Shut Up Jarrod
Jarrod Washburn, back to his old tricks, throwing Kenji Johjima under the bus:
Asked about some apparent situations during his start Saturday when he and catcher Kenji Johjima weren’t in concert, Washburn didn’t deny it.
“There’s times when you’re not always on the same page,” he said. “It happens.”
Washburn was asked if there was any more of it than normal.
“With Kenji? No,” he said. “Read into that what you want.”
Washburn has made prior reference to some difficulty working with Johjima. On Saturday, he appeared to bark at his catcher after one White Sox at-bat.
“It’s a work in progress,” said Washburn. “When he comes over from Japan, you know there are going to be communications issues with the language barrier, and him learning an entirely different league and a whole new pitching staff. And also, he has to learn the umpires and opposing pitchers. He’s got a lot to handle. I would never want to have to do what he’s doing. He’s got a tough job, a lot of hurdles.”
As for whether it’s more complicated than merely different pitch preferences in particular situations, Washburn said: “I don’t know how exactly to word it. It’s more like a consistency issue, I guess. Sometimes you click and sometimes you don’t.”
Washburn’s done this before, insinuating to the media that Johjima’s responsible for his poor performances. I have a news flash for you, Mr. Washburn – you aren’t pitching well because you suck. You throw a meaty fastball over the plate and your breaking pitches are something an 8th grader would be embarrassed of. Johjima can’t flash a few hand signs and tell you to throw a good pitch, because you’re not capable of it. His options are Suck Pitch #1 and Suck Pitch #2, with a side of Suck Pitch #3 worked in for good measure.
You’re lousy because you lack talent, not because your catcher is Japanese. Own up, be a man, take your ridiculous contract and shut the hell up. Thank you.
Applause.
Riddle me this: if Washburn throws a ball that never gets to Johjima, how is it Joh’s fault?
Must be lost in translation…
I read that bit this morning, what a s***** thing to say. If he wants an English speaking battery-mate he should tell Mac so. And if I were Joh and Jarrod was throwing me under the bus I’d start telling the batter what’s come up next, ala Major League. Not that they need any help hitting Washburn’s crap, but nonetheless.
Washburn is so bad that even my grandmother, who only took to baseball after she was 90 years old, realized that he was terrible in his first season. She also saw through Ryan Franklin and called Franklin “that pitcher who whines about it not being his fault.” Once Franklin was gone, Washburn became the target of her ire.
Precisely my thoughts when I read the Times this morning over my coffee. Is that the team character the Mariners prize so highly? Shouldn’t Hargrove or McLaren have had a discussion with Washburn telling him to quit ripping his teammates to reporters?
Someone tell Washburn that he can shake him off till he gets the pitch he wants to throw. In the end it comes down to the pitcher throwing what he wants. So next time you shake him off 3 times then get taken yard, can’t really blame that on Kenji. I am not sure Kenji calls the best game, but it is not his fault either way.
I am not sure Kenji calls the best game, but it is not his fault either way.
And I’m pretty certain Joh gets his marching orders from Mel and the rest of the coaching staff. Regardless, Washburn’s problem isn’t the game being called it’s his lack of stuff. He’s simply not very good, like Dave said.
This kind of insinuation on the part of Washburn makes me sick–and it would make me sick even if it were true. (Which of course, it is not.)
Umm, it’s a little something called camaraderie and being a team player, Jarrod. Maybe you’ve heard of it?
STFU Washburn.
Can this at all be related to any sour grapes from Wash (or any other Mariner) about Joh’s contract extension? I am not referencing the actual money, but how the extension was rumored to have come directly from Mariner ownership rather than Bavasi, Armstrong, or Lincoln. Even so, Wash is a bad pitcher and it is not Joh’s fault that he gives up lots of runs.
Aside: “Sour grapes” doesn’t mean jealousy; sour grapes — from the Aesop fable of the Fox and the Grapes — is when you can’t get something and then declare it’s no good (“Hmph. Well, those grapes were probably sour anyway”).
(Sorry, it’s one of my language hobby-horses.)
Not defending Washburn’s comments in any way, but I’m pretty sure I read something recently that Jamie Moyer made similar comments about Joh. Am I totally off base or does anyone else remember this?
#4
That was Bull Durham where Crash Davis was telling the hitters what was coming not Major League.
