Game 91, Orioles at Mariners
Dave · July 17, 2007 at 6:07 pm · Filed Under Mariners
Guthrie vs Hernandez, 7:05 pm.
The same line-up that couldn’t touch Horacio Ramirez last night now gets to deal with King Felix. This should be fun.
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Predictions?
7 IP, 2 Runs, 2BB, K, W
that’s supposed to be 8 K’s
LAA getting whooped by TB, go M’s!
I thought you were mocking HoRam
Dave, I got two questions:
1) There are practically no trade rumors this season. Is there anybody you think the Mariners have a shot at getting? Any chance that we could trade Balentien for a young pitcher of comparable talent? Even a little less talent might be okay right now.
2) If the Mariners do add a starter, who do we drop from the rotation? Despite the last month or so, I think Weaver and Horacio both suck and can’t be counted on for quality innings. Which one would you exile to the bullpen?
CG Shutout with 11Ks and 1BB.
I’m not informed like Dave, but:
1. I seriously doubt it. If you have a young pitcher who looks like he might be any use at all, you generally keep him. It’s the older guys who get flipped for prospects.
Cleveland and the Angels are both loosing lets gain some ground!
So just looking at Guthrie’s numbers, it appears he’s made a big step forward this year, significantly improving his BB/K, BABIP, and LOB% even as his FB% has risen. Other than a weakness for giving up HRs to LH batters (which is easy to do in Camden Yards), he’s a better pitcher this year than Burres, last night’s starter. He should like Safeco. Hopefully the Mariners (especially the lefties in tonight’s lineup) will like him even more.
Speaking of which: “Ichiro’s career batting average against the Orioles is .378 (94-for-249), his best mark against any team. Since 1957, no one with at least 150 plate appearances against Baltimore has been better.”
As long as Good Felix (aka mixup pitches) shows up, the O’s should be completely overmatched tonight.
Did all of y’all who hate adding a little bit of levity to your lives see the bit on the rally fries? Did it make you want to retreat to your darkened rooms and play with your sabermetric calculators?
I, for one, believe in the power of the fries.
What are Cleveland and the Angels letting go of, exactly?
Oh never mind.
Huzzah for Tampa Bay and go us!
CG Shutout with 11Ks and 1BB.
That would be awesome, and as a fan I’d love to see it. But from a “pacing things for the season” pov I’d rather see him get a ton of first-pitch ground outs, and hardly any Ks, so he can get a stress-free CG shutout in like 85 pitches. Oh, and a hit and a walk in the first couple of innings so nobody is whispering about “No-No” and other unmentionables.
Cleveland and the Angels are both loosing lets gain some ground!
I kind of hope they stop loosing and tighten up, even as they continue losing.
Yeah I know. Trading prospect for prospect is generally kind of frowned on. Still, I’d deal Clement or Balentien for a reasonably good young pitcher in a second.
Uh, some of us enjoy inanity of rally fries (and dancing moose and hydro races and sausage races and sinking ships and guys sliding into giant beer steins beyond the outfield fence) even as we sit in our darkened rooms playing with our sabermetric calculators, thank you very much. I am large; I contain multitudes.
Anyways, any opinions on my other question? It doesn’t need to be Dave. Anyone can answer. If the Mariners added another starter, who do you take out of the rotation? Weaver or Ramirez? I think I’d say Ramirez, but it’s a very close call.
Ya know I did the google spell check on that to but to bad it doesn’t check grammer.
This is the kind of night and against the kind of lineup when Felix needs to practice what Jim Palmer use to call “the batting practice curve.” Late in a game with a good lead against weak hitters, Palmer would throw the guys with no power a batting practice curve; they could not lay off it, they could not hit it out, and he would save his arm while recording a lot of flyball outs on very few pitches. I bet Palmer is sick looking at an Oriole lineup that without Mora and Tejada is pretty much made for the batting practice curve.
Ya know I did the google spell check on that to but to bad it doesn’t check grammer.
And “loosing” didn’t get flagged? Time to try a new spell-check, because that’s not a word in any context. Neither is “grammer.”
OK, I take that back. Apparently “loosing” is a word in some weird context. My bad.
A bunch of teams would be willing to offer more than Clement or Balentien. Pitching is in short supply: you’d have to give up more than that. As Bavasi said on the after-game interview the other day: there’s only a handful of pitchers available, and none of them are difference-makers. Unless somebody better than the names mentioned so far becomes available, I’d rather see them keep their powder dry. Which is worse: falling short of the division wild card by not dealing one of the great prospects in Tacoma, or dealing one or more of the great prospects and still falling short because the guy you got made no difference?
Of course, Bavasi also said in the same Q&A that they’d only bring Jones up when it’s good for the Mariners, not just because it’s good for him, and since it’s pretty evident it would be good for the M’s to have him fielding even if he couldn’t hit worth a lick, I don’t know what to think.
7 IP, 6 K’s, 2 Walks, 7 Hits (no more than one for xb), Win 4-2.
Loosing is definitely a word. You can loose something from its moorings or from any number of other things.
Grammer, though, isn’t anything except Frasier and his family.
If you let loose the dogs of war, your loosing them upon your enemies. Etc.
Angels LOSE!
Ohhh joser, for shame.
#23 Strike TWO!
At least we know where the other o in “too” went.
Two players, age 31 to 36 SLG
A) .421 .518 .462 .535 .423 .350
B) .454 .472 .436 .516 .413 TBD
A is Bret Boone. B is Raul Ibanez.
Ooops, I can’t believe I wrote “your” when I meant to write “you’re”
:shame:
I think I need to take a spelling and grammar course at my local Community College.
Joser has already quoted Shakespeare and Whitman and we are only on 26 in the thread. Damn, that’s impressive.
They are showing the standings. The Twins have been hot.
I think the M’s have to catch the Angels to make the post season. I think that is more likely than beating two of Detroit/Cleveland/Minnesota for the wild card.
I have no statistics to back that up, that’s just a feeling due to a belief that those 3 central clubs are good.
20 As in “Cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war,” or the phrase “on the loose” – to be “on the loose” is to have experienced “loosing” at some point.
But students of Greek will all know about “to loose” from having to learn the single completely regular Greek verb “luo”.
Does anyone know if Woods was really DFA’d? I can’t seem to see anything official about it although it does it appear to have been reported in a couple spots.
35, the announcement said he was DFA’d but the one I read said that one option was to send him to the minors. The only thing I could figure was that for some reason they didn’t want to send him down right away, and this gave them 10 days to decide or to clear a spot in Tacoma?
24 34 Guess I was a little slow on the draw
35 extra it in there should just be “it does appear”
36 I read something saying they had to convince him to go back, I wonder if he’s pulling a Weaver and refuses to go back down. You could be right too though, maybe they just have some strange roster moves planned that don’t accommodate him going down right away.
The Yankees just tied the Blue Jays in the 9th on a balk .
Woooooooooooooo Felix with a SLIDER
2nd Pitch not a fastball = out. Let us all celebrate!
hey get these guys out.
Dave, Felix seems to be getting hit fairly hard, at least to me. I can’t really tell (I have the sound turned off), but is he throwing all fastballs again?
His velocity is down?
Bad Felix so far. God, first innings suck.
Well, something must be wrong with the gun for FSN, it seems to be 5 mph slower than Gameday.
