That’s A Wrap

Dave · September 5, 2007 at 6:52 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

If you had told us in March that we’d still care about the outcome of Mariner games until September 5th and Ichiro would re-sign to a below market contract before the year ended, we’d have all taken that, I think.

2007 – a successful season that is now over.

Comments

105 Responses to “That’s A Wrap”

  1. argh on September 5th, 2007 6:57 pm

    The end of the Mariners season, metaphorically, of course:

    http://img8.exs.cx/img8/7757/imprint14ky.jpg

  2. JIMINEDMONDS on September 5th, 2007 7:01 pm

    Well, this makes it three years in this decade that our season has come to a close in NY: 2000, 2001, and now 2007. Man, I hate the Yankees, but we played ourselves out of contention. No excuses (although Blowers is now talking about the M’s grueling schedule): the Mariners are just not as good as the competition in the American League. On to next year!

  3. jasonmcgillie on September 5th, 2007 7:02 pm

    Hey, at least baseball has meant something this summer, right? I’ll take the silver lining.

  4. pensive on September 5th, 2007 7:03 pm

    That is Perspective for all.

  5. Dayve on September 5th, 2007 7:04 pm

    Let the kids finish it out from here.

  6. terry on September 5th, 2007 7:04 pm

    I simply can’t take a full season of McLaren.

  7. Ben Ramm on September 5th, 2007 7:07 pm

    Very considerate of the Mariners to get out of the way and not distract anyone from Seahawks games.

  8. SMJ on September 5th, 2007 7:08 pm

    So, how many years are McLaren and Bavasi going to get on their extensions?

  9. JI on September 5th, 2007 7:09 pm

    It still hurts. A very effective way to make someone sad is to give them a surprise and then take it away.

  10. AD_ROY84 on September 5th, 2007 7:11 pm

    I just can’t shake the sinking feeling most of the lineup (to include Sexson, Vidro and Ibanez), the front office and the coaching staff is coming back next year. I can hear all the powers that be talking themselves into letting the same crew have another run at it because of a “couple of bad breaks” (or some crap along those lines). I really hope I’m wrong because it’s been a long time since I cared about baseball this much this late in the season. It would be great to have that feeling again next year without waiting for the other shoe to drop every series.

  11. Mike Honcho on September 5th, 2007 7:13 pm

    Opportunity Lost. That’s the theme of the 2007 campaign. This team was so fortunate to be in the playoff race, but they refused to make the team better.

    All in the name of veteranness and chemistry.

  12. Swungonandbelted on September 5th, 2007 7:16 pm

    In March, I think that I would have taken that. A team that wasn’t out of it by the ASB would have been a refreshing change after the previous two seasons…. Turns out that it’s not though, at least for me.

    If we had hung in there and played everybody tough, and just came up short that would be alright. Having four different losing streaks of at least 6 games, and on their way to a fifth from the way they look right now isn’t alright. Having King Felix show monumental stuff on some nights, and then showing that he can be a monumental head case on other nights isn’t alright. I have no problems with Miguel Batista or Jared Washburn, but that’s only 3/5ths of a starting rotation. Having a GM who thinks that HoRam and Spiccoli are the best pitchers that he could come up with (especially with the M’s financial resources) is not alright. Having Sexson batting at the Mendoza line for the season is far, far, far, from being frigging alright. Having a second baseman who is so bad in the batters box that the team is petitioning MLB to let them use their DH to hit for him instead of the pitcher is not alright. A left fielder who’s not able to cover his position, even with Ichiro! covering MORE ground in CF so his territory could be a bit smaller is not alright. Finally a manager who has years of experience as a bench coach but apparently didn’t learn a damn thing from it is the cherry on top of this whole mess.

    Is there another team in the majors that gets LESS of a bang for their buck than the M’s? Other teams bring in FA’s and groom their prospects, and they end up performing and becoming stars. The M’s prospects seem to fizzle at a disproportionately high rate, and the FA’s that they bring in seem to consistently go in the tank and fail to even come close to their expectations.

    Sorry about the length of this, I’m a little tired, and possibly more than a little drunk (which I’ll hang on the M’s bullpen) but this is the way I feel right now.

  13. brian_sun on September 5th, 2007 7:21 pm

    Hargrove: 45 – 33 this year. McLaren: 29 – 31.

