm

    Finally, the Twins get a hit with a runner in scoring position.

  137. shortbus on April 19th, 2007 5:27 pm

    Wow. And Hargrove has officially taken the game back that he gave us by getting that game in Cleveland postponed.

  138. Jordan of Boise on April 19th, 2007 5:27 pm

    It’s fitting that they played “Ring of Fire” when Mateo came out, because that’s what my brown eye feels like now.

  139. go mariners go huskies on April 19th, 2007 5:28 pm

    good night

    mateo is garbage and everyone knows it except grover

  140. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:28 pm

    Another double, play!

    Grover was all over this situation! What nice handling.

  141. lurkingtwinsfan on April 19th, 2007 5:29 pm

    If I were Hargrove, I’d have pitched to Mauer and Morneau instead of the two righties. Then again, the M&M boys are the batting champ and MVP respectivley!!!!

  142. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on April 19th, 2007 5:30 pm

    For anybody that claims Grover is just a reflective study who will get things eventually . . yeah, not so much. Mateo is the new Ayala for me.

  143. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:30 pm

    If the excuse isn’t that Mateo is a good groundball pitcher and he went with the best option, it’ll probably be that Mateo was tired after pitching yesterday.

  144. atait on April 19th, 2007 5:30 pm

    What, exactly, does Julio Mateo bring to a big-league ballclub?

  145. kentroyals5 on April 19th, 2007 5:30 pm

    I hate being a Mariner fan…incompetent ass management

  146. lurkingtwinsfan on April 19th, 2007 5:30 pm

    And why pull Washburn for Mateo when Cuddyer is coming up and he was 0-3 against Washburn.

    You guys need to get rid of Hargrove.

  147. bp in dc on April 19th, 2007 5:30 pm

    What a fucking joke. Your 2007 Seattle Mariners!

  148. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:31 pm

    Lurking, it’s not so much to whom he chose to pitch, but who he chose to pitch to whom.

  149. Brandon on April 19th, 2007 5:31 pm

    At least point I hope they keep on scoring. Mateo always comes in and allows other people’s runners to score so his ERA never goes up. This in turn never makes his stats look bad and he plays more. Yuck.

  150. Red Apple on April 19th, 2007 5:31 pm

    Note to Seattle Marniners management team: April 19 would be a fine day to fire Hargrove. You’d be hard-pressed to find a person on this board that didn’t see that extra base hit coming. Sweet Jesus.

  151. Red Apple on April 19th, 2007 5:32 pm

    I’m so pissed I misspelled “Mariners.”

  152. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on April 19th, 2007 5:32 pm

    #143, that’d work, but Mateo did pitch last night too.

  153. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:32 pm

    If we had competent management, Putz could have been used in this situation, since this was the moment where the game, to anyone with eyes, was on the line.

  154. go mariners go huskies on April 19th, 2007 5:32 pm

    reitsma and sherrill should be used in tight situations

    mateo should only be called upon when we are down by 4+ runs early and we need someone to eat up innings

  155. _David_ on April 19th, 2007 5:33 pm

    Again, if Hargrove trusts Mateo in important situations more than Morrow, Morrow should be in the minors.

  156. Nuss on April 19th, 2007 5:33 pm

    144: In the M’s marketing scheme it’s Julio, the lovable fat guy! Inspiring fat kids everywhere that they, too can eat themselves into a major league baseball job!

  157. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:33 pm

    #143, that’d work, but Mateo did pitch last night too.

    That’s what I was referring to – e.g. with better rest he would have made that GIDP.

  158. billT on April 19th, 2007 5:34 pm

    I don’t think managers make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. But a basic lack of knowledge concerning your own players should be enough to get him fired. How pathetic.

  159. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on April 19th, 2007 5:34 pm

    #157 – I re-read your comment right as I hit send. Sorry about that. The blood that has rushed to my head in my current rage is obviously giving me vision problems.

  160. atait on April 19th, 2007 5:35 pm

    153 – No team does that. Bill James had a point, but don’t start believing that such is the norm.

    And NOW we see Sherril…

  161. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:35 pm

    I don’t think a great manager will help a team too much over what a “decent” manager would bring, but a manager making consistently poor decisions can hurt a lot.

  162. atait on April 19th, 2007 5:36 pm

    155 – EXACTLY.

    I still haven’t heard one good reason why Morrow’s three innings/week make this team so much better that it’s worth possibly stunting Morrow’s development as a starter.

  163. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:37 pm

    153 – No team does that. Bill James had a point, but don’t start believing that such is the norm.

