The first head rolls
DMZ · June 9, 2008 at 10:25 am · Filed Under Mariners
Hot word this morning is Pentland’s been fired. Possibly that Lee Elia, who totally rocks, is taking his place.
Which is crazy, since just last week they’d completed the benching-and-reteaching of Sexson with such success, and the — yeah, you know the whole rest of the joke here already.
I was going to make a historical analogy with the Reign of Terror, but interestingly (to me, anyway) I couldn’t figure out who the first person to put their head on a block that September was.
Anyway, at least the Jacobins had the good sense to get the King first, rather than going after his undersecretary for cobblestone supply.
So Baek, then Pentland… Who’s next?
I think we need Yamauchi to show up.
If that Lee Elia (of Cubs fame)comes on board, I hope he realizes that those attending day games at Safeco not only have jobs but they most likely make more than he does……
So who makes that decision? Is it Bavasi or Armstrong or Lincoln?
I’m sure they do it by committee, but who has final say in these matters? Given how everyone runs around over there, I can’t determine who’s in charge of which cast of characters.
right … take it out on Pentland … they might as well fire the Mariner Moose next.
It’s a pretty meaningless move in a vacuum, and I actually feel a little bad for Pentland since he wasn’t exactly given much to work with.
Hopefully it presages more to come.
I’m glad to have Lee Elia back in the fold. Whatever affect a hitting coach can have…Elia was here during some great offensive years for the M’s.
But this is a pretty meaningless and silly move unless the team is seriously considering using him as interim manager when they fire McLaren in a couple of weeks. Here’s to hoping…
The way this team is run, it is a wonder Willie still has a job.
But I think I heard someone on the postgame show the other day list their untouchables as Felix, Ichiro & Willie.
All the heads except the ones who really need to roll will get axed.
But then who would run over Coco Crisp?
Shields? I would like to see that dirty player get run over again …
or at least I need to stop hearing all of this Boston nepotism with the damn Sox, Pats and Celts.
Maybe Lee Elia will teach McLaren to rant properly.
Also: lots of rumors about Bedard to Philly. Sounds like overhaul time
> But then who would run over Coco Crisp?
I think the torch has already been passed to Carl Crawford, Designated Cornrow Tugger for the Rays. Crisp was the first notch in his glove…
what is your source on this? Say it ‘aint so.
If we get rid of Bedard, Adam Jones will haunt me for eternity.
Wasn’t it, rather famously, Marie Antoinette?
I can only find information about beat writers and fans discussing Bedard-to-Philly, which has been happening since last winter. That looks more like speculative wishful-thinking than rumors to me.
So Pentland is the first sacficial goat? What would his eulogy be?
A good craftsman doesn’t blame his tools?
Measure once, cut twice?
I couldn’t polish a turd?
This will change EVERYTHING!
I have been furious at Pentland for years now. Ever since his Soriano trade, really. And then his terrible judgment in trading away Adam Jones. I mean, what was Pentland thinking with the whole Everett fiasco, the Carlos Guillen silliness, the Freddy disaster.
And all the times he has had Vidro batting in the heart of the order even though he can’t hit. His insistence on running Raul out in left field, even though he can’t catch.
I mean, Cairo, for godssake! Personal catchers! The list of Pentland’s failings is long and depressing.
I say good riddance Jeff Pentland! You have ruined my favorite team.
Everything will be better now. Everything.
Thus endeth the terror of the reign of Jeff Pentland.
If the Bedard to Philly thing has any legs (which it doesn’t from anything I’ve seen), it’ll probably get its own post at some point.
This post, however, isn’t it.
Didn’t Pentland help Jose Lopez? I guess he did something good.
When given vets, what was he supposed to do? I can see where Richie listened to his advice but who cares? Yep, fire the hitting coach. Does this mean Mac’s stupid rant was bullcocky? He said the PLAYERS would be the ones to pay.
Yep, I bet Mac looks even dumber to everybody right now.
well, among the local beat writers…. Dunno if that really counts.
