Not What I Meant

Dave · May 10, 2008 at 10:16 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

Remember a few days ago when I mentioned the M’s had five days to salvage their season? Yea, I didn’t mean “lose all games between now and then”.

Forget Mojo Rising – the new motto is “Seattle Mariners – The Bear Stearns of Baseball”.

14-24, the team would have to play .637 baseball the rest of the way to even have a chance to win the division. The 2008 season ended on May 10th. Good job, boys – get those resumes ready. You all deserve to be looking for work soon.


72 Responses to “Not What I Meant”

  1. PositivePaul on May 10th, 2008 10:27 pm

    No — they took you seriously. You clearly didn’t haven’t registered for playoff apparel yet. It’s their wedding gift…

  2. edgar for mayor on May 10th, 2008 10:28 pm

    Ya man….the season is done. The likes of Johjima, Vidro, Betancourt and our entire bench are destroying this offense. Who would have thought that starting pitching would be the strong part of our team at the end of last year.

    This team digust me. Its not even fair, because even in the event of a playoffless year, Armstrong and Bavasi will most likley loose their jobs. But I don’t think we can get rid of Lincoln, which is the main road block in the way of seattle baseball getting with the times.

  3. Bodhizefa on May 10th, 2008 10:28 pm

    I’m assuming the Bavasi firing and firesale waits until the All-Star break, but man oh man I wish we could just go ahead and get it done. I find myself tuning out just as soon as Miguel Cairo comes up to the plate and I see 1B by his name in the on-screen text. Unreal. Oakland fans have to be laughing their tails off at us right now, as I’m sure Texas and Anaheim fans are as well.

    I guess the big question is do you think Bedard will be dealt this year to another team in an effort to acquire some semblance of a comparable package that we dealt off for him? I’m pretty sure we’ll never get back as much as we gave, but at this point, it’s in our best interest to get rid of him and bulk up on the prospects. We need a full-on Arizona/Cleveland/Tampa Bay roster clearing at this point, and a good return on Bedard would be a solid first step.

  4. edgar for mayor on May 10th, 2008 10:30 pm

    3 -

    There will probably not be a fire sale. And if thee is YES Bedard should go.
    Beltre, Bedard, Putz and Ibanez will all rake us in alot of guys.

  5. msb on May 10th, 2008 10:32 pm

    Mojo Rising

    I was tempted to evoke a Lawrentian-style phrase about steam rising from the manure, but golly, it is just too easy to do.

  6. msb on May 10th, 2008 10:34 pm

    No — they took you seriously. You clearly didn’t haven’t registered for playoff apparel yet. It’s their wedding gift…

    ooh, synchronisity. JJ just pointed out that his jersey is appropriate wedding attire.

  7. tomas on May 10th, 2008 10:37 pm

    Order has been restored to the universe

  8. dlb on May 10th, 2008 10:38 pm

    I like the idea of a fire sale…except that generally means we cut people (ex: Washburn) and get nothing in return. And then we go and trade away whatever we have left in the tank for superstars of 2002. Ideally we would find trading partners willing to give up too much for an aging past prime player, but unfortunately, we are the only ones stupid enough to make trades for players like HoRam, Vidro, et al and sign below average players to long term deals (Batista, Washburn, Kenji, Silva, et al). Awesome. I can’t wait to see how Bavasi ruins this team further.

  9. edgar for mayor on May 10th, 2008 10:38 pm

    I feel bad for Neihaus…he has put up with this shit for 30 + years.

  10. Carson on May 10th, 2008 10:38 pm

    Well, I made the right choice when I backed out of season tickets when McLaren was announced to be coming back.

    Seriously, it’s easily worth the loss of the $500 deposit. Let us all hope the Mariners have an equal understanding of cutting their losses.

  11. joser on May 10th, 2008 10:39 pm

    The problem with a firesale is that it will be all fire, no sale. I don’t trust Bavasi to get anything close to comparable value back for anything he might trade at the deadline.

