Game 95, Mariners at Blue Jays

Dave · July 22, 2007 at 9:35 am · Filed Under Mariners 

Hernandez vs Halladay, 10:05 am.

Happy Felix Day, as well as Happy Awesome Pitching Matchup Day. I love games like this. Felix vs Halladay is the kind of thing that makes baseball so much more awesome than any other sport.

After yesterdays shutout, John McLaren acknowledges that the line-up is struggling right now, and he’s made some changes.

1. Ichiro, CF
2. Lopez, 2B
3. Ibanez, DH
4. Beltre, 3B
5. Broussard, RF
6. Sexson, 1B
7. Johjima, C
8. Betancourt, SS
9. Ellison, LF

It’s a decent overhaul from the standard line-up. Vidro and Guillen get the day off, Lopez and Beltre get moved up in the order, but Ibanez continues to hit 3rd and kill rallies at a disturbing rate.

On one hand, I’m happy to see McLaren acknowledge the need for some changes in the batting order and the awareness that Raul Ibanez shouldn’t be playing the outfield. On the other hand, this line-up isn’t really any better than the one we’ve been running out there. Ellison can’t hit right-handed pitching and Broussard’s a pretty terrible outfielder, so the Ellison/Broussard corners isn’t really an upgrade over the Ibanez/Guillen corners. There’s an obvious answer to this problem, but whatever, Adam Jones is still in Tacoma, and it’s so ridiculous at this point that it’s not even worth talking about.

Maybe today’s line-up shuffle lays the groundwork for some moves that actually make the offense better. Hopefully.


337 Responses to “Game 95, Mariners at Blue Jays”

  1. kentroyals5 on July 22nd, 2007 3:19 pm

    Pineiro DFA’d..lets get him! (sarcasm)

  2. Ralph Malph on July 22nd, 2007 3:21 pm

    Maybe the Sox eating the $4 million they spent to sign Pineiro will make the M’s feel better about eating Vidro’s salary. Or Sexson’s. Or HoRam’s.

  3. Axtell on July 22nd, 2007 3:39 pm

    Will the back to back shutouts be the straw that breaks the back and finally gets Jones in a big league uniform?

    I don’t know how much more can be said on this point…the longer the team waits, the more opportunities it loses to make up ground in both the division and wild card races. The team cannot afford to blow chances like this. The Angels are too dangerous a team to think they will play this poorly the rest of the way, and the M’s simply aren’t deep enough to allow a big division lead to open again.

    What is it going to take to get Jones into the everyday lineup?

  4. Karen on July 22nd, 2007 4:09 pm

    #303 Especially that WC race.

    The Yanks are doing exactly what they’re supposed to do, beat up on the last-place teams (and some other under-.500 teams, like the Blue Jays!!!). They aren’t breathing down the M’s necks yet, but they might before they play a bunch of series against better-than-.500 teams.

    And they’ve already started their patented give-a-AAnearzero-to-get-a-useful-MLBpawn trading (Kennard for Molina)… Amazing how they do that!

  5. DizzleChizzle on July 22nd, 2007 4:42 pm

    I already feared that the M’s slumping offense was going to be horrible going into this series with the Jays.

    Happy Felix Day indeed!

    So did Felix not mix his pitches today, or did all the balls hit off of him happen to find gaps, or is it because he’s only 21? Just curious what excuse we’ve decided to use for King Felix today. As pathetic as it may sound I’m beginning to get more excited for Miggy Batista Day.

  6. johnb on July 22nd, 2007 5:01 pm

    Everyone would like to see Jones called up, but they weren’t going to do it whle they kept winning, so maybe the weekend has a silver lining.

  7. scott19 on July 22nd, 2007 5:27 pm

    301: Sad in a way…but also too funny!

    Don’t give hope there, Jo-el…maybe the Nats or D-Rays need another “starter”. 😮

  8. Mustard on July 22nd, 2007 5:32 pm

    Well I just got in from Toronto, what a brutal game.
    Guess none of my signs or myself made it on to TV. Sitting directly one row behind the M’s dugout there were some definite stupid calls being made today. Obviously the one on Rios was the one that extended the AB and then broke the game open. I have to say that the Beltre play was one of the best I have ever witnessed, yet he gets screwed and its an “almost” amazing play.

