Deal not certain, unless it is

DMZ · January 28, 2008 at 10:50 am · Filed Under Mariners 

Further speculation circulates (via Jayson Stark at ESPN) that Orioles owner Peter Angelos has not signed off on the Bedard deal yet, while the Orioles still deny that a deal is final or that Adam/George have scheduled physicals.

I’m skeptical. First, the denials from the Orioles have been almost non-nonsensical (“We are not trading for Adam Jones! You’re all crazy!” “He’s right there next to you, with an Orioles jersey draped over one arm.” “No! He’s not!”). And while I’d love to see him axe the deal, I’d be amazed if Angelos was totally in the dark all this while, for all the weeks these talks dragged on and on.

If I thought it would have made any difference, I’d have totally whooped it up as a victory (“we tricked the Orioles into thinking Jones was good! woo-hoo!”) and tried to work the buyer’s remorse.

Second, why would the two M’s we’ve heard from lie about being headed east to have their tender bits poked and prodded? And pulling Jones from his winter ball team was a pretty big deal, as Baker noted. They didn’t do that without a deal all but agreed to, and knowing Angelos’ history, I’d be shocked if Bavasi yanked Jones back to the states without knowing that the deal would go through and had Angelos’ seal of approval (or, at least, knowing that Angelos had approved the general deal — Angelos isn’t going to know who the fourth player is).

Comments

222 Responses to “Deal not certain, unless it is”

  1. Dave on January 28th, 2008 10:54 am

    There’s about a 0.01% chance this deal doesn’t happen. Everything else is non-news.

  2. hub on January 28th, 2008 10:56 am

    So about the same chance the M’s win the WS in 2008?

  3. Sports on a Schtick on January 28th, 2008 11:01 am

    Damn Orioles playing rope-a-dope. The knockout punch is coming.

  4. Carson on January 28th, 2008 11:03 am

    Yeah, the “hang on a second..” thing is only going to cause us more insanity if we cling on to hope. While, technically, the trade is not complete, there is enough to proof to suggest it is 99.9% completed, and may just be hanging on the selection of the fourth player or other small things.

    I wouldn’t set yourself up for any further dissapointment (or pleasure for some, I guess) than you’ve already endured.

  5. Tek Jansen on January 28th, 2008 11:04 am

    I bet the the O’s were extremely upset that Baker, via Venezualan reporters, broke the story and that Jones gave out so much information. Their denials do look silly.

  6. Steve T on January 28th, 2008 11:10 am

    Just don’t let Triunfel be in the deal, PLEASE.

  7. SpokaneMsFan on January 28th, 2008 11:18 am

    So any chance Bedard somehow doesn’t pass his physical? (yes I’m grasping at straws here)

  8. ColdLamper on January 28th, 2008 11:25 am

    Shades of Omar Vizquel perhaps?

  9. Evan on January 28th, 2008 11:25 am

    In BP’s chat today, Bryan Smith basically pointed readers to “Dave at SSM” for detailed analysis of the trade.

  10. Evan on January 28th, 2008 11:26 am

    USSM, of course. Oops.

  11. terry on January 28th, 2008 11:45 am

    So about the same chance the M’s win the WS in 2008?

    This move improves the Ms chances of making the playoffs (assuming Jones and Sherril are the only ones leaving the roster).

    It’s just that it doesn’t improve them as much as someone might assume the addition of a stud starter might (due to the downgrades to the outfield and pen resulting from the trade).

  12. Bodhizefa on January 28th, 2008 11:50 am

    The Times is now reporting that we have a one-year deal in place for Wilkerson with it being contingent on the Bedard deal. So that’s pretty underwhelming.

  13. joser on January 28th, 2008 11:52 am

    Yeah, it may improve their chances of getting past the Angels (if everything breaks the right way) and possibly getting through the first short series. I don’t see how it gets them through the ALCS, though, even with the Fox-induced extra days of rest. (It’s such a fantasy but, oh man, Bedard and Felix back to back twice in a series, what fun).

    I’m wondering if there’s a third shoe to drop here, though, like maybe the O’s are trying to do another deal at the same time? Or it’s a three-way with some other team and that’s what’s holding everything up? (Somebody in the previous thread suggested the Cubs as the third party, with Roberts going to them and the M’s getting one of their redundant outfielders — which would make the deal less lopsided in favor of the O’s, but given their crazy demands I have a hard time believing it).

  14. carcinogen on January 28th, 2008 11:54 am

    Dave,

    Baker was on with KJR this morning praising the deal. I hope you’ll be on Friday as somewhat of a countervailing force.

  15. jamesllegade on January 28th, 2008 11:55 am

    Crud.

    I like Bedard… have him on two keeper fantasy teams. But I think this one is going to leave a mark.

    Is there any chance of the O’s throwing in any other veteran’s on this deal? Would any likely combo take the sting out of this? If we emptied the farm system and threw in Sherrill and Lopez and the O’s shipped us Bedard AND Huff/Roberts would this be a good deal?

    Not sure what kinda defender Huff is but he has lefthanded power… Roberts would be a defensive/baserunning upgrade.

    Graspingly,

    Jamesllegade

  16. Mere Tantalisers on January 28th, 2008 11:56 am

    Is it as distressing to anyone else how badly Sherrill wants to play for Seattle? I mean, we’ve got a bunch of guys ready to step into his shoes and adequately fill them, unlike the other ‘other’ guys in the trade (I’m assuming Tillman and Butler till I hear otherwise). But something about his indy league perseverance and loyalty to the club is really touching. Also, he’s good enough to be a closer on about 10 clubs.

  17. joser on January 28th, 2008 11:57 am

    The Times is now reporting that we have a one-year deal in place for Wilkerson with it being contingent on the Bedard deal. So that’s pretty underwhelming

    Oh, joy. Now we won’t be tormented by all his dingers and running down outfield flies whenever the M’s play Texas. At least he’s a lefty, and he’s not Gonzo.

  18. Mere Tantalisers on January 28th, 2008 11:58 am

    Jamesll-
    I will eat my hat if the O’s trade away two of their franchise players in one move. Its just not their way.

  19. Logger on January 28th, 2008 11:58 am

    Realistically, if/when the deal goes through, what are the chances that the M’s do sign Bedard to an extension? No bees please.

  20. Wood Dog on January 28th, 2008 12:02 pm

    One of the rumors right now I’ve read is that it’s the extension talks that are holding this up right now. THAT is good news. If we are going to do this, we better have Bedard for more than two years.

    Oh, and no WAY we get Roberts too in this deal.

  21. argh on January 28th, 2008 12:02 pm

    As I recall, Dave posted a while back that he’d be in favor of a straight up Jones-Bedard trade if such were available. So far we think we know the rest of the trade involves Sherrill and Tillman plus one more (the mystery player). It’s close to gospel around here that bullpen help can be obtained without selling the farm or even much livestock so Sherrill’s trade is not a disaster. Tillman is a second round high school pitcher who’s what — 19 or barely 20 mpw? — and still very much a prospect and an unknown quantity. Seems like we may be moaning prematurely — depending on who that 4th player turns out to be it might be closer to Dave’s scenario than it appears at first blush. Or it could be a real disaster. I don’t think we know yet.

    Does Angelos have a reputation of coming up with last minute deal killers on these trades — for example everyone’s been talking Balantien here until it gets to Angelos and its suddenly Triunfel or the highway?

  22. Wood Dog on January 28th, 2008 12:03 pm

    Granted, I am just a prospect, so I don’t really know what I’m talking about. OH GOD! THE BEES! CALL THEM OFF!!

  23. msb on January 28th, 2008 12:05 pm

    I like how Bedard has become ‘the no. 2 pitcher in baseball’ to the pro-trade callers on KJR.

  24. jamesllegade on January 28th, 2008 12:05 pm

    Mere-

    Oh yeah… I know. But I was just asking if there was any conceivable package coming back that would take the sting out some… More a question for Dave. Yes… you do not like this trade so much… but if you could outline the best case scenerio for what we get back. How much would Huff move the neddle for you? Roberts? A Cub OF?

    Speaking of, I hadn’t thought about a three way deal with the Cubbies… you can’t have enough Felix’s on a MLB team.

  25. BrianV on January 28th, 2008 12:07 pm

    I think the prevailing opinion has been that Jones for Bedard stright up isn’t a good deal.

  26. Jeff Nye on January 28th, 2008 12:14 pm

    Jones for Bedard, straight up, would not be a great deal, but it wouldn’t be terrible. For a team that was one stud pitcher away from winning (not the 2008 Mariners) it could even be defensible.

    This deal, as I’m hearing it described most places (Jones plus Tillman plus Sherill) is quite bad, but not quite as catastrophic as I was preparing myself for (Jones/Triunfel/Tillman or Aumont/someone else).

  27. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on January 28th, 2008 12:15 pm

    I put no stock in the “deal is not happening” chatter. The statements are too well-crafted to have meaning. Jones will be gone by the end of the week. This is pre-deal buzz if I’ve ever heard it.

