M’s purge coaching staff
The M’s overhauled their coaching staff today, relieving everyone except for hitting coach Jeff Pentland of their duties. Gone are pitching coach Rafael Chaves, third base coach Carlos Garcia, bench coach Mike Goff, and bullpen coach Jim Slaton. First base coach Gary Thurman has been reassigned back to the minor leagues, where he’s spent most of his time with the Mariner organization before this year.
This is basically all about letting John McLaren choose his own staff. None of these guys were his hires, and it’s standard practice in baseball to let a manager surround himself with coaches of his own choosing. Some advice to the people McLaren chooses, however – rent, don’t buy, because your future is tied to that of your manager, and you better win a lot next year or this will be a twelve month gig.
I’m quite curious as to whom McLaren shall pick for these spots. Where will he look? Will we see some promotions from within the organization, or some good ol’ boys from elsewhere?
Baker suggests Charlton may be the bullpen coach. I don’t know anything about his coaching credentials. I just can’t unmix him in my mind from Rick White.
I am still boggled that McLaren was rewarded for leading directly out of contention into also-ran status with the full-time job.
Is Chaves due any of the criticism for the Mariners’ tendency to “establish the fastball” in the first inning?
You’ve pointed out here how the M’s starters almost uniformly got shellacked in the first inning.
What does USSM say about the coaching staff and it’s impact on players? Do they matter even less than the manager?
It doesn’t sound like Hargrove/Mac gave a huge amount of authority to their coaches. The unbelievable thing to me about the whole Felix letter thing (Yea, USSM) was that Chaves had been trying to get Felix to listen to him. Even given that Felix is a gem in the rough, you don’t have to think very long to come up with a list of managers who would have told the player, do what we say or else. Sounds like the same thing applies to Pentland and the free-swinging team, which Mac really likes.
Both Chaves and Slaton are losses, I think. They can’t seriously be blamed for the performances of Weaver, Ramirez, et al., while those who brought them in skate. Can they?
Apparently so – though I know Dave is right about the reason for these firings. Less about performance than it is about letting Mac have “his guys.”
Mel Stottlemyre, anybody?
I wonder if Dave Myers is available for third base coach.
9. Ha.
from the previous thread:
wonder if the players had suspicions about this– Chaves & Felix certainly both were emotional after the final game
Bravo, this is exactly how to go about fixing a dysfunctional organization – from the bottom up.
Any good chef will tell you that. If people are getting sick and throwing up after eating your fish… then for god’s sake, replace the parsley.
And then promise that if another couple hundred thousand people get sick, then, by god, you’ll think about admitting it wasn’t the parsley.
Is Chaves due any of the criticism for the Mariners’ tendency to “establish the fastball” in the first inning?
You’ve pointed out here how the M’s starters almost uniformly got shellacked in the first inning.
It’s more an organizational philosophy, and accordingly the first-inning woes have been a common issue. I distinctly remember a lot of handwringing over Pineiro, back when he could throw hard, getting roughed up in the first inning before he would “settle down.”
I know people seem to hate Chaves’ “Run & Shoot” style as third base coach, but I’d wager he gained us more runs than he cost us. A regular refrain I saw on the USSM comment log was this:
“Chaves is going to cost a game one of these days.” – Almost always after Chaves sends the runner who scores.
I have it in my head that there are two or three instances where we won games on aggressive running at third base, but conversely I don’t know of any games that Chaves cost us. I’m all for aggressive running at third base, especially given the M’s early-count, double-play-grounding-in-to ways.
Pentland seems a poor holdover… I think the research has shown that hitting coaches don’t matter at the major league level, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a correlation between a coach and the pitches per plate appearance.
fetish – Chaves was the pitching coach. Garcia was the 3rd base coach.
msb/11: Baker is speculating about both Sam Perlozzo and Lee Elia…..
okay, in my last post, please replace any reference to Chaves with Garcia. brain fart.
14 – Chaves wasn’t the 3rd base coach in any games I remember.
And while my memory differs significantly from yours, I don’t have any numbers to support it, so I’ll take any who does have number’s word for it.
I am confident enough about the first half of last year (when Hargrove’s infamous “aggressive baserunning” initiative was in full swing) to comment: that was a disaster.
