Off-day pro-con

DMZ · May 29, 2008 at 8:30 am · Filed Under Mariners 

Pro: Extra day to bask in series win over the Red Sox. The Red Sox!
Con: Would like to see team win 3-4 instead of settling for 2-3.
Pro: Vidro doesn’t pick up PAs towards his option vesting
Pro: Extra day to brace yourself for Silva start (have you considered investing in a quality neck brace?)
Pro: Entire day can be spent voting for you favorite Mariners in the All-Star balloting. Vote for deserving candidates like Ichiro! and Beltre, maybe. And, uh…

Comments

68 Responses to “Off-day pro-con”

  1. Mustard on May 29th, 2008 8:43 am

    ….more time to search for Papua New Guinea beer and figure out a way to sneak into game and get elusive picture? =)

  2. xxtinynickxx on May 29th, 2008 8:44 am

    How about those lesbians kissing during the game………On a personal note they are not the only ones.My wife and I got busted for kissing last year. We really didn’t think it was a big deal. I thought it was only a peck as well. But a peck is in the eye of the beholder. We were told if we kissed again we would be forced to leave. So for this couple I wouldn’t feel so special. Also if your gonna take a picture of a couple kissing why not tell the attendant first to see what happens. They can not see everything.

  3. bratman on May 29th, 2008 8:47 am

    Pro: Beating a team like the Red Sox the way were able to in game 3 should remind ownership what it feels like to WIN a close game in playoff-like atmosphere.

    Hopefully those punks in the F.O. don’t turn this feeling into a CON by thinking that this 08 team can contend and therefore do not take the necessary steps to get a head start on the rebuilding process for ’09.

    Yes, that win was glorious. But just a taste of glory to come. Hopefully.

  4. paulkersey on May 29th, 2008 8:52 am

    Con: Jeff Clement gets another chance to raise his Triple-A numbers to ever-more ridiculous levels while not getting a call-up.

  5. bakomariner on May 29th, 2008 8:53 am

    I will admit, that after Lopez hit the game winner in game two and the whole team celebrated as though they won the World Series, I was sitting there grinning ear to ear…that win felt good…I mean the kind of feeling you watch sports for…

    And I also have to admit that although the game last night was a good one, and I will always root for the Ms to win, I also went to bed thinking that it’s just going to keep the FO from fixing the team…

    Vidro will keep getting ABs and the option will kick in…

    Morrow will stay in the pen- there’s our closer of the future…

    Ibanez and his “great play” against the wall will keep him out there…

    And on and on and on…

  6. Sklyansky on May 29th, 2008 8:56 am

    I like how the M’s announcers made a point of saying a person could vote up to 20 times for their favorite Mariner in all-star voting. Maybe a contingent of M’s fans can vote in Vidro, to share the wealth.

    And I really hope the win over the Red Sox doesn’t give McLaren a stay of execution. I had been hoping he’d be gone by the end of the home trip…this is looking less likely now.

  7. msb on May 29th, 2008 8:57 am

    watch baseball guys play golf? buy stuff to support CFF?

  8. Jeff Nye on May 29th, 2008 9:10 am

    Is Cairo on the ballot?

    If so, let’s try to get him voted in!

  9. metz123 on May 29th, 2008 9:12 am

    Wallow in the fact that it took the M’s brain trust all of 2 appearances to go from “Morrow should be converted into a starter” to “M’s shelve thoughts of Morrow starting”.

    Blowers was spot on last night. Either Morrow should be starting or he should be a closer. Since starters give you value for 200 innings I’m thinking starter.

    I’m hoping that Mel uses the day off to watch tape from last night and witness how Bedard shut down the Sox by throwing a lot of 1st pitch breaking balls. Then he should show the tape to Felix and the words “establish the fastball” should be banned from future use by M’s coaches.

  10. Paul B on May 29th, 2008 9:15 am

    Is Cairo on the ballot?

    Could be a write-in.

    Maybe we could convince National League fans to all vote 20 times for Cairo, in order to help the NL finally win an all-star game.

