Weekend in Seattle roundup
I have to be up in 5 1/2 hours to catch a flight back to the east coast, so this won’t be a comprehensive wrapup of everything that I saw the five days I was in town, but here’s a quick recap.
Thursday’s USSM/LL event in Tacoma was a lot of fun, and of course, a big thanks goes out to Bill Bavasi for spending over an hour of his time on a day off hanging out with us and answering almost every question we threw at him. Part of the reason he’s willing to keep doing this with us (this is the third time we’ve had Bavasi for a get together) is because the chats are off the record, so some of the stuff will just stay with the 45 people who were around for the Q&A, but he did give us some interesting answers about different things that I’m okay sharing – namely, that we’ve been totally wrong about Wladimir Balentien’s option status.
I’ve been telling anyone that will listen that he’s out of options after this year and would have to stick on the 25 man roster next spring, but that’s not true – he qualifies for the fourth year option exception, and if the Mariners don’t trade him this winter, they can send him back to Tacoma next spring. And yes, Bill confirmed that there is no chance whatsoever that they begin 2008 with two rookies in the outfield (as we’ve believed all along), so you can stop wishing for a Jones-Ichiro-Balentien outfield next year. It won’t happen.
There was also the great humor of watching the people arrive about 15 minutes before first pitch only to find Bavasi standing in their row blocking their seats. Having no idea who he was, they actually asked him to move, then proceeded to completely ignore what was going on around them. Hilarious.
The game in Cheney was fun, though I spent most of my time answering questions rather than intently watching Robert Rohrbaugh shut down the Memphis Redbirds. A couple of guys definitely got their $25 worth. As Devin noted, I should have charged by the hour. But I was happy to do it, and hope those guys enjoyed it as well.
The Friday night event up in Everett was just as enjoyable, though for totally different reasons. The pregame Q&A guest was Bob Fontaine, the Mariners scouting director, and we got a solid half hour of his time before the season ticket holders booted us from their seats. Bob was great, and if you were there, you could tell he really enjoyed it as well. We’re definitely going to have him back for another (longer) Q&A at some point in the future, because as Derek noted right after it ended, we could have picked his brain all night.
The Aquasox then treated us to a night of interesting events, from the monstrous home runs from Gregory (don’t call him Greg) Halman and Kalian Sams to the physical assault of Jeff Sullivan by a yellow inflatable bird. I won’t spoil you with the details, as I’m sure Jeff will provide his own account, but let’s just say that we got pretty close to having to break up a fight between a 6′5 20-something and a mascot wearing glasses full of compressed air.
Saturday night saw Derek, Jeff, Devin, and I hitting up the Mariners game at Safeco. Best story of the night, among many – during Beltre’s first at-bat, a six or seven year old kid starts an “O-ver-ra-ted” chant, which didn’t particularly endear himself to any of us, all dyed-in-the-wool Beltre fans. About twenty seconds later, Beltre deposited a Dice-K fastball into the center field seats. Needless to say, we didn’t let the aforementioned child off the hook without retribution, and it’s unlikely he’ll be casting aspersions at our third baseman any time soon.
I also got the pleasure of meeting a good number of the commenters from both here and Lookout Landing and enjoyed the company of many good people. All in all, it was a successful good trip to the Northwest, and if you missed out on either of the USSM/LL events, you should make a point to come to the next one. We do our best to make sure you guys get your monies worth, and I don’t know of too many other teams that get to regularly sit down with their GM and Scouting Director and ask them anything they’d like.
Ugh – less than 5 hours before I have to get up for a day of cross country flying. I’m glad the last five days were worth it.
My personal hell is being stuck at a red light for perpetuity in the back seat of a Tercel, sandwiched between that six year old kid and Harry Canary.
Any on-the-record explanation for why they won’t start two young outfielders? Jones doesn’t seem to qualify as a rookie. Is the answer the same old “rookies get managers fired” whereas established veterans who fall off the cliff are somebody else’s fault?
From what you write here, it seems as though Balentien is as good as gone with another off season of acquiring mediocre veterans for talented, but “unproven” prospects.
Any reason to think the management will be better in the next offseason than they were in the past?
