Clement down, Reed up, Mariners still dumb

DMZ · May 18, 2008 at 4:30 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

The best thing that could be happening would be

Ibanez –> DH
Reed –> LF/RF (with Wlad to left)

And the more painful option would be

Reed to bench
Vidro to DH

Updated: Hickey confirms that it’s the more painful option. THANKS MARINERS! Let no win go untreasured there. Why did I even bother considering that they might be making a positive move here?

Clement wasn’t hitting, certainly, but in a way this is just Adam Jones’ callup last year redux: Clement proved his bat was ready for the major leagues and there wasn’t much left for him, offensively at least, to learn in Tacoma. None of that’s changed unless we’re going to argue that failure in the majors gives him a to-do list of flaws to correct (if so, I’d love to know what that is).

To Reed… Reed came over in the Garcia trade, didn’t hit, didn’t hit, and has been stuck in Tacoma ever since.

Right now he’s hitting .349/.413/.557 in Tacoma. Last year he hit .300/.354/.452.

Who knows what to make of that. He certainly plays capable outfield defense, which the team desperately needs even as an outfield sub.

I favored using Reed or Jimerson as a backup OF from the start, but now — this goes to the heart of one of the few basic disagreements I have with Dave and many other baseball people, and I’ll illustrate it with an example where I was totally wrong.

Take Sean Douglass. Baltimore farm system product, racked up some huge strikeout numbers and nice ratios in the minors without having scout-lauded stuff. Then he pretty much sucked in the majors over his couple of years bouncing back and forth.

I’m totally in favor of giving players like that a shot if there’s an opportunity. All players have holes in their games that some people think will keep them from being effective – heck, Minnesota gave up on David Ortiz (released him!) and once you look at them with that knowledge, it’s easy to see it reinforced.

Reed’s 27, these are his peak years, and he’s now gone from really nice prospect to almost inexplicable major league washout (even the wrist thing doesn’t do those seasons justice) to frustrated AAA masher. I don’t have a complicated explanation for the why. I’d just play him and see what happens.

The side effect of this is that when someone like Douglass doesn’t succeed, I have conversations that go
“I told you he didn’t have a major-league quality out pitch.”
“Yeah yeah yeah.”

If Reed can hit and play a corner outfield position, it’s a huge boon for the Mariners.
If he can’t hit and play a quality defensive substitute and be a lefty pinch-hitter and spot starter, that’s a boon for the Mariners.

I’m all for giving him a shot and seeing what happens. The M’s suck right now — they can only improve.

The bad news is that again, the team will have cut someone more useful in order to hold on to Vidro and Cairo, who are both useless players on this roster.


110 Responses to “Clement down, Reed up, Mariners still dumb”

  1. bakomariner on May 19th, 2008 1:25 pm

    The short term of the move doesn’t really matter…they sucked before the move and will after…the long term will be brutal if they are trading away Clement, his develpment suffers from being back in AAA, or if Vidro’s option kicks in…

  2. joser on May 19th, 2008 1:39 pm

    I don’t think the M’s organization is capable of sneakiness, but they’re certainly capable of self-delusion.

    However, the reigning king of delusion lives somewhere to the south of us.

    Like most baseball folk, general manager Brian Sabean likes to assess his team once it completes one quarter of its schedule. The Giants did so with a 6-3 loss to Houston on Wednesday night, and strange as it might sound, Sabean sees a San Francisco team that can contend.

    Not in two seasons, not next season, but in 2008.

    “As long as we’ve got a chance to stay in and around third place, why not?”

    “I think we’ve come a long way,” Sabean said. “When you consider some of our challenges in spring training and some of the question marks, we’ve got to be considered one of the most improved teams in baseball. ”

    Keep in mind that not only do the Giants (17-28) have a worse record than the M’s (18-27), they’re much further behind their division leader (12.5 games vs 7.5) and they’re further behind in the wild card (8.5 vs 7.5). Yes, the Giants, “one of the most improved teams in baseball.”

  3. jspektor on May 19th, 2008 1:42 pm

    I still cant get over the headline of this thread

    “Clement down, Reed up, Mariners still dumb”

    Well done. Nicely Played.

  4. Joe on May 19th, 2008 1:45 pm

    Attendance is clearly down this year, and doesn’t look to improve (the usual bump from summer weather and school vacation, of course, but not as much as other years). The last time attendance took a significant hit we got the Sexson and Beltre contracts. This offseason should prove… interesting. (In the spirit of fan friendly gimmicks, can I hereby proactively dub Griffey “Mr Human Rally Fries”?)

  5. jzalman on May 19th, 2008 1:46 pm

    SF-Barry Bonds+Aaron Rowand=most improved. Screw SABRMetrics, that’s SABEANMetrics.

    Seriously though, if you’ve only “got a chance to stay in and around third place” isn’t that the answer to the question why not?

  6. jzalman on May 19th, 2008 1:47 pm

    And agreed jspektor, the title of the post is great.

  7. jephdood on May 19th, 2008 1:59 pm

    When a thread discussing the general ineptitude of the FO gains more attention (posts) than an actual game thread.. some changes need to be made.

  8. Steve T on May 19th, 2008 4:51 pm

    I honestly think Bavasi is coasting on macho bravado. He’s a guy’s guy through and through, and can slap backs with the best of them, and he’s loud and brash and intimidating. I think he’s sitting there right now, completely flummoxed that his answers aren’t working, but he will never in a million years admit that his basic approach is wrong. But it is: playing Vidro at this point is inexcusable.

  9. CaptainPoopy on May 19th, 2008 7:34 pm

    79 Jeff Nye-

    Sorry about rehashing old arguments, that wasn’t my intention. I was merely trying to somehow understand the move. Figured that would be a logical explanation.

  10. JollyGreen on May 20th, 2008 4:51 pm

    Maybe I misread the initial post, but why will the Mariner’s have to cut somebody in order to keep Vidro and Cairo?

    Also, what is Reed’s status with the team, he turns 27 in a few weeks, at what point will he be unable to be sent back to Tacoma (no more options) and somebody else can claim/sign him?

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