Game 139, Mariners at Tigers
DMZ · September 7, 2007 at 3:23 pm · Filed Under Game Threads
4:05. Batista v Verlander.
I wonder, now that the playoff race is pretty much done, if I’ll be able to sit back and enjoy the game without worrying every error is going to cost the team their chances. I wonder if they’ll finally spread some playing time around and…
Nope. Well then. Let’s watch some baseball.
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At this point you could probably post McLaren’s relief “lineup” for the 7th inning ahead of time too.
If the M’s are going to lose, I’d rather they at least make the game worth watching…let Verlander get like 25 K’s. Thing is, they could do it without looking like it was on purpose or anything…just watch JLo.
Larry Stone says don’t give up just yet and Beltre Believes too.
oh, and Brad Lefton talks to Joh, and Larue covers raising Jose Lopez.
nothing like an off day.
Am I a bad fan if I want the Tigers to win because I hate the Yankees so much and think the Tigers have a much better chance of keeping them out of the playoffs then we do?
I’m just glad the Mariners themselves aren’t gonna throw in the towel as much as some fans have done for them. Three back with as many games to go as they have is not good, but it’s not bad either. It just seems way worse with how bad they’re playing. I think that’s the reason for the negativity.
Tornado warning? It’s nice not having to deal with snow, rain, wind, thunderstorms at the Safe.
So Jorge Campillo has been called up…
Campillo was recalled.
It’s interesting that in the midst of the final straw that caused many fans to conclude the season is over (the Yankee series), the Mariners actually got 3 games from our much-maligned rotation that ranged from decent (Ramirez) to good (Washburn) to awesome (Felix).
Am I a bad fan if I want the Tigers to win because I hate the Yankees so much and think the Tigers have a much better chance of keeping them out of the playoffs then we do?
Yes.
If the M’s were mathematically eliminated, you *might* be able to think this. Believe me, I share your hatred of the Yankees, but it’s not time for this yet.
Three back with as many games to go as they have is not good, but it’s not bad either.
No, it really is bad.
DMZ, what do you make of the story that Rick Ankiel received a shipment of HGH in 2004?
Boy, I guess it’s just from being a depressed fan the last 5 years, but 3 games doesn’t seem all that horrible. Bad is Texas and Chicago are right now, which is where we normally are. What it comes down to is that in Spring Training I’d have been ecstatic to here we’d be three back in early September. We just got teased by leading in August and are down cause they suck so bad at the moment. But three back is three back and it beats 17.5 back. That make any sense DMZ?
Sure, but three games back at this point in the season is bad if we’re talking about their playoff chances.
M’s have an 8% chance at the playoffs, now that I look at today’s odds over at BP.
Oh, sure. I accept that intellectually.
Emotionally, though, I just take the other position and use the intellectual side not to get too upset when the season ends.
Besides, giving up emotionally deprives me of the chance to take potshots at McLaren for driving the regulars into the ground in the “stretch run” (Hey, didn’t the Angels do that in 1995, making it a factor why the Ms caught up with them then?)
All I know is, I’ll trade my kingdom for 7 quality innings from Batista.
This losing streak (11 of 12) has been the most miserable stretch I, and I suspect many others, have ever seen. Sure they’ve played this poorly in the past but how often has that happened when they were in contention? After the Mariners established this year that they were a legit team, I took solace after each losing streak that, surely, we would NOT have to watch anything like last year 11-game August debacle. But there it was, and it might not be over.
Next in line might be August 2000 when they lost 8 in a row (and 11 of 12) to go from 69-48 and 7 games in front to 70-58 and 1.5 games in front.
I read Stone’s article today. Sounds a little too optimistic. But i am a very optimistic person so I am hoping they can pull off some sort of stretch run. Tonight’s game will determine whether i will still feel optimistic or not. It won’t be easy with Verlander on the mound.
Detroit booth guys are giving Beltre some love for his glovework. Nice to hear.
Larry Stone is completely wrong. Frankly, he sounds downright Finnigan-esque. It’s not his job to see things through the team’s denial-colored glasses.
