M’s deal Broussard, keep HoRam

Dave · December 13, 2007 at 7:40 am · Filed Under Mariners 

Yesterday was the deadline to tender contracts to arbitration eligible players or let them become free agents. The Mariners decided that Ben Broussard didn’t fit in their plans for 2008 and would have non-tendered him, but the Rangers stepped in and gave them a C- prospect so that they wouldn’t have to bid for him as a free agent. Broussard should get a decent opportunity in Texas, and the M’s get something instead of nothing, though Tim Hulett is about as close to nothing as you can get back in a trade. If he continues to develop and everything goes well, he’ll be a backup infielder. Hulett’s lack of a future isn’t any kind of indictment on the M’s trading abilities, though – there just wasn’t much of a market for Broussard.

On the other hand, the M’s decided to keep Horacio Ramirez, apparently believing their own lies that he was just confused and poorly coached last year. You have to wonder what it will take for this organization to realize how to evaluate pitching talent correctly – Horacio Ramirez is a Triple-A arm, and that should be pretty obvious to anyone who watches baseball with even a casual eye. This was obvious last year when the M’s traded for him, and his horrendous year in Seattle didn’t make him any more valuable. That they’re willing to give a replacement level pitcher millions of dollars to try to resurrect some potential he’s never had is just a continuing sign that the Mariners don’t have any better of an idea of what makes a good pitcher now than they did twelve months ago.


45 Responses to “M’s deal Broussard, keep HoRam”

  1. Tom on December 13th, 2007 7:42 am

    If anyone in this organization had the power to hire and fire, or better yet, have the guts to hire and fire. Which is what they should’ve used on this whole front office after ’06.

  2. Tom on December 13th, 2007 7:43 am

    If only*

  3. horatiosanzserif on December 13th, 2007 7:44 am

    I believe we got Tug Hulett, not Tim Hulett, though they sound like nearly the same player. Maybe we can snag Fred Manrique for Sexson, while we’re at it.

  4. Dave on December 13th, 2007 7:49 am

    Tug Hulett = Tim Hulett Jr. They sound like nearly the same player because they’re father and son.

  5. idahowriter on December 13th, 2007 8:06 am

    And HoRam = example of terrible pitcher evaluation + inability to admit terrible pitcher evaluation.

  6. Tom on December 13th, 2007 8:10 am

    Since we might as well look ahead to 2009 in light of this news, any USSMariner approved GM canidates out there right now since Antonetti will eventually be the GM in Cleveland?

  7. Mr. Egaas on December 13th, 2007 8:16 am

    Seems like there’s never a market for our guys, because 1) We paid too much in the first place, and 2) We keep them too long.

  8. dlb on December 13th, 2007 8:17 am

    So the nightmare continues. I actually was holding out some hope that no moves would be made this off season, because almost all of Bavasi’s off-season moves are bad. Ugggh.

  9. shemberry on December 13th, 2007 8:23 am

    I know I am going to get blasted for this, but I don’t mind them keeping HoRam. He cost them money, but it’s only one year and it didn’t cost them any more players. This stinks, but it’s better than Lohse at 4/44 or sending Clement to LA for Jason Schmidt.

  10. HamNasty on December 13th, 2007 8:24 am

    At least we don’t have a park that fits Broussard’s hitting style and an albatross at first to ditch… And we do have the need for the worst pitcher in our rotation from last year. Really, I would have preferred to get Weaver back instead. What horrible news to wake up to on my first day of winter break.

  11. shemberry on December 13th, 2007 8:27 am


    I would assume that moving Broussard has nothing to do with Sexson’s future, and should not impact what they do with him either way, is that true? Also, is there a chance that Richie hits 20 HRs by July 15, and with the M’s inevitably 10 games out somebody overpays us to have him for the stretch run?

  12. Manzanillos Cup on December 13th, 2007 8:57 am

    Maybe HoRam can come out of the pen if the organization is serious about Morrow starting and we pick up Kuroda or someone else. Might add on a couple more MPH to the fastball, and he is a slight GBer.
    One can hope.

  13. bakomariner on December 13th, 2007 8:59 am

    this is what we knew would happen though…nobody should be surprised…hopefully ramirez sucks it up in spring training and is sent to tacoma or released…

  14. manifestus on December 13th, 2007 9:22 am

    On the bright side, HoRam can’t get any worse … can he? Ok, maybe that isn’t really a positive.