Quote from the official press release:
“Jeff has an excellent and proven track record, and those of us who have worked with him are well aware he knows hitting.” said Bavasi. “Unfortunately, we have consistently, and for an extended period, underperformed at the plate and we are hopeful that a different voice might help the situation.”
Too early. The Reign of Terror only gets going in September 1793.
Welcome to Baseball Hell everybody.
If I were Jeff Pentland, here would be my quote to the media:
“There isn’t a hitting coach alive who can speed up the reflexes of an aging batter.”
[dupe]
So Bill Bavasi is cast in the role of Robespierre?
“Too early. The Reign of Terror only gets going in September 1793.’
Yeah, I don’t know then
Jason Stark was on KJR with Mitch around 9am and Mitch and one of them brought up Bedard-to-Philly. That’s the first I’d heard or seen of the rumor.
Problem is, Bedard doesn’t have nearly the value he did when Bavasi traded for him…and Bavasi overpaid for him even then. We can’t get anything like the same value we gave up in return on that trade and are probably best off waiting until he peels off a string of “ace-like” wins before trying to deal him. If he goes on a run before the trade deadline, though, he might be the top pitcher on the market. The team should definitely consider getting something for him in that instance.
But the team will no doubt assume it will be a contender next year and won’t want to give up its “1-2 punch” and Bedard’s aceness. Stark mentioned that he’d spoken to an M’s official that said something like “Any manager that trades Bedard after just acquiring him is indicting himself.” Yeah, and he might also be doing the best thing for the team.
Sunk cost, Mr. Unnamed Source. Sunk cost.
Well said. We’re setup perfectly for “bag-over-the-bobblehead” night sometime this year.
ok, let’s see.
In our previously established analogy comparing the position of Mariner Hitting Instructor with the position of teaching Defence Against the Dark Arts, Pentland was Mad-Eye Moody/Barty Crouch, so I guess Elia is Dolores Umbridge …
So Pentland gets canned because he has to deal with a bunch of players on the obvious downside of their careers and he can’t do anything to slow the regression?
So Pentland gets canned because he has to deal with a bunch of players on the obvious downside of their careers and he can’t do anything to slow the regression?
You know the old three envelopes story*? “Fire a coach” was in the second envelope that Hargrove gave MacLaren.
* http://www.notboring.com/jokes/work/3.htm
I thoroughly enjoyed Rotoworld’s take on the firing:
Mariners fired hitting coach Jeff Pentland.
The Mariners have the game’s worst record despite a top-10 payroll, and it’s obviously Pentland’s fault. He’ll know better next time not to overpay for Richie Sexson, Carlos Silva, Miguel Batista and Jarrod Washburn. Also, he never should have traded for Jose Vidro and put together a ridiculous bench that included Miguel Cairo and Willie Bloomquist. And that’s glossing over his biggest mistake of all: he saw two lesbians kissing at Safeco Field and did absolutely nothing to stop them. Lee Elia, his replacement, is very capable of putting the fans in their place when he needs to.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=SEA
Wait – what happens to the Pepe Vidro commercial!??
Yes, this is a bit like building a sewage treatment plant in downtown Seattle, then firing one of maintenance guys that works there when people begin to notice the smell.
Watching this team’s management is like watching The Sicilian in The Princess Bride.
“Move the thing! No, the other thing! Move it!”
“Did I make it clear that your job is at stake?”
“You were supposed to be this colossus. You were this great, legendary thing. And yet he gains!”
“I do not accept excuses. I’m just going to have to find myself a new giant, that’s all.”
ARRGGGGHHHHHHHHHH
i dont think I can stand another 4 months of this season. it has been downhill since 2003 and we are still free falling.
Wait another year? I don’t want to hear that crap again – I am getting too old.
33- beautifully said.
Don’t talk about Bedard rumors…
So if Pentland is at fault for the shitty offense, is Mel next because of the shitty pitching?
And who will be fired for the shitty defense?
Why fire just one guy? Gut this dead fish already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bruce Lee could train a one legged man for three years, and he’d still lose every ass kicking contest he entered against two legged men.
For all of you relying on Wikipedia to guess Marie Antoinette, that seems to have been a recently introduced error which I’ve just removed. The generally accepted date for the start of the Terror is apparently September 5 (though I’m not sure why that particular date), and she was executed in October.