Okay, he’s just 92 percent wrong.
Now 93% wrong…
All other things being equal, the Mariners just play like a broken, defeated team.
94% and rising…
Anybody else on Gameday? I don’t use it very often. There’s no strike box today. Have I accidentally hit a button to turn it off or is it just not there at all?
Wow. That’s why I still watch this team, I guess.
And if Vidro’s out there, that’s a single.
Wow, pitcher’s best friend…
Question – how long will this losing streak be?
without looking at the numbers, it feels like that every time the M’s lose 3 straight, they go on to lose 6+ straight.
#27:
Gameday is just finicky today as always. The first two refreshes didn’t even show an option for it, and it froze the first time I opened it. Now it’s fine.
SpokaneMsFan, Yes. Instead, hope for a 22 game losing streak for the Yankees to end the season. I will.
Did Joh just get up and walk to the dugout before the strike call? Kinda ballsy.
I can’t but grin at these daily “positive player” pieces in the P-I and/or Times. No shit you’re not completely out of it, but if you “still believe” why the hell didn’t you (i.e., the whole team) put up more of a fight during this recent swoon? What about two weeks of dreadful ball would hint at the positive–that you can’t possibly keep playing this lousy the rest of the year? Sorry, there needs to be a more tangible positive to build a serious run around. This team looks just demoralized.
Also, it’s easy to have a residual positive attitude while one’s making obscene amounts of cash. If the season ends early, you can head to a 4-star resort for two months and relax, completely forgetting about the past season. Meanwhile, the average baseball-loving fan looks forward to six dark months of Seattle weather and a wage-slave job.
(I don’t sound too cynical, do I?)
Boo terrible production values on mlb.tv by the Detroit crew.
They couldn’t even read the sign of that old dude because
of the terrible camera angle.
That means Mariners score now. Not that it matters anymore. . .
31 – Thanks, still not working here. I closed out and started again, no luck. Oh, well. Better than nothing.
#27. The strike box on GameDay disappeared late in last night’s games (I was watching the Red Sox game via GameDay), simultaneously delivering a MS error message that shut down my IE windows (something that happens a lot to IE with a flash player installed)
“Am I a bad fan if I want the Tigers to win because I hate the Yankees so much and think the Tigers have a much better chance of keeping them out of the playoffs then we do?”
Nope.
Myself, I’m rooting for failure so spectacular, a collapse so historic that Rob Neyer’s head pops off his body and starts its own column devoted to the [Mariners'] shame.
I want them to fail so monumentally that Nintendo transfers everyone from Armstrong to McLaren from the baseball team to the Wii remote wrist-strap testing department.
I want to see a losing streak so bad that we are still dreaming of snapping it on opening day 2008.
I want to see McLaren given a small electric shock everytime he trots out the “standard” line-up.
Ok, medium electric shock.
I want to see grown men cry.
Ok, I’m utterly convinced that I can run faster than Johjeema. At least for 90 feet.
Thanks, Karen.
Johjima is fleet like Ichiro. . .Ichiro with concrete boots carrying
a two-ton elephant on his back.
Timo Perez, seriously?
32 I’m all for that, but unfortunately years as an Ms fan have caused me to be a realist bordering on pessimist, and not at all an optimist. And the Yankees posting anything under .500 the rest of the way with their schedule is pretty optimistic. I mean we have an 8% chance at the playoffs, and the Tigers might not be much better, but I don’t think too many people even in the northwest would argue the Mariners have a better team than the Tigers.
Ok i take back what i said earlier…there is no hope for this team.
For those watching this on TV does it look like they are trying, or are they moping around with their heads down? Sure it’s a slim chance, but its still a chance they can go on a run and at least make the Yankees nervous
45 – They put Jose Lopez in a skirt and the other Mariners are rolling
around laughing maniacally and putting their fingers in their mouths
and saying duhhh. And Adam Jones is riding some fine, fine, fine pine.
#4. “Am I a bad fan if I want the Tigers to win because I hate the Yankees so much and think the Tigers have a much better chance of keeping them out of the playoffs then we do?â€
No.