  15. Eugene on December 13th, 2007 9:28 am

    What are the chances that over the course of a season Horacio Ramirez would out perform R.A. Dickey? I’m thinking slim to none.

  16. Salty Dog on December 13th, 2007 9:37 am

    The real downside to HoRam isn’t tendering him a contract, it’s the opportunity cost of him taking up a spot in the rotation that could be put to better use. The $3 mil, or whatever it is, doesn’t really hurt that much, although there are certainly better uses for that money.

    Is it possible to send him to AAA and leave him there until/unless someone gets hurt?

  17. SDRE on December 13th, 2007 9:43 am

    Any interest in other non-tendered pitchers. Josh Towers, Mark Hendrickson, Chad Durbin, or Kiko Calero?

    Also any interest in Adam Everett? You’ve gushed at his defensive abilities. But does have offensive limits. Maybe Lopez gets booted, Betencourt move to 2B and Everett at SS.

  18. msb on December 13th, 2007 9:45 am

    TR Sullivan was on the radio earlier claiming that Tug’s upside was Rich Aurilia, conveniently forgetting that Aurilia had become ‘Rich Aurilia’ before he’d hit 28.

    TR also opined (unasked) that he would never trade Morrow for Bedard.

    I’m just waiting for the moment this spring when Tug & Willie first run into each other in the clubhouse and, thinking they are looking into a mirror, perform a wacky mirror-image routine.

  19. bakomariner on December 13th, 2007 9:54 am

    i would be all for going after Hendrickson and Prior now…i would think that they might be able to be had on the cheap…

  20. DMZ on December 13th, 2007 9:55 am

    (after deleting hijacks)

    There’s a Mitchell thread now.

  21. Tom on December 13th, 2007 10:07 am

    #19: I can live with signing Prior if it’s something along the lines of a 1 year-5 million type deal if not less. I can tell you right now, unless there is some kind of mini collusion among the 30 GMs and they refuse to give the likes of Kyle Loshe 4 years-44 million or whatever, you are going to find the price for pitching is going to go through the roof with Colon’s price tag included. Especially considering a guy like Colon who has had all the PAST success that he’s had.

    Either way, we need to sign at least one guy to have a healthy 4-5 way competition for spots 4-5 considering that we know Horacio is a disaster and R-R Smith and Morrow are somewhat question marks at this point.

    If we have to rebuild/retool a little this year until the bad/logjam contracts expire (Sexson, Ibanez, HoRam, etc.), then fine, whatever. I just hope that by this time next year, this team will be in a position to make moves that gets itself in the playoffs for ’09 and Bavasi is out as GM which I could definitely see happening if this team were to go from 88 wins to, lets say, 75 because it’s a retooling year when this team’s goal was to make the playoffs. Certainly Bavasi won’t have a leg to stand on with those all important season ticket holders and potential season ticket holders if he goes 5 years as GM without coming close to sniffing the playoffs.

  22. Mr. Egaas on December 13th, 2007 10:13 am

    If we are looking for more Bloomie-types, Jason Tyner is available as well.

  23. Tom on December 13th, 2007 10:14 am

    #22: Maybe we can coax Jeff Manto out of retirement.

  24. msb on December 13th, 2007 10:45 am

    IIRC, Manto is now the White Sox roving hitting instructor (having helped the Pitrates hitters so much)

  25. msb on December 13th, 2007 11:05 am


    from Rotoworld:
    “Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reports that the Twins have signed shortstop Adam Everett to a one-year contract.

    That was quick. Let go by the Astros Wednesday following the trade for Miguel Tejada, Everett quickly lands a starting job in Minnesota. He’s a horrible hitter, but Everett’s defense is second-to-none and the Twins had a gaping hole at shortstop after dealing away Jason Bartlett. The switch to the AL means that Everett may finally win the Gold Glove that he’s long deserved.”

  26. galaxieboi on December 13th, 2007 11:21 am

    Apparently the Giants have signed Aaron Rowland to a 5 year $60M deal.


  27. ballgamejr on December 13th, 2007 11:44 am

    I’m fine with these moves as long as it keeps us from spending any more money on guys this year. Sexson contract comes off the books this year, so next year they will have money to spend when the free agent crop of pitchers should be better than this years.