I’ve often read pitchers say “Ultimately, you have to throw the pitch *you* want to throw, and if that means shaking off the catcher so be it.” So I’m a bit confused as why Joh’s so squarely in the crosshairs after a bad performance by Washburn.
#5 – remember that about Franklin as well. The Mariners would lose and the next day in the paper he’d be saying “I was happy with my performance.” Not that he should fake feeling somber after a loss, but showing even a little class never hurt anyone.
Memo to Washburn; try developing an out pitch before you start talking smack about your teammate, jerk.
One day soon after Washburn bought a house in the Seattle area, he noticed a Latino landscaping crew doing work on a neighbor’s house. He walked over to the guy who appeared to be running the crew, said to him, “I want you to do my yard, too.” At that point, he handed the guy a business card, with his agent’s office listing. “Send the bill to this address” he added, “an never–NEVER–walk up to my door.” Then he turned around and left.
You can believe it or not, but it’s true.
Don’t know if has a problem relating to everyone, or just non-Caucasians.
No, you’re probably referring to some off hand comment someone made in a previous game thread saying how he was Jamie Moyer’s neighbor, and that he made a remark about Johjima to him. I’d take that with the hugest grain of salt possible.
Dave – Thank god. Shut up Wash. Until you can find an OUT pitch (15) figure out how to not throw your teammates under the bus. This guy is terrible.
Can we start booing Washburn now? At least Sexson is beating up the other team.
I’d laugh even harder if it were sour grapes over Joh’s extension. Washburn’s way overpaid and never should haven gotten three years to begin with. Ufckin’ bum!
What an asshole. How many years do we have left of paying this guy? Seems like we’ve already been watching him forever.
I don’t think what Washburn said was that big a deal. Secondly, Washburn does not suck – he’s a decent back-end rotation major league pitcher. A little perspective please. Now, proceed to go ballistic on me.
A little rational perspective here would have made this a better thread. My nephew happens to be left-handed 8th grade pitcher who would dearly love to be able to throw Washburn’s stuff, enabling him, at this point in his life, to pitch perfect games against other 8th graders every time out. Jarrod Washburn may not be in the running for the Cy Young award, but he’s nevertheless a legitimate major leaguer. The contempt shown by Dave here is out of line. Worse, it damages his credibility for the 98% of the time when his analysis is spot on.
Hyperbole is an effective rhetorical tool. Taking hyperbole at face value reflects on the reader, not the author.
And, really, Jarrod Washburn is a lousy pitcher. Those who think otherwise don’t understand how to evaluate pitching talent.
and FWIW, if it is true that Moyer had a problem getting in sync with Joh in his first season? He has more of an excuse than Washburn; he likely is not the easiest pitcher to catch, between calling his own game, the variety of pitches he throws, and the fact that he uses more signs than any living pitcher … per Norm: “He’s got first sign, second sign, third sign, a sign on odd days, even months, odd years, when it rains outside, when he drove his truck to the park. You’re basically not going to steal his signs.”
Tee hee.
If anything, Dave was too nice to Washburn in this post. This is the sort of thing you keep in the clubhouse, if it is actually happening, and frankly it all smacks of someone trying to find anyone to blame but himself.
I don’t think pitchers should speak out to the media about issues with the other half of the battery, but that doesn’t make what Washburn said or was perceived to have said incorrect.
Washburn’s not great, and most folks who pay attention to baseball knew that before he showed up in Seattle. But Johjima’s not a great handler of pitchers, and since he showed up in Seattle there’s not much qualitative logic to suggest otherwise.
Perhaps Washburn has tried some more discreet methods in the past but realized a new 3yr/24M dollar deal later that things aren’t changing for the better right now.
Using the word “suck” four times in three sentences is hardly hyperbole, just bad taste.
Come on Dave. Your writing is so good most of the time you don’t really need to stoop to this.
I actually don’t have a problem with any of this, other than the “read into…” If you take all of those comments, without the “read into” it, he is simply talking about issues that normal pitchers and catchers have. However, considering Johjima and Washburn have been pitching to each other for three years, this is a bit ridiculous.
Sometimes pitchers really enjoy working with a certain catcher because they think like they do. Also, when a pitcher spends every pitch shaking off, they can get out of rhythm and don’t have the same confidence in the pitches thrown. And that does effect location and the amount of movement on the pitch.
Does that make it ok for Washburn to rip into Johjima? No. Washburn does not have good enough stuff to be in the top half of any rotation. Is he a #5 starter, yes, but then he’s overpaid for a #5 starter.
