McLaren and his not-exhausted six-man bullpen
McLaren’s carped a little about only having 11 pitchers on his staff. The issue, though, isn’t that the bullpen can’t handle the load, it’s that McLaren’s using his bullpen badly — there’s just no other way to put this.
| 3/31 | 4/1 | 4/2 | 4/3 | 4/4 | 4/5 | 4/6 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Baek | off | 18 | |||||
| Corcoran | off | 30 | 4 | ||||
| Green | 37 | 20 | off | 33 | |||
| Lowe | 3 | 6 | off | 12 | |||
| O’Flaherty | 17 | 14 | off | 29 | 15 | ||
| Putz | 19 | 30 | |||||
| Rowland-Smith | off | 7 |
He has two relievers well-suited to long relief, and he’s burning Green every other game. He’s got two lefties, and he’s not using them even in situations where there are several lefties due up and they could be neutralized by a left-handed reliever. He doesn’t seem to realize that Rowland-Smith is on the staff at all.
And then, because he knew I was working on this post, he threw O’Flaherty in the 9th against some lefties. It didn’t work out, but good for thinking in that direction for once. If only he’d realize there’s another left-handed pitcher that can share the workload. Or… well, there’s a lot of things I wish they’d realize.
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Pepe is an amazing switch hitter… could he also be an amazing switch pitcher?!?!?!?
Ever wanna strangle someone with your bare hands?
With Felix at only 97 pitches after 8 innings of shut-out ball, why was the bullpen even considered?
*Sigh*
Already some absolutely brutal losses early in this season. I really am going to have to take a break from watching these guys. So frustrating and infuritating. How long do you all give McLaren before he gets sacked? My guess is that he doesn’t make it to the All-Star break. Based on his lousy decision making in pulling Felix, I think we are in for one long, heartbreaking season. Just a crushing loss!!
how much of this is on McLaren and how much is on the much-heralded pitching coach?
i broke my shower head after this game. john mclaren is going to cost me a couple hundred bucks now.
This one is all on McLaren.
Felix gave the team exactly what it needed, and with Putz out it was a total no-brainer. The only way the Mariners were going to lose this game was if McLaren pulled Hernandez!
By the way, that isn’t second-guessing. I couldn’t believe it when I saw Hernandez was coming out, and I’m sure just about everybody felt the same way.
I’ll say it again: The only way the Mariners could lose Sunday was if McLaren took Hernandez out of the game.
In fact, I’m still in shock at this whole thing. I’ve posted before that I didn’t think McLaren was the best choice to manage the team….
But who could have dreamed he’d be this bad? I know it’s only six games, but McLaren has already set a bad tone with the club.
I think this may be another reason why I still don’t like the Bedard trade. We are now so dependent on having Putz healthy. When he’s out, McLaren is like a rudderless ship when it comes to the later innings.
Look, I’m as excited as anyone else when it’s Erik’s turn to pitch, but it just cost us too much. If we still had Sherrill, then this would not have happened.
You do have to love the fact he’s carrying another man on the bench instead of another reliever, and this extra man’s ass has yet to break contact with the pine.
> If we still had Sherrill, then this would not have happened.
If we still had Grover this would not have happened.
Watching the interview, you could clearly see he knew HE lost the game.
And further, this will just intensify MClaren’s preference for veterans, and his avoidance of talented young players.
And further, this will just intensify MClaren’s preference for veterans, and his avoidance of talented young players.
Great, that just makes this that much worse.
Mac is basically playing with 21 players. Cairo has not seen any game time. Jimerson has pinch-run once. And both Baek and 2R-S have pitched in a single game each, throwing a combined total of 25 pitches.
Don’t position players and pitchers need SOME use, in order to be effective when they’re called upon?
8. If we still had Soriano, this wouldn’t have happened either. Instead, the guy Bavasi traded for HoRam had a save today for the Braves against the Mets and Johan Santana.
Mac is a bad manager. That has been well established in the most objective ways. And he is predictable in his badness most of the time.
I have a different question though. Is there anything to the idea of “knowing your role”. Jeff Nelson went on and on last Friday about that. He said that when he platooned in that role with Arthur Rhodes he asked the manager that the role be given to Shiggi at the time.
Baseball players are the dumbest.
a little additional salt this week — every time I turn around in the kitchen, there is the smiling mug of Geroge, looking out from the April calendar page of the Mariners Care calendar.
Man. Serious heartbreaker today. You just knew that it wasn’t going to be as easy as Felix pitching a complete game shutout.
