In Other News

Dave · August 9, 2007 at 12:10 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Edit: Mariners have acquired John Parrish from Baltimore, reportedly for non-prospect outfielder Sebastian Boucher, and optioned Mark Lowe to Tacoma. This is probably a good move for Lowe to get more regular work in low pressure situations, but Parrish won’t help this team. He’s now their worst reliever and they’re very unlikely to realize that.

And, if you wanted an alternative, the Indians released Fernando Cabrera today. Cabrera > Parrish, and he’s now available to anyone for a minor league contract.

Here’s a new thread for discussion of the team before the game thread goes live later tonight. However, this thread comes with rules. The following topics are off limits:

1. Jose Vidro
2. Chemistry
3. Clutch Hitting

If you want to talk about any of those things, your thread is below. Call it segregation if you want, but we’re serious about trying to get this place back to being something better than what it has been lately.

Comments

154 Responses to “In Other News”

  1. RaoulDuke37 on August 9th, 2007 12:13 pm

    Dave,

    If this has been addressed elsewhere (which i haven’t found) feel free to blow it away.

    It looks like Tomo Ohka did pretty terrible in AAA, and the Mariner’s let him go. When I look at his stats this year with Toronto, he didn’t look THAT bad.

    Any thoughts?

  2. Jeff Nye on August 9th, 2007 12:15 pm

    Is there any upside to the guy that the P-I blog says that we might be giving up Sebastian Boucher for, former Baltimore lefty John Parrish?

    For that matter, is giving up Sebastian Boucher anything to be concerned about?

    Link is here:
    http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/archives/119730.asp

  3. Mat on August 9th, 2007 12:15 pm

    Dave, do you have any sense of whether or not the front office is seriously looking at making any more changes to the roster (like adding another starter), or are they just going to take their chances on what they have out there now?

  4. Dave on August 9th, 2007 12:16 pm

    Ohka walked more guys in Toronto than he struck out, and they released him for a reason – he’s pretty much done as a professional pitcher. The injuries have zapped his already marginal stuff, and now he’s just throwing batting practice.

  5. built2crash on August 9th, 2007 12:17 pm

    Dave,
    if the Mariners fall on their face down the stretch and Bavasi is fired, what are our chances to see Jones and Balentien starting next year?

  6. Dave on August 9th, 2007 12:18 pm

    Sebastian Boucher isn’t a prospect. Losing him isn’t going to hurt anything.

    Of course, I’m not sure exactly what the M’s think they’re getting in John Parrish. His command is disastrously bad. He’s immediately going to become the worst reliever on the team, and he’s inferior to Ryan-Rowland Smith in almost every way. He won’t help the team.

    No cost, no reward.

  7. geo on August 9th, 2007 12:24 pm

    I have a question/comment that some of you may be able to help me with. There seems to be an endless supply of information about why the M’s should not be and can not win. Can anyone show why they are winning and will? And thank goodness the “c” word is forbidden. It seems like if the baseball stats community were surgeons operating on a patient with 40% survival rate they would say: “if you get this operation you will die.”

  8. Dave on August 9th, 2007 12:24 pm

    Wait, my bad, I figured it out – John Parrish had a 3.12 ERA for the Orioles two years ago. So, Parrish = awesome. Of course.

  9. Jeff Nye on August 9th, 2007 12:25 pm

    Any word on the David Wells situation? Is it even being considered within the organization, or is it something where they don’t see the value?

  10. Safeco Hobo on August 9th, 2007 12:27 pm

    Dave-

    I asked this yesterday, but I’ll try again.

    What are your thoughts on Campillo? I know nothing special and probably down at Tacoma for a reason, I just can’t figure out with the decent numbers he’s been putting up this year nobody has even mentioned him as a possible replacement for Ho-Ram. Does he end up still ranking lower than Ho-Ram and Weaver?

  11. terry on August 9th, 2007 12:28 pm

    How much has being on the 25-man roster this season hurt Morrow’s future?

    While it’s perhaps too early to get upset about Jones’ playing time, does using Jones as Ellison v. 2.0 hurt his development?

  12. billT on August 9th, 2007 12:28 pm

    You might also note that Parrish isn’t a rookie. And remember, rookies cost managers their jobs!

    I hate this team…

  13. Matt A on August 9th, 2007 12:28 pm

    What do you think of Carlos Zambrano after this year. He will prolly command the biggest contract for a pitcher in history passing 5.16 ERA Barry Zito. Will we be in the running if he doesnt get re-signed?

  14. Notor on August 9th, 2007 12:30 pm

    What’re the chances that Mickolio gets called up and Morrow gets sent back down to be stretched into a starter?

    Not good I’m guessing….

  15. fret_24 on August 9th, 2007 12:30 pm

    I was looking into the David Wells thing a few minutes ago and noticed that Joel Pinero is getting the start for the Cards tonight against Chris Young and the Padres.

    Dave, I’m a little unclear on claiming a player off waivers. Couldn’t someone (please) outbid us on Parrish?

  16. Mike Snow on August 9th, 2007 12:30 pm

    Of course, I’m not sure exactly what the M’s think they’re getting in John Parrish.

    A lefthanded Brandon Morrow?

  17. eponymous coward on August 9th, 2007 12:33 pm

    I see: we’re running low on Random Reliever Churn for guys like Jason Davis, Sean White and so on, and Parrish is our version of Star Trek’s Ensign Redshirt to be used in 13-6 games?

    Well, whatever.

    Say, Dave, just so we can have discussion not involving Forbidden Topics: let’s assume, for giggles, that the current standings ARE how the season plays out (not likely, but bear with me), and we eke out the Wild Card (or, if you like, nose out the Angels), and maybe even win a postseason series… but don’t win it all or make the World Series.