The other thing Baker mentioned, and I didn’t remember this, was that Garcia was originally brought in as a 1st base coach, and only ended up at 3rd “because of circumstance.” They really aren’t the same job, and if he didn’t have much experience coaching third, I imagine it would lead to mistakes.
I see Baker mentioned Perlozzo & Elia’s availability … Hickey has his report up as well; he mentions the close relationship Chaves & Felix have.
Drayer’s blog entry preceeded the announcement– she mentioned the likelihood of it happening, and that she’d post more when it happened; she also mentions that Felix is getting married over the winter…
Jeff Newman left the season early to have knee surgery, and Garcia moved over to third
How about Enrico Palazzo?
21. I love Leslie Nielsen.
Couldn’t be happier that Carlos Garcia is gone.
In my crazed mind, hire the alumni.
Jay Buhner for bench.
Edgar Martinez for hitting.
Norm Charlton for pitching.
Yes I am on crack, but I would love to see these guys back in the clubhouse.
Feel free to remind me that I’m on crack.
I feel sorry for these guys as a group.
It must be incredibly frustrating to lose your job because someone who is demonstrably sh***y at his doesn’t.
I bet there is a lot of drinking going on.
I mean, we complain a lot about the incompetence of Lincoln and Armstrong, but these poor s.o.b.’s actually lost their livelihood because of it.
I know it is the nature of the beast, I know the probably would have been gone anyway, etc. But they still have to be thinking, “We were doing our job fine before this idiot took over. So why are we the ones unemployed.”
Who can blame them? If I saw them in the bar, I’d buy them a drink.
I agree, Garcia cost the M’s a few runs with his tactics at 3rd. I am curious/worried to see how Mac assembles his coaching staff. Yea, I remember reading an article about how hitting coaches really don’t affect the hitter, how they just watch them in the batting cages, and are usually the scapegoats when the players aren’t hitting. The Mariners being the offensive force they are probably credited pentland for their success.
8 – Also, itd could work having Stottlemyre as the pitching coach. He lives in Issaquah, where i used to live, so he could be enticed to take the hometown job. I mean only 20 minute commute to work, for a job like his, would probably be nice for him?
I also love the idea that the best thing to do here is give the incompetent guy MORE power. I’m sure he hires as wisely as he fills out a line-up card.
You’d think that somebody would say “Everybody? He wants to fire everybody? Are we that sure he’s going to be around in 12 months that we want to get rid of all continuity?… Besides, we’re just gonna have to do it all over again when La Russa comes onboard.”
24: Bone might indeed make an interesting choice as bench coach. He would certainly lend new meaning to “lighting a fire under some guys’ butts”!
John in LA – “Continuity” is why we kept the GM, and the manager, and the grizzled vets. Don’t need it anywhere else…
Hope they wait for the postseason to shake out before making hires. With all the possible sweeps, there may be a lot of coaches who don’t suck fired next week if front offices are looking for scapegoats.
Wait, that assumes the M’s front office would take advantage of someone other FO’s stupidity. What was I thinking? Never mind.
This is hilarious. Isn’t Pentland the one that basically gave up on his duties? Are they retaining him, because no one else in their right mind would take on some of these hitters who refuse to take the advice of patience?
Don’t feel bad for the coaches…they would have been gone if they fired McLaren anyway. They were granted the benefit of keeping their jobs for the remainder of the season once Hargrove left and that’s all they could legitimately ask for. Managers get to pick their coaches and I don’t think it makes sense to change that practice.
33- “Don’t feel bad for the coaches…they would have been gone if they fired McLaren anyway.”
Neither of us know whether that is true or not. And why can’t I still feel bad for them? They lost their jobs, fair or otherwise.
“Granted the benefit…”
You think there was any chance of firing all of them mid-season?
“…and that’s all they could legitimately ask for.”
I disagree. Any of them who performed well, could “legitimately” ask to be rewarded for it.
“Managers get to pick their coaches and I don’t think it makes sense to change that practice.”
I think it makes enormous sense, given that McLaren is not particularly bright. If I was the owner I wouldn’t let him keep his job. If I did let him keep his job temporarily, I wouldn’t let him sabotage the team in any way whatsoever. And I would insist any firing this guy wanted to do be approved before he did it.
Until he showed me that he deserved more power, he wouldn’t get it.
Shouldn’t keep him on as manger in the first place, you say? Bingo.