  9. naviomelo on July 22nd, 2007 5:33 pm

    307 – The Rays already have the most pitching in MLB

  10. Reign on July 22nd, 2007 5:51 pm

    298 – Yes please and no thanks

  11. befara on July 22nd, 2007 6:16 pm

    305 — Good points.

    I guess he can act like a child on the mound when a pitch doesn’t go his way because he’s 21? I thought it wasn’t good form to do that when you’re 18 or even a 12-year old little leaguer.

    And, hey, he hasn’t been pitching that long (he’s only 21 :)) so don’t expect him to know how to mix his pitches.

    But at least he carries on the tradition started by his idol Freddy Garcia of shuffling around the mound like he’s wearing a pair of pajamas.

    But come on… he’s only 21, and he’ll be a hall famer based on the fact that he’s got great stuff!

  12. G-Man on July 22nd, 2007 6:37 pm

    Pineiro DFA’ed by the Red Sox.

    Yes, I do think that 1.5 people who read this will care.

  13. G-Man on July 22nd, 2007 6:50 pm

    Sorry, I didn’t realize that news had been posted.

    AJ to LF, Ben B to 1B, and Mark Lowe back (though I fear he isn’t the arm he used to be). Don’t trade anybody, and the team is good to go.

    I nod to the comment about Boston eating Joel’s salary. We can’t even get Turbo or Sexson benched. However, I had been surprised that Billy Beane didn’t DFA Jason Kendall awhile ago.

  14. terry on July 22nd, 2007 6:57 pm

    Bless the souls
    of the dim-whitted trolls,
    Whose low self esteems
    move them to demean
    the virtues King Felix extolls.

  15. scott19 on July 22nd, 2007 7:00 pm

    309: Lots of legit prospects there, granted…but I wasn’t counting ones that their retarded ownership will probably trade the minute they “can’t afford them anymore.”

  16. scott19 on July 22nd, 2007 7:02 pm

    314: Great limerick, BTW!

  17. beckya57 on July 22nd, 2007 7:26 pm

    Don’t be shocked if Jones gets traded at the deadline for a second-tier starting pitcher. They’ve done it before, i.e. Jose Cruz for Mike Timlin, Derek Lowe for Heathcliff Slocumb. This organization is so preternaturally dumb that nothing they do shocks me. As for Felix, I’ve been saying for almost 2 years on this site that rushing kids, no matter how talented, to the majors is a bad idea; the pressure destroys them, or at least retards their development. Someone mentioned Doc Gooden; yes, he had great years at a very young age, but then look at what happened to him. Felix should be in Tacoma, perfecting his craft.

  18. terry on July 22nd, 2007 7:32 pm


    Oh ya,

    HA HA.

    Who is they?

    BTW, the Ms destroyed the careers of Jr and AROD when they rushed them to the bigs.

  19. scott19 on July 22nd, 2007 7:39 pm

    317: I was thinking the same thing about AJ…and funny you should mention Woody Woodpecker’s boneheaded moves from ’97, since I posted a huge rant about that in one of the threads from a couple of days ago (7/20).

    As for Gooden, a lot of his “drama” resulted from falling in with the wrong crowd — i.e. snowbunnies like Strawberry, (Keith) Hernandez, et al. It is a damn shame, though, every time I think of how awesome he was in his early years and how he SHOULD have just about been ready for the HOF on the first ballot right now. 🙁

  20. Cmalone187 on July 22nd, 2007 7:44 pm

    317: Yes that Cruz Jr. trade was so awful because he’s such an all-star….

  21. planB on July 22nd, 2007 7:46 pm

    Trades shouldn’t be evaluated based on hindsight.

  22. Dash on July 22nd, 2007 7:52 pm

    317 and 318: I’m so totally not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. If you are, than wow! That’s impressive.

    If you’re not, than wow that’s sad.

