LaRue: Sexson wasn’t claimed on waivers
msb pointed us to this, in the TNT:
Despite reports from ESPN, picked up by local blogs and beaten to death, Richie Sexson was never claimed on waivers this season. It simply didn’t happen. Not by Detroit, not by Baltimore – not by anyone.
The Mariners had Sexson and plenty of other players on waivers, but no one claimed him. If someone had, they’d be the proud owner of Sexson today. The Mariners wanted to move him, and hoped someone would put in a claim to block another team.
No one did.
I believe LaRue’s made this allegation before. If you look back through the Times/PI archives, there are references to the M’s testing the trade waters for Sexson but finding no takers, but I couldn’t find anyone either confirming or denying the waiver claim. Which seems odd, since that was a pretty big decision for the team (if they made it). And it’s entirely possible Jayson Stark got fed bad info: that happens allllll the time. But why would someone tell him the Tigers claimed Sexson and the M’s pulled him back? That seems odd.
Anyway, if LaRue’s right, then it’s likely that the team’s going to have to eat more salary to move him.
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If I’m Seattle’s management, why would I lie if Sexson was indeed claimed by other teams? Wouldn’t that help his trade value a bit by allowing the Mariners to say that there was an actual demand for his skills?
I can’t see a logical reason Baltimore would have put a claim in, and the team could have easily defended pulling Sexson back from a Detroit claim by saying that since the Tigers were a competitor in the wild-card race it made no sense to give them a potential asset, even one as overpriced as this one.
If people within the organization are lying to make themselves look better in hindsight, it’ll be tough to have much respect for management.
This report makes me sad. My optimism that Sexson has some trade value was based on the reports that he was claimed by multiple teams.
Now I have to rethink Richie Sexson’s offseason trade value.
That should be a very short think indeed.
If he has absolutely zero value, maybe it’s best to hang on to him.
Hopefully we can get a bad pitching contract for Sexson.
In the literal game of telephone that lies behind most national baseball columns, I have no doubt this is possible. All it takes is for somebody to misunderstand a realistic scenario being spun out as a possibility (Mariners trying to dump Sexson, Detroit in contention and with a need at first base, but Mariners presumably not wanting to help out their wild-card competition) into an assertion of factuality.
My optimism that Sexson has some trade value was based on the reports that he was claimed by multiple teams.
I had no such optimism. If Detroit did indeed claim him, it was out of desperation. In the offseason, without the wildcard carrot dangling on a thin and slippery thread, cooler heads prevail. Sexson’s value (or lack of it) was no higher then than it is now; Detroit was simply more desperate. I don’t see what rethinking could be ncessary: he was an overpriced albatross then, he is one now, and any GM can see that. Sexson is what he is. The only thing that can change is a team’s circumstances, so you could wait another 11 months (and burden the ’08 Mariners) in the hope there’ll be another team grasping at straws (and also hope there’s nothing better being dangled). Or you could face facts (that he might rebound a little but not enough to justify his salary), swallow the cost, and improve the team by letting him go.
I am annoyed that Bavasi refuses to run two rookies in the outfield. With Sexson gone and Raul moved to 1B, you could have Ichiro ball-hogging between Wlad and AJ, instantly improving the team both in the field and at the plate. (As I said before, I’d actually have no problem with trading Balentien to a team with a field where his swing would be a better fit, but because I have no faith Bavasi will get anything close to fair value in return I’d rather see Wlad pulling drives into RF at Safeco).
So this alongside with the report that Guillen will likely not re-sign with the M’s gets the wheels in my head spinning.
Move Sexson, eat his contract, do something, trade him to the Nationals for a bucket of basketballs and a Wille Bloomquist bobblehead doll. Stick Ibanez (wasn’t there talk of Vidro?) at first.
Also it’s pretty well accepted that Balentin should be packing his bags already but he’s, for the most part, ML ready so get a ML ready pitcher in return and i’ll be a happy camper.
Felix, Washburn, Batista, (Baek, Campillo, someone), (ML ready trade from Balentin)
not a great rotation, but considering we’re removing Ramirez it’s an upgrade, add that to the vastly improved outfield defense (Jones over Guillen, and removing Ibanez for anything else) and it’s looking better.
If we can get Lopez out of his funk (or replace him internally? Maybe Morse? Too early for Chen?) it’d be a plus.
There’s too many ways this offseason can unfold so I’m going to stop before this gets too long
… on a side note, I don’t post too often so I just saw the button to post “I Promise that this comment contributes substantially to the discussion” hah!!
