Game 139, Mariners at Tigers

DMZ · September 7, 2007 at 3:23 pm · Filed Under Game Threads 

4:05. Batista v Verlander.

I wonder, now that the playoff race is pretty much done, if I’ll be able to sit back and enjoy the game without worrying every error is going to cost the team their chances. I wonder if they’ll finally spread some playing time around and…

Nope. Well then. Let’s watch some baseball.


148 Responses to “Game 139, Mariners at Tigers”

  1. DizzleChizzle on September 7th, 2007 6:25 pm

    You guys are worried about the decision to use Reed as a pinch hitter?? What you should be worried about is that right now McLaren is trying to figure out how he can get Rick White into this game. Wait until he calls the BP and realizes that White ain’t on the team anymore.

  2. Karen on September 7th, 2007 6:25 pm

    How predictable. Curtis Granderson whacks the Mariners upside the head for leaving the bases loaded.

  3. argh on September 7th, 2007 6:27 pm

    Fortunately, we’re letting Batista go too long, as usual, so the line up and pinch-hitting problems will kind of fade into obscurity. Too bad Ichiro is probably too polite to pull McClaren aside to explain some ancient and honorable Japanese traditions that are extremely appropriate when a field general fails his master utterly. Contract renewal should never even come up if McClaren was an honorable man.

  4. Karen on September 7th, 2007 6:28 pm

    Seppuku, argh?

  5. argh on September 7th, 2007 6:28 pm

    “were” an honorable man. I’m so pissed off the subjunctive fails me.

  6. kenshabby on September 7th, 2007 6:29 pm

    I’ve got a man-crush on Curtis Granderson. Excellent speed, very good defense, 21 triples, and an OPS of .900+. Oh yeah, and I have his jersey, though I’m not wearing it tonight.

  7. argh on September 7th, 2007 6:29 pm

    Seppuku, argh?

    With a dull knife, Karen.

  8. hititagainandagainandagain on September 7th, 2007 6:29 pm

    I suppose if I accepted the notion that a (substantial?) number of serious M’s fans are watching tonight’s game, actively hoping for a loss because it will teach management a valuable lesson that will in the long-term lead to a more analytical approach resulting in more wins, pleased that Betancourt stranded three runners, and ecstatic that Granderson went yard, I would be more accepting of fans rooting against their own team in the middle of a playoff chase.

    But I think everyone posting here wanted a baseknock from Betancourt.

    Just one man’s opinion.

  9. Dugan on September 7th, 2007 6:30 pm

    From Stone’s column “The Mariners have done much to lament, plenty to second-guess. If this collapse continues, I daresay heads will roll.”

    One can only hope.

  10. Russ on September 7th, 2007 6:31 pm

    Tigers look good. It’s hard to believe that in 2003 they went 43-119. I used to root for them as a underdog but now they are just fun to watch.

  11. argh on September 7th, 2007 6:35 pm

    Re: 108: It’s perfectly possible to root for Betancourt to knock in 4 runs while expecting the poor performance that actually occurred.

  12. DMZ on September 7th, 2007 6:35 pm

    So you’re arguing that people come here to cheer for the M’s to lose but truly want them to win?

    I don’t know what your point is, but you’re not making sense.

  13. Ichy on September 7th, 2007 6:36 pm

    Sean White, Rick White.. what is the difference?

    They both suck.

  14. Karen on September 7th, 2007 6:36 pm

    #108. I think you can safely say we’re of at least 2 minds about the situation, hititagain…

  15. Ichy on September 7th, 2007 6:37 pm

    #108 and #114

    3 minds.

  16. Teej on September 7th, 2007 6:37 pm

    Rick White is Sean White’s future self.

  17. Ichy on September 7th, 2007 6:39 pm

    I think that since the season is over, we should dedicate the rest of the year to seeing how our young guys look. We know how Lopez, Ibanez and Betancourt and Beltre can do. I would like to see AJ play every other day. I wanna see if J Reed can live up to his potential. Also, Clement should get a few games behind the dish. I want to know what these guys are made of for next season. This way, the front office can assess their value and decide what to prioritize in free agency.

  18. kenshabby on September 7th, 2007 6:59 pm

    If…if only we’d been better fans. If only we hadn’t rooted for their failure. If only our collective thoughts had been more positive. 🙁 **sob**

  19. (Expletive) Dave Samson on September 7th, 2007 7:01 pm

    117… I agree. That way, Bavasi can trade Jones and Clement for, say, Matt Stairs.

    “He brings a powerful lefty bat to the lineup.” – Bavasi
    “It’s going to be hard juggling all the terrific outfielders on our team – Ichiro, Ibanez, Guillen, and Stairs. But it will let us give Ichiro some well-needed rest.” – McLaren

  20. Karen on September 7th, 2007 7:06 pm

    In other news, the KC Royals are proving to be as inept as the Mariners in RISP situations. Score still tied 2-2 with Yankees, but we all know how they can outwait an opposing pitcher and score off the bullpen.