    That said, I get sort of giddy at the thought that Baker getting this in the spotlight from the mouth of Jones via a Venezuelan paper might make the O’s news-shy front office so angry that they call it off.

    Geoff Baker would instantly be blamed for ruining the Bedard deal. Now I like Geoff, but he’s flat wrong on the worth of Jones – he’d have bees swarming at him in droves if his comments about Jones were on here – and it makes me angry every time. To cast him as deal-killer, now that’d be funny. (Never mind the pesky fact that Jones leaving would have made news on its own, and the edition of the Venezuelan paper would have come out today(?), but don’t interfere with my daydream!)

    Sadly, none of this will come about, but it makes me smile to think about. I need to smile right now.

  28. msb on January 28th, 2008 12:21 pm

    FWIW, about an hour ago, Sherrill told Hickey that contrary to ESPN reports, he hasn’t been told to report for a physical; Hickey also says Tillman’s agent says they haven’t heard anything.

    Churchill is on KJR now

  29. jamesllegade on January 28th, 2008 12:24 pm

    What is the market for Roberts?

    If we sent them Lopez and Triunfel and some pitching ( I am all for including as many pitching prospe… er… i mean minor league pitchers) isn’t that about right?

  30. msb on January 28th, 2008 12:25 pm

    and Softy is stunned that Churchill doesn’t like Jones for Bedard.

  31. Mr. Egaas on January 28th, 2008 12:26 pm

    In a USSM post coming soon, who B-Wilks is, and where have his numbers gone since he was traded to Texas.

  32. galaxieboi on January 28th, 2008 12:41 pm

    Softy knows ZERO about baseball. Seriously. I don’t take anything he takes about the M’s or baseball in general.

    After writing that he says that if you let right field suffer in order to get Bedard, so be it. Apparently Erik will play RF too.

  33. Twins Fan on January 28th, 2008 12:44 pm

    Everyone seems so concerned with the outfield defense. Yes, Ibanez and ?(Wilkerson, Balentin, Reed) are not superstar corner OF’s, but there is still that guy Ichiro patrolling CF.

    In addition, OF defense should not be the main concern with this rotation. Only Washburn is not an “Extreme” ground ball pitcher.

    Felix 2.6 G/F
    Bedard 1.6 G/F
    Silva 1.6 G/F
    Batista 1.6 G/F
    Ramirez 1.6 G/F
    Washburn .77 G/F

    Adding a Strikeout machine like Bedard to a rotation that relies mostly on their infield defense should have M’s fans jumping for joy.

  34. jamesllegade on January 28th, 2008 12:47 pm

    And Bedard is lefthanded… we should pull the RF and start a roving infielder for his starts.

  35. Logger on January 28th, 2008 12:48 pm

    Seriously, Softy’s comments about not letting a gaping hole in RF getting in the way of the trade is ridiculous. No regard for defense.

  36. tgf on January 28th, 2008 12:54 pm

    Everyone seems so concerned with the outfield defense. Yes, Ibanez and ?(Wilkerson, Balentin, Reed) are not superstar corner OF’s, but there is still that guy Ichiro patrolling CF.

    The problem is that we saw how Ichiro plus one terrible and one merely bad outfielder worked last season. The overall outfield defense was very, very bad.

  37. galaxieboi on January 28th, 2008 12:56 pm

    Firstinning.com has Bedard listed as a Mariner and Adam as an Oriole. Funny, but not in ‘haha’ kinda way. More like a ‘dear god, no’ kinda way.

    Twins Fan, I understand looking the G/F numbers and thinking that being substandard in the OF is no big deal, but you still have to have guys out there who can make plays. Sure, if Ibanez and whomever plays RF are league average it’s not so bad. But Ibanez is awful.

    Options for RF, at this point in the offseason (and Dave or Derek please correct me I’m wrong) are either guys who can play defense like Adam or guys who can hit like Adam. Almost certainly not both.

  38. jamesllegade on January 28th, 2008 1:08 pm

    I am not ready to give up on Jeremy Reed. Dude is 26 & had a OPS over .800 in Tacoma with a boat load of doubles and tracking to a 20/20 season. Would it be unthinkable to see him click on?

    What if we’ve got Wilkerson and Reed in the corners and pushed Ibanez to DH/PT 1B? What does that do to our defenses #’s? Leaving the anemic offense projections for both OFs out of it for now… how does that pencil out?

  39. Jar on January 28th, 2008 1:17 pm

    I wonder if Jones kills it in Spring if he will have a chance at the opening day roster over someone like Wilkerson.

  40. Jar on January 28th, 2008 1:18 pm

    er… I said Jones, I ment Reed….. wtf?

  41. Celadus on January 28th, 2008 1:20 pm

    #21: I’ve seen articles which alleged that Angelos will sometimes veto deals that are basically done, but I don’t have any solid information to give you. We can hope though.

  42. Pete Livengood on January 28th, 2008 1:22 pm

    Resigning myself to the reality of the trade, and addressing the who to play RF questions….

    I wouldn’t be that surprised to see Wilkerson (or perhaps Lofton) in a platoon with Wlad or maybe Morse by June…. The defense is going to suck regardless, but offensively that platoon has a pretty good chance to replace Guillen’s production. I don’t see Reed being the LH side of such a platoon, but he probably needs to be on the bench for defensive replacement purposes in both corners, anyway.

  43. frstydogg on January 28th, 2008 1:23 pm

    “SpokaneMsFan Says:
    So any chance Bedard somehow doesn’t pass his physical? (yes I’m grasping at straws here).”

    Great, we give back a number 1 starter for a gimpy RF. That sounds wonderful. Throw your straws in the garbage.

  44. jamesllegade on January 28th, 2008 1:23 pm

    wishful thinking Jar!

    I would love if someone can just tell me what the optimal run producing/saving lineup would be (assumeing the Jones deal goes through and Wilkerson rumor is legit) for the current roster.

    Lets just pretend a strict stat-miester is running the M’s… what is the lineup (and batting order if you are really feeling it) for facing righty/lefty?

  45. msb on January 28th, 2008 1:23 pm

    #41– well, Groz just brought up Angelos’ veto of the Sele deal that lead to Aaron becoming a Mariner.

  46. gwangung on January 28th, 2008 1:23 pm

    I don’t see Reed being the LH side of such a platoon, but he probably needs to be on the bench for defensive replacement purposes in both corners, anyway.

    Perhaps these clowns will sign a proven vet to take that function.

  47. frstydogg on January 28th, 2008 1:25 pm

    “msb Says:
    I like how Bedard has become ‘the no. 2 pitcher in baseball’ to the pro-trade callers on KJR.”

    Ahh, that would be the number 2 LH pitcher according to some.

  48. Xteve X on January 28th, 2008 1:25 pm

    “The problem is that we saw how Ichiro plus one terrible and one merely bad outfielder worked last season. The overall outfield defense was very, very bad.”

    OF Depth is also nonexistent.

    Even if this move actually works — Bedard pitches well and Jones becomes a Jeremy Reed-esque footnote for the Orioles … I still don’t see the Ms being good enough to win the West in the next 2 years and am not sure how anyone else sees it. Bedard by himself is not going to add the 8-10 extra wins the Ms will need to beat the Angels … and there’s a good chance that the Ms could roll out the worst defensive outfield in the American League next year, Ichiro or not.

  49. Bodhizefa on January 28th, 2008 1:27 pm

    #42 – I know this is weird, but Wilkerson’s L/R split is actually generally reversed from the normal left-handed hitter splits. He’s usually better against lefties than righties. So I’m not sure a platoon is in his or our best interest.

  50. crazyray7391 on January 28th, 2008 1:32 pm

    [see comment guidelines]

  51. scraps on January 28th, 2008 1:36 pm

    gimpy RF

    What?

  52. joser on January 28th, 2008 1:36 pm

    I wasn’t suggesting Roberts would go to the M’s in a 3-way deal. He’d go to the cubs, one of the cubs OF would come to the M’s. And perhaps the Cubs send something to the O’s, too. It doesn’t matter, it was fantasy, and it’s all moot anyway.

    As I recall, Dave posted a while back that he’d be in favor of a straight up Jones-Bedard trade if such were available.

    In fact, what Dave said was

    Even if Adam Jones was a free agent after 2009, given their respective abilities and salaries, I wouldn’t trade Adam Jones for Erik Bedard straight up.

    It’s amazing to me that people can remember statements as being the exact opposite of what they read. I guess it explains a lot of politics in this country. And also why Dave and DMZ have to keep defending themselves against inane (and frequently contradictory) accusations.

  53. crazyray7391 on January 28th, 2008 1:39 pm

    Sorry, what I meant was, you can’t take anything that Softy says seriously. He has the worst views on the M’s of anyone at the station. I’d say if you want somebody to rationally go over this trade from KJR, listen to the Groz.

  54. Carson on January 28th, 2008 1:43 pm

    Thank goodness I don’t have a radio in my cube. I’d be getting even less work done if I had to listen to the KJR tools.