Put it this way… if he was a chauffeur, I’d let him drive my car and let him wash my car… but I sure as hell wouldn’t let him repaint my car, put a spoiler on my car, or smuggle black tar heroin across the border with my car.
Same goes for Bavasi. I wouldn’t let him make a single trade involving any of our prospects without pre-approval.
And these guys are in no position to complain, not with their performances. They should be on the thinnest of ice. If they don’t like the oversight, maybe they could get a job with Cleveland. I hear they are wishing they’d rebuilt the Mariner way.
Poor Chaves.
Why has McLaren gotten the job? It might be expected that the Ms would’ve conducted a search that included McLaren. Is this a Bavasi loyalty thing?
Larue’s version, with coaches quotes
It is all rather strange, the way this works. Most of the coaches could make the case that they have been let go without cause, since the team was successful and they basically did their jobs competently. The assumption in sports, and especially in baseball, is that you bring in “your own people,” which as far as I can tell means that you bring in your friends and cronies. Maybe some of them have a closer philosophy to that of the manager, but basically I have the sense that there really isn’t that much difference between baseball coaches and the manager just wants to hang with his pals. Hiring doesn’t seem to have anything to do with an actual job search involving the best candidates for the position. What would the resume for, say, first base coach look like, anyway? “Three straight seasons without a runner being picked off first base?”
Another thought–in the rest of the working world you have to work with people who are not necessarily your friends. Here the manager gets to surround himself with his buddies. A little odd and I wonder whether it is really more productive.
Raffy and Carlos had it coming, god bless ‘em.
Why do you think Chaves “had it coming”? Because he was forced to work with absolute crap, other than the guy he nutured from AA on (Felix)? And even Felix was hurt for a long stretch. Do you honestly think some “better” pitching coach could have gotten more from Batista (career high in wins, nearly 200 IP), Weaver (despite crappy sign, nice reclamation job IMO), Ramirez (horrible acquisition, nothing favorable to say, but neither Chaves’ fault), and Washburn (a #4 at best, thrust into a top-of-rotation job), and the revolving door that filled in for Felix when he was hurt, and Ramirez, when the organization finally gave up on him (Baek, Feierabend,et al.,)?
Chaves is a good pitching coach, with an excellent relationship with the organization’s most prized asset. He did a decent job with what he was given to work with, which was absolute crap.
And Slaton (who has also been well-regarded over the years) – what did he do wrong? Handle a very young and very inexperienced bullpen, and mold it into being one of the team’s best assets, at least until it was clear that it was overworked, cleaning up routinely after the mess left by our shitty starters?
Neither deserves their fate.
I’d bet my leg Bone will never work for the team in an official capacity again…same reason he didn’t stick as a color guy, he is not a turd-polishing sycophant who refuses to criticize the people calling the shots, even when they are clearly, repeatably, and demonstrably making horrible decisions.
I am shocked Pentland wants to come back. I heard from a former player who knows him that coaching these hitters was driving him crazy. Pentland loves patient hitters who wait for mistakes and crush them. Two of his top disciples were Sosa during his prime and Sweeney in KC. I guess a paycheck can make up for being asked to squeeze water from a rock.
It can’t hurt for somebody to keep screaming “patience!” at these guys….
Also, don’t get me wrong – while I don’t think either Chaves or Slaton deserved to be fired, and I think they are probably better at what they were doing than most, neither pitching coaches not bullpen coaches have huge impacts and this level. It probably won’t make much difference – except to Chaves and Slaton (and maybe Felix).
Cronyism works in our government. Why not baseball?
This government works? That’s news to me….
The spoils system. Goes back to the Jackson era (Andrew, not Shoeless Joe or Stonewall).
I don’t understand the “Poor Chaves and Garcia” comments. From some of the platitudes you’d think this was a top notch AL team the last few years or something.
I grok that it isn’t fair that they go and McLaren the Clueless Company Man gets to stay … but in the end neither the team’s record nor their performances as base or pitching coaches made a compelling case for them to be kept.
88 wins from this group of SP is nothing to sneer at. Chaves wasn’t the guy who picked that crappy bunch of pitchers. He is, however, somewhat responsible for Felix’s development, seeing as how he has been Felix’s pitching coach since AA.