    If Hargrove is one of the worst managers in the game today before he resigned in July, McLaren has to be one of the worst in MLB history.

  14. drjeff on September 5th, 2007 7:21 pm

    I still love watching baseball, and the M’s, on a game-by-game basis. It will be interesting to see when they throw in the towel and start playing the call-ups, but based on experience that’s going to be the last game of the season to “thrill the kids.”

    I’m still trying to figure out how much blog reading I want to do to supplement my old-skool method of watching optimistically and just simply cheering for the home team, but it’s been nice to have all of this perspective.

    No miracles are in the offing, but there’s always hope. And I’m already dreading that long-ass offseason.

  15. dennismk on September 5th, 2007 7:26 pm

    Good perspective, drjeff.

    For me, I’ll be wondering if the team makes it to .500.

    Doom and gloom also on the Times blog. Lookout Landing ditto.

    It was a nice couple of weeks imagining the team was going to do all right against the Angels and on this road trip.

  16. (Expletive) Dave Samson on September 5th, 2007 7:27 pm

    14… why play the kids? The Ms need that Veteran Presence (TM).

  17. msb on September 5th, 2007 7:31 pm

    Norm thinks the Ms still have a chance, because (tonight notwithstanding) he isn’t sure the Yankees have the pitching to carry them the rest of the way.

    He kindly didn’t mention the Mariner pitching.

  18. dennismk on September 5th, 2007 7:34 pm

    Perspective time…read the other USSM heading, and then look at this one:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/othersports/2003868841_moyer05.html?syndication=rss

  19. msb on September 5th, 2007 7:35 pm

    after Ichiro! got jobbed the 2nd time, I just had that feeling of doom.

  20. jeffinfremont on September 5th, 2007 7:37 pm

    This is the way the world ends
    This is the way the world ends
    This is the way the world ends
    Not with a bang but a whimper.

  21. 1996Coug on September 5th, 2007 7:39 pm

    I hang this one on J-Lo. He’s been absolutely pathetic in the second half. But then again, the schedule has been grueling…ppffftttt

  22. scraps on September 5th, 2007 7:42 pm

    At least — I’m stretching for something positive here — when the Mariners decline a bit next year, as they probably will — 80 to 85 wins, say — Bavasi and McLaren will be gone, because the expectations have been raised.

  23. S1lent on September 5th, 2007 7:43 pm

    What Dave says is true, but I have a hard time believing that he is not thinking about what could have been just as we all are.

    Earlier I was angry, now I’m just sad…

  24. thefin190 on September 5th, 2007 7:52 pm

    R.I.P. 2007 season. Good Luck in 2008 guys.

  25. Thom Jimsen on September 5th, 2007 7:53 pm

    So, Dave, if you’re the manager, what lineup do you roll out starting tomorrow?

  26. Joe C on September 5th, 2007 7:54 pm

    Is now a good time to slow Morrow down a little so he can be stretched out in winter ball and not be too burned out by spring training? Or is it too late for him to make the switch to starting next year?

  27. Mr. Egaas on September 5th, 2007 8:02 pm

    Time to start thinking about 2008… are we really better off than we were at the beginning of 2007?

  28. Crushgroovin on September 5th, 2007 8:03 pm

    This season has brought us many wonderful memories. I will think back on the pleasant ones. The good Jeff Weaver, that stretch of 3 or 4 games in August where Sexson proved that we just needed to wait and he would carry this team to the pennant. The wonderful “chemistry set” post…

  29. thewyrm on September 5th, 2007 8:04 pm

    What do y’all think the chances of Richie coming back of the DL and tearing the cover off the ball now that it means nothing are?

  30. opiate82 on September 5th, 2007 8:08 pm

    I believe that you will probably see the M’s running out their normal line-up. Even though we see how much of a stretch making the playoffs would be, from a PR stand point even if they pull with-in a game or 2 of the wild-card the front office will promote it as a moral victory, Bavasi and JMac get fatty extensions and the M’s will have plenty of hype going into next year.