19
If you have been in/near section 233 you would have already heard the immense Washburn boo’ing I take part in.
Can’t STAND that guy. 9.5 million dollars welllllllll spent.
Yeah, man… You go Dave. I agree, Johjma’s not the problem. The issue with Washburn is Washburn.
As for this team…
I feel for Mac, I don’t think this is his fault. He’s doing what he can. Were asking him light a fire with soggy tinder in a rainstorm. If anybody’s being thrown under the bus, it’s him.
Fantastic as usual, Dave.
One thing I’m curious about: Is there even a correlation between certain catchers and overall pitching performance? Obviously there are certain tangibles like defensive ability, range, etc, but in terms of sheer pitchcalling, are some catchers better/smarter than others?
If nobody’s worked this out yet, I’ll do it when I get home from work.
The few things I know about japanese baseball suggest that the catcher is seen as being much more responsible for the outcome of the game. Pitchers shake pitches off far less, and the high fastball is a more important outpitch. Regardless, though, Kenji is a very bright guy, and certainly understands that American baseball isn’t Japanese baseball.
Dave…great summary of what has been a tough couple of years to watch this pitcher…I’m pretty sure he’s sucked with another catcher behind the plate too. Also, 30 pitches per inning isn’t a “good” performance in anyone’s book.
I remember a couple of years ago, the Mariner staff was not going very deep into games, and Jarrod Washup was right there in the middle throwing too many pitches too early…was it Joh’s fault then??? What about Felix? He uses Joh too? JJ? Same thing???
He can’t admit he is at the end of his career.
Let’s see: 5.68 ERA, 2-5 record, and getting hit rather hard nowadays. Couple that with a team that is playing around .300 baseball the past month, and the little things start to eat at you.
The bigger issue here as I see it is to keep everyone from starting to point fingers. The strain of being on a last-place team that should have been contending (their plans, not mine) is really starting to show. Sexson’s girl-fight strategy for a not-close inside pitch, now Jarrod is complaining about the catching.
Now’s the time for Mclaren to either do his job, or risk losing his team.
Using the word “suck†four times in three sentences is hardly hyperbole, just bad taste.
Come on Dave. Your writing is so good most of the time you don’t really need to stoop to this.
Umm . . the hyperbole had do with the comparison to the 8th grader. The part about Washburn sucking was actual evaluation, supported by many posts that you can easily read in the achived files of USSM. It’s YOUR credibility that is being diminished because you are taking shots at Dave’s approach and tone in the post when you really disagree with his evaluation of Washburn’s talent. Why not come up with some facts re: why Dave’s evalution is wrong, and stick to that. I think Dave’s post was appropriate given the “pass-the-buck” nature of Washburn’s comments in the media. I suspect you aren’t able to argue your real point, and so are looking for other things to nitpick.
I don’t see anywhere in the entry above where Washburn said anything that could be considered throwing his teammate under the bus. He just said there is some communication problems and then went on to describe what a tough job Johjima has. That hardly seems disparaging.
vr, Xeifrank
maalox, I am not Dave, but let me say I cannot imagine that a catcher has any significant impact on how well a pitcher throws. Some pitchers may believe that, but it is just not the case. Does anyone really believe that another catcher would actually improve Washburn’s performance?
Think of Dan Wilson. Everyone loved Dan and believed he called a good game. Yet some pitchers pitched poorly with him (Ayala, Slocumb, Hitchcock, etc.). Some pitched great (Unit). Dan was a good catcher, but he had absoultely no effect on Ayala’s sucktasticness or Unit’s greatness.
We did some discussing here of Joh’s ability to call a game back in his first year with us. I do believe it has been an issue at times, but I also believe these comments were uncalled for by Wash. Keep it in the clubhouse guys.
34-
How is Mac not doing his job? He’s putting the guys out there that he has to play. He’s even trying different line-ups. While he does wear a uniform, I don’t think he can hit, pitch or field.
I guess, I am of the school that he’s doing what he can, hasn’t really had a chance to show that it is 100% his fault.
We’re counting how many times the word “suck” is used in a post now? Seriously?
Washburn was asked if there was any more of it than normal.
“With Kenji? No,†he said. “Read into that what you want.â€
Jarrod pushed him right into traffic, man.
I remember going to a game and hearing Jamie Moyer shouting at Dan Wilson. It was shocking. I can’t even picture Dan Wilson’s Dad shouting at him.