In belated response to John in LA (post 34):
The bottom line is that the management has chosen to keep McLaren. That being the case it would make no sense at all to sabotage him by forcing him to accept a staff not of his choosing. If you believe in the guy you have to let him sink or swim on his own.
Like you, I wouldn’t have kept McLaren for another season if it were my team. But any manager I would hire would have all the authority to handle his staff and the team as he saw fit. That’s good management practice both in an out of baseball.
And when I talk about expectations, I’m refering to what a coach should expect in the world of Major League Baseball…and replacing staff nearly always happens when the manager changes.
Dan Wilson for Bench Coach!
In my crazed mind, hire the alumni.
Jay Buhner…Edgar Martinez…Norm Charlton
Feel free to remind me that I’m on crack.
Not crack, but you’re in serious need of a nostalgiectomy. And Charlton was the guy who thought Rick White was able to pitch in the majors (in high leverage situations, no less) so wanting to give him any authority or opportunity to apply his “judgement” to anything more important than picking up towels in the clubhouse… well, yeah, now you’re on crack. Or worse.
she also mentions that Felix is getting married over the winter…
To the mother of his child, or somebody else? (I realize this isn’t the NBA, but still…)
re Pentland…
So, the M’s are retaining their defense from the black arts instructor. I don’t recall the last time that happened.
50 – “The bottom line is that the management has chosen to keep McLaren. That being the case it would make no sense at all to sabotage him by forcing him to accept a staff not of his choosing. If you believe in the guy you have to let him sink or swim on his own.”
Why? It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Managers are kept on varying lengths of leashes all the time.
The team gets to decide how much power they want to give McLaren and Bavasi… and then they can decide if they want to stay or not.
“Like you, I wouldn’t have kept McLaren for another season if it were my team. But any manager I would hire would have all the authority to handle his staff and the team as he saw fit. That’s good management practice both in an out of baseball.”
Absolutely not. It’s terrible management practice to give sweeping power to someone if you are not sure they are competent enough to handle it.
There was no urgent need to let Mac fire everyone so that he could hire, as he seems to admit, his old buddies.
There was no reason at all the organization couldn’t say “This guy, this guy and this guy stay. They mean a lot to the organization. So make it work.”
It happens. And it should happen much more often.
So, lives were upended, good people lost their jobs… all to reward a guy who doesn’t deserve his job in the first place.
Bah. Bad, bad management going on up there.
> Jay Buhner for bench.
Too much fire, and too many goddam opinions he just can’t keep to himself.
> Edgar Martinez for hitting.
Would he return from his business, and his travel-free home life?
> Norm Charlton for pitching.
Just because he was an alumni? How about Matt Young, then?
It appears the best hitters/pitchers don’t always shine as coaches (Molitor, cough cough)… The ability to teach is it’s own gift. Buhner and Charlton never struck me as particularly patient dudes.
Of course, lawyers do make fine fine managers. (Hi Walt and Tony! Up here!)
MARIO MENDOZA 4 HITTING COACH!
I think in order to qualify as a “hitting coach”, a pre-req would be at least to have been a professional hitter to begin with…lol!
Then again, I wonder if Rey Ordonez is still lurking around when ya need him…
Come to think of it, though, we did have Jesse Barfield here for a year as HC, too — a guy known to have a K or two at the plate during his ML career.
that must be why he keeps hanging around the dugput, the clubhouse, going to spring training, visiting the minor league teams ….
yup– “even though he is only 21 he had been with Mariella for seven years and no one knew him better. He enjoys being a father, and yes, is ready to settle down”
that would have been Perry…
Lee Elia (1993-1997)
Jesse Barfield (1998-1999)
Gerald Perry (2000-2002)
Lamar Johnson (2003)
Paul Molitor (2004)
Don Baylor (2005)
Pentland…
come to think of it, isn’t Gerald the current Cubs batting coach?
Jim Colborn is also available again … wonder if he’d consider returning to the fold
oh, and “Every member of the Red Sox family contributed last night. Danny Vinik, the 17-year-old son of Red Sox limited partner Jeffrey Vinik, entered franchise lore last night thanks to a well-timed grab of a Manny Ramirez foul ball.”
Re Danny Vinik…define irony!