I’m a regular at LL but don’t post here in order to save you guys the bandwidth. Thanks for putting together such a tremendous series of events and I look forward to doing it again.
Yes, Dave, thanks to you and Jeff and all else involved for your efforts in getting these two events together. It was a lot of fun and I’m already looking forward to the next one(s?).
Also, should I expect a hit from Mr. Halman’s people after calling him Greg in my wrap-ups everyday for the last 4 months?
2. I don’t recall a specific alibi directly from the GM, but my guess is as talented as Wlad and Adam Jones are, and as well as they have performed this year in Tacoma, they are still, at the MLB level, two unproven commodities. We know they’re talented and have tremendous upside, but will their talent translate into production in 2008? It appears Bill would rather ask that question of one outfielder than two at once. To ask the Mariners to go with both untested outfielders would be to take the risk that one or both struggle and leave the M’s with 1-2 lineup holes occupying LF/RF with no backup plan.
How do “4th year exceptions” work anyway? I’ve honestly never heard the term.
#2: Who says Wlad has to be OF? With Ibanez’s slumping bat and Guillen’s trade value. The Mariners could always trade Jose Guillen and Raul Ibanez and chances are you could get a pretty decent starting pitcher for Jose Guillen right now. Then you could just put Wlad at DH while getting another (preferably leftie) power hitter in the offseason via free agency.*
*Remember this name: Kosuke Fukudome, if you don’t know who he is now, you probably will soon.
Here are my big questions though before I post too many times though concerning the minor leaguers:
*When will Jeff Clement get his first opportunity in the Major Leagues?
*Where will Kam Mickolo and Mark Lowe be pitching a year from now?
*And can some of the top young players in AAA right now such as Jeremy Reed, Mike Morse, and Rob Johnson eventually turn into the role players this team desperately needs possibly as soon as next year?
There is no way you would get a “pretty decent” starting pitcher for Jose Guillen right now.
Balentien should end up being a big piece of whatever trades the Mariners make this offseason, because that’s about the only way we’re going to improve this team.
The FA Market doesn’t inspire me again.
So… any chance of an east-coast meet?
/curses life, and the Eastern time zone
I’ve got to laugh at the line about the six year old kid, he learned a valuable lesson there.
That is right 6 year olds, don’t mess with Beltre or the USS Mariner.
Sounds like a good weekend, I wish I could have come to the events.
As always, I wish my work schedule had kept me up in Seattle through the end of the year. I was looking forward to meets and feeds and this sounds like another good one. Even not being there, thanks for taking the time to put this together Dave/Jeff as it only helps make this community stronger.
As one of the guys who ‘got his money’s worth’ — thanks Dave! It was interesting to pick your brain and meet ya’ll.
My fave line:
“Hey Dave, do you think Rohrbaugh is an upgrade over Ho?”
“Aren’t you?”
Yeah Dave, thanx. Even though I chose to leave y’all and go watch the game from my normal seat, hearing Bavasi say we had another option on Wlad was easily worth taking off early from work and the tiny little fee you charged to be there.
Nice touch giving the man a t-shirt.
Great news on Wlad, if for no other reason than it increases his value in trade (though I would love to see him enter the spring with a legitimate shot at making the team).
Is Jeremy Reed a minor league FA this offseason? You have to figure that one way or another, he’ll be in another organization next year.
Bill confirmed that there is no chance whatsoever that they begin 2008 with two rookies in the outfield
What’s the chance that Bavasi is involved in 2008 Mariners roster construction? Did he give any inkling toward his future?
I like BB and have great respect for him for showing up at a USSM event after he’s been ripped all off-season. But if he started the season on the hot seat, he should be burnt to a crisp by now. I don’t want to derail this into a BB thread, but the best you can say for his past off-season is that Batista has been reasonable as a back-end starter. Everyone else has sucked which makes him 1 for 5, not counting the Ibanez extension.
Sorry I missed the events; sounds like it was a blast.
Good for you guys on that six-year-old fan. Beltre might be overpaid, but if anything he’s underrated not overrated.
I am SO bummed I missed this. My inconsiderate sister and her wedding planning..
Visiting Yankee Stadium was overall pretty cool, though. Even with the drunkard morons surrounding me.