Double play, WOOT!!! Got outta that jam.
Does Felix always need to make this difficult? 4 4-seamers, 4 balls.
Looks like bad Felix is out there tonight.
Whew, pitcher’s best friend!
4-6-3… right on!
Well that was a wonderful little bailout. Time for some rally fries.
Beautiful.
Well that was a well timed double play.
The two hits were both fastballs up in the zone.
Thank god for the GIDP
what did he throw to get the DP grounder?
The nice thing about Felix is that even when he works himself into trouble, he’s often just a double play from getting out of it.
Bad Felix? Those hits found gaps and he got 2 GB that turned into 3 outs. Looked like Decent Felix to me.
Mmmm…Baconator….
Slider?
Is this kid related to Mark Guthrie?
Yeah the DP was the slider.
And even with the trouble, he still only threw thirteen pitches.
When was the last time Felix had a 1,2,3 inning?
Anybody know anything about the Orioles’ pitcher? Other than that he’s from Oregon, that is.
Make him work ichiro! way to go.
5 batters faced, 13 pitches?! insane…
Good job Ichi, eating up 10 pitches early on, hahaha.
guthries already thrown 9.. felix… 13
odd
58-
Allowing a miserable O’s team 2 hits by a pitcher that should be dominating them is bad felix. Then going down 3-0 to the #3 hitter is bat felix.
FSN pitch speed graphic thinks this Rob Bell pitching.
Way to make the pitcher work Ichiro
That slider to Huff was one of the worst pitches Felix has thrown this year. I’ll take the GIDP, though.
TUUUUUUURRRRRRBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
Ugh. Add one more day to AJ coming up.
Oh, come on, Turbo, take third!
Mark Guthrie this year:
K/9 6.39
BB/9 1.79
G/F 1.22
FIP 3.82
Not a bad little pitcher. He’s not a groundball machine, but he keeps the walks down and has a decent K rate.
MYYYYYYYY TTTTTTUUUUUUURRRRRBBBBBOOOOOOOO LOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEERRRRR
More like infield-saved-his-ass Felix.
77..
Its Jeremy
#65– Jim Palmer said Guthrie was the best-conditioned player on the team, that he went to Stanford, took 2 years off for his mission (to Spain), and he then talked about what he threw, but I was merging onto the freeway …
65 – Guthrie was a Mormon missionary for a couple years, and has been a pleasant surprise.
What makes you say that Hooligan? I didn’t see it. Did he hang it, and Huff just screwed up?
Bad Felix is 9 FB out of 10 pitches and giving up 2 runs early.
13 Pitches, minus the 4 straight balls, so 9 pitches that were mixed and getting a DP can’t be Bad Felix.
take a cut!
There are practically no trade rumors this season…
I read an article on ESPN (yeah, yeah, I was bored) that pointed out
- pardon me for a momment, whoo hooo Turbo! -
Okay, where was I? Oh, yeah, ESPN article that claimed owners have figured out the same thing Dave talked about a few weeks ago – letting a FA walk isn’t terrible because the compensation picks are pretty much a wash with the prospects typically traded for the rent-a-player. Ergo, not much desire to trade guys cheap.
Let’s go Guillen…
Vidro doubles, M’s chance of making the playoffs goes down .1%.
True story: if he hits for the cycle, we are mathematically eliminated.
Nice Priest ref
See, if Vidro was a real DH with some power that would have been a home run.
80: Crossed up my names. Those stats are for Jeremy Guthrie. I just brain-farted. Thanks.
Sad to say, but I feel much more optimistic with Turbo up to the plate over Ibanez.
Well, if we got anything with that inning, we got guthrie to throw alot of pitches.
86: Then someone will wake up to the fact that the market is inefficient, and they’ll realize that they can pay more talent for a player and recoup part of it in draft picks.
90… what are the stats for Arlo Guthrie? I hear he has this wicked change-up.
so, a mature righty they have never seen before, who seems to be pitching well the last month or so …
Re:65
My info on Guthrie is that he lives with a transvestite midget named Dave, whom he calls ‘momma’. He’s not very good, he’s 28, and we should light him up. Assuming we hit at all tonight.
90. I do that quite alot, no harm done.
There are still rumors about the Ms going after Willis… what a bad idea…
Ichiro got Guthrie to throw a lot of strikes. The other four guys? Not so much.
I smell K number 1!
Felix is shaking his head after that one. I don’t blame him. You jam a guy that bad, you expect to get him out.
wow… right at em
Nice reflexes.
another DP would be nice right here.
pre-game Sims kept saying John Gibbons was batting 7th, and I kept visualising the vaguely-worried-looking Jays’ manager in the on-deck circle
Wow, a baseball player passing up a chance at money to do a Mormon mission. I have to admire people who really live their beliefs.
Colm-
His off-speed stuff has looked better. And that slider to Huff was up, in, and flat to a lefty with power.
What Delilah has removed all of Felix’s hair?!
Theres my DP!!!
Nicely done.
God damn Kenji is good.
Is it my paranoid imagination, or is Felix’ velocity down, and is he nibbling a lot? Strike-em-out-throw-em-out DP! Never mind….
That’s the kind of DP I like to see.
Y’know, putting on the hit and run with a pitcher whose K rate is as high as Felix’s is not a winning proposition.
Nobody’s hitting it hard, but his command doesn’t look good. I think Felix is gonna do okay, but this kinda shit wouldn’t fly against the Angels.
How sweet that is!
I love the hit-and-run when I’m not rooting for the team that’s doing it. What a waste.
98- Yeah, Willis and Morris.
Whee.
And as I type Dave is talking up Willis.
Whee.
Oh, let’s not forget a right handed set-up man… that is our number one, absolutely critical, essential, desperate, vital, crucial need.
Strike em out throw em out woohoo!
I wouldn’t mind Willis if the price is right, but we all know his price is going to be for what he was 2 years ago. Not what he is now.
116.
Plus…it’s important.
Who taught Sexson how to take a walk?
#106– speaking of which, what happened to Jon Nelson?
Sexson walks a lot. He always has.
D-Train this year:
K/9: 6.1
BB/9: 4.0
G/F: 1.64
FIP: 5.00
Guthrie’s a much better pitcher, and was available for free off the waiver wire this winter. Why would we want Dontrelle Willis, again?
His curve looked great. He’s still refusing to throw the change. The slider is either flat or wasted outside, and he’s going to it alot.
More two-seamer and change, Felix. But thank you for somewhat mixing your pitches.
122 – and he has always struck out a lot. He always has.
Where’s a good place to find FIP?
126: http://www.fangraphs.com
Well duh, 125.
Nice results-based analysis, Blowers.
Wow, nice play by the King.
Felix the Cat
Nice job, Felix. Way to get the lead runner.
131: Nice.
hah!
The rare pitch out curve ball.
Johjima is on it, tonight! 2 gunned down already.
It’s not often that a team guesses correctly on the pitchout. They smoked him that time.
WOW…..3 double play type plays now?
Wow, the best 1-2 defense sequence I’ve seen from the team this year.
That is one of the stupider bunt ideas I’ve seen lately. What was he thinking? And … to get thrown out on a SB attempt … deserved that.
All right Kenji!
And Baltimore is desperate. Let’s keep them that way.
