Car shopping
Let’s say I need a car. My commute’s short, so I take the bus or bike to work as much as I can, but in the winter I frequently need to drive in, and then for errands and whatnot. If I made a list of my needs, it’d be “cheap, runs forever, enough headroom, ridiculous gas mileage, safe”.
Off the top of my head, I’d probably look at the Honda Fit, the Nissan Versa, and a Toyota Prius. They would to different degrees fill the need I’m looking for.
But wait. A Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder calls. I’ve never owned an exotic sports car. It gets ridiculous gas mileage, in a different way of course, it’s safe because it’s so uncomfortable and hard to drive it would never leave the driveway except on sunny weekends for leisurely day trips, it has enough head room, in a sense… and it’s only a bit over $200,000. And insuring it is possible, so that’s good, and I won’t have to put up with it for too long because I’ll wreck it or it’ll explode before a couple years have passed.
All I’d have to do is sell my house and all the stuff in it to live in the cheapest apartment I could find with nothing in it. And I’d have to find a new wife.
No problem, though, right? I’m sure there’s a decent apartment out there waiting for me that only costs $1, because there are more apartments than houses, and the market for houses isn’t that bad anyway. And what’s the total population of women out there — there’s a huge number of candidates. And I didn’t need all that stuff in the house anyway. And if there isn’t a $1 apartment, I’ll live in the car. No problem.
You may think I’m crazy to give up all that and go to all this trouble to get myself something so ridiculously overpriced, but look here:
- Five-liter V10 engine
- 520 horsepower
- 0-60 in negative two seconds
- fully retractable soft-top roof that I’ll never use because I’m in Seattle
The market price for that is over $200,000. If it’s that highly valued, it has to be awesome. Therefore buying one has to be a good move.
If you don’t have to sell the farm and can afford it why not. But unfortunately it looks like you will also have to sell the farm and your future. You are not the Yankees.
Don’t forget that the value of the “car” will drop by ~20% the minute you drive it off the lot.
I have a friend selling a 2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo with nice rims and front and rear radar jammers for $60,000. He played for the Seahawks too so that’s kind of a cool thing about the car. Might be a better deal for you than the Lamborghini.
One word: Minivan
The 2005 Porsche is too young and doesn’t have a proven track record. Better go for the $200K car.
So, Derek…are you telling us Geoff Baker is in the market for a Lamborghini?
I purchased my car for $900 in 2004. Some people chuckle when they see me pull up to make a sales call driving a 1986 Chevy Cavalier. However, it starts every day, gets me over 25MPG, has cheap insurance and licensing and I never have to worry about someone breaking into it or stealing it. When I park it downtown I do not care if someone from the suburbs smacks while attempting to parallel park.
Someday it will finally give up the ghost and while I can afford something newer, I will most likely pursue a similar car. The reason? There is no reason to overpay when I can get everything I need at a reasonable price.
Well I purchased my 1986 Toyota Corolla for $500. It works great all the time, gets excellent mileage and it’s easy to fix. So there.
I’ll be able to generate extra cash by putting the Lamborghini in car shows, and I’ll get a much more attractive wife in the future with the new car. I also have a crappy rental house I can live in for the time being, until I can find a not-as-nice-but-still-acceptable house.
DMZ,
Your negativity, your almost palpable hatred for excitement never ceases to amaze me.
You’ve never driven a Versa, right? So you’re just making an ASSUMPTION that it gets great gas mileage. It’s a new model, so it’s not like you’ve got years of data on it. How do you know it isn’t more uncomfortable than the Lambo? You don’t.
Then there’s the elephant in the room: your failure to account for the excitement that your lambo purchase would make to your neighborhood. I’m not saying it’s not painful to lose a wife and home. It is, and this deal would be a slam dunk if you didn’t have to give those up. But let’s get real: you’re adding the equivalent of at least $500,000 in margianl excitement above sub-compact. The psychic revenue you get from kids giving you a thumbs up, the girls who never use to look at you…looking at you, the cool guys on motorcycles ostentatiously pulling their sunglasses down to make sure they’re actually seeing what they think they’re seeing.
Factor THAT in and redo your calculations. Halve my number if you don’t like it – make it $250,000. Still works
And if you don’t think it’s easier to get a replacement-level wife with a lamborghini, I just don’t know what to say to you.
Don’t forget that your new car should alleviate the new wife problem, at least initially. You should have lots of women attracted to you because of your new car. After a little while they’ll realize you foolishly spent your money and don’t have any money to buy them anything shiny at all and they’ll leave. Luckily, your wife, despite all of your flaws will stick around, regardless of how miserable she is.
What would be great is if you could get that Honda Fit for a nice cheap price, but then in a year or so it turns into an Accord, then a few years later an Acura. Heck it may even turn into a Porsche several years down the line. And all the while your car payment would barely increase over those of the Fit you bought in the first place, the insurance wouldn’t go up, and it would still get great gas mileage. Man, that would be sweet…
Wait, this metaphor confuses me. If Adam Jones is a sensible, well-kept subcompact with good mileage from the 80s, he’s a “proven veteran.”
