M’s Extend Johjima
Well, this is a bit surprising – the M’s have locked Kenji Johjima up through the 2011 season. No financial details to report, but I was told that this was “a good deal” for the M’s. Considering that Johjima took less money to play in Seattle initially, it’s not a huge surprise that he’d take a below market deal to stick around.
Despite his early struggles, he’s still an above average catcher right now, but I do wonder how much he’ll have left to contribute beyond 2008. Signing him through his age 35 season is a classic M’s move, as they consistently show willingness to have bad long term contracts in exchange for some short term rewards.
The bigger news is that this almost certainly means that Jeff Clement’s days behind the plate are numbered. The M’s wouldn’t have extended Johjima if they were optimistic that Clement was anywhere close to being ready (in their opinion) to be behind the plate regularly. Johjima’s extension means Clement’s going to end up at 1B or DH, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the organization start trying him out at first base in Tacoma in the not too distant future.
This team defies logic. Why groom Clement to be a catcher and then block his path? Whatever, trade him for a reliever and be done with it.
I’ve said it before, no matter how much sense it makes this team will never willingly cut a productive veteran until after the go over The Cliff (and then some).
My initial reaction is Noooooooooooo, but admittedly, I don’t know enough details about the deal to really say. I also don’t know if Clement’s defense is really so bad that it’s time to give up on him as a Catcher.
In any case, isn’t it strange to do this now, when Kenji is having some issues that might or might not be signs of showing his age? I know, small sample size, etc., etc., but this is a 32-year old catcher we’re talking about. The cliff tends to come early and suddenly with them.
What a joke. Why have the #1 catching prospect in baseball and extend Joh for 3 more years? Plus I guarantee they’ll keep Clement at C, which means this makes even less sense.
Good signing. Safeco Field is a perfect fit for a dead pull right handed hitter.
I don’t get it.
Ditto – without seeing the terms, it’s hard for me to have an opinion on it.
The fact that it happens now, with Johjima struggling, suggests to me that the Mariners had given a standing lowball offer, and Johjima finally accepted it.
If the number is reasonable, I’m ok with it. It gives some continuity for Felix.
And I don’t know if this signals the end of Clement as catcher of the future. Catchers often platoon as they age. Perhaps next year Clement platoons at catcher and 1b/DH. Burke is of course the loser in that scenario.
Seems like Clement is taking over for Sexson in 09′.
Regardless of the terms, why now? Is Clement that bad behind the plate that he must be moved posthaste? Why not wait until at least mid-season to make that decision on Clement?
I thought you pretty much never see catchers in that type of role – you don’t want both #1 and #2 catchers on the field at the same time in case one gets hurt. Is that true?
I wouldn’t imagine we’ll see him at 1B but I could see him as the everyday DH pretty soon. I haven’t yet seen any indication that the team sees a defensive shortcoming either in LF or at 1B, so I’m not sure why that would change now.
Just trade Clement for Brian Fuentes and get it over with.
So did anyone read that article on the Tacoma Rainers website about Clement being ready to go up to the mariners. My favorite part is…
Couple of ideas:
Clement’s OPS is over 1.000 in AAA, perhaps they’d like to bring him up sooner rather than later as a DH. In the meantime, moving him up to the bigs would end his career at catcher at least for now, at which point it wouldn’t be too unreasonable to ensure that you have a set presence behind the plate.
The other plausible scenario mentioned by someone else was that Johjima had a standing low-ball offer in place and decided to take the M’s up on it.
Backing Kenji after his horrid April is pretty amazing but is truely the Mariners fashion.
#8
Although it seems strange to lock up so much money in the later years of a catcher’s career…I don’t think this is the end for Clement the catcher. I think it is the end of Burke’s Mariner days. Next year, Clement comes up and is the backup with a chance to earn more playing time. Johjima and Clement will battle for time over the next three years and with the chance to platoon (okay snicker all you like now) righty/lefty.
Well according to this Clement is ready to be the catcher… now that won’t happen.
hmm. on the same day that McGrath quotes Roger Hansen on the subject of Clement:
“Jeff’s real close, and I mean real close, if not ready,” said Hansen. “He can be really good, probably one of the best out there. That’s where he’s headed now. He can be easily better than Jason Varitek, and that’s easy for me to say, because I worked with Jason when he was with our organization. I had Chris Widger, too, and he was really good. But Jeff should be head and shoulders above either of those guys.”