The Orioles are putting on a clinic on how to give away free outs.
#135 HAHAHAHA. That’s what I was thinking.
Do the Orioles believe they can repeat what the Tigers did against Weaver & Burke against Felix & Johjima today?
I hope so, 144.
Hm, Richie is hitting 203/300/405. That’s not as awful as I had in mind.
That is, he does walk a lot.
That was a great throw. Wow. Love to see that.
What a horrible throw.
It’s a thing of beauty the way Ichiro can mess with a pitcher’s mind.
TURBO!
Orioles are like a bunch of retards out there.
Richie is 1st with 49 BB. Ichiro is a close second at 40, Vidro a distant third at 27.
…woo! 1-0!
It was the catcher that threw the ball away, not the pitcher.
The O’s outfielder playing the classic game of “where’d the ball go?”
Arrgh. Talk about bitter sweet.
I’ll take it though. Now, pull your hammy, Turbo.
I hope Adam Jones hasn’t started packing for Seattle yet – I think he’s going to be in Tacoma for awhile yet (barring injury to someone).
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY TURRRRRRRRRRRRBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!
Come on Angry Guillen!
Argh, wrong column. 37 32 31.
3 run dinger? This has the possibility written all over it.
In other news the Tribe have tied it up in bottom of the 9th against B. Jenks.
Two Doubles in a game, and Vidro still can’t get himself hurt… Man, too much to ask for.
Walking Ibanez to get to Guillen does not seem to be the brightest idea.
Then again, maybe the Orioles sent him flowers this morning. Y’know, to take the mean edge off.
Did Turbo just hit 2 line drives in a row. Nobody wake me up please.
Still hating JeffS.
I wish they’d show us Ichiro in the dugout more often. Maybe we could tell whether he’s actually speaking English to people in there.
Hey, Jose: The Orioles told me this morning that your momma wears combat boots. And she dresses you funny.
Or not.
It’s pretty bad when you know Ichiro is going to steal and you still eff it up.
157 – Not if he continues to hitting like he has been, he’s 4 for 4 with a double and 3 RBI’s tonight so far…
Through three innings:
18 Fastballs (4 or 5 of which were likely 2-seamers)
8 Sliders
5 Curves
0 Change-ups
2 Unknown
Good mix. Throw the change, and throw more two-seamers. The slider isn’t looking good tonight, so why waste your arm when your sinker has more vertical movement with higher velocity?
I think Felix throws what feels good in his hands instead of what is working on a given night. Both times he’s shaken off Joh he’s gone with the 4-seamer instead, and the slider is flatter and wilder than usual.
Complaining when Vidro (or Bloomquist) gets an important hit is stupid.
Lauren, what’s wrong? It’s the Turbo support, isn’t it?
166 – According to Fernando Vina and other sources, Ichiro speaks Spanish rather well, and according to a recent Ryan Franklin interview Ichiro speaks English in the club house rather well.
147
Yeah Richie’s always been a big walker and sure he strikes out, but honestly, from a guy with Richie’s speed, I prefer strike outs to ground balls. If Richie made better contact, he’d be a GIDP machine. Of course, the way Richie’s played so far this year is totally unacceptable. I know he’s a slow starter, but this is getting ridiculous. If Sexson’s gonna make a move towards the .264/.355/.522 line he’s given us over the last two years, he needs to get started.
Arrgh, here we go again….
172: Who in this entry are you calling stupid?
Lauren has a boooooooooooooooyfriend… Lauren has a booooooooooooooyfriend…
I’ve heard that about Ichiro’s facility with languages. I’ve always assumed he’s doing the Cho En-lai act: pretend you don’t know English and insist on an interpreter, then use the time the interpreter’s translating to figure out what you’re going to say. It’s a pretty good strategy, actually. All the accounts that I’ve read indicate he’s a very smart guy.
How Doyle is doing in Oakland?
Just a thought.
180 – He hurt his other knee and has been out for awhile.
166 – I don’t see why. If everyone would just post like #158, this place would be almost as awesome as the MLB official message boards.
172 – Really? I’d never thought about it that way. I wish we had 8 Vidros and 4 Bloomquists so I could be happy that much more often.
I think I really like Jose Guillen. My image of him was that hothead that got in a public fight with the Angels’ manager and has been on 11 different teams in his 10-year career. It’s hilarious to see him smiling and laughing and apparently really loving being a Mariner.
I didn’t call any person stupid. I called comments that tow the “Vidro sucks, bench him so we can get Jones up” line, even has he makes occasional plays that benefit the team, stupid.
182, if you can’t appreciate the Priest reference then I feel sorry for you.
3 straight innings the leadoff runner has gotten on base for Baltimore…
I don’t want to jinx him, but Felix is settling in really nicely right now.
#186–that was the point of my “here we go again” comment.
Can someone please tell me what pitch he threw to freeze Millar and Huff?
179 – They were talking on Baseball Tonight about how Bobby V. swears Ichiro can do 4 digit multiplications in his head rather quickly and I think it was Kurkjian who was trying to tie that to the reason Ichiro was so good and was also the reason why Ichiro runs routes to balls so well…I thought it was interesting….
177 – Apparently everyone who thinks Vidro’s .297 BA is a complete smoke screen.
185 – 1. The reference doesn’t overcome the presentation. 2. How many times are you going to find the reference funny? And explain it again, so we can all appreciate it.
Dan, don’t waste your time. I spent the entire game thread two days ago saying the same exact thing. The elitists on this board want Vidro to fail, even if it results in the team doing the same.
He looked pretty good that inning. It really seems like he’s giving up a lot of bloop hits lately. I guess that’s not really his fault, but it’s really irritating.
Flashy throw by Lopez there, yikes.
191-
batting average is among the least valuable ways to determine a hitter’s worth, even worse to determine a DH’s worth.
I grew up watching the great Baltimore teams of the 60′s-70′s, with Jim Palmer, the Robinsons, Mike Cuellar, Dave McNally et al. They had 4 20-game winners in 1970 (Cuellar, Palmer, McNally and Pat Dobson), which I’m quite sure will never happen again, ever. It’s depressing to see what Peter Angelos has done to this franchise.
196 – Yeah, no kidding, hence the post…..
I fear that we’ve overhyped Jones so much that when he does get the call it’s going to be Jeremy Reed all over again.
AJ and Wlad are both very different types of hitters than Reed.
SUGOI IPPATSU!
199 (DizzleChizzle) – I don’t remember anyone being this excited about the potential of..
FUNK BLAST!!
..Jeremy Reed.
Kenji is MVP!
Wow, Johjima’s having some game, isn’t he?
Funk Blast
FUNK BLAST, BABY!!!!!
That pitch was supposed to be outside. Hanging a curve inside to Joh = poor strategy.
They’re different, but they have been pretty heavily hyped. Well, Jones has. There’s probably gonna be a lot of pressure on him when he does get up here.
Yes, the Baltimore teams were impressive. Aside from the ones you mentioned, they had Paul Blair in center (amazing defensively), Belanger at ss (also dazzling) and Boog Powell at first.
I know that they are different types of hitters, I’m referring to the specific situation. We had big expectations of Reed and he didn’t deliver. I’m just saying that I fear the same thing could happen with Jones.