  11. msb on May 29th, 2008 9:16 am

    Wallow in the fact that it took the M’s brain trust all of 2 appearances to go from “Morrow should be converted into a starter” to “M’s shelve thoughts of Morrow starting”.

    well, not quite. more like waffling.

    “I’m not saying we’ve backed off it,” McLaren said. “But there’s a lot he has to do to get ready to start. We’ve by no means given up on this season at all.

  12. Paul B on May 29th, 2008 9:18 am

    Anyone know the difference in value (runs prevented?) over the course of a season between a top of the rotation starting pitcher versus a closer?

  13. abender20 on May 29th, 2008 9:19 am

    Two thoughts – Firstly, I don’t want to see Morrow starting until he can develop and throw 4 pitches for strikes. The fastball / slider / splitter combo is not enough to fool people for multiple times through the lineup, so I would like to see him add a good changeup (ask Moyer for help).

    Secondly, boy did it feel great to win 2 against the Red Sox. Almost makes you forget the 20 losses in 25 games streak. It’s amazing as a fan how little it takes to get you feeling good again. It WAS nice to see Bedard pitch that well.

  14. bratman on May 29th, 2008 9:27 am

    I couldn’t agree more. The Morrow situation is a no brainer in our situation. If this team was in contention – or even remotely close – I could see how they could reason to keep Brandon in a Set Up role similar to Joba in NYC. Even so, the Yanks are STILL stretching Joba out to become a starter.

    I vote we send Morrow down, have him develop another pitch and start stretching his pitch count to become a starter for next year. At this point our season is over, and there is no reason to not convert him into a starter.

    What if we still aren’t in contention come the AS Break (which is more than likely)? If this is true will Brandon still be in a set up roll? If they send him down in late July or August to stretch him out the months now will be wasted. I will be even more pissed at that point b/c they could be using time right now to develop him so that there will be a chance he will get some ’08 rotational starts.

    The counter argument: There is no room for Brandon with Wash/Batista/Silva.

    How freaking delusional is our Front Office.

    09 SP: Felix, Bedard, Morrow

  15. north on May 29th, 2008 9:33 am

    The fastball / slider / splitter combo is not enough to fool people for multiple times through the lineup, so I would like to see him add a good changeup (ask Moyer for help).

    Hunh? Depends how good those two or three pitches are. Wasn’t Beane just talking about Harden basically only using two pitches at this point?

    If I am Morrow I’d request a trade – preferably to the As. The Ms could get Jack Cust. After all Cust has been hot for a couple of weeks and he really tries hard on defense.

    As Morrow’s advisor, I’d tell him to wait until after he has had a couple of bad outings – then put the idea in management’s head.

  16. skipoar on May 29th, 2008 9:51 am

    Ichiro is NOT! an All-Star candidate.

  17. Evan on May 29th, 2008 9:51 am

    Is Cairo on the ballot?

    Reed is. I keep hoping Corco will game the poll and get him 500,000 votes at the deadline.

  18. beckya57 on May 29th, 2008 9:55 am

    No one on this team deserves to be in the All-Star game. Ichiro is having an off year, and Beltre’s solid, but not at an all-star level, IMHO. Bedard and Felix have both been erratic, and Putz is suffering from the bad bullpen management. Ichiro may get voted in because of name recognition, and if he isn’t he’ll probably be named the team’s representative (mostly for the same reason, but also because there aren’t any other deserving candidates), but only because the rules require that each team have at least one member.

  19. DMZ on May 29th, 2008 9:56 am

    Ichiro’s a candidate, I voted for him already. Did he get declared ineligibile?

  20. bumkus on May 29th, 2008 10:03 am

    (bracing myself for severe retribution)
    I think it makes sense to give Cairo some credit for playing some great 1B defense. I can only occasionally watch the games, but in the last four days, I have seen him make four or five plays that none of our other 1b options would have made. I had no idea his defense was that good.

    His bat is definitely atrocious, but ALL of our 1B options are awful (possible exception being Ibanez at 1b). If he can play good defense out there and make some minimal contributions with the bat, its not the end of the world if we have Cairo at 1b for a week.