This Johjima extension can only mean one thing: A gross Ibanez extension must be on the way…
With his good start, one can only imagine what that contract’s gonna be…
I love Kenji, but I was really hoping we’d keeop him for his three years and then let him go, ahving taken his most productive major league seasons, used them up, and then moved on.
But no, instead we’ve decided to do EXACTLY WHAT WE ALWAYS DO.
This is really frustrating.
hmmm. wonder what day I took in the pool ….
I was about to say: Clement’s the lead story in the Trib sports section today, but CaptainPoopy and msb beat me to it.
So, Dave, our resident expert on the Mariner system, is Clement as good as he’s showing right now, or is he playing over his head?
I certainly hope the usually compliant Seattle media actually gets Bavasi to answer the obvious questions.
This just in… Bavasi to make Raul an offer that exceeds ARod’s annual salary.
Any chase the Johjima and Clement would split the position?
I’m not sold that this extension is the ‘End For Clement At C’. I still believe there’s a solid chance that Kenji is backing-up Clement in 2 years.
Wow. That’s it. Wow.
No, seriously, if there isn’t some kind of plan to get some productive offensive players next year (so much for Teixiera), then this team is going to continue to suck. Kenji isn’t terrible at C, but the real issue here, as everyone has identified, is Clement. It would be great to have above-average offense out of an in-house C and be able to sign a good 1B as well. Now, we either scrap Clement for another year or let him platoon with a (soon to be announced) overpaid C in Kenji. Sigh.
Teixiera would have never come here. He’s going to Baltimore or NY or Boston. He’s an east-coaster and will stay over there.
If the extension is reasonable enough, I guess he could transition to a backup role if Clement can truly handle the position full time. But “reasonable” would be like half of the value of his current deal so little chance that’s the case.
Looking for a silver lining here…
Rosenthal doesn’t hold back:
This could prove to be the biggest blunder yet from Bill Bavasi, which is really saying something. Johjima has been just terrible at the plate, and has looked at least as bad as the numbers (.200/.268/.246) suggest. Signing him through his age-35 season has the potential for disaster.
What’s with the sudden Teixiera obsession? Have you actually looked at his stats so far this year? In the NL? 1B/DH is a waste of free agent dollars anyway.
I think Rosenthal hasn’t followed the M’s if he thinks this is the worst deal for the Bavasi era.
Given some OTHER numbers that people have quoted, I don’t buy that Kenji “has looked at least as bad as the numbers suggest.” LD% the same, BABIP way down….that’s not bad.
6 – Jeff
This is so disheartening … although I agree his April is not indicative of his career.
Anyone got a bottle of Whiskey and a hand gun? What IS THIS ORGANIZATION DOING??!?!?!?!?
Man, you guys really hate this. I’m not defending it, but the vitriol is a bit of an overreaction. It’s not a good move, but this is much more like signing Miguel Batista (useful, potentially overpaid, could have been replaced cheaper) than trading for Vidro or signing Sexson.
Not defending the move, but it’s not as bad as you all are making it out to be.
29 –
Where did Rosenthal say that? That language is nowhere to be found in the article I’m reading.
No kidding. I’m tepid on this, but I don’t think this is a blunder of epic proportions. Silva and Vidro are WAYYYYYY worse.
Yeah, it’s definitely not the end of the world; I just don’t understand the thinking, nor do I understand why they see RIGHT NOW as the time to do it.
I actually like Kenji and hope not too much of the overreaction is due to his current struggles; it’s just puzzling that they are doing this now with Clement waiting in the wings.
It’d make much more sense to let them battle it out in spring training next year.
I guess the way this makes the most sense is them wanting to get Clement in at 1B or DH as soon as possible, and this clears the way for them to do that without people worrying about the team’s future at the catching position?
It still doesn’t make a LOT of sense when viewed that way, but at least it makes slightly more sense.
and why should a Georgia Tech boy leave the NL & the Braves if they’d shell out the money he (and Boras) want?
One thing that I think this move shows is that Vidro is going to be long gone, and Clement is the DH soon.