    Are you still on the Antonetti ’08 bandwagon? Why or why not?

  18. robbbbbb on August 9th, 2007 12:37 pm

    So, the M’s have a surplus of good relievers. Which of them might be candidates to move back to the rotation? (Aside from the obvious “Brandon Morrow”?)

    I wonder about Sean Green. Is there something that says he’s not capable of being transitioned back to a starter? His stuff doesn’t seem to rely on blowing a bunch of heat past guys. He’s thrown as many as three innings in a ballgame. Could he be extended to a starter?

  19. Dave on August 9th, 2007 12:39 pm

    if the Mariners fall on their face down the stretch and Bavasi is fired, what are our chances to see Jones and Balentien starting next year?

    Still probably nil.

    Any word on the David Wells situation? Is it even being considered within the organization, or is it something where they don’t see the value?

    I’d call it unlikely.

    What are your thoughts on Campillo?

    Not a major league pitcher.

    How much has being on the 25-man roster this season hurt Morrow’s future?

    I’d say it delays his future more than anything. With time in the minors to start the year, he may have been ready to help the team as a starter as early as next year. Now? No way.

    While it’s perhaps too early to get upset about Jones’ playing time, does using Jones as Ellison v. 2.0 hurt his development?

    No. He was done learning anything in Tacoma.

    What do you think of Carlos Zambrano after this year.

    Don’t want him, and he’ll re-sign with the Cubs.

    What’re the chances that Mickolio gets called up and Morrow gets sent back down to be stretched into a starter?

    None. Mickolio just went on the DL, and Morrow’s a reliever for the rest of the year.

    Dave, I’m a little unclear on claiming a player off waivers. Couldn’t someone (please) outbid us on Parrish?

    Parrish has already cleared waivers, I believe.

    Are you still on the Antonetti ‘08 bandwagon? Why or why not?

    Yep – I don’t believe that jobs should be treated as rewards for past service, but rather that an organization owes it to themselves to put the best possible people in place to help the team win going forward. Chris Antonetti gives the Mariners a better chance to win than Bill Bavasi does.

  20. Rizo on August 9th, 2007 12:42 pm

    Just got the word, John Parrish is now a Mariner.

  21. msb on August 9th, 2007 12:43 pm

    I’m not sure exactly what the M’s think they’re getting in John Parrish.

    hey, for almost 2 innings over the last two nights, he’s kept the Mighty Mariner Offense at bay!

  22. Rizo on August 9th, 2007 12:43 pm

    Mark Lowe is optioned down to AAA Tacoma.

  23. Notor on August 9th, 2007 12:44 pm

    Great…..Just what we needed [sarcasm]

  24. Matt A on August 9th, 2007 12:45 pm

    God why another releiver? I’d much rather have Lowe.

  25. Mike Snow on August 9th, 2007 12:45 pm

    I wonder about Sean Green. Is there something that says he’s not capable of being transitioned back to a starter?

    Sean Green has made exactly two starts in his professional career. (Then again, Brandon Morrow has only made a handful more.) Anyway, I’d expect him to lose too much velocity and/or not survive a second trip through a lineup, and prefer to keep him as the new and improved Jeff Nelson.

  26. Notor on August 9th, 2007 12:45 pm

    What do you think about Santana for next year? Think we have a shot at landing him?

  27. Notor on August 9th, 2007 12:46 pm

    Does this mean they’re trying to stretch Lowe into a starter? o.O

    I’d think Lowe would be better than Parrish in relief.

  28. Matt A on August 9th, 2007 12:46 pm

    What do you think about Santana for next year? Think we have a shot at landing him?

    New York Yankees….

  29. msb on August 9th, 2007 12:48 pm

    oh, of course. “Parrish retired Jose Vidro on a grounder to open the seventh”

    ’cause no one else has done that this season ….

  30. msb on August 9th, 2007 12:49 pm

    Stone confirms it

  31. horatiosanzserif on August 9th, 2007 12:50 pm

    A bit out of left field:

    What are the chances of Johan Limonta making the Future 40? It looks like he just had a big day in A+, where he’s hitting for decent power/average with too many strikeouts.

  32. JG on August 9th, 2007 12:55 pm

    Good lord that other thread is terrible. I guess with Reitsma on the DL Mac wanted another crappy veteran to give the ball to in game on the line situations. Sigh. Though if he gets a mop up role and it helps Lowe come back I’m ok with it.

  33. Sammy on August 9th, 2007 12:57 pm

    That’s odd… so is Parish’s first game gonna be in Camden, facing his old team? And why on earth did we pick this guy up? Dude’s got a 1.18 career K:BB.

  34. Colm on August 9th, 2007 12:57 pm

    I’ll chime in and say that the authors of this blog are against signing free agent pitchers as a matter of conviction.

    Matt A. Is Santana a free agent? I think not. Were you suggesting a trade?

  35. revbill on August 9th, 2007 12:58 pm

    Based on how other decisions have been made, I would bet that they “needed another veteran lefty in the pen” and Parrish was “the best one available.”

  36. Grizz on August 9th, 2007 12:59 pm

    Dave, has RRS improved his stock this year to at least serviceable middle reliever?

  37. CSG on August 9th, 2007 1:01 pm

    Limonta’s numbers aren’t very impressive when you consider the offensive environment he’s hitting in, and he’s also a little old for the league.

  38. Tek Jansen on August 9th, 2007 1:05 pm

    The upside to this trade is that Lowe gets a little more regular work to get back his stuff and command without the pressure of a pennant race. If Mac had decided that Lowe was not going to be used in pressure situations, then this deal in no way harms the M’s. Now, if Mac uses Parrish in situations where Parrish does not belong, that is another story. Hopefully Mac learned his lesson with Reitsma.