  12. edgar for mayor on May 10th, 2008 10:39 pm

    ^^^ I didn’t spell Niehaus wrong…

  13. tomas on May 10th, 2008 10:41 pm

    It’s time for a new five year plan. This one is bogus. Hoi-ohhh

  14. joser on May 10th, 2008 10:43 pm

    One thing about this — this year there’s no hanging around, playing above their heads, inspiring irrational hope in the fans and silly, believing-our-own-press behavior in the front office. This is a dead-end team going nowhere and nobody can have any illusions about it. It’s probably still too much to hope for the management to act in a long-term, sensible manner — and we’re long past hoping for accurate talent assessment — but at the very least this should force some changes that have been long overdue.

  15. tomas on May 10th, 2008 10:44 pm

    Yeah, I hear ya Carson. Mac’s eagerness to put the game in motion is not gonna work with these guys. It’s probably why they kept WFB and Cairo.

  16. tomas on May 10th, 2008 10:47 pm

    joser’s right. Even if the go on a run at this point, it’s become crystal clear that they need a new plan. Nothing short of that is gonna bring back the excitement to the old Safe

  17. tomas on May 10th, 2008 11:03 pm

    Just imagine that this season is a bad taco and you’ve drunk too much 151 and cashews and then…Hwhaaugh! puke it up. Do it, you’ll feel better.

    At the very least you’ll be able to keep drinking.

  18. gwangung on May 10th, 2008 11:15 pm

    Yeah, I hear ya Carson. Mac’s eagerness to put the game in motion is not gonna work with these guys. It’s probably why they kept WFB and Cairo.

    Well, because they think “correct baseball” is building a National League style team, circa 1960s or 70s.

    Unfortunately, this is the American League, in the 21st Century….

  19. smb on May 10th, 2008 11:23 pm

    If the M’s are Bear Stearns, does that mean we can start hoping a better-run club will buy us out and save us from our own rank ineptitude?

    No? Darn. Oh well, I hope Derek saw something amusing on Occidental at least.

  20. PaulMolitorCocktail on May 10th, 2008 11:39 pm

    I’m looking forward to Derek’s next towel photo.

  21. awolfgang on May 10th, 2008 11:40 pm

    Even more depressing, at least if the Sonics or Seahawks suck, I could always look forward to the draft, you know like impact players like Rick Mirer and Rich King, but with the MLB draft I can’t even get excited that the M’s might have the first pick, cause they’ll still not select the best player if Bud tells them not to.

    And yet, I will still record and watch every game, just like the authors, I am a sucker, and I will continue to wish for the ponies and kitties to give me a miracle.

  22. mln on May 11th, 2008 12:17 am

    Just imagine that this season is a bad taco and you’ve drunk too much 151 and cashews and then…Hwhaaugh! puke it up. Do it, you’ll feel better.

    LOL. This would make an apt marketing slogan:

    “Mariner baseball–We make you puke!”

  23. scott19 on May 11th, 2008 12:30 am

    But I don’t think we can get rid of Lincoln, which is the main road block in the way of seattle baseball getting with the times.

    Unless maybe, with any luck, he somehow turns up as a “client” in Spitzer’s “girlfriend’s” black book.

  24. Lasky on May 11th, 2008 12:37 am

    Your presentation of the statistical probability of coming in first in the division is misleading. First of all, it is based on the assumption that the Angels and and/or A’s will have a certain degree of success. Second of all, by saying the Mariners must play at * level for the rest of the season, you make it sound like the M’s have to win 6 1/2 out of 10 consistently until fall. Of course this doesn’t have to be the case. The Angels and A’s have also recently lost some games, and what the M’s have recently lost, they can make up in winning streaks. Winning eight out of ten counts for a whole lot in making up the difference. But you don’t factor in the streaky nature of baseball. 7 or 8 games back isn’t an insurmountable problem. They win five in a row and they are five games back in the middle of May.

    That said, what is perhaps more objectionable than going on a loosing streak, is setting the team up to have a loosing record for many more seasons to come. Bevasi, in this sense, has ‘gambled for resurrection’ with the Bedard trade, and has cost the team its future. With the Mariners talent stock, they will probably take the place of the Texas Rangers. Although baseball is a streaky, chaotic thing.

  25. griffin on May 11th, 2008 12:51 am

    it’s sad when i was once excited about going to games this season.
    then it turned into me being excited to at least going and getting the rest of the bobbleheads to complete the series (i got an Ichiro one)
    now i don’t care about going and getting the rest, because i’d just be bummed out at a losing mariners game.