#7- the report about guillen is that he’ll hit the FA market, not that he won’t re-sign with seattle…he will just be harder to sign with open competition…and if they do let him walk, then WLAD will most likely be his replacement…
Sexson would seem like a good fit for Baltimore. He is an overpriced veteran that I think Baltimore would be willing to dump money on. And since Baltimore is much more of a hitter’s park, maybe some of those long fly balls Sexson would hit at Safeco would turn into home runs.
Sorry, that might make too much sense for Bavasi.
8 – I thought Bavasi clearly stated that they would NOT run with Wlad and AJ sandwiching Ichiro in the outfield.
I remember there was some discussion here backing both arguments, and the general consensus was that Wlad should get his bags packing.
I think this was before Hargrove walked though, so maybe McLaren will tell Bavasi he wants Wlad-Ichiro-Jones … who knows. I’d personally like to see it though.
If the M’s remove Sexson from the roster and swallow his salary (salary being the only edible item more unpalatable than garlic fries), what lesson do you think the FO will take from the experience?
10 – There wouldn’t be enough veteran presence in that outfield. I don’t think Mac or Bavasi would want that to happen.
11 (bergamot) – That their really bad gamble will have better results next time? That they should trade more prospects for end-of-their-career veterans?
Their moves since the Sexson signing have shown little to tell me they have learned anything.
I’ve thought all alone we’d have to eat his salary to trade Sexson. As for the idea that if he has no value, we should hang on to him, I completely disagree. If he’s hanging around on the bench, there’s going to be an enormous amount of pressure to play him (given how Mac loves the gritty veteraness that is Richie). I don’t want him as an option for Mac to run out until Richie “gets hot in the second half.”
Anyway, if LaRue’s right, then it’s likely that the team’s going to have to eat more salary to move him.
That, or take other teams’ craptastic players back (think the Cirillo/Sweeney+cash for Jarvis/Wiki Gonzalez/Vince Faison/Dave Hansen trade).
I think if Sexson is dumped off the roster in the offseason, this is probably how it happens. I don’t see him being just outright waived/DFAed until a month or three into the season, ala Bret Boone/Scott Spiezio/Rich Aurilia/John Olerud. The Mariners just simply don’t dump veterans until they have comprehensively proven they’ve fallen on their face, and that usually is a midseason move.
I think this was before Hargrove walked though, so maybe McLaren will tell Bavasi he wants Wlad-Ichiro-Jones … who knows.
Are you kidding me? Look at Mac’s comments on “veterans who’ve been through wars” and how many retreads/failed managers he’s hiring as coaches. This organization is about to become fossilized in amber until Mac and Bavasi are gone, I think.
If the M’s remove Sexson from the roster and swallow his salary (salary being the only edible item more unpalatable than garlic fries), what lesson do you think the FO will take from the experience?
The Mariners are kind of like the Bourbon ruling family of France: they learn nothing and they forget nothing.
I don’t really know why any team would claim Sexson. He’s a “big name” but not such a star (like, say, a certain local running back who was inexplicably drafted in the first round of every fantasy draft) that his decline in performance goes overlooked or unbelieved. Only the M’s, with their direct experience, could cling to the “Second-half surge” theory (by the way, does the word ‘surge’ now mean ‘almost certain failure’?)
I don’t see him being just outright waived/DFAed until a month or three into the season, ala Bret Boone/Scott Spiezio/Rich Aurilia/John Olerud. The Mariners just simply don’t dump veterans until they have comprehensively proven they’ve fallen on their face, and that usually is a midseason move.
I agree, because unless I’m missing something the opportunity cost of keeping him on the roster isn’t very high (assuming that if you cut him, he passes through waivers before signing elsewhere and you’re paying his salary anyway so there’s no cost savings).
Will keeping Sexson will require exposing someone the Mariners really like to waivers when the final roster is settled in March? If not, and he’s not shipped elsewhere in the offseason, I’d be surprised if the Mariners cut him loose before seeing if they can deal him for something in June.
If the M’s can’t find a taker for even a modest portion of Sexson’s salary, is keeping him and hoping that he rebounds worse than simply moving him, paying everything, and getting junk in return? The downside is that there would be pressure to play him even if he is still unproductive. The upside is that he may return to 80% of what he was from 05-06 and be useful to the M’s. The M’s will pay the money either way. If Bavasi can find a good deal, terrific. I just don’t think that any GM, let alone Bavasi, could find a good deal for Sexson.
by the way, does the word ’surge’ now mean ‘almost certain failure’?
