Random Notes

Dave · June 15, 2007 at 7:37 am · Filed Under Mariners 

Haven’t done of these in a while. So, on to the blurbs.

Daily Adam Jones Update: 3 for 5, double, steal. He still belongs in the Mariners line-up.

The M’s recalled Ryan Feierabend from Tacoma after the game last night, shipping Jake Woods back to Triple-A. Feierabend was already with the team in Chicago, as they flew him out Wednesday in case Miguel Batista wasn’t able to go deep in the game. Feierabend is expected to work out of the bullpen until the team finally throws Jeff Weaver overboard.

And, seriously, Jeff Weaver’s still not good. Results based analysis will tell you he calmed down and settled into a groove. It’s not true, though – we’ve talked about Weaver’s batting average on balls in play eventually regressing to the mean, and that’s what happened in innings 2 through 6. When you pitch to contact, sometimes guys will drive the ball and sometimes they won’t. It has a lot more to do with the hitter than the pitcher.

In case we weren’t sure, J.J. Putz has cemented himself as the best reliever in baseball. And, to boot, George Sherrill now has a great argument as the best LH reliever in baseball. Those two are lights out at the end of ballgames. Brandon Morrow, not so much.

The M’s should have already been looking forward to facing a bad Astros team this weekend. Well, that bad Astros team just got even worse – defensive wizard Adam Everett collided with Carlos Lee and predictably got the worst of it, breaking his leg, and is now on the DL for the next two months. Taking the best defensive player in the game off a team that was already going nowhere makes this an even easier series for the M’s. They really should take 2 of 3, and a sweep wouldn’t even be much of a challenge. Houston’s a bad baseball team.

I mentioned that Dan Fox was doing some really cool work with the advanced gameday data from MLB.com, and that he was going to have some great stuff about Felix shortly. The article I was referring to was published at BP yesterday. If you’re a subscriber, it’s required reading. If you’re not, here’s the basic summary – everything we’ve said in the Charting Felix series is demonstrably true, and Felix’s velocity and movement is significantly down from his opening day start against the A’s. The pitches just aren’t breaking like they did in his first start, and he’s not throwing as hard. It’s something to be concerned about, honestly.


181 Responses to “Random Notes”

  1. Thom Jimsen on June 15th, 2007 3:44 pm

    #145: No, but that’s a false argument. I don’t run a baseball team, I live my life. The goal in all sports endeavors is to perform successfully and with integrity. It’s my opinion that the Astros are doing neither in regard to Biggio.

  2. 93MPHSlider.wow. on June 15th, 2007 3:46 pm

    The Astros would have less integrity if they cut him before this year when he wanted to come back. And they still would not be successful.

  3. Thom Jimsen on June 15th, 2007 3:51 pm

    The Astros have made a number of dumb decisions in the last year (hello??? Woody Williams???) but I don’t know how you can authoritatively say the team was destined to fail no matter what they did during the last offseason. What would back up such an assertion?

  4. Evan on June 15th, 2007 3:52 pm

    Wandy is killing my HACKING MASS team.

  5. Evan on June 15th, 2007 3:54 pm

    Jim has one very good point, here. Despite what fans might say in focus groups, or what teams might think fans want, this season’s attendance always correlates very well with last season’s winning percentage.

    How or why they won or lost doesn’t actually affect attendance.

  6. 93MPHSlider.wow. on June 15th, 2007 3:56 pm

    No one said the team was destined to fail no matter what they did last offseason. But the Biggio decision was not the deciding factor in their success. Therefore, if they had uncerimoniously cut him like you would have preferred, they would probably be a very similar team right now, but with a whole lot more angry fans and empty seats.
    And contrary to your belief that the goal in all sports endeavors is to perform successfully, the actual goal of MLB teams is to make money.

  7. Tek Jansen on June 15th, 2007 3:57 pm

    #144 – I would suspect that Ichiro will collect his 3000th hit prior to the 2017 season. Or he better. Rembember, he plans on converting to a pitcher at age 40.