The front office poobahs have fixed it so the bullpen is running on fumes, the starters are STILL barely able to get to 5 innings with a rare “quality start” sprinkled in here and there, the defense is as mired in cement as it has been all season and improves only when the poor fielders are on the DL, and the hitting is inconsistent, as has been said over and over again here.
Given all that, and 3 weeks left in the season to win 7 games to get to .500 let alone regain the ahead-of-the-Yanks position in the wild card, why not widen our focus to who else has a chance to beat out the Yankees?
Besides, I’d really like it if some team screwed up the sports networks, Fox, and MLB’s plan to get the Yankees in the (prime time, of course) playoff schedule, despite all the help they seem to be getting from certain quarters.
So they’re just mailing it in… gotcha
593! Griffey!
Again, see my prior post (#34) about this “positive player” nonsense. First one needs a concrete reason to be positive in this situation, and then something must be done to reinforce said positiveness.
Whoo hoo, thanks 49! I like being happy about something that happened in baseball.
WTF? A Mariners half inning takes as long as 1 Griffey AB.
Lopez is at the plate, I watch Griffey hit 593, Batista is on the mound with 1 out already.
how do you tell moping from being held down by Verlander?
53 They looked relieved to get to sit down after getting struck out if they’re moping. They actually look a little pissed off afterwards if they’re just being held down. (I’m “watching” gameday so not sure myself)
Rain! Yeah!
The best thing that’s happened to us all week – which shows how said this team is.
man, this year– rain?
rain would be good, why? I suppose it could get Verlander out of the game if the delay was long enough, but who would you want to pitch for the Ms?
A … what do you call that …. a run!
57- Parrish? Or is that a trick question?
The season started with snow. I expect a tornado here.
let me re-phrase that.
If rooting for a spectacular collapse, who pitches?
If still hanging in and rooting for a Mariner win, who pitches?
The worst part is teams seem like they don’t have to try to beat us. Verlander looks bored out there shutting us down. Garrett Anderson looked tired of running around the bases. McDonald looked like he was messing around at SS making all those plays. It is getting depressing.
57 – simply that we wouldn’t have to watch this; that was really my first (sarcastic)thought.
But really, if it gets Verlander out it helps, and anything that would interrupt the roll he’s on can’t hurt.
61- Still seems like a trick question. The “Mariner win” language seems like a lawyer trick.
But I have never seen Campillo pitch so I vote him.
has Batista really settled down, or are Los Tigres hurrying to get to the bottom of the 5th, in case the game is called?
Does anyone else think it’s funny the Tigers have a 6-4, 235 lb 1st baseman that has less power than Turbo?
and might be even slower…
66- It’s funnier that Sexson is an upgrade.
(66) Yeah, he looks like ‘The Mayor’ of Molassesville these days – all of his movements, including his swing, make him appear as though he’s stuck in a vat of syrup.
68 – Oooh good point, that is much funnier
must be great to be the “back to back” contestant in a game vs Verlander.
Call me kooky, but Detroit seems like a super candidate for a retractable roof stadium.
I think tonight’s comments help confirm that some M’s fans come here to root for the M’s to fail.
See Comment #4, #38, #47.
I understand the frustration level with the M’s, with the losing streak, with Bavasi, with McLaren, with Ibanez (especially when he’s not hitting), with Vidro (especially when he’s not hitting), with Johjima, with Horacio Ramirez, with Sexson, and so on.
But to root against your team when you’re only 3 games back is…going too far.
Go M’s!
4 – I know comment 10 already said this but I also felt like responding. Yes, you are.
god forbid you should take the first pitch thrown after a 31 minute rain delay.
Well, the M’s didn’t wait long to make it an official game. Too bad teams can’t be awarded runs for the speed with which they make outs.
73 – You’re rooting for short term success, I’m rooting for long term success. Support your team however you like. I happen to think it is better at this point for the Mariners to lose so badly that even they understand the need for change. You are free to feel differently, obviously.