Not necessarily, but in its usual sense, whether you’re talking about waves or electricity, a surge is brief and inherently followed by receding to previous levels. Or dropping even further, as with the electrical surge that precedes a complete power outage. So it’s not really that promising of a metaphor.
Extending the electrical analogy, if you’ve been experiencing surges, ultimately resulting in an extended interruption in service, waiting for the next surge is deluding yourself. In reality, you may be looking at some serious repairs to the system before power is restored.
I’ve got it. We trade Sexson for a Rule 5 selection who will take up a roster spot while contributing even less than Sexson. Then we lure Kirk Gibson out of retirement to play left field, thus providing a veteran presence in the outfield while keeping Ichiro in VERY good shape running foul pole to foul pole.
The upside is that he may return to 80% of what he was from 05-06 and be useful to the M’s.
80% of Richie Sexson from 05-06 is a replacement level 1B. Basically, you can find a Carlos Pena/Hee Seop Choi/Bucky Jacobsen as “free talent”… so if by “useful” you mean “is still offering terrible return on 14 million in salary”, OK, but that’s not my definition of useful.
The day they signed Sexson I thought they’d be eating his last year. At some point even the Mariners have to recognize that they can’t afford to play him.
And to amplify on my post, the reason why Richie Sexson is going to be bad even if he “bounces back” to .240/.320/.450 is that his defense drags his offensive contribution down, and the idea behind replacement level/”free talent” is if you made a team out of it (basically, an expansion franchise), you’d win 60-70 games. Players who play at that level don’t help you if your goal is to win 90-95. So, basically, you turn Richie from being a HUGE boat anchor to just being a smaller boat anchor… but he’s still going to soak up $14 million in salary this year you could use in other places, as well as being a “veteran who’s been through wars” who blocks guys like Clement if Clement has an Adam Jones-style 2008.
My thoughts:
Best (possible) scenario for 2008: 95-100 wins, Division title, maybe a LDS win, loss in the LCS.
Worst (possible) scenario for 2008: 65-70 wins, Last in AL West.
Ways to make these things happen:
a) Play Wlad/Jones everyday, move Ibanez to first, dump Richie
b) Play Wlad/Jones everyday, move Ibanez to DH, leave Richie at first
c) Play Jones everyday, re-sign Guillen, move Ibanez to first, dump Richie, trade Wlad for SP help
d) Leave Ibanez in Left, re-sign Guillen, move Ibanez to DH, leave Richie at first, trade Wlad for SP help
e) Play Wlad/Jones in the OF, and Clement at DH everyday, move Ibanez to first, dump Richie
These, I think, are really the five easiest scenarios (in no particular order) that I think the organization could pull off this winter. Personally, I doubt we pull a division title, or even a WC berth from a lineup that contains Ibanez anywhere in the OF. I also doubt we pull one out of a lineup with Sexson at first.
I say why not shoot for the moon? Why not do the Jones/Ichiro/Wlad of, with an infield of Beltre/Betancourt/Lopez/Ibanez with Johjima behind the plate and Clement DH-ing? Why not give the three biggest prospects a chance to show what they’re made of.
Our pitching staff isn’t setup for a one-last-shot type of year. Felix should be better, could even be Cy Young material if he pitches like his bookend outings in 2007. But even with that, I don’t think we’re competing for the Pennant with Batista/Washburn/Young-guy/Acquisition.
A “re-building” year, or better dubbed a “year-that-gives-insight-into-where-our-organization-actually-stands” wouldn’t be a bad thing IMO, and I honestly think that a team consisting of those three rookies would have just as much chance of making it to October as a team anchored by whom we had this season.
Just my two cents.
#22 — Yes, Richie will offer a terrible return on the investment. My question is whether keeping him as a replacement level 1B or jettisoning him (for what would be nothing) and still paying him would be the preferable way to manage and minimize the awful return that the M’s will see on their investment. I am undecided on that question.
Dump Dick Sexson and just eat the money already. Play Jones and Wlad in the OF. Ibanez at first. Vidro can spot start at DH, 1st.. occasionally pinch-hit.. or trade him somewhere if there’s interest (I don’t think there’s much, but you never know). Pitch some young guys on the mound for a year. Someone may surprise. You’re then set up next year money-wise and you’ve evaluated your own in-house talent at this level for an entire season.
<I.Yes, Richie will offer a terrible return on the investment. My question is whether keeping him as a replacement level 1B or jettisoning him (for what would be nothing) and still paying him would be the preferable way to manage and minimize the awful return that the M’s will see on their investment. I am undecided on that question.