  39. CSG on August 9th, 2007 1:05 pm

    Speaking of prospects though, when is the next Future Forty coming?

  40. Sammy on August 9th, 2007 1:06 pm

    Doesn’t look like Parrish is effective even as a LOOGY. I don’t understand this move at all.

  41. Notor on August 9th, 2007 1:07 pm

    Colm-

    Santana will be a free agent at the end of the season, and he’s stated he doesn’t want to come back to the Twins next year. I was wondering what our chances of landing him are…He wants to play for a contender so that would probably mean Yankees, but we have lots of money to throw at him too.

  42. HamNasty on August 9th, 2007 1:09 pm

    This is the most depressing thing I have heard all season, mostly due to timing of the move.

    Did they not see him get rocked the last two nights? Did they know he comes from one of the worst bullpens in the league and is part of the problem there? Did they wait all year to get Lowe back then send him to AAA? Didn’t we try this with a right hander called Jason Davis already?

    Damn you Bill, I was having a good day. We wanted the other lefty pitcher, the fat one they call Boomer!

  43. Alex on August 9th, 2007 1:10 pm

    [deleted, Vidro]

  44. Sec 108 on August 9th, 2007 1:10 pm

    I wish Raul had taken Parrish deep on Tuesday instead of Walker. Then maybe the FO would know he wasn’t worth picking up.

  45. CSG on August 9th, 2007 1:12 pm

    I understand the desire to get Mark Lowe more work, but why not just call up Jake Woods if you need a crappy left-hander?

  46. bermanator on August 9th, 2007 1:13 pm

    Dave,

    Realistically, what are the odds that the Mariners make a GM change in the offseason?

  47. Grizz on August 9th, 2007 1:14 pm

    Santana will be a free agent at the end of the season

    Um, no. Santana is signed through 2008. Dave and Derek even put a nice “MLB Contract” link to Cott’s on the right.

  48. Teej on August 9th, 2007 1:16 pm

    Santana will be a free agent at the end of the season . . .

    No, he won’t. He’ll be a free agent at the end of 2008.

    and he’s stated he doesn’t want to come back to the Twins next year.

    That’s a stretch. He was frustrated and hinted at some things, but he didn’t say outright that he doesn’t want to come back.

  49. Teej on August 9th, 2007 1:18 pm

    Oh, and thanks for the thread, Dave! It’s so much nicer over here. The air smells cleaner, fresher.

  50. msb on August 9th, 2007 1:18 pm

    Santana will be a free agent at the end of the season, and he’s stated he doesn’t want to come back to the Twins next year

    well, no, he hasn’t. He has expressed his unhappiness with Castillo being traded, and others have questioned the Twins willingness to pony up the money to keep him, but he has not said he wouldn’t come back.

  51. Notor on August 9th, 2007 1:20 pm

    Sorry you’re right, he’s signed through ’08.

    My bizzle. I wouldn’t be surprised if he wants out though.

  52. J from Issy on August 9th, 2007 1:20 pm

    #41

    Santana is a free agent after 2008 with a no trade through next year. Get it straight.

    If the Yankees want Santana then they will get him. Seattle doesnt have enough top tier talent to acquire Santana except as a FA.

  53. CSG on August 9th, 2007 1:20 pm

    Who was moved from the 40-man roster to make space for Parrish?

  54. Notor on August 9th, 2007 1:20 pm

    The Twins can’t afford to sign both Hunter and Santana, and my money is on them signing Hunter.

  55. Teej on August 9th, 2007 1:21 pm

    Santana is a free agent after 2008 with a no trade through next year. Get it straight.

    Relax, man.

  56. Notor on August 9th, 2007 1:22 pm

    Okay, I was ill-informed on the state of Santana’s contract and I made a mistake, thank you for correcting me.

  57. HamNasty on August 9th, 2007 1:22 pm

    Mistake on my post 42.

    I thought awful O’s lefty who’s ass was saved by our 3rd base coach sending Beltre was instead awful O’s lefty who gave up the homer to Ral. I would rather have Walker.

    Walker- 29-10 BB/K 4saves 11ER is 43 innings before the Ral HR.
    The “Vet”- 33-36 BB/K 0saves 25ER in 41.2 innings.

  58. John09 on August 9th, 2007 1:23 pm

    Dave,
    I’ve asked this in other posts but haven’t heard a response.
    What are you hearing about signing Aumont? Any concerns there? How about our other high picks?

  59. Steve Nelson on August 9th, 2007 1:23 pm

    #34:

    I’ll chime in and say that the authors of this blog are against signing free agent pitchers as a matter of conviction.

    That is simply not true, as even a cursory reading of past off-season would show. The USSM community generally has a conviction against overpaying free agent pitchers based on past superficially strong performance that is unlikely to carry into the future. Conversely, the community has a conviction favoring signing free agent pitchers to bargain contracts where past poor performance is unlikely to be repeated.

  60. J from Issy on August 9th, 2007 1:26 pm

    The M’s have about 4 open 40 man roster spots. They dont need to move anyone to make room.

  61. gwangung on August 9th, 2007 1:28 pm

    They might be against THIS particular team signing free agent pitchers since they judge based on superfically strong performance unlikely to carry into the future…

  62. Mike Honcho on August 9th, 2007 1:29 pm

    Somehow, Bill Bavasi has managed to make the team worse, in the middle of a pennant race. WOW.

    That takes some real skill…

  63. Eleven11 on August 9th, 2007 1:29 pm

    Of course, this factoid about the FNG may have been the real draw:
    “Parrish is 30, is in his sixth major-league season, and missed the entire 2006 season and much of 2005 after Tommy John surgery.” From Stone’s report. 30 year old with recent surgery, it’s like fly to jam.