  28. joser on December 13th, 2007 11:44 am

    What!? And snatch it away from the pirouetting beauty that is Derek Jeter? Maybe if he went to Boston and got some exposure. But Houston was the nation’s fourth largest city; by comparison, Minnesota is the dark side of the moon (even if they play the AL East a few times every year).

    Which, now that I think of it, makes me wonder how much the Red Sox regret that $9M/year they’ve got sunk into Julio Lugo for the next couple of years. Offensively, Lugo and Everett are almost the same player; but Everett is better defensively, he’s two year’s younger, and he should only cost ~$3M (on a short deal that would make him easy to dump or flip if something better comes along).

    On the plus side, I guess, is that we now get to see him play a few times against the M’s every year. Unfortunately, that’s going to mean watching a few of Ichiro’s infield singles get turned into outs or double plays.

  29. TomC on December 13th, 2007 11:48 am

    As Dave observes this is “a continuing sign that the Mariners don’t have any better of an idea of what makes a good pitcher now than they did twelve months ago.”

    The chances of the Mariners acquiring anybody of significant value to the team this offseason are growing increasingly remote. Given that reality, it seems clear the Mariners will only make the playoffs after they have gone through (another) rebuilding phase.

    What maddens me about this state of affairs is two things: 1) They should have properly rebuilt the team after 2004 but didn’t; and 2) there is almost no chance Bavasi et. al. will rebuild them now, thus continuing the purgatory for the fans for at least a few more years.

    It has been previously pointed out that we should not expect Bavasi and McLaren to take the long view as they can expect to lose their jobs if the Ms don’t put up a competitive team *this year*. Fine, we need to acknowledge and accept basic human motivations. The real blame, therefore, lies with Howard Lincoln.

    One thesis is that Lincoln is successful because the Mariners are profitable – mom and pop bring the kids to the stadium, radio and TV deals are great, etc. This is a fine view if you are an owner and are interested in a financial return.

    From the viewpoint of the fans, however, Lincoln is an abysmal failure. All of us here sense the impending doom of another so-so season. There is only so much joy you can take from a .510 season with your team finishing 9 games out (and that is the upper boundary of expectations for this team). Fan enthusiasm has been replaced with mere interest. Soon interest will be replaced with apathy.

    In the final analysis it is fan apathy which is the greatest threat to the owner’s financial well-being. Mom and Pop will not bring the kids to watch a game if it no more compelling than watching Oprah reruns. The team does not need to win the division every year, but we should have hope that they are progressing and not just existing.

  30. pensive on December 13th, 2007 11:51 am

    Dave has often pointed out that our pitching may improve with upgrade in defense. It appears neither is being addressed yet.

    Bavasi is always seems to keep tight lipped regarding what the team is working on, it is difficult to know.

    It should remain interesting just how creative the front office will be attempting to improve.

  31. Pete Livengood on December 13th, 2007 12:10 pm

    Unless your name is Ben Broussard, this is just a sad day all around. Tendering a contract to Ramirez might be worse that flushing money down the toilet (at least there is arguable entertainment value in that). And, why trade Broussard within the division? I actually expect Ben may hit pretty well in Texas, and completely agree with Dave about him getting a decent opportunity there. Good for Ben. I just wish that, if it worked out for him, it wouldn’t come at our expense.

  32. msb on December 13th, 2007 12:11 pm

    And, why trade Broussard within the division?

    well, they wanted him, for one. Broussard feels it was a gift from Bavasi, getting him close to home.

  33. rcc on December 13th, 2007 12:14 pm

    I have so little faith in the M’s front office that I agree with # 9….if re-signing Horacio stops the M’s from signing another loser at 10 million a year for 4 years then one more year of Horacio may not be such a bad thing.

    Look at the track record….the M’s obtained Perez (now with ESPN) and Broussard for Choo and Cabrera, and what remains is “Tug”. Well Astrubel Cabrera is now the “untouchable” and inexpensive starting second baseman for the Indians for the next five? years.

    Unlike others, I am not looking for the M’s front office to pull something off….I just don’t want them to screw up too badly. I have set the bar low….a successful offseason is when the M’s don’t screw up. I am keeping an eye south to see what Billy Beane does this off season….now that is a guy you can faith in…if only I could say the same about Bill and his crew.

  34. Tom on December 13th, 2007 1:47 pm

    #29: It’s not so much that the team should’ve decided to rebuild so much as they didn’t build this team correctly. This is a front office that just doesn’t seem to realize that the free agent market is a fools game (see: Jarrod Washburn, Miguel Batista, Jeff Weaver, Richie Sexson, etc.) and unless the player you are about to get is a total all around star and will be for the remainder of the contract, there isn’t much of a point just to throw money at him.