    Boston’s done that with Papelbon, right? Of course sometimes they just leave him in for two innings.

  164. zsiron on April 19th, 2007 5:38 pm

    mateo must give really good clubhouse head

  165. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:38 pm

    159 – I don’t see anything nasty from you, so I guess, no harm done. :)

  166. playdoh309 on April 19th, 2007 5:38 pm

    what’s the statistical analysis between jurassic carl from 06 and turbo vidro from 07?

  167. Red Apple on April 19th, 2007 5:40 pm

    If we had competent management, Putz could have been used in this situation, since this was the moment where the game, to anyone with eyes, was on the line.

    sarcasm/
    Use your best reliever with the game hanging in the balance? And it’s not the 9th inning? Don’t you see how important it is for closers to rack up saves?
    /sarcasm

  168. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:40 pm

    Funny thing is Washburn could have been left in to finish the inning and it probably would have ended no worse than 4-2, rather than 6-2 as is.

  169. atait on April 19th, 2007 5:40 pm

    163 – you will see teams bring in their closer in tough spots in the eighth on occasion, but I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a team use their closer in high-leverage situations in the seventh or sixth.

  170. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:41 pm

    Use your best reliever with the game hanging in the balance? And it’s not the 9th inning? Don’t you see how important it is for closers to rack up saves?

    What are you talking about? Best relievers vulture wins! That’s why Grover used Mateo in the game-defining moment – he’s the greatest!

  171. Red Apple on April 19th, 2007 5:42 pm

    This is why, in general, I hate relief pitchers. For the most part, if they were any damn good, they’d be starters.

  172. milehighmariner on April 19th, 2007 5:42 pm

    Is Grover ever going to figure out that Mateo sucks worse as a pitcher than HE does as a manager? Perfect spot to put in Putz and see if your ace closer can get those high leverage outs that really win games!!!

  173. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:42 pm

    163 – you will see teams bring in their closer in tough spots in the eighth on occasion, but I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a team use their closer in high-leverage situations in the seventh or sixth.

    Gotcha, sorry for misunderstanding the last one.

  174. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on April 19th, 2007 5:43 pm

    Anybody have Grover’s email address?

  175. msb on April 19th, 2007 5:43 pm

    once again, one of those games where you wish the scorer could assign the win or loss.

  176. Mat on April 19th, 2007 5:44 pm

    Boston’s done that with Papelbon, right? Of course sometimes they just leave him in for two innings.

    According to Papelbon’s Baseball Reference splits, he’s only pitched in the sixth and seventh innings four times in his career, and some of those were as a starter. Last year he didn’t make any appearances before the 8th inning. He was used 18 times in the 8th last year, though.

  177. Red Apple on April 19th, 2007 5:44 pm

    I’m so pissed I’ve been using commas like there’s a fire sale.

    Arghhh! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, !!!!!

  178. argh on April 19th, 2007 5:45 pm

    Since Seattle appears to be the new Kansas City, what’s the best place in town to get a big, bloody steak and maybe a baked potato the size of one of Mateo’s hangers?

  179. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:45 pm

    Thanks, so probably not the 7th.

    In this case, though, I would have used Putz. 7th inning, up one against Santana, bases-loaded. Just me, though.

  180. Swungonandbelted on April 19th, 2007 5:45 pm
  181. bmanuw on April 19th, 2007 5:46 pm

    Awwww and everything is right with the world. I knew that 5-3 start was a mirage. Its painful to see the M’s crap all over themselves and get swept at home. My friends..this is the beginning of the end.

  182. _David_ on April 19th, 2007 5:47 pm

    now I think Putz is warming up.

  183. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:47 pm

    Mmmm, fire sale.

    If there’s one good thing about the way the team is headed now…

  184. msb on April 19th, 2007 5:48 pm

    sigh. so the piranhas did their usual job, Mateo did his usual job, and viola.

  185. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:48 pm

    now I think Putz is warming up.

    Yeah. He needs to get work in. It’s not like he’ll get his first save opportunity anytime soon.

  186. lurkingtwinsfan on April 19th, 2007 5:49 pm

    181 – Don’t get too depressed. You ran into the Minnesota buzzsaw. Realize you are losing to a 2 time Cy Young Award winner tonight and the M&M boys. Though, what really beat you guys were those consecutive bunt singles. God bless Ron Gardenhire and his amazing strategery.

