Riggleman as a manager
There’s not a whole lot out there on Riggleman. He managed the Padres from 1992-1994, taking over for Greg Riddoch for the last few weeks of the 92 season, and never got to 1995. His team stunk.
Then in 1995-99, he was with the Cubs, where he’s generally known as being a pretty straight by-the-book manager. He’s seen this kind of collapse, too — the 98 team won 90, and the 99 team lost 95. And then he got fired. He’s 55, he’s been in different coaching positions for ages. There’s not a lot more than that.
It’ll be interesting — from everything we know, if he’s a pretty standard-issue manager, it’ll be a huge improvement in terms of consistent lineups, bullpen usage, and so on, but that would also require him to sort through this pretty horrible 25-man roster quickly, realize Raul needs to be platooned, all while ill-equipped to swap out players: there just aren’t ready replacements hanging around AAA right now for some of the team’s problems.
It’ll be interesting. I’ll certainly be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt — I’ve been thinking about how we as fans follow managers, and that’s a whole other story, but this seeing what he can do with the team is certainly going to be something worth watching for in this lost season.
How common is a platoon when the hitter in question is one of the team’s best? Obviously, it’d be nice for a manager (any manager) to see Raul’s deficiency against LHP, but who is better suited to take the ABs that’s on the roster? I just don’t see any manager taking arguably his 2nd or 3rd best hitter and platooning him…
Riggleman was probably hired because he has a career winning percentage of .438. By this organization’s logic, the Mariners should now expect to win at least 43.8% of their remaining games.
Either that or he was hired because of his “proven experience” in managing teams to lose 95+ games.
I can remember our hope when McLaren took over and even our acceptance of some of his initial moves. Then reality set in. This latest guy sounds old school (yes, he is interim) but at least if he is, you know, intelligent he can take the immediate steps we keep harping about.
um, how about he was hired because he was there?
An in-house hire means no relocation fees, and with the cost of gas these days . . . sheesh. The money they saved should get them through Vidro’s next pay cycle. Totally worth it.
Given that the organization is about to hire a permanent GM (who presumably may have his own ideas on who the new manager should be), what kind of outside candidates would you expect to accept the job at this point, anyway?
[hey, wait, that's ot]
His hands are kinda tied while they are in the NL swing of interleague AND still have Vidro and Sexson on the roster.
After those situations change, then we can see what kind of real decisions he’ll make.
Unless he just wants to bench those two early. Probably not going to happen.
For hacking at garbage pitches and getting himself out, he sure does have the best on-base percentage of anyone on the team.
Tony Gwynn: another wasted talent. Don’t even get me started on Rod Carew.
It seems like an internal promotion is what happens in the majority of in-season firings. But I wonder if this whole “different voice” thing is something that can actually be accomplished?
[snerk]
by the way, I know I swore off KJR this morning, but … ah well. I think I am out though, for if I hear one more time this afternoon that the main problem with this Mariner team is lack of leadership, and that if they had just hung onto Guillen …
Ichiro is such a slacker. I want him to hit it out every time he makes contact, and three steals per walk. If he doesn’t cooperate, we’ll bench him for Cairo. Did you know the Yankees had a .615 winning percentage in games he played? That’s a lot better than what Ichiro is doing here.
Riggleman! Back to Riggleman!
Ichiro’s walk rate:
2001: 4.16%
2002: 9.51% (27 intentional walks)
2003: 5.03%
2004: 6.51%
2005: 6.60%
2006: 6.46%
2007: 6.61%
2008: 8.00%
I don’t know about you, but I think someone’s been developing one of his old player skills.
Riggleman!
So, to bring it back to Riggleman, if I were him, I would tell Ichiro to keep working on whatever he’s working on, because he’s getting better at taking walks.
Also, if Riggleman is “by the book,” that will be awesome. Someone just needs to by him Tango’s book! Then we will have the best manager in baseball.
poking around, what seems to have been thrown at Riggleman after the fact in Chicago was his treatment of Kerry Wood’s arm, and that he let Sosa rule the clubhouse, to the irritaion of a lot of the other players.
See, nowwww it’s important that we don’t have Bonds. He’d seize control of the clubhouse with Riggleman in charge.
Jim Riggleman is a decent guy but I just don’t see him as being anything more than a short-term hire. The M’s ought to start fresh in 2009 with an entirely new approach from the top-down.
This may sound crazy but I think Joey Cora would be a great fit. He has knowledge of the city and fans, experience managing in the minors and in Venezuela and needs to get away from the madness in Chicago (see: Guillen, Ozzie).
Cora would also be the perfect guy to transition the Mariners’ passive, fan-friendly mindset without drawing ire from the fan base. He’s somewhat iconic to the Mariner die-hards and could get away with a different style without hurting any feelings.
Antonetti & Cora ‘09?
and I bet he would bring no fire to that clubhouse, either. Just a big chair.
Ok, question to statheads: with the formulas now being used to assess player talent, what are the statistics saying about managers? Are there metrics being formulated to get beyond things like “knows how to manage a game”?
If he blows up Felix’s arm I will personally send bees after him. Africanized bees. With lasers on their heads.
First, it’s that Riggleman was hired because he was already with the club as bench coach. It’s an interim hire; whomever the Mariners hire as GM will decide whether or not to keep him.
Second, I think the interesting subplot is Pelekoudas’ decision to replace McLaren with Riggleman now. From Pelekoudas’ ztatement:
I also wonder if Pelekoudas wanted a different voice than McLaren involved in making decisions about players. McLaren was part of the team with Bavasi that built the current roster; as manager McLaren certainly had substantial input in the construction of the roster. McLaren firmly believed this was a contending team and was as unable as Bavasi in seeing it’s flaws. And, of course, as one of the decision-makers who had advocated for specific personnel decisions, he might have some difficulty unraveling some of those same decisions.
