Jones spent Super Bowl Sunday being poked and prodded

DMZ · February 4, 2008 at 7:30 am · Filed Under Mariners 

Hickey o’er at the PI reported Jones was in Baltimore for his physical yesterday. It probably means we’ll hear the announcement today or tomorrow.

I almost don’t see what the point of having comments open would be: is there anything new to say about the trade itself or how crazy this whole thing’s been? I feel like we should just come up with a sheet of stock comments you can refer to easily — anti/pro/neutral, numbered
p1) This is a good trade
a1) This is a horrible trade
n1) We won’t know if it’s a good trade for a while
p2) They’re just prospects
a2) Bedard is just a veteran

and so on. Then you could just say “a1. a2, a3, a4.” and the next person can say p1. p2. p3. Save keystrokes all around.

Update: Baker chimes in that Jones is in Baltimore today:

It took a while, but we’ve finally gotten it confirmed that Adam Jones is indeed in Baltimore taking his physical today. Would have liked to have this out to you last night, but unfortunately, we could not get anyone to verify it. Finally, we can. We’d rather be a few hours late than be wrong. Remember, how often folks had said Jones was in Baltimore prior to last night?

Comments

137 Responses to “Jones spent Super Bowl Sunday being poked and prodded”

  1. kolson82 on February 4th, 2008 7:42 am

    a1

  2. IMFletcher on February 4th, 2008 7:45 am

    a1

  3. 116in01 on February 4th, 2008 7:46 am

    a1, a1, a1…

  4. bubblegumcrisis on February 4th, 2008 7:48 am

    p1, p2 :D

  5. The W on February 4th, 2008 7:49 am

    p1, p2

  6. Dobbs on February 4th, 2008 7:51 am

    a1

  7. DKulich on February 4th, 2008 7:51 am

    a1

  8. Bodhizefa on February 4th, 2008 7:55 am

    On a lighter note, I started up a season of MLB 2K7 as the GM of the Mariners. One of my goals from the computer starting out was, “Jose Vidro is overpaid. Find some way to get rid of him.”

    It’s pretty awesome that our real life team manages to be outfoxed by a simple computer program. So we got that goin’ for us!

  9. Bodhizefa on February 4th, 2008 7:56 am

    Oh, and a1.

  10. huhwhat on February 4th, 2008 7:57 am

    n1

  11. tgf on February 4th, 2008 7:58 am

    a1

  12. Goob on February 4th, 2008 8:03 am

    Bodhizefa, thanks for that laugh. I needed it :)

  13. shupurrs on February 4th, 2008 8:03 am

    a1, of tragic proportions… :(

  14. zzyzx on February 4th, 2008 8:05 am

    a1, but…

    The but being I remember how horrified I was by the Jose Cruz Jr. trade. Yes, we received crap for him, but at the same time, Cruz didn’t develop as I expected. Hey, I won money at poker this weekend AND the Pats lost the Super Bowl. I feel like anything can happen today.

  15. galaxieboi on February 4th, 2008 8:10 am

    a1

  16. SeattleKurt on February 4th, 2008 8:14 am

    That is JUST GREAT. Every darn time someone in the media writes an article that has the words “Adam Jones” and “physical” in it, Peter Angelos does his version of SLOWLY I TURN….and poof, we have to wait another week for anything to happen.

    That being said, I started out as an p1 with a side of p2 and moved slowly to an a1. As the weeks progressed and I became more amazed at just how inept both of these front offices were, I moved to an a1, with a p2 (although it ran in conjunction, the movement to the a1 was in no way connected to the ineptitude of the front offices).

  17. billT on February 4th, 2008 8:15 am

    How about the apathetic response of ‘I don’t care. This team can fail to make the playoffs with Jones in the lineup for the next six years just the same as they can fail to make the playoffs with Bedard starting for the next two. This is a stupid trade made by a stupid organization, and I’m shocked anyone would expect anything different.’

  18. Steve Nelson on February 4th, 2008 8:16 am

    ot

  19. ajdaddy on February 4th, 2008 8:20 am

    n1,p2

  20. msb on February 4th, 2008 8:30 am

    um, all of the above?

  21. adroit on February 4th, 2008 8:35 am

    n1, a2 until we know how long he’ll be with the M’s.

  22. Bilbo on February 4th, 2008 8:47 am

    p1, p2

  23. Jeff Nye on February 4th, 2008 8:50 am

    We need a preformatted response about ponies.

  24. Tek Jansen on February 4th, 2008 8:59 am

    a1, and p2 is simply not true.