199 – I don’t recall Jeremy Reed ever performing like AJ is.
193 – Elitists? Hilarious. Because we want a AAA player on the team, we’re elitists?
I mean, what do you think our point is? You think Vidro got our sister pregnant or something?
Do you seriously think any of us aren’t 100% wanting what’s best for the team? Jesus.
Jones and Wlad also have much different track records than Reed. Reed never hit for much power in the minors. Jones and Wlad have both put up monster power seasons this year.
Bluntly: They’re both better hitters, and should show that when they reach the majors.
211, you just don’t get it. I’m not even going to waste my time on you
#209–yes, I remember those guys too. I loved watching that team play defense, especially. The left side of the infield, with Brooks Robinson and Belanger, has to be considered one of the best ever. It was actually noting the O’s 2 errors tonight that got me thinking of the past teams.
211 (John in L.A.) – Can I be an elitist? I have fulfilled my hate for Vidro portion of the prerequisites.
202
Jeremy Reed wasn’t hyped as much as Jones, but cmon, you can’t tell me that Reed wasn’t overhyped just a little bit. I think I even read or heard people comparing him to Edmonds.
Reed had a couple unbelievably good years in the minors. His best year was in Double A. I don’t think he ever played quite Adam’s level in Triple A, but he wasn’t far off. That’s not to say I don’t love Adam and think he’ll be way better. I just think that Dizzle has a point and if it makes you feel any better, Diz, I’m nervous too.
We had big expectations of Reed and he didn’t deliver.
But Reed never had any power. It looked to me like he was going to hit for average, and if he was a good fielder that would have been enough to stay. But somehow he turned into a 4th outfielder.
But I wouldn’t say there were big expectations of Reed. There was a hope that he could fill a hole that the team had.
213- Will you waste your time on everyone else in the blog who knows Jones makes the Mariners better then Vidro does?
Felix isn’t quite in the groove. 19 pitches last inning, falling behind early. But nasty enough stuff to get the K’s anyway.
199 and 210- What are you suppose to do with top Prospects…believe they suck? Also, I don’t remember anyone over-hyping Jeremy Reed, he was a 4-tool player that who was a gamble to be when the M’s aquired him from Chicago cause he showed flashes but wasn’t producting like he did in AA in AAA for the White Sox when he was traded. At least I remember being seriously skeptical on the guy.
I don’t disagree that Vidro is not a good DH. But a .352 OBP (third highest among regulars on the team) is at times helpful on a team full of hackers. Is that not the case? And when he does help the team with an important hit, it’s just kind of silly to state that it was a bad thing, as it might delay Jones’s call.
211 – I honestly couldn’t have put it better myself…. However, I think I’d probably like him more if he did get my sister pregnant. Dude is pretty low on the totem pole of respectable players.
I am not hating on him for striking the ball well, however, we should be expecting much more from our DH than a sparkling average, which has been beaten to death about 600,000,000,000,000 times on this board.
219, of course Jones would be a better player today than Vidro. It’s not about that. It’s about supporting Vidro while he’s in the lineup. If he’s out there it’s our duty as fans to wish him well.
Well, let’s do a community projection on Adam Jones, then, so we know whether he’s going to satisfy our projections, much like we did in the offseason with a bunch of guys.
I think if the M’s bring him up, he’s going to hit .250/.320/.420. With the defense he’ll provide? I’ll be more than happy with that.
Ichiro’s dad caught a foul ball. Cool.
221, Reed was in the minors when he was traded. He got his first major league at bat with the Mariners. And just because Adam and Wlad have power, that doesn’t make them more certain. I think they’ll be great, but nothing is for sure yet.
I only cheer Vidro on if I am actually at the park. I still get pissed off every time I see him walk up to the plate though.
224 (JeffS) – I have signed nothing, nor have I read any rules, that state what my duties as a fan are.
That said, I’ll name my own rule, for myself. Demand this team do what’s right to win as many games possible. And that is calling up Adam Jones and benching Vidro.
Those Oriole teams really were the model of a successful team: strong (incredibly strong) defense up the middle, power at the corners (Brooks, Boog, and Frank) who could also play defense (in Brooks case incredible defense), strong starting pitching, and a manager, Earl Weaver, who was indifferent to conventional wisdom and was doing a kind of statistical analysis about things like sacrifice bunts long before anyone else.
And now they have Angelos. It is almost tragic, except a buffoon like Angelos cannot be tragic.
Hey, half the time I see Willie Bloomquist come to the plate I yell at the TV, “You suck, Bloomquist.” Then he gets a hit to spite me. Like I’m going to stop that?
225- I say .260/.322/.410 Safeco isn’t a home run bounce house.
Does it look like Ichiro has lost a little speed? Aren’t those the grounders he used to beat out?
224- My fault I thought it was about rooting for the best results for the team, Vidro doesn’t make our best results possible. If we had no other options then we wouldn’t bag on Vidro so bad. But improvement is a simple phone call away and its getting ridiculous for them to run out this lineup every night.
Damn you White Sox…
Pitch 5 to Hernandez….someone who is watching…BRK 11 PFX 7 85 MPH….slider?
223 (wrmike) – Well, the guy got hit near the knee by a 96 mph fastball two days ago. Cut him some slack.
221
I know Reed has never produced stats like Jones in the minors, but his short call up in 04 was all a lot of fans needed to see and as a result, the Jeremy Reed bandwagon was created, which I’m proud to say I was never a member of. He was suppose to be our answer to our problems in CF and I think it was just too much pressure for him.
Back to my Adam Jones update…
5 for 5
1 Double
1 Triple
1 Run scored
3 RBI’s 1 of them with 2 outs
234, I agree with you 100%. It is frustrating that Jones is sitting in AAA, but it’s the hand we are dealt. Just because my son isn’t what is best for his little league team doesn’t mean I don’t root for him with all that I have
236 – high slider, according to Jim Palmer.
It must feel so good to face a team like the Oreo’s when you obviously don’t have your best stuff … and get to shut them out with your B game.
240- We are not Vidro’s dad and this is not little league. I coach little league and I don’t remember anyone paying 40 bucks to see them. If they did I would throw out my best 9 everyday.
Was that where Felix was aiming? I’ll take the strikeout, but that at-bat did not look easy for him.
Woot, good job, Felix!!!
If Vidro hits a 3B tonight I’ll get off the Adam Jones bandwagon.
It’s getting to the point where I’m not even worried anymore when Felix has runners on base EVERY inning. Everything is under control.
Ok, now he’s just screwing with my head on purpose.
He can’t be stopped!
243, OK, well then take a poll of those that are paying $40 tonight. If the majority says Vidro must go I would be shocked. The bottom line is that it is up to management and they always drag their feet on decisions like these. So I will continue to root for Vidro until management grows a pair and calls up Jones to replace him.
Right now I would really rather have Jones taking over for Raul.
MMMMMMYYYYYYYY TTTUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRBBBBBBOOOOOOO LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVEEEEERRRR!!!
Nice to see the M’s showcase some discipline.
240 (JeffS) – That was the absolute worst argument I have seen in months. You should really read your posts back to your wife, dad, someone, anyone, before you post them.
243 – I couldn’t have put it any better. I think it’s best we let him sit in his ignorant misery at this point, though. I still can’t believe how bad of a supporting argument for his case that was…
Tonight’s Sabermetric Anti-Hero of the Game…
JOSE VIDRO!
