Game 117, Twins at Mariners
DMZ · August 14, 2007 at 6:32 pm · Filed Under Game Threads
Garza v Ramirez. 7:05.
You want the lineup? Why, you already know what’s coming:
CF-L Ichiro
DH-B Vidro
RF-R Guillen
LF-L Ibanez
3B-R Beltre
1B-R Sexson
C-R Johjima
2B-R Lopez
SS-R Betancourt
BLEEAAAAHGHHGHGHGGGGGG
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Is that a puke or a pee stain on the lineup card?
*Head Explodes*
On the bright side, yesterday’s performance didn’t cause McLaren to move Richie up in the order.
But I suppose it’s possible he believes batting sixth was somehow relevant.
At least Lopez is in the field…
Hey, I’m looking for a bright side here.
Yup no surprises. On a side note Angels lose and we have the mighty Horacio on the mound. Yaaaaay!! Doesn’t sound too promising, but beating the Twins on Santana day was unexpected so I guess I’ll just expect the unexpected with this game as well.
I hate the “Rah rah” attitude from the FSN network!
At least we are facing Bad Luck Garza. He K’s 8.5 per 9 with a 3:1 K:BB ratio with 7ER over 37IP and is 1-3. 2 of those losses are 0-1, one of them came on a unearned run. Let’s hope that small sample size streak continues 1 more game.
Be honest. Who is going to watch the game on gamecast on a laptop so you can play Madden? I mean, Garza / Horam is not exactly Felix / Johan.
I dislike Bill Krueger with a passion. Absolutely strongly dislike!
Pregame show interview, McLaren said that the reason Ritchie hit on the last road trip was because he knew he wouldn’t get boo’d.
Yes, fans, it is all our fault that Sexson is the second worst firstbaseman in the AL. We must have really been on him in April and July. Oh, if only we cheered whenever he went 0 for 4.
Sexson OPS by month this year:
.606
.737
.816
.583
.715 (only 28 AB’s)
Angels lost already, Yankees are getting smashed, this wold be the perfect opportunity to make up some ground. Broussard should be starting….let’s just hope Ramirez can put up a quality start….Garza is not a bad pitcher.
Should we be worried about signing Aumont yet?
You never know, as terrible as HoRam is, he is 6-0 at home. Lets cross our fingers that trend continues…and give him plenty of run support.
perfect night for us so far. yankees, angels and boston all losing.
McLaren should be managing the Orwells. Less is more, up is down . . .
And on a positive note, the Orioles are currently pounding the Yankees into a smudge, 12 zip.
Go O’s!
15 – and thats from a team that the M’s pounded 3 games straight. You know what that means.
I can’t get upset about tonight’s line-up. It’s like getting turned down when asking Jessica Alba for a date. Really, we had to know this was coming, right, and if we didn’t, we’re idiots. Ibanez is the reigning player of the week, Vidro is hitting .400 since the all-star break, and Sexson hit a walk -off home run last night. Clearly, all three are going to play for the foreseeable future. Adam Jones might as well take up painting.
Also, for fun and enjoyment, Rondell White has an OPS+ of 5 so far this year. 5! On a scale where 100 is average. It’s only 47 at-bats, but still, an OPS+ of 5! It takes some kind of suck to make Nick Punto not the worst guy in the line-up.
That’s funny. Jessica has never turned me down when I asked her for a date. You must be doing something wrong.
Day late and a dollar short but:
Can Jones still play infield? I mean if McLaren is so h*ll bent (is h*ll considered a naughty word here?) on keeping Vidro’s bat in the lineup instead of:
DH Ibanez
2B Vidro
LF Jones
go with:
DH Vidro
2B Jones
LF Ibanez
Not a great defense but anything is better than putting the worst defender on the team on the field, and Jones’ bat easily trumps Lopez.
Vidro shouldn’t even be allowed to enter the park with a glove
No – Jones is an outfielder now.
I must thank Horacio Ramirez, I’m way too upset that he’s still in the rotation to even get worked up about the same worthless lineup Mac’s been trotting out since he took over. Good work Ho-Ram.
I was going to say that two of the Twins’ three best hitters are lefties so at least that’s going in Ho’s favor, but then I realized crap is still crap regardless of which hand you throw it from.
Let’s hope the Twins get themselves out enough tonight to make Ho look like a reasonable pitcher. Didn’t they used to be a fairly good offense? What happened? Worst slugging percentage in the AL. Ouch.
Also, Matt Garza is awesome. I’m excited to watch him pitch.
Nothing Ramirez can do today to disappoint me, so the only way is up with him.
23 – pretty much if you make expectations low, like tonight’s line up and pitcher, then you will only feel good if they preform better than you expect.
Garza Express be damned! Win, M’s, win!
23 – o yea, and i forgot to add, if they do let you down, you already know why so you aren’t so dissapointed.
Hey, the immortal Al Reyes is attempting to save the 1-0 game for the Rays against the Bosox.
I pin my hopes on long relief for tonight, no matter how bad the Twins offense is.
24/26
Exactly.
27 – And failing
HoRam 6 2/3IP 2ER! I am calling it, put it in the books.
Bosox just tied it in the 9th.
Looking at the lineup, I actually asked out loud if Box of Rocks was doing the daily lineups for McLaren.
I enjoy this site – but isn’t it funny that day after day, post after post most of the comments include complaining about this line-up, complaining about this player or that player, complaining about the front office, throwing out enough stats to make an engineer blow a gasket….
…Yet, here we are on Aug. 14 and OUR SEATTLE MARINERS, the team many of us have followed since we were kids int he early 80′s, the team that has been one of the worst in baseball for 3 straight years, HAS THE THIRD BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL!!!
Better than the Yankees, better than Detroit, better than Cleveland, better than the Mets, better than the Braves and on the heels of the Angels.
Is there any way we can be positive for a change instead of always bitching about Jones not being in the lineup or Vidro playing second once a week?
It’s a marathon not a sprint. Micromanaging every single decision this team makes has cost many of you to lose sight in the fact that this year has been incredible. A team not expected to do jack this season is competing with the big boys, enjoy it.
I know we all love to complain about moves. I just hope you are enjoying this ride. This incredible journey the team is taking us on this year after 3 years of squat.
