Zero days since a bad move

DMZ · January 27, 2008 at 5:22 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

It is confusing and distressing to witness a team that claims to be interested in fielding a competitive team over the long term trade a player of Jones’ talent and value, along what we reasonably expect to be highly valuable pieces, to the Orioles for a pitcher determined to test free agency at the end of his contract.

I have no doubt that the Mariners front office is interested in winning, and I wish that they would seek to become better by applying concepts in use by other, successful teams to realize the value of prospects like Jones, and to find alternatives to paying such high prices in trade. Such a change would be in the best interests of the team, by allowing it to face challenges by well-funded and well-run divisional rivals and also in the best interests of the fan base, who would like to see a Mariner team built to make a run at the World Series, and not just be part of the race for the division pennant for part of the season.

My best wishes go to Adam Jones, who I’ve been a fan of since I saw him play in Everett. I hope you go on to have a great career, even if it’s not with the Mariners where we could enjoy seeing your career.

My heart goes to the team, in the hopes that the extremely high price they have paid for their adherence to their philosophy leads them to consider a better way.


89 Responses to “Zero days since a bad move”

  1. billT on January 27th, 2008 7:00 pm

    Kiss any chance of a World Series the next 10 years goodbye.

    I’m not sure there was any chance to begin with 🙂

  2. DMZ on January 27th, 2008 7:01 pm

    If you think Clement is… no.

  3. Tom on January 27th, 2008 7:03 pm

    #49: So what the hell is really going on?

  4. Tek Jansen on January 27th, 2008 7:05 pm

    Maybe Jones is taking a break from Winterball and vacationing in luxurious downtown Baltimore.

    Maybe Angelos pulled the rug out from under MacPhail, as he has with GMs in the past.

  5. Sports on a Schtick on January 27th, 2008 7:06 pm

    C’mon Angelos; nix the deal.

  6. Tom on January 27th, 2008 7:07 pm

    Nix the deal! Nix the deal! Nix the deal!

  7. Joof on January 27th, 2008 7:08 pm

    Well, that surely was a downer. I was riding high coming off the Blazers coming back from a 19 point victory only to come here and lose that buzz.

    /me sighs.

    Well, at least Bedard is really good.

  8. jordan on January 27th, 2008 7:08 pm

    Maybe Adam Jones wanted to see how fast a rumor could spread.

  9. Carson on January 27th, 2008 7:10 pm

    I will never EVER call Angelos a bad owner again if he nixes this.

    I promise. Seriously.

  10. manifestus on January 27th, 2008 7:14 pm

    #24 –> Now if this were you know … back in 2001-2002 when a trade of the farm (given the likelihood that we’re about to be fleeced by Baltimore) for some stud pieces might would have made sense … but alas it isn’t. So trading our pieces for the now AND future for a slightly better shot (you know, as opposed to none at all) at the postseason … well that’s idiotic.

    That said, I agree with a few of the above posters; I’m resigned to this sort of fate, and at least we didn’t trade AJ for Blanton.

    #50 –> And concerning Clement … I’d rather they package Clement than lose Tillman and Triunfel. Given that this is the M’s we’re talking about, they probably included all three and tossed in Morrow and WLAD for kicks.

    Our OF is going to be ridiculously bad next year. Maybe we can merge Reed with Ibanez and get the stock corner OF that can somewhat hit and sort of move. In all likelihood though, we’ll end up with Bloomquist finally given a starting job in RF!

  11. Tom on January 27th, 2008 7:16 pm

    I promise to be a nice person if Angelos nixes this.

  12. Sports on a Schtick on January 27th, 2008 7:16 pm

    Jim Street reports the trade will likely include Jones, Sherrill, Tillman and a minor leaguer.

  13. Tom on January 27th, 2008 7:18 pm

    #62: Got a link?

  14. Jeff Nye on January 27th, 2008 7:20 pm

    I guess that isn’t as bad as it could be…still not great, though.

  15. cjudnich on January 27th, 2008 7:21 pm

    I’m personally excited for this trade. Bedard is ace quality and HAS DONE something in this league. Adam Jones is a stellar talent and has acres of potential but he has proved nothing beyond potential. The Mariners have a history of poorly developing they’re own talent save for Ken Griffey Jr. and Alex Rodriguez. Those two go beyond the definition of can’t miss prospects and are in the argument for best players of all-time, not much development needed there.

    Jones projects out to a Torii Hunter type player. Excellent player, but would I trade Torii Hunter for Erik Bedard? Every day of the week and twice on Sunday…. no problem.

    Bedard gives us a killer 1-2 punch at the top of the rotation and we can now compete in our own division, which is a hell of a lot more than we’ve done in the last few years.