  25. dlb on February 4th, 2008 9:00 am

    a1

  26. BLYKMYK44 on February 4th, 2008 9:01 am

    suddenly a craving for tangy overrated steak sauce

  27. Klatz on February 4th, 2008 9:02 am

    42

  28. derubino on February 4th, 2008 9:03 am

    Definitely n1. Bedard is good now, and we’ll probably be better in 2008/2009 cause of this trade. However, who knows if we’ll be doomed by 2010 or, as another poster said, this is the second coming of Jose Cruz Jr.

  29. dw on February 4th, 2008 9:05 am

    I’m going to go for n3:

    Look, this is the O’s, and they’re usually pretty stupid about signing players. So either the M’s will sneak off with a huge prospect, or this will be a cataclysmic bust on both sides, or the O’s will win the wild card on Jones’ bat alone.

  30. Carson on February 4th, 2008 9:12 am

    a1

    I suppose the good news is that Triunfel is definately not included since they reports are now constant that it is AJ/Sherrill and three minor league pitchers.

    The bad news is that it is AJ/Sherrill and three minor league pitchers.

  31. skjes on February 4th, 2008 9:15 am

    Bingo!

  32. IdahoInvader on February 4th, 2008 9:17 am

    n1

    Only because if it were the other way around, I’d be sure the prospects we’d be getting would end up screwing us over.

  33. astroboy on February 4th, 2008 9:23 am

    a1, a1, a1, ot, a1, screw p2, a1, ot, a1

  34. Sports on a Schtick on February 4th, 2008 9:23 am

    a1

  35. MER on February 4th, 2008 9:25 am

    n1

    I know its a cop-out but hind sight is 20/20. As DMZ states there, this trade (assuming it goes through and the players are those as speculated) has been debated to death. I think only time will tell who was right.

  36. Rubin on February 4th, 2008 9:27 am

    n1; depends on Bedard’s health and whether he signs to a longer deal…and of course how well the prospects turn out. If you’re asking me for odds then it’s more likely ‘a1′; likely Jones turns out to be an All-Star and at least one of the big three turns out to be a No. 2 while Bedards does well this year meaning he’ll want to test the FA market.

  37. PositivePaul on February 4th, 2008 9:31 am

    SR-71

    As in spy plane circling Baltimore to try and get photographic evidence that Jones is indeed in Baltimore…

  38. edgar is go(o)d on February 4th, 2008 9:40 am

    a1 x p1, checkmate

  39. klosetfann on February 4th, 2008 9:51 am

    n1. today lets forget about baseball and the M’s, lets rejoice in the Patriots loss. Scream from the mountaintops and run around with joy. Because this was a christmas miracle.
    18-0hnooooo. LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

  40. eternal on February 4th, 2008 9:53 am

    Where’s c? I always choose c.

  41. Breadbaker on February 4th, 2008 9:56 am

    When the Cruz trade went down, almost no one noticed that we were simultaneously giving up Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Mr. I Have No Movement on My Fastball. So let’s keep our eye on non-marquee trades, too.

  42. Sklyansky on February 4th, 2008 9:57 am

    a1

  43. downwarddog on February 4th, 2008 10:05 am

    Apropos of nothing: I’m just glad we don’t have to see Jeff Weaver pitch in a Mariner’s uniform anymore.

  44. lokiforever on February 4th, 2008 10:10 am

    a1, but with a lot of luck, n1

  45. Mariner Fan in CO Exile on February 4th, 2008 10:19 am

    a1, but resigned to our fate.

    Still, I am looking forward to my annual Spring Training trip. We have a good rotation. Every single guy in our rotation can give us a chance to win on a given night (I only have to avoid any kind of pesky cost-benefit analysis). No gas cans. I really need silver linings, and that’s about all that makes a1 something that doesn’t make me cry.

    Ah, who am I kidding, I’ll be close to tears every time a ball is hit in the outfield in the direction of a corner outfielder . . . and every time Vidro tries to leg out a double play . .and every time we hear about our offense stalling . . .and every time Sexson’s average dips back below .250 . . . and every time our new lefty late inning guy blows a lead . . .

  46. Oolon on February 4th, 2008 10:23 am

    n1

  47. hub on February 4th, 2008 10:28 am

    steak sauce

  48. jlc on February 4th, 2008 10:33 am

    a2…I know there are some minor leaguers involved, so the scale might be different, but has anyone measured the amount of grit each side is getting and giving up?