  64. Downtown Ian on August 9th, 2007 1:31 pm

    Heh, maybe they just want to interrogate him for intelligence re: tonight’s pitching. Though I can’t imagine anything short of an injury coming close to equalizing the difference between HoRam and Cabrerra. :/

  65. Ralph Malph on August 9th, 2007 1:32 pm

    In 2004, Parrish managed a 3.46 ERA while allowing 55 walks in 78 innings.

    In 2005, he managed a 3.12 ERA while allowing 17 walks in 17 innings.

    He had TJ surgery in 2005 and missed all of last year.

    I don’t get this move at all. They have 2 lefties in the pen already, and this guy doesn’t have a big platoon differential. How is he any better than Reitsma? Or Hyphen? Strange.

  66. Matt from Tacoma on August 9th, 2007 1:33 pm

    #45 – Jake Woods strikes out about 4 guys per nine, while Parrish strikes out about 8. Like with Brandon Morrow, the combination of high K, high BB, and low HR is really hard to watch, and can blow up in your face from time to time, but it can be effective out of the pen.

    There’s some interesting stuff in his splits. OPS against of .857 at home, and .650 on the road (probably just sample size stuff, but still…) He’s walking nearly a quarter of the RH hitters he faces, but striking out nearly as many. He has a GB/FB of about 1.4, which is pretty high for someone with his K rate. It’s not really that hard to see why the team might think that this guy is fixable and could provide a decent middle relief arm for a stretch run.

  67. bermanator on August 9th, 2007 1:34 pm

    57 — Walker’s contract is much worse. I would rather have him too if money isn’t a factor, but you’d have a high-dollar commitment to him beyond this year.

  68. kenshabby on August 9th, 2007 1:36 pm

    Signing Parrish is yet another illogical move for the M’s FO. I have no respect for those that do not respect logic.

    This signing seems rather impulsive (or compulsive). Maybe the M’s want a guy they can bring in from the pen strictly to issue intentional walks. Though with Parrish’s poor control maybe even that would be a bad idea.

  69. mpowercc on August 9th, 2007 1:36 pm

    54

    I’m curious why you think that the Twins are more likely to sign Hunter? Not that I’m well informed about the state of the Minnesota organization, but I would think that finding a former Cy Young winner who has a career K/BB ratio of 3.75 to serve at top of your rotation is harder then digging up a career .271/.324/.471 outfielder.

  70. J from Issy on August 9th, 2007 1:37 pm

    Jake Woods was DFA and is no longer on the 40 man roster.

  71. Tek Jansen on August 9th, 2007 1:38 pm

    I tried to comment earlier. Apologies if this is a duplicate.

    While I don’t think that this trade helps the M’s, I don’t understand the negativity. They gave up nothing and did not make the team worse. If Lowe was not yet ready to pitch effectively in high leverage situations, then swapping him for Parrish does not diminish the bullpen’s effectiveness. The top five bullpen guys (J.J., Sherrill, Green, O’Flaherty, and Morrow) are still in place and have, for the most part, done a good job this year. If Parrish and 2R-Smith are numbers 7 and 6 on the bullpen depth chart, the M’s are in good shape.

  72. bram on August 9th, 2007 1:40 pm

    Thanks for this thread – it’s a much better experience than the noise fests that have been plaguing USSM recently.

  73. mpowercc on August 9th, 2007 1:40 pm

    Does this deal have an impact on signing Wells tomorrow, or is that totally dependent on HoRam’s getting shelled tonight?

  74. J from Issy on August 9th, 2007 1:43 pm

    Signing Wells would make too much sense. Having another lefty starter with playoff experience is never a bad thing especially coming as cheaply as Wells would, but this is the M’s.

  75. Panev on August 9th, 2007 1:43 pm

    Did they do this just so it was easy to put Parrish on the team plane while they were in town?

    Who are the Mariners picking up in Chicago?

  76. HamNasty on August 9th, 2007 1:43 pm

    71- They put a bad reliever into a pretty good pen, that makes it a bad move. He is the LH version of Jason Davis in the fact he is now the worst reliever in the pen. Leverage situation ready or not Lowe is a better pitcher.

  77. fret_24 on August 9th, 2007 1:45 pm

    Hopefully Dye. He’s been bonkers lately.

  78. gwangung on August 9th, 2007 1:45 pm

    Jake Woods strikes out about 4 guys per nine, while Parrish strikes out about 8. Like with Brandon Morrow, the combination of high K, high BB, and low HR is really hard to watch, and can blow up in your face from time to time, but it can be effective out of the pen.

    There’s some interesting stuff in his splits. OPS against of .857 at home, and .650 on the road (probably just sample size stuff, but still…) He’s walking nearly a quarter of the RH hitters he faces, but striking out nearly as many. He has a GB/FB of about 1.4, which is pretty high for someone with his K rate. It’s not really that hard to see why the team might think that this guy is fixable and could provide a decent middle relief arm for a stretch run.

    Now THAT’s interesting. That’s better than Woods.

    And now it starts to make more sense…

  79. gwangung on August 9th, 2007 1:46 pm

    Leverage situation ready or not Lowe is a better pitcher.

    Ready or not?

  80. Mike Snow on August 9th, 2007 1:46 pm

    I can’t imagine it affects the Wells situation. Parrish is not ready to be a starter, although it’s vaguely possible the organization thinks he could eventually go back to starting. If so, it could be a calculated gamble of the Jesse Foppert variety. That one didn’t work out, of course, but you’ve got a different starting point here. If not, then it’s a totally uninteresting trade for a back-of-the-bullpen arm.