    I applaud the Mariners for taking a chance. For years we hung on to “Can’t Miss” prospects that were untouchable; Gil Meche, Joel Pinerio, Ryan Anderson, Clint Nageotte, Travis Blackley, Roger Salkeld, Chris Snelling. I could go on and on. Now I understand most of the guys in this conversation are pitchers, but we cannot develop our own pitchers. We may as well trade for someone elses developed pitcher. If Adam Jones turns out to be in the 99th percentile of players that all of these people have anointed him to be, oh well, congratulations. But, alas, it is not likely. He’ll likely be another above average player like Torii Hunter, Shannon Stewart and Vernon Wells.

    Anybody remember the type of offers we were getting for Gil Meche and Joel Pineiro? Ridiculous talent.

  16. Sports on a Schtick on January 27th, 2008 7:21 pm

    The Mariner homepage.

  17. BrooksRob on January 27th, 2008 7:25 pm

    Embedded O’s fan (M’s too). Not a fan of this trade, if it’s real (see:,0,5598077.story).

    Bedard is a qualified stud – the best SP in baseball last year by the stats. If the M’s can get him for Jones and some prospects (not Truinfel) then they robbed the bank.

    If Bavasi blinked and threw in Truinfel, he should be fired.

  18. scott19 on January 27th, 2008 7:29 pm

    60: Too bad this isn’t a sci-fi universe of the distant future — then we could maybe figure out a way to somehow meld Reed and Morse into one guy to play right field! 🙂

  19. DMZ on January 27th, 2008 7:33 pm

    There’s no way Bedard was the best pitcher in baseball by the stats, no matter how you slice it. That’s Jake Peavy. And then Webb and a couple other guys.

    Robbed the bank.

  20. IdahoInvader on January 27th, 2008 7:35 pm


    I think they secretly did.

    But all they could come up w/ was Hiram Bochachica (sp?)

  21. BrooksRob on January 27th, 2008 7:36 pm

    Best AL Pitcher, which makes him the best pitcher.

  22. Dan Evensen on January 27th, 2008 7:37 pm

    I’m very excited for the Bedard trade. It’ll be fun to watch him and King Felix.

  23. IdahoInvader on January 27th, 2008 7:42 pm

    Why would McPhail bother denying it? I could see a “no comment” but is there any credence to what he’s claiming?

  24. eponymous coward on January 27th, 2008 7:44 pm

    The Mariners have a history of poorly developing they’re own talent save for Ken Griffey Jr. and Alex Rodriguez.

    So the idea is that since the M’s make mistakes in one area, they should pay for those mistakes by shipping off any good young players they can?

    Please show me an example of a contending team that does NOT develop their own talent. Hint: you’ll find this to be very hard to do. A productive farm system is the primary way by which teams become great.

    He’ll likely be another above average player like Torii Hunter, Shannon Stewart and Vernon Wells.

    Actually, Adam Jones projects to be something like Eric Davis (another 6’3″ right-handed batting CF from LA), who was a hell of a player. A healthy Eric Davis is a legitimate HOF contender. Also, we don’t know what Jones will do in the future… but we don’t know what Bedard will do, either. It’s a mistake to think that minor league performance doesn’t “prove” anything compared to major league performance.

    Bedard’s a very good player, but it appears the M’s gave up 6 years of a very good and inexpensive player for 2 years of a more expensive player of pretty comparable quality (not including anyone else included in the deal).

  25. manifestus on January 27th, 2008 7:46 pm

    #65 –> This was already addressed a few weeks ago. Jones isn’t really a prospect at this point; you have to stop thinking of him as the AAA player and take a good luck at him as the starting OF that he is. Furthermore, prospects and veterans flame-out at basically a similar rate; the idea that Bedard will do well is based on his current performance (projected), while Jones is similar.

    Most of those guys (Snelling, Anderson, et al) were either continuously injured or had some issues. Meche was easily better than that monster from hell we replaced him will (HoRam/Weaver) and the 1/2 of the time he was locked in, he was superb. Pineiro was pretty good before he sucked. Actually, given THAT trend and Bedard’s fragility, it’d be of greater concern that Bedard suffer some sort of statistical regression back from ace-awesomeness. Not that I want this to happen, but these are things you’d probably want to consider.

    Again, Jones for Bedard is, while not optimal given the state of the M’s right now … acceptable. Jones and the FARM for Bedard is stupid.

  26. scott19 on January 27th, 2008 7:47 pm

    70: I think rather have ole’ Boca playing right next year — at least he wouldn’t cost as much as Wilkerson, Green or Gonzo! 🙂

  27. msb on January 27th, 2008 7:59 pm

    “Our Safety Record: [0] Days Since Last Accident.”

  28. laser_brian on January 27th, 2008 8:00 pm

    I get to languish in the Tampa area. Everybody talks about out young talent for years and the best we can do is 4th place once in the last 10 years. So having all the young talent in the world, does not get you anywhere. I would kill for us to get a pitcher like Bedard.

    I do follow the american league east relegiously.