Some people are just cranky. Pitching is a tense business. It has its analogy with a marriage. When things get tough, who is the closest person to blame besides oneself? Even the most even-tempered, forgiving partner has caught him/herself at that game.
And everyone is entitled to an opinion, even a mediocre pitcher. However, telling tales to the media that are clearly out of school, airing dirty laundry – choose your metaphor – not a classy approach, Mr. Washburn.
but let me say I cannot imagine that a catcher has any significant impact on how well a pitcher throws.
Exactly. And I repeat, Joh is certainly getting orders on what kinds of pitches to call and to whom from Mel. Remember ‘establish the fastball’?
I wish there was some way of measuring the effect of a catcher on a pitcher. For instance, Dan Wilson was always called a good handler of pitchers and you wondered what the data was on that.
Blaming the catcher is the last refuge of a scoundrel pitcher.
Unless Washburn clarifies that his comments were taken out of context or he otherwise steps up and takes responsibilty for his own failings, then he is a disgrace–and he needs to go.
Very disappointing.
That to me seems like bus-tossing. The last little bit of his statement seems like an implication that Joh is never on the same page.
Nice post Dave.
I’ve really been having a tough time watching Washburn this year (not that other years are a lot different). It almost as though the opposition is loading up on every pitch trying to knock it out of the ballpark. I have to close my eyes when the ball leaves his hands. Very Painful
Uh, gee, let’s see…20-34 over the last two years and change (I know, slapping my own patties here ‘cuz I shouldn’t use W-L as a determining factor…but 10-15 in an 88-win season?)…only two years out of 10 with 200+ innings…only ONE season you could truly argue was “above” average…on a “good” night, requires 100 pitches or more to get to the sixth inning…and, oh yeah, he’s making upwards of 9-mil in salary?
Oh, but yeah…his crappy seasons in Anaheim, I suppose, were all because of that, ah, “communication barrier” between him and Bengie Molina. I forgot. >:(
This kind of stupid language would a perfect excuse to deal Washburn’s sorry ass to some NL team.
Yes, but Jamie was shouting “Get off my lawn!”
Jamie shouted at hitters sometimes, too. He got really annoyed at hitters who would actively foul his stuff off without even trying to put it in play.
he has a penetrating voice
Ugh, seriously.
What a fucking schmo. What does Jarrod expect is going to happen when he hangs that 86mph “burner” over the plate?
Several people have asked about any work done on the effects of catchers on pitchers. There is an article in Between the Numbers that does look at the effects that working with a specific catcher has on a pitcher. It was instigated by the Giants’ spurning A.J. Pierzynski in favor of Mike Matheny, a catcher whose best hitting seasons equalled Pierzynski’s worst. This was due to Pierzynski being unpopular with the pitchers.
But what the research suggested was that there is little difference in how different major league catchers affect pitching performance. Pitchers like working with some catchers and don’t like doing so with others, but there isn’t evidence that it has much effect on the quality of their pitching. Maybe it is more pleasant to work with one guy than another, but there wasn’t evidence supporting the conclusion that this produced better pitching. Just less complaining.
There might be more research out there on this topic but it looked like if such an effect existed, it was rare.
I agree with the spirit of the post here; Jarrod has done this twice now, and it’s clearly not a very collegial thing to do. To those who think he isn’t saying anything bad…find other examples of pitchers routinely questioning their catchers in the press. Sure, he had some self-deprecating things to say to soften the blow, but this kind of thing really makes me wonder what kind of hold Mac has on this clubhouse. The day after the FIRST time this happened, you’d have thought Mac would’ve had a chat with Jarrod.
All that said, Washburn seems to pitch worse to Johjima. I appreciate that tango or the BP guys looked at the effects of specific catchers affecting performance, and that may be true in aggregate. I’d imagine that the sample sizes just aren’t big enough to say that any effect is significant, and that’s probably the case here as well. But look at Washburn’s split pages on B-R and you’ll find that his OPS allowed is over 100 points higher w/Joh behind the plate than other catchers. This in NO WAY excuses Washburn’s comments, but in light of both his performance and his apparent belief that Joh’s incompetent, I don’t know why they don’t start Burke when he pitches. At the very least, it might shut him up; see Jarrod? Kenji wasn’t to blame for THAT HR, or THAT loss…. maybe the problem is a little closer to home.