Did Dave just say Horacio has the magic touch at home? That seems like a somewhat grandiose term for sucking less.
I have no need for a $6,000 Ricoh printer, but Lisa Loeb’s voice makes me want to try to fit one in my 400 square foot apartment.
Hey, awesome, it’s the I’m A Better Fan Than You lecture. Hadn’t gotten one of those in about 12 hours. Thanks for swinging by.
35 – doesn’t FSN have to make positive spins on players?
35 – doesn’t FSN have to make positive spins on players?
34 – Being a relative USSM neophyte myself, I still have read enough here to understand, and there is a reason all these people come back. It’s easy to sit and root for anything blindly, but the point is to look for ways for the Mariners to make improvements. If you have followed the team, you should know that, despite their success, this is not THE BEST TEAM possible given the circumstances, and most here look for ways to make the M’s even better. But yes, I certainly do enjoy the success. Just tell me you feel completely without worry when HoRam steps to the mound
#34:
The reason we get so uppity over these movies is because this team is walking a very fine line between contending and falling out of the race. Every decision matters. We’re thrilled, but it’s infuriating to see little advantages that we need to stay competetive being tossed aside.
If we were 15 out no one would really care that much.
35,
Take away a few ERA points and Ramirez is pitching 4.00
Woah, 34. Complaining is what being a Seattlite is all about and questioning decisions is what being a sports fan is all about so being a Seattle sports fan involves a lot of negative energy. It’s just the way we roll.
Complaining is not incompatible with “enjoying the ride.” You enjoy it your way, I’ll enjoy it mine. There’s nothing duller than everything going right with nothing to complain about. I’d hate to follow a team that was perfect in every way. The only thing that would make that experience worse would be some jerk trying to tell me how I’m supposed to feel about it.
Though at least that would give me something to bitch about, I guess. Fortunately, with this team I have plenty of other things.
To everyone NOT sharing the sentiment of #34.
Have you ever seen a team with so much success when you get an uneasy feeling with every one of your starters? (Yes, I love watching Felix, but he is still volatile to the point of uncertainty)
Well that didn’t work did it.
Anyhow Lefebvre, since you insist, tonight I’m going to try my damndest to love McLaren, Vidro, et al.
That’s Our HoRam!
34:
> I enjoy this site
Um no, you obviously don’t.
Was that the magic touch?
Here we go.
Tha magic touch kept it in the park.
Yes, HoRam uses his magic touch to give the opposing team the Ray of Hope before crushing their spirits, thereby increasing the gut punch effect.
Maybe it’s time to retire the “all USSM fans do is complain” discussion? It seems like it comees up at least once per thread.
Yes, all USSM fans do is complain. Whatever. Get over it.
46: I’m with you. So many nailbiters this year I’m down to the second knuckle on three fingers.
And on a different note completely, RIP Phil Rizzuto..
Boston comes back to beat Reyes in the bottom of the ninth.
If this kind of post is prohibited here, I’m sure it will be deleted – but if it’s allowed here’s the deal. I bought 4 tickets to tomorrow’s game but am only using two of them. They’re great seats – Section 124, Row 9 (right behind the M’s dugout). Sorry that I can’t afford to give them away, but I’ll offer them to any USSM reader who wants them for face value ($40/per). Of course you’ll have to sit next to my daughter and me during the game. Email me at fishiam@yahoo.com if interested.
I’m tired of these posts saying the USSM fans complain all the time.
Hmmm. Optimism fading….
A Twin killing of Twins..
Twin killing
Nice magic touch there
Ho-Ram donks his way through another bleak inning at home.
Just what the doctor ordered? Really, because I specifically asked the doctor to order labrum surgery for HoRam.
63: The magic donk?
Man, why didn’t we get Al Reyes? He and Parrish would make a great L-R tandem. And we could save them for finishing off HoRam starts.
Fishiam -
Stubhub.com
Go there, and be merry. I’m sure you’ll have no problem selling them there.
You guys can make excuses for the complaining and questioning, but I don’t think any of those excuses are valid. That’s because you don’t need an excuse. Disecting and debating sports is fun. In fact, I think it’s the funnest part of sports. Watching is great, but I like to talk. Negative, positive, whatever. Sports talk is fun.
Wow. I’m going out in a while, so I took a quick nap after getting home from work… now I’m looking at the Angels and Yankees scores. What a beyootiful dream!
I definitely understand this team has it’s issues, just like every other team. I just wish we could get over the same comments every day complaining about the line-up. It’s obviously not going to change.
Dave – I hope that comment wasn’t toward me. I never said anything about comparing who’s a bigger fan. We’re all fans or else we wouldn’t come to your site and you wouldn’t spend hours upon hours working on it. But even you must get tired of constantly typing and reading about the same issue over and over:
* Jones should be called up/Jones should play every day
* Vidro is terrible he should be a reserve
* Sexson should platoon
* Ibanez should DH
These are all valid points that have been discussed at length. I’m just curious if there is something else to talk about and try to actually enjoy the season.
64: Is that a joke or do you think HoRam might actually be injured again?
57 – we need ages of course.
At least Dave didn’t mention a magic badonkadonk. I’m excited to see how the bottom of the order swings against Garza. He’s filthy, so it would be good to see Lopez and Yuni make some good contact.
Horam is lucky, i can tell this might be a longgggg game.
70… how about Vidro shouldn’t play 2B?
It was a joke what the doctor really ordered was a breast reduction for Vidro.
58,
Whether they do or not, it’s almost never worthwhile to argue about it. The regulars all understand that this site is about looking at the stats and criticizing the management accordingly. If that’s how USSM fans choose to enjoy the game, no big deal, right?
Sure enough, someone gets grumpy over it every night. I just don’t see what the point is– There’s more than one Mariners blog out there.
Al Reyes manages to blow a 1-0 9th inning lead in Fenway, raising his ERA to 4.64 I like how we didn’t trade Clement for him.
Everyone needs to chill.
Dave and DMZ are gonna have to go all Deadspin on us, make commenters audition for the privlige and only let the best in.
Its a great, GREAT site those guys have here. It also seems to be growing at an insane rate. Lets all keep our heads and keep it the best M’s blog on the planet!
Speaking of Vidro and his feminine qualities: he’s got some mighty sculpted eyebrows. He must spend some time in drag.