1 word. Subaru
Why not just get a horse. Low gas mileage, produces recyclable fertlizer that you can sell and it does attract a certain type of woman.
says the guy from tumwater…..
Yeah, but you’re in sales and marketing, don’t forget. A Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder makes you into a major player in an industry that is very results-oriented. Nothing is guaranteed, but it is likely that the Spyder will offer increased short-term results as you build your business in 2008. If that translates into increased sales and a top-four finish in your league of American Salesman — or if you’re picked as the best in the West — it’s a wise investment indeed.
You definitely need results now, because you know that there’s a lot of buzz about the boss making a change in your position of the numbers don’t improve before October. And if you want to be a top salesman and marketer next season, you probably do need a better car than you have currently. Paying twice the retail price for a Chevy Nova from that dealer in Atlanta last year turned out to be a pretty dumb business decision.
I meant to say good gas mileage–sorry about that.
And if you don’t think it’s easier to get a replacement-level wife with a lamborghini, I just don’t know what to say to you.
VORW?
10 – The wife you get because you have a Lamborghini is also the wife who will take the Lamborghini when she leaves you for the next great thing.
Also, let’s be honest … looking at the sales figures, it’s just you and the guy from Anaheim who have a real chance at winning the Western Division in Sales.
Crazy Billy in Oakland sold off his entrie lot to pre-order one of those fancy electric cars that will go 500 miles to the gallon and drive 120 miles per hour in a few years. Sucker! Not only is he out of the running for this year, that investment may not even pan out. And the guy who took over the Texas Region is also selling, so no worries there.
But in the cold, hard light of reality, the Anaheim guy has a lot more going for him — a fleet of Porsches, plus a couple of inexpensive young drivers to come along for the ride. On paper, you gotta do something to make up that gap.
So if a Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder at least gives you a puncher’s chance at knocking off those stuck-up fancypantses from Anaheim and getting to stand as the big winner in October, doesn’t that become more attractive. Your wife surely won’t leave you if that happens, and the bank may even let you refinance the house. Plus, it may be the only chance you have to keep your job — the boss has let it slip that he’s looking for performance, not future promises.
Wait, this metaphor confuses me. If Adam Jones is a sensible, well-kept subcompact with good mileage from the 80s, he’s a “proven veteran.â€
No, Derek is talking about a cheaper, reliable new car. The ’86 Cavalier is the “proven veteran”.
I actually think CecilFielderRules nailed it. I’m a VW tech so I’ll go with that. You could start out in a decent, $17K 2.5 liter Beetle, because, well you’re just out of college/into a new career and that’s what works best for you. In a year or two it turns into a GLI Jetta, than into a R32 Rabbit. Maybe after 4 or 5 years on the road you’ve got yourself a $100k Phaton with a 12 cylinder. Sounds like a pretty good investment, yes? Certainly cars don’t do that, but ball players do.
To be fair to Geoff Baker I’m sure there is the enthemematic premise that Bedard would allow you to attract a smarter more attractive partner, even if you still had to give up your house to do so…but yeah, he does actually say “look the market says that things of type Y costs X so you should give up X without paying any attention to the relative value to the team of X and Y”. Weird.
VORW. LOL
“10 – The wife you get because you have a Lamborghini is also the wife who will take the Lamborghini when she leaves you for the next great thing.
But that’s what flexible roster/family construction can do for you. Losing one doesn’t matter, because you can still get 90% of the production for a fraction of the cost with the next wife. You’ve still got a lamborghini, don’t you? It’ll be *fine*. I’ve already conceded that you’re going with replacement level wives, or will be down to that in a few years. It’s not a deal breaker.
What DOESN’T work is getting the Versa, and then relying on a whole series of things going right with your personality/sense of humor/job situation/timing/compatibility/common interests in order to MAYBE get a top-notch wife. Take the sure thing – get the lambo.
But you don’t need the replacement level wife if you buy the Versa. If you’re that unhappy with your car/spouse/family situation than you’ve done a poor, poor job running your franchise and perhaps it’s time to talk about contraction.
Well, look at it this way. The Honda Fit does everything you need it to do for a low price, neatly rounding out your garage.
Some garages, much different from yours, really need that Gallardo to put them over the top to become one of the two or three best garages around.
But, your garage isn’t like that. Adding a Gallardo to your garage (and now your garage is metaphorical because you had to sell it to afford the car) basically cripples your garage. It can now do one thing really well, but that isn’t actually something you need it to do. Plus, it’s vastly more expensive than a complete garage you CAN use.
That the Gallardo sells for $200,000 doesnt mean the Gallardo offers every possible buyer $200,000 of value. It just means that it offers some buyers $200,000 of value, and those are the buyers who should be interested in buying a Gallardo.
You shouldn’t. Get a Honda.