The question is, how many of these have to happen before the high-ups at the Mariners organization come to their senses? It’s not as if you can just keep chalking it up to bad luck when it happens year after year.
I guess the worst part is that Mac’s going to try to trade for another veteran reliever.
well, McLaren doesn’t actually have the power to trade for anyone.
looks like Texas is about to move into a tie with Oakland for 2nd place in the division, placing the M’s firmly on the bottom rung.
I am by no means a fan of Mac, but was pulling Felix at nearly 100 pitches when both Putz and Bedard are hurt a bad move? It is only the 6th game of the season, and remember, Felix did miss a month last year. How much more would we be killing Mac if he had left Felix in there and he had gotten hurt? We’d be crushing the guy. If we can’t count on the bullpen, then why do any of them have jobs?
It’s easy to sit in hindsight and say ‘Felix should have still been pitching!’ but let’s be realistic. We can’t count on our starters to go 9 innings every game, and the bullpen *has* to get work. We don’t know if Putz is going to come back when expected, and the guys in that pen need the work.
While it was indeed a crushing loss today, placing the blame on Mac for pulling Felix is misplaced. Put the blame on his mismanaging defensive replacements, on anything else, but to pull Felix in the 9th when he was at nearly 100 pitches was the right move.
I don’t like McLaren, but this was NOT his fault. Felix asked to come out. (Read Baker’s blog)
No it’s McLaren’s fault. IT’S ALL McLAREN’S FAULT.* He can be forgiven for pulling Felix but all his other moves are baffling– Not only was EOF pitching after having worked the previous night, but RRS has hardly worked AND is the much better pitcher, and doesn’t replace his horrendous fielders (Ibanez, Sexson), he continues to hit Sexson in the MOTO, and pull a bunch of dumb-ass hit and runs and ill-advised steals. Until he knocks off all this stupid bull***t every close loss is on his head as far as I am concerned.
*My GTE has not fully subsided.
In the KOMO post-game show, Dreyer said Felix told McLaren he was feeling a bit fatigued at the end of the 8th; she said it was probably due to his throw day was last Friday, in anticipation of a Monday start and that is probably why they pulled him.
It’s hard to imagine that the manager and the pitching coach don’t sit down before the pitchers even show up at the ballpark, to look at who’s available and in what circumstances to use them. Surely a simple chart like the one DMZ posted above is something the pitching coach comes to the meeting with…?
What this chart says to me is:
a) they’re being cautious with Lowe
b) they don’t have confidence in RRS
outside that it looks like a pretty balanced workload.
If they don’t have confidence in RRS for some reason, and Felix really asked out of the game, then I don’t see any other way to run the 9th inning (you could have replaced Raul, fine, but outside that…).
It’s the breaks of baseball – Soriano got the save for the Braves today, but basically because Teixeira gloved a ball that was ripped down the line with two men on base. If Lopez gets that grounder, there’s no blog rage looking to find an appropriate object.
Re #23
Wrong.
Wouldn’t that be really stupid if they’re only carrying 11 pitchers?
24.
Thanks; I see the errors of my ways.
Anyone care to explain why Ibanez and Sexson were still playing in the bottom of the 9th?
Don’t we have any players on the bench who are good fielders? (that’s a rhetorical question).
Fine I’ll do the long hand version:
Which is immaterial– outside of Ibanez playing left and batting third against lefties, Sexson hitting cleanup, and Vidro as our starting DH, we have a pretty good lineup.
This is wrong on so many levels. First how do you think those runners got on base to put Lopez in that situation? Why was the outfield in with two outs? If we’re going to chalk everything up to Shit Happens why even bother to analyze the games?
Even if the M’s win, or go to extra innings we still would be angry with the lack of defensive replacements, horrible roster construction, and McLaren being a slave to “roles” and “experience.” It’s not so much the losing as the continuing pattern of poor decisions that lead to the losses.
28: The question isn’t whether there are good fielders on the bench, but whether there are bench players who are improvements over horrendous players. You need three outs. Play the percentages.
JL
Besides replacing Ibanez, what do you do differently in the 9th inning?
I’m concerned. I’ve seen missing posters for a man named Ryan Rowland-Smith.
A couple things. First, Axtell, you almost had me with your logic that it is early in the season and we don’t want to wear Felix out, up until you said that he should come out at 100 pitches. 100 pitches for a starter is not too many, and I’ve worked high school freshman to that level without straining them. He could have started the inning at least, gone a max of 15 pitches, been pulled, and been no worse off and likely out of an inning and with a win.