    As far as Bedard, I don’t know much about Jones, he is a dominate pitcher. I see where people have said he may not repeat his performance and he has only done it for the past year and a half. One thing I do know he became dominate ~1.5 years ago, after Kris Benson taught him a new grip on his change-up. It should be an archive article in the Baltimore sun if you want the quote from Bedard.

    Since then he has dominated everyone. I have personally seen him several times against Tampa and he is a stud. He has shut down our offense every time out and that is rare for our offense.

    If he helps you get to the playoffs, he should be extremely valiable against the skanks and the Red Soxs. He has dominated both teams.

    As far as his ERA going up, I believe the opposite will happen since he will pitching most of his games against Oakland, Ana., and Texas and less against Tampa, New York, Boston and Toronto. Which all 4 teams are top 6 offenses.

    I don’t know what trade would be fair, but you guys will be getting a great pitcher.

    Also last years injury was stomach muscle pull, which he could have pitched more but Baltimore shut him down, which actually benefits you guys now. Good luck and I hope you guy knock Boston and the skanks out of the playoffs.

  29. wrob4343 on January 27th, 2008 8:18 pm

    I started to cry….but after some research i found nothing….i didnt even see it on the 4 letter networks’ site which tries to jump every story and on they say according to the Baltimore Sun that there is no deal….could be temporary but maybe something stalled and will prevent this deal!

  30. DMZ on January 27th, 2008 8:19 pm

    As Baker notes, it’s a big deal to pull Jones off his winter league team right now and the M’s value those relationships. Further, why would Jones lie about going to Baltimore? What possible reason does he to shine Baker on?

  31. wrob4343 on January 27th, 2008 8:25 pm

    I mean everything sounds like it is in place but just 10 mins ago the story says its not….I trust ya DMZ but Im holding out that there is a glimmer of hope

  32. Typical Idiot Fan on January 27th, 2008 8:38 pm

    Let’s see:

    Standard MLB Trade Talk Protocol:

    Phone call inquiries.
    Lunch / Dinner together at GM Winter Meetings.
    Exchange banter for X amount of days or weeks.
    Get pissed and stall.
    Not cave.
    Make public comments to Associated Press that you wont cave.
    Finalize the specifics.
    Deny all rumors until physicals done.
    Hold big time press conference with lights, cameras, jerseys, and hugs.

    They’re just going through the motions. It’s done, we need to move on to “acceptance”.

  33. laser_brian on January 27th, 2008 8:42 pm

    Another thing, if you guys don’t make a playoff run and Bedard pitch’s as well for you as Baltimore, you guys can trade him at the deadline. Imagine what he be worth at the deadline for a team wanting or desperate to get in the playoffs…..

  34. ultimatedub1 on January 27th, 2008 8:52 pm

    Re: 78

    In what world does Toronto have a top offense?

  35. wrob4343 on January 27th, 2008 9:10 pm

    well idiot fan….this deal is a big deal and part of the sticking points were what the m’s were giving up. and even though the mariners are giving up a lot it was rumored to be more for a long time….and apparently jones is not flying for the physical

  36. Typical Idiot Fan on January 27th, 2008 9:30 pm

    Just call me “TIF”. And I am very aware of the situation. However, holding onto some misguided hope at this point that the deal is somehow not done or may be nixed by Peter Angelos is pathetic. It’s done. We can discuss the specifics all we want, but sitting in the “denial” stage is not productive.

    Then again, if it is not done, for whatever reason, then so be it. But I’ll believe that when it happens. I don’t see any reason for Adam Jones to lie about going to Baltimore.

  37. wrob4343 on January 27th, 2008 9:42 pm

    Oh neither do I. but as a member of the media myself (lol) id like to believe that sources do not lie to us….but then again if a source may be lying or jumping the gun to a player involved in the deal its possible.

    Im not necessarily in denial, my young years were scarred by terrible mariners moves–so im used to it. im being slightly optimistic here that maybe common sense will prevail

  38. scraps on January 28th, 2008 10:24 am

    I’m personally excited for this trade. Bedard is ace quality and HAS DONE something in this league. Adam Jones is a stellar talent and has acres of potential but he has proved nothing beyond potential.

    I wonder if we have seen this assertion made and responded to a hundred times yet in the last couple months. It’s got to be close.

    No matter how this trade turns out, teams that make this kind of trade end up on the losing end more often than not. You can throw whatever rationalizations at it you want; it remains the kind of trade typical of bad organizations. The Mariners have at best slightly improved their negligible chances of winning next year, and sacrificed better chances in the future to do it. If you can’t see that, then you are overrating the impact of a Bedard-type pitcher and underrating the impact of a Jones-type outfielder, not just in the future but right now. In a word, you’re wrong. The trade might work — stupider trades have worked — but it’s a bad trade, that can only work — that is to say, bring the Mariners a championship now — with a huge helping of wishing and luck

  39. Jeff Nye on January 28th, 2008 10:39 am

    I wonder if we have seen this assertion made and responded to a hundred times yet in the last couple months. It’s got to be close.

    I have the tally at 124 times.

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