Actually the wife took the Lambo in the divorce. You are now reduced to driving a used vehicle to pay alimony. Your friends now hang out with your ex-wife because she now has your cool car.
Well put, Evan.
I think you should save all your money, by the cheapest thing possible, eat cold oatmeal for breakfast everyday, and die with millions in the bank.
If you have the budget for the Lambo, why not buy a Lambo.
It’s much more useful that having 10 Priuses sitting around the garage that you can’t use. It will be incredibly fun to drive and you’ll love owning it.
I don’t think the issue is buying a Honda Fit or a Lamborghini, it’s that when you buy an expensive car, you check under the hood to make sure the engine is there.
[yes yes, see yesterday's discussion]
Minivan… ROTFLOL… I almost puked in my coffee!
And yes, the only two vehicles I own today are two honda odyssey’s (2001 & 2005).
On a side note, go get the Lambo… err I mean Johan. He’d pitch so much better.
I agree with DMZ. Not every club has the resources or is in a position to purchase a Lamborghini, or a Hummer, or some other extremely expensive car. Those cars might be better than my Subaru, but if I was to purchase one of those others at “market value,” I would be less able to pay the mortgage and other bills and expenses. My lamborghini, purchased at “market value” is a detriment to my overall economic and financial situation.
The M’s are better off driving Adam Jones than purchasing Erik Bedard at “market value.”
I bet you would use the fully-retractable soft-top for the very reason you state (Seattle). You would use it in its “Up” position.
Second place – a set of steak knives.
As far as exotic cars go, the 08 Gallardo is a rookie without a proven track record. And it really is only an Audi R8 with a different badge. I notice on craigslist there are a few used italian exotics from the 70s and 80s for sale at rather reasonable prices. One or two of them might even have been through the wars.
“And if you don’t think it’s easier to get a replacement-level wife with a lamborghini, I just don’t know what to say to you.”
Ha!
Wouldn’t Bartolo Colon be like a decent Mustang that’s had a bit of restoration work done to it?
There’s nothing wrong with that.
wait a minute . .you guys aren’t really talking about cars at all, are you?
Have you thought of this from the seller’s perspective? The conversation went something like this (Derek is played by a much less reasonable man, who, though personable, is wow’ed by red paint on fast things):
Seller: You totally need this car, it’s hot, it’s worth the cost and . .sit here [motions to the driver's seat - DMZ sits]. Nice eh?
DMZ: Drools.
Seller: See here’s the thing. I don’t really need to sell this. I am giving you a deal by only asking for $200,000. This is a car that appreciates, in fact. I am perfectly happy to go into the spring and summer -prime crusing months – with this baby in the collection. So, this deal won’t be around for long. How’s the fleet of busted-down beaters blending with the Buggati Veyron that you are still waiting anxiously to open up on the road, but hasn’t quite performed as hoped? That working out for you ok?
DMZ: Uh . .
Seller: I heard that if you go with that crew again around the “Bugatti of the future” you probably won’t even make it in to work most days. That true?
DMZ: Well . .
Seller: so what’s it gonna be? Look you traded for Horacio freakin Ramirez . .I mean you traded away a nice little Audi for a Vespa last year that wouldn’t perform when it got more than 100 miles from home. What’s the problem here? This is a really nice car that’ll prove you are committed to driving right. You gonna be a Nancy and let what you have – which isn’t much in my view – keep you from what you want?
DMZ: Could you lift the hood for me again?
You know, I have reading and following you guys for a few weeks now on every aspect of this argument, and correct me if I am wrong, but either way out of this and we are hosed as an organization (organization = the collective Mariner fan base).
First – we beg for starting pitching. We sign Silva to a crappy, horrid contract that ties us up with a market rate decent pitcher with average “stuff” and does nothing except patch a void which HoRam should be leaving on his way to a permanent stint in the minors.
Ok, then we speculate a move for someone like Colon for a one year deal like our favorite journeyman from last year with the Spokane Mullet. However, this hasn’t materialized so we’re pissed and we complain. However, if we were to pick him up, he goes down (like he has the last couple of seasons) with some Nancy-ass shoulder tendinitis and we complain about his lack of fitness, work ethic, or commitment to the team.
Next, we make a move for a proven, torrid, kick-ass arm in Bedard, and now we’re pissing and moaning because we’re locked up in giving away “the farm”, even though Morrow and some other solid prospects haven’t been listed in the deal, and there’s a lot better opportunity to find a solid outfielder in the market today than a starting pitcher (complain with your stats, evaluations, whatever you want, but the outfielder market is a hell of a lot juicier than the pitching market has been in a while).
Finally, the Mariners potentially move into the season having done nothing except for what has transpired so far (which has been to infuriate the masses), and we question our front office contributions and commitment to ROI for our season ticket holders, our city, and being to sign ourselves up for therapy due to the pain and suffering we have endured which is called a baseball season.