34
Dave what do you think the contract was priced at?
I agree with Dave. If the dollars are not huge, then it doesn’t hamstring the M’s.
I also do not feel that this blocks Clement from catching in the future. He might do a lot of DHing and 1Bing, but I would also expect him to catch on an off. By 2010 or ‘11, he might be the full time catcher, with Joh as a backup if the M’s find quality bats to play 1B and DH.
Hope, hope, hope.
Or, at least, Vidro on the bench. With sunk costs, I don’t mind him there as a PH.
I think everyone’s just tired of their team being overrun with mediocre veterans, while the org desperately tries to flip it’s better prospects for middle relievers.
I’m tired of having a roster with very little upside.
Shouldn’t Norton get the boot? I’d rather have Vidro on the bench as a PH. Regardless, there’s no reason Clement should be in Tacoma anymore.
Whaaa? Really. So does this cement clement into the dh role? I’ll be curious to hear the spin that Bavasi’s going to lay on us. Just so illogical…. So i pose a serious question: Do the M’s have the worst front office in the game?
Tee hee!
For once, Jeff, I agree with you.
I’m not opposed to this if it perhaps sets a series of moves in motion. Hell, if it’s cheap I’m not opposed to it at all.
And, just because Joh is signed to an extension doesn’t make it gospel that he’s the starting catcher for three more years. Given the M’s love of vets you know Rob Johnson and Clement weren’t gonna be sharing the catching duties, right?
That’s an amazing comparison gap between Jason Varitek and Chris Widger!
Maybe I’m just speaking for myself here, but it seems like the frustration with this contract is cumulative, which might account for the vitriol rising above the level of reasonable expectation/response to the deal in isolation.
Do we as a fan base consistently overrate the products of our farm system? Probably. But how many times will the pattern repeat, of the Mariners signing veterans to block presumably capable young replacements? It’s frustrating to consider that there might be no end in sight.
While I can see the value in signing a catcher with hitting skills to a below-market contract (assuming it is that), it’s nevertheless the sort of move that brings out the Braves fan in me.
43 –
I would doubt they would have Clement DH and learn 1B to get him on the lineup this year and next, and then revert him back to C in ‘10. When he comes up, I believe it will either be as a C – full time – or as something else, with no crossover between the two.
Also, I agree that this deal is not awful, in isolation. But some see it as continuation of a larger, more harmful trend of needlessly locking up veterans past the point of their best utility. Why not just a 2 year deal for Johjima? Or even 1 + option year? Especially if he’ll be a backup as soon as ‘09.
I actually don’t mind this move, assuming (hoping?) the FO makes the right moves next. Up to this point, our situation has been a little like the Saltalamacchia situation in Texas. They’ve got a young, hitting C in the minors while Laird is up in the majors, handling the staff (gotta love the way that reads.) I think that Joh>Laird and given the experience, I think Salty is closer to an everyday catcher than Clement. Laird is on a one year deal through the 08 season. Add that up, and it makes some sense to sign a catcher that’s better than Laird to a 3 year deal to help ease the transition for Clement, who’s further away than Salty.
I like the idea of having Clement’s bat up here now, but if there is a better option to fill the DH slot (i.e. sign a table setting LF to a one year deal and move Raul to DH, like many here have advocated), then it doesn’t hurt us to keep Clement in the minors one more year, then bring him up next year after Burke’s deal expires.
That way, we’ve got a three year time period to ease from Johjima to Clement, and we don’t start his arbitration clock till next year.
Bah. No one has money details yet.
The drastic chasm between AAA catcher and Major League catcher is what is holding Clement in Tacoma. Not Joh or Burke. Up to this year he was “serviceable” behind the plate…unlike some of the other positions where you can hide defensive liability to a certain extent (read Manny Ramirez here) you can’t at catcher. The Ms haven’t had a Bench/Piazza/Varitek (ummm….yeah, I know) catcher and are salivating, I’m sure. Look to 2008 to be a lost year…unfortunately I agree the current admin won’t see the glaring liabilities. Tired of seeing the middle infielders take lazy routes to balls up the middle…was wonderful to watch Brian Roberts this week…one of my favorites.