    Hopefully this final stretch has shown JMac the value of a rested bullpen and the FO will realize they cannot keep $14 mil tied up in Sexson and that the rotation needs a complete overhaul. I don’t think the free agent pitching market is going to be too good this year though…

    This is really the first time this management group has been in an actual playoff race (with this team at least). I really hope they learn from the shortcomings of this team because I do not foresee a run like this year happening again for the current line-up.

  31. msb on September 5th, 2007 8:08 pm

    he’d have to go on the DL first– and then remember how to hit.

    I think what is so frustrating (aside from the consistant inconsistancy) for me is that they managed to get so close considering the pitching they had, the hitting they had …

  32. Thom Jimsen on September 5th, 2007 8:08 pm

    Why should Richie ever get another at-bat in a Mariner uniform?

  33. eponymous coward on September 5th, 2007 8:17 pm

    I have no problems with Miguel Batista or Jared Washburn, but that’s only 3/5ths of a starting rotation.

    Uh, combined, they’re making 19 million this year. I have a bit of a problem with that.

  34. John in L.A. on September 5th, 2007 8:17 pm

    Staying in the race a bit longer than usual isn’t the silver lining – it’s the worst part of the whole frigging season.

    I would have a thousand times preferred that the M’s finished last and got everyone involved fired.

    Just good enough to keep being bad.

    How the f*** am I supposed to get excited about another year with Bavasi acquiring crappy players, and McLaren using them poorly and Vidro DHing, and gritty veteraness, and etc. etc. etc.?

    The worst part isn’t that we ultimately failed, the worst part is that we didn’t fail sooner.

  35. msb on September 5th, 2007 8:19 pm

    reading Baker’s blog, I think I am glad I missed the later innings, with the HP ump apparently continuing the theme of the evening– as Baker says, you can’t collapse as they did and complain too hard, but at the same time, to get that many bad calls in one game…

  36. fetish on September 5th, 2007 8:25 pm

    [deleted, annoying]

  37. WardP on September 5th, 2007 8:32 pm

    The key is to play well enough to take it out of the umps’ hands; the Ms didn’t do that tonight.

    Lots of bad call tonight, though..

    I will keep my fingers crossed for the rest of the year, and look very much forward to a 2008 season with a new GM and a new field manager.

  38. frannyzoo on September 5th, 2007 8:33 pm

    Hey, at least we’re not the Orioles, who in the last month have been no-hit, had a modern-day record 30 runs scored against them and gave up, like 19 tonight to the Devil Rays.

    Ok, the rationalization thing isn’t helping. I still WANT to like this team more than I do, and it’s been that way ever since the Sexson signing. I almost got over there for a couple of weeks, but fun’s over, and we still have Richie Sexson. Or should I say, the M’s still have him…I’m undecided on the use of the “we” pronoun with this team.

  39. sokala on September 5th, 2007 8:36 pm

    A song for the season –
    Through early morning fog I see
    Visions of the things to be,
    The pains that are withheld for me,
    I realize and I can see…
    That suicide is painless,
    It brings on many changes
    And I can take or leave it if I please.
    The game of life is hard to play,
    I’m going to loose it anyway,
    The loosin’ card I’ll someday lay;
    So this is all I have to say…
    That suicide is painless,
    It brings on many changes
    And I can take or leave it if I please.
    The only way to win is cheat
    And lay it down before I’m beat
    And to another give my seat
    For that’s the only painless feat.
    That suicide is painless,
    It brings on many changes
    And I can take or leave it if I please.
    And you can do the same thing if you please.

  40. msb on September 5th, 2007 8:39 pm

    so is that 3 times in the last week that we have actually seen Ichiro argue?

  41. jlc on September 5th, 2007 8:40 pm

    39 – Perfect time for an Altman movie reference. Sigh.

  42. Tom on September 5th, 2007 8:44 pm

    Now that we can finally talk about 2008, does anyone want to start talking about the guy who the Mariners should sign in free agency before someone else like, oh, I don’t know, the Angels, Red Sox, and Yankees does?

    And that free agent is of course, Kosuke Fukudome.

  43. Tom on September 5th, 2007 8:45 pm

    Also, there should be discussions about batting Johjima 3rd or 4th full time next year as well.

  44. msb on September 5th, 2007 8:45 pm

    two Altmans, as it was Robert’s son who wrote the lyric…

  45. Tom on September 5th, 2007 8:49 pm

    Would anybody call me crazy if I thought Adam Jones would make for a decent #2 hitter next year.