    That being said, I’d boot him in a second for either Johjima at 1b or Hatteberg to platoon with Sexson.

  21. Gomez on May 29th, 2008 10:04 am

    Entire day can be spent voting for you favorite Mariners in the All-Star balloting. Vote for deserving candidates like Ichiro! and Beltre, maybe. And, uh…

    And writing in Miguel Cairo, of course!

  22. coasty141 on May 29th, 2008 10:11 am

    I still don’t believe that Vidro will be back with the team next year. Dave Sims and Blowers have talked openly about how Vidro and Sexson will be moving on after this year. I really think the team will stick with Vidro in until they decides to retool for 2009 (probably just after the trade deadline) and at that time they’lll give Vidro the boot.

  23. coasty141 on May 29th, 2008 10:19 am

    21.) Seriously, WS home field advantage is riding on the all-star game. What manager wouldn’t want Cairo on his squad?
    I can see the situation now… 2-2 tie, no outs, top of the eighth Chipper Jones on 1B and Jose Reyes steps up to the plate in an obvious bunting situation. What’s the AL manager do? Pulls Youkilis and inserts Cairo. Reyes bunts Cairo fields and throws him out at first. The crowd goes wild!

  24. docmarsh on May 29th, 2008 10:23 am

    I think it makes sense to give Cairo some credit for playing some great 1B defense. I can only occasionally watch the games, but in the last four days, I have seen him make four or five plays that none of our other 1b options would have made. I had no idea his defense was that good.

    Credit for his defense is given…he doesn’t suck as bad as Sexson. Just because he is marginally better than Sexson doesn’t say much. I watched him blow the throw to second Bedard’s beautiful pickoff move…the ball was at least 4 feet to the left of second base (my seats are right down the first to second baseline)…I still can’t believe they credited a SB…was an E-3 for sure.

  25. b_rider on May 29th, 2008 10:26 am

    His bat is definitely atrocious, but ALL of our 1B options are awful (possible exception being Ibanez at 1b). If he can play good defense out there and make some minimal contributions with the bat, its not the end of the world if we have Cairo at 1b for a week.

    The flaw with that argument, if nothing else, is that Bloomquist is better than Cairo offensively and defensively. If you are going to give up on getting any offense from a prime offensive position, you might as well use Willie. Cairo is pointless, except for perhaps his sparkling personality. And boy, his personality must sparkle.

  26. joser on May 29th, 2008 10:29 am

    I don’t think you would be provoking retribution to suggest that Cairo offers more defensively at 1B than anyone else who has played that position for the M’s in the past couple of years. Considering you’re talking about “tree falling over” Sexson and “potted plant” Vidro, that’s a very low bar. The problem, as Dave has pointed out more than one, is that it’s not hard to find guys who can do that, and AAA is littered with league-minimum guys who can match Cairo on defense and put up better numbers at the plate.

  27. bakomariner on May 29th, 2008 10:33 am

    I honestly would be fine with Cairo at first just for his defense if there weren’t the other problems going on…most teams have a light hitting defensive specialist at at LEAST one position…but having his week bat to go along with WLAD, Vidro, etc. is not something we need…

  28. metz123 on May 29th, 2008 10:34 am

    A good throw would have nailed Ellesbury, a decent throw would have resulted in a bang-bang play, Cairo’s throw was definitely an error IMO because even if Yuny had caught it, Jacoby would have been safe at 2nd because it was way too far toward 3rd base. No way Yuni was going to get the tag down in time on that throw.

    And I think Morrow could easily hit a 60-70 pitch count limit only throwing 2 pitches. His fastball (when he locates it) is explosive. Rather than learning another pitch, he’d be better served learning to get command of his fastball and being able to throw a single breaking ball for strikes (when needed). Guys that can throw 98 mph don’t need 4 pitches. Randy Johnson only has 2, Clemens only had 2, Ryan only had 2. You bring the heat 85% of the time and throw the other pitch 15%.

  29. bratman on May 29th, 2008 10:39 am

    Sad state of affairs when your best option at 1st base is Miguel Cairo.