I’m heading back to Seattle (in the airport now). I’ll wave to you as I zoom by, Dave.
Well, technically, Jones will probably not be a rookie next year. So having a Jones-Ichiro-WLAD outfield alignment would mean having only one rookie. Once Bavasi realizes this, he can use our preferred OF alignment and stick to his words to not have two rookies.
I just don’t understand. Other teams stick talented kids in the lineup and win. Why do we think it’s a bad idea? Sigh.
I think Wlad would be most valuable for us as a trade piece, but this isn’t a rosterbation thread. Sounds like you had a great event, Dave!
Ian Kinsler was awesome in the Everett game.
Just wanted to say thanks Dave/Jeff/Derek/whoever else coordinated these events. I made it to both of them and had a great time, look forward to the next one.
Adding on to #6, How does the exception work and also how does it effect the 5th year/following year?
A team gets a fourth option if a player is entering his fourth or fifth pro season and has already been optioned in three separate years. Seasons spent entirely in short-season leagues (below low A ball) do not count. Thus, Wlad’s first three seasons in the VSL and Arizona Rookie League (2001-2003) do not count for purposes of a fourth option, so his first year that counted was 2004 (split between low A and high A). The M’s used options in 2005 (high A), 2006 (AA), and 2007 (AAA), so under the rule, the M’s get a fourth option for 2008 (Wlad’s fifth season that counts).
25- I am still a but confused. 04,05,06,07 is already 4 years of him being optioned, 08 would be 5. So the forth year option exception rule should actually be called the 5th year option exception rule?
In 2009 he goes on the 25 man or away from the organization, correct?
No option was used in 2004, so 2008 will be the fourth option.
A team does not have to use an option until a player goes on the 40-man roster, and Wlad did not have to go on the 40-man roster until after the 2004 season.
“Bill confirmed that there is no chance whatsoever that they begin 2008 with two rookies in the outfield”
Everything is relative so the questions is can Bavasi find a better cost/benefit alternative than Balentien?
While the “rookies get managers fired” thinking may have some merit, teams can win with more than one rookie in the lineup. This years Arizona team would be a good case in point.
For your sake, Dave, I’m really glad you got to have another taste of the community you have helped build. Between LL and USSM, there are some fantastic people that really mesh well together. And even outside of LL/USSM, too, there’s some fantastic people.
We’re lucky to have a good core of blog leaders to put stuff together like this, and a good group of folks to participate.
I just wish the M’s were built half as well as the M’s blog-o-sphere…
27- Thanks.
I know it is off the record but did anyone ask about the signing of Phillippe Aumont? Details would be great but I understand if you can’t.
I also wonder whether there was any discussion of the Adam Jones situation — his call-up (why it took so long), projected playing time, etc.
sadly, the 6-year-old was probably just parroting what he heard at home.
that would be swell, as now I am really ticked I couldn’t get to Everett
I’m guessing it wasn’t an “Antonetti in ‘08″ shirt
Wish I could have been there; but I’m really glad to hear that we have one more year on Wlad the Impaler. If nothing else, it means we don’t have to make any hurried moves with him — we can keep him until either a good offer comes around or (my best-case scenario, however unlikely it might be) he hits so well next summer that he forces his way into a job with the big club. After all, just because he doesn’t start 2008 in Seattle doesn’t guarantee he won’t end there.
speaking of events this weekend, another veteran weighed in on Adam Jones:
“Batista, victim of that early error, isn’t about to doubt the presence of the rookie in the outfield, however. “People have to understand. He’s going to be the future of this organization and we need to put him out there ASAP, so he can get comfortable out there,” Batista said. “Sooner or later, between he and Ichiro, it’s going to be an interesting outfield. There won’t be many balls hitting the ground. Where he’s going to play is going to be the question. But he’s going to be out there somewhere.”"
and OMG. Jim Street made a snarky comment in the Mariners Mailbag!!!
Bavasi shows a lot of character, coming ot a USSM event, even though some less than flattering words have been written here, and a flat tire in Spring Training, left him to run a USSM event by himself, without an MC and proper introduction.
Stand-up guy, some questionable trades and signings.