Without the financial terms displayed I think people are being a little too quick to judge this. Don’t the M’s have a pretty good catcher in A ball.
Maybe the team sees him as the true replacement and not Clement. Perhaps there is another shoe to drop. I will not overreact just because he is resigned for three years. I need details of the deal and will give the team some time to see if there is another move (Clement trade?).
The frustration, for me, comes from hoping that they were going to deal Kenji at the deadline for prospects if they weren’t in contention, then bring up Clement for good.
Now, they have an aging catcher locked in – regardless of the price – decreasing the true value of a decent offensive catcher by moving him to another position.
But I also had hoped that they were posturing about Morrow in the Bedard deal, and that they would “give in” and replace Jones at the end. My hopes obviously aren’t very realistic, so I shouldn’t be surprised.
Now, the only question seems to be when the Vidro and Sexson extensions are coming.
are Joh’s hitting skills such that he could be the one to move to 1st or DH in a year or two>
Anyone have a guess on the numbers? I’m thinking 3/$21M
I have irrational Kenji love but this is a bit of a head scratcher. I think Kenji will bounce back but as someone mentioned above Safeco and Kenji do not play well together. I was hoping he’d get a one year extension with an option for 2010. I envisioned ‘09 with Kenji as the #1 and Clement #2 learning the role at the majors. And the way the M’s use their bench why not keep Burke as a #3 so Clement can DH when he’s not behind the plate?
Strange times indeed. This site should have a doomsday clock counting down the AB’s till Vidro’s option vests.
No one here or at just about any other baseball blog or message board expects Bavasi to do anything but the inexplicable, like trade Clement for another RH “professional hitter” (i.e., something the team obviously doesn’t need).
But maybe he’ll surprise all of us and dump Vidro altogether long before the option kicks in, and Mac works out something sensible with whatever “hot hand” exists in the Sexson/Ibanez/Johjima/Burke/Clement mix — if Jeff Clement is brought up when Vidro’s dumped, that is.
I’m going nuts…I’m pessimistic in the first sentence and optimistic in the next…
The M’s have a recent history of busts at C. They probably want extra insurance in case Clement doesn’t work out.
Especially with Mac as the skipper – he’s really reluctant to commit his backup catcher on any given day. I suspect this tendency got reinforced by the recent game where Burke started and Kenji came in for him (I forget if Burke was pinch hit or pinch ran for) and Joh promply got nailed by a foul ball.
But, three catchers wouldn’t be a total waste, if Clement could play 1B when he wasn’t catching. Having Joh, Clement and Burke on the roster wouldn’t be any worse than having Joh, Burke and Cairo, or Joh, Burke and Vidro.
Unfortunatley, Clement and Ibanez would be an ill-suited 1B or DH platoon.
There’s really no reason to be pessimistic right now – we don’t know the numbers, and many scenarios have been outlined that could make the deal a reasonable investment.
Yeah. Let’s wait for the numbers AND THEN get wailin’!
I’m taking a WAG and saying…3/$15M.
A reasonable deal for a catcher of Kenji’s caliber would be 3/$12M. Double that, and that’s where Bavasi’s deal will be. 3/$24M is my prediction.
Seriously – at slightly less than his current deal – 3 years/$14-15MM, let’s say – it really isn’t that bad. Especially if Clement can provide a league-average bat and passable defense during his pre-arb years.
To me it’s the third year more than the total dollars that could hurt.
yup. for a little perspective on the day, they buried John Marzano this morning.
Does Yamauchi still have any influence on a decision like this? Does Ichiro?
I am asking a question, not looking for a beating please.
Oh, you know that’s coming for sure. If we are still within “striking distance” of the Angels at the deadline, there will be plenty of Gas Cans to be had.
The lack of patience with Jason Varitek, and subsequent trade for a horrible “closer”, cost the M’s for the better part of this decade. When I saw the news I screamed no, because while I know bringing up Clement to catch now will come with the cost of two or three years of growing pains. At the end of those years Clement could be one of the best two or three catchers in the bigs, glove included. Now it is only a matter of time before he’s traded for Jason Bay or Griffey or something else really stupid and M’s fans get to watch another team win two world series with our catcher.
So, everyone who had “Kenji extended before Raul is” in the deadpool, what do they win?