    42 – I like the idea of Reed as a bench player for defensive purposes. But if I had to pick one, I think I’d rather have Morse for offensive output, as he’d probably platoon better. Too bad we can’t like mix them together. Highly unlikely there will be room for both of them until the team is ready to go with a smaller bullpen (if they do at all).

  55. jamesllegade on January 28th, 2008 1:44 pm

    Joser-

    Yes that is amazing.

    I never said you said Roberts would go to the M’s in a 3-way deal. I am simply tyring to see if there is anyway we can lessen the pain here. If, as you speculated, Roberts goes to the Cubs and they send prospects to the O’s and a surplus OF to us; then that is a possible better outcome.

    There is also a real possibility that the M’s will continue to shop at the O’s firesale… hence my ‘What is the market for Roberts?’ question. Would Lopez, Trufinel and some minor league pitching be enough to get Roberts? And would that be a good deal?

  56. jephdood on January 28th, 2008 1:53 pm

    #55, you want to torch MORE of our minor league system? That would be another HORRIBLE deal.

  57. SpokaneMsFan on January 28th, 2008 1:54 pm

    43 frstydogg Jones is a gimpy RF? What in the world are you talking about?

  58. MikeMLT on January 28th, 2008 1:56 pm

    Please stop trying to trade Triunfel.

  59. downwarddog on January 28th, 2008 1:57 pm

    How about Ken Griffey Jr. in right field? He’s in his last year with Cincy (with an option for ’09) .. The Reds would probably pay part of his salary and take a couple of middling prospects …

  60. forte40 on January 28th, 2008 1:58 pm

    Maybe Reed can play decent corner OF. That would be a best case scenario. If this trade does happen (99% it does) then I just hope we don’t sign Louis Gonzalez, at least that is what ESPN says might happen.

  61. Mo Vaughn Is My Hero on January 28th, 2008 2:00 pm

    55. No, any deal involving Tri is a bad deal unless it was something like him for Rodriguez, Chamberlain and Hughes.

  62. msb on January 28th, 2008 2:01 pm

    Ahh, that would be the number 2 LH pitcher according to some.

    it started out that way, and rapidly devolved :)

  63. jamesllegade on January 28th, 2008 2:03 pm

    In my mind the only untouchable was Jones.

    Now that we have broken the seal on that in hopes of winning now… we better damn well win NOW.

    Or we can be the type of fans that sit and pray for their team to do badly so their fool of a GM can get fired… I know there are plenty of you but I refuse to join your ranks; mostly because i am confident the M’s ownership will hire another guy JUST LIKE THE ONE WE HAVE… except maybe WORSE.

    The future has been mortaged… Lets at least enjoy cashing the check.

  64. DKCecil on January 28th, 2008 2:11 pm

    It’s kind of hard to force yourself to like something you know will not pan out and will lead to more heartbreak in the future. I won’t cash that check.

  65. jamesllegade on January 28th, 2008 2:15 pm

    60 – that is just silly.

    Dude is 19.

  66. Mo Vaughn Is My Hero on January 28th, 2008 2:21 pm

    60. 17 actually, and he hit .296 in his first year of professional baseball.

  67. bakomariner on January 28th, 2008 2:24 pm

    my terrible day of meetings at work just got worse…haven’t been on a computer all weekend and i get to my room today to read all this? literally teary eyed and queezy…i’d rather be bored to death in meetings…what a way to start the week…PLEASE let Angelos veto this thing…

  68. Mo Vaughn Is My Hero on January 28th, 2008 2:29 pm

    Heh, meant to respond to 64.

  69. AK4Sea on January 28th, 2008 2:47 pm

    I used to be an Expos fan – back when there were Expos to be fans of – and one of my favorite players was Brad Wilkerson.

    Sometimes no amount of evidence can break an irrational love for a baseball player. So you go right ahead and write up an essay on Wilkerson, and how he has old player’s skills, and how he’s fragile, and I will know (in my heart of hearts) that you’re right.

    But I won’t care.

    GoBrad ’08!

  70. Nayners on January 28th, 2008 3:13 pm

    From ESPN. “Two baseball sources who have spoken to the Mariners say Seattle has been in contact with (Luis)Gonzalez’s agent, Greg Clifton, and has indicated that if the Bedard trade happens, the Mariners are “very interested” in Gonzalez.”

    This is what I REALLY didn’t want to hear. Another over-the-hill, gritty veteran to energize the M’s. When will they learn? Surely there is someone better/cheaper.

    I will still find myself rooting for the M’s furiously, come start of the season. Goodbye and good luck Adam.

  71. edgar for mayor on January 28th, 2008 3:22 pm

    78- Actually the M’s have a contingent one year offer out to Wilkerson already.

  72. ThePopeofChilitown on January 28th, 2008 3:27 pm

    Well, why get Gonzo while Carl Everett is still out there? In the latest Mariner Mailbag Jim Street mentions the White Sox and Angels being interested.

    If only the universe was that fair…

  73. IdahoInvader on January 28th, 2008 3:47 pm

    Gonzo? (GASP)

    It would seem Wilkerson is the lesser of the two evils…sigh

  74. DKCecil on January 28th, 2008 3:52 pm

    Well, Steve Phillips just said the M’s are the team to beat in the AL West if they get Bedard. That changes things entirely!

  75. Gregor on January 28th, 2008 3:52 pm

    Rosenthal now says that the trade is “on hold — and possibly off”.

  76. Wood Dog on January 28th, 2008 3:53 pm

    20 minutes ago Ken Rosenthal reported that the deal is on hold “or possibly off” because Angelos has learned that Bedard might consider signing a long term deal with the O’s, if it extended him at least 5 years. I LOVE insane owners. They keep this process very interesting.

  77. Joof on January 28th, 2008 3:55 pm

    Well, supposedly Jones is still in Venezuela, and said nothing about being traded to the Press. According to Geoff Baker, he was supposed to leave this morning for Baltimore.

    http://www.komoradio.com/marinersradio/shannon/14571602.html

  78. JMHawkins on January 28th, 2008 3:58 pm

    Good grief. Gonzo and Putz on the same team? The practical jokes would be out of control.

  79. DMZ on January 28th, 2008 4:02 pm

    If Steve Phillips knew half as much about building a team as he pretends he knows, every finger on his hand would have a World Series ring.

  80. frstydogg on January 28th, 2008 4:05 pm

    “SpokaneMsFan Says:
    43 frstydogg Jones is a gimpy RF? What in the world are you talking about?”

    57..Wow, I love density. It’s called sarcasm. If you read (I’m assuming you can), you’ll see that post #7 was hoping for AJ to fail his physical. Hence the gimpyness. Lord I can’t believe I have to explain this…

  81. shortbus on January 28th, 2008 4:07 pm

    Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please…

    The reasons for Angelos’ hesitation are unclear. However, Angelos’ first choice is to sign Bedard to a contract extension, according to one source. The owner was under the impression that Bedard was unwilling to consider such a deal, the source says, but recently learned that the pitcher would entertain an offer if the Orioles were willing to extend him at least five years.

  82. galaxieboi on January 28th, 2008 4:08 pm

    I *heart* Peter Angelos sometimes.

  83. DKCecil on January 28th, 2008 4:08 pm

    Well, #7 was hoping for Bedard to fail his physical. Bedard’s name is pretty clearly in that post and Adam’s is not. So yeah, you’re having a hard time explaining something incorrect. Most people would.

  84. huhwhat on January 28th, 2008 4:10 pm

    79 – this and the Fact Jones never left Venezuala according to Drayer’s blog, is keeping me hopes up that this deals off.

  85. Jay R. on January 28th, 2008 4:10 pm

    Get yer checkbook out, Pete! Save Bavasi from himself.

  86. frstydogg on January 28th, 2008 4:10 pm

    “crazyray7391 Says:
    Sorry, what I meant was, you can’t take anything that Softy says seriously. He has the worst views on the M’s of anyone at the station. I’d say if you want somebody to rationally go over this trade from KJR, listen to the Groz.”

    53…Why, because the Groz thinks like you? The Groz, who says we can’t trade our starting RF even though AJ hasn’t started a game for the Mariners in RF? Hell, he hasn’t even won the job yet. There’s a radio hack to follow. The Groz. His opinions are always so dead on. Lol.

  87. AK4Sea on January 28th, 2008 4:12 pm

    Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that this trade doesn’t go through. Does that mean that the casual Mariners fan will resent Adam Jones because he wasn’t traded for Erik Bedard? Stranger things have happened.

  88. John in L.A. on January 28th, 2008 4:14 pm

    frstydogg -

    “57..Wow, I love density. It’s called sarcasm. If you read (I’m assuming you can), you’ll see that post #7 was hoping for AJ to fail his physical. Hence the gimpyness. Lord I can’t believe I have to explain this…”

    Wow, those are powerfully snide words for someone who has it completely backwards.