  46. PADJ on September 5th, 2007 8:50 pm

    Had to work late, but turned on the radio just in time to hear Dave N. say “…and the Mariners have fallen apart.” That told me all I needed to know and I changed the station.

    I don’t think they can do anything yet except continue to trot the regular lineup out. Yeah they can mix in giving people a few games off for injury (which may not be far from the truth), but until you’re mathematically out of everything I think as an organization you can’t do anything but give the impression you’re trying.

    Try explaining to your ticket buying public (those who don’t look at the standings) how you weren’t technically out of the post season but ran up the white flag and just started playing the kids.

  47. PADJ on September 5th, 2007 8:54 pm

    45 – I don’t know where I’d put him in the batting order, but he would be in the lineup on a regular basis.

  48. FrayLo on September 5th, 2007 8:55 pm

    I hate giving up now, but I really would love it if the Mariners refunded my postseason ticket deposit now. I can’t believe they have the audacity to charge $40 for processing and charge my CC immediately.

    That being said, I’m a sucker and gave them my money anyway.

  49. outtathequestion on September 5th, 2007 8:55 pm

    45 – John McLaren would.

  50. Tom on September 5th, 2007 8:56 pm

    #47: Well, he was a leadoff hitter, and a good one at that, in Tacoma this year. So I don’t see how he couldn’t be #2.

  51. kenshabby on September 5th, 2007 8:57 pm

    Not only do the M’s have one #2 starter, two #4′s, one #5, and one #6, but they essentially have one leadoff hitter, and eight guys that should be hitting 6-9. These issues need to be addressed this offseason.

  52. dw on September 5th, 2007 8:57 pm

    two Altmans, as it was Robert’s son who wrote the lyric…

    Huh. I always thought Loudon Wainwright wrote it as well as performed it, but I was wrong.

    The Manic Street Preachers did the best version, though.

  53. Tom on September 5th, 2007 8:58 pm

    Not enough good starters though in free agency aside from Carlos Silva, and that’s not saying much.

  54. Thom Jimsen on September 5th, 2007 8:59 pm

    It’s now Nick Green’s team.

  55. Tom on September 5th, 2007 8:59 pm

    #51: Having a guy like Fukudome in the middle though could really open up this lineup for the other hitters.

  56. derubino on September 5th, 2007 9:00 pm

    In the same light if you told me at the beginning of the year that we’d be three back of the wildcard on September 5th I’d have said booya and liked my chances. I’m just stoked that it’s September and I care and although I wish we’d have won today, this just isn’t over with the pitching the Yankees don’t have. I take my optimism with me to my grave.

  57. JMHawkins on September 5th, 2007 9:07 pm

    I hate giving up now, but I really would love it if the Mariners refunded my postseason ticket deposit now. I can’t believe they have the audacity to charge $40 for processing and charge my CC immediately.

    That being said, I’m a sucker and gave them my money anyway.

    Yeah, I balked at the non-refundable handling charge and didn’t send my payment in. I’m a charter effing season ticket holder – they damn well better take my order late if I place it because they’ve dissapointed the hell out of me the last three years and this year ,while less of a dissapointemnt, was one hell of a frustrating experience. Honestly, when I see the horrible decision making going on, I just blow a gasket.

  58. jlc on September 5th, 2007 9:11 pm

    Hey, Dave, I don’t know if you posted the Hayhurst story deliberately this morning to get us ready for this tonight. If you did, great call. It really does help put this frustrating season in perspective.

  59. dw on September 5th, 2007 9:13 pm

    McLaren! McLaren! our fateful year is done;
    The team has vets who play like crap, the flag we sought not won;
    The end is near, the squirrel I hear, the Angels all exulting,
    While Mariners ply unsteady keel, the bullpen burned and flailing:
    But O Moose! Moose! Moose!
    O the fallen team of blue,
    Where on the bench McLaren sits,
    His contract will renew.

  60. HamNasty on September 5th, 2007 9:20 pm

    Did the M’s plan to crash the same week football starts? While that is mighty nice of them, I could have followed both sports intently.

    I agree with Dave, not the best outcome but not a bad season. Thanks for the memories!