In addition, Curt Schilling had some great thoughts on pitch counts on the Sons of Sam Horn site quite a while back, in which he talked about the strain of the pitches being more significant than the number. He said you can only “go to the well” once or twice a game, and the 2nd time typically means an early exit. Was Felix very strained this game? Didn’t appear to be. It seemed as “easy” a 97 pitches as you can get.
2nd, you don’t “work the bullpen” in a tight game when you need a win. You play to win. Even if you did decide to “work the bullpen” wouldn’t you use one of the numerous pitchers who did not pitch the night before and were fresh?
Okay, that being said, Felix’s request to go out is something to accept this early in the season. However while McLaren made the right move there, he is still mismanaging this team on multiple levels.
Finally JI, you are wrong if you think pitching coaches and managers do not keep track of pitchers with tools like spreadsheets and pitch graphs, and do not talk about decisions ahead of time. C’mon. You can be negative, but at least be realistic.
Good high school coaches like the ones I worked with do. I have to assume, despite the lack of logic in his sub patterns, that the Mariners do to. Using said charts are a different matter, as it appears all plans fall by the wayside under stress, when McLaren then goes back to tried and true “veteran grit” as his hope and salvation.
Which is immaterial– outside of Ibanez playing left and batting third against lefties, Sexson hitting cleanup, and Vidro as our starting DH, we have a pretty good lineup.
… and Wilkerson. ZiPS has Wilkerson projected as WORSE than Sexson.
Wait, that’s 44% of our lineup. So basically, except for the 4/9ths of our lineup that’s crap, it’s a good lineup?
Where did I say they didn’t?
I am aware of this phenomenon.
I assume you mean me?
Jimerson/Bloomquist in for Ibanez/Sexson, Wilk to first, RRS starts the inning (as he is currently our best reliever)– if he gets in trouble you go to Mark Lowe.
By no means does this guarantee victory, but it gives us our best shot.
Perhaps I misunderstood your comment toward Karen’s post. Perhaps you could clarify if I misrepresented you.
The post numbers have changed (that happens sometimes), or I just typed wrong.
Bottom line, we both agree McLaren is killing us. How an M’s fan could see anything else coming is beyond me. This team was designed to be an overpriced massive failure.
We are the NY Knicks/Washington Redskins of MLB. Only we’ve managed to wrestle mediocrity from the jaws of contention without having the salary cap as a crutch. No, our own inept management is a much greater crutch.
Maybe we can hire Isaiah Thomas to be our GM/Coach. It isn’t like we’d do much worse. Maybe he’d bring a fresh approach.
Interesting side thought out of that. Why do NFL and NBA teams have Coach/GM’s, but there are no manager/GM’s. Can it really be that difficult? Maybe we need to lure someone in to handle both jobs for us at once. Seems the sort of thing that Tony LaRussa would find intriguing.
Pretty hard for manager/GM in baseball with the schedule they work. NFL has a game a week, NBA has 2 or 2. MLB gets a 3 or so days off a month.
38: Because, generally speaking, that has failed more often than not. Though I’m sure there are a few examples of Coach/Manager-GM combos that have worked out, some ringing examples of less-than-desirable results I can think of in recent years have included Lou Piniella with the Yanks (late 80’s), Mike Keenan with the Canucks (late 90’s), and Mike Holmgren when he was wearing both hats a few years back with the Seahawks. (P.S.: There are probably other contributing factors to this as well, but remember how much the ‘Hawks improved on the field after Ferguson was brought in as GM and Mike H. was able to concentrate on the field rather than the FO?)
As JLC eludes to in #39, it’s very stressful in MLB to balance both of those jobs due to scheduling…but even in the NFL, NBA and NHL, I think it may be equally as stressful, since you’re saddled with both the day-to-day responsibilities of game management as well as having to focus more intensely on roster moves and such.
Not to mention, from the players’ standpoint, there’s always the fear of finding yourself off the team a lot quicker if for some reason you wind up in the coach’s proverbial “doghouse.” 😮
All off season long, I have been dreaming about a deal sending Richie elsewhere. It would be a win-win situation for both the team and Richie himself who has become his own worst enemy.
I couldn’t believe the M’s signed Wilkerson after checking on his K:AB ratio. We cannot afford another “fanner” in the lineup. Why didn’t we go after Shannon Stewart when he was available.
That’s probably because they looked at his OBP.
Strikeouts mean A WHOLE LOT LESS than avoiding outs in general.