  187. argh on April 19th, 2007 5:49 pm

    now I think Putz is warming up

    “Sir! Sir! The dike has broken and a wall of water 20 meters high is sweeping across Holland! What shall we do?”
    “Call the Little Dutch Boy, and tell him to grease up his finger.”

  188. Red Apple on April 19th, 2007 5:50 pm

    It’s only a two-game series sweep. Relax. If Felix hadn’t gone down last night, we probably would have won that one. And who really expects to beat Santana? I’m mighty aggravated, but not about to jump off a bridge.

  189. Karen on April 19th, 2007 5:50 pm

    Yeah, that’s really smart, Hargrove. Have the bullpen coach hand Mateo a gas can on his way in from the bullpen, and then give our purported CLOSER a chance to pitch mop-up.

  190. lurkingtwinsfan on April 19th, 2007 5:51 pm

    184—Most of us Twins fans actually hate the piranhas, though it’s good to win playing small ball when you need to.

  191. Red Apple on April 19th, 2007 5:51 pm

    184: Viola? He hasn’t pitched for the Twins for years. (rimshot)

    It’s “voila.”

  192. Karen on April 19th, 2007 5:52 pm

    Of course it wouldn’t look so bad if our vaunted offense could act like the “professional hitters” they are called so many times.

  193. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:56 pm

    Requirements for Professional Hitter status:

    Must be 28+ years.
    Must play a corner OF or IF position.
    Must hit at least .250.
    Must not outwalk your Ks.
    Must “get in good swings” and “not get cheated up there.”

    *Being a lefty adds a 50% chance to your acceptance rate.

  194. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:57 pm

    Hey, Betancourt’s seen the most pitches of any batter so far this inning. What a great sign.

  195. Josh on April 19th, 2007 5:58 pm

    Sorry, I left out DHs as candidates, too.

  196. bmanuw on April 19th, 2007 5:59 pm

    186..a Twins troll, gotta love them, there team always make a run but always chokes it away in the Playoffs, and you gotta feel bad for them since they have no other teams worth watching(twolves and vikes)

  197. Josh on April 19th, 2007 6:00 pm

    *Mentions something about Puckett being overrated*

  198. Pete on April 19th, 2007 6:06 pm

    #174,

    Nope, but I just sent the M’s another Hargrove email. It’s so easy to outline an argument for his idiocy, I could do it in my sleep.

  199. _David_ on April 19th, 2007 6:08 pm

    I can imagine Neshek would be annoying to hit against.

  200. lurkingtwinsfan on April 19th, 2007 6:13 pm

    SWEEP!

  201. lurkingtwinsfan on April 19th, 2007 6:15 pm

    197 – You shouldn’t take shots at dead Hall of Famers. It’s bad form.

  202. David* on April 19th, 2007 6:19 pm

    Sweet Rauuuuuuul!

  203. Josh on April 19th, 2007 6:20 pm

    Well at least everyone in the ballpark knows exactly what Sexson is going to try to do.

  204. Karen on April 19th, 2007 6:20 pm

    You know what’s REALLY annoying…

    To know we’re now within 1 run in the bottom of the 9th, 2 outs, in a game that never should have been 6-2 before Raul’s HR in the first place.

  205. _David_ on April 19th, 2007 6:20 pm

    201: Oh yeah? Rogers Hornsby was a jerk!

  206. Josh on April 19th, 2007 6:21 pm

    197 – You shouldn’t take shots at dead Hall of Famers. It’s bad form.

    How is it taking a shot against him to say that he is overrated? That means I’m taking a shot at the people who overrate him. You can be a very good player and still be overrated.

  207. Jordan of Boise on April 19th, 2007 6:21 pm

    I’m wondering if Hargrove’s man-crush on WFB isn’t because he just gets him confused with Raul Ibanez. Gawky looking white guys and all – but that was some grrrrit.

  208. David* on April 19th, 2007 6:22 pm

    k

  209. A Series of Tubes on April 19th, 2007 6:23 pm

    !!!!!!!!!!

  210. Josh on April 19th, 2007 6:23 pm

    I smell a Bloomquist PR.

  211. David* on April 19th, 2007 6:23 pm

    I meant double :D

  212. Josh on April 19th, 2007 6:24 pm

    Will Willie be thrown out trying to score from second on an infield single?

  213. BayAreaFan on April 19th, 2007 6:24 pm

    C’mon Jose, it’s time to introduce yourself to Seattle.

  214. Karen on April 19th, 2007 6:24 pm

    RE: #208 and 211: Yeah, that was unexpected…!

  215. A Series of Tubes on April 19th, 2007 6:25 pm

    damn train

  216. Josh on April 19th, 2007 6:26 pm

    Ballgame.