  61. thefin190 on September 5th, 2007 9:26 pm

    Yea I would have to say 2007 was better than 2006 or 2005, but no championship year by far. Well hopefully now they will give their prospects some playing time, since we are out of it.

    This may seem like a dumb question, but why does it seem like the media is saying the tigers have hope if they are farther back than the Mariners are?

    And also, I am supposing they will have to trade for pitching? Given the slim free agent market. Dave, any chance they could pry Santana or Carlos Zambrano if they can dump Sexson and Weaver?

  62. lailaihei on September 5th, 2007 9:32 pm

    It’s over.
    This game was absolutely NECESSARY for a win.

  63. earinc on September 5th, 2007 9:44 pm

    Well, shit, Dave, when you put it like THAT… am I supposed to laugh or cry?

  64. hub on September 5th, 2007 10:20 pm

    During tonight’s ‘pitcher-go-round’, which is quickly becoming a McLaren staple, there was sighing, screaming, swearing, and throwing of a plastic cup at the TV screen (right when McLaren’s face popped on screen)….

    …at that point, I asked my wife to just calm down.

  65. strong silence on September 5th, 2007 10:25 pm

    We sent out boys* to face men tonight. And guess what happened? They pitched scared. They were deer in headlights.

    But the good that I think comes from this is that they’ll be better next year.

    I put McLaren in that group too. He managed like a rookie. And a manager can’t learn on the job and expect to beat Torre, Jeter, and Arod.

  66. hub on September 5th, 2007 10:28 pm

    Interesting side note: ‘The Book: Playing The Percentages In Baseball’ just arrived on my doorstep this afternoon. Should I delve into its goodness…or forward it directly to:

    J.McLaren
    C/O Seattle Mariners
    P.O. Box 4100
    Seattle, WA 98194

  67. thefin190 on September 5th, 2007 10:30 pm

    66 – Id say forward it. And if we saw a difference in his play next year, we would know why.

  68. DMZ on September 5th, 2007 10:40 pm

    The whole point of McLaren, though, is that he’s got a resume as a bench coach a mile long: he’s not supposed to have any of those rookie manager issues. I mean at least with Melvin you could excuse some of his weirder in-game tendencies.

  69. hub on September 5th, 2007 10:44 pm

    In fact, I’m now curious what impact (if any) he had in the Mariner bullpen usage of the 90s.

  70. fetish on September 5th, 2007 10:54 pm

    No, no, no, a million times no, on Johjima batting #3 or #4.

    First off, the guy would be a double play machine in that spot.

    Secondly, he’s a catcher, and he’s not especially young. For the most part, catchers don’t even make it long enough to become a DH.

  71. pgreyy on September 5th, 2007 11:03 pm

    I’d like to send this request out to all of the USSM faithful.

    I’d like to imagine this song as sung by a chorus of Mariners–players and coaches–in a Band Aid/We Are The World style…with some of the lyrics receiving minor adjustments…

    Paul Weller and The Style Council with “Long Hot Summer”

    I play out my role
    Why I’ve even been out walking
    They tell me that it helps
    But I know when I’m beaten

    All those spring training games
    And all those silly commercials
    But now the feeling is off-screen
    And the tears for real not acted, anymore

    I’m all mixed up inside
    I want to run but I cant hide
    And however much we try
    We can’t escape the truth and the fact is

    Don’t matter what I do
    It don’t matter what I do
    Don’t matter what I do
    Don’t matter what I do
    Don’t matter what I do
    ‘Cause I end up hurting you

    One more blown out game
    And one more glance at the score means goodbye
    Can’t you see thats why
    Were dashing ourselves against the chances for the wild card

    Don’t matter what I do
    It don’t matter what I do
    Don’t matter what I do
    Don’t matter what I do
    Don’t matter what I do
    ‘Cause I end up hurting you

    (In the bullpen, different voices call)
    What once was pleasure now’s pain for us all
    (In the standings only the M’s fall)
    I once stood proud now I feel so small
    (I don’t know whether to laugh or cry)
    The long hot summer just passed me by…

    pg–Doo-doo-dooody-doo-doo-wah…ohhh…

  72. beckya57 on September 5th, 2007 11:05 pm

    I just hope this collapse is enough to cost Bavasi and McLaren their jobs, and force a major soul-searching in the FO. There are so many things to criticize here: the overreliance on experience, the mishandling of young players, the signing and overpaying of mediocre/over-the-hill FAs, the evaluation of talent on small sample sizes when larger ones are available (e.g. thinking Jeff Weaver is a real pitcher based on one WS game), the dreadful managing…I could go on and on. I’ve said this before, but this M’s organization doesn’t have the lack of resources excuse this team had in the 80′s and 90′s. This team has the resources to compete with NYY and the Red Sox. Those organizations are using their resources wisely (for the most part), however, and this one isn’t.