I’m not sure what to think of the Norm Charlton rumors as bullpen coach… Charlton caused us plenty of headaches in his day, but let’s not forget the incredible 1995 and 2001 seasons he had for us. Yeah, as a Mariner fan, the name Norm Charlton wouldn’t register too many happy memories; my lasting memory of him as a Mariner after the 1997 season was that his pitch of choice was the gopherball. But he bounced back in our minds after 2001, and for all the dissapointment with not reaching the W.S., that year in retrospect still seems pretty chilling. Like ’95. And if Norm Charlton was putting up great numbers on both of those teams, I’m not sure I have too much beef with Norm Charlton being on board. At least it’s not Bobby Ayala.
huh?
I had forgotten that Cirillo was now one of the few veteran DBacks
The Phillies forgot to go ahead and be in the sixth inning before they put the lights out in Colorado.
63:
You know the pitching coach isn’t actually expected to pitch, right?
I loved Norm. He may be a better fit as a pitching coach under Lou Piniella though. Drinkin’ buddies and all.
so, Jamie is walking the tightrope as usual, and his team is giving him no run support– or even hardly any time on the bench between innings
There isn’t much more Moyer can do for his team. He can’t win many games without some offense coming around.
Pat Burrell owes Moyer a run.
the color guy on radio, noting Moyer racing over towards the dugout tracking a foul ball, was laughing that Moyer must really want this game– apparently not having ever noticed that Moyer does that on every foul ball, no matter the game.
sheesh, Pat.
That’s a start, guys. A couple more, please.
Torrealba? Wow, I didn’t know he was still around. And he got a hit!
I want the Rockies to win, just because, but I’ll let Jamie win tonight. The poor bastard’s worked hard enough for it. So far, though, it doesn’t look like anyone wants to win.
75: “So far, though, it doesn’t look like anyone wants to win.”
Yes, that appears to be the case, it looks like both teams are really trying to lose.
I guess if Jamie really wanted to win, he should’ve hit a homer himself.
Oh man, someone wants to win now.
You’d think a guy with the name Victorino would bring his own luck to this spot.
The Rockies have now won 17 of their last 18.
It’s all about timing your winning streaks.
Fox executives must be cringing thinking of the possibility of a Series between Phoenix and Cleveland. We’d find out how many hard core baseball fans there are in America.
Thank goodness Arizonia changed their uni colors, or it would have been an all purple and black series.
well, I see O’Dea beat EC, so one Moyer got a win tonight.
81 – As much as the execs are cringing, I’m happy. Itd be nice to see 2 teams that struggled the past few years, without huge budgets, rebuilding their franchises, and show that they can develop talent without needing too much veteraness to win. (John MacLaren and Bill Bavasi take note). I would have dreaded a yankees or red sox vs. cubs world series.
Anyone have a good nickname for out of town types of fans? (Like the ones that fill up half of safeco wearing Boston apperal when the red sox are in town?)
Anyone have a good nickname for out of town types of fans? (Like the ones that fill up half of safeco wearing Boston apperal when the red sox are in town?)
How about “pains in the ass?”
54: I hate having back-and-forths that nobody else on the thread responds to. Does anyone else think that if you choose to keep McLaren (which I wouldn’t) BUT IF YOU DID you should castrate him by forcing a coaching staff on him that he did not choose? My feeling is that this is A) A bad idea and B) NEVER DONE IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES. The M’s coaches should have had no expectation of jobs past the end of this season.
#84: “Anyone have a good nickname for out of town types of fans? (Like the ones that fill up half of safeco wearing Boston apperal when the red sox are in town?)”
Extra revenue.
Watching the Dbacks drub the Cubs led me to one major realization. WHO IN THE HELL DECIDED IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO LET BRIAN PRICE WALK.
freaking melvin
86 – Castrate him? Come on. Not letting him hire people he owes favors isn’t castrating him. Is it castrating him not to let him choose the roster he wants? Make any trades he wants?
And “never done in the major leagues”? I would be shocked if that were true. I know it’s not true in football. You seriously don’t think a GM or owner has ever said “Don’t fire So and So”?
Never is a pretty big word.
As far as “bad idea”, I’ve given you reasons why it is far from a bad idea, you just keep saying that it is.
Giving someone bad at their job more power doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.
Typical, yes. Tradition, yes. Inherently good management? No.
Do you have any reason at all to believe that letting an unproven, ass-on-the-line manager fire everybody is going to make the team better? Any reason to trust his judgment at all?