Punto makes so many ridiculous defensive plays. Too bad he doesnt hit
70- I completely agree with you. I love this site but it feels like every post has a negative spin to it. I say just hop on for the ride, start booing the other team not ours, and enjoy the playoffs to come
Dave, The Mariners are 16 games over .500 and doing much more than anyone expected. If they gave the crew here at ussmariner the opportunity to do the line up every night, where would the mariners realistically be?
I just wish we could get over the same comments every day complaining about the line-up. It’s obviously not going to change.
I just wish we could get over the same comments every day complaining about people complaining about the lineup, or Vidro, or Ibanez, or whatever.
The gameday tracker is about 1-2 mph faster than the jugs gun…
If you think “every post has a negative spin on it” you haven’t been reading long. You know, like the POST JUST BEFORE THIS. FUCK.
[shift keys are located on the left and right of your keyboard. Also, there should be a dictionary utility on your computer somewhere.]
80 – I could actually picture that. lol.
87: I like Vidro hitting second. If Ichiro gets on base (often), there’s like a great chance that anything he hits on the ground he kills it with a double play.
Its funny DMZ. You even explain the thing in the post. I mean, It’s not gonna change. We know its just gonna be “McLaren being McLaren.” Come on guys. All of us know that Vidro shouldn’t own a glove. That Ibanez is not a cleanup hitter. That WFB and #3 have NO BUSINESS in the same infield together. WE GET IT.
Personally, I’m going to start ignoring those posts…
86… I said it feels like-not is. Read buddy.
88: There are moments when a vivid imagination is a curse..
Here is a post with a positive spin. The yankees got their asses whooped, the Angels lost, and if you close your eyes for 10 seconds you wont notice another baserunner for HoRam
I’m not your buddy.
The Ms would be at least 45 games over .500 in that hypothetical….
Where’s the USSM crack security team when we need them? We gotta couple of live ones in here tonight!
No that was the magic touch.
.. on the upside, we’re in line for a triple play..
Do you complain that Geoff Baker writes the same recap of the game in the Seattle Times everyday? All he does is provide the story of what happened, some quotes from the people involved, and a short summary of the day’s events. Why doesn’t he ever mix it up?
The answer, obviously, is that his job is to be a beat writer. The whole point of his job is to write that story everyday.
USSM is, essentially, the place people have to discuss their analytical opinions of the team and evaluate what we’re rooting for. If people want rah-rah life-is-awesome commentary, there are hundreds of places to go. If they want to talk about optimal line-up construction or the value of defense, they have us and lookoutlanding.
You don’t ask Geoff Baker to write dissertations on run values. Just the same, you shouldn’t expect us to take on a cheerleader role and ignore the flaws with the team.
Nice to know that we can count on Rondell White!
The Twinkies have a backup catcher as their DH. Why don’t we try to work Burke into a DH spot once in a while?
Damnit I lost my feed.
I wish McLaren would get over the same lineup every day
Also, no one listened to MY diatribe about how to be a better contrarian. So most of USSM should therefore feel free to continue being analytic fans.
Ugh. HoRam.
That’s the problem with the internet; Everyone can say whatever the hell they want even if it’s been said a million times before and their comment adds nothing to the discussion. That’s why I like this site though, because opinions tend to be backed up with evidence and good logic….most of the time.
Take a look at the schedules people; September is going to be hell for us, so there’s good reason to be critical of boneheaded moves now while we’re playing easy teams.
It’s going to be very hard to turn September into even an above .500 month for us. A lot of fans here are negative because they realize that despite being 16 over we really aren’t in a very good position until we’ve got a good lead over the Angels, and there are obvious upgrades that can be made by repositioning men currently on the roster.
100 posts. 7 outs. We’re on pace for 728. That would be a record.
Maybe I won’t be turning Madden on after all… hmmmmmmmm….. this place is kinda electric tonight.
#91
Haven’t I seen you trolling elsewhere? Was in the FoxSports blogs you were harassing?
And yay HoRam. Way to give up a run. At least this isn’t (yet) as painful as the game I watched you pitch against the Red Sox two weeks ago.
You want some negativity?! I HATE PEARL JAM! There, I’ve said it!
Oops. Sorry, v.
Adam Jones would have caught that
Gives up a lot of hits when he’s pitching so the walks hurt more. That almost sounded negative, but somehow, coming from our announcers, it wasn’t.
By the way, David Wells is sitting at home right now. Still available. Still free.
Excessive Penalty Month, perhaps?
101 – I love it when teams who don’t have an obvious DH use the position that way.
I think it is time for that mound visit where they remind Horacio he is at home in seattle.
108.
GASP!!!!!!! Blasphemy! You’re probably a Nickelback fan, aren’t you?
Bring him some Rally Clams from Ivar’s…only in SEATTLE!
Oops. Sorry, v.
Now that was funny…
For fucks sake….
It the nature of the game for fans to bitch and moan over how their favorite team is being managed regardless of whether they’re winning or not. Trust me you don’t think Boston, Anaheim, Detroit, and even Cleveland fans are bitching about something right now?
If HoRam keeps pitching like this, I’ll be playing Madden by the fourth.
I’m getting physically ill. BP tonight.
I hope there are 6 runs scored this inning so that HoRam gets taken out, the management realizes his home success is a fluke, and we get 8 innings to make up the difference.
Nickelback? I think my Mariners fandom is causing you to mistake me for someone with no taste. Either that, or someone in high school.
Fuckin’ A. Or, more specifically, fuckin’ H.
David Wells and his 4.50 career ERA would look so great in our park tonight. Much better than soon-to-be-pitching Ryan Rowland-Smith is going to look.
#111– how long does it take to fly in from Michigan?
Does anyone else think Rally(insert any food type here) is so moronic, so assine that one can’t even get how it started?
I’m at a complete loss and really, not looking for an explanation…just complaining.
You hate Pearl Jam? How can you hate Pearl Jam? Eddie Vedder’s powerful voice, Mike McCready’s riveting guitar, Stone Gossard’s competent bass work. They’re like the perfect band.
HoRam’s winning percentage is 13 points higher than Felix’s
#126
At least we don’t have the Rally Monkey.