  49. KingCorran on February 4th, 2008 10:36 am

    p1, and a bucket of p2

  50. Paul B on February 4th, 2008 10:39 am

    a1, and give me a shout in a couple of years after the new GM has time to try to make something out of the pathetic pieces that the current administration left when they got drummed out.

  51. Tuomas on February 4th, 2008 10:40 am

    Isn’t P2 the response guaranteed to bring killer bees to your door?

  52. LoydKristmis on February 4th, 2008 10:45 am

    Sorry to spread what is hopefully just speculation, but word from O’s fans here in the capitol area is that the trade has gone from 5 for Bedard to 7 or 8 for Bedard and B Roberts. 8 players??? Please tell me this is a terrible rumor. I have been promoting the logistics of swapping Lopez and Roberts for a while now if we are already doing the Bedard trade but not if it means Triunfel and others are included!

  53. Celadus on February 4th, 2008 10:50 am

    #44: Most of the people involved are too tall to have much grit.

    In general, the formula is that grittiness is inversely proportional to the average height of the participants in a given sport/position.

    Thus, a 6’1″ second baseman is virtually free of grit, whereas a 6’8″ NBA center probably possesses grit in abundance.

  54. Adam The Lord on February 4th, 2008 10:51 am

    p1!!!

  55. Gomez on February 4th, 2008 10:53 am

    a1, n1, n2 and I just sunk your battleship.

  56. IdahoInvader on February 4th, 2008 10:55 am

    Roberts for Lopez VERY GOOD

    Triunfel for anyone is BAD

  57. Jim Thomsen on February 4th, 2008 11:03 am

    Dammit, Gomez stole my joke. Ah, well, I still have my PT boat. And my a1 boat.

  58. Mo Vaughn Is My Hero on February 4th, 2008 11:05 am

    A100. (Which is, “God I hate Bavasi as our GM. Why oh why does he have to make at least one stupid move every single year?)

  59. SeattleKurt on February 4th, 2008 11:05 am

    Hmmm, Jason Bay. What are people’s thoughts on him and what it would take to get him.

  60. et_blankenship on February 4th, 2008 11:05 am

    Uh oh. The legal team for A1 Steak Sauce has released the following statement:

    “Our client, A1 Steak Sauce, is most displeased by this blatant copyright infringement and the subsequent defamation of character in its being attached, by name, to such an unsavory baseball trade. A1 Steak Sauce is not about unsavoryness. No, A1 Steak Sauce is about turning a dry, overcooked Applebee’s steak into a dry, overcooked Applebee’s steak sheathed in a zesty Worcester- and prune-flavored sludge. In other words, pretty much the opposite of unsavoryness.”

  61. PositivePaul on February 4th, 2008 11:08 am

    Well, now I change my vote to O-541T

  62. PositivePaul on February 4th, 2008 11:09 am

    Whoops, forgot to link the 0-541T

  63. rcc on February 4th, 2008 11:10 am

    Et_Blankenship,

    Absolutely hilarious…it is good to get a laugh out of this horrible deal.

    Baltimore fans finally will have something to cheer about.

  64. Jeff Nye on February 4th, 2008 11:17 am

    Honestly, at this point I just plain am worn out by this whole process.

    I want it to be over, so we can post-mortem the trade and move on.

  65. PositivePaul on February 4th, 2008 11:23 am

    I think we ALL want it over. It’s safe to say it will be w/in 48 hours at most now.

  66. sass on February 4th, 2008 11:24 am

    The really funny thing is that, with Sherrill gone, you know the team is, once again, going to be looking for a “veteren reliever.” You know, one who’s been through wars. If it was Jones/Sherrill for Bedard, I’d be n1, but throwing in the other three pitchers makes it an a1 for me, hardcore. Also, a2, because it’s funny. p2? Seriously?

  67. AK4Sea on February 4th, 2008 11:25 am

    I watched Groundhog Day this weekend and found myself making all sorts of odd connections.

    Like, Andie MacDowell is Adam Jones, and Chris Elliot is Bill Bavasi… Bill Murray represents the sad Mariners fans in us all, and Peter Angelos is the actual groundhog. It’s less a movie than a prophetic vision.

    a1

  68. JMHawkins on February 4th, 2008 11:29 am

    I want it to be over, so we can post-mortem the trade and move on.

    I wish the trade itself was laying on a slab in the morgue with a toe tag that said “Cause of Death: sudden onslaught of common sense.”

  69. matthew on February 4th, 2008 11:51 am

    a1∞!($%(&#%$#&%#(&%(*

  70. Wilder83 on February 4th, 2008 11:52 am

    When does Sherrill become a FA? Someone needs to slip him a note in his back pocket to re-sign with Seattle once his current contract is up.