Am I discounting Jones and his value to the organization? Hell no, dude is incredible and I don’t think we should be trading him for Bedard. However, I still think we need to find a way to shore up this rotation to be competitive, and if we need to trade a stud outfielder to do so, I think that would be easier to replace in the mix than find an arm which has the potential to dominate like Bedard.
Where do you guys find the time to be happy about stuff? I seriously would hate to hear you talk about your normal daily routines if this is how you discuss a hobby and sport such as baseball.
As far as exotic cars go, the 08 Gallardo is a rookie without a proven track record.
But as far as players go, the ’08 Gallardo is an ultra-cheap (not eligible for arbitration, under team control for multiple years), talented starting pitcher with a great minor league track record and a solid rookie season behind him. I’ll trade the Prius that is Adam Jones for this Gallardo anytime.
I get it. You want Barry Bonds…….
Actually, I think the argument has been that replacing Jones’ contributions is a lot harder than people think, particularly given the current makeup of the team.
I’m tired of this analogy.
Having problems with your Volvo again?
I think the analogy has been driven into the ground
Jason, I see what you did there.
I totally get your point and your analogy but you’ve left a big factor out of it.
In reality, you don’t need just one car. You need five cars because the law in your state is that you, the husband, can only drive one of these cars every fifth day. The question really is, how do you spread your finite resources over those five days. You could buy the Lamborghini but then you could only buy one, slightly used Honda Civic, one 1991 VW Beetle, one 1985 Grenada, and one 1971 Vega to use the rest of the week.
Your wife, not subject to the every five day law, drives a very nice Toyota Camry. It gets her to work every single day. It has a nice sound system so she enjoys her drive. It has good acceleration so she can work her way through traffic if she needs to and it is new enough and high enough quality that she hardly ever can’t drive it when she needs it.
In order to finance your Lamborghini, you have to trade in her Camry for a 1990 Camry. Fine car for a long time, a neighbor favorite, but now it has high mileage, burn a lot of oil, and just can’t get to the open spot in the fast lane anymore.
What you’ve done is trade one good but temperamental drive in the Lamborghini, provided it’s not in the shop, one boring but dependable drive to work, one crapshoot, and two guaranteed rides from hell. Every fifth day. Meanwhile, your wife misses work a couple of days and gets canned. Household revenues are down and now how are you going to pay your insurance bill.
Alright; I feel stupid-er for having read everything here.
Erik Bedard is not a $200,000 Lamborghini.
Show me another ace that’s on the market, and I’ll show you a damn high price tag. They don’t fuc-ing grow on trees.
Gee, guy….I think you just proved their point for them…
40 (thowe1),
… but you’ve assumed that we need a single dominant pitcher, which isn’t the case. As is often pointed out here, there are two ways to give up less runs: pitching, and fielding. And as you point out, it can be very expensive (through dollars and/or prospects) to upgrade pitching. Isn’t the obvious solution, then, to improve the fielding? As you’ve pointed out, there are plenty available. Our entire rotation, not just one guy, looks better if we get Ibanez out of left, and it can be done much more cheaply, without the loss of any prospects. Also, Sexson hurts us, so we should be able to replace that glove even more easily than a corner outfielder. Pitching is far more expensive, per win, than any other improvement the M’s could make. Doesn’t that fact suggest that pitching should be the very last thing we fix, after we’ve fixed the other problems first?
Now, you may believe that every great team needs a kick-ass #1 starter. If you were to say that (and I’m not saying you, specifically, did or would), I would answer that all you have to do is score more runs than you give up. And any combination of players that accomplishes that goal at the lowest cost is the best way to do that. When the postseason rolls around, and every game counts, I might believe the argument that dominant TOR can make all the difference (see 2001 D’Backs), but let’s worry about that when the trade deadline rolls around and we know we’re in contention, not before the season.
So… Miguel Cairo is a 70′s Pacer we’ll keep in the backyard?
… And now my last comment is directed at dcmarinerfan (49), as well.
Also, a kick-ass #1 starter is only a small part of crossing the gap to “great team” from “YOUR 2008 Seattle Mariners.” And by gap I mean canyon/gorge. Do you mortgage your future to get marginally better now, or do you trust your talent development to help you get incrementally better without mortgaging your future through trading away homegrown talent? Even the Yankees seem to have figured out the right answer to this question, and they’ve been the worst offender as long as I can remember (though they of course could afford to try).
Varitek and Lowe for Slocumb.
Where do you guys find the time to be happy about stuff? I seriously would hate to hear you talk about your normal daily routines if this is how you discuss a hobby and sport such as baseball.
This is out of line. You don’t know us.
Can’t you use the Georgia Lemon Law provisions to get a replacement model for the clunker they sold Bavasi a year ago?
Maybe the site template needs some flowers and sunshine to convey a more upbeat mood.
Or maybe ponies.
Thanks for saying that Derek. All it takes is a read of your book to see the joy baseball brings you. Baseball fandom is like anything in life. Sometimes it brings joy, sometimes anger and frustration.