  21. Sports on a Schtick on September 7th, 2007 7:11 pm

    I’m all for rooting for this team to lose this year if it means no more McLaren beyond 2007.

  22. rexpresto on September 7th, 2007 7:52 pm

    To quote Robert E. Lee’s last words:
    “Strike the tent!”
    How many months until Spring Training?

  23. AD_ROY84 on September 7th, 2007 7:52 pm

    117: I agree 100%. Put as many young guys in as you can. Some will fall on their face but others will probably surprise us and show us something to get excited about heading into the offseason. The way things are going (I notice less and less posts here and in Baker’s blog) fans will continue to cash out on the season and focus on football. At least give us something to hold onto.

    119: I agree 100% which makes how I feel about playing the younger guys that much more depressing. Why did I have to be a Seattle sports fan? What did I do to piss off the sports gods???

  24. ducky on September 7th, 2007 7:52 pm

    Perhaps somebody has already posted this, but it seems particularly apropos after another crappy game. It’s from the Last Days column in the current issue of the Stranger. As a lead-in, I remind you that on the night of August 30 was the night they lost their sixth in a row in Cleveland, when JJ rode the pines while Rick White came in to walk in two runs and lose the game:

    FRIDAY, AUGUST 31 The week continues with an exceedingly well-documented Seattle suicide, first noted around 11:00 p.m. last night, when 911 dispatchers received a call about a body seen floating in Lake Washington. According to the Seattle Times, police identified the body as Tobias Allen, whose death authorities will attribute to suicide. According to his MySpace profile, Allen was a 39-year-old single Libra with a penchant for the Mariners, existential drama, and exclamation points. “Most days it feels/seems that most people are mindless fucking sheep,” wrote Allen in his MySpace blog on June 15 [sic throughout]. “I’m talking about the people that actually waste presious oxygine talking about Paris Hell-ton. Who gives a fuck? Vapid little bitch… look, now I’m doing it! Thank the powers that be that the aurora bridge is only minutes away. I may need it soon!” By August 4, things were looking up: “Just when I was ready to give up on another summer…. my sweet sweet M’s start kicking ass! I’m about to grin, or cry, or something. This has been one of THEE LAMEST summers of my life, to date. I was really going nuts. Then the mighty M’s start kickin some ass! I guess, if they can do it, so can I! I have to see the end of the season! Maybe I will turn 40….” He didn’t.

  25. Sports on a Schtick on September 7th, 2007 8:00 pm


    “Damn the Yankees!”

  26. earinc on September 7th, 2007 8:01 pm

    How come the guys over at Athletics Nation seem like they’re having more fun than us? That’s just poetic.

  27. earinc on September 7th, 2007 8:03 pm

    By the way. are they’re any Onion subscribers out there? The day we lost the last game to the Yankees, the headline of the Onion sports page was, “FUCKIN’ YANKEES, NATION REPORTS.” That actually lifted my spirits a bit.

  28. earinc on September 7th, 2007 8:05 pm

    P.S. How awesome is Curtis Granderson? Dude’s 5 triples away from the A.L. record, and has 20+ homers, doubles and triples, first guy since George Brett to do so.

  29. Reign on September 7th, 2007 9:32 pm

    79 – “So what? So what if they want more wins down the road for failure today? What’s wrong with that?”

    Failure today means more wins down the road. Thanks for the info, I didn’t know there was that ensured cause and effect.

    For all the talk about straw man arguments that sure seems like one. I thought the conversation was about rooting for Detroit because the some were so down on the team. They figured we had absolutely no chance so might as well route for the Tigers to beat the M’s and catch the Yanks.

    If it was all about ensuring success for the future then of course “who cares nothing wrong about that” as you say and f**k you to me.

  30. lailaihei on September 7th, 2007 9:43 pm

    I want the Ms to lose every game left in the season.
    I want new management that will play the young exciting kids.
    I want a future that I don’t see with the current management.

    Say we defy the odds and make playoffs this year. Is that really what you want? Would Johnny Mac be able to manage a playoff win? Very doubtful. Much less a series…
    I’ve been a Mariners fan, and I’m going to be one for a long time. The slight satisfaction of making the playoffs today is nothing compared to having a contending team for the next few years.

    Does the Ms losing ever game guarantee success in the future? No way. But even if we get to the playoffs this year, I won’t be excited. So why not hope for something to be excited about in years to come?

  31. Reign on September 7th, 2007 10:10 pm

    I want Jones to play. I also am not a big fan of Mac either after not being able to show any ‘platooning’ ability and due to his bullpen management of late. Not being able to develop even a 5 man 4 spot platoon rotation is inexcusable. I’m not sure how much control Bavasi has on who plays and I’m not sure if Fontaine and Engle are tied to him so I don’t know if I want him back. I due recognize many bad moves of his. I am not a Vidro fan.

    I do want the M’s to win even though I no they have little chance of catching the Yanks.

  32. scott19 on September 7th, 2007 10:32 pm

    Gah, not even 150 posts…guess we can tell the Seahawks start playing in about 38 hours or so!