Since rooting for a team has no detectable influence on the outcome, I say every fan for themselves as long as they’re not nasty about it.
w/r/t “root to fail”: I’m probably going to respond this way every time this comes up, but fuck you. Someone hates the Yankees enough to wonder if it’s wrong to root for the Tigers. Others want the M’s to fail so that systematic problems can be addressed.
So what? So what if they want more wins down the road for failure today? What’s wrong with that?
How many fans would say “no” if you said “the M’s are going to lose all the games for the rest of this year but go to the World Series in 2008″?
Are they rooting for the team to fail?
73,74 – I think I’ve gotten some good answers from both sides of the spectrum tonight. Truth be told I would love for the Ms to start a 10 game win streak tonight and not see them fail, and when I’m watching the game itself I can’t really “root” for the Tigers. But we all know that if nothing else our incompetent manager won’t allow that win streak to happen even if everybody is on their A game. If some people still want to live in a fantasy world, fine, but the next best thing to the Ms winning the series is the Yankees not even making the playoffs. And if you’ve been watching the last couple weeks and you take off the rosy glasses, you know darn well we aren’t going to be the team to do that. All that said I’d be absolutely elated if I’m wrong, and enjoy the fantasy world for those of you that are in it.
I think it’s significant that GameDay says the Mariners have left only ONE runner on base through 5 innings…
I’m not rooting for them to fail in any sense. They’ve failed no matter
how I root.
At this point I’m just rooting for some Adam Jones starts. Sitting him
hasn’t worked so geez, JMac, give him 2-3 starts a week.
And please God don’t let Sexson come back from his injury as he was
threatening to do. Please, no more. Let him go wherever Rick White
went. I know, it won’t happen. Sigh.
79 – Thanks DMZ, that was put much better than anything I could have come up with. And everyone please excuse my run on paragraph in post 80.
You keep losing long enough, the city loses interest and the team moves away.
I guess it’s all on the assumption that losing every game from here on out would actually lead to changes in the front office that would benefit the team in the coming years. I’m not confident enough in that happening to root against the M’s, but to each his own.
But if we’re way down by next weekend, I might quietly root for Carl Crawford and Scott Kazmir to kick some ass and help me win some money in my fantasy playoffs. I feel dirty.
Geoff Baker is sending up the white flag over at his blog. He just posted this:
“This lineup looks like it could use a boost. Some new blood. At least for a night.”
I like Ben Broussard playing. Watching his swing instead of Sexson’s just makes me happy.
RE: #27, 31, 37, GameDay strike box: The GameDay display is at MLB.com.
I wonder if some intern was assigned to surf message boards and blogs, and reported back to the bigwigs that there were a LOT of complaints out there from fans about how the umpires’ strike zones don’t happen to come close to the GameDay strike zone?
So somebody pulled the plug on that little feature…
I root for the Tigers because they’ve been one of my favorite teams since the mid 80s. I’d rather have the Tigers sweep this series than have the M’s win one game, to give the Tigers a better chance of getting the Wild Card than the Yanks. But an M’s sweep would be just dandy, as long as they can keep the momentum.
84 – The M’s didn’t have a winning season until 1991. The team threatened to move but didn’t. How was fan interest in the mid-late 90s? The M’s lost a boatload of games between 2004 and 2006. Has the city lost interest?
Reed? Seriously? If only we had a power left handed bat (Clement) instead of a washed up prospect (Reed)…
Can someone who know more about baseball than me please explain why we just pinch hit Reed right there?
Well, Reed for Lopez didn’t work. I can just guess what the defensive alignment will be, next half inning.
91- John McLaren can’t even tell you…
Dude, okay, if our front office is worth a shit, they will figure out that Johnny Mac has a spot as a bench coach, and we need a serious manager to take the reigns. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? REED???? there’s a couple of names that have been mentioned about three thousand times on this board that could have been used before him…. Instead, nice K. Freakin’ moron.
You start a limping cripple like Lopez, give up his first 2 at bats as almost a given and then put in September call up Reed to pinch hit when it really counts. This is managing?