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but many of us that frequent USSM wanted the overall team defense to be a major point to be addressed this offseason. It has been ignored and that is why we may all be a bit overly feisty.
You can live in your car if you had to, but you can’t drive a house.
You can live in your car if you had to, but you can’t drive a house.
RV’ers would disagree…
Don’t forget that if you don’t think the Lamborghini is working out for you it is considered a collector’s car so will probably keep its value, or appreciate, and you may be able to sell it for more in a couple of years.
“RV’ers would disagree”
Well, now we’re talking about a whole different category of vehicle. A really nice RV can go for well over $200k and be counted on to do things that none of the other vehicles discussed here can. I think we should definitely get one of those if it is available, but from what I’ve heard the only dealerships that offer the kind we want are in New York, St. Louis, and Anaheim (and possibly Detroit), but they have none for sale at the moment.
Sorry for torturing the analogy further….
The analogy is so tortured that I’m not even sure what you’re talking about.
Bartolo Colon might be the SIZE of an RV by now, though…
- This is out of line. You don’t know us.
Derek, I totally agree, and that was a snap judgement on my part, and in all seriousness, I apologize. I just look at the trending and availability of players in the market as it currently stands, and you know, it does piss me off that we are moving towards a more reactive posture with our current front office in that we would rather utilize “veteran” players to motivate youngsters to do better, and look to move on a third season with working towards “improving Sexson by giving him more at bats or whatever it takes”. You know, and I have said this before, if the Mariners were a true business in a competative marketplace trying to produce revenue, we’d have been bankrupt a long time ago with this type of mode. If people don’t produce in corporate america, they are replaced or shuffled to an area where they are more quaified (in HoRam and Reitsma’s case, that would have been the mail room).
If that’s the posture that our management is going to take, then you know, I think in the best interest of our team the most solid improvement is going to be to acquire the most readily available staff ace on the market with the necessary chips. Since, unfortunately, we’re going to be stuck with Raul running around with his walker in the outfield and an infield that is producing sub-par numbers offensively.
Getting an ace starter is the least cost effective way to improve the Mariners. As I said in the thread below, it’s all about run differential, and how you get there is entirely irrelevant.
Right now the team’s huge weakness is defense. Fix that, not the rotation (which is still a little below average, but enh), because it can be done for no cost. Honestly, the difference between Raul’s glove and Jones’s is almost the same as between Ho pitching and Bedard.
with yesterday’s aquisition of cairo, and the rumor today that roberts is on his way to the cubs, is it possible that jose lopez becomes the centerpiece in the deal and not jones for bedard?
Merited or not, Jose Lopez’s trade value is just not that high right now.
He could be a piece, but probably not a centerpiece.
67- I wouldn’t think it would be, but they would need a guy ready to start, and Jose is young, has had an all-star selection, and when focused can really produce…I’d rather see Bloomquist, Cairo, or God help us Vidro at 2B if it meant we don’t lose Jones…
Get a Metro.
With all the money you save on gas you can buy the best available woman on the free market.
(I prefer to bring my own women up through the system and then trade them when they reach their peak.)
69 – Yeck.
I love the numbers and ultimately it is all about run differential. But I think when you have a chance to get a second #1 starter at the cost of two B+ prospects (Jones, Clement + Tui version of the deal), particularly when you are not a hot destination for free agents and the club’s track record in acquiring free agent pitching is not so fantastic.
I am new to regular reading of USS Mariner and I just find the general consensus of A. Jones alone is worth more than Bedard surprising.
Interesting discussion though. The 2-3 year forecast of the Mariners staff is an interesting question to ponder though.
So, Miguel Cairo can buy 4 of these Lamborghinis now. And still have enough left over to live relatively comfortably on. And if he reaches his incentives, he could almost buy one more…
Jones is not a B+ prospect.
Well, you definitely need to think about that…AND think about the everyday players as well.
People seem to be hypnotized by the possibilities of a “pitching ace.” But you definitely squander an ace’s talent if you don’t surround him with good talent. And the deals proposed pretty much prevents the team from surrounding Bedard with the talent he needs.
To “drive” (ugh) this analogy even further into the ground, the Lambo isn’t going to do you much good when it needs service and Raul Ibanez is the guy at the shop waiting to help you.
Well, that’s not exactly what people are saying.
You can make a case (and I would personally say) that Adam Jones is more valuable than Erik Bedard, period.
But once you think it through, and look at the current situation of the franchise, there is no question that Adam Jones is more valuable to the Mariners than Erik Bedard would be.
If the Mariners were one pitcher away from being able to compete with the elite teams in the league? Okay, maybe you pull the trigger on some of the deals that are being rumored around.
You still recognize you’re getting fleeced, but it’s slightly more acceptable if you feel you’re only one player away.
It’s likely that the Mariners are planning on making this move because they DO feel that they are only one player away…but the reality is that they’re not.