  8. scraps on June 15th, 2007 3:58 pm

    If the Astros dumped Biggio after last year, they could never again seriously expect loyalty from a player.

    Thom, this may be news to you, but baseball players and executives are also people living their lives. The goal of a company is to make money; do we condemn them when they sacrifice some of that goal for decent human concerns? The goal of winning in sports should not be more absolute than any other life goal, and no goal that completely ignores human concerns is worth pursuing, in my opinion.

    It’s just sports. I love sports, but if anything is more important than treating loyal people decently, it sure as hell isn’t winning at sports! In my goddamned opinion.

  9. dnc on June 15th, 2007 3:59 pm

    155 – I think you’re speaking a little too strongly there. Yes, prior seasons winning percentage is the strongest correlation to attendance. However, that is not without exceptions. Remember McGwire and Sosa chasing Maris’ record? Remember Ripken’s pursuit of the consecutive games streak?

    There are exceptions to the rule, and I think it’s highly likely that Biggio’s pursuit of 3000 hits is going to put more butts in the seats (and more eyes on the TV and more ears on the radio) in Houston than they would have had in this lost season otherwise.

    Will his presence cost them enough games that next season’s attendance dips enough to offset his value this year? Possible, but, given the alternatives they had at 2B outlined throughout this thread, I highly doubt it.

  10. Thom Jimsen on June 15th, 2007 4:28 pm

    What’s so great about loyalty?

  11. Xteve X on June 15th, 2007 4:36 pm


    C’mon Jim, Biggio is still their franchise guy regardless of how badly he’s fallen off. They are no more likely to put Biggio out to pasture than the M’s were with Boone, Olerud or Edgar … and all 3 of those guys were pretty clearly past their sell-by dates near the end.

    I understand your point but that’s never going to happen in reality. What Astro fan is NOT going to want to see Biggio get 3000 hits regardless of how bad a year he’s having.

  12. dw on June 15th, 2007 4:37 pm

    Not if he was contractually obligated to play for Houston. Giles was still under team control with the Braves, so if the Braves had traded him instead of non-tendering him, Giles had no choice.

    Let’s see how that conversation would go:

    ASTROS: Hey, you want to give us Giles?

    BRAVES: Sure. We need a reliever.

    ASTROS: We’ll give you Brad Lidge.

    BRAVES: Willy Taveras.

    ASTROS: Hello? I think I’m losing you, I’m going through a tunnel [click]

    His line of 230/275/385 certainly suggests so, and is very similar to 231/299/385, Bret Boone’s final line with the M’s.

    Speaking of, I talked to a woman last year who refuses to go to games because they dumped Bret Boone.

    Can’t win for losing.

  13. dw on June 15th, 2007 4:37 pm

    What’s so great about loyalty?

    Ask A-Rod.

  14. Sammy on June 15th, 2007 4:38 pm


    Do you believe sentimentality has any place in sports at all? If you don’t, I’m not sure what I can say, and I’m not sure why you even follow a home team instead of following the best and the brightest every year. You are loyal to your team, aren’t you?

    If you do believe sentimentality has a place, then loyalty matters to 99% of the fans. For every Astros fan that’s under the age of 30, Biggio has lived and died with their team for the entire course of their fandom. He MEANS something to these people, something more important than a couple extra wins a year.

  15. Sammy on June 15th, 2007 4:40 pm

    The last sentence of my post should read:
    “[…] something more important that a couple extra wins this year.”

  16. Thom Jimsen on June 15th, 2007 4:40 pm

    No, I don’t believe sentimentality has any place in sports. I believe my coming-of-age Mariners memories matter to me, but I’d have traded any of them for one winning record in the first 15 years of the franchise.

  17. dnc on June 15th, 2007 4:41 pm

    I feel obliged to point out that, while they are on the same side of this debate, Jim Thomsen and Thom Jimsen are not, I believe, the same person. I believe Jim is being credited (or perhaps blamed) for many of Thom’s comments in this thread.