  71. Transient Gadfly on February 4th, 2008 12:02 pm

    I want it to be over, so we can post-mortem the trade and move on.

    Hey, I’ll post-mortem it for you right now. How it actually shakes out is irrelevant to determining how good a trade it is. If you have to sit here with your fingers crossed hoping that Jones busts, that Sherrill declines, that Mickolio winds up as an average bullpen arm, and that Tillman and Bulter never amount to anything so that you can say that you made a good trade, then you made a bad trade.

    Sometimes you make bad trades and you get lucky. This is not to be confused with making a good trade. Sitting here right now we already know that in a 100 simulated universes in which we see the Erik Bedard trade made, somewhere between 65 and 80 of those universes, we regret making it.

  72. sokala on February 4th, 2008 12:02 pm

    n1

  73. PositivePaul on February 4th, 2008 12:08 pm

    When does Sherrill become a FA? Someone needs to slip him a note in his back pocket to re-sign with Seattle once his current contract is up.

    He was a super-two this year. So, three more years of arbi, I believe…

  74. Evan on February 4th, 2008 12:08 pm

    a1

  75. Evan on February 4th, 2008 12:10 pm

    Sitting here right now we already know that in a 100 simulated universes in which we see the Erik Bedard trade made, somewhere between 65 and 80 of those universes, we regret making it.

    We should regret making it in all 100 universes because it demonstrates that we’re really bad at running a baseball team.

    Being right isn’t valuable if you’re right only through blind luck. Luck isn’t repeatable.

    Rule #1. Don’t guess.
    Rule #2. Be right.

    Rule #1 is more important than rule #2.

  76. wlad on February 4th, 2008 12:22 pm

    p1

  77. biles90 on February 4th, 2008 12:34 pm

    a1: This is a bad move because of the general baseball team building philosophy behind it, not because there is a possibility of Jones et al not meeting their projections or the possibility of Bedard sustaining another career threatening injury. As opposed to last year’s HoRam-Soriano trade that would have been a good baseball move except that the M’s can’t evaluate major league talent and that this failure to evaluate HoRam appropriately led to multiple other poor choices on the M’s part (Morrow, Rick White, Silva, etc…).

  78. Steve Nelson on February 4th, 2008 12:42 pm

    My thinking is that individual trades should be evaluated based on the circumstances and information available at the time of the trade. Accordingly, I think the Freddy Garcia trade was good trade and is fully defensible.

    The abilities of a team or GM as a trader, however, should be based on how the aggregate outcomes of trades completed. If the upside potential in trades is seldom realized but the downside often occurs, the trader’s likely has a flawed skills in assessing the potentials of players involved. Similarly, if a team is continually finding that players obtained in trades don’t seem to fit consistently into a roster, it’s legitimate to question abilities to project and plan roster development.

  79. Adam S on February 4th, 2008 12:44 pm

    I hate the n1 view of this (or any) trade.

    If George Sherill breaks a finger in spring training, develops a new grip and then goes on to save 40 games and win the Cy Young, does that make the trade worse? If Bedard wins two Cy Youngs does this make the trade better? Wait and see is essentially the “all prospects” view — we have no idea what anyone is going to do so let’s look back in two years and see how they actually DID. The problem is you have to make decisions based on what you know NOW and thus we have to evaluate transactions based on what we know (or reasonably should know).

  80. tetrad on February 4th, 2008 12:45 pm

    a1

    I agree, “Barf in hat, mail to Mariners”

    Adam, George, et. al. good luck to you in Baltimore.

  81. Orlandu on February 4th, 2008 12:47 pm

    p1.

  82. ooter on February 4th, 2008 12:53 pm

    a1

  83. George Kaplan on February 4th, 2008 12:57 pm

    I am surprised only that the Mariners didn’t scale down their offer once Santana’s trade had taken place, since that benchmark tells me the Mariners overpaid.

    While it is true the Mets had to negotiate the biggest pitcher’s contract of all time to close the deal (something they could afford), they also received one of the top arms in baseball (great for the marketing department) and for better or worse they have Santana for another seven seasons.

    In this case, Bedard is a FA at the end of 2009, and unless he meets a hottie barrista who will refuse to move and leave Seattle, he can be expected to test the waters and see what sort of contract he can receive. Meanwhile, Jones is under Baltimore control through the 2013 season, including arbitration years. Even if each one of those pitchers the Orioles receives goes Tango Umbrella in their minors system and flames out, the Orioles will get 6 seasons of AJ for relatively cheap while the Ms get Bedard for two seasons, and then it is anybody’s guess.