  26. OppositeField on May 11th, 2008 1:00 am

    I wish guys like Lasky wouldn’t post things like that when they clearly don’t know what they are talking about.

  27. Sports on a Schtick on May 11th, 2008 1:01 am

    The bare minimum to win the AL West is 88 wins. The M’s have to go 74-50 the rest of the way (about .600) to reach that mark. It doesn’t matter whether they get wins in bunches or here and there. If Seattle doesn’t average 6 wins out of 10 games for the rest of the year it is toast.

  28. scott19 on May 11th, 2008 1:03 am

    With the Mariners talent stock, they will probably take the place of the Texas Rangers.

    So, by that rationale, we get all the way to third place by September.

    Ooh boy…can’t wait for that! >:(

  29. matthew on May 11th, 2008 1:18 am

    It almost feels good to say “I told you so” to all of the idiots that said the Mariners would contend this year.

    It would, if all of us at USSM didn’t care so much.

  30. lyon on May 11th, 2008 1:25 am

    Every day that Bavasi holds the GM title is another day filled with the endless possibility of stupid. A competent organiztion, realizing that things are broken beyond repair, would go ahead and pull the plug rather than risking any more moves from the current regime.

    Of course, they’re going to be looking for an “experienced baseball man” which will no doubt lead them to the doorstep of Chuck Lamar, experienced baseball man.

    Maybe he can get Kevin Stocker again.

  31. Gihyou on May 11th, 2008 1:33 am

    A firesale would be great, if we had anything to sell.

    We’d be like a garage sale that has nothing but VHS tapes, cassette tapes, a dresser with significant chipping and half the drawers broken, a completed ‘My Little Pony’ coloring book, several books with pages missing, and a wide assortment of knick-knacks that we’re sure had value for us, at one time, but for the life of us we can’t fathom why.

  32. scott19 on May 11th, 2008 1:38 am

    Hey, you forgot a Veg-O-Matic, Thigh Master and unopened Chia Pet! :)

  33. thefin190 on May 11th, 2008 1:48 am

    It’d be awesome if Dave did one of the posts where Bill Bavasi owns a store which metaphorically resembles the Mariners, but this time have other GMs shopping in the store rather than Dave. I think it’d be really funny.

  34. scott19 on May 11th, 2008 1:53 am

    Given the current makeup of most of the roster, tt would have to be either a Dollar Tree or Big Lots!

  35. jspektor on May 11th, 2008 2:17 am

    I feel like the Mariners have forsaken me. These guys are going to lose 90 games this year … typical McLaren inconsistency. Easily solved by Miguel Cairo and WFB.

    Garbage in. Garbage out.

  36. scott19 on May 11th, 2008 2:24 am

    These guys are going to lose 90 games this year

    My, my…are you being generous! I’m guessing closer to 95, at least!

  37. AtomicGarden on May 11th, 2008 2:46 am

    I agree, it’s quite unlikely we’ll reach the playoffs. My best case scenario? We finish decently, around .500… we get Bedard to sign an extension, and we get Felix to extend while we’re at it.

    Then (and this won’t happen), we fire the entire front office for a dissapointing season. The manager goes as well. Then (this absolutely won’t happen), we hire Chris Antonetti to be our GM for ’09. I don’t know much about him honestly, but everyone here seems to love him so I’ll go with that (and I do admire his use of the DiamondDream machine or whatever in Cleveland). Then we actually sign some free agents that will help our team win. We build around starting pitching with Felix and Bedard. We base our lineup around Ichiro, Beltre, Clement, Wlad, Johjima (sigh), and we sign some free agents. We have some good parts to this team. We just need to get rid of some parts holding us back (many of which will be free agents after this year). It can be done… without selling everything we have for prospects.

    This all relies on the idea we can lock up Bedard. If we can’t keep him, I think we’re screwed.

  38. Typical Idiot Fan on May 11th, 2008 3:06 am

    While the Mariners offense has been horrifyingly bad lately, their run prevention has been rather good. Even now, they’re on pace to allow less then 740 runs. The offense is horrible, but I refuse to believe that certain hitters who have gotten off to bad starts will continue to persist. Clement will get better, Johjima should get better, Ichiro will hit more. Those three alone can have a big impact on the offense. Beltre and Ibanez have been good, and Wladimir Balentien has been doing better then we thought. Sure, Betancourt, Lopez, and Sexson aren’t helping much and probably wont, but when the offense picks back up, the runs scored will balance out more.