  30. pygmalion on May 29th, 2008 10:39 am

    I think I’d prefer Sexson’s power to Cairo’s defense. And his OBP is higher too. Despite how poorly Sexson is hitting, his OPS+ is 92. Cairo’s is 31.

    You would need to be either Superman or the Flash to make up for offense that bad with your defense while playing first base.

  31. bakomariner on May 29th, 2008 10:42 am

    29- Very sad…let’s morph Cairo’s defense with Richie’s power, Willie’s speed, and Vidro’s 2007 average!

    Now that’s my 2008 Mariner All-Star vote!

  32. Colm on May 29th, 2008 10:49 am

    Yeah, between the four of them we have one decent player. It’s a shame it takes four roster spots and $20M+ to get there. For that sort of investment we could (almost) have had A-Rod back.

  33. jro on May 29th, 2008 10:54 am

    These wins accomplished nothing more than emboldening the F.O. to stick to the original plan. They only react, they never act.

  34. bratman on May 29th, 2008 10:59 am

    33 – that is my one fear as well … please don’t give this F.O. hope … it is only a fools hope and this ain’t the movies.

    If this team made moves for next year, then I am all for winning. Just don’t let them keep this idea that we are contenders.

  35. Yeti Park on May 29th, 2008 11:01 am

    Will Jose Lopez get any all-star consideration? I think he has started to return to his old form and has stepped up to the number 2 role.

    His game winner two nights back made me forget about the rest of the season for at least a couple of hours, topped off with the nail biter last night… I’ll be in a good mood until at least tomorrow.

  36. bakomariner on May 29th, 2008 11:01 am

    The only thing to make them change is for attendance to absolutely plummet, be in dead last in the majors or like a 20 game losing streak to go into the AS break…

  37. jlc on May 29th, 2008 11:07 am

    I thought of Morrow when I read this:

    Don’t be irreplaceable. If you can’t be replaced, you can’t be promoted.

    Definitely a con for him.

  38. msb on May 29th, 2008 11:10 am

    PRO: Richie & Willie get more time to plan another wacky paintball outing.

    CON: oh, wait, they already have all that time on the bech to do that.

  39. zzyzx on May 29th, 2008 11:12 am

    Has anyone noticed the team by team breakdown of the all star game starters yet? Right now it’s:

    DH – Red Sox
    1B – Red Sox
    2B – Red Sox
    SS – Yankees
    3B – Yankees
    C – Red Sox
    OF – Red Sox
    OF – M’s
    OF – Angels

    7/9 of the starters come not just from the AL East, but from two teams. Not one person in the AL Central is worthy of starting according to the votes so far and the leads are pretty large; Pudge is the only player right now who’s close enough to sneak in.

    If sanity doesn’t return to the lineups – and yes, the Red Sox are good but a team with 5 starting All Stars and a good pitching staff shouldn’t at least have a .600 winning percentage – I suspect Selig might have to jump in. Here’s another problem with all Yankees/Red Sox all the time.

  40. bratman on May 29th, 2008 11:14 am

    39 – is that surprising after seeing Red Sox nation show up in masses to the Safe during the week?

  41. zzyzx on May 29th, 2008 11:16 am

    40 – didn’t say it was surprising, I said it’s a problem.

  42. nwtrev on May 29th, 2008 11:19 am

    2- What? I’m not sure what you are talking about. But I was at the game monday in Sec 327 and a few sections over a guy had apparently proposed to his girl and she said yes and they were locking lips for the better part of two innings while the attendants watched.

  43. bakomariner on May 29th, 2008 11:19 am

    The voting of players from fans is ridiculous if it affects the World Series…idiots vote for their favorite home-town players that don’t deserve it or they vote on past accomplishments…How many times has Jeter been the starter in the AS Game but statistically wasn’t even in the top 5 at his position?

    Letting the fans see whomever they want to see is fine, but this popularity contest should have nothing to do with the World Series.

  44. skipoar on May 29th, 2008 11:26 am

    You’re right. Ichiro’s a candidate. So is Brad Wilkerson (as an M), so I think I’ll vote for him. Voting for Ichiro is what’s wrong with the All-Star Game. It should be for players who deserve to go, and this is the first year that he does not.