    And then when the Mariners saw that they weren’t attracting a ton of premier free agents here, Seattle would make the mistake of either trading prospects to fill a need (i.e. Eduardo Perez for A. Cabrera) or grossly overpaying for free agents just to show Lincoln that the Mariners were “committed to winning” before they fell into the attendance situation that teams like Cleveland and Colorado went through when they were rebuilding.

    It’s just sad that the person with the most influence in this organization is a man who just cares more about the green stuff that rolls in rather than the wins and losses and well being of the fans. And whoever says this “baseball is a business” bullshit needs to be reminded that teams and organizations like the Yankees, Tigers, Angels, and Red Sox realize baseball is a business too. But they don’t make excuses for it, they invest as much money and time as they feel is reasonable to young talent and established talent and they get results because of it. And when they do something wrong, they don’t just say that changing a manager or general manager is disruptive, they will fire his ass and find the next best canidate.

    And the sad thing is, until we get new owners or there is a HUGE decrease in ticket sales or cash flow, we should really expect more of the same out of this organization.

    $7.00 beer anyone?

  35. Gomez on December 13th, 2007 1:55 pm

    I’ll settle for a $3 beer before the game down the street, thanks.

    Some pitchers need to master a 2nd, 3rd or 4th pitch before they become effective starters. Ho needs to master a 1st pitch. And I’m not sure he’s even good enough for AAA right now.

    Throwing money at HoRam to try and justify the Raffy Soriano trade is like a poker player on tilt who’s throwing money at bad hands trying to atone for his losses. It’s a destructive and compounding mindset.

  36. et_blankenship on December 13th, 2007 3:44 pm

    I was hoping to make it through the winter without being reminded of the Eduardo Perez for Asdrubal Cabrera trade, but . . . the Indians have refused Beane’s multiple requests to include Asdrubal in a deal for Dan Haren. Eduardo Perez = Dan Haren? You betcha!

  37. The Ghost of Spike Owen on December 13th, 2007 5:08 pm

    I CANNOT watch another year of HoRam starts. It’s an untenable situation. What the hell are they doing? I’d rather have Weaver back than HoRam, and that’s really saying something.

  38. scott19 on December 14th, 2007 12:52 am

    With any luck, Baek or Dickey will beat HoRam out for a starting spot (both being probably more capable of going at least five innings on a regular basis, anyway), and we’ll then only have to use the foam rubber TV bricks for his occasional Gas Can appearances. :O

  39. Tom on December 14th, 2007 4:15 am

    #38: O C’MON!!! And not let HoRam’s VETERAN GRIT mean anything!?!?!

  40. Wishhiker on December 14th, 2007 6:07 am

    Well…More favors for players while the fans continue to wait for a favor from the team they put money into. Maybe if we can figure out a way that they’re our boss they’ll start doing us some favors…

    Mark Prior on a MiL deal sounds more reliable than Ho-Ram to me.

  41. msb on December 14th, 2007 2:43 pm


    Geoff Jenkins will likely sign with either the Phillies or Padres, according to his agent. “Things are definitely heating up with Philly and San Diego,” Damon Lapa told FOXSports.com on Friday. “We are in active negotiations and offers are going back and forth.”

  42. Logger on December 14th, 2007 5:29 pm

    On another note, the A’s just traded Haren and a prospect to the D-backs for 5 prospects. Webb and Haren will make a damn good 1-2 punch.

  43. Logger on December 14th, 2007 5:35 pm

    42 – 6 prospects. Apologies.

  44. msb on December 14th, 2007 6:41 pm

    “Diamondbacks acquired RHP Dan Haren and RHP Connor Robertson from the Athletics for OF Carlos Gonzalez, LHP Brett Anderson, OF Aaron Cunningham, 1B Chris Carter, LHP Greg Smith and LHP Dana Eveland.”

    oh, and the OC Register claims that Kuroda is now in LA, playing eeny-meeny between the M’s and the Dodgers…

  45. neil5611 on December 14th, 2007 7:18 pm

    Is it possible to get Rafeal Soriano back for Ho Ramirez as a Christmas gift?
    Has there been a worst trade in recent memory?
    What does Bavasi need to do to get fired!

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