  73. Gomez on September 5th, 2007 11:11 pm

    I had a feeling it was over after the Angels sweep, because I knew that if our only real hope for the playoffs was to scrap with a powerful Yankees team that had an easy schedule for the wildcard, there was just about no way the M’s could keep up, even if they took this series. I don’t think even treading water and finishing with 91 wins would’ve been enough… as the Yanks would probably reel off 95.

    These last two games were just a decisive nail in the coffin on the 2007 season.

    Soooooo… who replaces Jose Lopez at 2B in 2008?

  74. gwangung on September 5th, 2007 11:12 pm

    Secondly, he’s a catcher, and he’s not especially young. For the most part, catchers don’t even make it long enough to become a DH.

    WHAAAT??????

    What th’ heck does that have to do with batting fourth? I could at least understand being slow (even though there were a LOT of slow 4-spot hitters), but this?

  75. gwangung on September 5th, 2007 11:13 pm

    I just hope this collapse is enough to cost Bavasi and McLaren their jobs, and force a major soul-searching in the FO. There are so many things to criticize here: the overreliance on experience, the mishandling of young players, the signing and overpaying of mediocre/over-the-hill FAs, the evaluation of talent on small sample sizes when larger ones are available (e.g. thinking Jeff Weaver is a real pitcher based on one WS game), the dreadful managing…I could go on and on. I’ve said this before, but this M’s organization doesn’t have the lack of resources excuse this team had in the 80’s and 90’s. This team has the resources to compete with NYY and the Red Sox. Those organizations are using their resources wisely (for the most part), however, and this one isn’t.

    You’re assuming that this group of front office types are sharp enough to figure out why they didn’t make it…and not just be happy they had a shot…

  76. 300ZXNA on September 5th, 2007 11:15 pm

    I would like to think that in some alternate universe there is a Mariner team that didn’t trade for Vidro or Ho Ram. The domino effects of the blunders this offseason are astounding.

    If we had Soriano instead of Ho Ram, Morrow would have been developing as a starter in the minors and possible could have come up as a starter near the end of the year to help the rotation (a long shot, I know, but compared to what did happen). The bullpen would have been in better shape not just because of having Soriano vs Morrow, but not having to have the bullpen burn through so many innings cleaning up after Ho Ram the BP possibly wouldn’t have been burned out as it appears it may be . . . *sigh*

    Anyone who is good with statistics have a guess as to how many wins the team pissed away with their incompetence?

  77. Sports on a Schtick on September 5th, 2007 11:22 pm

    In the immortal words of Shea Hillenbrand:

    “This is a sinking ship”

  78. PADJ on September 5th, 2007 11:27 pm

    72 & 75 – IMHO, what will happen is the FO will turn this season into their marketing campaign for next year…kind of a continuation of the “Mojo Rising” thing this year. They’ll put a big happy spin on it because of the improvement over the prior couple of years…and to that extent it’s fine.

    The part is disturbing to me is that that’s ALL this year is likely to be…”look at how well we did!” What SHOULD happen is the organization take a good long look in the mirror and ask “what if…?” and use it as a springboard going forward.

    But I’m not holding my breath.

  79. Tom on September 5th, 2007 11:28 pm

    #76: Beats me, but what it shows me is that Bavasi is not a very forward-thinker. He thinks too much about what the team needs now rather than what the team might need in the future. As was the case here with Soriano/Morrow.

    I just hope to goodness he is out of here as GM very soon like I think he will be. Not to imply anything or start a rumor, but I wouldn’t be surprised if people from the M’s ownership have put the brakes on the Guillen extension, at least temporarily, while they mull over firing Bavasi. But I could be wrong. . .