  45. msb on May 29th, 2008 11:34 am

    Has anyone noticed the team by team breakdown of the all star game starters yet?

    looks pretty normal to me.

  46. zzyzx on May 29th, 2008 11:48 am

    45 – a division breakdown of 4 – 2- 2 is a lot better than 7-0-2.

  47. nwtrev on May 29th, 2008 11:50 am

    2, 42 – I saw the new post about this. I hadn’t heard about it before.

  48. msb on May 29th, 2008 12:02 pm

    sigh. the “Beltre is a bust” discussion is underway on KJR. He isn’t “a difference-maker”, you know.

  49. joser on May 29th, 2008 12:06 pm

    Voting for Ichiro is what’s wrong with the All-Star Game. It should be for players who deserve to go, and this is the first year that he does not.

    No, what’s wrong* with the voting is that it only considers a couple of months’ play. If people had any sense, they’d be voting on what players have accomplished since the last allstar vote, or at leas since the allstar game, which in this case would be ~July 07 until now (during which Ichiro was a .321 \ .368 \ .394 hitter which I’d say is deserving of a trip to the allstar game, even before you factor in his defense).

    * Not the only thing that’s wrong with the voting, obviously, not to mention what’s arguably wrong with voting in allstars in the first place.

  50. DMZ on May 29th, 2008 12:14 pm

    No, what’s wrong* with the voting is that it only considers a couple of months’ play.

    No it doesn’t. They don’t tell you you can only consider the season-to-date.

  51. Broadcast James on May 29th, 2008 12:23 pm

    #35… On Lopez…

    So I decided to use WPA as my basis for choosing all-stars this year. This excludes defense, but since when was the all-star game about defense? WPA makes sense (to me) for choosing all-stars. Remember it’s the “All-Star Game”, not the “All-The-Best-Players Game”. :)

    So after sorting by position, and removing the Yankees and the Red Sox players… I have BOTH Lopez and Betancourt getting votes. Since this isn’t the “list out your all-star votes message board”, I’ll just say I have 2 Twins, 2 Mariners, an Oriole, one White Sox dude, two Texans, and an Athletic. I also did 3 SPs a lefty Setup, a righty and a closer, and let’s just say none of them are Mariners.

    btw…. If I hadn’t excluded the Red Sox and Yankees, only Pedroia, Matsui and Manny would have received votes. So yeah #39, 7/9 is a bit high. (And one of MY three not getting in, so there’s that)

    (I’m starting to hate the Red Sox more than the Yankees)

  52. joser on May 29th, 2008 12:34 pm

    No it doesn’t. They don’t tell you you can only consider the season-to-date.

    Right, but that’s all most of the fans who do the voting actually consider. At least, that’s the case for the vast majority I’ve ever talked to about it. The hardcore fans who actually know what’s going on in the other league and outside their division, and can tell you about an underappreciated relief pitcher in Pittsburgh, are not those people. They’re vastly outnumbered by the folks who just go by the web gems they’ve seen the past couple of months, and maybe by how the players in their fantasy league are doing so far.

    Heck, I remember reading (and being astonished by) a Tom Verducci mailbag where, in response to a reader question, he admitted he didn’t consider the last half of the previous season when making his all-star picks.

  53. DMZ on May 29th, 2008 12:36 pm

    Ah, I understand the distinction.

  54. joser on May 29th, 2008 12:48 pm

    Yeah, it’s not a structural flaw in the vote, it’s a cognitive flaw in the people doing the voting.

  55. msb on May 29th, 2008 1:01 pm

    PRO: Baltimore loves The Pear

    CON: Baltimore loves The Pear.

  56. Slippery Elmer on May 29th, 2008 1:38 pm

    So, is it too early to declare the Baek DFA a success? ;-)

  57. bratman on May 29th, 2008 2:09 pm

    Pro: We don’t have to watch these guys tonight.
    Con: We will be reading how many other successful teams use Sabermetrics.