Funny how Kenji may have just saved one of our best players and the cornerstone for the franchise and instead of being grateful to him, Wash just insults him for his horrible pitching… again. Was Jarrod dipped in lemon juice when he was a baby or something?
Yeah, I think that’s the point.
Jarrod Washburn is trying to cast this, openly in the media, as it being Johjima’s fault that he can’t pitch very well.
Might Johjima’s gamecalling and/or catching skills have some small effect? Sure. But most of the problem is that Jarrod Washburn isn’t a very good pitcher.
Doing it twice over a 2+ year time period qualifies as routinely?
Washburn for Griffey. Problem solved.
scott19: Did Washburn really blame Molina for his struggles, too? I didn’t know that.
We’ve got another mediocre left-hander in Tacoma just waiting to come back to the big leagues and show us that he is, at the very worst, replacement level…
@39 slescotts – Mac’s job is more than simply filling out the lineup card. It’s his job to shut down finger-pointing. If Mac doesn’t say anything to Washburn and/or Johjima, he’s not being a manager.
It’s not his fault it was started, but it is his problem to deal with — and to nip in the bud. Not doing anything to resolve it, and keep his team from unwinding, would be his fault.
Look on the bright side, according to the Mariners homepage Jarrod is working on a splitter…since his new change-up has worked out so well, you know. Apparently he threw one in the game the other day and it didn’t get hit over the fence! Domination is right around the corner for him now.
Doubt it…just being facetious.
Though given the available information, it wouldn’t have surprised me. Washburn’s been a lousy pitcher for a long time.
@54
I agree that they should just try Clement or Burke when Jarrod pitches. The problem will more than likely still be there, and he’ll get shelled just like if Joh was behind the plate….
At least Bedard said the whole team sucked
.
Hyperbole is an effective rhetorical tool. Taking hyperbole at face value reflects on the reader, not the author.
The trouble is, we get so much hyperbole everywhere else. We come to USSMariner for clear-eyed, well-considered, precisely calculated analysis — the kind of thing that pierced all that over-inflated crap from everywhere else. An inoculation, a vaccine, a cure for hyperbole. Not more of the same.
That said, I don’t expect that from a piece entitled “Shut Up Jarod” and I wouldn’t want to prevent Dave from employing a useful and often amusing writerly technique. But the Internet Nitpickers are legion, as are the brain-on-rails Literalists, and as long as there is a way for them to comment on posts we’re going to be hearing from them. Fortunately, they’re mostly easy to ignore and I suggest we do so.
63: And remember when Franklin was working on that knuckleball some years back? That was supposedly gonna be his new “secret weapon” — ’til Lou and Price told him not to throw it, that is.
Doesn’t Wash have another season of ’24′ to shoot soon?
Has a catcher ever charged the mound on his OWN pitcher? That might get me to buy a ticket.
So…what’s Washburn’s record with the Mariners when Johjima is not catching?? Can anyone look that up?
A catcher should NOT make the difference whether you pitch well or not. But I will say, that as a pticher in high school, I did pitch much better with one of the catchers than the other. I honestly never understood why, but when there is a synergy there…you pitch that much better. FWIW. Cut the guy some slack…if he doesn’t feel they are in agreement on certain things and Johjima is telling him where to throw the ball it IS going to change the results whether Johjima catches the ball or NOT. Johjima calls the games.
Even assuming that it’s true that Johjima isn’t as good for Washburn as Burke, that’s an issue for Washburn, Johjima, and McLaren (and possibly Burke) to work out. It’s poor taste to slag Johjima in public, and it certainly doesn’t contribute to the harmonious clubhouse (etc etc)
23
I doubt this. He’s a 37% GB pitcher with a 13.7% K rate and 7.3% BB rate. (Combined 2007 and 2008 stats.) He’s bad a striking batters out, he’s prone to longballs and he doesn’t have any better control than a typical major leaguer. Safeco pads his ERA and FIP; xFIP (which is park adjusted) tells the real story: 5.35.
I’ve never seen it mentioned much on here, so I was starting to think I was the only one who thought he looks a bit like Keifer.
Washburn is a ‘veteran’ pitcher. He likely does a fair amount of his own game calling.
68: Michael Barrett and Carlos Zambrano came pretty close to doing that during a Cubs game last year — though not at the mound.
Apparantly, an 85 mph fastball + gravity = splitter. Sweet.
And speaking of scouty grandmothers (see comments 5 and 55), my grandmother refers to Washburn as “that angry little beaver.†It kills me every time.