    Cruz Jr., he’s had a decent career, but has never been big.

    ARod and Jr. (and I can’t believe I’m defending AWad) had nothing left to learn or prove in the minors. Much like Adam Jones, they were ready for the promotion because the minors were no longer a challenge.

  23. Cmalone187 on July 22nd, 2007 8:06 pm

    322: For the record I was being sarcastic :D.

  24. scott19 on July 22nd, 2007 8:13 pm

    320: Actually, that was probably the least-sucky move of the bunch in retrospect, since we at least got a halfway productive year out of Timlin in ’98. However, that Lowe AND Varitek trade for Slocumb was bloody awful…and the bottom line is, it probably wouldn’t have been necessary to “shore-up” the ‘pen in ’97 had good ol’ Woody not blown up the set-up corps that he had (Nellie, Risley, potentially Mecir) by trading them all the year before.

  25. Cmalone187 on July 22nd, 2007 8:14 pm


    Thanks for the evaluation link I read it over and I get were Dave is coming from with the at the, “time of the trade” way of looking at a trade because at the time of the Cruz trade a lot of fans were cheesed it happened (I was one of them at the time). But when people keep referencing the trade now, it’s with the feeling he’s a hall of fame player but he isn’t. As Dash from post 322 said, “Cruz Jr., he’s had a decent career, but has never been big.” So is the Cruz trade still a bad trade?

  26. Reign on July 22nd, 2007 8:38 pm

    325 – Yes. Cruz had a certain value at the time of the trade. The value of the other players at the time of the trade vs. his value at the time of the trade is what matters to me. Not a comparison of their subsequent careers.

  27. beckya57 on July 22nd, 2007 9:18 pm

    No, I wasn’t being sarcastic, and I should have made it clear I was talking about pitchers, not position players. I think Freddy Garcia would have had a better career if he’d gotten more minor league seasoning, for example. I’m worried about Felix for 3 basic reasons: his mechanics make him injury-prone, he has no clue about pitch selection, and I just don’t think he is mentally ready for being in a major league pennant race, and I think today’s meltdown reflects that. (I’d be somewhat less concerned about the pressure on him if the M’s were hopelessly out of it.) As for Cruz, yes, he flamed out, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a terrible trade at the time (particularly since better pitchers were available), and the Lowe/Varitek for Slocumb trade is only challenged by the 1991 let’s-give-away-the-bullpen for Kevin Mitchell trade as not only the 2 worst trades ever made by the M’s, but 2 of the worst trades ever.

  28. Edman on July 22nd, 2007 10:31 pm

    Geez….some of you are simply amazing.

    Is Halladay a crappy pitcher? Is Felix a God?

    The answer is no, to both. Yet, Seattle has a whopping “2” game losing streak, and you’re screaming like Chicken Little.

    It’s great how brilliant some of you are, even though most of your baseball background comes from your Playstation.

    I love it…..really. The M’s win seven in a row, and it’s all smoke and mirrors. They lose two, and the world is coming to an end and if something isn’t done this very second, all hope is gone.

    What do any of you really care, anyway? It took you forever to embrace the reality that they are winning. Now, suddenly, you care?

    The answer is to follow the SAME path they have followed to get here….not overreact and make a rash move. Jones won’t be here tomorrow, though Lowe probably will.

    Some of you cleverly hide your love for prospects using the “we need to win now” cloak. It’s BS. You want to win NOW, you go find a lefthanded Guillen (D. Young?) who’s an experienced veteran, not risk handing the job to a rookie….especially for a whole one extra month. If you REALLY care about the M’s making the playoffs, you let Jones finish his season in Tacoma and bring him up in September, so you don’t screw yourself out of an option.

    And PLEASE stop the crap about leftfield defense. It’s great to talk about, but it seldom wins games. Outfield defense is overrated, other than having arms like Ichiro and Guillen, to get the runners to think about not taking an extra base. Beyond that, there simply aren’t enough great defensive plays to sway the outcome of a game.