    Talk about putting your foot in your mouth.

    “If you read (I’m assuming you can)…”

    How’s that taste?

    Density indeed.

  89. matthew on January 28th, 2008 4:15 pm

    Maybe there’s an M’s fan in Baltimore that can cause Jones to not pass his physical. What’s Tonya Harding’s cohorts doing these days?

  90. frstydogg on January 28th, 2008 4:15 pm

    81…Ouch, that one hurts. I mock too quickly. thx

  91. John in L.A. on January 28th, 2008 4:17 pm

    “Everyone seems so concerned with the outfield defense. Yes, Ibanez and ?(Wilkerson, Balentin, Reed) are not superstar corner OF’s, but there is still that guy Ichiro patrolling CF.”

    ‘Ibanez is not a superstar (defensive) outfielder’ is a taking understatement to a bit of an extreme.

  92. edgar for mayor on January 28th, 2008 4:19 pm

    Who would want Jones to fail his physical…that would be bad for us all well. What you want is for Bedard to fail his physical.

  93. galaxieboi on January 28th, 2008 4:20 pm

    Opinions aren’t so supposed to be dead on, that’s why they’re opinions. Groz at least has some informed opinions whereas Softy mearly talks out of his a** about baseball. He’s a Husky honk and that’s it. Hell, I know more about Husky baseball than he ever will. It’s not like Groz is super enlightened, but at least it seems like he tries to learn. He does have Dave on once in awhile.

  94. jlc on January 28th, 2008 4:21 pm

    Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that this trade doesn’t go through. Does that mean that the casual Mariners fan will resent Adam Jones because he wasn’t traded for Erik Bedard? Stranger things have happened.

    I would say the definition of a casual fan is not to be particularly caring about trades at this time of year, especially if they involve a nonhousehold Mariner name (and even possibly a nonhousehold Oriole name, unless they keep up on the AL East or pitchers).

  95. the Kingdome Kid on January 28th, 2008 4:23 pm

    I don’t think that Ibanez is terrible in Left. Granted we could do better, but the guy has a decent arm and tries hard. You want bad? Remember Glenallen Hill? That is bad. Raul actually makes decent plays once in a while.

    Thing is, Ibanez may end up in Right Field depending on who we get to join the team. You need more speed in left than right. Better arm is needed for right. Less speed. Seems RF would be best fit for him. Whatever, I hope this is the challenge. Much easier to find corner outfielder than to find stud starting LHP.

    Normally I’d be worried Bavasi is the one pulling this string. But Angelos is a bigger baseball idiot than Bavasi, so I like our chances of being on the better side of this one.

  96. Jeff Nye on January 28th, 2008 4:27 pm

    Ibanez is terrible in left. Nearly historically so.

  97. jlc on January 28th, 2008 4:28 pm

    I personally like players that try hard, and some of them are among my favorites. But that doesn’t enter into whether they’re “good” players or not. Just because you can pick a name out of the past that’s bad doesn’t make Raul any better. I appreciate the fact that he tried, but watching him run made my legs hurt, it was so difficult. Watching him not get to balls that a LF should get to was beyond annoying.

  98. giuseppe on January 28th, 2008 4:29 pm

    So, I’m not even gonna get into Ibanez not being terrible in left statement, but you’re ready to throw out all the relevant information about this trade and judge it solely on the fact that you think one GM is stupider than another?

    OK.

  99. Evan on January 28th, 2008 4:31 pm

    I’ve always had an irrational and baseless dislike for the Orioles. I don’t know why (honestly, it might be the colour scheme), but they’ve always been the team I least want to do well.

    As such, I love Angelos. He might be my favourite owner.

  100. Ralph_Malph on January 28th, 2008 4:32 pm

    Wow…the standard of competence now is “tries hard and makes a decent play once in a while.”

    Now starting in LF…Stuart Smalley. Smalley, left field. He’s good enough, he’s fast enough, and doggone it, people like him.

  101. giuseppe on January 28th, 2008 4:36 pm

    Ralph is that yet another nickname for Willie Bloomquist in the works? It sounds more like him than Raul.

  102. edgar for mayor on January 28th, 2008 4:39 pm

    106 – You realize (no offense) but Angelos is a horrible owner. Why would you hire a GM do do a job…and then Micromanage him *cough, cough* LINCOLN *cough, cough*

    He is bad.

  103. jlc on January 28th, 2008 4:39 pm

    Evan, I’m glad to hear there’s someone else with the irrational attitude toward the Orioles. For me, I’m pretty sure it’s the orange. Having AJ play for them is the only possible reason I would ever pay attention to them.

  104. SpokaneMsFan on January 28th, 2008 4:40 pm

    81 thx for the back up DKC, and 88 Frsty I was about to post something really snarky before I saw your post but I did I so I’ll just say we all make mistakes, and I’m keeping my straws for now.

  105. GLS on January 28th, 2008 4:41 pm

    God I hope Rosenthal has his facts right. You go Peter Angelos!!

  106. edgar for mayor on January 28th, 2008 4:44 pm

    112- Unfortunatley Rosenthal is olmost never right :( . Here’s to hoping for a change.

  107. shortbus on January 28th, 2008 4:45 pm

    Ibanez is a tricky player to read from a fan’s perspective IMO. There are a couple of things he does as well as any outfielder in the majors such as get good jumps and take good routes to the ball. He also has a good glove and will make “spectacular” catches at times with a slide or a leap.

    Where he’s terrible is really only in one area, from what I have seen: his range. He is just too slow to play LF at Safeco effectively. To realize this you need to start counting every time the ball lands ten feet in front of him, or just out of reach and then rolls to the wall for a double or worse. Say to yourself “Jones makes that an out” and look at how the inning would be different and you’ll realize why, statistically, he’s one of the worst left fielders in the league.

  108. IHaveALittleProject on January 28th, 2008 4:51 pm

    107 – Ibanez gets absolutely AWFUL jumps on the ball. I swear, half the time he doesn’t start lumbering until the ball is on the way down. I’ve caught myself shouting at Safeco from the right field lower reserved seats “IN! IN!” at Raul as if I were back in high school helping out a not-so-good teammate.

  109. argh on January 28th, 2008 4:54 pm

    Re: Joser’s — I stand chastened and chagrined at misremembering Dave’s comment on a one-up Jones-Bedard trade. Possibly it was Santana — or possibly my disintegrating brain manufactured it all. Anyway, apologies for the misstatement.

  110. Sports on a Schtick on January 28th, 2008 5:02 pm

    Ibanez was -20 runs in left last season. Toss aside any notions of range, jumps, leaps or throws: he is a horrible outfielder.

    Guillen was -17 runs. Jones would have been a huge upgrade in right. A guy like Wilkerson, I’m guessing, would be slightly better in the field than Jose.

  111. Ralph_Malph on January 28th, 2008 5:08 pm

    Let a guy make an occasional diving/sliding catch and fans will think he’s a great outfielder — all facts to the contrary notwithstanding. It works for Raul, it worked for Reed.

    Maybe if Sexson made an occasional diving catch at 1B we’d all think he was great there.

  112. philosofool on January 28th, 2008 5:11 pm
  113. Steve T on January 28th, 2008 5:12 pm

    “start counting every time the ball lands ten feet in front of him”

    If the ball’s landing ten feet away from him, he’s not getting a good jump. Good outfielders are right there where they need to be, slow or fast. What matters is catching balls, and Ibanez is spectacularly horrible at it. This is going to hurt Bedard, remember.

  114. joser on January 28th, 2008 5:16 pm

    Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that this trade doesn’t go through. Does that mean that the casual Mariners fan will resent Adam Jones because he wasn’t traded for Erik Bedard? Stranger things have happened.

    Maybe not casual fans, but if Jones ends up staying with the M’s there’s definitely going to be a contingent — the pro-Bedard people over at the Times blogs, etc — that will scream bloody murder and “I told you so” if he doesn’t come out of ST hitting .330 and end the year with 40 HRs, since that’s what they’ll claim would be the “equivalent” to Bedard. (And if the deal goes through, and he doesn’t hit like that for the O’s, they’ll be saying the same thing). Sure, it’s irrational, but rational evaluation and comparison of talent hasn’t been a feature of their arguments so far and I don’t expect that to change.

  115. jlc on January 28th, 2008 5:16 pm

    Maybe if Sexson made an occasional diving catch at 1B we’d all think he was great there.

    But he makes those stretched out catches, which is why so many casual fans think he’s an All Star first baseman and anyone shorter would instantly doom the team to dozens of errors from the rest of the infield.

    Just noticed the new phrase on the enter bar. I feel so much better with the pressure off about saying something useful. ;)

  116. JMHawkins on January 28th, 2008 5:17 pm

    79 – this and the Fact Jones never left Venezuala according to Drayer’s blog, is keeping me hopes up that this deals off.