107- Sorry, your mistaking me for someone else in the Seahawks Nation. Positive of this inning, at least the bullpen will get some work tonight.
I couldn’t think of any other circumstances as to why any Seattleite would not be a PJ fan. Only to have a taste in music THAT BAD. Hope you do not take offense…
Well I guess if you take away a couple innings Horacio’s throwing a great game!
Rally clams… awesome. I think it might be time to deliver some week-old rally clams to the mound. Although I grudgingly applaud getting the third out, finally.
So, predictions on how long HoRam will be in the game?
127. Good work. Except Stone also plays guitar, Jeff Ament plays bass. But thanks for fighting the good fight against Lauren, token Candlebox fan.
Rowland-Smith is looking great as far as I’m concerned. Although of course I’d rather see him in the pen with Wells on the mound.
143: HoRam’s suck percentage is 600 points higher than Felix.
Oh God, just nuke the comments already.
127 – Powerful, riveting, competent?
Sounds like the 737 production line in Renton.
Wait, that’s why their last album sounded like that…
They’re like the perfect band.
By which you mean they play instruments?
Storyville
Jeff Buckley
Big Head Todd
While not perfect, much closer.
127- Jeff Ament plays the bass in PJ. Get your facts straight.
Nice patience by Beltre.
Back on topic, guys or DMZ and Dave’s heads are gonna explode.
What are the odds richie gets booed if he strikes out?
Any bets on whether Sexson gets booed when he srikes out here?
Stop with the grunge band chatter before I go all Tad on every last one of you.
Pearl Jam is the greatest band ever. Matt Cameron is God On Drums.
Ho Ramirez is a piece of crap.
I like to state the painfully obvious.
Oh look, strikes out with no boos.
Beltre and patience don’t go together nowadays.
I really hope he doesn’t. He needs fans cheering him on after how he has played the past few days. Sometimes all it takes to make you relax is a few cheers, at other times, a few boo’s can keep you going down the same track.
144..lol. you win
Now there’s the Richie I remember.
No boos, nice. Of course, unless Richie can hit a 6 run homer, I think the crowd realizes that HoRam is making this losing cause early.
My friends and I (engineering students) have decided that Richie Sexson is a binary function. 1 (long deep drive) or 0 (K). Unfortunately, p(0) >> p(1)
Herein lies the frustration for me…. this is a flawed roster-the Ms are clearly the worst team on paper of the AL teams in the playoff chase. Based upon talent, the Ms would seem to have the lowest margin of error. Knowing this, it is maddening to watch the Ms continually fail to do things that could increase their margin of error and to know their decisions are based upon rationales that have largely been discredited by sabermetrics….
Did anyone else catch the radio pregame show? Rick Rizzs referred to Sims as Dave Simmons, and Sims got a little sarcastic about it. Of course, Rico laughed it off–far too forcedly–and claimed he was looking at something else when he said it, but I’ll bet Sims is still grumbling to himself about his broadcast partner of six months still not knowing his name. The all-important “booth chemistry” is bound to suffer because of this incident.
I pine for the days when we had hitters that took pitches and had OBP’s near .400. Remember yesteryear when Edgar and Olerud were in the lineup?
Damnit, Vitalogist. I looked it up and you’re right. How is it that I’ve spent my whole life as a Pearl Jam fan and always thought Stone played bass? I feel like my entire life is a lie.
although Mac says he could be the emergency infielder if needed …
Would you just fall on them, with your mighty girth?
#156
Now you know how all those Milli Vanilli fans felt.
I don’t remember the last time Yuni got to a ball that I didn’t expect him to. His range has really taken a step back this year.
Remember, Stone and Jeff have been together for like 25 years – the Green River days with Mark Arm and Steve Turner… the the whole Love Bone Earth Affair with (RIP) Andy Wood. They are as responsible for the band as anyone (oh and Jack Irons, too). Ah. The good old days. If only Stone could pitch…
Jason Morneau?
Geez Niehaus…
“Jason” Morneau is the hitter now apparently. Dave is getting a little rough these days
I love the way broadcasters will denigrate the awarding of Gold Gloves when it suits (Palmiero! 28 games! DH!) but always haul it out to talk up a player (8 consecutive Gold Gloves!)
I better turn off the TV to beat the traffic.
#159
I wonder if that has anything to do with his throwing issues. Last time I was at Safeco, I just got the feeling that he was scared stiff that he was going to botch up his footwork and throw the ball into the stands.
Yuni is on the Jose Lopez diet, which lowers your range.
I was always operating under the assumption that anyone who would pay $4 for a cup of burnt-tasting coffee would also have bad taste in music….
What is this, a freakin’ Pearl Jam love fest? I’d rather talk about how Vidro is underrated.
*scowl*
95% of Kenji’s throws are to the SS side of the bag. His aim sucks.
Great slide by Hunter. He was like a pancake.
I was once elbowed by Mark Arm. He has very pointy elbows.
think that is because he filled out some this offseason?
Is Pearl Jam still a band above replacement value?
Interesting about Yuni. Last year, he made plays that he should not have gotten to. This year, he makes too many mistakes and flat out is late far too often.
I understood early season that he had been weightlifting, trying to add some power to his batting.
Bulky muscles on middle infielders doesn’t seem to be a good mix. I’ll take lean and quick anyday.
That, and he doesn’t throw very hard — if you’re going to do the quick release thing, you better be pinpoint.
159: I thought he’d get to that one too, but is it possible that our expectations of average fielding have changed with repetitive viewing of Yuni?
I think we’d all be fine with HoRam walking to the dugout during an inning. Feel free, buddy.
169: Yet he still throws out a decent % of would-be base stealers. Certainly better than last year. What do you attribute this increase to? Footwork? Arm strength?
I guess you don’t need much of an offense to shell Horacio Ramirez.
Ra-l gets off the bus to pick up the ball, making sure he has his transfer…
I’ll give Pearl Jam this: They’re better than U2. Oh, and the anti-Ticketmaster thing is nice too.
God, I’m just filled with a feeling of doom. At least pulling Ramirez now would change the aura of the game. What kind of numbers do we have on auras, Dave/DMZ?
I wish I was a mercenary contrarian or looked like Yuni…anything to wipe that scowl off her face.