The problem I see is, again, if the organization is invested in having Richie “rebound”, you could end up with the same problem we had with Jones in 2007 with someone like Clement in 2008- a good young player who’s blocked by “proven” veterans if Richie does “rebound”… even if it’s not much of a rebound.
I’d really rather see the team hose off the deck (granted, I think the odds of this are minimal).
The scenario I really fear, though, is something like a trade of Sexson+Wlad+Lopez+Feierabend for Zito+assorted non-prospects of SF’s 40 man roster to balance things out- where we swap Sexson’s deadweight salary that will be off the books come 2009 for even MORE deadweight salary in the future. Given the Mariner front office’s thinking of “we need pitching” + being willing to overpay for veterans, that has to be a legitimate concern, and if I was a GM trying to bury a mistake with an overpriced pitcher’s longterm deal and aiming to steal as much young and inexpensive talent as I can as part of the deal, I’d be putting Bavasi’s cell on speed-dial right about now.
Every player represents 4% of the roster.
Sexson’s $14M represents ~13% of the payroll.
There are lots of ways to measure his “contribution” to the team at the plate and in the field. I don’t think any of them are going to show he’s pulling his weight. So is keeping him on the roster worse than paying him to go away? Yes, because there are only 25 roster spots and his presences makes it impossible to employ the talent the team already has with maximum effectiveness. If they want to take less of a bath they could get rid of Vidro (rotating Sexson and Ibanez between DH and 1B). And of course they’d expect some scrubs back in a trade, just to make it look like a trade, minor-league guys we’ll never hear from again.
But I don’t think Bavasi is going to do that. If Guillen vanishes into free agency, suddenly there’s a place to put Jones and that should shut those damn nuts with their intraweb thingimabob. Ibanez gets the deference accorded veterans, Bavasi gets his maximum-one-rookie outfield, and we get to watch Ibanez slipping and plodding in left field (if we can’t look away). That still leaves the question of what to do about Sexson, of course; personally, I expect to see a bunch of offseason stories about how he and Pentland have finally figured out what’s wrong with his swing, followed by a half season of equally ugly numbers, followed by a trade that is somehow even worse than what Bavasi could have swung in the offseason.
(BTW, when it comes to “surge” my first association is the “storm surge” that accompanies hurricanes, which recedes to leave things much worse than they were before).
Oh, and when Sexson departs in July they bring up Clement, no longer the catcher of the future, just another lh 1B/DH guy.
Sexson would seem like a good fit for Baltimore. He is an overpriced veteran that I think Baltimore would be willing to dump money on.
I know its hard to believe, but we might be overestimating the stupidity of Baltimore. They can’t be that dumb.
Is this version of Sexson more or less a risk than the Sexson Ms signed to a four year free agent contract?
He was coming off a year long recovery from an operation then. He had some sort of injury last season,supposedly. Wouldn’t a team with a friendlier park be willing to take a one year gamble?
One can hope.
#31: Oh c’mon, let’s think positive. Remember Peter Angelos is the owner, and they’ve already overpaid for Miguel Tejada, Rafael Palmeiro, Sammy Sosa, and Javy Lopez the last few years. So hey, why stop now?
I agree with all the barbs on Baltimore –taking a chance on Sexson DOES seem like it’s right up Angelos’ alley. In a division where you usually have to win about 105 games or so on the regular season to even have a prayer of getting past YankSox, NOBODY has tried less to compete in recent years than the O’s.
Agree on the rest, but the O’s overpaid for Tejada? He was pretty darned good the first three years of the contract, was far from horrible last year, and has two years left. It’s not like they gave a six-year deal to a guy who was already 32.
I still believe without question the Giants will accept Sexson in trade for Noah Lowry provided the M’s include I’d say 9 mil cash consideration to offset the 14 mil owed him.
Lowry I believe still has 2 yrs left on his contract will be an excellent addition to the M’s rotation steady innning eater with decent GB/FB ratio and would definately benefit from the Safeco.
Baltimore is also a good possible trade partner for Sexson and may require less of $$$$$ consideration to make it work however my question would be are the O’s willing to give up a decent inning eater SP for him?
btw, Jon Heyman repeats the story that Jon McLaren [sic] has asked Mel Stottlemyre to be his pitching coach.
Like Richie Sexson, Mel is a product of Washington State.
According to several articles appearing both on the Mariner’s site on MLB.com and the P I that have Stottlemyre has accepted the position already as has Riggleman,Charlton,Rodriguez,and that they are only waiting for Bowa to accept the 3rdB coaching job once he does the staff will be announce by Monday.
