M’s dump HoRam

Dave · March 12, 2008 at 11:48 am · Filed Under Mariners 

The M’s released Horacio Ramirez today. Because his contract was non-guaranteed, he could be cut before March 15th for 1/6th of the $2.75 million he was owed for the full season, so the M’s are only out $460,000 for tossing him overboard.

Well, $460,000 and Rafael Soriano. But at least they finally figured out what a sunk cost was and got rid of the guy, rather than trying to keep him around as a justification for their past stupidity.

Comments

58 Responses to “M’s dump HoRam”

  1. SCL on March 12th, 2008 11:51 am

    Could that mean that the M’s would be smart enough to dump Cairo too?

  2. Dave on March 12th, 2008 11:52 am

    Don’t count on it.

  3. jsa on March 12th, 2008 11:54 am

    So who do they get too replace him?
    Whats the chance of them bringing up someone in the organization?

  4. bakomariner on March 12th, 2008 11:56 am

    I would hope this means that they have finally learned their lesson and have decided to swallow their pride…but it probably hasn’t…If they let Baek, Jimerson, Norton, and especially Morse go to keep Cairo, my head will explode…

  5. astroboy on March 12th, 2008 11:57 am

    It’s a minor miracle that the M’s brass finally got wise and just cut ties with Horatio Piñata. I think expecting them to wise up to Cairo (and a couple other players as well)is pretty much expecting way too much… kind of like expecting a pony to grow wings and become a Pegasus.

  6. NBarnes on March 12th, 2008 11:59 am

    I can only imagine what the Braves’ first reaction was when Bavasi offered them Soriano for The Wrong Ramirez. >_<

  7. Mike Snow on March 12th, 2008 12:00 pm

    So who do they get too replace him?

    What do you mean by replace him? In the rotation? Already done. On the roster? There wasn’t a spot for him, that’s why he’s been released. On the 40-man? Probably another Anderson Garcia type that some team cuts loose when the roster crunches arrive later in the spring.

  8. Jeff Nye on March 12th, 2008 12:01 pm

    Like Dave says, any recognition that the Mariners at least recognize the concept of sunk costs is a positive sign.

  9. Mr. Egaas on March 12th, 2008 12:04 pm

    I can only imagine what the Braves’ first reaction was when Bavasi offered them Soriano for The Wrong Ramirez. >_<

    Like finding a 10 dollar bill on the street. Make the move then quickly go about your business while not looking back. Hide your excitement.

  10. dnc on March 12th, 2008 12:05 pm

    I think we’ve seen plenty of sunk cost recognition in the Bavasi era. Olerud, Amaral, Spiezio…the M’s haven’t had any real problem ridding themselves of unproductive parts before their time. One thing I like about Bavasi is I think he’s willing to acknowledge mistakes.

    The problem isn’t with how he recognizes mistakes, it’s with how he continues to not learn from them.

  11. bakomariner on March 12th, 2008 12:10 pm

    10- Olerud was fine…the others…terrible…

    I wonder if it went down like this:

    Mel- This Horacio guy really sucks. What were you thinking?

    Mac- Talk to Bill…

    IF Mel had anything to do with this, then this alone makes bringing him in worth it…

  12. jlc on March 12th, 2008 12:19 pm

    “We did not believe Horacio was going to break camp with us,” Mariners GM Bill Bavasi said in a release. “We felt it would be in everyone’s best interest to give him time to catch on with another club.”

    See, the timing had nothing to do with the deadline for the M’s having to pick up his full contract…

  13. The Ghost of Spike Owen on March 12th, 2008 12:21 pm

    Today is my wife’s birthday, yet here I find a gift seemingly selected with just me in mind.

    Thanks Bill. Ever so thoughtful. It’s just what I wanted.

    Now do Richie.

  14. thefin190 on March 12th, 2008 12:23 pm

    Speaking of Richie, how much would it cost the M’s to cut ties with him? Would it cost the whole 14 million for his final year? And what about Cairo?

  15. reality3 on March 12th, 2008 12:24 pm

    Yipeee! Now let Cairo go so they can share cab fare back to the airport!

  16. currcoug on March 12th, 2008 12:34 pm

    It would interesting if someone with the time could add up the cost of such mistakes by Bavasi.

  17. scott19 on March 12th, 2008 12:42 pm

    Na, na, “Ho, Ho,” goodbye! :)

    I now wonder who this year’s designated Gas Can will be?

  18. metz123 on March 12th, 2008 12:45 pm

    Does this mean Dickey will make the club?

  19. Steve Nelson on March 12th, 2008 12:46 pm

    Listening “between the words” regarding Cairo — I think the Mariners believe that a key way to improve the team in 2008 is to get Willie Bloomquist more playing time. The Mariners love Bloomquist; they believe he makes good things happen when he is in the lineup and they want more of it. At the same time, they know the value of using him the way they did last year.