    I am surprised the Ms didn’t reset the deal and either take some talent back or demand another player with Bedard, since the Santana trade (which happened during Angelos’ deliberations) redefined “fair” for this trade.

  84. SCL on February 4th, 2008 1:00 pm

    a1 –
    From Stone’s piece yesterday:

    Assessing Tillman, one scout said, “He’s definitely the prize of the pitchers. Now that he’s found his fastball and curve, he has a chance to be a solid No. 2 or 3 on a good team. He’s 94-95 [mph] with a plus curve and a change.”

    Does anyone think that is accurate?

  85. fornnwet on February 4th, 2008 1:11 pm

    p1, p2

  86. discojock on February 4th, 2008 1:13 pm

    a1. p2, but a2. damnit!

  87. Robobobot on February 4th, 2008 1:15 pm

    n1. we just have to wait and see.

  88. scott19 on February 4th, 2008 1:19 pm

    a1

  89. the other benno on February 4th, 2008 1:27 pm

    OK, there’s been all these posts about Jones’ physical in Baltimore, aren’t the M’s going to make Bedard get a physical here, or are they just taking his health on faith? Did I just miss it somewhere along the line?

  90. shupurrs on February 4th, 2008 1:27 pm

    Dear Bill Bavasi,
    You are running this organization into the ground. Your plan to win now is flawed and will never work.
    Thanks for nothing,
    USSM

  91. terry on February 4th, 2008 1:28 pm

    I thought the answer was always “C” with multiple choice questions…..

  92. Bodhizefa on February 4th, 2008 1:30 pm

    re: 84

    Yes, I think pretty much everyone thinks that’s an accurate depiction of Tillman’s potential. The knock on him is whether his make-up will deter him from reaching that potential. Dave thinks it’s a bigger problem than most scouts I’ve read, so that’s part of the USSM feeling on Tillman. Dave also thinks a bit more highly of Butler than other sites, believing him to have just as high a ceiling (if not slightly moreso) than Tillman.

    Inevitably, we’re losing an awful lot of goodness. The interesting thing about this whole process is that I’ve gotten to read what most of the important sites and experts have thought about the M’s minor league system, and honestly, I think they’ve generally underrated our guys by a decent margin. It’s very possible that I know so much about our prospects at this point that I’m overrating them, but it does appear to me that the East Coast bias is in effect in terms of prospect analysis. Most sites and authors have not recognized how sizable of a package the M’s are giving up, and I have to think a little bit of that is inferior analysis on their behalf.

  93. et_blankenship on February 4th, 2008 1:38 pm

    Latest rumor: George Sherrill and Brian Roberts to the Cubs for prospects.

  94. hoser on February 4th, 2008 1:42 pm

    a1.

    What I don’t get about p2 is that if they are just prospects that may not work out, wouldn’t that mean we need to keep even more of them in order to have any sustained success? It’s not like we’ve been doing well signing the best free agent pitchers even if we could afford to compete w/the Yankees and Red Sox.

    I could switch to following the Mets, who are big where I grew up, but I think it would be hard to watch or listen to their games. It would be better if I do the research to figure out how to get the English Premier League.

  95. et_blankenship on February 4th, 2008 1:47 pm

    94
    I love the EPL . . . but if heartbreak in the form of player movement and salary cap lopsidedness is not your bag, it’s definitely not for you.

  96. msb on February 4th, 2008 1:52 pm

    The left-handed Bedard could help to make the Mariners’ rotation formidable.

    “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

  97. gwangung on February 4th, 2008 2:13 pm

    Inevitably, we’re losing an awful lot of goodness. The interesting thing about this whole process is that I’ve gotten to read what most of the important sites and experts have thought about the M’s minor league system, and honestly, I think they’ve generally underrated our guys by a decent margin. It’s very possible that I know so much about our prospects at this point that I’m overrating them, but it does appear to me that the East Coast bias is in effect in terms of prospect analysis. Most sites and authors have not recognized how sizable of a package the M’s are giving up, and I have to think a little bit of that is inferior analysis on their behalf.

    I think it’s difficult for national services to know anything about the individual propsects for any one team. That’s why the national services are kinda “meh” on rating prospects for any one team. And for papers outside the region of a team (or even a division), they don’t anything about other teams’ farm systems or how they rate to the ones they do know.