Yes please…
I’m on the “Wait and see the deal” boat. Kenji’s far from a horrible catcher, and could potentially help mentor Clement in the role.
When he signed initially, Johjima said that Ichiro didn’t directly affect his decision, though he acknowledged that Ichiro helped make Seattle a good environment for Japanese players. Yamauchi is supposed to have endorsed Johjima the first time around, and a good guess is that he would be happy with the extension.
Why bother even leaving Clement in AAA? If his bat is ready, and it appears it is, get him up here NOW!
Matthew at LL and THT makes a good point. If the M’s had let Kenji go after this year he’d likely be a Type A free agent. Of course, the M’s demonstrated this offseason they aren’t interested in receiving compensation for players…
Does anyone know, precisely, the number of ABs at which Vidro vests for next year?
I don’t think they’ve made that information public, at least I can’t find anything on it at Cot’s. I don’t think they made Everett’s vesting number public at the time, either.
I think I’ve seen guesses at somewhere around 400, though.
To me, this signing actually smacks of something else — could it be that they think Kenji is struggling under the pressure of his contract year?
Of course, signing him to a three-year extension will solve that!
Yes, and the bat is all there is to being a ball player now, isn’t it?
DH.
If you’re a DH.
If, as is speculated above, the dollars are below-market and if Kenji were to get over his struggles and become an at-least league average catcher, would the contract not then become attractive on the trade market given the relative rarity of reasonably-priced league-average catchers?
You don’t draft a DH at #3.
You might draft a catcher, but not a DH…
Did Groz (950 kjr host) just call johjima a professional hitter? That phrase is like a virus.
You people are forgetting that we could still have Clement as catcher and for those pitchers who don’t want Kenji behind the plate because of the language barrier (like Moyer), they could go with Clement as their personal catcher and you could keep Kenji’s bat in the lineup as DH.
If anything having both Clement and Kenji split time behind the plate is going to help more good pitchers come here because that option will be there of having either Kenji back them up because of his experience or Clement because of his better English speaking abilities (and if Kenji can speak fluent English, you can correct me on that).
So for the love of pete, please stop treating this like it is the end of the world for those of you that are.
I think we all knew this was coming and certainly we know Kenji is better than how he’s been doing lately. I mean, do you honestly think he’ll hit .200 all year? Plus, most of us probably saw this coming from a mile away. And plus, you don’t become a crappy player just because you reach a certain age, it is different for everybody.
Now if the Mariners sign Raul Ibanez to an extension for a lot of money for the purpose of being an everyday outfielder (aside from being a decent #3 or #5 hitter) instead of being a first baseman/DH (but mainly a first baseman), then you can really accuse them of “veteran entitlement” and stupidity. But until then, please keep it down. It was an ok move, and if it doesn’t look good now, it probably will at some point.
Clement’s value just went down. His bat is much less valuable as a 1B or DH. This signing makes the team worse for the next three years.
86- Just like you don’t draft a relief pitcher at #5?
Also, 75-might Burke be a better choice to mentor Clement, seeing as Burke has much American Baseball experience, and -I don’t know- SPEAKS ENGLISH? or is the problem that now they will get rid of Burke?
All we’re hearing is that Clement is ready to go at catcher, both offensively and defensively.
Yeah, Bavasi is all about professional hitters. I think the phrase basically means “he’s not that good, but he used to be good, and he knows what he’s doing, he’s just not that good.”
Kenji speaks adequate English.
Wow, I hope in two years we aren’t saying that the M’s spent a #3 overall pick on a DH, and a #5 overall pick on a middle reliever.
I think JM Hawkins was on to something. Kenji is Clement insurance. If Clement works out as a C then Kenji is an asset that can either be played (as a backup) or traded. If Clement’s defense turns out to be less than MLB quality, the Ms still have Kenji and then (and only then) Clement moves to 1B/DH. The Clement as C trial can begin soon, as far as I am concerned.
My biggest fear isn’t that Clement’s days as a C are numbered. My biggest fear is that the Kenji extension makes Clement trade bait, and we’ll trade him to someone to fill one of our “needs”. The greatest thing other team’s GM’s hear when they pick up the phone: “Hi, this is Bill Bavasi, and I want to talk trade.”