Sure it’s standard practice… but that does not mean it’s smart.
As far as having a back-and-forth… near as I can tell, we’re the only ones staying on topic, so I wouldn’t worry about it.
such as, for example, telling Bob Melvin he had Bryan Price as his pitching coach?
87 – Agreed.
90 – Spot on for the Melvin mention. But beyond that, I always love when we get to discussing McLaren (or whoever’s managing). Discussing one manager over another is like going to pick out drapes with your wife — there’s no way to say anything about the subject that you won’t regret later, but in the end you also know that the choice is not going to make that big a difference in your life. Whether with McLaren… Hargrove… Melvin… or Lou, or Sponge-Bob Squarepants as manager, this team has been borderline, and for a long time. True enough, managers can make calls which seem dumb or genius (usually dumb), but they can’t win/lose a season (although, arguably, they can win or lose a pennant). But in terms of the season, and getting into the playoffs, the team does that. Sexson has a much more negative impact on this team (I’ll bet Adam Jones could even play 1st better…) than McLaren. The front office just seems incapable of getting past some long-standing and ingrained prejudices and pre(mis)conceptions about team-building. We’re talking about a corporate culture problem, here. For McLaren, they’re just letting him find his Happy Place. And let’s be lucid: if they are doing this, it’s because he fits. Don’t bet on them drumming him out of here next year unless they have another one of their patented, really bad-year, two-month swoons beginning in end-April.
81: Yeah…even though the Fox nazis tried their damndest to orchestrate either a Subway Series, Freeway Series, or Bi-Coastal Series just to ensure themselves of a potential market of at least 20 million viewers, guess it’s probably not gonna work out like they planned.
Well, boo friggin’ hoo…guess it’ll be just down to the purests of the game. Yeah, Rupert — us FANS OF THE GAME
…To conclude my rant from above…us Fans in the “Great Unwashed” who acutually DON’T mind seeing good, solid, hard-nosed baseball played between two teams full of kids that maybe AREN’T household names around the country (and world) just yet…but who played their butts off to get where they got and don’t really care that they’re hometown crowds aren’t in the biggest friggin’ metropolises in North America.
Those “kids” from Arizona or Colorado or Cleveland know what this game is TRULY all about.
Kinda like they did back in the old days –when you had championship teams actually coming from cities with names like Pittsburgh, Kansas City, or Minneapolis.
84: A good nickname for those types of fans?
Hmmm…drunken Man-U fans who show up at any other EPL park sorta come to mind.
new member so bare with me. i really don’t understand letting go rafael chaves. even if it’s a manager’s prerogative to do so. he’s been with the m’s for 10 years and KNOWS all the young arms. to cut him loose seems sort of strange to me.
now, i’ve read that they may bring in the “sheriff” to be the pitching coach, and he has a lot of knowledge about the young kids as well, so it might not make that much of a difference. but if mac goes outside of the organization and pulls in a friend and the pitching goes south next season, what is going to happen?
are we going to have a new manager and start over again? if we kick butt and get into the playoffs, then it’s all water under the bridge and nobdy will care. but if it fails? i don’t think i can take another losing season. this one took a toll on my heart that it might not be able to over come with yet one more “rebuilding” season.
peace
jeff
former PI writer Jon Paul Morosi tells his Detroit readers that a good fit for them next season might be Raul Ibanez …
huh. JP has noticed that “He’s a below-average defender, so the Tigers would need to accept some misplayed balls in Comerica Park’s spacious leftfield. His contribution to the lineup, though, would make the move worthwhile.”
Drayer has her blog entry up now about the coaching staff, talking about the various duties & relationships
96… take our Raul. Please!
Now we just need to find a home for Sexson (maybe the Yankees if they get swept?)
shortbus –
While I tend to agree that letting a manager pick his own staff is pretty common, it is not unheard of to have a coach or three forced down a manager’s throat when they are well regarded within the organization. Bryan Price as Bob Melvin’s pitching coach (here, not in Arizona – you see, it can work out well) is a good example. “Never” is FAR too strong a word. For all we know, Pentland may be an example of a coach Mac was forced to keep, rather than his own preference…..