  33. msb on September 7th, 2007 10:43 pm

    or, people had things to do on a friday …

  34. theraven on September 7th, 2007 11:23 pm

    Or the Mariners have lost 12 of 13 and currently look worse than the Royals (who found a way to lose by only 1 run to the Yankees and have about the same run differential on RS & RA).

  35. davepaisley on September 7th, 2007 11:24 pm

    How long before the Blue Jays overtake us for the WC?

  36. HamNasty on September 7th, 2007 11:36 pm

    We just are not good anymore… It was fun though August at least.

  37. Dan W on September 7th, 2007 11:36 pm

    Does anyone think the M’s can win another game this year? Maybe Felix will pitch well? Hmm. I think he can do it. I don’t know though. All the other teams seem so much more POWERFUL. Jeez.

    Hello? Anybody out there?

    It’s lonely in here. And depressing.

    I just checked and a couple other teams have actually had worse stretches than this Mariner 1-12 cliff dive. D-Rays were 1-14 in May/June. White Sox had a 3-17 and a 3-18 run. I didn’t think I’d find any worse than the last 2 weeks for the M’s. But we are in some bad company.

  38. scott19 on September 7th, 2007 11:57 pm

    I’m sure we’ll win at least ONE more — we’ve got a four-game coming up at home against TB.

    Then again…

  39. _David_ on September 7th, 2007 11:57 pm

    135: We are, I think, 2.5 games ahead of them, so 3 days.

  40. PADJ on September 8th, 2007 12:16 am

    FWIW, Ken Rosenthal at FoxSports:

    The demise of the Mariners can be traced to their rotation, which ranks 27th in the majors in ERA. The season-long failure of the starters to pitch deep into games is one reason the bullpen collapsed during the team’s current 1-11 slide.

    The Mariners’ offense, however, is not without blame.

    Seattle hitters are the least patient in the AL, averaging the fewest pitches per plate appearance and the lowest walk rate. The Mariners rarely wear down opposing starters, adding to the pitching disparity that exists between them and other clubs.

    “We’re not a bases-on-balls club,” Mariners manager John McLaren says. “We’ve talked about this at length. We want them to learn from this. But I think it’s a double-edged sword. (Increased patience) might take away from what we are — a free-swinging club.”

    The Mariners’ hacking style actually creates its own set of problems for opposing pitchers, according to one veteran AL starter. Pitchers, knowing the M’s will come out swinging, are more inclined to nibble than throw strikes, leading to hitters’ counts.

    McLaren, though, is not satisfied.

    “A lot of guys take the first pitch and think they’re being patient,” McLaren says. “That’s not patience to me. It might be the only pitch they get to hit. On 2-0, 2-1, 3-1, you should be looking for certain pitches. If you don’t get the pitch, you take it. If we could improve in those areas, we’d be a lot better off — a lot better.”

  41. mln on September 8th, 2007 2:12 am

    Is it about time to crank up the Winter Hot Stove League yet?

    And how many more days before M’s pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training?

  42. argh on September 8th, 2007 7:02 am

    I think 124 may contain the most awesome valdedictory for a dead season I’ve ever read.

    “They killed Tobias! The bastards!”

  43. WardP on September 8th, 2007 11:34 am

    “Awesome”? That’s a human life that ended.. much for significant than the season, for my money..

  44. WardP on September 8th, 2007 11:34 am

    much *more* significant than the season..

  45. jlc on September 8th, 2007 12:09 pm

    According to, our playoff chances are now below 3%, so the reason to choose between “root for this team” and “root for next year’s team” seems to be getting exponentially smaller.

  46. Karen on September 8th, 2007 12:17 pm

    Think of it. Just a couple of weeks ago had a front page article on the Mariners, lauding them for lying in the weeds and sneaking up on the WC lead and holding it for a time.

    Right after that the M’s lost the WC lead, and now we have Ken Rosenthal and today, Peter Gammons, giving the M’s attention of a different sort. Or no attention at all, really, from Gammons.

    It’s an Insider article, but the gist of it is the title: Farmhands a factor in races. Gammons lists all the in-organization moves contending teams made to make their team better or to fill in for injuries. “Player development has been the story of the American League races,” says one GM.

    There is no mention whatsoever of the Mariners, or Adam Jones, in the article, for reasons obvious to us here.

  47. John in L.A. on September 8th, 2007 2:45 pm

    140 – PADJ, thanks for the Rosenthal quotes.

    I want to meet the “AL starter” that said our free swinging leads to more hitters’ counts. That seems totally absurd logic.

    If we’re swinging away and not seeing pitches, how are we taking pitches to get hitters’ counts?

    Maybe he’s saying that the team COULD, if they were smart, take advantage of their reputation… but since they aren’t, what was the point of that whole paragraph? Or of Mac’s first quote? Double-edged sword my hiney.

    146 – Karen, that’s brutal. And awesome. I wonder if anyone in the organization a) reads Gammons and b) would get the point?

  48. davepaisley on September 8th, 2007 3:20 pm

    Lineup out for today – back to the totally awesome Xeroxed veteranosity that got us here in the first place – including Richie.

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