Ha! And he doesn’t sound like he’s reading from a script. If you haven’t heard this rant, it’s a &^%$# classic. It’s uncensored — full of profanity from the beginning — so plug in your headphones if you’re at work.
This is like beheading the staff of the royal boulangerie to make up for all that bread/cake confusion.
#27: Did Stark actually say any “manager” that trades Bedard? I’m all for blaming McLaren for a lot of things, but responsibility for the Bedard trade or retrade isn’t one of them.
Yes, she was. And it was in Sept. 1793. She really spawned it all. Sort of. And if Bavasi is Robespierre, we can look forward to his demise in 11 months.
that would have to be Perlozzo & Rodriguez.
This should be a signal to Stottlemyre, Perlozzo, Rodriguez, Charlton, etc., that they need to both coach smarter and harder. They’ve been pressing all year, but they need to get their act together ASAP.
“The first guillotining took place on April 25, 1792, when Nicolas Jacques Pelletie was guillotined at Place de Grève on the Right Bank.”
from the history of the guillotine
The civilian assembly rewrote the penal code and required beheading for everyone (equality!) several years earlier.
“COACH HARDER” he says.
Did we just improve our veteran grittiness by ditching Pentland (age 61) for Elia (age 70)? Bavasi continues to work his magic.
Why not, at the rate the M’s are going, they’ll be the Cubs of the AL pretty soon. Lovable (or not) Losers, with 3000 fans and lots of 5-14 starts.
But we could use “multifold” changes in the organization, that’s for sure.
I was so hoping that “the first head to roll” was going to be a player…coaches can only do so much…you have talent to coach or you don’t…you give Torre this team, and they will still suck…this is by no means a defense for Mac; he is terrible, but for things to go right, we need better players…if Pentland had Pujols, Utley, A-Rod, etc., he wouldn’t have been canned because we’d be winning…
Cut players, fire coaches, get new FO…blow this thing up…
I’m pretty sure this is more of a Reign of Error than Terror, if the best they can do is fire the hitting coach.
#47 The guillotine did not spawn the Reign of Terror. They just used it. Alot.
Reporter: “Coach, it’s nice to have you back in Seattle. Can you shed a little light on what your first steps as the new M’s hitting coach will be?”
Elia: “Well, first things first. I want to see some tears out of Ibanez. We’ll work from there.”
Well, the title of the post is “The first head rolls”.
I’d be surprised if we don’t see more moves, and quickly.
The guillotine did not spawn the Reign of Terror. They just used it.
You’re right enough about that, but you’re still wrong about Marie Antoinette.
I don’t know how much a hitting coach’s philosophy matters when we’re talking about major league hitters, but one of the most frustrating things about the Pentland term as hitting coach is that it seemed to coincide with the Mariner’s being hackmasters and absolutely refusing to work the count. We were a less aggressive hitting team when Lee Elia was hitting coach. Of course, there is a world of difference between working with Edgar Martinez and working with Yuniesky Betancourt, however, I can’t say I’m unhappy with the decision. A baby step, perhaps, but hopefully a step nonetheless. We have to start somewhere….
I’d be surprised if we don’t see more moves, and quickly.
Define quickly. I’d be surprised if much more happens before the end of interleague play.
My approximate timeline is that the team doesn’t get blow up before the All Star break, with a possible exception being Clement getting called up.
Hitting coaches are the second most overrated position in all of baseball (next to “Bench Coach” which is where you put Hall of Famers that don’t want to do much besides watch baseball from real close.
I don’t feel too bad for Pentland, as hitting instruction at the major league level is akin to Snake-oil salesman, I’m sure he’ll get picked up somewhere and make more than enough money to support his family nicely.
I’m not sure if this is the first domino or if it is a stall.
If the team starts hitting now, just as a coincidence, and winning… then maybe they avoid getting themselves fired.
“See, HE was the problem, not the players I brought in or the manager that misused them! Thank God everything is ok now.”
Each desperate, small, wormy little move like this can be an attempt to get lucky and save your own skin.