Why does Cuddyer look so pumped about getting a hit off HoRam? everybody’s doing it is he that desperate to fit in?
Pearl Jam : King Felix :: Lauren’s Candlebox : HoRam
Yep, a run an inning … HoRam is pitching to his rate stats. If it wasn’t for about 7 poor pitches, he’d be pitching pretty well though.
How many line drives to left field is he going to allow?
It’s killing me that this is the guy we have pitching on a night when both the Angels and Yankees lost. This is a BIG game dammit!
sigh. you know, even if I didn’t know the Angels & Yankees lost, I’d still know the Angels & Yankees lost.
Adam Jones would’ve caught that!
(Or at least had it go off his glove …)
182
Cuddyer has been in an awful slump lately
I’m not saying Betancourt’s range is bad – it’s just not what it was two years ago, when he made so many WTF plays that I couldn’t stop grinning. He still seems to move pretty well, but it looks like he’s lost just enough of a step to not get those balls in the hole or up the middle anymore.
Dave and DMZ have been silent since the PJ talk started. My guess is that they are Nirvana Fans, and are just staying out of it…
Is “Candlebox” another crappy teenygrunger band? For God’s sake.
Dave -
I think everyone knows about Yuni’s struggles with his throwing. I hadn’t seen his decline in range. How bad is it?
UZR thinks Yuni could be as bad as a -14 defender over the course of this season….
#192– it’s either that or the latest teen girl decorating fad.
190. Yep, his stellar play when he first came up is hard to live up to year after year. I’ll take his glove over most today.
Yeah, Candlebox pretty much doesn’t even register on the top 10 of grunge bands from the 90s.
Is there any precedent for a 25 year old losing agility/speed? He is really 25 right? Could he be injured?
Where can I get current UZR data?
could we not have a no-hitter? please? a shut-out is bad enough.
Little Feat is the perfect band. End of discussion.
That little girl almost cost a double.
msb: or the latest fetish to flood the Internets!
All of Yuni’s -14 UZR is due to errors – if you look at the breakdown, it has his range as average. I think its a little better than that, but I think he’s clearly lost half a step or so.
Didn’t look to me like Yuni lost a step in legging out that double.
I am a huge Nirvana fan. I like Pearl Jam, too.
What do you guys think of Yuni often pushing for 2nd on close plays?
Dave, what do you attribute Yuni’s loss of a step to? He’s 25! It’s not like he’s supposed to lose a step from 23 to 25 is he?
Has he been lying on his Birth Certificate? Does he even have one?
Isn’t Yuni Cuban? Doesn’t that mean we have to add 15 or 20 years to his age?
yuni’s knees go flying everywhere when he is hustling. it doesn’t look very efficient, although I guess vladdy gets it done running like some sort of wounded forest creature
UZR data as of July 17th:
http://www.tangotiger.net/mgl
The file is available in that directory, along with an 03-07 UZR spreadsheet.
And it’s not that shocking that he’s declined somewhat – defense generally peaks at about age 24.
Nice piece of baserunning by Yuni to get to third there..
I’m so sick of Jose Lopez and those little give up swings he takes. It looks like he’s fooled on half his swings. He needs a new approach up there or something. I wish Vidro could play any defense at all.
sorry, half a step
Vidro-for-10
Does Ichiro’s line drive percentage vary much?, or are his “slumps” complete randomness?
#195-my parole officer says that’s mostly illegal.
206. Don’t know exactly how I had you pegged that way, I just did… hell I just impressed myself.
Aren’t we due for the “I came to a Grunge Band Blog, and a Mariners Blog broke out,” post?
191. maybe they logged onto ussseattlebands for a baseball discussion
You know, there aren’t many bulky folks in Cuba. And none of the players I saw on the field in Havana would be considered anything but slender. I wonder if Yuni took to the yanqui food, and the gym, just a little too much in the offseason. Either he grows into his new self, or he needs to slim down.
Speaking of which, considering all the Hub french fries Mark Arm stole from me in the mid-80s, he has no business having pointy anything. That’s what Yuni needs: the Rock Star diet.
207 & 212- You gotta love the hustle!!!!!
Also, here’s an alternate theory that I don’t totally buy, but I’m willing to concde is potentially possible.
Betancourt replaced Mike Morse at shortstop. Mike Morse is one of the worst defensive shortstops in recent history. It is possible – though I think unlikely – that watching Morse play for a few months reprogrammed us to expect every ball hit to the SS area to get through, and watching Betancourt was such a shocking adjustment that we didn’t correctly evaluate what we were seeing.
Not saying I believe it, but it’s possible, I think.
Alright, fine. I will be on the Vidro bandwagon for as long as it takes. We have a RUN.
We really need Ichiro to break out of his slump right soon.
no shutout..
213 – definitely. He definitely leans over the plate and sniffs at a lot of pitches. At least Vidro is hitting.
C’mon Guillen.. tie it up.
Way to go Turbo.
210 “wounded forest creature” That made me laugh
What ever happened to Mike Morse?
You know, just once, I want to hear someone rectify these two oft-repeted cliches:
First time against a team, pitcher has the advantage.
Roookie pitchers are terrible.
If a is true, then shouldn’t b automatically be false?
JR Ewing Says:
191. maybe they logged onto ussseattlebands for a baseball discussion
as if on cue…. :p
Have you guys seen Eric Byrnes run. Vlad looks like Linford Christie
/gratuitous comment=”linford christie”
Morse is playing third base in Tacoma. He’ll be up in September.
In case anyone cared, the last time the M’s won when they didn’t score first was August 3rd, and yes HoRam did start that game, so we have some hope.
Have any of you guys seen the fan vote over on the M’s official page regarding who should get the call up in September? Jeremy Reed is leading the way.
Dave, does that site (tangotiger) offer UZR numbers for previous years? Or is it a proprietary thing that they sell it to teams? I’d like to look at other years, but I can’t seem to find it. Thanks.
222, Don’t buy that at all. Yuni was freaking unreal. His 1/2 step loss is real.
I kinda got this feeling last night, but are the Mariners toying with the idea of moving Ibanez to DH and Vidro to 2B so Jones can start at LF? I’m getting the impression that the FO is losing faith in Lopez. The idea of Vidro being the starting 2B runs chills down my spine. Someone please tell me I’m ignorant or stupid. I’m going to cry if someone says I’m right.
