Salt Lake sweeps Seattle

Dave · June 4, 2008 at 4:52 pm · Filed Under Mariners 

In the three game series that just ended:

Vladimir Guerrero didn’t have an at-bat
Chone Figgins didn’t have an at-bat
Erick Aybar didn’t have an at-bat
John Lackey didn’t pitch
Kelvim Escobar didn’t pitch

The Angels swept the Mariners in Seattle without their All-Star #1 starter, their All-Star #2 starter, their All-Star right fielder, their starting third baseman, and their starting shortstop.

If you took Felix, Bedard, Ichiro, Beltre, and Betancourt off this team and sent them to go play another major league franchise, they’d lose 104-3. The Angels just played a series without their equivalents to those five guys and swept the Mariners at home.

If you need more evidence that the people who put this team together deserve to be fired, you don’t deserve to be making that decision.


69 Responses to “Salt Lake sweeps Seattle”

  1. CaptainPoopy on June 4th, 2008 6:38 pm

    Mac may not want the players, but he has a say in roster moves. He could have kept Clement up and in the line-up daily. He could play Wlad in RF daily and Reed in LF daily with Raul at DH daily… he chose not to. It’s his decision. I’m not trying to swarm you, but I just think you’re wrong in trying to justify defending him.

    Now if you want to see a manager that was set up to fail, I think you should look at BoMel’s stint here. I don’t think he’s a good manager either, but I’m sure he’s better than Mac… but I really feel that Bavasi gave him the worst possible team.

    We are both in agreement that Bavasi, Armstrong, Lincoln are the real culprits, but because they are does not dismiss Mac’s bad managerial skills.

  2. msb on June 4th, 2008 6:39 pm

    If you listen really hard, you can hear Bedard, Beltre’, and Felix crossing the days off their calendars until their contracts are up and they can get out of town.

    if you asked any of the three if they were playing their best this season, would they sya they were?

  3. CaptainPoopy on June 4th, 2008 6:40 pm

    And Bavasi has at least shown his true spine. He was fired from his previous job because he wouldn’t fire some of his scouts/managers… I forget the details, but you understand. He is very loyal, maybe to a fault. I like the man that Bavasi is, I just don’t like his style.

  4. bratman on June 4th, 2008 6:42 pm

    We are both in agreement that Bavasi, Armstrong, Lincoln are the real culprits, but because they are does not dismiss Mac’s bad managerial skills.

    True and it gets worse and worse to think about it harder… could be the biggest flop in sports history.

  5. CaptainPoopy on June 4th, 2008 6:47 pm

    Somebody compared this team to recent Knicks teams… not far off. I’d say we are worse though. We are one of, if not the biggest, flop in history.

  6. jro on June 4th, 2008 6:52 pm

    the danger with replacing him midseason is that the new guy winds up leading the team to a .500 record

    In the 25 games preceding Armstrong’s “vote of confidence” for Mac (May 7th), the team went 10-15. Since that vote, the team has responded by going 7-18. With no new injuries in that timeframe, the team just played worse.

    The danger of *not* replacing Mac is sending a signal that the status quo is the path to improvement. Normally that’s not been anything to rattle the cages of our fabulous F.O.

    But now, if they don’t make a change, the bigger story will be how they DIDNT make a change. And that will fall squarely on Bavasi, Armstrong and Lincoln.

  7. terry on June 4th, 2008 6:53 pm

    Right now I think the only thing this current regime has proven itself credible at is player development and even then it’s not like their farm needs a flood gate.

    Anyone higher than Bob Fontaine and Co really needs to be kicked to the curb.

  8. sealclubber253 on June 4th, 2008 7:06 pm

    The 7 year old inside me snickered at Johnny Mac’s rant after the game today.

    I am actually very excited about the situation we are in right now. The draft is tomorrow, and the smell of change is in the air.

  9. Tom on June 4th, 2008 7:11 pm

    Gee, thanks John McLaren for having this rant when we are 18 GAMES UNDER .500!!!!!

    And you know what, forget McLaren.

    I will not take anything this team does in the front office seriously anymore unless Nintendo and this 80 year old Japanese owner of ours that has never seen a baseball game and has always treated this team like his toy in his net worth sells this team to an American (preferably local) business group that gives a crap about putting a winner on the field along with being fair to the fans and not overcharging for tickets.

    I am sick and tired of watching this crap YEAR AFTER YEAR and seeing these ticket and concession prices INCREASE.

    Bud Selig may not Mark Cuban to own the Cubs, but he should be pleading him to buy the Mariners who are an American sports franchise owned by an absentee corporation based in Japan that could bring in huge money for the MLB.

    And for those of you who think that’s racism, then you are full of bologna.

    We gave Nintendo a fair chance to own the team and let’s face it, we needed them in the ’90’s when we were trying to survive and to their credit, they did help us survive.

    But lord knows if they keep owning this team, then Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong will continue to run this franchise the way they have for years and years and this franchise’s fan base will dry out and turn to the MLS.

    I don’t want to have to boycott games and root for this team to lose, but if that’s the only way we get an ownership change for the better, then so be it.

  10. bware on June 4th, 2008 7:16 pm

    I know they won’t fire anyone before the draft, but how soon after it could they finally do it? Does firing the manager or GM normally happen just before they leave on a road trip, when they get back from a homestand, or mid-road trip?