Pentland wasn’t the problem and whoever decided he should be fired… shame on you.
Unless everyone is getting fired. But if so, why leave Pentland hanging out there alone right now to get all the abuse? Why not be honorable and put everyone responsible out there?
I was wrong that Marie was too early, sorry — clearly, it’s too *late* as she died October 16th, 1793. My fault.
Oh, and Lee Elia is not being brought in to be the hitting coach. He’s being brought in to be the interim manager in a few weeks, the same way that McLaren was Hargrove’s understudy.
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2008/06/pentland_fired.html
Some might say a different first baseman, DH and right fielder might help the situation. But that bullet is apparently going to be saved for later. That’s what these types of firings are for, as I just mentioned. To buy time. The notion that anything will be fixed by naming Lee Elia as hitting coach is a little laughable. Elia told me before the season that he was not interested in getting back into baseball full-time. That his wife would never allow it. He said this half humorously, of course. But there is always some truth in every bit of humor.
Elia is not the solution. He’s 70 years old and isn’t going to be in this for the long haul, even if the team does luck out and finds Elia can “help the situation”. He is a band-aid on a shrapnel woun
My thinking is that he’s a good candidate for interim manager on a 3 month deal, with the understanding that everyone is going out the Kremlin window come October anyway.
But the King died first, no? (pre-”Terror” but surely offing the monarch set some sort of tone for all that followed later in the year).
Bad luck Jeff Pentland. I guess the title “hitting coach” in basesball is synonymous with “whipping boy”.
I’d definitely define quickly as faster than that, but you might be right. I hope not, but maybe.
Is this just a gut feeling you have? I didn’t see anything about it in the Baker blog post you linked to.
To the barricades! Under the paving stones, the beach!
Oh, wait — wrong revolution.
Yes, the King did die first. And the Wikipedia article can still produce confusion about the sequence, since at one point it mentions this, then immediately goes on to list Marie Antoinette and a bunch of others who were executed after the Terror was already underway. When it’s free of errors, Wikipedia is a highly useful collection of facts about a topic, but sometimes the quality of the writing still has room for improvement.
Is this just a gut feeling you have? I didn’t see anything about it in the Baker blog post you linked to.
It’s a gut feeling, but the M’s hired a coach who has associations with the “glory days” with Lou Piniella and has previous experience as a field manager, and who’s also eligible for Social Security, so I don’t think my speculation is totally out there.
This front office is pretty shameless about milking 1995 and 2001 for all they can get, so assuming that moves like this have an ulterior motive doesn’t seem to be too far out there. For what it’s worth, I called Mac as Hargrove’s replacement when he was hired, as well (though the way it happened was a bit surprising).
Call me crazy, but didn’t this need to happen anyway? Making Pentland the first casualty is debatable, but it only seems to be ludicrous if he’s the only casualty.
Basically, if you’re going to take out the trash, I’m not sure I care about what order the bags are in when they’re thrown in the dump.
Cow farts are to milk production as beat writers’ wild speculation is to rumor.
That bit of nonsense is a personal peeve of mine. Complete BS, but people say it like it is truth. Even people that should be smart enough to know better.
Why I think Baker is smart enough to know better is a legitimate question, though.
Firing from the bottom up generally means that you are stalling or just acting out of desperation. Firing from the top down means you are serious about reform.
I don’t think the Mariners are serious about reform.
Unless firing Pentland doesn’t help, then they keep moving up the ladder.
I spend so much time with this team hoping that what should happen, statistically, does. Like, I hope the hitting doesn’t happen to get better right now, or these maroons will get the wrong idea.
I’m pretty sure this is more of a Reign of Error than Terror
Or — straining to find an analogy equally grim and farcical — it’s rather Beer Hall Putsch
I think that is more the hackmeisters he has been dealing with– it’s not like he hasn’t tried
“McLaren has been acutely aware of his team’s penchant for chasing bad pitches. He and hitting coach Jeff Pentland have tirelessly extolled the virtues of getting a good pitch to hit. “It is something we talked about in the offseason and Jeff has been preaching for a couple of years now”
Well, the Reign of Terror was pretty much a reign of error as well. Getting rid of a King and ending up with an Emperor is not progress. Unless you’re the Emperor, I suppose.