    This whole shebang is starting to seem like Schrodinger’s Cat. All possible things have happened, until we open the box and find out whether hope is dead or alive. But if the worst happens and the deal does go through, take solace in the fact that in some parallel dimension, Adam Jones will be leading the M’s in doubles while Cha-Seung Baek goes 12-8 as our #5 starter.

  117. msb on January 28th, 2008 5:51 pm

    I believe that Groz and the rest of us who consider that Adam Jones is our starting right fielder do so because of the games he did start there, and the fact that Bavasi & Mac refer to him as the right fielder.

    listening to KJR while waiting around to hear Kukjian (who lives outside Baltimore, and has followed Angelos for years) show up, I have to say that I am fascinated that someone who makes his living talking about sports locally won’t bother to look around and see that you should evaluate a pitcher on something other wins and ERA, and thinks that comparing callers anguish over a potential trade of Adam Jones to the hoohah over trading Jose Cruz makes sense.

    once Kurkjian came on, he said he thinks it looks like it will happen, but does warn us that Angelos can turn anything down, for no good reason. From the Seattle point of view, ‘a GM’ told Timmy that ‘a window is open in the AL West’, so the Ms are going for it, and that with money coming off the books, they might be able to re-sign Bedard. One of the Orioles guys told Tim that Baltimore’s concern with re-signing him is whether he will stay healthy long-term, and that what keeps him from being ‘an elite pitcher’.

  118. Taylor H on January 28th, 2008 5:57 pm

    On KJR a few minutes ago, the Groz was mentioning that its possible AJ could end up hitting .200 next year by June and be sent back to the minors, in which case M’s fans would feel ok if the deal went through. It’s possible Jones could hit .200 with 10 homers while Bedard goes 18-6 with 220 K’s, but its also quite possible Jones hits .280 with 28 home runs while Bedard goes 12-9 with a 4.00+ ERA. Whatever happens, Bill Bavasi definately loses if the M’s don’t qualify for the playoffs. Another late season or even total collapse, and McLaren and Bavasi are both out, mark my words.

  119. OppositeField on January 28th, 2008 6:01 pm

    How is Bedard pronounced, anyway? Bed-urd, or Buh-dard? I’ve seen his name forever, but never needed to bring it up in conversation until now.

  120. Taylor H on January 28th, 2008 6:01 pm

    msb – i heard the Jose Cruz Jr comparison too, and i don’t think its a fair comparison. Also, the Angels will be too good for the M’s to take the division, so we can hope either the Yanks or the Sox are worse than us next year ( in hopes of getting the wild card).

  121. DMZ on January 28th, 2008 6:07 pm

    Ibanez is a tricky player to read from a fan’s perspective IMO. There are a couple of things he does as well as any outfielder in the majors such as get good jumps and take good routes to the ball. He also has a good glove and will make “spectacular” catches at times with a slide or a leap.

    I’m sorry, but this is absolutely not true. Ibanez gets horrible jumps on the ball. Just awful. And there’s a reason he was mocked for taking routes like he was being chased by angry bees.

    It’s a huge part of why his range is so awful.

  122. Gilgameche on January 28th, 2008 6:07 pm

    Baker now reporting … that everyone is backtracking. He is also setting up Jones as the fall guy.

  123. IdahoInvader on January 28th, 2008 6:08 pm

    Ibanez has virtually the same instincts as Helen Keller out there some days

  124. Jeff Nye on January 28th, 2008 6:11 pm
  125. OppositeField on January 28th, 2008 6:12 pm

    From Baker’s update:

    “Let’s look at what Adam Jones, who let the cat out of his equipment bag about the deal in Venezuela on Sunday, is now telling people, as per KOMO 1000 radio reporter Shannon Drayer’s blog.

    “He says that he said nothing about being traded to the Venezuelan press,” Drayer writes, relaying details of an email conversation with Jones. “Something may have been lost in translation somewhere.”

    Ah yes, if all else fails and you’ve dug yourself a gigantic hole, just cover it up by shovelling a bunch of manure into it and blaming the Spanish-speaking reporter from the South American country.”

  126. DMZ on January 28th, 2008 6:21 pm

    Didn’t Baker actually talk to Jones directly though after the M’s told him they had no comment?

  127. OppositeField on January 28th, 2008 6:23 pm

    That was my understanding as well. What gives?

  128. marinerfaninvenice on January 28th, 2008 6:28 pm

    part of the conundrum with Bedard is that you don’t *really* want to sign him to a huge extension right now due to his injury history (see Hampton, Mike or Park, Chan Ho) but the idea of losing him to Free Agency if he is healthy is a definite concern. I wonder if he’d be open to a 1-year extension with aggressive mutual or club options for `10 and `11. Either way, I do think that the M’s would have an above-average chance of re-signing him after 09 because a) they’ll have the money, and b) pitching in Safeco in the AL West is better for one’s stats than pitching for many of the big-money teams.

  129. marinerfaninvenice on January 28th, 2008 6:33 pm

    125 – you know you can’t trust those muckracking jouranlists at Diario Panorama!

  130. coffee on January 28th, 2008 6:34 pm

    From what Baker put in his blog, it looks like he only talked to the reporter, not Jones himself.

    “Some of you are asking why you can’t find the quotes from Jones after scouring the internet looking for the original source in Venezuela. That one’s simple. I told you, we had a relationship with the newspaper, Diario Panorama, and its reporter. He was generous enough to provide us with all the quotes, because he realizes how big the news is for fans back here in Seattle.”

    I’ve got a headache from all this.

  131. AK4Sea on January 28th, 2008 6:40 pm

    I wonder if what Jones said was supposed to be ‘off the record.’ I’m not exactly thrilled with the emotional response Baker has put up, but I’d really like to know if the Venezuela reporter broke a story he wasn’t supposed to.

    And I’d really like to know how Baker got in touch with said reporter.

    If so, he just kissed his career in sports journalism goodbye. No baseball players will talk with him.

    And now that Adam Jones is the “bad guy” in all of this, I’m starting to feel good about my ‘Adam Jones will be hated for ruining the Bedard trade’ prediction. Well, actually, I’m feeling bad about it. But you know what I mean.

  132. Sports on a Schtick on January 28th, 2008 6:43 pm

    Jones is trying to sabotage the deal? I like this guy even more, Mariner or Oriole.

  133. AK4Sea on January 28th, 2008 6:43 pm

    By ‘he just kissed his career in sports journalism goodbye,’ I mean the Venezuelan reporter. The cynic in me thinks that Jones gave him some honest information that he wasn’t supposed to print, and he gave it to Baker.

  134. thr33niL on January 28th, 2008 6:44 pm

    Not sure if this has been discussed yet but people over at OriolesHangout.com are saying they have confirmation that Angelos was pissed about the leak and vetoed the deal. They are saying that Bavasi and MacPhail had a deal and Angelos cut it down.

    If true, did the old senile codger just save Seattle from themselves?

  135. gwangung on January 28th, 2008 6:45 pm

    And now that Adam Jones is the “bad guy” in all of this, I’m starting to feel good about my ‘Adam Jones will be hated for ruining the Bedard trade’ prediction.

    That sounds kinda irrational. Isn’t it another case of Angelos getting cold feet again, if it doesn’t go through?

    (Of course, I’m getting my entertainment value from this, not by reading the news, but by watching bloggers react to it (or the lack thereof)).

  136. Tek Jansen on January 28th, 2008 6:51 pm

    Seattle might not be baseball heaven, but it is better than Baltimore. Maybe Jones was smart enough to intentionally scuttle the deal and remain in Seattle. Good for him. Good for Sherrill.

  137. jamesllegade on January 28th, 2008 6:54 pm

    Just a note on KJR… I have talked to some of those guys (Groz/Gas/Softy) and questioned them about their ‘closely’ held sports beliefs… finally Gas fessed and said that they sign up for viewpoints in station meetings in order to build conflict. Gas has obviously pulled the “Go get a #1 starter” straw and Groz the “You can’t trade the future” straw.

  138. smb on January 28th, 2008 7:13 pm

    From the “dicsussion” following the last espn.com article:

    “i think morrow should go back to the Pen and take george’s spot. Morrow has proved he can pitch at the proffesional level, i think he just needs this year to really get into a grove.”

    Priceless. Thank Jeebus for USSM.

  139. scraps on January 28th, 2008 7:14 pm

    Geoff Baker has just moved himself into the slimeball category so far as I’m concerned. Sliming Jones like that is pathetic.

  140. IdahoInvader on January 28th, 2008 7:15 pm

    When you have such a prized gem like HoRam, do you really need Bedard? Clearly Bavasi is a genius either way. (Eyes rolling)

  141. Steve T on January 28th, 2008 7:18 pm

    @119, according to Wikipedia, it’s spelled Bédard, with an accent on the first syllable, and pronounced BAY-dar (final d is silent). He’s French-Canadian.

  142. OppositeField on January 28th, 2008 7:29 pm

    thanks Steve T! never would have guessed that one.