  98. seadiv88 on February 4th, 2008 2:21 pm

    n1

  99. Evan on February 4th, 2008 2:33 pm

    No, we do not have to wait and see. With the rare exception (like the Raul Ibanez signing), there is nothing we’re likely to learn after the trade took place that changes how the trade should be viewed. All such information needs to be knowable by Bavasi at the time of the trade.

  100. JMHawkins on February 4th, 2008 2:38 pm

    No, we do not have to wait and see. With the rare exception (like the Raul Ibanez signing), there is nothing we’re likely to learn after the trade took place that changes how the trade should be viewed.

    It’s sort of like falling off the roof. You know right away it’s a bad idea, but you have to wait a little while to learn exactly how it turns out.

  101. doorbot on February 4th, 2008 2:43 pm

    a1

    and a2 because i like the new meme!

  102. CecilFielderRules on February 4th, 2008 2:47 pm

    #94 – Bingo. Generating productive players from a farm system is very similar to a lot of other value-creating decision systems. Success (and consistency of that success) is mainly the product of two factors – A) your depth of insight, and B) the breadth of application of that insight. Part A would be based on your scouting, drafting, analysis and the like. Part B would be how many players you get to select for your farm system – either by draft, trade, signing, etc.

    This is where the “they’re just prospects, nobody knows how they are going to pan out” argument really annoys me. If that is the case, then Part A (insight) is really small, and you need to make part B huge to have any success. This means hoarding as many prospects as possible in order to generate any successful ones. Of course, if you think the road to a successful franchise is through acquiring Proven Veteran talent, then I guess it doesn’t matter.

  103. James T on February 4th, 2008 2:50 pm

    Poor Andy MacPhail. He negotiates a terrific trade and then it’s like pulling teeth to get his slimy lawyer owner to okay it. No wonder the Orioles haven’t improved their club in the last few years. It’d take most of any player’s career for the O’s to sign off on a deal.

  104. Evan on February 4th, 2008 2:54 pm

    It’s sort of like falling off the roof. You know right away it’s a bad idea, but you have to wait a little while to learn exactly how it turns out.

    Right, but it’s still a bad idea right out of the gate. As such: a1

  105. Dave in Palo Alto on February 4th, 2008 2:59 pm

    a1. I mean, really, a1.

    Sick. And I have to p2.

  106. gwangung on February 4th, 2008 3:07 pm

    Of course, if you think the road to a successful franchise is through acquiring Proven Veteran talent, then I guess it doesn’t matter.

    Hasn’t that been shown NOT to be the case these past few years?

  107. PositivePaul on February 4th, 2008 3:08 pm

    Too bad Corco’s banned ’round these parts. He’d probably chime in w/a B-11…

  108. bubblegumcrisis on February 4th, 2008 3:16 pm

    83, the Haren trade is what this trade is based on and not the Santana one, hence the higher price.

  109. Gomez on February 4th, 2008 3:30 pm

    The left-handed Bedard could help to make the Mariners’ rotation formidable.

    “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

    Funny thing, msb: Lookout Landing and I had a surprisingly lengthy discussion on this.

  110. Jeff Nye on February 4th, 2008 3:53 pm

    Okay, maybe I shouldn’t have used the term “post-mortem”.

    I just wanted to indicate a sense of finality, not any sense of whether the trade was still under evaluation.

  111. EnglishMariner on February 4th, 2008 4:25 pm

    According to Baker GS52 has also been in Baltimore for his physical today. And he is being flipped to Atlanta for Lillibridge.

  112. Mike Snow on February 4th, 2008 4:34 pm

    Where do you get that Sherrill is being traded for Lillibridge? That’s not on Baker’s blog.

  113. Wishhiker on February 4th, 2008 4:37 pm

    n1, a2…signing an extension may change things. I’ve been looking at his age 28 comps and they all flamed out quickly or never really dominated again.

  114. Jay R. on February 4th, 2008 4:45 pm

    If I have to destroy a a lovely piece of meat with steak sauce, I would prefer Heinz 57. Unfortunately, all the Safeco vendors use is A1.

    I have been looking toward this trade with the sickening inevitability I felt about the Patriots winning the Super Bowl. I sure hope I am just as wrong about this!

  115. galaxieboi on February 4th, 2008 5:00 pm

    Wishhiker-

    Really? I’m only looking at his PECOTA card from last year and I’ve got (in order) Gary Peters (’65), Bob Kuzava (’51), Mark Langston (1988), Bob Gibson (1964), Juan Guzman (’95), Mel Parnell (’50), Mike Flanagan (’80), Bob Lemon (’49) and Whitey Ford (’57). That’s a pretty impressive list of comps. And that was before his year last year. I don’t have this years speadsheet because I’m at work and don’t have Excel on this computer.