#93: Gotcha, fair or not though, I’d be willing to bet though there are free agent pitchers who won’t consider Seattle who won’t sign with us just because they preceive that maybe Kenji’s English is a problem.
Now obviously we know in Seattle that Kenji’s been adequate for us even with the language barriers that he’s had in the past and maybe still has now, but who knows, maybe some pitchers don’t quite think that when they are in free agency and don’t know any better.
But either way, there are certain pitchers who will only catch certain catchers in any rotation which is why it is good to see that the Mariners will have very shortly two adequate big league backstops and we play in the American League with the DH so that we don’t have to take a decent bat out of a lineup when pitchers have their freedom of choice of who they want behind the plate.
Never a good sign when fans of your team thinks half the roster should be turned into 1B/DH players. I pine for some athleticism on this team. Just to once say, “Wow, our DH would make a fine 3B if need be.”
I don’t usually try to be the glass half full guy but here’s a pony inspired theory. The Ms really love Clement as a catcher but they’ve come to the conclusion based on scouting he needs another year to devolop. So ‘09 in Tacoma becoming the best catcher they can get him to at the AAA level. Then he becomes the backup catcher/part time 1st Base/DH in ‘10. ‘11 he takes over the starter role, and we still have Joh around as a more than experienced backup, who’s bat is probably not what it is today, but really knows how to call a game. (ala Pat Borders ‘05)
Living in Florida, I have never seen Clement play. Would a move to third or a corner outfield be something feasible?
100 – NO.
I think the only issue I have with extending Johjima is that with Bavasi, he may now feel like he can make a move and package Clement with a bunch of other prospects to grossly over pay for a player.
I honestly don’t hate Johjima or this deal, just hate what it could potentially means in terms of what they do with Clement.
I guess they could possibly reduce Kenji’s play time over the next couple of years by splitting it with Clement more and more as time goes on and having them both share time at DH also, but that doesn’t really make sense.
uh, yeah. like that.
fwiw, Moyer’s alleged problems with Joh were not communication, but that Joh was still in a learning curve when they worked together.
Bavasi was just on on KJR & said, when asked about Clement, started to say something that sounded like ‘Joh knows Jeff is there’, stopped and then said, (paraphrasing here) ‘this is a contract, not a line-up– it is Joh’s job to keep Jeff back, and Jeff’s job to push Joh aside.’
he also stressed that they like Jeff as a catcher, and only if they had to get his bat in the line-up would they ‘expose’ him to another position; and that he is not going to the outfiled if they do.
At least Kenji had an opposite field base hit in his last AB last night – I don’t think I have seen him go ‘oppo’ since he’s been a Mariner.
The best scenario is that Kenji now breaks out of his slump, and we can trade him, not Clement, for an actual major league corner outfield with legs.
wasn’t his first home run, in his first MLB game to the opposite field?
Good, another reason to keep Kenji then. Most FA pitcher signings are bad ideas. Of course, you;ve got to wonder if the “poor English” argument passes the credibility test. I mean, it would explain why there are no Latin catchers in the league, wouldn’t it.
107 – I remember it being off Lackey to Left Field, but that’s what I remember.
I don’t really have a problem with this. Kenji isn’t a .500 OPS hitter whatever he’s doing right now, and it makes sense at catcher to have a long-term plan for the changing of the guard. You work Clement in, and work Kenji out, over a few years, with plenty of slack on either side. Catcher isn’t like the other positions, where you (ideally) just lock a guy in and stop worrying about it for a while.
This doesn’t change my assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of this team one iota. We still have no DH, no 1B, and only 1.5 outfielders — THAT’S what I’m worried about. Two corner outfielders who can hit and play defense — come ON, that’s the easiest thing in the world to find, isn’t it? Isn’t it?
Nope. A DH who can hit is easier to find…
111- And yet we are still forced to sit through Vidro at-bats…
it’s my dream that Sexson hits well enough on the road (since he has spooked himslef at home) that someone takes a flyer on him at the deadline.
it’s a dream, I know.