Look, I’m not arguing we should trade for Bedard, by saying “he’s not a $200,000 Lamborghini.”
Personally, I think Jones is a fine player, who’ll be pretty good over the course of his career, but he’ll never be a GREAT player.
But all this is beside the point.
We all agree that the team needs to move Ibanez out of Left, but no matter how much we bitch and moan and whine and cry and infuse our rants with jaded pessimism, that isn’t going to fuc-ing happen.
Yes, management blows. Yes, the manager blows. Yes, a lot of things blow.
But you know what, whether we have the Lamborghini or the overhyped prospect, we still have baseball.
how much is a 2008 Feierabend?
“Personally, I think Jones is a fine player, who’ll be pretty good over the course of his career, but he’ll never be a GREAT player.”
And you base this on? He’s not going to be in the top 10 players of all time, but he could be great. He certainly has the skills to make a bigger difference for our team than Bedard will all things considered (money, contracts/control, position, upgrades, years, etc.)
Just because we will all get excited to watch Bedard take the mound every fifth day (and most everybody will on this site), it does not mean a fan is forced to agree with the way we got him, or get excited about losing yet another name that will make his career and signficant headlines elsewhere. We can be excited about having a player on the roster but lament the fact he came at too great a cost, and creating too many holes.
You seem to be arguing for a fan mentality that can’t distinguish the two points, but I am not sure why anybody would want to be ignorant about the poor methods used to obtain a good. Yeah, Bedard might be a great pitcher, but some means to get him are foolish and admit of analysis as such. We all still want the M’s to win next year, but there’s ways to go about trying to build and sustain a good team that will work more often than others.
Shouldn’t we always want the team to go after goals in ways that work more to create and sustain a winner, even when what they are seeking is really shiny and wonderful?
Okay, time for a minor rant, since the “why can’t you be happier” postings are cropping up like wildfire again (in other words, this is not directed at any one individual):
All of us love baseball and the Mariners, or we wouldn’t be here.
That does not, however, mean we need to view everything about the game and how the Mariners choose to play it through an old-timey sepia-toned filter.
As Mariners fans, we want the product on the field to be the best it possibly can. When that is not happening, it is our DUTY as dedicated fans to point that out.
Now, whether the Mariners decision-makers actually are in a position to act on that feedback is another story entirely…but it’s the person who cheers every decision made, good or bad, because it’s “Their Team” that is the less dedicated fan, not all of us.
Rant over, but please seriously think about your position for a moment before you choose to post about how this site is always so negative.
Just because we’re frustrated about bad moves the team is making (or is about to make) doesn’t mean we’re bad fans, and it does the dedicated authors and readers of this site a disservice when you claim otherwise.
79: I’m not arguing for anything. I honestly don’t really have an opinion on the Bedard trade.
On the one hand, we lose Jones – likely.
On the other hand, we get an ace for at least a year, probably two, maybe more.
We could trade Bedard after one year, hopefully after a dominant one, for pieces like Jones that we traded away.
We could keep Bedard for two years, and use the two supplemental picks we’ll get for him going to pick up other pieces.
Or we could keep Bedard long term.
I don’t profess to know what the best move is. I don’t profess to know what the smartest move is. Honestly, I really don’t care what they do, because management has decided to put Bavasi and McLaren into a win now mode, by giving them one year deals.
Whether we get f’ed by trading Jones for Bedard, or whether we stand pat, I’ll still have 162 nights/days of Mariner Madness between April and September, and that makes me smile.
Jeff: I don’t think people are questioning the pessimism that abounds for any reason other than the following:
Look at the homepage of USSM right now. If you toss out the post on Rice, and you toss out the post on Monahan (steroid related), and the A’s trade post, EVERYTHING is fuc-ing negative.
And in large part, EVERYTHING always is. We get it. We know the front office sucks. We know the moves we’re making are bad. We know having Silva at 4/12 is not smart. But there are things to be happy about, and I’d just as soon not forget them.
81 – EXACTLY.
Well, I’ll push Derek a little more on seeing if we can put a nice sidebar with ponies to spruce things up a bit.
There are lots of things to be happy about, that have been discussed on this site before. They include:
Ichiro!
Adrian Beltre
King Felix
Willie Bloomquist on the bench (tee hee)
People shouldn’t reasonably expected to add a disclaimer to everything they post: “Ichiro rocks, but please don’t mortgage the team’s future for Erik Bedard.” “We love King Felix, but HoRam is a terrible pitcher.”
The only things the Mariners are DOING right now merit criticism. So, that is what is going to happen. Even if the authors were inclined to try to enforce Shiny Happy Posting, that is not what would happen.
Also, can we please stop with the semi-obscured profanity? It’s jarring to read and you can make your points without it.
Oh for the love of everything holy and just Jeff we don’t need ponies to be happy. All we need is baseball.
For nine times out of ten, a bad night watching baseball (presumably the M’s losing) is better than a good night doing anything else.