Why, oh why, did you mention those names, I’d almost stopped having nightmares……..
I wonder if this kind of (inexcusable) behavior is at all related to the way the M’s coddle veterans? My impression is that there’s a norm in the clubhouse that the veterans can get away with anything. If that’s the case, McL needs to change that in a hurry, and the FO needs to back him up. But they probably won’t.
75— ROTFLOL… I had to clear the LCD of the monster drink that I was drinking…. it is now sticky.
beckya57, yeah, it reminds me of the kind of shit the Dodgers veterans were dishing last year.
Maybe I’m just reading this wrong, being the only one who thinks this but what I think Washburn was saying is that your going to have these problems with any catcher. It being not any more so with Kenji than it would be with whoever, and the media can read into what he’s saying any way they want since he figured it would be blown out of proportion anyway, which is true. I could be way off base here, but you see pitchers having communication issues with their catcher all the time, and he was saying it was just a little tougher because Kenji had to learn the language. If anything he complemented Kenji for picking it up so easily, saying he could never do that himself. I’ll admit the first time he may have been a little out of line, but I think people are reading in to this the wrong way, exactly as he said they would.
And for the record, he is a bad major league pitcher.
I heard on BBTN that Ryan Franklin was the closer for the Cards on Saturday (and on checking, that was his SECOND save!). FYI…
————–
maalox said in #32: “One thing I’m curious about: Is there even a correlation between certain catchers and overall pitching performance? Obviously there are certain tangibles like defensive ability, range, etc, but in terms of sheer pitchcalling, are some catchers better/smarter than others?”
Addendum to Tek Jansen’s comment in #37 and pygmalion’s in #53…..maybe not a correlation, but a way to blackball a player. I know of one situation where a blockhead good-hitting catcher had a better CERA than his smarter but poorer-hitting backup.
In that case, though, the manager put this not-so-great-defensively better-hitting catcher behind the plate for his best pitchers, and the back-up catcher behind the plate for his back-of-the-rotation pitchers. The back-up was a guy who used to be great both offensively and defensively and at one time held a #1 catcher job, but had fallen on hard times offensively and was relegated to back-up duty.
Thus, his CERA and caught-stealing stats reflected how awful his pitchers were rather than how bad a catcher he’d become. But someone who didn’t know that manager-pitcher-catcher dynamic easily concluded the poor benighted back-up catcher was worse than he really was.
And yes, this was a case of manager favoritism.
Yeah, and there’s the problem with catcher stats by staff. When Maddux had a personal catcher, he’d make that guy look great compared to the starting catcher, and any comparison flawed.
While I don’t think anyone in the thread mentioned this, for the few games that Washburn has pitched well in an M’s uniform, who gets the credit for those?
Can’t have it both ways.
Should Jarrod be praised for not pitching terrible all the time?
Well, at least in that regard, he’s consistent.
No. I think more accurate to praise certain opponents for being terrible some of the time.
Good point. Maybe a move to the bullpenn might do him some good, although we’d have to suffer the bad performances later in the game.
35 – “A little rational perspective here would have made this a better thread. My nephew happens to be left-handed 8th grade pitcher who would dearly love to be able to throw Washburn’s stuff, enabling him, at this point in his life, to pitch perfect games against other 8th graders every time out.”
That is the new high-water mark for unintentional comedy on the good ship U.S.S. Mariner.
“You couldn’t beat up a comatose one-year-old.”
“Screw you! I could beat the HELL out of a comatose one-year-old!”
I haven’t laughed this much at a Dave post in a while. Well played, sir!
Maybe it’s a good indication of the quality of the Major League pitcher (not A, AA, or AAA)….we’re comparing him to an 8th grader….
Someone get a scout to that kid’s games!!!
[I'm not a big Washburn fan either but dragging a skeleton out of his closet old enough that the story still mentions him as an Angels pitcher is a cheap shot, please don't do that again]
[it's being dealt with]
[it's being dealt with]
Jason Varitek’s a free agent next year, right? So…we bring in Varitek and Griffey and Jose Cruz, Jr. and Jamie Moyer and maybe Joey Cora (obviously he’s been out the game for a bit, so he’ll have to DH, but that’s the natural progression for a 2nd baseman as we all know) and we’ll have the most nostalgic 50-112 season in history. Also, Washburn will win 40 of those games with the benefit of a catcher who doesn’t fall into the traditional Japanese habit of making his pitcher’s stuff s****y.