  81. Tek Jansen on August 9th, 2007 1:48 pm

    #71 – Yes, Lowe is a better pitcher, but he will probably not see innings during this season where he can help determine wins and losses. Since Lowe has a future with the organization, let him become better in AAA. As long as Mac learned his lesson with Reitsma and doesn’t use Parrish at inappropriate moments, this move doesn’t hurt the M’s.

  82. Tek Jansen on August 9th, 2007 1:49 pm

    Oops, I meant to respond to #76, not myself.

  83. kentroyals5 on August 9th, 2007 1:50 pm

    I think everyone is over-reacting…he’s obviously just here to pitch BP to Sexson and Raul

  84. HamNasty on August 9th, 2007 1:51 pm

    79- The reason they sent Lowe down was to get more work in low leverage situations according to other posters. You would only do that if you didn’t think he was ready for high leverage situations in the majors.

    My argument is Lowe is better then Parrish even if you believe Lowe is not ready for those situations. I would take the better pitcher instead of the veteran.

    I realized my wording was a bit off after I posted.

  85. Steve T on August 9th, 2007 1:51 pm

    No way, man! This is John Parrish! The pennant is ours!

    I’m just glad we didn’t give up Balentien to get him.

  86. Notor on August 9th, 2007 1:51 pm

    75-

    What’s this about a pickup from Chicago? Where’d you hear that?

  87. The Iceman Cometh on August 9th, 2007 1:51 pm

    The only way this could make any kind of sense is if Parrish goes to the rotation and Ho to the pen (which still ain’t too sensical). But then, why not just call up Rohrbaugh?

  88. Karen on August 9th, 2007 1:52 pm

    The first thing I thought of when I read above that the Mariners acquired John Parrish (he of the 3 hits given up in his 1.0 IP last night) was that he had to be another local guy, like Bloomquist, Sexson, the departed Ellison, or even Blowers.

    Nah. He was closer to his birthplace (Lancaster PA) as an Oriole.

    He’s almost 30 years old. That has to be it. Because nearly nothing else on his ESPN stat page is a glowing recommendation.

    It’s almost hysterically funny that the Orioles, with their awful pitching, would trade one of their relievers to the Mariners…

  89. Notor on August 9th, 2007 1:53 pm

    Err nevermind, I missed the joke there.

  90. HamNasty on August 9th, 2007 1:54 pm

    81- That is true if they do not use him in important situations.

    I don’t have that confidence in McLaren, do you? We are already playing our second best LF and 1B.

    Just a tough concept for me to grasp a night after we take the WC lead, and Det loses another.

  91. fetish on August 9th, 2007 1:57 pm
  92. mpowercc on August 9th, 2007 1:58 pm

    87

    I can’t imagine them stretching him into a starter. A long reliever maybe, but we have better guys for that already. His only experience starting in the bigs came in 2000 in his first year up. He was atrociously bad (35BB to just 28 SO with 29 ER in just over 36 IP). He hasn’t been great in the ‘pen, but even Ho has got to be better then this clown as a starter.

  93. Mike Snow on August 9th, 2007 1:59 pm

    According to the Orioles’ press release, there’s also another player (to be named later) involved, or cash. I assume it’s not likely to be significant either way, but it makes it more understandable than trading somebody off a major league roster for a non-prospect like Boucher.

  94. yellowmoth on August 9th, 2007 2:00 pm

    Wow, the other thread is just horrible. I’m 99% lurker but had to comment on what is obviously a sad state of affairs. Guess all the recent publicity comes with some negative consequences. It’s sad Dave/DMZ have to spend more time babysitting than providing insight and analysis (which is why I’ve been reading this site for years….)

    Hope today’s move gives Lowe a chance to get some more work—give him a few weeks to build up strength, then bring him back when rosters expand.

  95. marc w on August 9th, 2007 2:07 pm

    Hmm, wonder who the PTBNL is. There are some intriguing names on the DL right now in the M’s system.

    I’m trying to be as positive as I can about this, while understanding that the most likely outcome is that Ryan Rowland-Smith or Eric O’Flaherty becomes the Ellison-of-the-bullpen. But the M’s recently had some success taking a RH reliever with huuuge control/command issues and turning him into a dependable, highly successful MLB player (Green), so I’m just hoping they’ve noticed something correctable in his mechanics.
    Many, many people have been burned on things like this, but you’ve got to admit it’s tempting to try and ‘fix’ guys who get 8Ks/9 in the majors. As long as the PTBNL isn’t Mickolio, it’s a low-risk, low-mediumish reward sort of a move.

  96. marinerschas2 on August 9th, 2007 2:08 pm

    94:

    Wouldn’t you (hopefully) bring him back at the end of the month? that way, he’d be eligible for playoff rosters if the situation presents itself.

  97. HamNasty on August 9th, 2007 2:14 pm

    I wouldn’t want to be trying to “fix” a 30 year old pitcher during my WC/Division races. In April sure, August/September not a chance.

    Could be the reason I am not a baseball GM though.

  98. Mike Snow on August 9th, 2007 2:15 pm

    I doubt it’s necessarily somebody on the DL, it’s probably just somebody for the Orioles to pick off a list of names in the low minors.

  99. Notor on August 9th, 2007 2:15 pm

    I wonder what’s going on with the Tigers….they lost again today, badly. Has their pitching just completely fallen apart? Bonderman has been terrible lately.

    Well anyway we now lead the wildcard race by half a game.

  100. yellowmoth on August 9th, 2007 2:16 pm

    96: Guess it depends on A) his results over the next couple weeks, and B) if we’re still in the race… I hope the answers to both are positive.

  101. forte40 on August 9th, 2007 2:22 pm

    Where was this guy in 2006?

  102. Mike Snow on August 9th, 2007 2:25 pm

    Recovering from elbow surgery (Tommy John, I believe), including follow-ups to remove scar tissue and a bone spur.