- wait, our front office sucks, who am I kidding – Johnny Mac for president!!!!!
Is there anything left to say about this team? because I am honently speachless
At least Betancourt took that first ball — a pitch so near his adams apple even a Mariner batter couldn’t figure out a way to swing on it.
The only possible explaination: Reed has more major league experience. Fuck.
84 – Most sports franchises that have moved didn’t move because the teams were perpetual losers. Those were market-based decisions.
You guys are worried about the decision to use Reed as a pinch hitter?? What you should be worried about is that right now McLaren is trying to figure out how he can get Rick White into this game. Wait until he calls the BP and realizes that White ain’t on the team anymore.
How predictable. Curtis Granderson whacks the Mariners upside the head for leaving the bases loaded.
Fortunately, we’re letting Batista go too long, as usual, so the line up and pinch-hitting problems will kind of fade into obscurity. Too bad Ichiro is probably too polite to pull McClaren aside to explain some ancient and honorable Japanese traditions that are extremely appropriate when a field general fails his master utterly. Contract renewal should never even come up if McClaren was an honorable man.
Seppuku, argh?
“were” an honorable man. I’m so pissed off the subjunctive fails me.
I’ve got a man-crush on Curtis Granderson. Excellent speed, very good defense, 21 triples, and an OPS of .900+. Oh yeah, and I have his jersey, though I’m not wearing it tonight.
Seppuku, argh?
With a dull knife, Karen.
I suppose if I accepted the notion that a (substantial?) number of serious M’s fans are watching tonight’s game, actively hoping for a loss because it will teach management a valuable lesson that will in the long-term lead to a more analytical approach resulting in more wins, pleased that Betancourt stranded three runners, and ecstatic that Granderson went yard, I would be more accepting of fans rooting against their own team in the middle of a playoff chase.
But I think everyone posting here wanted a baseknock from Betancourt.
Just one man’s opinion.
From Stone’s column “The Mariners have done much to lament, plenty to second-guess. If this collapse continues, I daresay heads will roll.”
One can only hope.
Tigers look good. It’s hard to believe that in 2003 they went 43-119. I used to root for them as a underdog but now they are just fun to watch.
Re: 108: It’s perfectly possible to root for Betancourt to knock in 4 runs while expecting the poor performance that actually occurred.
So you’re arguing that people come here to cheer for the M’s to lose but truly want them to win?
I don’t know what your point is, but you’re not making sense.
Sean White, Rick White.. what is the difference?
They both suck.
#108. I think you can safely say we’re of at least 2 minds about the situation, hititagain…
#108 and #114
3 minds.
Rick White is Sean White’s future self.
I think that since the season is over, we should dedicate the rest of the year to seeing how our young guys look. We know how Lopez, Ibanez and Betancourt and Beltre can do. I would like to see AJ play every other day. I wanna see if J Reed can live up to his potential. Also, Clement should get a few games behind the dish. I want to know what these guys are made of for next season. This way, the front office can assess their value and decide what to prioritize in free agency.
If…if only we’d been better fans. If only we hadn’t rooted for their failure. If only our collective thoughts had been more positive.
**sob**
117… I agree. That way, Bavasi can trade Jones and Clement for, say, Matt Stairs.
“He brings a powerful lefty bat to the lineup.” – Bavasi
“It’s going to be hard juggling all the terrific outfielders on our team – Ichiro, Ibanez, Guillen, and Stairs. But it will let us give Ichiro some well-needed rest.” – McLaren
In other news, the KC Royals are proving to be as inept as the Mariners in RISP situations. Score still tied 2-2 with Yankees, but we all know how they can outwait an opposing pitcher and score off the bullpen.
I’m all for rooting for this team to lose this year if it means no more McLaren beyond 2007.
To quote Robert E. Lee’s last words:
“Strike the tent!”
How many months until Spring Training?
117: I agree 100%. Put as many young guys in as you can. Some will fall on their face but others will probably surprise us and show us something to get excited about heading into the offseason. The way things are going (I notice less and less posts here and in Baker’s blog) fans will continue to cash out on the season and focus on football. At least give us something to hold onto.