OK, that’s it. Time to sit Raul and get Jones in here. Turbo isn’t our biggest problem right now.
Adam Jones tonight = 5 for 5 with double & triple and 3 RBI… No over-hyping going on here.
We have Vidro and Jones both hitting well.
I’ll consider it a happy dilemma.
251
I was going to the same thing that Ibanez is really campaigning for Jones as well.
Geez. Can Felix avoid yet another leadoff hit from scoring? The luck has to be running dry.
Um yeah .. some rally those fries inspired. As for the whole ordeal about the rally fries … I’m trying to be generous and see the good in the act but … man, I just rue this kind of gimmick (and, yes, I rue the hydroplanes, music trivia, follow the ball under the caps, etc.). I guess that’s curse of having attended baseball games in the 60′s, prior to this manufactured nonsense required to sustain the interest of attention-deficit folk these days.
All right, Felix, the fun of this “man on base” thing is wearing off. How about a 1-2-3 inning here eventually?
Carson = the most negative thinker on the blog. Cheer up and enjoy the game
Now we’re bashing on giving little kids some free french fries? God forbid they ever have Vidro picking out who gets the free fries, this place would implode.
Wow, we’re elitists now because we want Jones in the lineup. I thought we were fans who want nothing more than a pennant, but I guess I was wrong.
216:
Jeremy Reed forgot how to walk once he got to the bigs. He replaced his walks with K’s, in fact, at a rate that doesn’t add up even considering the jump in pitching talent he faced. A complete loss of a skill is pretty difficult to predict, and certainly not something to expect from Jones.
#264
Gotta admit that was funny.
When are the three remaining make up games being played?? Those 2 against Cleveland will be huge.
Oh crap
How hard is it for you guys to google “Jeremy Reed” on USSM? It took me about 8 seconds to find this:
http://ussmariner.com/index.php?p=2287
If you want to put forth an argument for why Adam Jones belongs in Tacoma, go for it. I’m going to suggest avoiding making things up about those of us who support the move, though, in an attempt to somehow denigrate our analysis.
The amount of things we get accused of believing that are demonstrably not true is pretty shockingly high.
254 – regarding your arguments – since you are advocating putting Jones in the OF, benching Vidro, and DHing Ibanez, what is your argument that Ibanez should be playing over Vidro? Is it the evidence that Ibanez will hit better at DH than when playing LF ? I can’t find that data. Is it Raul’s OBP? His SLG? His.. somebody shoot me… batting average?
Err, #247 was wrong.
*sad face*
Ohhhhhhhh shiiiiiiiiiiii
that was not good. Could we get a few more left handed batters for ms. got beer?
This is the first inning where Felix has really looked bad. The double to Markakis was actually hit hard, the walk to Huff was bad, and then he fell behind Gibbons. I thought Gibbons was bad enough it might not better, but that was ugly.
damn
Dan W is my new favorite poster
JeffS – Now you see why I was so “negative.” I stated a fact, and the fact just became a one run deficit.
I love Felix, and want him to do amazingly well. When you give up a leadoff single every inning, the odds of it biting you increase. What was so negative about me stating a plain fact?
#270
Having followed this blog for several years I gotta admit you are right way more than you are wrong.
Carson — you cursed him. Congrats.
#275: Heh. Another fan stalker outs himself.
Me too. She’s pretty cute.
What is with the strike zone tonight?
Isn’t Richie due for a dinger?
Why throw three straight sliders when the pitch isn’t working? Gibbons guessed what was coming on pitch three, and guessed right.
MORE RALLY FRIES PLEASE!
284 – No.
So much for Felix having an easy time with the O’s. Someone remind him this game is 9 innings.
They are making Guthrie look like Tommy John.
33. (who thinks wild card will come from Central–Detroit, Cleveland, Minnesota.
Don’t forget, they get to beat each other up, too.
For all of the Adams Jones fans — I assume he would take Jason Ellison’s roster spot. Does he have options remaining if the M’s sent him to the minors. And — can anyone make the case for keeping Ellison over Jones.
He likes to fight?
#291
Trying to fight Joe Blanton has to count for something.
I think the kids call it ‘throw down’.
#291
I read that Ellison will stay and the M’s will send down someone from their bullpen.
270
Hey Dave relax man. I’m not against the Jones call up and I’m not saying that Reed’s stats are comparable to Jones. I’m just saying that Reed was overhyped IMO. I’m not claiming anybody here who supports Jones getting the call up also supported Reed back in 05. Although I’m sure all of the intelligent M’s fans here at USSMariner did not overhype Reed, this is not the only haven to discuss or talk about the M’s.
I guess all I’m saying is that Jones has proven nothing in the big leagues yet, therefore everything he does down in Tacoma is all hype and because he should’ve been in Seattle a long time ago now he’s getting overhyped. Right now at this very moment does he deserve to be an everyday player in Seattle? Absolutely!!!!!! I want nothing more than for Adam Jones to prove he’s not all hype.
270- Ok you are smarter than all the rest of us. You are smarter than Bavasi. I respectably have to say that you are able to precict the future, let’s take my bank roll to Emerald Downs, or Vegas and dominate. The Sean Green thing last night was freaky…you are the man…but how does Felix give up three in one inning to these losers?
Ryan Howard is a manimal.
I had Felix at:
50 Fastballs
24 Sliders
16 Curves
6 Change-ups
3 Unknown
Anyone else have numbers? It’s hard to differentiate his slider from the 2-seamer when a pitch comes in high at 90, and it’s hard to differentiate the slider from the change when it’s high at 86.
I don’t know why he relies on his slider on nights it isn’t effective. Gibbons made him pay, but he should have learned that it wasn’t working an hour earlier.
Hey, maybe Ramirez pitched OK last night after all.
291: Rather have a developing player play every day in Tacoma, than once every five days in Seattle. It would suck to put Jones in Ellison’s role.
This is getting depressing … I was all set for a (I know it’s not really a) Vulture Win by O’Flaherty, but … things are NOT going according to (our) plan.
#297
In my opinion Dave is way ahead of his time and that kind of genius is not always appreciated in its time but if Dave’s genius is ever appreciated he will be working in MLB in my opinion.
Hey, maybe Ramirez pitched OK last night after all.
Jay Gibbons hits a hanging slider and Horacio Ramirez’s .186 BABIP was suddenly skill?
There are days when you guys make me want to just turn the comments off.
Dave-
Any idea why Felix’s BABIP is way over the league average? Before tonight’s game it was right around .350 and couldn’t have gotten much better. Is this something to be worried about or is it a “wait for the regression” type thing?
297 I have this feeling that Dave was in the process of typing a response for me but after reading your comment he’s hitting the delete button to work on a response for you.
A player gets replaced when the manager thinks there is some one better out there. A player should get called up when he proves that he is ready for the majors. Put those two together and we shall see what kind of manager MacLaren is. Will he use young players to see what they can do or willl he stay with older marginal players hoping they can keep it going? Does the FO get involved in this? Maybe Bavasi is blocking the Adam Jones move, but they sure staff the bullpen with youngsters.
Lets all remember its the Oreo’s bullpen, possibly the worst in the majors.