    Their solution is to bring in Cairo as another version of Willie, giving McLaren the freedom to deploy Willie more often as a substitute to give players a game off or as a baserunning substitute earlier in the game.

    That means little likelihood of Cairo not making the team – to drop Cairo would mean losing the added value they perceive that would come from Bloomquist getting more playing time. Not saying I agree with this thinking; it just seems to me this is the logic being followed by the team here.

  20. eponymous coward on March 12th, 2008 12:52 pm

    Listening “between the words” regarding Cairo — I think the Mariners believe that a key way to improve the team in 2008 is to get Willie Bloomquist more playing time.

    Said it before, I’ll say it again: I think Jose Lopez is on a VERY short leash, and Willie’s his replacement should he go cold in April. The fact that Willie offers precisely NO improvement over Lopez, even if Lopez plays as bad as he did last year, hasn’t really dawned on them, because, well, Willie HUSTLES! He gets his uniform DIRTY! He’s a GRITTY VETERAN WHO’S BEEN THROUGH WARS!

  21. mremis on March 12th, 2008 12:54 pm

    Its amazing the thought process going into that trade in the first place. What a terrible, terrible trade. Imagine having Soriano on the roster now and last year. Would solve so many problems.

    Bill Bavasi is the only person in the world who would have made that trade at the time.

  22. scott19 on March 12th, 2008 12:56 pm

    Yes…we all know how Willie is, of course, the SECOND COMING of Mark McLemore! :o

  23. bakomariner on March 12th, 2008 12:58 pm

    21- I’ve said this way too many times…the thought process of trading Soriano for Ramirez was NOT bad…they traded from a position of depth (Bullpen) for a position of weekness at the time (Rotation)…the EXECUTION of the trade was terrible…Ramirez was garbage and Bavasi got raped…but the reasoning behind the trade was sound…

  24. bakomariner on March 12th, 2008 12:59 pm

    23- “weakness”

  25. Gerald on March 12th, 2008 1:02 pm

    Baby steps to dump HoRam… Baby steps to dump Cairo… Baby steps to dump Willie…

    I think this guarantees Norton will be on the roster since it clears a spot on the 40-man. It also means Jimenez will probably make the club if they decide to have Ryan Rowland-Smith work on being a starter in Tacoma.

  26. DAMellen on March 12th, 2008 1:05 pm

    I don’t think they should be allowed to just dump him and pretend it never happened. I think someone should build a giant gold statue of Rafael kicking Horacio in the nuts and put it right outside Bill Bavasi’s window. I don’t want him to ever look out the window and see the ocean or birds again. [I'm going to leave the rest of your comment in place, but you know better than to say things like this]

  27. SpokaneMsFan on March 12th, 2008 1:10 pm

    Yay! It’s a baby step, but a step nonetheless.

  28. smb on March 12th, 2008 1:15 pm

    Like putting down a beloved old dog with terminal cancer, this is definitely bittersweet. Only HoRam wasn’t beloved and isn’t going to die, but watching him was a little bit like having terminal cancer.

    Also, Willie Bloomquist sucks.

  29. Manzanillos Cup on March 12th, 2008 1:22 pm

    Bad news – RA Dickey now has to place his own orders at Abuelos in Peoria.

    Good news – RA Dickey makes team

    /Mariners Nightly joke

  30. msb on March 12th, 2008 1:29 pm

    one of my favorite quotes from earlier in the spring:

    “Horacio Ramirez admits he had a tough time adjusting to the American League last season.

    “Could never really get into a good rhythm,” said Ramirez, who came to the Mariners in a trade with Atlanta. “Couldn’t get a good string of starts going.”"

  31. dlb on March 12th, 2008 1:43 pm

    Doesn’t Morse have more position versatility than Cairo. Morse can play OF, 3B, 1B and in a pinch SS. Cairo can play what SS, 2B? What does he give the M’s? Use Willie more if you need to, but Cairo gives you nothing that Morse can’t give you.

  32. Evan on March 12th, 2008 1:56 pm

    Anyone who can play shortstop can play pretty much anywhere else.

  33. Steve Nelson on March 12th, 2008 2:09 pm

    #32: Anyone who can play shortstop can play pretty much anywhere else.

    Like Morse, Jim Thome started his pro career as a shortstop. Does that mean Thome can play pretty much any position?

  34. Gomez on March 12th, 2008 2:12 pm

    “Morse/Thome can play shortstop,” is like saying I can play shortstop. In a wheelchair.

  35. msb on March 12th, 2008 2:18 pm

    ah, but Cairo is Clutch :)

  36. mln on March 12th, 2008 2:21 pm

    No need to worry about the back up shortstop position.

    Willie can play short … even while riding a pink pony. He’s that good.