  103. marc w on August 9th, 2007 2:26 pm

    101 – Tommy John surgery.

    98 – yeah, you could be right. I’m just worried – this deal looks pretty blah right now, but if they give up someone more valuable than Boucher, that’s a very different story.

    97 – true, though I suppose it depends on how easy the ‘fix’ is. Of course, they already had Sean White and Jason Davis to experiment on this year, and the results were not encouraging.

  104. michaelfox99 on August 9th, 2007 2:27 pm

    I would like to venture a guess at the question above about how the M’s ARE good, and winning games:

    Awesomeness of:
    Green, Sherrill, Putz

    Crappiness of:
    White, Reitsma, Starting Pitching

    The mariners X-WL (expected win loss percentage based on runs scored and allowed) is much worse than NYY, CLE, DET, LAA. All of those teams are scoring a lot more than they allow.

    The Mariners top relievers are being played for innings 7-9 (or 10+) when the M’s have small leads and are playing absurdly well. The M’s are losing blowouts and winning close games. They are winning almost every close game. This is why losing those 1 run games at Texas was so discomforting.

    The spread between the M’s best and worst relievers is so high: they are allowing next to no runs in close games and when the M’s are losing when the starters go out they put in crap like Reitsma and the other team starts batting practice.

    The question is whether this level of bullplen play is sustainable. Granted Putz is amazing but what is he 33 for 35 saves right now? ridiculous. There aren’t any position players or starting pitchers that are playing at unsustainable levels (this season, not this week Raul). The only thing I see that could cause the Mariners to come crashing to earth is mortal performances from putz, sherrill, green, and co.

    The trick is to improve other elements in the mean time. Can Betancourt get a few less throwing errors? I think so. Can the starters allow a few less runs yeah.

    IMO we need our competitors to do some choking. I think if the yanks lose 4-5 straight at any point between now and october they will self destruct because those are some awful personalities.

  105. msb on August 9th, 2007 2:30 pm

    maybe Parrish has mad baking skillz. You know how some fresh baked cookies can just make the whole day better.

  106. pmccollum on August 9th, 2007 2:30 pm

    [deleted, Vidro - yes, even jokes about Turbo are off limits in the Vidro-free zone]

  107. Seth on August 9th, 2007 2:33 pm

    Lowe’s only gotten 2 2/3 innings since he game up July 24th. That’s about an inning a week. He can’t get back into shape with that little amount of work.

    He’ll go back down to AAA, get back on track, come back September 1st hopefully with the confidence and command to be yet another kickass guy out of the pen.

    Meanwhile, they have Parrish if they need somebody to mop-up, and they lose basically nothing.

    Guys, I know you’re getting hammered by the “c*******y” crowd, but there’s so much kneejerk negativity in your posts that I understand why people think you’re just anti-everything.

    This move makes sense–Lowe gets work, comes back, happy times, perhaps continued good luck and sneaking into the playoffs and who knows??? YAY!! GO M’S!

  108. Dave on August 9th, 2007 2:39 pm

    but there’s so much kneejerk negativity in your posts that I understand why people think you’re just anti-everything.

    Yea, man, knee-jerk negativity. We’ve been so disastrously wrong about everything.

    Oh wait… we haven’t.

  109. pmccollum on August 9th, 2007 2:39 pm

    Fair enough, I like the rules even if they hamper my ability to mock a sad waste of (a lot of) space.

    Have the Mariners learned nothing from White, Reitsma, or Jason Davis? Really John-freaking-Parrish? They should be paying other teams to let Parrish pitch to the Ms.

  110. Paseman on August 9th, 2007 2:46 pm

    Parrish will be a non factor. You think McLaren would use him in a high pressure situation when he barely trusts Green and Sherrill in the 8th? The move allows Lowe to regain his form and get work, and we don’t have to take someone out of the already depleted Rainiers pen. Now on to a question about the actual game they will play tonight. With someone like Cabrera on the mound, wouldn’t it make more sense to keep someone like Raul and Vidro in the lineup as they can work a count, whereas someone who likes to hack away like Jones wouldn’t be a good matchup for a pitcher who couldn’t find the strike zone with GPS?

  111. wallywwu on August 9th, 2007 2:47 pm

    Not sure why everybody is killing Bavasi for this trade, you give up nothing, give Mark Lowe a chance to get more innings, and maybe this guy can be a lefty specialist freeing up Sherrill to pitch more… probably not, but who knows. Now, if he goes and sucks and McLaren keeps throwing him out there, then you have a problem. Lets just wait and see.

  112. CaptainPoopy on August 9th, 2007 2:48 pm

    I read on another blog that KJR said that Bavasi was in line for a contract extension. An truth to that?

  113. CaptainPoopy on August 9th, 2007 2:49 pm

    110-

    He used Reitsma in those high-pressure situations.

  114. marc w on August 9th, 2007 2:49 pm

    “Cabrera > Parrish”

    Why? Is it just based on his K:BB, or more of a skillset argument?

    Parrish is a high K, high GB guy, which isn’t exactly the worst thing in the world. He can’t hit the broad side of a barn, but then, neither could Sean Green a few months ago. I think the odds that he’s as ‘fixable’ as Green are low, but it’s not *terrible* to try. It’s not good, I’ll admit that, but man this could’ve been worse. i suppose it still can be, pending the PTBNL, but that’s another issue.
    Seriously – Parrish has Cabrera beat by about 1 run in FIP (not in xFIP, but you’ve given some good arguments why xFIP doesn’t hold so well for *relievers*). What am I missing that would explain why Cabrera is better? I mean, Cabrera isn’t exactly Carlos Silva out there – so is some of this your skepticism that Parrish can maintain his low HR/FB ratio?