    I agree that Baker is making himself look like a clown by lashing out at everyone involved in this deal. He’s a professional journalist, he should know better than anybody that the burden of ensuring his sources are accurate is solely on him, especially if he is trying to break a story like this before anybody else. Blaming four different parties with four very different interests for coming out with four different accounts should not come as a surprise to this guy. Above all else, don’t drag Jones through the mud. The kid has spent his formative years being pulled in a hundred different directions, and when he finally gets some concrete news about his future as a major league baseball player, of course he is going to be jubilant and ready to spill the beans, ESPECIALLY when he isn’t even talking to a member of the American press. The kid was finally getting his shot. How do you keep that bottled up?

  143. Dave on January 28th, 2008 7:32 pm

    Uhh, Baker isn’t dragging Jones through the mud. He’s the only one here telling the truth.

    The M’s are lying. The M’s are telling Adam Jones to lie. The Orioles are lying. Baker’s being honest. And you’re pissed at him?

    You all are weird.

  144. yofarbs on January 28th, 2008 7:35 pm

    And Baker’s willingness to tell the truth, while angering and embarrasing the M’s and maybe Jones, is crucial for all of us trying to find out what is really happening.

  145. Sports on a Schtick on January 28th, 2008 7:38 pm

    I wish Baker was this critical of McLaren for bringing in Rick White for two ill-fated “relief” outings when Putz was available…

  146. BrianV on January 28th, 2008 7:40 pm

    I have no problem with Baker here. He reported what another reporter reported. Now he’s explaining the situation.

    Jones seems to be caught here, maybe speaking up when he shouldn’t have.

    I, for one, hope it completely screws up the trade.

  147. terry on January 28th, 2008 7:40 pm

    Baker now reporting … that everyone is backtracking. He is also setting up Jones as the fall guy.

    Wow. Baker lets himself get used like a tool and it’s everyone else’s fault…

    Go figure.

  148. OppositeField on January 28th, 2008 7:41 pm

    I don’t disagree that everyone “lied” to Baker. I just think his reaction is laughable coming from a journalist, even if he is putting his blogger hat on for this.

    Baker had two ways of handling this, and he chose an emotional, vindictive tone. It’s a major deal, there are multiple parties with major interests at stake. I don’t understand why he’s surprised that this happened, and I don’t understand why he thinks it’s appropriate to lash out at these people.

  149. Sports on a Schtick on January 28th, 2008 7:44 pm

    Baker should be critical of the M’s, but that doesn’t happen enough.

  150. Dave on January 28th, 2008 7:46 pm

    Baker’s upset because the Mariners and Orioles both think it’s totally cool to lie about what Adam Jones told the reporter in Venezuela and blame it on language differences.

    He’s not angry that he’s being lied to. He’s used to that – he’s angry that the organizations are willing to lie about a fellow journalist’s integrity in order to preserve this ridiculous charade they’re trying to pull of.

  151. bubblegumcrisis on January 28th, 2008 7:51 pm

    So is this a done deal or not?

  152. IdahoInvader on January 28th, 2008 7:55 pm

    145

    I won’t soon forget or forgive McLaren for that completely dumbarse move either

  153. tendervittles on January 28th, 2008 8:01 pm

    I’m not sure calling AJ a “clown” was the right thing to say. Puppet seems to be a little more fitting. I guess when you’ve got a circus analogy to flesh out you gotta do what you gotta do.

  154. Steve T on January 28th, 2008 8:03 pm

    Baker’s right: the tape proves that Jones really did say those things to the Venezuelan reporter. He said them IN ENGLISH, so nothing got lost in translation. The M’s are trying to cover their asses, because it looks like Jones’s mouth may have scotched the deal (hey, no offense, I’m a quarter Scottish).

    Which, in turn, suggests that someone at the MARINERS talked too much, while telling Jones why he was headed back to the US. The Mariners are the missteppers here, and the ass-coverers. They’re trying to blame the Venezuelan journalist, who is guilty of nothing more than doing his job — asking Adam Jones why he was packing his bag.

    I’ll bet Bavasi is having a stroke over it; he seems like the kind of guy you don’t want to be around when things go haywire.

    The deal is officially “on hold for 48 hours” which probably means until Angelos gets done burning down the Orioles offices with everyone inside.

  155. cgmonk on January 28th, 2008 8:06 pm

    If this deal is nixed as an indirect result of Jones being sent to Winter ball, wouldn’t that be something?

  156. Lauren, token chick on January 28th, 2008 8:06 pm

    Worst Possible Scenario: Mariners are mad at Jones for scuttling the deal and get rid of him anyway, for something worse.

  157. Lauren, token chick on January 28th, 2008 8:07 pm

    Hrmph. The exciting bee button is too long to read in Safari, at least my decrepit version.

  158. wayupwaydown on January 28th, 2008 8:11 pm

    In my perspective, Jones telling the reporter what was going on was really the M’s fault.

    Bavasi or whoever told him what was happening should have told him not to speak to reporters, or given him instructions on what to say when asked why he was leaving the team during their playoffs.

    It sounds to me that the M’s failed to tell him to keep in under wraps. They had to know that his leaving a playoff series would generate questions. If they didn’t want him to discuss it, they should have made sure he didn’t.

    So again, Bavasi is the ultimate guy to blame or to cheer, depending on your perspective of the deal merits, if this deal blows up because of it.

  159. thr33niL on January 28th, 2008 8:11 pm

    He inferred to Jones being a clown in the “circus” of recent events because he was quoted ON TAPE and now he is denying he said it. That sounds pretty silly to me.

    “Yes officer that is my voice on tape saying I robbed the bank.. But I didn’t say it.”

  160. gwangung on January 28th, 2008 8:14 pm

    AH. He’s saying that the Ms are making Jones look like a clown.

  161. marinerfaninvenice on January 28th, 2008 8:22 pm

    The problem here is that the M’s screwed up by giving too much information to a 21-year old kid who’s going through a media circus for the first time in his career — it’s got to be overwhelming. The result of the problem is that the deal will still get done, but we’ll probably have to give more now to placate Angelos’ ego — so now’s the time to get back to more dire predictions for who we’ll be shipping to Baltimore.

    I’ve been in favor of the deal, but the organizational ineptitude of the M’s FO makes it harder to have faith in anything they do.

    I’m trying to think of a good sporting analogy for watching Angelos vs. Bavasi but can’t think of anything quite so pathetic and painful. Watching two rednecks fight over their pregnant transvestite ex-girlfriend on Springer is the only comparison that comes to mind — you watch it because it’s painful and awkward and mildly entertaining, but at the end of the day the joke is on them. Only in this case, we as M’s fans are all part of the joke.

  162. msb on January 28th, 2008 8:25 pm

    Kurkjian was asked about the conflicting story, and he said, essentially, that it wouldn’t be the first time a team told a player to lie…

  163. joser on January 28th, 2008 8:25 pm

    Worst Possible Scenario: Mariners are mad at Jones for scuttling the deal and get rid of him anyway, for something worse.

    Or nothing at all, à la Carlos Guillen.

    I still don’t get what the O’s are upset about. How is the deal damaged if people know about it a day early? What difference does it make that word leaked out? Word always leaks out. It’s not like these are nuclear arms reduction talks or something. Is it just Angelos is such a control freak he doesn’t want anyone to talk about it until after he talks about it?

    He inferred to Jones being a clown in the “circus” of recent events
    Implied. He implied, we inferred. Transmit, receive.

  164. msb on January 28th, 2008 8:28 pm

    Is it just Angelos is such a control freak he doesn’t want anyone to talk about it until after he talks about it?

    probably.

    hey! there’s a ballgame on FSN! The M’s are up 1-0 in the 3rd.

  165. terry on January 28th, 2008 8:37 pm

    Baker’s upset because the Mariners and Orioles both think it’s totally cool to lie about what Adam Jones told the reporter in Venezuela and blame it on language differences.

    He’s not angry that he’s being lied to. He’s used to that – he’s angry that the organizations are willing to lie about a fellow journalist’s integrity in order to preserve this ridiculous charade they’re trying to pull of.

    This whole situation would’ve played out in a much more aesthetically pleasing manner back in the day when news cycles were longer than the time it takes to refresh a browser…

  166. terry on January 28th, 2008 8:40 pm

    If this deal gets nixed because Jones answered a reporter’s question, then really I’m not sure how Angelos could ever be taken seriously….

  167. msb on January 28th, 2008 8:41 pm

    it is kinda entertaining to see reporters on both sides of the continent throw up their hands, and shake their heads.

  168. Carson on January 28th, 2008 8:45 pm

    msb – Not just any game. Felix’s one hitter!

  169. gwangung on January 28th, 2008 8:47 pm

    Heh. So the Ms office expected that they were dealing with an adult in Baltimore…

  170. Carson on January 28th, 2008 8:48 pm

    Can you imagine how much we’ll laugh about this in a few years if it gets nixed?

    Dave – Have the odds increased to 0.02% yet?