Argh. Scheduling this fest at the same time as the Mt. Baker Blues Festival really left me conflicted, but the music won. Catching Jeff Healy was probably good compensation for missing my USSM friends (esp. at Everett, where I’ve been a ticket plan holder for many years), since USSM will likely be around a lot longer than Healy. Missed you all and the gossip, and I hope future events have a little more lead time.
Re #34: I guess it would make sense that the pitchers would have a different perspective on Jones being out there than the hitters would; after all, he’s not taking playing time away from them, he’s just turning the flyballs they give up into outs.
Ugh – less than 5 hours before I have to get up for a day of cross country flying. I’m glad the last five days were worth it.
I understand and sympathize with the sentiment, Dave, but remember, the Mariners do this about 10 times already this summer…
I want to add my thanks for pulling these events together as well, though I only made it to the one in Everett.
Listening to Bob Fontaine was very enjoyable and informative. A hearty aye for bringing him back for future events. I’d be very interested in hearing others in the scouting/player development organization as well if you could work that magic.
I can imagine Bavasi’s reaction when you gave him the (expletive) Dave Samson t-shirt. Dude has a sense of humour.
35 – Agreed, Bavasi has a lot of worth as a person in my opinion, if not as the GM of a baseball team.
Wlad’s a good player, but unless he’s an Edgar/Guillen style spray hitter instead of a Buhner-style pull hitter, Safeco is the worst park in the universe for him- meaning his value as a Mariner is less than pretty much than anywhere else, and he IS someone you’d want to trade.
That being said, yeah, it irritates me that Bavasi is an advocate of “better make sure any veteran you have is completely washed up before dumping him, because you wouldn’t want to hurt TEAM CHEMISTRY!!111!!!”, as opposed to “better to trade someone a year early as opposed to a year late”. I’m not particularly attached to Jose Guillen and think that throwing multi-year contracts to a bunch of over-30, declining or often-injured roster roadblocks (Vidro, Guillen, Raul) is just bad policy… and while Wlad will be hurt by Safeco, the fact that he’s hit for decent average and is walking in the minors makes me think he won’t be totally screwed, and if the difference between Wlad’s 400K and Guillen’s millions improve the roster elsewhere… why NOT play a couple of rookies?
Yeah, being dead set against something like that shows a very unflattering rigidity. Bad management 101 – be completely inflexible.
But I’m glad your trip was good, Dave. Look forward to any tidbits you are allowed to share with us out-of-towners.
Has anyone heard what the situation is regarding signing our first round draft pick? I’ve heard there is a date where we lose him if we don’t sign him by that date, but I don’t know which day that is. Any concern he hasn’t signed yet?
Where is Dave at on the East Coast again? I’d love to get some kind of Mariners get together out here.
44- Aug. 15th is the date. I asked the question earlier also.
Thanks for a great Tacoma event, Dave … and Jeff and Devin. You hit it: Bill Bavasi may drive us nuts with how he does his job, but the fact that he’s willing to explain — in fact, won’t shut up about it at times when he really probably should — to a bunch of fan-geek propellerheads like us makes him a first-rate person.
I wonder if Theo Epstein would dare party with the Sons of Sam Horn.
I understand and sympathize with the sentiment, Dave, but remember, the Mariners do this about 10 times already this summer…
The minute that the Mariners fly coach, wedged into middle seats next to a cranky baby and an overweight window-seater that has to get up to go to the bathroom every 30 minutes, I will feel bad for the Mariners and their many cross-country flights.
There are physical effects due to travel, even in first class. Check the literature.
There are physical effects due to travel, even in first class. Check the literature.
Undoubtedly. But the M’s, as do most (all?) teams these days, fly their own chartered plane, on their own schedule, with their own seating configuration, which is designed to minimize these effects as much as possible – which is why I don’t feel too bad for them.
Sometimes I think Batista is the only guy on the team who has a clue, or at least he’s the only one who speaks up about it.
McLaren needs to stop letting the players run the team
45. North Carolina… not too close to Mariners action. He gets to see some great minor league and college ball, though.
45. I agree an East Coast get together would be great.
Jeff, you have to admit, I’m pretty fast for a 8-foot-tall inflatable bird.