    If anything, you should be jumping on Felix for his lack of maturity…..his TOTAL inability to deal with adversity….to the point that he sits and pouts on the mound, instead of backing up home. THAT is more concerning, than worrying about wheither or not Raul can’t make that once a week great play, that Jones could.

    Boston wins with Manny in LF, and the M’s can with Raul…….provided he’s hitting. But, to somehow use Jones’ defense as a reason, by itself, to bring him up, is pathetic.

    I’d love to see Jones here, but not at the risk of not making a move and banking on him being able to hit major league pitching. The BEST move is to get a veteran bat who can play LF AND keep Jones so he can start out next season as a regular. THAT accomplishes both.

    BTW….comparing Jones to Griffey and A-Fraud is reaching with long arms. I love Jones, but both Griffey and A-Fraud have “BEST OF THE CENTURY” talent…..while Jones, at best, is “BEST OF THE DECADE.”

  29. DMZ on July 22nd, 2007 11:19 pm

    Please stop accusing other fans of not being fans.

    Please stop accusing other fans of misdirection and hiding their beliefs and intentions.

    Outfield defense is important. Most metrics put top defensive outfielders at 15-20 runs/year over an average one. That’s big.

    Please stop saying other arguments are pathetic. It’s not helpful.


  30. naviomelo on July 22nd, 2007 11:55 pm

    So we’re in a pennant race, and we need to leave “best of the decade” talent in AAA. I think I follow.

  31. Axtell on July 23rd, 2007 12:02 am


    I don’t think anyone was ‘screaming’ like ‘Chicken little’, and to insult those who post here about their baseball backgrounds is completely out of line.

    Fact, the M’s haven’t scored a run in 22 innings.
    Fact, the offense has been in a funk since the all star break.
    Fact, Adam Jones would help this lineup.
    Fact, Vidro has been in a season long slump that he’s not going to shake.

    You compared Ibanez to Manny in Boston? Are you kidding me?

  32. dw on July 23rd, 2007 12:11 am

    I’m worried about Felix for 3 basic reasons: his mechanics make him injury-prone, he has no clue about pitch selection, and I just don’t think he is mentally ready for being in a major league pennant race, and I think today’s meltdown reflects that.

    And how exactly is keeping him in Tacoma for the last three years going to fix ANY of that?

    He has to grow up. And he has to grow up in the majors. There was nothing left for him to learn in AAA, and there’s still nothing for him to learn in AAA today. Now, it’s all about him learning to be a pitcher, growing up, and babying his arm.

  33. dw on July 23rd, 2007 12:23 am

    Boston wins with Manny in LF, and the M’s can with Raul…….provided he’s hitting.

    Manny’s 2007 OPS (worst of his career): .870
    Ibanez’ 2006 OPS (best of his Mariners career): .869

    Ibanez’ 2007 OPS is .711. In order to match Manny’s OPS this year, he’d have to have what, a 1.09 OPS the rest of the way? He’d have to hit better than A-Rod has been hitting this year (1.068) for the remainder of the season just to catch back up to Manny.

    Can you honestly tell me that Ibanez could do that, and at the same time step up his mediocre at best glove work to the level Adam Jones is at now?

  34. hcoguy on July 23rd, 2007 12:33 am

    Hmm. When the meltdown happened it didn’t even cross my mind that it would be the only thing that seemed to draw such a reaction from the game.

    Felix’ tantrum didn’t lose the game. The mariners “hitting” attack lost the game. And the one before that.

    Felix was on for most of the game and like most games, a pitch or two called/hit differently decided the ballgame.

  35. TheMsfan on July 23rd, 2007 5:47 am

    that game was not very much fun to watch

    also, not sure if this is the place for it, but RIP Mike Coolbaugh, the AA 3rd base coach for the tulsa drillers was killed after being hit in the head by a foul ball.

    Always thought they should wear helmets, im sure most disagree, but gosh that ball comes in quick

  36. TheMsfan on July 23rd, 2007 5:48 am

    1st base, not 3rd base, sorry

  37. msb on July 23rd, 2007 6:36 am

    unbelievable. well, maybe not unbelievable, but awful.

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