233… any chance he can replace Vidro?
Woo, British sprinter reference…
Dave – Rookie pitchers frequently see a honeymoon period for their first few starts. Remember Zach Duke? It must be after the league gets some scouting out that they become rough when they are too young to properly adjust.
This doesn’t mean anything, but Mike Morse has good trade value in MLB 2K7….
Dave, you forget that veteran-ness trumps batter experience. Just like grit trumps talent.
229- he’s on the Rainiers
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Mike%20Morse&pos=OF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=434604
#240 – thank you, I’ll be here all week
“Ramirez not particularly sharp…”
Very observant, Mr. Sims.
Zach Duke is not the example you’re looking for.
Teej – there’s a file in the /mgl directory called UZR0307. That’s got UZR data for each of the last four years.
Why do we need Morse (I know we don’t, I’m just saying) when Bloomquist is actually a better player who doesn’t play at all? (I cringe while I type this)
Is Zach Duke the example ANYbody’s looking for?
HoRam can play the field, I’ll give him that. Thats all I’m giving him though.
You know how they say some parks are “built for” players a la Mike Lowell in Fenway? I found the park for Richie and it involves tee ball. Id bet he could hit them if they didn’t move.
The FO has no control over who gets played where (which is one of the reasons they don’t always make the moves you expect, because if they traded for or brought up a guy the coach doesn’t want to use, he’ll just sit on the bench; conversely, the team gets saddled with a useless player because a coach wants him for some idiotic reason).
If anyone is losing confidence in Lopez, it’s MacLaren.
Balentien would be a candiate to come up in September, but he’s injured at the moment.
#249 – David, the trick is to do it with a poker face (or, in this case, bracket comments) like this:
Willie Bloomiquist needs to play more.
Am I the only one that really doesn’t have great expectations for Lopez and his bat? I mean I thought we valued his defense more?
Actually DMZ Zach Duke is exactly the example i am looking for. Duke has proven to be a less than mediocre pitcher after the league acclimated to him, but he was lights out in his first month or two.
“How many wins do you think it’ll take to win the west? Not necessarily to make the playoffs, but to win the west?”
What? If you win the west, don’t you make the playoffs? Necessarily?
Teej – there’s a file in the /mgl directory called UZR0307. That’s got UZR data for each of the last four years.
Oh, that makes sense. I’ll check it out. Thanks.
Well, that shows what you know.
Man, I’m starting to think Safeco is a really bad park for Richie.
ANY…OTHER…BALLPARK…GAH
You know, Bloomquist made some fine plays at 3rd last night. I don’t want him to start in place of Beltre (or really, in place of anyone else except when somebody needs a rest) but I’m glad he’s the 25th man.
However, I kept waiting for the Gardenhire to call a bunt to him. As good as the Bloomster was last night, I’m not sure he could manage the bare-handed-pick-and-throw reliably. He certainly is a much more exploitable target for that than Beltre.
Richie’s Baaaaaaaaack
I don’t care, can we just get rid of John Parrish?
Wow … a warning track almost-HR and then a bang-bang-bang DP. The M’s aren’t getting the little breaks this game.
Take out HoRam, now. RRS can go long relief, do it.
Baaaack to the warning track. He can’t get on the road to small stadiums in hot temperatures soon enough. Four game series in Texas next week….
When Jason Bartlett takes you yard, to left at Safeco nonetheless, you should immediately commit seppuku on the mound.
Who? What? Crap!
Blowers: “He was trying to throw strikes and get ahead.”
Well, at least his heart was in the right place.
The point i was making (and not clearly showing) was that the first axiom is most likely true, and is true enough to mask the true value of a pitcher in some cases.
Also, Jason Bartlett? Really?
HoRam prefers to commit batting practice on the mound. *Sigh*
this week’s sign of the apocalypse… Jack Cust now has more homers than any Mariner.
Where’s the Moose and his ATV when you really need him?
Note: I would never really wish harm on any player even if they suck as bad as Horacio.
273… we should all hang our heads in shame.
Anyone warming up?
Yeah really I mean we should all stop harping on Horacio because he means well.
/sarcasm
TAKE HIM OUT MCLAREN, man….
Nice to come in from dinner at Ivars and see Horam doing so well.
/mouthful of clam spit up
Yep – giving David Wells a shot was definitely a bad idea. What was I thinking? This is much better.
274: I don’t wish harm.. just the odd career change..
Shouldn’t UW have bobbleheads of fragile Mariners? “It’s the Edgar Martinez pulled hamstring bobblehead!”
Can anybody see MacLaren in the dugout? Is he sleeping? He has to be sleeping right now.
Just because this annoys me:
Duke pitched 14 games – that’s about half a season – in 2005 and was great over three months, largely due to a sweet strikeout rate, getting lucky in not seeing HRs off line drives, and a ridiculous strand rate (see Jarrod Washburn discussions)
In 2006, over a full season, he came to earth a little and was quite serviceable all year. His skillset was, pretty much, identical – check his G/F split, whatever, but he didn’t get nearly as lucky with LOB or HRs and the results were predictable.
In 2007, his control and velocity were all over the place and predictably, he’s now on the 60-day DL with elbow problems.
There is absolutely no evidence that Duke’s sophomore season was anything more than classic regression to the mean, a return to expected results given his stuff and skill set, and that this season’s been lost to injury.
How is Mauer as a catcher? Any chance the Twins might move him to save his legs?
I’ve never understood the Nirvana v. PJ thing. They’re both awesome bands, and their members are friends with each other.
Oh and Ho Ramirez is still giving Jim DeShaies a run for his money. I can’t believe we are successful while we surrender every fifth game.
this week’s sign of the apocalypse… Jack Cust now has more homers than any Mariner.
Not really that surprising. He’s chunky, slow and terrible at defense, but the guy can mash.
Annnnd now the game is out of reach, thanks McL.
speaking of falling on a sword…
What kind of a prospect is Garza?
For all the harping we’ve done on Ibanez’s defense, that’s almost regular right field and Guillen wasn’t anywhere close to it. That was some lousy, lousy range there.
So I see that ho-ram sucks at the safe too now…
dmz – I fail to see how we are not in complete agreement. He was good his first time around, fooling people he maybe shouldn’t have fooled otherwise. Then he wasn’t great.