119: I agree 100% which makes how I feel about playing the younger guys that much more depressing. Why did I have to be a Seattle sports fan? What did I do to piss off the sports gods???
Perhaps somebody has already posted this, but it seems particularly apropos after another crappy game. It’s from the Last Days column in the current issue of the Stranger. As a lead-in, I remind you that on the night of August 30 was the night they lost their sixth in a row in Cleveland, when JJ rode the pines while Rick White came in to walk in two runs and lose the game:
FRIDAY, AUGUST 31 The week continues with an exceedingly well-documented Seattle suicide, first noted around 11:00 p.m. last night, when 911 dispatchers received a call about a body seen floating in Lake Washington. According to the Seattle Times, police identified the body as Tobias Allen, whose death authorities will attribute to suicide. According to his MySpace profile, Allen was a 39-year-old single Libra with a penchant for the Mariners, existential drama, and exclamation points. “Most days it feels/seems that most people are mindless fucking sheep,” wrote Allen in his MySpace blog on June 15 [sic throughout]. “I’m talking about the people that actually waste presious oxygine talking about Paris Hell-ton. Who gives a fuck? Vapid little bitch… look, now I’m doing it! Thank the powers that be that the aurora bridge is only minutes away. I may need it soon!” By August 4, things were looking up: “Just when I was ready to give up on another summer…. my sweet sweet M’s start kicking ass! I’m about to grin, or cry, or something. This has been one of THEE LAMEST summers of my life, to date. I was really going nuts. Then the mighty M’s start kickin some ass! I guess, if they can do it, so can I! I have to see the end of the season! Maybe I will turn 40….” He didn’t.
#122
“Damn the Yankees!”
How come the guys over at Athletics Nation seem like they’re having more fun than us? That’s just poetic.
By the way. are they’re any Onion subscribers out there? The day we lost the last game to the Yankees, the headline of the Onion sports page was, “FUCKIN’ YANKEES, NATION REPORTS.” That actually lifted my spirits a bit.
P.S. How awesome is Curtis Granderson? Dude’s 5 triples away from the A.L. record, and has 20+ homers, doubles and triples, first guy since George Brett to do so.
79 – “So what? So what if they want more wins down the road for failure today? What’s wrong with that?”
Failure today means more wins down the road. Thanks for the info, I didn’t know there was that ensured cause and effect.
For all the talk about straw man arguments that sure seems like one. I thought the conversation was about rooting for Detroit because the some were so down on the team. They figured we had absolutely no chance so might as well route for the Tigers to beat the M’s and catch the Yanks.
If it was all about ensuring success for the future then of course “who cares nothing wrong about that” as you say and f**k you to me.
I want the Ms to lose every game left in the season.
I want new management that will play the young exciting kids.
I want a future that I don’t see with the current management.
Say we defy the odds and make playoffs this year. Is that really what you want? Would Johnny Mac be able to manage a playoff win? Very doubtful. Much less a series…
I’ve been a Mariners fan, and I’m going to be one for a long time. The slight satisfaction of making the playoffs today is nothing compared to having a contending team for the next few years.
Does the Ms losing ever game guarantee success in the future? No way. But even if we get to the playoffs this year, I won’t be excited. So why not hope for something to be excited about in years to come?
I want Jones to play. I also am not a big fan of Mac either after not being able to show any ‘platooning’ ability and due to his bullpen management of late. Not being able to develop even a 5 man 4 spot platoon rotation is inexcusable. I’m not sure how much control Bavasi has on who plays and I’m not sure if Fontaine and Engle are tied to him so I don’t know if I want him back. I due recognize many bad moves of his. I am not a Vidro fan.
I do want the M’s to win even though I no they have little chance of catching the Yanks.
Gah, not even 150 posts…guess we can tell the Seahawks start playing in about 38 hours or so!
or, people had things to do on a friday …
Or the Mariners have lost 12 of 13 and currently look worse than the Royals (who found a way to lose by only 1 run to the Yankees and have about the same run differential on RS & RA).