…However, it would be nice if we could elevate the dialogue back above that of the National Enquirer.
Also, I agree that Washburn is not a very good pitcher. But if someone can maintain a career in the bigs for 11 years they are obviously doing something that none of us a capable of. So I’m not going to use the “suck” analogy. I played ball for 13 years and would give anything to be in a position to “suck” in the bigs leagues.
The one thing that does raise an eyebrow for me is the fact that Bedard hasn’t gone with Johjima, yet. I can certainly understand the language problem but I am hoping it is just Washburn, and not a sentiment of others as well. It does seem like he and Felix work well together though.
“that angry little beaverâ€
And a new nickname is born. I so love this. Somebody has an awesome grandma.
Shouldn’t have gone there…sorry for the low-blow.
Which proves it’s not the catcher….
Also, the Molina bros are ALL in the big’s, and they are slow, and only hit marginally….but they MUST be “good” with the pitchers, because they’ve all been in VERY big games with very good pitchers. Nary a “communications” problem.
There’s nothing that proves the underlying merit of a hyperbolic statement like somebody trying to engage said statement at face value. It’s like an unspoken admission that even though you’re wildly exaggerating, the only thing wrong with what you said is the degree to which you’ve carried it. “Well, certainly a 10-year-old could pitch better than Washburn, but very few 8-year-olds could.”
I think I speak for everybody here when I say this is taken as a given whenever we talk about how bad a major leaguer is. Every major leaguer kicked our asses in little league, then kicked the asses of others who had kicked our asses in high school, then did the same in college and/or the minors.
Who gets the credit for the few times Washburn has pitched well? Easy…the batters who get themselves out on his BP fastballs and the defense that makes the routine plays behind him. I refuse to congratulate someone making his money with his lack of talent/ability on pitching competently from time to time or making it into the sixth inning. He’s lucky Sexson casts such a long shadow of suckitude, otherwise more people probably would have noticed that he’s a medioce-at-best pitcher who’s being paid like an All-Star.
I don’t see any reason to cut him slack. You want slack, don’t suck ass, and don’t throw your catcher, who has exhibited nothing less than the highest level of integrity since he first put on a Mariner uniform, under the bus. Or at least don’t do it without mentioning yourself, Turbo, Richie, and any and all other gaping black holes of production on the M’s roster first. Most of all, don’t blame your suckitude on anyone but yourself.
This is a good time to reference The Brushback’s article on the Washburn signing from ’05…
Jarrod Washburn assures wife he’s not joking about $37 million deal
And can we get a pony for 1000N? I think he needs a pony to protect him from Dave’s appallingly bad taste in using the word ‘suck.’
Classic….I laughed out loud on a conference call with that one!
I have no delusions of grandeur, but I did make Bob Wolcott my personal gimp during an American Legion game, going 2-2 with a double and homer over a barn in CF. On the other hand, I served up a homer to Richie Sexson a year later . . . and he hit it left-handed. Oh the shame.
Sorry. The allegation that I wrote about earlier was from August 2007 and the link I posted (from 2005) was to show precedence.
The Mariner’s policy of considering a player’s character as a factor in signing them took another hit and adds fuel to the “Bavasi is an idiot” fire.
I agree it was a cheapshot and I won’t do it again.
94: Hey, maybe while we’re at it, we can get Blowers down from the broadcast booth, bring Nellie out of retirement, go get Russ Davis back, and reassemble that horrible crap closer corps from the the late-90′s.
The 2009 Seattle Retro-Mariners: “Refuse to Win!”
And speaking of scouty grandmothers (see comments 5 and 55), my grandmother refers to Washburn as “that angry little beaver.†It kills me every time.
Heh. I thought it was just me that noted the resemblance. I’ve always been surprised they let him anywhere near the bats.
Oh, you’re saying that their judgement of character is as good as their judgement of talent?
If that anecdote is true, then damn.
“Never-NEVER-walk up to my door”? WTF!
Well, I’m not sure where that came from but perhaps Washburn doesn’t like to be bothered? He is a backwoods hunting kinda guy. Is his wife home alone there when he’s out of town? The charge of bigotry or racism is pretty heavy stuff.