Bearman, nobody is willing to give up “a decent inning eater SP” for Sexson, even if the M’s paid his entire salary. Have you looked at the available free agents? A “decent inning eater SP” is the cream of the market. You’d need to give up a prospect to get that. Lowry is due $6.75M over the next two years, plus a $6.25M club option for ’10, but there are a bunch of escalators that can increase that substantially. Anyway, on the one hand I’m not sure the Giants want to trade away the pitcher who got them the most wins in ’07; on the other, I’m not sure the M’s want somebody who walked as many guys as he struck out, even if he managed to cut his HR rate in half last year (and how sustainable is that?)
But hey, it’s good to know he can <a href=”http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/06/09/sports/s013546D26.DTL”?play right field — with Guillen gone, perhaps he can do that on the days he doesn’t start.
Oops, that last graph was supposed to be
But hey, it’s good to know he can play right field — with Guillen gone, perhaps he can do that on the days he doesn’t start.
Bowa is dealing with “a personal issue”, which I’m sure has nothing to do with the Yankee bench coach opening
If the Mariners manage to get more than a bag of baseballs for Richie Sexson, I will be ecstatic.
I think the sad part is even if another team put in an offer for Sexson then the M’s staff will balk,(sorry for the pun, when one was not intended),and think there must be something in Sexson so we will have to keep him.
Arrrrrgggggggg!
Yeah, I promise, I do. I really do.
A bad habit.
joser, I get to hear a lot of KNBR, the Giants flagship. Although the talking heads aren’t the team’s management, they’re also not a bunch of sports talk screaming blowhards either.
It’s generally agreed that the Giants will package Lowry with some other pitcher/s for position players. They are literally desperate, with multiple needs in the infield and outfield, nobody in the minors and the rookies they have brought up aren’t that exciting.
They’re ready for change; a team that’s learned what veteran grit gets you–last place in the division.
The one thing they do have is pitching. Lowry was highly regarded, but now that they have the new shiny things of Cain and Lincecum, nobody seems to care about Lowry any more. And believe it or not, although everyone agrees the Zito contract stinks, they expect to give him another year to see if he rebounds.
The Giants are a team that started Aurilia and Klesko at first this year. The talking heads, as they discuss this stinkiness all year, bring up Sexson’s name as a player to trade for. However, I do think they’d expect a lot of Sexson’s contract to be eaten. They aren’t *that* desperate and they have their own horrible contract to choke down.
I don’t suppose Bowa’s personal issue has anything to do with too much Bushmill’s?
#35: True, maybe I just think that about Tejada not because of his performance but because of that fact that if there is anything Baltimore should’ve spent money on in the past, it’s pitching and not hitting.
Even though Miguel Tejada is as good as he is, he’d probably make the same difference in win-loss record to the Baltimore Orioles as he would to the Kansas City Royals. Obviously any team would be better for having his bat around, but unless you are the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Mariners, Cubs, etc., a salary like his can cripple your team because you can’t spend money on other areas of need, particularly pitching and defense, to make yourself a championship contender.
So in a way, you could say they overpaid dearly for his service.
Of course, that’s just my way of thinking, take it or leave it.
If anyone did claim Sexson on waivers, I suspect part of it was that he had (past tense being key here) a reputation for getting hot in the second half. That didn’t pan out.
On the (probably valid) assumption that no one is any longer interested in picking up Sexson’s salary, the right way to approach this is to stop thinking of Sexson’s salary as 14 million next year. Instead, Bavasi should figure that he lost $13.65 million in a drunken binge at the Muckleshoot, and Sexson is making $350k next year. Is there someone better he can put at 1B for that money? Can he pony up a few more dollars for an upgrade? Or is Sexson – at $350k for one year – a decent bet to bounce back from a nagging injury and contribute?
Part of that calculation needs to be that the team already has a log-jam at 1B/DH (Vidro, Ibanez, Sexson, Broussard, Clement), and needs to move the less-productive logs on down the stream.
Hey, there lesser brained GM’s outthere than BB, so Richie has some value, but we will pay a la Cirillo. Hey but once he was gone, we could all move on. This is what I am looking for, not who will we get, but get him gone!
Get Clement up here, he can learn under Kenji while banging the ball under any number of circumstances, including stints at 1b.
My $0.02, fully depreciated.
50…We can always pray that the greater fool theory helps us get Richie moved out.
I heard from someone who works for the team that Sexson’s injury is more serious than they have let on and is likely to be career-ending.
52 – Really? Hello, insurance!