96 – And what would the Mariners get in return. Maybe some pitching would be nice, but I’m just scared what Bavasi would choose in return. I could picture it being a deal where Raul has a 30 HR – 100 RBI, (and Leyland would actually know not to play him in LF, and maybe platoon him with Sheffield in 1b – DH), and Im guessing someone like Jeremy Bonderman, who will stink up safeco and have elbow problems all year or something like that, and make Bavasi look worse than he even is.
And I am thinking they should trade Sexson to somewhere where they have a hitter’s park. If i was a GM trying to trade sexson, I would tell the other GM that atleast a few of the flyballs hit in spacious safeco would turn into homers for their smallers parks. Maybe Baltimore? They seem like the place who would try sexson.
speaking of things on cable not every one can see, TCM has several hours of baseball movies tonight–
7:00 is 1962′s “Safe at home”, with a small boy bragging he knows some Yankees personally– of note mainly for the tremendous awkwardness with which Maris & Mantle portray themselves.
9:00 is “Headin’ home” a 1920 silent starring Babe Ruth as himself — to quote from the original Variety review: “The picture has been thrown together to capitalize Ruth’s tremendous popularity and, as such, it will do a success. Ten thousand people sat patiently through the dreary preliminary scenes waiting for their idol to reach his specialty which is the promulgation of home runs. This is an age of specialists, and as a picture star, Ruth qualifies as the greatest batsman that baseball has ever developed.”
10:30 has two shorts– His last game (1909) about ‘Choctaw Bill Going’ and The ball player and the bandit (1912) where a college boy uses his baseball skills out West
hmm. if you undid Manny’s braids, would he have Polamalu hair?
100: I agree with the O’s seeming like a good fit for Richie…after all, they seem to be following the classic “one step forward, two steps back” theory of franchise development in recent years, anyway.
huh. you’d think it was our Weaver pitching.
Here he come now singin’ MAN-NAH MAH-NAH!
I see Little Spicoli only lasted about as long in that game as his brother typically does, too.
And yet another team that has no interest in winning.
Even when the score was 0-0, the Angels looked flatter than a Sunday brunch crepe.
Somehow I knew OC was gonna go down in flames in the first round…oh well.
And of course, what are these jerks from ESPN radio talking about? Well, they seemed to sound as if it was the end of the world because of series sweeps — and that it “will have to be up to the Yankees to keep things going.”
YEECCH!
Oh good, the TBS broadcasters are obviously cheering for the Yankees. I was afraid they’d remain impartial and simply comment on the play.
Jeter hits into a DP he couldn’t've made himself. After not being charged with an error he deserved. Karma.
Maybe there is a little Weaverness that runs in the whole family.
Oh, yes, I’m breathlessly waiting to see A-rod’s reception for his first at bat. But first, the Indians have to stop getting hits.
TBS announcers during A-Rod ab: “They green light him 3-1, how’bout that?”
Wait, did we just see the end of Clemens’ career?
How anti-climatic.
Then again, we’ve seen his retirement tour a couple of times; we can all just flashback to all those standing O’s.
Clemens and Glavine both fell pretty hard at the end.
While we’re on the topic of syndicated Yankee honks, I wonder how much Steinbrenner paid Jon Miller to sell his soul to him for this series.
Well, if that is the end of Clemens, at least he went out on a K.
I’ve been switching back and forth between the TV and radio coverage, and both of them are annoying: no excitement unless the Yankees are hitting (or at least threatening). All the Indians’ hits are the result of bad Yankee pitching, with no credit to the Indians hitters. All the double-plays and ground outs are because the Yankee batters are straining or otherwise messing up, with no credit to Westbrook.
I’ve been pulling for an Indians-Colorado series all along, but when I mentioned this last night somebody said “Oh, that would be the networks’ worst nightmare, two small markets not on the coasts” — and I realized that makes the prospect even sweeter. And now I can add to that: the announcers will have to actually pay attention to at least one of these non-Yankees non-Red Sox teams. Though they’d probably just start talking about Dusty Baker’s boat, or something.
I really did not think that Clemons would be a facter when the Yanks were despirit for pitching and tendered him another contract.
114: If today was indeed the “end” of The Rocket’s career (I say that a bit skeptically, since so far, he’s had more encore tours than The Who), at least he went out on a slightly more positive note than that of his idol, Nolan Ryan. While Clemens’ performance wasn’t pretty, either, better to go out to a PS crowd of 56k at home in a game where at least there was something at stake than an early-season road game in front of about 6k where there really wasn’t.