  37. Mat on March 12th, 2008 2:37 pm

    Like Morse, Jim Thome started his pro career as a shortstop. Does that mean Thome can play pretty much any position?

    Based on the progression of comments, I’m pretty sure that Evan was suggesting that Cairo could play all of the positions that Morse could, and then some. So you might not need to invoke the Thome Defense.

  38. Spanky on March 12th, 2008 2:47 pm

    You know…I just have to scratch my head over this. It was just JANUARY that the M’s signed this guy to a one year contract for $2.75 Million. We all thought they were not going to offer him anything. Were they worried he was going to get scooped up by some team that wanted his skill set (throwing Left-handed BP)??? That was two months ago only to release him early in spring training?

    I know they only have to pay a fraction of his contract and it really comes down to a bag of peanuts for them. But what a waste! If only I could get them to sign my skillset and release me after just a few weeks!

  39. Wilder83 on March 12th, 2008 3:05 pm

    Bad news – RA Dickey now has to place his own orders at Abuelos in Peoria.

    Good news – RA Dickey makes team

    /Mariners Nightly joke

    Ah that would be hilarious, except HoRam doesn’t speak Spanish either. I think this should have been the first sign to Bavasi that HoRam was a fake.

  40. Carson on March 12th, 2008 3:19 pm

    38 – I imagine it went something like this.

    BB – “Come on, you’re MIRACLE MEL. Give it a whirl. It’s only money!”

    Fast forward two months.

    MS – “Well, Bill. Here’s the deal. If you hand me a bag of cow crap, the best miracle I can perform is turning it into fertilizer or pulling a really funny prank involving a paper bag and Old Man Smithers’ porch.”

    BB – “Thanks for trying!”

  41. xxtinynickxx on March 12th, 2008 3:26 pm

    DUMP SEXSON!

  42. lokiforever on March 12th, 2008 3:28 pm

    26 DAMellen

    Bavasi is not a moron. Berate the trade, which was a bad one, but personal attacks are unfair. Have you ever met the man?….I know, everyone is just venting, we got fleeced on that trade, but Bavasi is a stand-up guy with a lot more knowledge than any of us.

  43. marc w on March 12th, 2008 3:38 pm

    Look, we all love hyperbole, but c’mon – Morse would’ve been better than anyone Tampa Bay trotted out at SS last year, and may be close to Derek Jeter. He’s a push with Cairo.

    This is what’s known as damning with extremely faint praise, but my god.. he’s not Thome circa 2008 and he’s not Gomez in a wheelchair.

    Worrying that Morse isn’t a great defender for a 3rd option SS is *not much of a worry*. And given that neither he nor Cairo’s defense *at SS* is going to be THE factor that leads you to keep one or the other, I’d say Morse’s age and OF experience tip the scales in his favor.

    FWIW (probably not much) Morse rated rather well as a 3b in this study of minor league fielding.

  44. DAMellen on March 12th, 2008 3:43 pm

    That’s fair and I take it back. I’m sure he’s a very intelligent guy and I don’t doubt that he’s loads of fun at a party. Despite that, I think he has a few very odd ideas on how to build a winner and would prefer that he not be our GM. Also, I’m not sure what “knowledge” you’re referring to that he has so much of. If you’re talking about knowledge of how to put a strong club on the field, I’m not convinced he has more knowledge than any of us.

  45. galaxieboi on March 12th, 2008 3:45 pm

    Yeah, I thought we all agreed personal attacks like that are off. I…dislike, his management style but he seems like a smart enough fellow. And he say…“My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is `[expletive] David Samson,’ you shouldn’t say anything at all. So I’m not going to say anything at all.” Very nice.

  46. Jeff Nye on March 12th, 2008 3:46 pm

    Bavasi is a really nice guy who’s been generous enough to spend time with USSM readership at a few events, despite the fact that this site has generally been pretty critical of his work.

    Some of his moves (okay, a lot of his moves) have been questionable from a pure baseball sense, but by all accounts he’s a smart, stand-up guy.

    Thanks for posting the retraction, DAMellen. And guys, he’s apologized and taken it back, let’s move on.

  47. Manzanillos Cup on March 12th, 2008 3:59 pm

    Ah that would be hilarious, except HoRam doesn’t speak Spanish either.
    Man, I swear there was a segment on this on Mariners Nightly. Damn you Angie Mentink!!

  48. Evan on March 12th, 2008 4:00 pm

    Like Morse, Jim Thome started his pro career as a shortstop. Does that mean Thome can play pretty much any position?

    Can Jim Thome play shortstop? If not, my reasoning doesn’t apply to him.

    It doesn’t apply to Morse, either, because he also can’t play shortstop. But #31 argued that Morse could play a wider variety of positions than Cairo could, even though Cairo could play both 2B and SS. That suggsests to me that Cairo can play pretty much any position, so the argument in favour of Morse fails.