How long before the Blue Jays overtake us for the WC?
We just are not good anymore… It was fun though August at least.
Does anyone think the M’s can win another game this year? Maybe Felix will pitch well? Hmm. I think he can do it. I don’t know though. All the other teams seem so much more POWERFUL. Jeez.
Hello? Anybody out there?
It’s lonely in here. And depressing.
I just checked Baseball-Reference.com and a couple other teams have actually had worse stretches than this Mariner 1-12 cliff dive. D-Rays were 1-14 in May/June. White Sox had a 3-17 and a 3-18 run. I didn’t think I’d find any worse than the last 2 weeks for the M’s. But we are in some bad company.
I’m sure we’ll win at least ONE more — we’ve got a four-game coming up at home against TB.
Then again…
135: We are, I think, 2.5 games ahead of them, so 3 days.
FWIW, Ken Rosenthal at FoxSports:
The demise of the Mariners can be traced to their rotation, which ranks 27th in the majors in ERA. The season-long failure of the starters to pitch deep into games is one reason the bullpen collapsed during the team’s current 1-11 slide.
The Mariners’ offense, however, is not without blame.
Seattle hitters are the least patient in the AL, averaging the fewest pitches per plate appearance and the lowest walk rate. The Mariners rarely wear down opposing starters, adding to the pitching disparity that exists between them and other clubs.
“We’re not a bases-on-balls club,” Mariners manager John McLaren says. “We’ve talked about this at length. We want them to learn from this. But I think it’s a double-edged sword. (Increased patience) might take away from what we are — a free-swinging club.”
The Mariners’ hacking style actually creates its own set of problems for opposing pitchers, according to one veteran AL starter. Pitchers, knowing the M’s will come out swinging, are more inclined to nibble than throw strikes, leading to hitters’ counts.
McLaren, though, is not satisfied.
“A lot of guys take the first pitch and think they’re being patient,” McLaren says. “That’s not patience to me. It might be the only pitch they get to hit. On 2-0, 2-1, 3-1, you should be looking for certain pitches. If you don’t get the pitch, you take it. If we could improve in those areas, we’d be a lot better off — a lot better.”
Is it about time to crank up the Winter Hot Stove League yet?
And how many more days before M’s pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training?
I think 124 may contain the most awesome valdedictory for a dead season I’ve ever read.
“They killed Tobias! The bastards!”
“Awesome”? That’s a human life that ended.. much for significant than the season, for my money..
much *more* significant than the season..
According to coolstandings.com, our playoff chances are now below 3%, so the reason to choose between “root for this team” and “root for next year’s team” seems to be getting exponentially smaller.
Think of it. Just a couple of weeks ago ESPN.com/MLB had a front page article on the Mariners, lauding them for lying in the weeds and sneaking up on the WC lead and holding it for a time.
Right after that the M’s lost the WC lead, and now we have Ken Rosenthal and today, Peter Gammons, giving the M’s attention of a different sort. Or no attention at all, really, from Gammons.
It’s an Insider article, but the gist of it is the title: Farmhands a factor in races. Gammons lists all the in-organization moves contending teams made to make their team better or to fill in for injuries. “Player development has been the story of the American League races,” says one GM.
There is no mention whatsoever of the Mariners, or Adam Jones, in the article, for reasons obvious to us here.
140 – PADJ, thanks for the Rosenthal quotes.
I want to meet the “AL starter” that said our free swinging leads to more hitters’ counts. That seems totally absurd logic.
If we’re swinging away and not seeing pitches, how are we taking pitches to get hitters’ counts?
Maybe he’s saying that the team COULD, if they were smart, take advantage of their reputation… but since they aren’t, what was the point of that whole paragraph? Or of Mac’s first quote? Double-edged sword my hiney.
146 – Karen, that’s brutal. And awesome. I wonder if anyone in the organization a) reads Gammons and b) would get the point?
Lineup out for today – back to the totally awesome Xeroxed veteranosity that got us here in the first place – including Richie.