  115. Dave on August 9th, 2007 2:52 pm

    Cabrera’s got a monster arm. He throws a legit 95-98 and can absolutely blow guys away. His command is a problem and he’s not the brightest guy around, but if you’re going to try to fix someone, I vote for fixing the guy with big time velocity and a long track record of blowing hitters away.

  116. Paseman on August 9th, 2007 2:54 pm

    113 – True, but Reitsma did have a little bit better track record then Parrish, and we know McLaren’s stance on playing guys he thinks will do well in a spot regardless of what has happened. I just think this trade is being hyped too much, as I don’t see Parrish really being anything but a mop up guy, and as many have said, Lowe gettin more work is never a bad thing. and it does leave the O’s bullpen a guy short tonight, so that may play in our favor (even if it might have been better for him to pitch to us then not to)

  117. pmccollum on August 9th, 2007 2:57 pm

    115 – A hard thrower with no command who “pitches stupid?”

    I agree that Cabrera is better than Parrish, but I guess the team decided to recreate the Matt Thornton experiment rather than the Gil Meche experience.

  118. darrylzero on August 9th, 2007 3:02 pm

    I think the funniest thing about all this is how quickly they rushed Lowe up to the majors to begin with. It seems really strange that they were so eager to get him up and now can’t find room for him to pitch. I mean, he had that one bad game, but… I don’t know, maybe it was more than that, but this all seems very strange to me.

  119. marc w on August 9th, 2007 3:05 pm

    That’s fair Dave. To me, *all things being equal* I might rather tinker with the LHP with good (not great like Cabrera) K rates, who gets grounders and has poor command, but it’s something of a toss up.

    Of course, in this situation, all things are not equal, so…yeah.

    Someone’ll take a chance on Cabrera and we’ll see if a change of scenery is what he needed.

  120. geo on August 9th, 2007 3:13 pm

    #104 Wow, thanks a lot for your thoughtful response. You voiced a lot of things I’ve been sort of thinking. Especially “The Mariners top relievers are being played for innings 7-9 (or 10+) when the M’s have small leads and are playing absurdly well. The M’s are losing blowouts and winning close games. They are winning almost every close game. This is why losing those 1 run games at Texas was so discomforting.”

    The pattern of getting blown out and winning by small margins throws the whole run differential calculation out of whack. Perhaps over a long period of time it might correct itself (either the M’s score more runs or lose more games) but the closer we get to the finish line the less likely the odds of a correction in either direction. Could just be the soft underbelly of the RS/RA assumption.

    As for the Yanks, I’m not buying it until they show it against good teams and not just as the schoolyard bullies. That would be over the next few weeks because their September is very soft.

  121. davepaisley on August 9th, 2007 3:13 pm

    Wow, lineups out

    Jones in LF, Vidro 2B, Ral DH, Ben 1B

  122. Crooklyn Banks on August 9th, 2007 3:13 pm

    Vidro is playing at 2B today, HoRam chances at winning just got better.

  123. DAMellen on August 9th, 2007 3:14 pm

    Jones is starting today! Playing left and batting seventh. WOO!

  124. davepaisley on August 9th, 2007 3:18 pm

    Re: Lowe – have you guys seen what the fix for his elbow was?

    Based on a chat he had with Softy on KJR a couple of weeks ago:

    Lacking cartilage, and with bone rubbing on bone, they drilled into his bone to let bone marrow leak out and create scar tissue that is now pseudo-cartilage.

    Honestly, it doesn’t sound like much of a solution in a high stress location. So I’d be surprised if Lowe holds up over the long run.

  125. gwangung on August 9th, 2007 3:20 pm

    Vidro is playing at 2B today, HoRam chances at winning just got better.

    Given that HoRam’s gonna get hammered yet again on the road, yeah….Vidro’s not going to get a lot of balls…

  126. Max Power on August 9th, 2007 3:24 pm

    It would have been better if they had started Bloomquist at 2b, so that all of the infielders would have names that started with the letter B. That would be cool – killer B’s and whatnot.

  127. msb on August 9th, 2007 3:25 pm

    Stone updates the trade and the plans for Lowe

    re: Lowe, LLJeff had a long ramble on the type of surgery last year, and Baker talked about it with Lowe earlier this month

  128. terry on August 9th, 2007 3:25 pm

    People are really being hard on Parrish… he’s two years removed from TJ surgery so you know he’s a character guy and he’s got make ‘em miss ability with solid ground ball tendencies….I think that all gets lost by focusing on his slight issues with command (he’s only had one year in the majors where he’s walked more batters than he struck out)….

  129. msb on August 9th, 2007 3:26 pm

    link for Baker on Lowe

  130. msb on August 9th, 2007 3:28 pm

    hey, Mac says Parrish was great the first month of the season! all right then!

    he also said they are still scouring the wires for a pitcher…

  131. DAMellen on August 9th, 2007 3:29 pm

    Dave,
    I saw you say much higher up in this post that you thought there was very little chance of Ichiro, Jones, and Balentien being our starting outfield next year. Why is that? Is our organization really that committed to Jose Guillen? Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been pretty happy with Guillen’s performance this year, but why wouldn’t we bring in Balentien to replace him next year? Do you expect us to trade him or do you think we’ll make him a pinch hitter?

  132. Sammy on August 9th, 2007 3:30 pm

    124. Jeff over at Lookout Landing wrote a few posts examining the procedure. It’s basically the same procedure that Amare Stoudemire had done on his knee two years ago. And, no, you’re right, it’s probably not going to hold up, although the fact that he’s already back and pitching at any level is more than I had expected. The fact that he’s back to being effective at all is the most we could have hoped for; I’d consider us extremely lucky if his career isn’t over by the end of next year.