  80. bmanuw on September 5th, 2007 11:33 pm

    Go SEAHAWKS

  81. 300ZXNA on September 5th, 2007 11:33 pm

    #79: That would be great if Bavasi got fired, but you have to wonder what yes man they would hire in his place. I also wonder if the team brass think they are out of it this year at this point. I could see them continue to play the vets until they are mathematically eliminated and then claim “hey, we were in the thick of things right up till the end” as a way to give themselves a pat on the back and say look at how much the team improved in only one offseason . . . and thus maintain the status quo on their GM/Managerial/”Vets and grit” mentality for next year.

  82. Tom on September 5th, 2007 11:33 pm

    #78: Interesting how it seems almost TOO OBVIOUS that they would do such a thing and keep all the current front office members here. . .

    I definitely agree about the positive spins, but I’m sure when Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong kept Bill Bavasi here for another season, that he expected him to form a playoff team rather than a club that choked an lost 11 out of 12 down the stretch. Or he may have just wanted to form a team that would put more butts in the seats, I don’t know.

    Even though I’d love to see Joe Girardi here as manager next year, I think they might give McLaren one more try next year to give him a clean slate to work with. On the other hand, Bavasi’s job I think is seriously in trouble. Four years in a row of not making the postseason certainly does not warrant an extension for him in my book.

  83. Tom on September 5th, 2007 11:36 pm

    #81: But under the watch of this “status quo”, we lost 11 games in a row last year and 11 out of 12 this year. You would think this corprate regime could see that something is wrong with this picutre while the Angels are on the cusp of being a perenial AL West powerhouse if they aren’t already.

    “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”

  84. Sports on a Schtick on September 5th, 2007 11:36 pm

    The M’s front office cares about winning? I thought they were happy as long as they made piles of money.

  85. PADJ on September 5th, 2007 11:42 pm

    82 – I think we’re all pretty much in agreement that McLaren should not be next year’s manager (bench coach maybe), and Bavasi shouldn’t be the GM. Who you bring in to replace them and are they better is an entirely different issue.

    And I also agree that ownership probably had a few conversations with Bavasi when they retained him. I would expect the Mariners, independent of any FO decisions etc, to seize on any positive they can to try to bolster revenues, and the improvement in record is the most obvious target.

    As I said, my concern is that it will only go that far and no one will ask the “what if we hadn’t made that trade?” or “who’s running the ship and where is it going?” type of questions.

  86. Tom on September 5th, 2007 11:46 pm

    #84: They care about both, as evidenced with some expensive free agency signings in recent years in spite of declining ticket sales. But this team will never go “the extra mile” to win (i.e. Deciding whether or not to place a risk-free, but expensive, bid on Matsuzaka). That is why Lou Piniella, Pat Gillick, Carlos Guillen, and Jeff Nelson among others requested to leave in some way or another.

  87. hub on September 5th, 2007 11:48 pm

    #81: But under the watch of this “status quo”, we lost 11 games in a row last year and 11 out of 12 this year. You would think this corprate regime could see that something is wrong with this picutre while the Angels are on the cusp of being a perenial AL West powerhouse if they aren’t already.

    “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”

    So what is ‘Fool me four times…?”

  88. PADJ on September 5th, 2007 11:50 pm

    87 – Fool me four times = shame on me squared? (Can’t figure out typing exponents!) :-)

  89. Tom on September 5th, 2007 11:50 pm

    #87: haha, an excellent question. . .

    But I was talking about the last 2 years specficially.

  90. 300ZXNA on September 5th, 2007 11:53 pm

    #84: That and having a team of boyscouts that they can make pithy commercials with that revolve around the signature “Gotta Love these Guys even though they suck”.

  91. DizzleChizzle on September 5th, 2007 11:54 pm

    I’d be more optimistic about next season if they fought till the last week of September 2007, but this downward spiral started in late August and it’s still in actively in progress. I don’t know if I’d call this season a success considering how this team just folded like a lawn chair. Final prediction 85-77. Success? Yeah, if you’re just looking at the win loss record, but if you’re looking at the big picture, it was a failure.

    Dave, is there any way to mathematically figure out how many games McLaren has cost this team with his questionable decision making during close games?

  92. Tom on September 5th, 2007 11:55 pm

    #90: hahaha, and suddenly we forget about Carl Everett’s history. . .