A while back, Dave threw something out in a comment about the M’s organization being inconsistent about certain things they teach kids coming up through the system. One level teaches stuff that the next level needs to undo. He didn’t elaborate (or if he did, I missed it) on just what things these were. I wonder if plate discipline is one of them.
it’s rather Beer Hall Putsch
I’m thinking more like Woody Allen’s Bananas.
I have no idea how much a hitting coach really affects hitting, but take a look at the last several years of M’s statistics regarding bases on balls:
Year BB’s MLB rank Hitting Coach
2000 775 1st Gerald Perry
2001 614 4th Gerald Perry
2002 629 4th Gerald Perry
2003 586 6th Lamar Johnson
2004 492 24th Paul Molitor
2005 466 22nd Don Baylor
2006 404 29th Jeff Pentland
2007 389 30th Jeff Pentland
2008 172 29th Jeff Pentland
Whatever Jeff Pentland was accomplishing as a hitting coach, emphasizing patience at the plate wasn’t a part of it.
No, that would be the nefarious plot Ichiro tipped us off to with the “Papuan beer” secret warning.
Wow:
That’s awful. It’s amusing, too, that the recent trend of hack hack hack starts in 2004.
And in line with my previous post, this front office is a travesty. It’s a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.
Wow, that’s a fantastic comment, Don.
Wasn’t Wilkerson the first head to role? Pentland would be the second. I wonder what the descending order of firings means to a man like Super Bill.
76 – I honestly wonder whether the players have more to do with that stat than Pentland …
I guess we will truly never know.
The roster got worse, too, didn’t it? I’m having trouble envisioning epic chainsmoker Gerald Perry as the champion of plate discipline.
Speaking of Brad Wilkerson, who I’m not trying to defend, he still ranks 6th on the Seattle Mariners with 10 BB’s, despite having played only 19 games. His OBP while with the Mariner’s, .348, is better than any current Mariner player.
He wasn’t the answer in RF, but I honestly couldn’t believe it when the Mariners just cut him. He was actually one of their better offensive weapons….just goes to show how little the Mariner’s value OBP as an offensive measurement, apparently.
How can the Mariners so clearly understand the concept of “replacement level coach” and yet be so unaware regarding “replacement level player”?
Between 2003 and 2004, the biggest change was replacing Cameron with Ibanez. The rest of the decline in walks is mostly attributable to the collapse of Olerud and the fact that it was no longer necessary to pitch Edgar as carefully. And nobody since has filled those three sets of shoes in terms of drawing walks.
#76:
Great summary. If you had showed me the numbers without the names I would have thought you were assessing a Dusty Baker managed team, with Mickey Hatcher as the hitting coach.
So… how long until Clement gets recalled?
Doesn’t look like Pentland had that much influence on BB’s. 2005 was pre-Pentland. These are the only 4 M’s that go back to the pre-Pentland era.
2005 2006 2007 2008
Sexson 89 64 51 19
Ibanez 71 65 53 26
Beltre 38 47 38 27
Ichiro 48 49 49 21
Don, that’s horrific to see it laid out like that. And your second comment at 84 is terrifying. Wilkerson is still SIXTH? You think there’s anyone among the staff or coaches who could tell you how many walks ANY of our players have?
The sad thing is, they will rearrange the chairs a little bit here and there, and then when the team starts to play a little better, as they almost certainly will do, they’ll take credit for it. We’ll win seven of ten at some point and Mac or Bavasi will be in the papers crowing about how the guys are starting to pull together.
There was a letter in the Times this weekend saying that the reason we suck is because we got rid of Jose Guillen, who had chemistry and fired the guys up and wouldn’t take no for an answer and wouldn’t accept mediocrity. I laughed. Then I cried. Then I watched the European Championships and briefly forgot this abortion of a team even exists for a while.
Yuni and Lopez became full-time starters in that span as well, right? So there’s your anti-Edgar and anti-Olerud of plate discipline contributing.