O’Flaherty must be hung over.
How can you NOT run on Raul?
He has a decent arm.
Hey all–chill. Too many gotcha’s going on.
I would like to see Sean Green in this situation if he is available.
Ah Dave, don’t turn the comments off. You can put up with us. We’re half the fun.
Would all those who insist on pimping Horacio’s skills please take GM jobs, preferably with AL West teams not named ‘Mariners’? Even Bavasi would jump at the chance to trade his Ramirez-caliber talent for your Felix-caliber talent.
Friends don’t let friends use results-based analysis.
More FanGraphs fun. Last night, at the top of the 9th inning, the Mariner’s win expectancy – with Putz on and a 2 run lead – was 92%. At this moment – Oreo’s ahead by 3 in the top of the 7th, 1 down, bases loaded – the Oreo’s win expectancy is 93%. Which situation (in terms of being behind and hoping to win) would you rather be in?
Yeah, Dave, love us.
Where was the head first dive Ichiro!?!?!?
Ichiro?
Argh, this means we are going to have to take down Bedard tomorrow.
Eric Byrnes, Grady Sizemore, and Andruw Jones catch that. And no one loves Ichi more than me.
Ichiro doesn’t dive. I understand why he doesn’t and all, but every now and then, it’s really frustrating.
320… we’ll hoist him on his own Bedard!
Well, I think they should have left Felix in. I doubt he’d given up this many runs.
Thanks, EDS, for bringing things back into the Fun Puns Arena from Wild Accusations and Arrogance Field.
It’s hard being a blogger sometimes.
Hindsight being 20/20 and all, would you guys have let Felix start the 7th? Or just gone to Sean Green instead instead of Rowland-Smith, maybe even a batter earlier?
How frustrating is this that they can’t take advantage of this bad team, especially when Angels have already lost to the Rays today?
I fail to see why Dave should love making the same arguments (or witnessing the same arguments) that have been clumsily made here time after time after time.
100% of the M’s games played today went downhill after irritating posts by a crop of Mariners jingoists. Correlation clearly equals causation.
Maybe we need another set of Rally Fries.
Or a closeup of the girl who delivers said fries.
I blame the broadcasters for handing out rally fries when we were winning.
329: Amen, Lauren. Preach to us, sister.
I suggest reading “Veeck, as in wreck”
Felix didn’t look real good his last inning out there and he’d thrown 99 pitches. No reason to overuse him when he’s already struggling. I think pulling him was probably a smart call and I think O’Flaherty was the right guy to bring in with Roberts, Patterson, and Markakis coming up. After him, I might’ve gone to Green, but Rowland didn’t really pitch too bad. He gave up two hits, one of which was an incredible bloop. I think MacLaren did fine. It just didn’t work out this time.
Lauren, you have no clue what you are talking about.
Ha, Ha! Silly Oreos. You’ve got to do something more than throw a lefty out there to stop Ichiro!
I hope those rally fries came with catch-up!
*ducking*
334,
But was Rowland-Smith pitching that well particularly likely? It was a RHer that he faced first. Green has the best non-Putz chance to get out of that inning on the team, right? So why not call on him?
I agree it wasn’t really that bad, but I’m a little confused by it. If it’s an overworking issue, I understand, but I’m nervous. What if McLaren has just decided Green is only for the 8th inning after all? Maybe I’m just pissed at the result, but it’s not sitting that well with me right now.
Some stinky Walla Walla onions tonight. Who thinks Mac is an improvement over Hargrove? I mean I don’t see any difference, in fact all I have seen is deer in the head lights. Anyone agree?
“The same line-up that couldn’t touch Horacio Ramirez last night now gets to deal with King Felix. This should be fun.”
It has been fun…if you’re from Baltimore. Can Adam Jones pitch? Can some Mariner come into this game and actually string together some outs rather than Oriole runs? Depending on what Washburn does tomorrow, Felix should slip to the 3-hole in the rotation behind Batista and Washburn. Now Ho-Ram is breathing down Felix’s back to move up in the rotation. Okay, I gotta relax, it just one game…but I liked last nights alot better.
335: Please point us to the extensive research you have performed to objectively prove that Lauren does not know what she is talking about. This would be the same type of research that Dave has pointed to over and over again to prove you wrong. If you have not done such research, I submit your assertion can be safely ignored.
335, learn to take a joke.
341, if you can point to a post that shows I think Vidro is better than AJ then be my guest. Lauren is simply trying to be a critic, just like everyone else on this blog. Whatever happened to being a fan and enjoying the game? And if Dave can make an well researched post as to why I should not cheer for Vidro then maybe I’ll change my mind
Green has pitched 4 of the last 5 games…
340 LOL, normally I wouldn’t laugh at a comment like that but because you posted that on USSMariner it’s hilarious.
OK. Ibanez has got to go. Over the last few days I’ve seen a number of posters provide stats showing how poorly Vidro is hitting. However, right along side the Vidro stats are more stats showing that Ibanez has been sucking just as badly. I’m fed up with his lack of production offensively and have been convinced all season that Adam Jones is a better option defensively. It’s an easy swap. Adam Jones in left. Ibanez to the bench. Let him DH against rightys because he’s got more power than Vidro. Let Vidro DH against leftys.
Yeah, bringing in Green probably would’ve been a smarter move. If MacLaren was saving him for the eighth inning then it was a bad move. That was the key situation. Saving our top set up guy for the eighth is certainly not required.
Now might not be a bad time to pull the plug on this thread. A lot of us are starting to get out of hand. Finger pointing, name calling, etc.
This is turning into a frustrating loss against a poor team, but come on. People looking to get a rise out of others are being fed like kings tonight.
I’m packing it in. Let’s try this again tomorrow, and get a series win, eh?
343: One can be a fan of the game and still understand that Vidro does not help this lineup. Whatever happened to critical thinking?
Still, as Lauren accurately pointed out, Dave has done all the work for you. All you need to do is read and learn, or read and state why you disagree with his analysis. Whatever happened to reading and learning?
Adam Jones went 5-5 with a double and a triple.
342 Darryl, I didn’t know Lauren’s comment was meant as joke? I guess it really depends on which way you look at it. To you it was probably a laugh riot, to Jeff it was probably a little offensive.
*folds up the bag of troll food*
Yes, you’re right 348.
#343 (JeffS) & 349 (BillPhi2):
I’m right there. I’m a fan of the game, learning to judge players by more effective means thanks to this site, but I still love the Mariners. Thus, I want all of their players to do well. I don’t root for Vidro to fail–as much as I’d rather see him out of the starting lineup–because if he fails it means the team has a lowered chance to win the game. That’s what JeffS has been saying all evening; how is that wrong?
343: That’s kinda the point of this site. You’re supposed to defend your own arguments, not assert nonsense and demand that someone else do your legwork, or announce that no one is allowed to criticize Vidro because he wears a Mariners uniform.
There are many, many posts on USSM that show that Vidro is not a good baseball player. Of course we all root for him, because he’s a Mariner, but most of the posters here are wiser than the common homer fan who refuses to see forest through the trees out of simple ignorance.
347- You make a great point about Green changing roles, but you wouldn’t expect the onion to give up five runs in an inning.
