Game 12, Angels at Mariners

DMZ · April 12, 2008 at 5:29 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Garland v Silva.

Vidro at #5? I have to say, for a guy whose strength is entirely in his average and walks, this seems weird to me. Are they swayed by his early power surge? Or is something else going on?

Anyway, go! Beat the Angels!


184 Responses to “Game 12, Angels at Mariners”

  1. HamNasty on April 12th, 2008 8:43 pm

    149- No, my argument earlier was that if your in the major leagues you know how take a proper route to a baseball and get a decent jump in most cases. I was told assuming major league baseball players know fundamental skills you learn in high school is not what this site is about.

  2. Jeff Nye on April 12th, 2008 8:43 pm

    You want positivity?


    Seriously, the whole “why are you all so negative” thing comes up about ten million times more often than Raul being slow.


  3. mr.smartypants on April 12th, 2008 8:45 pm

    Sigh, if you’re implying that people on this website aren’t excited to see the M’s beating the Angels, you’re a little late. But I think everyone is pretty happy to see them win today and yesterday, and especially to see everyone on the team get a hit.

  4. 23daysfordavis on April 12th, 2008 8:46 pm

    See Jeff, I don’t get this? Ponies? Is that some kind of slam? Please explain it to me because I clearly don’t get it!

  5. BringUpBalentien on April 12th, 2008 8:47 pm

    M’s Win! Finally….took Green awhile…but if I am correct, m’s are now in second, the tie being broken by the head to head record. M’s win!

  6. scott19 on April 12th, 2008 8:50 pm

    I’ll take a series win against the Halos any day.

  7. HamNasty on April 12th, 2008 8:50 pm

    Nothing better then a chance to sweep the Angels.

  8. 23daysfordavis on April 12th, 2008 8:53 pm

    153, when did I ever imply that? Please explain the pony thing to me and what it is supposed to imply?

  9. joser on April 12th, 2008 8:56 pm

    Sigh, if you’re implying that people on this website aren’t excited to see the M’s beating the Angels, you’re a little late.

    And slow.

  10. joser on April 12th, 2008 9:02 pm

    They had Rowland-Sm and SG up in the 8th.

    Then Silva gets through the 8th pretty quickly, so they sit both of them and they start warming up Mark Lowe.

    Then Raul’s blast takes away a save opportunity, so they sit Lowe and get Green up again.

    Mac DOES love his “roles” doesn’t he?

    Yes, he’s obsessed with it, and it’s the thing that’s pissing me off more than anything else about this team. If he has a management “philosophy” this is it. You don’t expect much imagination from a manager, but you don’t expect them to handcuff themselves this much. After the Baltimore debacle:

    “We’ve got versatility (everywhere),” McLaren said. “But right now it’s not doing us any good. We’ve got to wait for guys to find their roles. Right now, we’re doing the best we can. And it’s not working out.”

    You’re the manager. That means you manage. You don’t just sit back and wait for things to “work out.” Apparently McLaren only knows how to do one thing: slot guys into roles (which means any 3-year-old with a holes-and-pegs game is qualified to be a McLaren-level MLB manager). And you can only slot guys who have “found” a role into that role, not into any other, and you can’t slot them anywhere until they find that role. And they can’t find a role unless they play, but they can’t play unless they have a role. Have I got that right?

    This explains so much about the bench and bullpen.

  11. Terminator X on April 12th, 2008 9:20 pm

    149 – And MY argument earlier was that there are varying degrees of “proper routes” and “decent jumps”. Some players get better routes and better jumps than others. I’m no whiz on defensive knowledge on players, but everything I’ve read says that Raul gets poor jumps on balls, though I know nothing of his route running ability. All I’m saying is that there is more that goes into range factor than pure speed, which is pretty undeniable. Therefor, range factor alone does not prove whether or not a player is fast, because there are other factors that go into it as well.

    Yes, those are fundamental skills that people learn in high school, but some players are still better at them then others. It’s entirely possible that Raul is on the lower end of the spectrum of those as well. The logic of “he’s in the MLB, therefor he knows how to field” is comparable to “Vidro is one of only a dozen or so MLB players paid exclusively to hit, therefor he must be a good hitter”. No, not exactly the same, but it’s still poor form to make assumptions like that.

  12. HamNasty on April 12th, 2008 9:34 pm

    161- I agree there are a ton of factors and those factors vary. But I am stating my opinion on certain stats that will generally point me in the direction that Raul is slow. We all know W-L and ERA are awful stats, tons of factors and things can happen. But if you look at the leaders in ERA and W you get close to a list of top FIP, minus the unlucky pitchers. Since we do not have speed stats the best I can do is look at fielding, SBs, and use my eyes to guess. Is it perfect? Not even close. Is it good? Thats arguable, I would say its not that good but it is the best we can do to make informed opinions.

    I understand your argument completely about how it is just an assumption. But I am using multiple sources of information and making the best guess I can. I would say that is much better then just guessing from no information.

  13. Typical Idiot Fan on April 12th, 2008 9:41 pm

    I’d just like to see a few more positive things around here. That’s two pretty great games played against the Angels.

    Why’s it a problem to maintain our focus on our weaknesses? If we sit back and accept them because of some flash in the pan results, then they’ll eventually catch up with us (and already have in some circumstnaces).

    Strive to improve, always.

  14. Jake N. on April 12th, 2008 9:58 pm

    Do not look now but Sexon is hitting .244… If Ichiro gets into a grove with the Middle raking the ball the way they are, we will have an offense!
    Anyone know what Bedard’s Numbers are like verses the Angels. Would be comforting to go to bed tonight knowing he was like 6 and 0 with a 0.66 era, I know wishfull thinking.