    There’s no way this is a 90+ loss team. On the other hand, if we do lose out and get the first pick of the 2009 draft, there’s a heck of a kid at San Diego State University who I’d like to see with the compass rose on his hat.

  39. BillyJive on May 11th, 2008 3:23 am

    Anyone else been checking the daily blogs for rumors of BB’s firing?

  40. terry on May 11th, 2008 4:49 am

    You know what? A bunch of firings really won’t give me more hope. What are the odds that the powers to be would get it right with this round of regime change?

  41. TomC on May 11th, 2008 7:48 am

    The Amateur Draft is June 5-6. It doesn’t make sense to fire Bavasi before that. Hopefully even Lincoln can recognize that.

    However, McLaren can be fired right away.

  42. jimbob on May 11th, 2008 8:00 am

    True, McLaren will probably get whacked for lack of an alternative. But the front office LOVES Bavasi. Even the USSM has on occasion remarked what a swell guy he his. As long as the Mariners remain profitable, look for more of the same for a long time , like the cold dreary spring weather.

  43. terry on May 11th, 2008 8:08 am

    I think the Ms have a Bavasi-proof drafting command central that wouldn’t be affected much by his presence or absence this June.

    Attendance isn’t bad though. I can’t see Bavasi getting fired during the season.

  44. AZ Ms Fan on May 11th, 2008 8:17 am

    Well with all this going on right now, another loss of a season in the books, maybe losing Bedard at the rate we are going, and trading away some great future good players for him to play for us for one losing season. The only reason i have to even go to games right now is for Garlic Fries, And the occasional bantering of fans of whos teams MIGHT be worse than ours but of course looks like we might have to take that part out of it to. So in other words i guess its just better to watch the games at home, that way you can change the channel, and when you pay 7 dollars for beer, you get 6 of them instead of one, that you usually spill half of by the time you get back to your seat in the middle of the row.

  45. RITTEM1 on May 11th, 2008 8:56 am

    What is so obvious to the front office, the media, and the casual fan and what USSMariner and LL clearly don’t understand is that the performance of the M’s so far has nothing to do with Bavasi or the front office. It has everything to do with the players. The players simply need to hit better. It is the players fault that they suck, not the people evaluating them and signing them to ridiculous contracts. Anyone who has listened to Chuck Armstrong lately would know that.

  46. tomas on May 11th, 2008 9:10 am

    Rittem1: Are you serious? One of Bavasi’s jobs is to get players on their ascent, build a team and create conditions where players can excel. Sure, it’s the hitters jobs to hit, but you can’t just run anybody out there. His lack of preparation is what leads to Carl Everett, Wilkerson, etc. players who they get because there’s no one else. That does not create a winning attitude or environment

  47. Kunkoh on May 11th, 2008 9:26 am

    thinking of new mottoes could be kind of amusing – if somewhat mindless; but then the M’s already made me lose my mind. up in here. up in here.

    “No mo’ Mojo” (to obvious?)
    “Mission Accomplished” (Bavasi did say that before last year.)

    ps. RITTEM – that WAS sarcasm wasn’t it? “It is the players fault that they suck, not the people evaluating them and signing them to ridiculous contracts. Anyone who has listened to Chuck Armstrong lately would know that.” – oooh very, very good. Very dry delivery. kudos.

  48. julian on May 11th, 2008 9:26 am

    The only reason i have to even go to games right now is for Garlic Fries

    Isn’t your local Kidd Valley a tad cheaper, and less depressing to boot?

  49. AZ Ms Fan on May 11th, 2008 9:36 am

    Ya, but Kidd Valley never has any pretty girls in there to look at. But on the other had, at the safe, a young single guy like me wants to be able to walk around and have a view while he chomps down, and im not sure if kidd valley has the Chicken Tenders version.