  171. OppositeField on January 28th, 2008 8:51 pm

    If nothing else, the last few days sure have been packed full of drama. Though the prospect…I mean, the thought of losing Jones has been killing me, all of this action has at least given me a reason to get passionate about baseball in late January. Plus it has made the dead week before the Super Bowl a bit more interesting.

    Cheers to Dave and DMZ for providing a support group during these trying times, and cheers to all the readers who come share their (considered, respectful) perspective.

  172. Tek Jansen on January 28th, 2008 8:55 pm

    Is it really anyone’s fault? How could the M’s have put AJ on a flight to Baltimore and not tell him why? Or should they have inducted him into their secret society of Free Masons with strict codes of confidentiality. AJ, being a 22 year old kid was asked a question, gave an answer, and Baker was able to break a story via some good connections.

    If Baltimore wants AJ, they will take him for the deal offered. If not, I will be a happy M’s fan, because I cannot imagine Bavasi giving more to the O’s because AJ violated some stupid code of silence.

  173. Karen on January 28th, 2008 9:07 pm

    Steve T, I just about fell over laughing at your #154 “The deal is officially “on hold for 48 hours” which probably means until Angelos gets done burning down the Orioles offices with everyone inside.”

    Either that, or…. The denizens over at Orioles Hangout have talked about staging a protest/walk-out, and seem ready to burn PGA (the acronym for Angelos) at the stake for interfering. Even with the “insiders” they refer to, they apparently haven’t heard anything about Angelos possibly giving in to a juicy 5 year extension to keep Bedard. If that happens they probably WILL use those pitchforks and torches they mentioned.

  174. gwangung on January 28th, 2008 9:09 pm

    Is it really anyone’s fault? How could the M’s have put AJ on a flight to Baltimore and not tell him why? Or should they have inducted him into their secret society of Free Masons with strict codes of confidentiality. AJ, being a 22 year old kid was asked a question, gave an answer, and Baker was able to break a story via some good connections.

    Can’t blame the Ms front office for telling Jones. Probably thought the deal was in the bag, and the talks were something less than a secret.

    AJ probably wasn’t told not to say anything, because the Ms didn’t think it mattered.

    And Angelos is either a control freak or using this as a pretext to break the deal.

  175. fitz1425 on January 28th, 2008 9:14 pm

    Why is everyone assuming that reporters needed Jones to tell them/him where he was going and why. This story is big news. It’s not like everyone doesn’t already know what’s going on. Jones probably just thought he was stating the obvious.

  176. Carson on January 28th, 2008 9:47 pm

    fitz1425 – Jones claims he spoke to Bavasi. That is more than stating the obvious.

    And, I don’t see why he would make that up.

  177. 300ZXNA on January 28th, 2008 9:55 pm

    156: No the worst possible scenario, is that the O’s nix the deal, and Bavasi in a moment of panic and groveling says “please don’t kill the deal, I’ll throw in Triunfel!!”. THAT would be worst case scenario. Though unfortunately, even AJ does remain with us, I have a feeling that we sign Gonzalez or Wilkerson due to “veteranness” and have AJ ride the pine this year as punishment. Now how hard would THAT be to take.

  178. Steve T on January 28th, 2008 10:19 pm

    I think AJ has three days to start hitting .300, and there had better be homers in two of them, or else the folks around here (Seattle, not USSM) are going to start howling for his head. Shame.

  179. galaxieboi on January 28th, 2008 10:22 pm

    Kudos to whomever for the ussmariner server not crashing the last day or so. I thought for sure when this news went down that’d be it.

  180. JMHawkins on January 28th, 2008 11:32 pm

    This team can’t even not make a trade without looking incompetent.

  181. C-Dub on January 28th, 2008 11:39 pm

    Ugh, it is so hard to be a M’s fan. We’re essentially giving up much of our future just for one guy. Sure, he’s a top of the rotation guy, but he won’t get us past the Angels next year. I really hope Wlad can become a good player in the bigs so we can forget about this deal someday. We might contend(if we make this trade) for about three years. Then its back to the cellar. Bavasi is a moron.

  182. xeifrank on January 28th, 2008 11:53 pm

    This is what happens if you don’t use the “Cone Of Silence”.
    vr, Xei

  183. 300ZXNA on January 29th, 2008 12:13 am

    Here’s another thought that is just burning me up: prior to this move, everyone pretty much agreed that the O’s were one of, if not THE worst run organization in baseball . . . and they’re are this close to bending us over in a spectacular way. And to think I thought the worst was over the day they fired Woody Woodward . . .

  184. Tom on January 29th, 2008 1:33 am

    #183: I thought Woody just quietly retired.

  185. thefin190 on January 29th, 2008 1:48 am

    A “diehard M’s fan’s” response to my response on Ken Rosenthal’s opinion about the Bedard-Jones trade

    “Seattlefan(me) your an idiot. I’m a Diehard mariner fan

    Losing Adam Jones is not a HUGE loss to Seattle. Reason being….

    Erik Bedard needs to be on a team thats close to division titles and when you add a pitcher of his caliber to a rotation thats decent (using that word lightly) significantly improves the chance of taking the division. Thats where Bedard needs to be, not on a team that has 10 straight losing seasons. He deserves much more.

    The Orioles are in a “re-building” phase sending someone like Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, and George Sherril is a huge help. When they got rid of Miguel Tejada the received something like 4 or 5 players. Getting rid of Bedard, they’ll be getting the same amount of players, that greatly helps a team thats re-building and re-builds quickly.

    So in reality this trade helps both teams greatly. It’ll get Seattle deep into the playoffs, if not the World Series (depending on Richie) at least one the next two years. It will also help Baltimore re-build a team that definatly needs re-building and it will do it quickly.

    GO M’S!”

    People like that make me want to pull my hair out. And the fact that foxsports.com isn’t letting me log in to further defend myself is driving me mad. But it does show the ignorance that the Mariner’s officials feed their fans through the press. Who can agree with me?

  186. AK4Sea on January 29th, 2008 1:49 am

    I think everyone secretly enjoys a car crash, just a little bit. Before you start screaming, there’s that one split second where your mind thinks, ‘Whee!’

    So, if given the choice between ‘Bedard Will/Won’t/Will Be a Mariner’ and the inevitable ‘Horacio Ramirez Changes Grip On ___ball’ or ‘Ramirez Gells with Mel’ articles, I choose the former. This is certainly a more exciting offseason than what we’re used to.

  187. Terminator X on January 29th, 2008 3:00 am

    I know about the Wilkerson deal, just curious what the take on Balentein is by the USSM guys. Could he/should he be given the chance to fight for the starting job? Is he ready? His numbers last year seem to indicate that he’s ready to me, but as far as the hardcore fans go, I’m pretty casual (meaning I read all this and am able to follow most of the stats and logic, but would have no idea how to do any of it myself).

    If there has already been an in-depth discussion on how Wlad would do in the ML this year and how he’d affect the team and I just missed it, by all means just point me in that direction and I’ll let this big confusing mess carry on.

  188. scraps on January 29th, 2008 4:43 am

    You’re right, Dave. I had an emotional response to the tone of Baker’s piece, which does seem to me to be setting up Jones as the scapegoat more than anyone else.

  189. coffee on January 29th, 2008 5:38 am

    #187 – Check here for the latest take on Balentien.

    http://ussmariner.com/2008/01/28/answering-some-questions/

  190. smolder12 on January 29th, 2008 6:44 am

    Talk about worse case scenario–from ken Rosenthal:

    The Orioles are angry with the Mariners for allowing the trade talks to go public. Outfielder Adam Jones, the centerpiece of the M’s offer, blurted to reporters in Venezuela that he was headed to Baltimore for a physical, indicating that a deal was near. The Orioles are so furious, another source says, they again might be insisting that the Mariners include 17-year-old shortstop Carlos Triunfel in the deal.

  191. terry on January 29th, 2008 6:55 am

    The Orioles are so furious, another source says, they again might be insisting that the Mariners include 17-year-old shortstop Carlos Triunfel in the deal.

    Paraphrased: “The Orioles are so furious that they have begun hitting themselves in the head with bowling pins”.

  192. msb on January 29th, 2008 7:02 am

    So in reality this trade helps both teams greatly. It’ll get Seattle deep into the playoffs, if not the World Series (depending on Richie) at least one the next two years.

    wow– based on what I heard when I turned on the radio this morning, that might have been Dick Fain writing in there….

  193. petec on January 29th, 2008 7:20 am

    msb – I suffered through those segments listening to Mitch and Fain as well. That was truly painful. It was a USS Mariner reader’s worst nightmare. All the talk about W-L records, batting average, RBIs and strikeouts. Mitch called the deal a “no brainer”. Absolute bafflement that Washburn hasn’t exactly set the world on fire in Seattle, after his shiny ERA in Anaheim. It was like all of the ignorant comments in here in a month condensed down to 15 minutes. Like a beer bong of stupidity.

  194. Carson on January 29th, 2008 7:28 am

    So, let’s be realistic. Baltimore can’t really be so upset about news leaking on something they supposedly agreed to that they’d demand another high end prospect, right?