HoRam must be driving everyone batty
RE: Jack Cust….yeah, I noticed on Baseball Tonight (the rerun from the Monday night edition) that they put his HR as #1 in their “Touch ‘Em All” (or whatever they call it) segment, and totally ignored Sexson’s walkoff HR.
The night before they didn’t even mention the Mariners. It was like they didn’t even play Sunday, or sweep the O’s.
I’ve never understood the Nirvana v. PJ thing. They’re both awesome bands, and their members are friends with each other.
Hmm, they both got plenty of airplay as well…so it’s not like fans of either could be offended by the other “selling out.” I guess there could be some slight resentment of Kurt being the face of the movement, and the martyr after his death, but Eddie Vedder wasn’t exactly low profile.
Every chance the M’s have had this season to become sole owners of first place or make up significant ground on the Angels, they lose…and lose big.
J-Lo!
Phew! Now that was some nutty running. Go J Lo!
What kind of a prospect is Garza?
A really good one. He came up last season and started a few games and didn’t do well, so the Twins were cautious about bringing him back up. I’ve also read that the team hase had problems getting him to work on pitches other than his fastball. He has vented against the front office a couple of times, which hasn’t helped his accent through the system. But he’s very, very promising, from what I understand.
Seriously, is there nobody else we can start other than Horacio Hornblower?
Nice hit J-Lo, there’s a little bit of that regression we were expecting.
Also Simms didn’t know what base he was on. You aren’t held at second on a triple bud.
What exactly does the record of a Giants low level minor league affiliate have to do with building to our future?
290 – what gives with the outfield defense? I know Jones didn’t catch that ball last night, but at least he dove for it. Ichiro admitted he is starting to think about diving since we’re in a pennant race. Is Guillen too old/rickety to even consider it? Our defense is hurting us.
A one-out triple and you can’t get him home?
They have a no-compete clause with the Angels. They can only win when the Angels do also.
What is wrong with Ichiro? He hasn’t looked like himself for a week – ten days now.
I hope the three fry guys aren’t readers of this blog.. gearggh..
Oh so now you bring in RRS? After you gave up the 3 additional runs? Yeah good job there.
great RRS time. This is a great 1-2 punch.
And now.. the only hyphenated last name in major league history
Had to let Ramirez get through the mystical 5 innings
Guillen gets bad jumps, has shredded ankles, and is probably afraid of (re)injuring his shoulder. There’s a reason why some people thought Jones might be playing in right (and based on his comments, one of those people was Guillen himself).
Why not put Rowland-Smith in? According to fangraphs, we’ve got a 5% chance of winning this one :\
293. they went to tape before it happened
So excuse my ignorance on this, but is Ryan R. Smith going to be stretched into a starter anytime soon? I really like his stuff, even more than Morrow actually.
MacLaren is driving me crazy! Is there a worse decision making manager out there right now? I mean he’s managing like there are 162 games left in the season. WTF is wrong with this guy?
312 You know I wouldn’t be surprised if the winning percentage for the M’s was at around 2% when the game started with Horacio on the mound and now that he’s gone it jumped up to a whopping 5%.
Garza is an excellent pitcher but he hasn’t shown great longevity, maybe we have a chance if we can draw out this inning and take our chances against their bullpen.
316,
Fortunately, Fangraphs doesn’t predict that way. If they did, I don’t think I ever would have turned this game on.
Good plan, down by 5, the young pitcher leads off by throwing 5 straight balls, and you swing at the next pitch.
Yay, a hit. Still, that’s a really dumb plan of attack.
Actually, Richies HR was the #1 Web Gem..
well thats gotta help the win percentage
Rally Fries are now sad.
Rally Fries have been cliche for two months. Please stop.
Karma points for the M’s too after the delivery of rally fries
A hanger? That ball was at his ankles.
Come on POTW, let’s drive in some runs.
Face it, the rally fries are never going away, EVER!!
That ball is a hanger for Eckstein though… Belt high
I want Rally Beer.
Beltre is 0-for-2 this game… he’s due!
By the way, I’m loving the drunk guy near the camera taunting Vidro when Beltre is CLEARLY up to bat ;P
Ibanez now 2-10 with 5 strikeouts in the last three games. Is he still on fire? Just wondering.
Damn. Dammit. Godammit.
so Dave – do you know by chance if there are any good free agents due at the end of this year? Say, any capable of playing first or a corner outfield position?
Is he still on fire?
Well, he’s on a streak. Let’s leave it at that.
331, I definitely busted out laughing when I heard that. I wonder where he’s sitting? I’d love to come in that clearly when I heckle Ramirez!
Dave — i just logged on, so how many balls did Raul not get to that AJ would’ve??
Dave,
No, he’s not on fire anymore. He’s actually ice cold, meaning he is totally due. So we have to leave him in. As you can see, you can NEVER take Raul Ibanez out of the lineup. Never.
So, I wonder what big Mac’s excuse will be for HoRam’s performance tonight. Or will they finally do something about him?
There’s only been one ball to left tonight that Raul didn’t get near that I think AJ would have had a good chance at.
Blowers: In A.D. 2007, war was beginning.
Sims: What happen?
Dave,
Guillen’s seemingly constant late jumps and circuitous routes must be a figment of your imagination (and mine too – I think he is a terrible defender in a not all that large Safeco right field). THT’s RZR assures me he has the second best range in the AL. I am sure that stats don’t lie, my eyes are deceiving me and that Jose is a regular lord of the leather.
How about that one, I think AJ could’ve climbed the walls, alas Junior…
eh, maybe not.
I wonder what big Mac’s excuse will be for HoRam’s performance tonight
Excuse? Dude, take away 5 or 6 pitches and this was a quality outing.
Meanwhile, bedtime.
I’ve never advocated drawing wide conclusions from one defensive stat, especially one like RZR that’s not park adjusted and doesn’t differentiate between ball locations.
Time of death – 9:01 pm.
Somebody set us up the bomb
PARRISH!!!!!1
Oh good, yet another lefty warming up in the pen.
I wonder why the Twins aren’t playing better ball with that line up and pitchers like Santana and co.