  50. cheapseats on May 11th, 2008 9:46 am

    Is it underperformance? Only? Hmmm…

    I don’t know about anyone else, but as little as I expected out of them this year, this early season collapse is too serious to be seen as just a problem of their not having their shit together. There’s something systemic about it. And it’s surprisingly bad. Typically, to my memory, collapses of this magnitude are registered later in the season when there might be an actual chance of doing something, and failing. But here, they just swam right into it… like they were on a mission…

    Philosophical Moment: For those of you who are optimists, just remember, it’s still early. And even if they recover back towards .500 ball here somewhere (hmmm… what’s the chance of that…), they have every possibility of falling then again into another horrendous stretch in, say July or August.

    Bad as this looks, they could easily stink it up even worse. And statistically, that’s the probability.

    That said and given the moves they are going to have to make, in a now metaphysical way, the rest of the season is going to be interesting.

    My only hope, is they have enough sense to finally go into serious rebuilding mode, and give up on the Pollyana-ish free agent route once and for all. There were times when it made sense, when they really were in contention (and didn’t do it, but that’s a boring old gripe, anymore…). But not now.

  51. seamariners85 on May 11th, 2008 10:26 am

    I dont get the whole “I told you so thing.” Youd rather be ‘right’ about how crappy this team is than be surprised if they were to actually do something? And just because someone feels that the team could contend this year makes them a mindless sheep to whatever Bavasi, McLaren, etc say? I was very skeptical of this season because look at the team we root for. Have they ever made us completely comfortable (Except 01.. Until late September?)? Regardless of how shitty the team seems or is on paper I always feel there is SOMEWHAT of a chance to contend when the season starts (which is generally shot in the first month, but thats beside the point). Going into this season I felt there was a shot we’d contend, especially after Oakland’s dealings this winter and the news of the Angels top two starters being out. Who would have really thought shitty ass Santana and Joe Saunders would each be 6-0? I knew our offense wouldn’t be great but goddamn theyve been abysmal. Anyways, I just dont understand that whole mindset, where a person thinks they are better than other people because they set themselves up for failure earlier, thus allowing them to say “I told you so.”

  52. oystercracker on May 11th, 2008 10:49 am

    Stages of Grief

    Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance

    USSM is stuck between Anger and Bargaining

  53. msb on May 11th, 2008 10:50 am

    well, according to Jerry Brewer it’s that well-known evil, “Lack Of Leadership”


  54. Lorenzo on May 11th, 2008 11:07 am

    I actually think Brewer has a point that this team seems to have been “cobbled together” by (he doesn’t say this explicitly) a desperate front office in fear of losing their job. Bavasi knew that if the M’s didn’t win this year, he’d be gone. And so we find ourselves with an arbitrary conglomerate of “proven” (read: past their prime and overpaid) veterans–Bavasi’s clueless, ineffectual championship strategy–in addition to a couple of designated inheritors, a group who showed they couldn’t handle the pressure of a pennant race last year, and this year, with heightened expectations, an inexplicable favorite to win the division, are showing the same tendency.
    And by the way, chemistry and leadership DO exist; anyone with any experience on any kind of team knows that. But I don’t blame the lack of leadership on the players; I blame it on management. This is McLaren’s team, and their performance is a direct reflection of his executive incompetence.
    (By the way, Bloomquist getting picked off yesterday with the tying run–and hottest hitter on the team–at the plate in the seventh inning was the worst baseball play I’ve ever seen in my life.)

  55. profmac on May 11th, 2008 11:27 am

    Bloomquist didn’t get picked off. Ichiro got thrown out at home.

  56. Gomez on May 11th, 2008 11:31 am

    So with 2008 in the bag, I’ll be listening to the minor league org’s games and catching the M’s when I can and it’s convenient.

    What will everyone else be doing?

  57. Lorenzo on May 11th, 2008 11:31 am

    Same difference…
    Why was he stealing? That late in the game, his run means nothing. The only run that mattered was the man standing next to home plate. If you don’t trust your three hitter, the ostensible best hitter on the team, to be able to tie up the game in that situation, how do you expect to win any games?

  58. jefffrane on May 11th, 2008 11:39 am

    My backup plan was to watch the Cubs v Dbacks. Except it’s raining. Ah, flip over to Detroit. Raining. No game at all.