    Theo Epstein graduated from University of San Diego Law
    Bill Bavasi graduated from University of San Diego …

    They should practically be the same person, right?

    oh yeah, Theo did undergrad at Yale (minor footnote).

    oh yeah, Theo also hired Bill James and Eric Van as analysts.

    Oh yeah, Bill Bavasi …. uhh …. hired

    It’s not like Theo has any rings to show for the stupidity of hiring James and Van or anything.

  58. msb on May 29th, 2008 2:11 pm

    aaaaaaaaaaaand the day after brings us Ian Furness once again obsessing about Bedard & the media.

  59. bratman on May 29th, 2008 2:16 pm

    58 -

    on a side note, last night Nelly sided with Bedard on not having Joh as his catcher.

    To paraphrase:

    “Bedard doesn’t say much anyways, and having a catcher that already lacks some communication skills can really end up hurting a guy like Bedard.”

    If the guy doesn’t want to talk – who cares. If he throws like last night is that not enough?

  60. msb on May 29th, 2008 2:18 pm

    last night we were told success was had because Burke made Bedard throw more change-ups.

    last week we were told Joh was a problem as catcher because he asked the pitchers to throw more breaking pitches than fast balls.

  61. bratman on May 29th, 2008 2:34 pm

    from 2006 re: manny trade rumors:

    From Rotoworld:
    Michael Silverman says the Mariners refused to part with J.J. Putz and Adam Jones and apparently made Putz untouchable in talks. So, Putz, a soon-to-be 30-year-old reliever with a career ERA of 3.47 in 205 innings, cannot be had in trade talks, but Rafael Soriano, a soon-to-be 27-year-old reliever with a 2.89 ERA in 171 innings,

    can be had for a No. 4 starter

    . Genius.

    I guess he got his wish with Horrible Horacio

    Also MSB we were told on December 7 of 2006:

    “Our goal coming to the winter meetings was to get help in our starting rotation and that’s what we did today,” Bavasi said. “Horacio is a young left-handed starter who makes us better immediately.”

    Don’t you love it.

  62. bratman on May 29th, 2008 2:39 pm

    Sorry for the poor HTML layout

  63. msb on May 29th, 2008 3:01 pm

    oh, apparently Bedard could be a jerk if he was being “what a number one starter is”.

  64. bratman on May 29th, 2008 3:08 pm

    63- did ferness say that?

  65. joser on May 29th, 2008 3:15 pm

    Yeah (as I mentioned in the game thread) the AP guy was pissy because Bedard makes his job harder:

    Fastballs that flew past Boston’s flailing bats. Curves sharp enough to break the will of the Red Sox . Then, diving cut fastballs and tricky changeups.

    So this is why Seattle traded five players to Baltimore for Erik Bedard.

    ”It was all right,” Bedard (4-3) said with a shrug of the shoulders.

    The ace of few words gave more insight to whomever he was text messaging at his locker for five minutes instead of answering questions from the media.

    Bummer, Mr AP guy. I guess instead of showing up half drunk and stoned to have sound bites handed to you you’re going to have to spend a little less of your time surfing for porn one-handed and, I don’t know, actually do a little work for your paycheck.

    I do love the fact that when asked the difference between this start and his (9 run) last start in New York, Bedard’s one-word answer was “Location” — leaving them wondering if he was talking about pitches or geography. With a little tutoring from Ichiro, Bedard has a lot of potential for cryptic hilarity.

  66. bratman on May 29th, 2008 3:18 pm

    Bedard has a lot of potential for cryptic hilarity.

    I am actually starting to love Bedard. Making for some great comedy.

  67. msb on May 29th, 2008 3:37 pm

    tonight one can listen to Curto describe Rainiers vs Fresno baseball, or watch Eric Chavez rehab with the River Cats vs the Beavers on FSN

  68. scott19 on May 29th, 2008 5:59 pm

    “Our goal coming to the winter meetings was to get help in our starting rotation and that’s what we did today,” Bavasi said. “Horacio is a young left-handed starter who makes us better immediately.”

    Well, that move at least did help somebody out…namely, local drug and grocery stores in the Puget Sound area who had a run on OTC stomach meds every time he started a game. :o

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.