  116. Librocrat on February 4th, 2008 5:23 pm

    a1, pu?

    112: That’s an inside joke from Lookout Landing. Some 16 year old posted it in like 15 different places, word for word, no capitalization and it came from a source about as credible as I am.

  117. Steve T on February 4th, 2008 5:44 pm

    The baseball-reference.com similars through age 28 are: Donovan Osborne, Bud Black, Trevor Wilson, Chris Nabholz, Roy Parmelee, Cal Eldred, Justin Thompson, Bill Hallahan, Dig Stigman, and Marty Pattin.

    Marty Pattin! Seattle Pilot. Decent pitcher (not for the Pilots, though). Don’t think I’d trade a good young outfielder, a closer, and 3/5 of a potential starting rotation for him.

  118. msb on February 4th, 2008 5:52 pm

    wonder how long will it take Angelos and his magnifying glass to go over Adam and The Pear’s full-body scans …

  119. galaxieboi on February 4th, 2008 5:52 pm

    Wow. That’s a rough bunch, isn’t it? Because Bob Gibson is in his PECOTA comps I’m going with that. =)

  120. msb on February 4th, 2008 5:56 pm

    oh, and Baker & Stone now have Sherrill prodded & on the plane back to Phoenix

  121. shortbus on February 4th, 2008 6:36 pm

    So now what do I do with my super-sweet Adam-Jones-making-a-diving-catch-in-an-Aquasox-uniform bobblehead I conned my six-year-old out of last summer? I’ll be in Baltimore for the M’s series the first week of the season so I might just see how much I can get for it outside Camden. It’s gotta be worth at least a couple of stadium beers.

  122. Wishhiker on February 4th, 2008 7:04 pm

    I didn’t look at PECOTA, but the absolute worst I found were these…

    According to Baseball Reference.com the most similar pitchers through age 28:

    1. Donovan Osborne (976)
    2. Bud Black (971)
    3. Trevor Wilson (970)
    4. Chris Nabholz (969)
    5. Roy Parmelee (963)
    6. Cal Eldred (962)
    7. Justin Thompson (961)
    8. Bill Hallahan (961)
    9. Dick Stigman (959)
    10. Marty Pattin (958)

    #1, Osborne, never pitched 100 innings again
    #2, Black, pitched only 324 innings in his next 3 years
    #3, Wilson, had only 90 innings left in him
    #4, Nabholz, never pitched again in the MLB
    #5, Parmelee, pitched only 411 innings over 3 years after, never dominating again.
    #6, Eldred, had only one season where he pitched 140 innings after though he played until he was 37
    #7, Thompson, had 1 2/3 IP left in him
    #8, Hallahan, had 1 All-Star appearance, and 2 years where I’d consider him an ace
    #9, Stigman, had 151 innings over 2 years left in him never really dominating again
    And #10, Pattin, had only 3 years where he pitched 150+ innings in his next 9

  123. Wishhiker on February 4th, 2008 7:10 pm

    Steve T…Missed that you had posted the list from Baseball Reference, but it’s good to share some of the numbers anyway…Scary list of comps there anyway, not that it means much more than any other speculation. He could be absolutely fine, never missing more than a start or 2 in a season for another 8+ years and win a few Cy Youngs.

  124. Wishhiker on February 4th, 2008 7:36 pm

    I didn’t like the Garcia trade at the time for 2 reasons.

    1 is that they traded a high profile pitcher for several players without getting a pitcher in return.

    2 is that particular pitcher had a link back to Langston and the Ace for Ace chain that went all the way back to 1984 (20 years at the time of the trade) was also broken by not getting pitching. I was hoping that Reed would have gotten included in this deal to reinvigorate the string. That is, with a slightly different set of prospects not including Jones.

  125. Celadus on February 4th, 2008 8:04 pm

    It would help me, and perhaps front offices, if there were more than one word for prospect when referring to those mentioned as possible trade bait. It seems unrealistic to refer to, say, Jones, Tillman, and Triunfel as prospects in any meaningful sense.

    The meaning is too broad–all prospect means in this case is three guys who don’t have much or any major league experience. Nothing to do with potential, prospective chances for stardom, or even accomplishments in the minor leagues.

    It’s a little like referring to Babe Ruth, Kirby Puckett, and Phil Rizzuto as Hall of Famers and assuming some sort of equivalence in talent because they all fit within the set of players identified as Hall of Famers.

  126. Scooter4 on February 4th, 2008 8:11 pm

    n1 is the only true answer. We can speculate all we want, but none of us know for sure. I personally like the trade, however.