  18. Thom Jimsen on June 15th, 2007 4:41 pm

    #163: A-Rod is the greatest player in baseball. If lack of loyalty got him there, so much the better.

  19. Sammy on June 15th, 2007 4:42 pm


    . . .

    I don’t believe you. Why do you root for the M’s? Why not root for the best players/teams every year?

  20. Thom Jimsen on June 15th, 2007 4:42 pm

    Actually, Jim Thomsen posts from home; Thom Jimsen posts from work. (The reasons are complicated but for some reason I can’t post as Jim from the office.) They are the same person.

  21. Sammy on June 15th, 2007 4:42 pm


    Jesus Christ, that clears a lot of things up.

  22. Thom Jimsen on June 15th, 2007 4:43 pm

    I root for the M’s because I believe they usually try the best that they are able. The last few years have been a serious challenge to that belief, however.

  23. dnc on June 15th, 2007 4:43 pm

    Interesting. My bad Jim/Thom.

  24. Grizz on June 15th, 2007 4:44 pm

    They are no more likely to put Biggio out to pasture than the M’s were with Boone, Olerud or Edgar … and all 3 of those guys were pretty clearly past their sell-by dates near the end.

    Boone and Olerud say moo.

  25. dw on June 15th, 2007 4:47 pm

    Oh, and if Biggio has a huge weekend and kills the M’s, I’m personally holding both Jim Thomsen and Thom Jimsen responsible.

  26. Thom Jimsen on June 15th, 2007 4:48 pm

    Me too.

  27. _David_ on June 15th, 2007 4:49 pm

    Dave, you mentioned Everett as one of the 5-10 best defenders ever. Is Cameron anywhere near that designation? Griffey?

  28. Sammy on June 15th, 2007 4:57 pm


    I still don’t believe you. I think you’ve dug yourself a ridiculous hole and you’re bull-headedly digging yourself deeper (to mix metaphors…). You are loyal to this team because you grew up rooting for this team and you want your hometeam, the team from your childhood to win it all one day. That is sentimental. If you were looking for the best run or most efficient team or most exciting team you’d have jumped this ship long time ago. But you’re still here, just like we all are.

  29. thewyrm on June 15th, 2007 5:11 pm

    157. Well, I was being a little cautious and figured 10 years would be a good figure for 1500 hits granting drop offs in performance, no longer playing everyday day, and/or injuries.

  30. C. Cheetah on June 15th, 2007 5:32 pm

    I kinda recall being with roughly 40,000+ others on the day that Gaylord Perry won his 300th here in Seattle….I wonder if Houston remembers….

  31. Anna11 on June 16th, 2007 1:26 am

    #146 — The quotes came from Larry Dobrow’s blog over on CBS Sportscenter. Sorry for being so late in responding — I’m 9 hours ahead of y’all.

    The info about Hargrove’s contract came from Baker’s blog. Here’s the quote. It’s from sometime in April (April 22?) “One note about Hargrove, based on a reader comment below: I actually did hear the other night, from an assistant in another team’s front office, that Hargrove had quietly been given an extension for 2008 behind the scenes. Such an extension, I’m told — and nothing has been confirmed to me — would not preclude him from being fired this year. In other words, the team would eat the money. Again, just to repeat, this is just the word going around. Do not treat it as gospel. The point of me bringing it up now, rather than before, is that even if true, it would not impact the tenuous state of Hargrove’s job security.”

    I found this in the PI, dated April 24. “OVER-EXTENDING? A Seattle Times blog mention of a rumor that Bavasi has quietly given a contract extension to Hargrove drew neither confirmation nor denial from several Mariners front office officials Monday, including Bavasi himself.

    “I have a long streak that I’m going to keep intact,” said Bavasi, who is traveling with the team. “I never talk about employee’s contracts.”

    The Mariners will only say that Hargrove initially signed a three-year contract and they have nothing new to report. Hargrove is in his third season in Seattle, having gone 69-93 and 78-84 before this year’s slow start.”

    So they won’t confirm or deny it. Sounds to me like they quietly gave him a contract extension.

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