To me, walks have less to do with the hitting coach and more to do with the guy putting together the roster with the caveat that a youngster like Lopez probably is a little more susceptible to tweaking.
71 – Firing from the bottom up generally means that you are stalling or just acting out of desperation. Firing from the top down means you are serious about reform.
It would not surprise me a bit if their approach is to fire from the bottom up and keep going until things coincidentally improve. Then those remaining will have some solid statistical analysis to point to for justification of their moves.
There’s some truth in the personnel changes, but at some point don’t we have to acknowledge that the reason none of the players coming up walk or have any plate discipline to speak of has something to do with the organizational approach and the major league coaches they’ve picked to help?
Betancourt and Lopez (and don’t forget Johjima) had their first full seasons in 2006. So most of the decline in walks had already happened, but in terms of providing the complete opposite of the 2001 squad, their inability to walk has cemented the team at the bottom, yes.
EC,
You could say the same thing for Sammy Perlozzo since he was a coach here under Piniella.
I think they’ll just give the job to Riggleman as he has a good reputation working with young players. He may not have been a SUCCESSFUL manager, but I’ve read that he likes working with kids.
Elia is more of the same but if he’s here much like Jack McKeon was in Florida many years ago, I am fine with that (except McKeon turned his team around and got reupped, Elia doesn’t have a prayer with this bunch).
Apparently Pentland talked a lot for the last few years about patience, and getting your pitch to hit, etc etc etc– we saw it work for, what, 2 weeks? at the start of the season, and then everyone forgot.
speaking of heads rolling, why the heck didn’t Elise get the midday gig? I can’t take another day of Ian obsessing about Bedard.
Both Balentien and Clement have shown improvements in plate discipline as they’ve progressed through the minors, but their “failure” so far at the major league level means we haven’t seen it have an impact. I’m more inclined to see this as not something where the coach matters all that much (about as much as managers do). Although the organizational philosophy is certainly important, but it’s reflected in the choice of players as well as the instruction being given.
Good one, Mike Snow, Yuni and Lopez are our cement boots in the sea of plate discipline! Yeeehaaawww!
I agree that the philosophy of the hitter is a key factor. However, how the organization values offensive components and the offensive philosophies is also important. The Mariner’s decline follows their propensity to take a walk. It therefore seems logical to assume that the propensity to take a walk is not valued as much by the organization as it was 7-8 years ago. While that may be an organizational problem, the statistics seem to reflect that the problem has gotten worse at the major league level with Jeff Pentland as the hitting coach.
I can’t definitively say if he’s to blame, or how much, but I can understand removing him being a defensible action. It’s also a move that is easily made in the middle of a season, even one as lost as this one. The more significant changes, including the replacement of the GM, is more easily made during the off-season, or at least after the trading deadline.
I was going to make a historical analogy with the Reign of Terror, but interestingly (to me, anyway) I couldn’t figure out who the first person to put their head on a block that September was.
You find me without my historical sources at work, so I’ll respond later if I get to better information. The Revolution was set on the path to the reign of terror before the King was killed, but The Reign of Terror is historically marked to have begun on Sept. 5, 1793. One could argue that these below were among the first to go. Not your major players:
1 – Jean-Baptiste Henry, aged 18, journeyman tailor, convicted of having sawn down a tree of liberty, executed 6th September,1793.
2 – Marie Plaisant, seamstress, convicted of having exclaimed that she was an aristocrat and that she did not care a fig for the nation, condemned to death and executed the same day.
3 – Henriette Francoise Marboeuf, aged 55, convicted of having hoped for the arrival of the Austrians and Prussians and of keeping food for them, condemned to death and executed the same day.
4 – Francois Bertrand, aged 37, publican, convicted of
having provided the defenders of the country with sour wine, condemned and executed the same day.
5 – Jean Julien, wagoner having been sentenced to twelve years hard labour, took it into his head to cry ‘long live the king’, brought back to the Tribunal and condemned to death.
The Mariners need to keep firing coaches so we can keep having good comment threads like this one.
Or, once they run out of coaches, maybe the peanut vendors?