  127. Jake N. on February 4th, 2008 8:50 pm

    I have only one thing to say. Every fifth day I do not have Horam staring lost and bewildered back at me through the TV. You all know the look! It starts around the second inning. Great the pitching is better! Who the hell is gonna score any runs? Were gonna play small ball, but the one guy beside Ichiro that can actually steal a bag just left to Baltimore. Go figure.

  128. msb on February 4th, 2008 9:13 pm

    from Kirby Arnold

    “Adam Jones and George Sherrill of the Mariners were in Baltimore for their physicals on Monday, but Erik Bedard wasn’t expected to have his physical until Tuesday at the earliest. As of Monday night, Bedard hadn’t ben told to leave for Seattle, the Baltimore Sun said … neither Tillman nor Butler had been told anything officially from the Mariners as of early Monday evening. That came from a Mariners teammate who’d spent most of the afternoon bowling with Tillman and Butler in Peoria, Ariz., where they’re all working out at the Mariners’ spring training facility.”

  129. Carson on February 4th, 2008 9:39 pm

    125 – Sorry, but a 17 year old who hasn’t even seen AA yet can’t be classified as anything but a prospect.

    What do you want to call him? “A potential star?” “A star in the making?” “A kid with talent past his years, but still needs some minor league refining?”

    It doesn’t really matter, they all mean the same thing.

  130. edgar for mayor on February 4th, 2008 10:12 pm

    a1…

  131. Slippery Elmer on February 4th, 2008 11:10 pm

    Jake N.:”. . . Were gonna play small ball, but the one guy beside Ichiro that can actually steal a bag just left to Baltimore.”

    How does The Ignitor being dealt not deserve its own thread?

  132. Sports on a Schtick on February 4th, 2008 11:40 pm

    I was looking up “bad Mariner trades” and came across this USSM doozie.

    I’m pretty sure AJ is still among the top five most valuable Mariners. And if there was an up-to-date list I would think Sherrill, Tillman and (probably) Butler would be in the top 25 as well.

    Also Yahoo! readers are smart.

  133. Zobmie on February 4th, 2008 11:58 pm

    I keep reading statements about the Bedard trade that go something like this:
    “The Mariners are losing Jones, but they have Wladimir Balentien waiting in the wings in case the Wilkerson experiment fails or Jose Vidro grinds to a halt.”

    Do you this this statement has any merit?

  134. Sidi on February 5th, 2008 12:39 am

    “The Mariners are losing Jones, but they have Wladimir Balentien waiting in the wings in case the Wilkerson experiment fails or Jose Vidro grinds to a halt.”

    Do you this this statement has any merit?

    Well, we may be losing penicillin, but we still have ritualistic chanting in case animal sacrifice or blood-letting fails.

  135. Celadus on February 5th, 2008 1:14 am

    #128. We don’t have the vocabulary to make meaningful distinctions. If we classify Jones as a prospect, then Triunfel isn’t, certainly not to the same degree. I’d call him a young minor leaguer with promise and be done with it.

    Jones is a prospect.

    Or Jones is a major league talent without at bats in the majors and Triunfel is a prospect.

    Lumping them into the same category seduces one into making lazy and inaccurate equivalences.

  136. BigB on February 5th, 2008 4:49 pm

    Can this trade please just go through or get axed? The suspense is killing me.

  137. SeattleKurt on February 6th, 2008 1:31 pm

    Just a FEW of the headlines of the past two weeks…

    * O’s ace not in Seattle yet
    * Even Batista waiting for trade to happen
    * Bedard trade almost complete
    * Reports: Bedard trade might be closer to reality
    * Orioles, M’s look to clear hurdle for Bedard trade
    * Report: O’s options are Bedard extension, trade
    * Source: Angelos yet to greenlight Bedard trade
    * Bedard trade talks heat up between O’s, Mariners
    * Bedard trade talks still in limbo
    * Deal or no deal? O’s expect resolution soon
    *
    * MacPhail: Angelos didn’t veto proposed Bedard trade
    *Angelos’ involvement could be delaying Bedard deal
    * MacPhail: No agreement with Mariners on Bedard trade
    * Is Jones-Bedard trade a done deal?
    * M’s deal for Bedard on hold
    * Bedard to Mariners getting closer
    * Seattle not alone in Bedard hunt
    * O’s-Mariners trade talks stall
    * O’s deny deal in place with Seattle for Bedard
    * Mariners ask Jones to return to U.S.
    * Jones-Bedard trade in the works

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