Maybe consciousness causes a waveform collapse? So, the Mariners are in a state of winning-not winning until someone pays attention.
ok, the Indians managed (yet another) come-back win, let’s see what we can do.
that won;t do it.
JEFF! JUST CONFORM!!! DAMN YOU!! JUST CONFORM!!!
Ah, the Senior Sunday games.
“Kids, get off my lawn!”
“Um, this is the field, sir.”
“Kids, get off my field!”
Will the vendors be selling prune juice and Fixodent?
353: I understand where you’re coming from. It’s a short-term vs. long-term viewpoint. In the long term, Vidro is a drag on the team. If he does well in the short term, it reduces his chances of being removed from the lineup. This harms the team in the long term.
Yes, I’m thrilled if he goes 5-for-5 with three homeruns in a game. I’m not so thrilled if that one performance means he sticks in the lineup longer than he should. So it all depends which view one takes, really.
But this has all been explained before, no?
don’t conform jeff, you distract everyone from noticing my useless insults directd at bako clown. plus i enjoy the extra opportunities to hear about vidro’s woeful contributions.
361: maybe it was an African swallow?
Ugh, my dad’s set on how O’Flaherty totally blew the game and how it’s all his fault. He’s saying Mac is an idiot for not taking him out after walking the first batter. When I try to argue it though, I can’t come up with multiple good points, just a couple. What would you guys say to this in defense of Mac there?
This deserves a longer post of its own, but its almost 1 am over here, so here’s the short version.
There are many kinds of fans. People enjoy baseball for different reasons and experiences. What I enjoy about the game may not be the same as what you enjoy about the game. That’s one of the beauties of the sport – it appeals to a vast array of characters.
There is no correct way to be a fan. In depth analysis and understanding of the game is how some people enjoy the game. For others, it’s painting their face, yelling like crazy, and believing that anything can happen.
Both people are fans. One is not a better fan than the other. They’re just indulging themselves in the aspects of baseball that they enjoy.
If you don’t like the kind of fans that post here, that’s fine – there’s places where you’ll find like-minded individuals. But, you know what – we care deeply and passionately about this team, and just because you aren’t the same kind of fan that we are doesn’t mean that we aren’t fans.
So, to folks like JeffS, your lectures on how fans are actually supposed to act aren’t welcome here. Root for the team however you want, and let us do the same.
sigh. would have been nice to creep up on the Angels.
Not a good night to have paid filet mignon lower box seat (Section 139/row 10) prices for a Hamburger Helper performance by the Mariners. At least we got to watch a team effort.
#364– you could mention (as Geoff Baker just did) that EOF had been 5-0 with an 0.66 ERA since June 4 …
363: Yeah, an African swallow maybe. Not a European swallow.
Thanks, Slippery Elmer =)
There were two more lefties coming up and O’Flaherty hasn’t let us down like that in the past.
Despite the O’s issues with their bullpen, I really liked their PROACTIVE style of mixing and matching. NOT McLaren’s duhhhhhh, just let Eric rot to hell out there. Coming in to face two righties which he completely crapped out against, should’ve been a lil’ clue he sucked tonight…apparently it wasn’t to our McLaren. I swear he must have been taking a nap or something.
Outside of Felix’s first five innings, this was a garbage team performance on a night we really had a chance to breath down the Angels’ necks.
Now we get to face Bedard tomorrow for our troubles.
First of all, this woe-is-me, all I want to do is root for my team business is a total fabrication. No one jumped down your throat for being happy Vidro got a single – YOU jumped on other people for wishing he wasn’t having a little streak if it kept AJ in Tacoma.
So the poor-little-me act is a sham.
All of it is trollish attempts to poke at the prevailing opinions of the site and its readers and you know it.
I would be very sad if Dave shut down comments, because there is so much to be learned from them… but if you think your “VVVVVVVVVVVVVIDRROOO RULZZZZZZ” posts help, you’re wrong.
Tomorrow, it’s one time 18 winner Jarrod Washburn vs. one time 15 game winner Eric Bedard. Cheers.
Well we really went out in a blaze of glory!
Can’t believe we had a chance to be less than two games out.
Maybe I’m just pi$$ed the Yanks got lucky again, my men’s softball team was eliminated (co-ed team still alive, lol) and Chicago totally blew it vs Cleveland.
Jay effin’ Gibbons…ugh
the only thing good about Vidro is…. “Turbo” is a pretty cool nickname.
Of course I’ll also be watching Johan Santana vs. Andrew Miller on ESPN tomorrow.
Woo! Glad we didn’t lose a game on the Angels!
>sigh. would have been nice to creep up on the Angels.
378
Uh…yeah
Unless you’re optimistic we’ll gain that game tomorrow: We get Bedard and they get Tampa Bay (well its Kazmir, so maybe there’s some measure of hope)
Or, alternately, had the Angels won;
Damn! It sucks that we lost a game on the Angels…
Could be worse. I’d rather lose when LA loses than lose when they win, and every team (EVEN the Mariners) has to lose occasionally.
>sigh. would have been nice to creep up on the Angels.
On the bright side, we seem to have have a good handle on the whole “streaky ballclub” issue. :/
John, where did I say Vidro rules? I am happy for his success (when they happen, that is). I am just as happy when the others players succeed. Yes, it makes me angry that some readers (such as yourself) want Vidro to suck it up so AJ can join the club. Until that happens, we need Vidro (just like the other 9 in the lineup) to succeed if we are going to catch the Angels. Yes, I want AJ up just like everyone else, but I am not going to wish for Vidro to fail just so it MAY happen sooner. We saw how long Jurassic Carl lasted before management pulled the plug. Do you want to go through THAT again? I can’t believe I have had to type this out 10 times and you still don’t get it.
I’ve read DMZ and Dave since the Usenet days so I am very familiar with their work. However, I am not going to join on the anti-Vidro or anti-any other player bandwagon. I love this team and I will continue to wish everyone on the roster well as we make the push for the playoffs.
All I’m saying is that, with 70 games left, it doesn’t matter WHEN we pick up or lose a game against LA, just that we pick up more than we lose. If Seattle drops games they should win frequently, then maybe they don’t deserve the playoffs. I’m not trying to be a dick, but with a 162 game season… Things equalize. Go Ms!
Jeff see comment #359
JeffS:
I’m your type of fan. But if I were you, I’d just drop the subject. Dave said it well–there are different types of fans, so let’s just discuss the M’s within the parameters of our commonalities as diverse fans. Everyone knows your point of view; some agree, some feel you’re a “homer.” So what? Let’s just move on.
JJ is hilarious.
What makes the Santana-Miller matchup even more awesome is that the better pitcher goes against the better offense.
By the way, I wasn’t joking about “irritating posts from Mariners jingoists.” That’s exactly how I feel about this stuff. As numerous people have said, there’s already a prevailing mood here. If you don’t like the way people express their fandom at USSM, why burst in scowling and scolding? Just go to the majority of sites on the net where others share that perspective.
SlipElm: I don’t think JeffS is “wrong” to feel the way he does so much as extremely irritating about how he shares those feelings.
The USSMariner’s crack security team is in full effect tonight Jeff so I would just drop it. Not everyone is going to see things like you and vice versa.
JeffS on Sunday, laying out the proper way to be a Mariners fan:
“OK, PlanB, we get it. You don’t like Vidro. Now shut the fuck up about it!”