Whether they’ve been discussed at this site before, the things to be happy about are absolutely legit things, and they shouldn’t be forgotten or be overridden by our disdain for all other parts of the organization.
I certainly don’t expect a disclaimer to all posts. I’m perfectly fine with a post bashing the front office’s mindset in dealing for Bedard, or for a cynical “18 days without a bad move post,” But when that’s all we get, all the time, frankly, it gets old.
*mod hat on*
Honestly, I’m losing patience for all of these ‘USSM is too negative all the time and that hurts my feelings’ comments. If you have something to contribute to the discussion, by all means do so, but complaining about the site’s supposed attitude is detracting from the post, not adding to it.
*mod hat off*
although Derek is still waiting for that pony.
Dave and Derek often post about good things that are done, when good things are being done.
This is the winter when trade rumors, big signings, and minor moves are made. There is no other news. Perhaps you like sites that list only old information. For you, I recommend the tagotron 2000 to go back through the myriad posts about nice good-feeling things. Have at it.
Most of us come here for current events and thought/commentary on issues of the day regarding the team. So far, Silva, Cairo and a whole lot of bad speculation about a Bedard trade are the recent topics of note. If you want current events for us to be happy about, maybe you should be emailing the front office to create some good news, not commenting on a site that is so negative you feel the need to frequent it and tell everybody about it.
“For nine times out of ten, a bad night watching baseball (presumably the M’s losing) is better than a good night doing anything else.”
Who disagrees with this? (Except at the end of a double-digit losing streak that requires one to take a night off once a year, maybe).
If you’re looking for something positive, over at Lookout Landing is a series of top mariner moments of the past season. It (and the whole site) is worthwhile, regardless of whether you consider this site’s content as too negative.
And to 61, Bremerton Guy: Check out the prices for 20 to 30 year old exotic cars. They’re more affordable to buy than you might think. Basically, you’ll have to wait a really long time for this being a worthwhile investment. Gasoline may be hard to come by when a 08 Gallardo reaches that point.
Also, putting my mod hat back on for a moment, I am on the same page as Graham regarding these types of posts.
They really don’t add anything to the discussion, and the button at the bottom of the page says what it says for a reason.
I disagree. I’ve been watching this team suck since Year One, minus a few good (and fun) years earlier this decade. I’m done with that. If they don’t win, I don’t give a damn anymore.
Call me a fairweather fan if you want. I can’t think of too many other areas of life where people are expected to sit back and enjoy a mediocre or worse product, though. To carry on with Derek’s analogy a little, if my car only got up to 35 MPH on the freeway, I’d get a new goddamn car. Why should I reward the Mariners with my money and interest if they can’t be bothered to put a decent team on the field? Screw ‘em.
Unlike cars, the goal isn’t to just reach the finish line. A cheap “car” will get you to the 162nd game, but you’ll lose a hundred of them or more. That’s not good enough. I want to go fast and finish first, or at least threaten the bastards a little.
So what we should do is post alongside everything that could be taken negatively, one post that is unambiguously positive and happy to balance it?
Maybe I should just cut the site 50% with Cute Overload.
I’m telling you, man.
Ponies will solve everything.
Are the authors being overly negative because they’re worried about the merits of the possible Bedard trade and the long-run impact on the franchise?
Or are they being overly positive about the excitement, production, and value Jones will bring to the team playing every day for the next five years?
Is the glass half full or half empty?
Are the posts counting days without a bad move negative, or a celebration?
Ponies bite.
Also — they’re not all “fuc-ing” negative. Dave’s analysis says a Jones-Bedard trade would be bad. That’s down on the trade, but it’s a neutral judgement of something that hasn’t happened. There’s a post up so msb could throw some Bavasi quotes up.
So what we should do is post, along with everything that could be taken negatively, one post that is unambiguously positive and happy to balance it?
Fair and balanced!!
That does not, however, mean we need to view everything about the game and how the Mariners choose to play it through an old-timey sepia-toned filter.
Heh now! What’s wrong with old-timey sepia-toned filters???
I move that this image be USSM’s new logo.
…
Graham wins.
Bravo, Graham. Bravo.
WFB and My Little Pony. Love it.
How many days until “Pitchers & Catchers” report? That’s not negative … in fact, it always puts a grin on my face to hear that phrase.
OK, here is my anti-negativity post:
I’m all about being positive! And I’m in favor of a trade for Bedard! I believe he will help the team improve more than Adam Jones will, at least in the next 2 years. He’s a really, really good pitcher who strikes out alot of guys and goes pretty deep into games. He’s relatively young and cheap. He’s a dominant lefty pitching in Safeco field for Chrisakes! And his numbers are better against RHBs than LHBs. We can get on our feet with confidence with 2 strikes in those huge ABs against Guerrero, Rodriguez, and Ortiz in September (and maybe even OCTOBER!)
I am not in favor of chucking in the towel on the next season. I really, really enjoyed the 07 season up until you know when, and am not convinced they were merely playing over their heads till then. I want more of that. They should be playing to win next year, and every year thereafter.