    Although, hey, what the hell do I know about unprecedented microfracture surgery. Maybe he plays for the next 10 years. Who knows.

  133. terry on August 9th, 2007 3:30 pm

    #115: I’m in….send ‘em two Sebastian Bouchers for Cabrera….

  134. Teej on August 9th, 2007 3:30 pm

    131: Bavasi said there was no chance. Dave wrote about it a couple of days ago.

  135. Ralph Malph on August 9th, 2007 3:31 pm

    128 — slight issues with command

    Year IP BB
    2000 36 35
    2001 22 17
    2003 23 8 [Yay!]
    2004 78 55
    2005 17 17
    2007 41 33

    I don’t think “slight” is the right word.

  136. lailaihei on August 9th, 2007 3:31 pm

    Lopez at 2B and I think we have a lineup we can agree with.
    Lopez defense+offense > Turbo’s defense+offense
    And I can only see Lopez’s batting numbers going up, and Vidro’s going down.

  137. Ralph Malph on August 9th, 2007 3:33 pm

    The other thing people are ignoring with Parrish is that he’s on a $575K contract. That means they’re on the hook for about $200K for the rest of the season, along with Boucher and whoever the PTBNL is. If they just want a roster filler for the back of the bullpen, and they don’t think there’s anybody available in Tacoma, why not just scour the waiver wires? This makes no sense.

    Of course it could have been worse; they could have picked up Joel Pineiro (I’m curious to see if he bats 8th again tonight; gotta love Tony LaRussa).

  138. DAMellen on August 9th, 2007 3:34 pm

    134
    Really? I guess I missed that article. Any idea what it was called? I’d like to take a look.

  139. Teej on August 9th, 2007 3:38 pm

    138: It was the recap of the USSM/LL event. Scroll down the main page. It’s called “Weekend in Seattle roundup.”

  140. HamNasty on August 9th, 2007 3:42 pm

    129- Good article, thanks for the link.

  141. terry on August 9th, 2007 3:48 pm

    #135: Don’t be a hata….

  142. Slippery Elmer on August 9th, 2007 3:52 pm

    Per Lee Pelekoudas, via Shannon Drayer on the pregame show today:

    The Parrish move was made because Mark Lowe’s arm is not strong enough for him to pitch “back to back” games. Parrish is experienced, and can get both righties and lefties out. He strengthens the bullpen, and he can pitch back to back games.

    Parrish reports his health is good, and that it’s “kinda weird” to be on the M’s, facing the O’s. He “just go[es] after” hitters. He’s “still waiting for [his] shoes to arrive.”

  143. Ralph Malph on August 9th, 2007 3:57 pm

    141 – I’m not being a “hata” (whatever that is), I’m stating facts.

  144. Slippery Elmer on August 9th, 2007 3:59 pm

    I think #141 was intended as a tongue-in-cheek statement.

  145. Lauren, token chick on August 9th, 2007 4:01 pm

    Waitasec, having Tommy John surgery makes someone a “character guy”? Perhaps there could be a requirement in Congress.

  146. Notor on August 9th, 2007 4:10 pm

    Vidro at second? Disaster waiting to happen.

    But Jones and Broussard at least. Hope they both break out this game.

  147. John in L.A. on August 9th, 2007 4:28 pm

    I find it interesting, sometimes, to read the comments in reverse order just to try and judge the earlier comments just by how they are characterized by the later comments.

    And it’s usually pretty revealing.

    For instance, in this thread, just by reading those defending the trade, you would have thought that Dave had railed and ranted like a mad dog over the moves… instead of what he actually said, which was pretty mild and reasoned.

    Funny stuff.

    Dave: “Meh.”

    Random poster: “I disagree that this is the worst move in the history of baseball.”

  148. terry on August 9th, 2007 4:46 pm

    I think we’d be fine in congress by simply making those with lobotomies ineligible to serve…..

  149. Matt A on August 9th, 2007 7:12 pm

    What are the chances Balentien gets some playing time in september? mor starts next year? I dont see any reason why not if Guillen doesnt come back.

  150. Wishhiker on August 9th, 2007 7:13 pm

    Santana is a FA after this year…RP Julio Santana!!

    I don’t much like anything SP-wise in this years FA class, until I start looking at Japanese players who are FA’s…

    RHSP Koji Uehara (career K/BB 6.66in his 8 year Japanese career he’s average a BB every 7.5 innings (1.19 BB/9). Uehara has two types of splitters, a cut fastball, a slider, an 88-90 mph fastball with late movement and a forkball, which is almost unhittable. He possesses good command and believes that to walk a batter is worse than allow a base hit. Years ago was offered a contract with LAAofA when they were just AA but decided to stay in Japan. He’s been trying to get posted to MLB teams since the end of 2004. Has links through friendship to NYY (Clemens if he’s still there, Matsui)

    Also Kenshin Kawakami. I don’t know much about either of these pitchers, just looking at solid stats.

  151. Notor on August 9th, 2007 9:11 pm

    [re-sign]

  152. earinc on August 9th, 2007 10:24 pm

    I guess this qualifies as “in Other News”…

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/08/09/spiezio.suspension.ap/index.html

    Was there ever a bigger d#@k in M’s history?

  153. gopilots70 on August 10th, 2007 1:28 am

    I,too, could not understand the pickup of Parrish. I have seen him get shelled many times on TV. But looking at his stats this year, I see that the only teams he has had success against are Chicago and Minnesota. Low and behold, the M’s next 12 games are against these two teams. The numbers: 6.2 innings pitched; 7 hits, 1 run and 10 K’s. Perhaps a couple of good weeks until Lowe is ready to go more frequently.

  154. Wishhiker on August 10th, 2007 1:46 pm

    Nice stat pick gopilots…That’s interesting.

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.