Can’t blame this one on the defense, but you can definitely blame it on the pitching
Honestly, I couldn’t have been the only one expecting a loss tonight, and because of that I’m not as mad as I normally would be.
I just wish HoRam was off of this team.
H Ramirez WPA: -.290
somebody set up us the bomb
I can’t believe Dave is still awake and watching.
I love how McLaren just throws games away.
good news – the angels and yankees lost…
bad news – the angels and yankees lost…
Seriously Parrish is warming up? That could be possibly the smartest decision MacLaren has made in a while. I hope this is a sign.
The Rally Fries Wikipedia page is being considered for deletion. We all need to swamp the deletion debate page and save it’s place in that great institution.
Take away 12 or 13 pitches and HoRam pitched 5 perfect innings!
So uhh could everyone who complained about my pessimism over this pitching match up please eat their effing feet?
Well, the combination of the hyphenated last name pitcher and the blowout status of this game leads me to recommend a baseball book for all to read. It’s a work of fiction by C.W. Tooke called Ballpark Blues and concerns the ascension of a prized prospect through the Red Sox farm system. Related to all this is the (fictional) appearance of a hyphenated last-name player in the big leagues as well as a rather amusing “very fat” (again, fictional) relief pitcher by the name of …. Felix Hernandez. the story is woven into modern Red Sox baseball – in the story the catcher position opens because of a season ending injury to Jason Varitek. Seriously, it’s well written and does a nice job of exposing the world of the journeyman writers that track MLB teams and write for their local rag.
Shoulda traded Parrish to the Twins before the game.. then maybe we’d have a chance at coming back.
There’s a Rally Monkey page … save our Rally Fries! Get those LA bastards!
Could we put Jones in just for the hell of it, just to give him an at bat or two?
so how much would you guys pay for JOhan? How about trading AJ, Wlad, Clement, etc. for him?
Pretty sweet Hughes/Bedard matchup tomorrow morning at Yankee Stadium.
364: For a season and a quarter? No way in hell.
357. if some jackass tv producer came up with rally fries, then fine. but if a former big leaguer does it, can’t we just let it live and have fun with it, or at least let others have fun with it.
Why don’t they just toss the towel out there and call it a night. It’s got to be past Mac’s bedtime.
I wouldn’t trade a bag of peanuts for any player at this point. Mac would screw it up if he had Santana, Haliday Pujols, ARod and Big Pappy.
84-88 with no command – how the hell is John Parrish still in the majors?
Forgot about the draft picks, I might actually do that trade.
At least we know that Mac doesn’t watch the scoreboards.
Pretty obviously this game is done, how about giving AJ some playing time anyways?
Thanks for blowing it with HoRam anyways, but there is no way we’re coming back now so you might as well but Parrish out there, and you might as well put Jones out there. Not saying Jones is bad but following the management logic he couldn’t possibly “hurt us” by being out their now and it would give him some consistent playing time.
I like how Casilla put his hands on his helmet when the throw was offline. Because taking a ball in the hands is definitely better than taking one in a protective piece of equipment designed to absorb blows.
Is the 92 legit, or is the gun juiced?
I don’t think it matters with his control/command.
Bavasi really needs to be looking for a starting pitcher. And trade Parrish for the peanut vendor.
370 I was hoping you could answer that question Dave because obviously the Orioles agree with you but yet the M’s saw…..potential?
The M’s are the worst team in the majors at evaluating pitchers. They just don’t have any idea how to do it.
Honestly, how do you justify keeping Horacio in the rotation after tonight. That was the worst pitching I’ve seen in a long time, let alone from a pitcher in a contending team, and it is nothing but more of the same from him.
So Vidro….if you get a hit here I will officially forgive you for the first half of the season and your previous lack of contribution at DH.
HoRam’s been killing my liver all year…
Vidro now with a .380+OBP. Was Dave wrong about him?
Was HoRam’s average-ness in Atlanta all smoke, mirrors and random luck, or did his injuries errode his ability?
If Vidro can hit .400, he’s an asset. I remain skeptical that he’s a .400 hitter, for obvious reasons.
HoRam was never average in ATL. He’s always sucked.
Raul was ready to throw his helmet..
The most baffling stat tonight is Horacio’s two strikeouts. How he manages to K anyone is impressive.
It’s times like these I wish HoRam was still on the mound… He would have fielded that ball!
I love it when a prediction USSM makes comes so beyond-the-shadow-of-a-doubt true.
Let’s go Parrish! *clap clap clap clap clap*
And the floodgates are open!
hmm. things didn’t improve while I was away.
at least we know Parrish won’t come in the game tomorrow.
Sorry, I meant average results.
I honestly don’t care who Mac puts on the field any more when HoRam starts. It just doesn’t matter.
.. putting the “suck” back in “success” ..
it made me sad to go from watching Neshak to watching Parrish.
Joe Nathan with an 8-run lead? He must need work..
395: Remember, we just ended the Twins’ 5 game losing streak. Nathan hasn’t gotten much work recently.
Did Sims just say Nathan used to be a starter in the NY Giants organization?
With the exception of the 6 runs he gave up, Ramirez pitched a shutout. And Parrish has been through the Wars.
HoRam set up us the bomb!
so, the Twins scored more runs tonight than they have in a week…
.. and Mac says HoRam was inconsistent with his arm angles. Well duh!
he did say they’d be talking about what to do with him tomorrow
hey, & even Valle says there has to be some movement, that it is time for an upgrade …
from Rotoworld:
Horacio Ramirez was tagged for six runs in five innings by the Twins on Tuesday.
Ramirez allowed nine hits and walked three in falling to 7-4. With the left-hander’s ERA up to 7.38, the Mariners should be thinking about making a change. However, they have no attractive options in Triple-A, meaning they’re probably better off sticking with him unless they can pull off a trade.
Yeah. I missed the game tonight, or at least 92% of it. It appears I didn’t miss much. At this point I’m hoping the Mariners can goad Nomo out of retirement to be their 5th starter.
As Larry Stone might say, Where’s Brian Holman when you really need him?
…what the hell did we trade for this Parrish guy? Anything more than a set of rusty nail clippers is a rip off. Let Jones pitch.
and that just about sums up the whole thing right there.
Jones isn’t a major-league pitcher, or a major league 2B. He’s a major-league outfielder.