  217. David* on April 19th, 2007 6:26 pm

    I was just early :D

  218. planB on April 19th, 2007 6:27 pm

    213: “Hi, I’m Jose, and-…” strikethree

  219. Jordan of Boise on April 19th, 2007 6:27 pm

    And it’s over. Another Mateo blanket party.

  220. Josh on April 19th, 2007 6:28 pm

    Nathan hasn’t really impressed me thus far this season.

  221. lurkingtwinsfan on April 19th, 2007 6:30 pm

    206-Bring some evidence if you think he was overrated. 1991 World Series is enough for me. The catch and then the homer. Not to mention a batting championship, numerious gold golves a plus 300 batting average, consistent power in a non power hitting era and one damn greaet personality. He loved the game more than any player out there today, and Kirby wore it on his face.

    Also, enjoy the three game sweet Mariner fans. It’s been fun in Seattle.

  222. Dave Clapper on April 19th, 2007 6:32 pm

    Mateo’s WPA: -.446
    The rest of the team: -.058 (and a big chunk of that is Guillen’s K to end the game)

    Thanks a lot, Grover.

  223. bmanuw on April 19th, 2007 6:32 pm

    well there always next year

  224. Josh on April 19th, 2007 6:34 pm

    Grover and Mateo snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

  225. Dave Clapper on April 19th, 2007 6:35 pm

    Oops. The rest of the team was -.054.

  226. Josh on April 19th, 2007 6:39 pm

    Well, there is one good thing:

    “After an MRI and an examination by the team’s doctor, Edward Khalfayan, it was determined that Hernandez has a Grade 1 (mildest) flexor-pronator strain in his right elbow. Khalfayan told reporters just before Thursday’s game that “it was as good as news as you can expect.” Had he suffered damage to his ulnar collateral ligament, Hernandez would have needed season-ending surgery.”

  227. BigB on April 19th, 2007 6:52 pm

    Thank God, we’re toast without Felix. We may be toast with Felix becuase our bullpen needs help. Too bad we got rid of Soriano…

  228. Josh on April 19th, 2007 6:54 pm

    Anyone listen to postgame comments on TV? Was hoping to get something from Grover about Mateo coming in to get groundballs, but no quotes in the recap online.

  229. argh on April 19th, 2007 7:04 pm

    We may be toast with Felix

    Personally, I’m laying in a major supply of jams and jellies. But that’s just me.

  230. NBarnes on April 19th, 2007 7:30 pm

    You can be a very good player and still be overrated.

    *coughderekjetercough*

  231. Mat on April 19th, 2007 8:29 pm

    Nathan hasn’t really impressed me thus far this season.

    Nathan’s been crap so far this season, but it seems mostly that he’s had shaky command. I would suspect that’ll come back eventually, but the Twins are certainly a lot less good if Nathan turns out to be human after all.

  232. msb on April 19th, 2007 8:40 pm

    184: Viola? He hasn’t pitched for the Twins for years. (rimshot) It’s “voila.”

    so, too young to remember Pogo?

    on the postgame, there were back to back radio calls illustrating just why the Ms think about their fans as they do:

    ‘why isn’t Rick Rizzs on the tv anymore?’

    ‘when are we going to see more of Willie Bloomquist? I sure think he is something…’

  233. davepaisley on April 19th, 2007 8:43 pm

    sigh. so the piranhas did their usual job, Mateo did his usual job, and viola.

    Meh, Mateo looks more like a cello. Or a bass. Or a double bass.

  234. davepaisley on April 19th, 2007 8:47 pm

    He loved the game more than any player out there today, and Kirby wore it on his face.

    Apparently that’s not the only thing he loved

  235. davepaisley on April 19th, 2007 8:51 pm

    #201

    And don’t tell me I can’t badmouth Ty Cobb when i feel like it, either. He’s been dead a lot longer.

  236. marinerschas2 on April 19th, 2007 11:31 pm

    could this be worrysome about the mariners management ineptitude.
    straight from the very bottom of the hernandez article on the AP baseball wire.

    Triple-A reliever Eric O’Flaherty was in the Mariners’ clubhouse after Thursday’s game and is likely to be recalled from Tacoma before Friday’s game at the Los Angeles Angels. O’Flaherty, a left-hander, could be the bullpen replacement for Morrow if the rookie does take Hernandez’s place.

    sure, have morrow learn how to start in baseball, by giving him starts in the big leagues.

    i don’t see anything good coming out of that

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