  59. IndieSnob on May 11th, 2008 11:40 am

    Call me a sadomasochist, but I’ll still watch all the games I can. Sure it’s really defeating to the soul to watch them lose so much, but my love of baseball knows no boundaries. The best I can hope for right now is that the organization finally gets their head out of the sand and start to make some changes.

  60. Stufr on May 11th, 2008 11:40 am

    I don’t think we will get anything in a firesale either, but don’t forget what you get to do after you have a yard sale at home…
    You pile all of the left over crap in your truck and drive it to the dump. Think we’ll get to drive willie, turbo and cairo to the dump??

  61. profmac on May 11th, 2008 11:44 am

    They better freaking lock up Bedard long term… Or there shall be a hit put out on BB

  62. BillyJive on May 11th, 2008 11:56 am

    Has anyone seen how bad the lineup is today?
    Just trying to brace myself for he worst…

  63. BillyJive on May 11th, 2008 11:57 am

    Brace myself for The worst…
    Can’t type today my head kinda hurts…
    Where does one go on the net to find the lineups?

  64. smb on May 11th, 2008 12:06 pm

    The players simply need to hit better. It is the players fault that they suck, not the people evaluating them and signing them to ridiculous contracts. Anyone who has listened to Chuck Armstrong lately would know that.

    I sincerely hope this was sarcasm.

  65. red_devil20 on May 11th, 2008 12:19 pm

    Per Gameday

    Ichiro! – CF
    Cairo – 1B
    Beltre – 3B
    Ibanez – LF
    Lopez – 2B
    Clement – DH
    Johjima – C
    Balentien – RF
    Betancourt – SS

  66. Ebenezer on May 11th, 2008 12:19 pm

    @30 – I have to agree. This is Bavasi’s eleventh year as a GM, all in the four-team AL West, and always with healthy payrolls. He’s never made the playoffs, and yet the M’s stick with him.

    Bavasi sounds like a good guy, but as Lorenzo @53 points out, Brewer’s correct – Bavasi doesn’t have backup plans if things go wrong, such as when our offense started tanking, and has no real strategy. He GM’s much like his father did, even though the game and the statistical tools have changed dramatically. He seems to follow unwritten and untested rules when putting together his team.

    I would like to think that the M’s would hire someone knowledgeable after they fire Bavasi, but I don’t think they would have let him trade Adam Jones and the rest if they didn’t think Bavasi had the right approach. The 88 wins last year gave Bavasi time to do longer-term damage to the franchise. Bavasi’s style does fit well with the M’s higher ups, who are as innovative as the newspaper and recording industries.

  67. LefebvreBelebvre on May 11th, 2008 2:08 pm

    “There will probably not be a fire sale. And if thee is YES Bedard should go. Beltre, Bedard, Putz and Ibanez will all rake us in alot of guys.”

    The irony is incredible. Turning around and trading Bedard for young talent?


  68. NBarnes on May 11th, 2008 2:36 pm

    Thing is, Bavasi is actually really good at a lot of important parts of a GM’s job. He’s like the anti-DePodesta; lousy trader, lousy judge of talent, lousy at building a roster, but really good at interacting with management, media, and fans, and runs a good farm system (that he then wastes cause of the ‘lousy trader’ problem). My fantasy that isn’t Antonelli is actually that the Ms hire DePodesta and install him as shadow GM with Bavasi, and Bavasi, for whatever reason, swallows his pride and lets DePo do the parts that Bavasi himself sucks at.

    I’m not holding my breath, but it’s a nice fantasy.

  69. mln on May 11th, 2008 4:53 pm

    The Mariners should definitely trade Bedard for young talent.

    I hear the Orioles have a kid named Adam Jones that could be the centerpiece of such a deal. If the O’s throw in their lefty relief ace, whatshisname Sherrill, and maybe a couple of farm hards that would be a steal for the Mariners.

    Git R done, Bavasi.

  70. Stufr on May 11th, 2008 6:59 pm

    [repeated button term violation]

  71. The Unkown Comic on May 11th, 2008 7:33 pm

    Look at the bright side of things. You still got some Felix days to get all excited about. :)

  72. Benne on May 11th, 2008 8:06 pm

    Everybody’s talking about extending Bedard, but what about Felix? Locking him up long-term should be priority #1.

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