  49. DaveValleDrinkNight on March 12th, 2008 4:34 pm

    Yipppeeee!
    Now we’ve made room for the triumphant return of Bobby Ayala!

    Seriously though, I’m really hoping that Lowe makes a full recovery. He could actually make a big difference.

  50. JI on March 12th, 2008 4:37 pm

    Cairo has played pretty much everywhere in his career.

  51. davepaisley on March 12th, 2008 4:39 pm

    48 – Except that the practicality of playing OF is much different than the theory (see Morse’s initial conversion and some other guy last year who learned on the job…)

    The “if you can play SS you can play anywhere” theory is OK if you’re an athletic young pup with plenty of time to adjust to a new position. I don’t think it holds for a (relative) geezer like Cairo.

    Morse’s ability to play OF as well as infield positions is more useful, and Morse being the emergency 3rd option at SS is a lot more useful than Cairo being some theoretical 5th OF or backup at 3B.

  52. Bremerton guy on March 12th, 2008 4:53 pm

    #10 – Amaral hasn’t played for the Mariners since 1998. Bavasi didn’t have anything to do with him. Maybe you’re thinking of Carl Everett?

  53. DaveValleDrinkNight on March 12th, 2008 4:53 pm

    Morse is certainly making his case at the plate right now. He’s hitting .536 so far this Spring.

  54. Mat on March 12th, 2008 4:55 pm

    Cairo has played pretty much everywhere in his career.

    Specifically, he’s played every position except CF and C.

    Except that the practicality of playing OF is much different than the theory (see Morse’s initial conversion and some other guy last year who learned on the job…)

    Cairo first played the OF way back in 2001, so I would suggest that his “learning on the job” period is over.

    I’m not saying Cairo is necessarily a better choice than Morse, but let’s get our facts straight here. Cairo can play just as many positions as Morse can.

  55. terry on March 12th, 2008 5:21 pm

    Sunk cost or stunk cost? All kidding aside, I think one is easier to detect than the other…..

  56. Kazinski on March 12th, 2008 7:41 pm

    I think the bench is going to be Bloomquist, Cairo, Burke, Morse and possibly Reed or Norton. Bullpen: Putz, Rhodes, O’Flaherty, Morrow, Dickey, and Green, and possibly RR-Smith or Jake Woods. If Rhodes is healthy, and he looked good today, he is a lock. I think veteran grittiness will be a big factor, and a few more performances like today wouldn’t hurt. I think Morse is getting close to being a lock too, it’s not just his average, of course that’s a fluke, his ISO is around .375, that is a little harder to dismiss out of hand for a 6-5 player that hits to the opposite field as well as he does.

    The bullpen looks pretty strong, almost strong enough to leave Morrow at Tacoma if Lowe or Huber are healthy and look good. How was HoRam supposed to crack that pen?

    I’m not worried about Cairo being on the bench, its not like McLaren is going to try to make him into Mark McLemore, Mac isn’t the type to overuse his bench. Last year Broussard wasn’t even on a pace to get 200ab’s until he got 73 in September.

  57. joser on March 12th, 2008 10:48 pm

    You know…I just have to scratch my head over this. It was just JANUARY that the M’s signed this guy to a one year contract for $2.75 Million. We all thought they were not going to offer him anything.

    If the Bedard trade didn’t happen, and they weren’t able to scrape up anything else, HoRam was their (really bad) insurance. At 450K, that’s cheap insurance. Sure, not cheap to you or me, but they’re willing to throw twice that at Bloomquist. That means $900K is essentially throw-away money. HoRam cost half a Bloomquist. Cheap.

  58. currcoug on March 13th, 2008 10:40 am

    By all accounts, Bill Bavasi is a nice man, and observably intelligent. Standing up for his staff in Anaheim demonstrated courage and loyalty. However, something is clearly wrong with his abilities as GM of the Mariners.

    It is fair to say that the trades of Cabrera, Bazardo, Soriano, and the attempted trade of Balentien evidence poor judgment and/or poor talent evaluation. Moreover, the signing and subsequent release of Horramible is only the latest in a long line of costly mistakes. Bavasi wasted $ 1.2 million on Pokey Reese. He wasted $ 2.05 million on Reitsma, but continues to believe that Reitsma can be successful by giving him another shot this spring. Many of us believe that Bavasi is wasting another $ 850,000.00 on Cairo, and $ 3,000,000.00 on Wilkerson. An argument can also be made that Bavasi mishandled Jose Guillen’s option.

    Every GM makes bad trades, risky free agent signings, and the like. Unfortunately, Bavasi’s indefensible trade record, spotty free agent signings, combined with the repeated failure of the team on the field, warrant his removal as GM of the Mariners. From my perspective, however, nothing will change unless Lincoln and the current regime are removed as well. That might require the sale of the team.

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