Go M’s. Go Bavasi. Bring Bedard home. Make us lucky to be complaining about having one of the top pitchers in the game on our team!
There – I feel much better.
The power of positive thinking apparently leads to terrible analysis.
“How many days until “Pitchers & Catchers†report? That’s not negative … in fact, it always puts a grin on my face to hear that phrase.”
What if you changed it to, “How many days until Horatio reports?” Not so smiley now, are ya? Seriously though, pitchers and catchers report on Valentine’s Day this year . . . which, unfortunately, still can’t spare us from shopping for cheesy Hallmark cards.
Graham, that was freaking awesome. Oh and to DC Mariner fan I’m sure if you call tech support they can fix your computer so it doesn’t force you to come to this site whenever you turn it on. That way when it does “get old” you aren’t forced to subject yourself to it as it must be doing now.
I vow to stay positive even under withering author criticism and snarky comments.
106 – That did wipe the grin off my face … although your posting made me LOL so I guess it put the grin back on.
This is why I drive a truck… all this confusion and you can’t even throw a cooler of beer in the back.
Graham, I would copy write that idea asap!
It should be no easier to get a replacement level wife with a lamborghini than it would be with a six pack of warm Old Milwaukee in cans a pawn shop cubic zirconium, and a 50% off coupon to “Tats and ‘Tudes”….
Some of these comments remind me of when people say to me, “why are you so negative?”
It’s not about being negative, it’s about being realistic.
Bedard is not a $200,000 Lambo, Johan Santana is. Bedard is more like the Audi R8 you need to take to the shop every 6 months to get repaired. When the car is running properly, you don’t find anything much better. But after two years of frustration of having the vehicle in and out of the shop, you trade it in for something more dependable.
Unfortunately, dependability is becoming increasingly expensive and it is worth risking living through two years of frustration in hope you get the performance you are looking for.
As much as I like Jones, isn’t a Bedard/Silva combo give an 88-win team the boost to make the playoffs over Weaver/HoRam? I know Guillen’s production is gone, and so would Jones’s, but Wlad is a sufficient replacement for the time being as long as Sexson and Lopez can pick up the slack. Basically, we get the Audi R8 (Bedard) with a couple of Accords (Wlad/Silva) to replace the Acura TL (Guillen) and a couple of Pintos (Weaver/HoRam).
But you could always do some research and buy a Tesla. Half the price of your Spyder, 0-60 in less than 4 seconds, no emissions and gas-mileage equivalent of 230 MPG.
Sure the batteries die after 10 years or whatever, but boy does it run well for those first 10 years.
I agree with DMZ. Not every club has the resources or is in a position to purchase a Lamborghini, or a Hummer, or some other extremely expensive car.
Oh, but the Mariners can. Seriously. One of the most profitable clubs in MLB.
Now, whether it’s worth getting rid of Jones for Bedard… Mariners need pitching, but I don’t know if it’s worth coughing up that much. As Elvis said, “A little more cash, less attitude.”
Depending on how amoral you are, it’s still VORP.
Man, anyone who thinks that this is negative has obviously never been to a Red Sox blog before. Everything I see here is well thought out and objective. It’s not like it’s mindless bashing of the Mariners FO… even though it seems like they certainly would deserve it at times.
FWIW, I don’t see Bedard as any more than maybe the 10th best pitcher in the AL next year (and that’s not counting the possibly excellent rookie seasons of Joba, Buccholz, etc….) ZiPS is projecting Jones to be the Ms third best hitter and has him as a very good defender in the corners. Obviously, projections aren’t perfect but it’s hard to justify giving up cheap, defensively sound player with a potential impact bat that you control for at least 5 more years (not sure of his total service time) for a 28 year old pitcher that doesn’t have a long track record of dominance and has stated that he fully intends to not sign a contract extension wherever he winds up and to test free agency. You could liken the Mariners trading for Bedard to the situation that the Twins are in. They seem to have deluded themselves into thinking that keeping Santana would make them competitive. Both teams have several areas that need addressing and one starting pitcher, no matter how good, isn’t going to solve all of their ills.
But what if it’s not really your money?
And you lose your job if you don’t go really fast on your next trip.
And you may not be able to find another comparable job?
Chick dig the Lamborghini.
They also dig you not living in your parent’s basement though. Sigh. There’s always a catch.
In other news, Indian car manufacturer Tata Motors today introduced a replacement level vehicle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Nano
I’m guessing Bedard is the Lamborghini?
Heh, or maybe it’s just the mindset of the organization in general. I could see either.
Why all the fuss? Simply buy a vehicle with grit and everyday will seem like Christmas!
Living in a car is not as fun as it sounds. Several years ago my girlfriend kicked me out of the apartment for a few days and I lived in my ’87 Subaru GL with a leaky roof for that span. Sleeping wasn’t easy, and boy did I ever in the morning!