I think part of the angst (over and above this being the last straw in a long string of them for some people, and the genuine concern about aging catchers) is that the next new shiny thing is always more alluring. We tend to overrate the kids in the minors, whereas we know what we have on the team that we see every day. So Clement is automatically better than Kenji in every way (just as Morse and Reed and Wlad and even AJ kept getting better in people’s minds the longer they were “held back” in the minors).
As far as mentoring goes, I suspect at this point Clement may learn more sitting beside JJ and Stottlemyer in the dugout during a game than he will from doing drills with Kenji.
114 – Yeah, but you never know what you got till you actually give them a shot to play and with this M’s team they tend to favor sticking through with veterans who obviously aren’t getting better as they age.
115 – True, but I think Kenji’s catching definitely will improve…it is only his 3rd year catching in the States.
Bavasi and McLaren’s philosophy on team makeup is what it is, so this move was indeed to be expected.
Meanwhile, Arizona is winning with a rebuilt, youthful roster, skippered by Bob Melvin. Moreover, the M’s are currently looking up at the youthful, rebuilding A’s, whose starting catcher, Kurt Suzuki, is 24 years old. The Angels’ catchers are 25 and 26.
Rotoworld is saying 3 yrs, 24 million.
Can we just trade Clement for LaPorta now so we can actually have a first baseman if we’re not going to use Clement at catcher?!
3 years, $24 million? For his age 33-35 seasons?
Um, wow. That’s not backup catcher money. Maybe they aren’t planning to keep Clement behind the plate.
Do we know if all 3 years are guaranteed, or if the third is an option?
Is there any team in baseball that spends more unwisely than the M’s? Not even the Yanks make these moves anymore. They are like the Albert Belle era Orioles.
JM Hawkins @111 — we have one, but he’s playing LF.
the other thing Bavasi said on KJR was that it was Alan Nero who approached them before spring about an extension, and they’ve been talking all this time; it was resolved just the other day.
and from Geoff Baker, quoting Bavasi at the presser:
“”I would guess that at some point along the way, because of Jeff’s bat — and assuming Kenji plays the way he can — Jeff’s going to get exposed to another position at some point,” Bavasi said. “But we have not given up on him as a catcher. A lefthanded hitting catcher with power, those are real tough to find. So, this doesn’t change Jeff’s track to the big leagues much at all. Because his track to the big leagues is with his bat more than his glove anyway.”
oh, Nellie.
“I think Kenji is a mediocre catcher and a mediocre hitter … it prob’ly has more to do with the Japanese ownership”
Wow I just heard that interview with Nellie on the radio and was pretty shocked at his comments. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a baseball player through another baseball player under the bus quite like that before. he didn’t just call him mediocre, he went on about it at length, hinted that the pitchers on the team don’t like throwing to him, said he wasn’t accurate with throws, didn’t block the plate, gave examples of bad throws from last night’s game, went on about the depth in the farm system and how other players like Clement would be better offensively, and yes – stated that he thinks the signing might have to do with the Japanese ownership. I mean, wow. I don’t usually listen to these guys on the radio but I always thought they were mostly homers who pulled their punches when it came to criticism of the local team. Is Nellie usually like that or does he really, really have it in for Johjima for some reason??
Nelson shoots his mouth off, he always has and I’m sure he always will.
Classically, when Gas said that he disagreed with him about Joh being a below-average hitter, Nelson did an about-face and said he didn’t mean that Joh was a bad hitter, that in fact he was a pretty good hitter.
ah well. after he was traded to NY the last time, he announced it was because he said what he thought. Then he got to NY and announced that he’d talked to them, and found out that NY had been trying to trade for him for a week or two, and that was why he was traded. I think he is back to saying it now that it was because he speaks his mind.
I’m just saying.
ah, I found the Torre quote I remembered:
“Nellie’s Nellie,” Torre said. “You get the package. You understand that he says things sometimes, and about an hour later sometimes he says, ‘I didn’t mean to say that.’”
Priapus is the nature of this extension.
If Clement was magically going to be an even average MLB catcher, it would have already happened. That it hasn’t already suggests he doesn’t really have big league talent for catching.
A poor catcher hurts the pitching staff which costs runs which cost wins. A good catcher that can’t hit is always better than a poor catcher who can over the course of a season. Clement can hit however, so find somewhere else to fit him in.