Nice post Dave. Indeed I was told by Moyer in ’06 that he did not like throwing to Johjima. Nevertheless, he didn’t take it to the media, but instaed dealt with it. There have been many worse defensive catchers than Johjima and their staff’s made it work. For a team that already seems divided, this does not do anything to help comradere. Maybe if Washburn were an ace he could have his pick for catcher. Furthermore, most pitchers who have their own catcher do so because they have stuff that is hard to catch (Maddux, Wakefield). Not too tough for major leaguers to catch an 88 MPH fastball with little movement thrown down the middle. No doubt Joh is not the best defensive catcher, and probably does not handle the staff in the best manor, but he is the guy and it really doesn’t make much sense for Washburn to make the statements he did.
107: I always thought he looks like a rabbit.
On sucktitude: obviously Willie Bloomquist is much better at playing baseball than all of us put together. Miguel Cairo is among the best baseball players on Earth. But that’s not the scale they are being judged against when a spectator says they suck: they are being compared with the other best baseball players on Earth.
I don’t see Bedard or Felix or Silva having these translation issues – maybe it’s you, Jarrod?
I find it interesting that the idea of a catcher influencing the outcome of a game is so flippantly rejected here. Is the idea really so patently absurd?
Most catchers believe it, most pitchers, coaches, seems like most of the GM’s I’ve heard speak on the issue believe it…and these are all people that make their living from the game, not only believe it matters, but that its significant. I guess they’re all just ignorant?
So, it doesn’t matter if the catchers read the scouting reports? Or, is it that they all read and interpret them exactly the same way? It doesn’t matter if the catchers know which umps have a wide strike zone? which squeeze the pitchers? Reading the pitcher’s stuff, how well its moving on a given night and whether certain pitches are good enough for a certain situation, that doesn’t make a difference?
….interesting theory.
Hey. I don’t think it’s “flippantly rejected” at all.
Everyone who’s looked at this so far, from Woolner to James and on and on, has found no evidence that different catchers have a significant effect on the game through their pitch selection.
It’s a lot like clutch hitting, if you will. If you took a survey of everyone in baseball, you’d probably find the vast majority believed in clutch hitting and so forth. But there’s no evidence that at the major league level there’s such a thing as a clutch hitter, someone who consistently hits better tahn expected in those situations.
In both cases, we can talk about why that is, but a large part of it is that the selection process to get to the majors is so rigorous that catchers, like hitters, who can’t call a game are weeded out just as hitters who can’t hit with runners on don’t advance.
Further, the battery is a shared responsibility. Veteran pitchers often call their own games, and all pitchers do the things that you cite as possible influences on the game, from scouting to umpire management. If a catcher was totally incompetent, you might see it, but the pitcher’s knowledge of those things would cover. But again, they wouldn’t be there if they were totally incompetent.
If you haven’t read the Woolner/James/etc research into this, I highly recommend it. At the very least, it would help you understand that the people who have a different viewpoint aren’t doing so out of spite or arrogance.
Agree with 115. Obviously Washburn shouldn’t have aired his issues with Johjima in the paper. However, the guy’s pitched in the bigs for 11 years and knows something about how a pitcher and catcher should work together, and he obviously has a major problem with Johjima. Bedard doesn’t seem to like pitching to Johjima either, evidenced by the fact that, before tonight, he’s pitched to Burke in every game but opening day. So, it’s apparent there is some kind of problem between Johjima and at least two of the team’s five starters (including your #1), and that can’t be good, can it?
Yeah, no one is rejecting catcher influence “flippantly.” I rejected it way up in the comment thread because of the evidence presented by Baseball Prospectus which pretty convincingly showed that catcher influence on RA was rare, if it exists.
I wouldn’t be surprised if catcher influence existed at lower levels – such as high school – where there might be vast differences in skill and knowledge between two catchers. But at the major league level, there is just no evidence of a catcher consistently improving or worsening pitcher performances.
Jarrod says he wasn’t really tossing Kenji under that bus, really he wasn’t.
Actually, I’ve read statistical studies supporting both sides, and the more convincing ones tend to indicate there is a significant influence, in some cases.
I’ve read Baseball Prospectus’ case and was unconvinced. It seemed more that they started with the conclusion that it had no influence, and they tried to find/present data that supported the conclusion they started off with.
DMZ – funny you should mention Bill James, I recently read a piece in which, in so many words, Bill James said, ‘I was wrong, clutch hitting does exist.’
If I can dig it up I’ll point you to it. Turns out watching David Ortiz’ repeated clutch performances brought him out of denial.
Bill James came up with a statistic to support some idea he had while watching a game?
I think I’ve heard this story before.