    I’m speaking entirely from intuition, and not from experience…

    When to fire the manger – This can happen pretty much at any time, but it would be the height of organizational indignity to fire a manager while on the a road trip. If a firing doesn’t happen before the plane boards for Boston, then don’t expect such a move prior to the M’s returning home.

    When to fire the GM – This is much more complex. First of all, a decision has to be made regarding whether to retool (failure due to players’ underperformance) or rebuild (organizational failure). Since the M’s basically endorsed Bavasi’s vision at the end of last season, it would be very difficult to recant that wisdom (i.e. move to rebuild) so soon thereafter. In either case, a midseason GM firing is highly unlikely, but possible (see below). It’s easier to fire the manager and one/more of the coaches midseason, effectively laying the failure at their feet. This is the most likely scenario.

    If the decision is to retool, then the GM might be fired midseason if there is a belief that the season could be rescued with a few shrewd player personnel decisions. In this case, the GM is fired so as to eliminate the risk that the effect of decisions hereinafter will mirror decisions heretofore.

    If the decision is to rebuild, then the GM might be fired midseason if (i) it is cost effective to do so, and (ii) there is an inside track or head-start path to desirable GM candidates. GMs usually have buyout provisions in their contract, so the likelihood of firing is greater when the GM has at least one more season left beyond the current season. Moreover, if the GM were fired midseason, you can best believe that upper mgmt has their eye on a few candidates and got some tamper-proof skinny to work with.

    Based on what I see so far, my educated guess is that the death watch is on for MacLauren and staff, and that Bavasi will be shown the door at season’s end.

  11. shemberry on June 4th, 2008 7:17 pm

    > How did we get from 95′ to here? I mean, I know how, I just don’t know how.

    I don’t understand why people keep bringing up a season from 13 years ago. If it was four years ago, okay. But how can ‘95 even be relevant? 13 years is a long time, with much turnover in upper management (and, of course, total turnover in players.)

    I didn’t live in Seattle in ‘95 and didn’t follow the team then, so maybe it’s a “you had to be there!” feeling for longtime fans?

    When I move here in 2001 (good year to start following the M’s, I know :-), I couldn’t believe how often people referenced ‘95, and more specifically, “The Double”, also known as “The Double That Saved Baseball in Seattle.” I’m 100% pro-feelgood stories and happy endings, but it was weird how much that came up, several years down the line…


    What I meant by my comment was this. I never thought 95 would be that one season we would look back on with fondness. We had Jr., A-ROD, Bone, Edgar, RJ, etc. We were getting a new stadium so there would be $$$ to go with all of that talent. I really believed this organization was on the brink of becoming an elite franchise.

    I am not longing for those days, I am wondering how on earth we took that kind of momentum and talent, added some cash, and in 13 years turned it into the Baltimore Orioles under Angelos.

  12. Nate on June 4th, 2008 7:18 pm

    um, I don’t get your Nintendo rant. it’s not like the owner is only allowing a $38M payroll. the resources are there. staffing/players are not his responsiblity.
    I’m sure I don’t understand the situation well, but I can’t imagine it’s the owner that needs to change to fix things.


  13. CaptainPoopy on June 4th, 2008 7:20 pm

    1995 kept baseball in Seattle. It made Seattleites (as a whole) love baseball and the Mariners. 1995 was a magical year. We all know it’s over and wont ever come back, but it saved Mariner baseball and for that year, most of us will always remember it.

  14. bratman on June 4th, 2008 7:57 pm

    I think McLaren is about the break down mentally.

  15. scraps on June 4th, 2008 8:02 pm

    I don’t think the Sonics organization compares to the Knicks for incompetence. The Knicks are as bad a team as the Mariners, but they’re also the highest-payroll team in basketball, have all the advantages of being in New York, and are crippled in their ability to fix the problem for years. Their failure is the most colossal I can remember in major sports in my lifetime. Unlike the Mariners, they don’t even have anything to build around. The Knicks are the pyrite standard for ineptitude.

  16. scraps on June 4th, 2008 8:03 pm

    Sonics??? Um, I meant Mariners.

  17. Tom on June 4th, 2008 8:17 pm


    Think it through. If we had a real owner, do you think Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong would have their jobs after this season and do you think Bill Bavasi would have his job right now? Of course not.

    A real owner would fire people for all the years of losing to call for accountability.

    But guess what ladies and gentlemen, it ‘aint happenin’.

    Because like I said, this team is owned by an absentee corporation from Japan and a 80 year old from Japan who has never even bothered to fly out to Seattle to see a Mariners game and probably couldn’t tell the difference between a baseball and a kumquat and only owns this team so that his net worth will increase.

    It all makes me frickin’ sick.

    Just watch, McLaren will eventually be the sacrificial lamb but Bavasi, Armstrong, Lincoln will all be back. Just watch.

  18. mremis on June 5th, 2008 12:02 am

    Erick Aybar is an all star? Where have I been?

  19. Karen on June 5th, 2008 4:46 am

    Speaking of All-Stars, I’ll bet the Mariners are reduced to one of those teams who contribute only one “token” player, and it might not even be Ichiro. Probably Beltre, who’ll get to man 3B defensively in the late innings after ARod sucks up all the adulation and attention, and ABs.

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