Joh is good at both aspects, great at neither. Add those together and there are only a few catchers that rate ahead of him.
On a side note: Joe Mauer is an amazing specimen of a hitter, but only an average at best catcher. Why oh why do the Twins insist on sitting him behind the plate? He’s already had one knee surgery………………
Joser,
It won’t happen with Bavasi at the helm, but I would love to see the following lineup in 2010:
Ichiro (CF), Balentien (RF), Saunders (LF), Betancourt (SS), Triunfel (2B), Tuiasosopo (3B), Lopez (1B), Ibanez (DH), and Clement (C).
yes, because so many catchers are finished products by 23.
Initial reaction aside, there is one positive thing that could come out of this signing. I say could because… well, you know.
Anyway, there is now absolutely no reason for Clement to be in Tacoma. With him hitting the way his, and Vidro being Vidro, he should be up ASAP. Since him becoming our starting catcher is obviously not a priority any more, he should be our starting DH tomorrow in my opinion. There is no reason why he should remain in AAA with this signing. None.
Since him becoming our starting catcher is obviously not a priority any more, he should be our starting DH tomorrow in my opinion. There is no reason why he should remain in AAA with this signing. None.
There’s something wrong with Batista…no way! thanks for that pearl of wisdom, Rizzs.
It’s BAEK TIME!!!
Let’s just take this for what it is.
1) Jeff Nelson is a racist–always has been, always will be; and an equal opportunity racist–anyone different from him will do
2) This is absolutely Bavasi’s last season with the M’s. 50/50 that he will make it through the season
3) The idea of having Joh and Clement share catching in some fashion (hopefully with Clement also at DH on off days) is not the worst of things
4) If you think the Yamauchi connection had any part of this–that doesn’t make you a racist. It could well be true
5) The upside of this early season bullpen collapse against poor opponents is that Balentien and Clement will be up at, or shortly after the All Star break; and the bullpen can’t possibly help but improve
sorry about that, I thought I was on the game post…D’oh!
It’s frustrating to see so many teams getting younger and locking up young players. The Mariners have been going in the opposite direction for years, signing players well past their prime years and trading away young stars. It is really frustrating.
I can’t wait until Bavasi is fired so there can be a post recapping all of his moves.
That’s a sign of incompetent organizational philosophy. You see it time and time again in losing teams, overpaying for veterans and “sure things”.
If anyone is immediately in jeopardy, I actually think it would be Vidro.
Remember when Adam Jones came up to ride the pine? The Mariners went on and on about how much a player can learn from sitting on the bench. Getting the big lieague experience ™.
Now, look at current state of the M’s, Clement, etc. Vidro’s in shambles. Realistically, Raul should move to DH and be replaced in left by a Kenny Lofton or similar player. But MacLaren loves Raul’s defense, so that won’t happen.
Clement’s hitting, but still needs to learn how to catch in the MLB. If the M’s really think players learn best by their non-game work in the bigs, then Clement to DH solves all of their problems. They get his bat. He gets to learn from the big league workouts.
Plus, for a learning catcher, DH is even better than 1B – while the rest of the players are on the field, he can discuss pitch calling real-time with the coaches. Keep Burke as the true “backup”, but you can still slot Jeff in for an occasional taste of the action, resting Kenji at DH.
(And, if they ever do wise up about Raul’s defense, the M’s can still put him at 1B in place of Richie’s carcass.)
My guess is that Raul will strongly resist becoming the DH.
This assertion would only follow if he were in an organization other than Seattle’s. The most depressing thing about the contract extension is not that we’re stuck with Kenji for almost four more seasons, although I admit I’m cringing thinking of all the base-on-balls we won’t be getting from the catcher’s spot over that period of time. No, the most depressing thing for me is the feeling of utter helplessness and hopelessness that the signing left me with.
Maybe they intend to replace Vidro with Johjima at DH! More likely, they saw all the Sizemore/Longoria et al. contracts being handed out and really wanted to get into this whole business of locking up players, except they interpreted it as, “lets show we that we can lock up our veteraness — you know, just in case any more Willie’s or Cairo’s show up on the scene”.
I thought there’d be even more outrage after the dollar amount was disclosed. That’s criminal, man. $8M a year?