    Bavasi just cannot be that stupid that he’d give in to it. I’m not his biggest fan, but come on. The man isn’t a blockhead like some of you think.

    If somehow he does, then he has officially been fleeced. While I don’t agree with the original trade, at least he fleeced himself because he was doing what he thought would help the team win.

  195. King on January 29th, 2008 7:31 am

    The thought of having Reed back in our outfield seems like the best option if Jones is gone. Reed hit the ball well on AAA last year, and was a gold glove calibur outfielder when he was up here. Doesnt he seem like a better option than Wilkerson?

  196. Mr. Egaas on January 29th, 2008 7:31 am

    How funny would it be if Adam Jones himself saves the M’s, by leaking some information leading to a nixed trade?

  197. xxtinynickxx on January 29th, 2008 7:40 am

    This is silly. If they are being baby’s about trading Bedard now, cut the deal off. AJ and George will be better for Seattle this season then Bedard could be. Give the Minor Leauge guys a shot at making the team. They may not go 15-5 but the overall DF that AJ brings and the way George comes out of the penn make up for it enough that its not going to matter. I’m seriously thinking that everyone in the M’s nation is also just tired of this silly trade rumor. Today O’s get it done or the Mariners just need to kill the dang thing.

  198. jamesllegade on January 29th, 2008 7:44 am

    I’d like Reed AND Wilkerson… put Ibanez at DH/1B.

    Dave – what would that do to our defensive numbers?

  199. Carson on January 29th, 2008 7:48 am

    Enough with the Ibanez at DH/1B talk, please.

    It was only going to happen if Sexson got dealt. With the outfield depth being as bad as it will be if Jones is traded, it won’t even be a factor then. They aren’t going to run out and sign two outfielders, move Ibanez to 1B/DH and have Vidro benched.

    It’s just not something that is going to happen.

  200. galaxieboi on January 29th, 2008 8:14 am

    Hey, we got mentioned in the P-I today. Ted Miller wrote a piece about ‘the Trade’ that wasn’t (or hasn’t). He even used a direct quote. I’ll find out who wrote it later on.

  201. bubblegumcrisis on January 29th, 2008 8:21 am

    If this latest development is true it’s time to call off the deal. Because AJ spoke we need to give up our most promising prospect? What? Every time I think we have an inept front office, I see Baltimore, and I suddenly feel much better.

  202. Jay R. on January 29th, 2008 8:22 am

    That is a decent article by Miller. I sent the same quote to a friend via IM yesterday when I read it here…sums things up pretty well.

  203. ooter on January 29th, 2008 8:45 am

    157 – Did you try enlarging your browser window? The button won’t force the dreaded horizontal scroll bar but if you manually enlarge your browser, it should display the entire button.

  204. Lauren, token chick on January 29th, 2008 8:48 am

    ooter: Yeah, I figured that out, but decided not to clog up the works with another post explaining that I was able to see the button.

    THWARTED!

  205. galaxieboi on January 29th, 2008 8:51 am

    Dave or Derek, is there any substance to Felix being overwhelmed by being the ‘number one’ starter or the ‘ace of the staff’? I’m really curious.

  206. mln on January 29th, 2008 8:55 am

    It would almost be a case of divine intervention if this deal is called off because of some whim of Peter Angelos or similar baseball unrelated issue. Better pray to the USSM Pony for the hand of fate to save the M’s.

  207. Jar on January 29th, 2008 9:00 am

    I just read this on orioleshangout.com. Probably just crap, so take it for what it’s worth.

    “Interesting – Stan the Fan is on Viviano’s show right now saying that there is internal concern in the Orioles camp regarding Adam Jones and the fact that they believe he has a degenerative hip condition.

    According to Stan, this is the leverage the Orioles are trying to use in order to pry more away from Seattle in this trade. There is a perception that Jones is in fact damaged goods.”

    I have no idea who “Stan the Fan” is or what Viviano’s show is. Please don’t put to much behind this quote.

  208. S-Mac on January 29th, 2008 9:08 am

    I bet “Stan the Fan” is really just “My friend Doug, who knows a guy”. And “Viviano’s show” is “When I ran into him at Dunkin’ Donuts”.

    Adam Jones does not have a degenerative hip condition. If anything, he has a regenerative hip condition. Robot hips!

  209. Jar on January 29th, 2008 9:13 am

    S-Mac, I am sure you’re right, it was just something I hadn’t heard yet. It sounded pretty fishy to me, but I like to hear all the info and disern from there.

  210. gwangung on January 29th, 2008 9:34 am

    “Interesting – Stan the Fan is on Viviano’s show right now saying that there is internal concern in the Orioles camp regarding Adam Jones and the fact that they believe he has a degenerative hip condition

    Now this is getting REALLY stupid…

  211. et_blankenship on January 29th, 2008 9:42 am

    “Dave or Derek, is there any substance to Felix being overwhelmed by being the ‘number one’ starter or the ‘ace of the staff’? I’m really curious.”

    Sorry, I’m neither Dave nor Derek . . . but any pitcher who dubs himself “King” should relish in the role of staff ace. Besides, it’s just pitching.

  212. et_blankenship on January 29th, 2008 9:46 am

    I hit submit before I finished my thought, but I was saying . . . it’s just pitching. “Staff Ace” is a title that bears no extra responsibility. He will do battle with a fellow #1 on Opening Day. After that, he will be like every other pitcher.

  213. bakomariner on January 29th, 2008 9:51 am

    if they bring in bedard, who is the “number 1″? does felix or bedard start opening day? i would hope felix…

  214. Taylor H on January 29th, 2008 10:02 am

    Probably Felix, with him being the future of the organization. Bedard (Bay-dard) would probably be OK with that, seeing that he’s only an M for maybe 2 years.

  215. Gilgameche on January 29th, 2008 10:04 am

    bedard

  216. msb on January 29th, 2008 10:15 am

    “Interesting – Stan the Fan is on Viviano’s show right now saying that there is internal concern in the Orioles camp regarding Adam Jones and the fact that they believe he has a degenerative hip condition

    Now this is getting REALLY stupid…

    the thread on this at the Orioles Hangout is very entertaining.

  217. JMHawkins on January 29th, 2008 10:20 am

    “Interesting – Stan the Fan is on Viviano’s show right now saying that there is internal concern in the Orioles camp regarding Adam Jones and the fact that they believe he has a degenerative hip condition

    Now this is getting REALLY stupid…

    Let’s vote on the next reason the trade is on hold:

    1 – Freak snowstorm in Seattle gave Bedard bad flashbacks to his Ontario childhood so he offered to sign an extension with Baltimore for less money than he previously asked for.

    2 – Angelos declared a ban on trades within the division, and McPhail needs a couple of days to convince his owner that Seattle is not, in fact, in the AL East.

    3 – The curse laid upon Seattle by the Baseball Gods for allowing Edgar to rot in AAA for so long finally expired at 11:59pm Sunday night and the trade really is going to fall through.

  218. Gregor on January 29th, 2008 10:29 am

    if they bring in bedard, who is the “number 1″? does felix or bedard start opening day?

    Definitely Bedard, since Bavasi was talking a few days ago about trading for an opening day starter.

  219. hcoguy on January 29th, 2008 10:47 am

    The Worldwide Leader has a poll on the MLB page.

    “If the Erik Bedard trades goes through, which team would get the best deal?”

    A. Biased questions aside…

    B. I say Minnesota since they can theoretically ask for at least a similar package for Santana.

    C. With over 11,000 votes in, the M’s are “winning” with 71% of the vote. And it is pretty evenly distributed by state and region. Although, Kansas somehow must be where the Official Erik Bedard fan club is located as they come in at 85.

    What does this all mean? Nothing. People are stupid. This trade is stupid. Go vote. Or don’t.

  220. Catherwood on January 29th, 2008 12:01 pm

    Lost in all this is the fact that Baltimore, no matter WHO they get, is going nowhere.

    They’re in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox, for crissakes, both of whom are perfectly prepared to spend like drunken sailors to get what they want – and to prevent competitors from getting what THEY want. I can confidently predict that the Orioles will not see the post-season for at least the next ten years. Barring some dramatic revision in how ballclubs are allowed to spend money, anyway, like hard salary caps and such.

    And unlike most of you guys, I was a kid in the Baltimore area in the late 60′s and early 70′s, so I USED to be a fan.

  221. joser on January 29th, 2008 5:15 pm

    B. I say Minnesota since they can theoretically ask for at least a similar package for Santana.

    You might want to tell Minnesota that. D’oh! Too late!

  222. joser on January 29th, 2008 5:20 pm

    If Baltimore wants AJ, they will take him for the deal offered. If not, I will be a happy M’s fan, because I cannot imagine Bavasi giving more to the O’s because AJ violated some stupid code of silence.

    Unfortunately, I can. I can also imagine him construing the Santana deal as proof he needs to sweeten his offer. Bavasiland is a weird, weird place.

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