“John, what would you do if Vidro hit a grand slam in game seven of the World Series to give us this win? Would you still feel sick? So, yeah, shut the fuck up about him…”
“PlanB — I would be happy for the team and for Ho-Ram. Like any true fan.”
“Iceman, why are you so pessimistic? Seriously, get off it and enjoy it. No offense, but you think like a loser.”
SlipElm, I’ve seen you post here before and I wouldn’t define you as JeffS’s “type of fan.” Do you really want to claim that role?
Lauren:
I agree with your statement. Though my fanhood is more in line with JeffS, I understand the viewpoint of most of the readers here. Hence, I respect the “prevailing mood” and don’t bring up certain subjects. I’m here to learn, not to flame.
#390 (Lauren):
No, I’m definitely not the type of fan who calls out other users with profanity and straw man arguments. I’m the type of fan who roots for their team no matter who the managements puts on the field. I may not agree with their choices, but they’re from my home state, so they’re still my team.
…and I shut up about that fact.
You shouldn’t bring up anything here unless it’s inline with the prevailing mood…seriously. I can’t believe Jeff hasn’t learned that yet.
ah, on the postgame, Glasgow being forced to be polite to callers who suggest things like a swap of Griffey, Dunn & Harang for Jones, Broussard & Clement.
I didn’t know Harang was on the market?
DC:
Good gracious, you are a fascist, aren’t you?
(That was tongue-in-cheek, lest I become subject to your totalitarian commentary.)
(Again, another joking remark.)
Glasgow did ask the previous caller– the one who thought that Sexson was done, so the Ms should send him to Cincy for Jr — if he were the Reds GM, would he make that deal?
“I can’t believe I have had to type this out 10 times and you still don’t get it.”
Are you under the impression I don’t understand your point? Sleep easy, grasshopper, you’re coming through loud and clear.
“Yes, I want AJ up just like everyone else, but I am not going to wish for Vidro to fail just so it MAY happen sooner.”
Ok. I am in no way asking you to.
“We saw how long Jurassic Carl lasted before management pulled the plug. Do you want to go through THAT again?”
Oh, we are, my friend. We are.
“I can’t believe I have had to type this out 10 times and you still don’t get it.”
Pretty sure I do get it. Pretty sure I got it the first time. Pretty sure I got it when it was Willie Bloomquist or Carl Everett or Scott Spiezio.
It’s the same thing over and over again… it would be pretty hard not to get.
There’s really only one problem here and this little segment of your post may explain it:
“Yes, it makes me angry that some readers (such as yourself) want Vidro to suck it up so AJ can join the club.”
You see, and I want to be very clear on this… I am NOT angry that you want Vidro to succeed.
See the difference?
YOU take objection to the way that I choose to root for my team, not the other way around.
You are not repressed, you are not stifled, you are not muzzled.
I probably would never have even had cause to address a post to you save for the fact that YOU attacked me and others for the way we choose to be fans.
Not the other way around.
So get over yourself. Enjoy Vidro as much as you like. More power to you.
I will be rooting for the team. My way.
#395 (msb):
You’d think the postgame show would have a screener who’d weed out these type of callers. (Unless their intent is to force the hosts to think on their feet and maintain composure.) Examples of intellingent discourse from callers is few and far between.
That’s why I read USSM.
Dizzle: I think you actually mean what you’re saying, rather than just trying to be a troll, but here’s the thing. If someone in that mold of fan just said “I just love Vidro. I know it’s unlikely that he’ll start posting a better on-base percentage (or whatever), but I just really enjoy watching him” and then cheered when he got a hit or something, I don’t think any of the USSM regulars would be berating them. But it’s never that simple. Said poster ALWAYS either wants to argue about why that player is more valuable than everyone else thinks (although it never seems like they can pull up a bunch of facts to support that argument) or they want to accuse everyone else of not being supportive enough of that player. Yknow?
Anyone who wanted to linger around just saying “I have a soft spot for Willie Bloomquist” or “I like the way Betancourt turns a double play, in spite of those errors” isn’t going to be put in the stocks or something. I don’t necessarily think those comments would add much to the discussion, but neither do most of my idle observations during a game.
Ok. Enough for me. Audi.
SlipperyElmer… if I am coming across as hostile to your point of view… please understand that I am not.
I, for example, liked Joey Cora. Can’t defend it, just did.
In the past I also very vocally rooted for Beltre when he was… let’s say underperforming.
I don’t look down on “your type of fan” at all. I just take exception to being told to “stfu” because I support the team in a different way in a very specific situation.
Some of these guys are so far above my head with their baseball wisdom, that I can’t even understand what they’re saying half the time. I try to, but I don’t always succeed.
To me this whole thing is the exact same thing as a certain type of person calling into question my patriotism for one reason or another. It’s a very low sort of argument that assumes a moral superiority on the part of the patriot/fan, and it is extremely insulting.
Hmmm…good to know Tom Glasgow is still alive. Must be local radio only, since I haven’t seen him on tv in about a million years.
402 Lauren, Yup I’m being serious. Although at first, I thought some of you were being a little hard on Jeff, but I wasn’t aware of the comments he made previous to tonight. Therefore the USSMariner security team has my full support regarding this matter. I see nothing wrong with bashing Vidro for who he really is, an overweight tub of shit who is disguising his ineffectiveness with his batting average. There’s only two Mariners I despise more than Vidro and that is Horacio and Reitsma so I ask that any of you HoRam and Reitsma lovers to just shut the fuck up when it comes time for me to bash them.
Note: That last line was a feeble attempt to mock Jeff. I apologize if I offend anyone with my brash language.
Popping in to lighten the mood: Rowland-Smith was the one who had to wear the Barbie Backpack of Shame yesterday walking from the dugout to the bullpen before the game. But the hazing didn’t seem to bother him as much as it did O’Flaherty….?
Dave –
Odd time for a first time post, but I hope you don’t decide to turn off comments.
As exasperating as it must be sometimes to see folks come in and stink up the joint, the majority comments and folks posting do add value — especially during the game threads.
And, in a quite ironic way, many of the less informed comments actually illustrate your points extremely well. Nothing like having living, breathing, posting examples to point to.
…Argh.
My posts on this particular topic have gotten more terse, and less polite (I will continue to add the caveat that I’m not a moderator and am just speaking as an extremely frustrated fan of this site).
At this point, it comes down to this:
This site is not the P-I blog. The community here does not want it to be.
If that is the sort of community you want, GO BACK THERE.
What Lauren said in 402. Part of being a baseball fan is having irrational affections for random players (ask me about my Kal Daniels Fan Club membership card). But it’s a big big jump from ‘I like Jose Vidro and cheer every time he’s at the plate’ to ‘Jose Vidro is an asset to the Mariners’. The former will get people to nod sympathetically (again, Kal Daniels fan. Also, how is Eric Karros’ #2 comp at BRef Frank Thomas? Frank Thomas has chunks of guys like Karros in his stool). The latter will get you a deluge of righteous corrections, and they’ll be right and you’ll be wrong.
Well looks like Felix’s inability to get the leadoff batter out finally got him…when you allow the leadoff runner to reach base over and over and over, bad things generally happen. He got lucky with double plays and runners getting thrown out at second, but that wasn’t going to happen all night.