    Although to the Mariners’ credit, they came back strong this year by signing an author of murder novels (Batista) to a 3 year deal.

  93. PADJ on September 5th, 2007 11:56 pm

    90 – If they want to look at new slogans for marketing, what about “You Gotta Wonder About These Guys”…

    …or you could just use an existing one and change the inflection just a little bit…”Mariners Baseball…My Oh My…”

    Sorry. It’s late.

  94. PADJ on September 5th, 2007 11:59 pm

    91 – I agree, but for the most part people willing to part with money to put butts in seats don’t go much past win / loss records. If the home guys win, it’s a good day at the park with the kids.

  95. 300ZXNA on September 6th, 2007 12:06 am

    #91: Another thing that makes me nervous is that even us being in the thick of things this late was probably just a statistical fluke. If we regress to the mean with regard to our pythagorean next year, our “progress” this year may be just smoke and mirrors. I just hope the FO doesn’t justify themselves by the win total without as you said, seeing the big picture . . .

  96. Colm on September 6th, 2007 8:28 am

    That’s what I worry about. I fear that this season is like the one winning season in Kansas City this century – nothing more than a fluke that allows the complacent and incompetent to keep their jobs and keep repeating the same mistakes.

  97. VaughnStreet on September 6th, 2007 8:54 am

    Another 9 game losing streak and there is doubt the Mariners even win 80 games. Of course that result could bring the fire Mclaren scenario into sharp focus.

  98. zugzwang on September 6th, 2007 8:59 am

    Continuing the “alternate universe” daydreaming in 76…

    If we hadn’t traded Snelling for Vidro, Snelling would have been our DH, he would likely have been so-so, then got hurt, clearing room for AJ to take over in left and Raul to go to DH. No Vidro, no logjam.

  99. Kouvre on September 6th, 2007 9:23 am

    95

    You’re talking about a FO that signed Jarrod Washburn based his ERA.

  100. Norm Charlton Fan Club on September 6th, 2007 9:33 am

    I was at the game last night and it was just heart-breaking. For 6 innings I thought we had everything under control and McLaren actually seemed to be using his better relievers for once (I was pumped when George came in in relief) and just everything exploded. It was the longest half inning I ever experienced live and I wish I could erase it from my memory.

    I spent the hour or so car ride home absolutely numb and I still feel that way today. I hate the Yankees so f’in much.

  101. shortbus on September 6th, 2007 10:26 am

    So is it accurate to claim that the bullpen is worn out? What was a strength of this team has totally collapsed in the last two or three weeks. (I’d love to back this up with stats, but can’t find a way to get stats on the ‘pen over the last 30 days compared to the previous four months). Is it time to reconsider the pitching market and just accept the fact that you are going to have to overpay in salary to get even decent pitching, if you don’t have it in your minor league system? You never want to overpay with talent in a trade, but it seems like we could have acquired a significantly better pitcher than HoRam at the deadline if we were willing to shell out the dollars. Not just a minor upgrade (like Wells or Tomko would have been), but a guy in the Batista or Washburn, 3rd or 4th starter quality guy.

    Of course, those two haven’t looked that great during this losing streak either…it’s not just HoRam that’s been bad. Sigh.

  102. bob montgomery on September 6th, 2007 11:59 am

    Bavasi’s decisions have frustrated me as well, but it’s worth looking at his track record with the Mariners. The team has improved every season he has been at the helm:
    2004: 63-99
    2005: 69-93
    2006: 78-84
    2007: 72-64

  103. Kaleb on September 6th, 2007 12:16 pm

    102-

    Statistically, Bavasi has improved the team yearly. My arguement is that the money he’s spent, while improving the team, could have brought back so much more. No one will debate this is a more talented team than he inherited. I submit that with better deal making accumen, this team would be better for the same amount spent.

  104. Gomez on September 6th, 2007 12:38 pm

    102. Yeah. Though we know better about using results-based analysis, the FO does not, and it’s almost impossible that they’d fire Bavasi after the team’s improved its record under his watch for 3 straight seasons.

  105. Axtell on September 7th, 2007 1:29 pm

    At least the M’s kept me interested in baseball until football started, something I haven’t been able to say the past couple years.

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.