  15. MrIncognito on April 12th, 2008 10:21 pm

    Maybe instead of agreeing that Raul is slow, we can all agree that he is bad at all skills related to speed, such as fielding, base-running, and stealing bases.

  16. shortbus on April 12th, 2008 10:28 pm

    Raul is fueled by your derision. The more you hate, the farther he hits the ball.

    As to DMZ’s comment about Vidro hitting fifth. I like him there more than in the 2 hole. Hitting fifth he’s more likely to come up with a guy on second or third and two outs, so his high singles, high DP schtick works. Having him come up after Ichiro hits a leadoff single makes Vidro’s no-power, high ground ball tendency bad news.

  17. Rick L on April 12th, 2008 10:33 pm

    Raul’s OPS is 1.196 after tonight’s game. That is pretty damn good, small sample size notwithstanding. He is a competent fielder if he can get to the ball. Since he is not that fast (although I would put money on him to win a race against Vidro, and Sexson) I think he would be one of the best DH’s in the league.

  18. shortbus on April 12th, 2008 10:43 pm

    Small sample size + early season stats = On Pace For! Raul is On Pace For 67.5 Home Runs!!

    Seriously, though, the most amazing stat from tonight’s game is that Silva gave up 11 hits and a walk and only three runs. That’s pure luck. Combined with Kotchman’s 1 HR, 1 2B performance should make us very wary when left handers face Silva at Safeco. As predicted by this blog’s authors when he was signed…Silva will have trouble with left handers at home.

  19. joser on April 12th, 2008 10:57 pm

    Anyone know what Bedard’s Numbers are like verses the Angels. Would be comforting to go to bed tonight knowing he was like 6 and 0 with a 0.66 era

    What, because the number of the beast is important to you? (How does almost ten times your wish sound?) ERA is a team stat anyway and he’s on another team (and the Angels have changed a couple of key guys too). I mean, his career ERA in Safeco is 5.22 (all of 5 games). But hey, it’s not like these are hard to look up:
    vs ANA: (1-3) in 5 starts, 27.2 IP, 6.18 ERA, 20 K, 14 BB, 2 HR, .376 BAbip

    Among Angels notables, Torii Hunter has a career 1.307 OPS against him (19ABs), Garret Anderson .875 (16ABs), and Vladimir Guerrero 1.302 (15ABs).

    So no, if you’re looking for something to encourage your wishful thinking, the numbers are not for you.

    On the other hand, he’s in a different, more pitcher-friendly park, with a different team fielding and batting, and the Angels don’t seem to be quite what they were last year (at least, not yet). Unfortunately, it looks like they get K-Rod back for Sunday so let’s hope the M’s continue to score early and stay ahead.

  20. housedjbo on April 12th, 2008 11:05 pm

    Good thing Norton was there, we might have been in deep trouble were it not for Norton.

  21. ProdigalReality on April 12th, 2008 11:12 pm

    Raul once ran a 40. Coaches decided to use a sun dial. He ran out of time.

  22. msb on April 12th, 2008 11:23 pm

    What, because the number of the beast is important to you?

    pshaw. everyone knows that they got the number wrong (which has got to be kind of embarrassing if, say, you had it tattooed on your forehead in an attempt to look really evil)

    If Ichiro gets into a grove with the Middle

    is that some sort of Lord of the Rings/Entish kinda thing?

  23. jspektor on April 13th, 2008 1:16 am

    go m’s … angels look horrible

    lets go bedard

  24. Jake N. on April 13th, 2008 6:37 am

    [coherent thought and communication is not as hard as you make it out to be]

  25. msb on April 13th, 2008 8:13 am

    Would love to see Seattle rape there bull pen and send them out wounded.

    you want them to turn the bullpen into a forage crop for sheep and hogs?

  26. jlc on April 13th, 2008 9:09 am

    [coherent thought and communication is not as hard as you make it out to be]

    If only that were true where I work.

  27. djw on April 13th, 2008 9:25 am

    He is a competent fielder if he can get to the ball.

    Isn’t this a clever way of saying something that sounds nice but doesn’t actually contradict the claim that he’s one of the worst defensive outfielders in the league?

  28. mw3 on April 13th, 2008 9:26 am


  29. mw3 on April 13th, 2008 9:27 am

    175-Also classic.

  30. BurkeForPres on April 13th, 2008 9:57 am

    99, I know this is a day late, but I haven’t laughed so hard all weekend. Thank you for that.

  31. msb on April 13th, 2008 11:05 am

    hey– the Old Man is pitching on TBS. it is still wired to see non-Braves games over there.

  32. msb on April 13th, 2008 11:08 am

    um. wierd. nobody looks particularly wired.

    although kindly Uncle Dan Haren giving moral support to the little lad from the Biys & Girls club is kind of … wiredly wierd.

  33. joser on April 13th, 2008 12:05 pm

    Well, if those matchup numbers I posted worried you, there’s good news:

    No Bedard today (same hip inflamation)

    Cha Seung Baek gets the start.

    Also: Cairo at 3rd (Beltre has a sore leg), Morse in right field, Burke catching.

    My prediction of 180IP for Bedard this year is starting to look high….

  34. joser on April 13th, 2008 12:16 pm

    Hey, look:
    Bedard vs ANA: (1-3) in 5 starts, 27.2 IP, 6.18 ERA, 20 K, 14 BB, 2 HR, .376 BAbip
    Baek vs ANA: (0-2) in 2 starts (4 games), 16 IP, 4.41 ERA, 9 K, 6 BB, 1 HR, .283 BAbip

    It’s an upgrade! 😉

    vs Baek — Vlad 1.000 OPS (10 PA), Garret Anderson 1.850 (5 PA), Casey Kotchman .858 (7 PA)

    Yay for small sample sizes 🙂

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