I’m hoping it’s the end of Clemens career and I’m happy that it ended with another big game that he didn’t come through on. There’s no doubt he was a great pitcher, but he’s also a headhunter. Good riddance.
117: Joser, I hear ya, bro. Gee, I wonder sometimes what we ever did before Fox started butting their big corporate nose into post-season baseball — and heaven forbid, teams from, uh, “small market” cities were actually allowed to WIN the freakin’ WS once in a while!
And now, of course, ESPN brings you the obligatory soundbite of Scioscia whining about how the Angels “didn’t get the job done.”
WHOOP-DEEE!
I think it’s funny the last postseason game Clemens won when his team was facing elimination was game 7 of the ALCS… in 1986, when he was pitching for Boston. Sure, he’s won a lot of PS games and he hasn’t been on many teams that actually faced elimination (or did so for more than one game) so it’s not like he had many opportunities. But 1986. That’s the Bill Buckner Red Sox. That’s Cyndi Lauper and Madonna and the Bangles. That’s Huey Lewis and the News. 1986!
Meanwhile, in the vets vs kids debate, the vets aren’t doing so well, and the kids are doing great. But, hey, I’m sure the intangibles are off the charts.
Speaking of Bruckner…. I’d like to introduce you to Trot Nixon.
And as a long suffering Sox fan, I must point out that Nixon came from through Sox (as did Clemens). Apparently, losing is an infectious disease.
On a team which had an otherwise great season, Trot’s pretty much had a stinker year.
But, ah, you gotta love that “veteran goodness.” Watch Bavasi go out and pick him up in the off-season.
I don’t know, we’re looking for pitching and Schilling’s been hurt this year. It seems like that makes him Bavasi’s target.
121: I know, right? Those damn Yankees and Mets win every year!
Oh wait.
I see the names of Perlozza and Lee Mazzone as possibilities. Would O’s get rid of Mazzone?
127: Of course not…but unfortunately, Fox and ESPN often show such favoritism toward certain teams they like, it makes you wonder that if they had THEIR way about it, maybe 6-8 cities where they get the best ratings would have major league teams — and nobody else would.
at least he went out on a slightly more positive note than that of his idol, Nolan Ryan [who went out in] an early-season road game in front of about 6k where there really wasn’t.
Your memory is a bit faulty. I was at Ryan’s last game in September 1993. There were 40,000 strong in the Kingdome. But yes, the Rangers were effectively out of it (though given the current 3 division structure, they would have won the AL West that year).
129: Thanks, Adam…I’d actually forgotten there were that many there that night, since attendance at times was kind of sporadic in those days. I remember that being the first year of “Louie Ball”, and that we were playing quite a bit better than the year before, but that we, too, were still uried in that seven-team division (as were the Rangers).
It was kind of a sad end in a way for a legend, but I’m glad you got to see a real piece of baseball history.
*buried
“The A’s have decided to not bring back bench coach Bob Schaefer, third-base coach Rene Lachemann and bullpen coach Brad Fischer next season.
“This isn’t necessarily a reflection on them,” general manager Billy Beane said. “This is more about Bob [Geren] getting the opportunity to bring in some guys of his own choosing.”
Was Chaves some how involved with all the M’s pitching injuries in the minors? It would seem to be an organizational/teaching issue. I know it’s been brought up several times already. I thought perhaps Brian Price shouldered (pun not intended) some of the blame, but he’s been gone for a couple years now. He did work in the minors for a long time, so is Chaves a pupil of his?
I can agree that McLaren as is his choice to hire his own staff of coaches etc…..and as often happens with a change at helm whereever in the MLB.
However the retaining of Pentland as hitting coach is the one that puzzles me.Of all the coaches I thought his firing would have been #1 on that list.
I agree providing his health is good and if Mac asks him Stottlemyre would be an excellent choice to be the next pitching coach for the M’s.
I’d like to see Lee Elia back with M’s coaching either the catchers or bullpen.
I think that Mac should look for a bench coach with some manager experience a good possible is recently fired Tracy as manager of the Pirates.
I feel however Mac really should reconsider retaining Thurman as 1stB coach.He seemed very comfortable there and did in my opinion a very good job at that position.
As for 3rdB coach he should serious consider a former catcher or 3rdBman for the job.