I went to the historical stats to try and prove that Perry was the reason the walks and OBP stats were good in his tenure here, and bad since… but the data doesn’t support my theory. Perry’s team stats since he left Seattle (all ranks for ML):
2003 (Oak): 10th in walks, 21 in OBP
2004 (Pit): 30th in walks, 22 in OBP
2005 (Pit): 21st in walks, 25 in OBP
2006 (Pit): 26th in walks, 26 in OBP
2007 (CHC): 26th in walks, 18 in OBP
2008 (CHC): 2nd in walks, 1 in OBP
So, it depends on your team. He was unsurprisingly ranked pretty high with the A’s, unsurprisingly low with the Pirates, and has shown good success with the Cubs this year. The major difference with the Cubs this year is that Fukudome and Soto are getting all of the at bats at their respective position and Soriano was hurt for a month.
Baker talks with Elia; you can watch Elia coach Edgar at BP here
Scooter the Beer Guy.
Well, you could look at it this way…
When Perry was the M’s hitting coach, they were among the best in the game at drawing walks.
When Perry was with the A’s, they were in the top third of the majors in walks. During his year as the hitting coach, they improved from 16th in the majors in BB’s in 2002 to 10th. (They ranked 6th in 2004)
When Perry was with the Pirates, they improved their walk rate.
When Perry was with the Cubs, they dramatically improved their walk rate.
I submit that there are other ways to interpret the info, and not all interpretations would necessarily be favorable to Perry. I would also submit that improving the patience at the plate is an acquired skill and there may be a lag between assuming the role and seeing results.
I would also submit that it would be extremely difficult to reach a tangible conclusion regarding the effectiveness of a hitting coach. But, we might as well keep trying to understand this great game.
interesting note from Drayer
Bavasi seems to be pretty clear that Elia will be teaching the same stuff Pentland did, just offering a different voice. So even if Pentland was doing something wrong that contributed to the lack of offense, they’re not actually attempting to fix that.
106 – This ship is going down faster than the titanic. A sheer disaster on all levels.
Sniff. I love you guys. 15 full posts so far about the historical facts of the Reign of Terror. And then all those historical facts about the M’s, too.
Since the AL went to the DH in 1973, only seven teams have drawn 405 or fewer team walks in a full season. 2 of those 7 are the 2006 and 2007 version of our Seattle Mariners. I’ve put the number of wins in parentheses; the 2007 Mariners are the only team on the list to have a winning record.
1. 363, 2002 Detroit (55)
2. 383, 1975 Detroit (57)
3. 384, 2005 Detroit (71)
4. 389, 2007 Seattle (88)
5. 397, 1983 Kansas City (79)
6. 399, 1980 Chicago (70)
7. 404, 2006 Seattle (78)
Good idea, wrong person.
“I have been told by a couple of guys however, that with some guys, it has been hard to get them to the cages. In other words, Pentland worked well with those who showed up, but not everyone showed up.”
Those players should be released or dealt. What, are they just there to collect a paycheck? Sick.
Before that, though, some of the guys who DO show up to work with the hitting coach in the cages should get into these lazy-good-for-nothings’ faces and tell them they’re the ones who are dragging the team down.
Most ballplayers, especially the younger ones or all of them on a road trip, are wide-awake after ballgames until about 2 AM, then they sleep until noon, eat brunch, then it’s up to them whether or not they go to the ballpark to work on their hitting or work out in the weight room or get therapy….or go shopping or see a movie or hit on girls at the mall.
A few too many are the latter?
When did these guys stop listening to their non-managerial team leaders? When the team leaders left, i.e. Buhner, Martinez, Wilson?
The Reign of Terror was ended when several members of the Committee on Public Safety and the Robespierre clan, including Saint Just, Carthon and Robespierre were beheaded. 21 in all, to be exact. The Thermidorian period would follow, then Napolean.
Although it wasn’t simultaneous, it essentially happened on the same day (July 28, 1794)
As for Marie Antoinette, she was a victim of the initial purging of the Royalty by the National Convention (or atleast the Reign of Terror) in 1793 outliving her husband by 10 months,