Going forward, Pelekoudas will be seeking input from his field manager regarding the performance and capabilities of players on the roster and of players who might be obtained in transactions. McLaren player talent assessments must have had little or no remaining credibility.
The most important thing we should hope for from Riggleman is improved assessment of the capabilities of players on the current roster. It would be great if that showed up in lineup construction, but the most important component will be his input regarding roster decisions.
The cipher for me is that I have no information about how much he’s enamored of veteran grit and goodness.
There is a chapter in Baseball Between the Numbers about this, but it seemed totally inconclusive. It’s hard to isolate managerial influence from other factors. Maybe there is something more recent on this?
Wait wait wait… Joey Cora is a managerial candidate? How come no one’s ever mentioned this before?
Jaffe did a pretty huge study in 2006, I think. It’s linked at the bottom of the USSM “evaluating managers” post you see in the left-hand column.
OK, so I needed to read more threads re: Cora…
In any case, to what degree do you think Riggleman will be given autonomy?
Shouldn’t his job (from a management perspective) be to drive up the value of tradable pieces, attempt to develop talent and not get anyone hurt? How much decision making are the owners/shareholders going to allow him to make?
Thanks Derek. For anyone who hasn’t read it or read it a long time ago, it’s quite eerie to read it now in light of Mclaren’s dismissal, and with Riggleman taking the helm. Some of the what-ifs in the article are rather damning to Mclaren, the most flagrant of which seemed to be this:
(On daily lineups)
USSM: any chance we could see a redux of that post, in comparison to Mclaren’s decisions this year?
sigh. BBTN exchange:
“… George Sherrill, having an amazing season”
“Another reason they just blew up the Mariner front office”
[many chuckles ensue]
FWIW I’d never heard the Joey Cora suggestion before. Interesting….
I’d like to see Raul Ibanez as bench coach next season, or some similar capacity.
Interesting piece on ESPN about a Japanese manager in MLB.
It speculates that in the future the first Japanese manager will be a former MLB player from Japan … like Ichiro!
Well Jim’s record doesn’t look great, but its is what it is. Why the Mariners are focused on winning as many games as possible this year is beyond me. Draft picks are more important than salvaging a few wins it was is becoming one of the worst seasons in Mariner history.
the first Japanese manager will be a former MLB player from Japan … like Ichiro!
Why does it have to be former? I’m always nostalgic for the days of player-managers.
Can we bring Sadaharu Oh over to manage?
I looked up Riggleman’s stats, such as they are, on baseball-reference.com. The one thing that scares me is that his 1998 Cubs team, his best team by far, included three guys who struck out over 100 times, and only one guy (Sosa, with 14 IBB) who walked as much as 73 times. Brant Brown struck out 95 times in 347 AB, and Jeff Blauser 93 times in 361 AB (though with twice as many walks as Brown). We now know the source of the wind in the Windy City, as the pitching staff, led by Kerry Wood’s 20 year old rookie season, struck out nearly as many batters. Only the Marlins (who were being disassembled after their championship) and Dodgers walked more batters.
Remember, this was his best team. Oddly, his 1999 Cubs team cut their walks by pitchers by about 50, finishing third in the NL, but lost 95 games.
This was just stuff that stuck out to me, but none of it makes me think Riggleman is going to improve this team. Actually, if he just doesn’t make the players worse and lets Pelokoudas move the crappy guys when on hot streaks, I’ll be satisfied.
Worst case: he wins five games in a row and is immediately given a three-year extension.
Maybe Riggleman knows how to use a bench…and he puts the guys who belong on the bench there.
Use Vidro as Pinch hitter only.
Platoon Sexson. The guy is crushing lefties this year!!! Who knew he could have a good quality, even if it is small.
Cut Cairo and Burke.
I thought Bill Bavasi did a tremendous job restocking our farm system. That’s whay I heard Chuck Armstrong say on KJR!
From my Bill James “Baseball Managers from 1870 to Today”:
Jim Riggleman:
“Fairly stable lineup, but manages as if he had a twenty-eight-man roster once the game begins. Uses many pinch hitters, many relievers. Never misses a chance to call a pitchout or order an intentional walk.”
James’ comment follows the four seasons ending with 1996- two with SD, two with the Cubs. He pinch hit more than any manager in ‘96; led in intentional walks in 93-95. Was third in the NL in calling pitchouts in ‘96, though his total was more than any AL team. Was middle of the pack in hit and run and sb attempts. I think we will see a fair amount of bunting, though it’s hard to tell, since he was only an NL manager.
Finally, his Pythagorean luck, or lack thereof- wins more or less than indicated by runs scored/allowed formula:
93: -10
94: -7
95: 0
96: -5
97: -5
98: +6 (This was the playoff wild card team with young Kerry Wood, Sammy’s 66, and a crummy K.Tapani going 19-8. You bet JR was lucky.)
99: +2
Well, let’s hope his luck was turning at the end. M’s are already -3 in this category this year.
And regarding JR’s handling of Kerry Wood in ‘98. Well, it wasn’t how a 21-year old phenom is handled today.
Wood pitched over a 100 pitches in all but two of his first 20 starts that year, including four over 110 pitches, and seven over 120 pitches (!). His next to last start that year, in late August, JR allowed him to go 133 pitches. This was in a game the Cubs led 5-2 over the Reds, and going into the 8th inning Wood had 14 k’s; the most he could do was match his famous 20-K game, but even so he’d already thrown 114 pitches thru 7. The first batter in the 8th fouled out; yet Wood stayed in for three more batters, 16 more pitches, finishing with 16 k’s. He started once more (116 pitches) and was done for the season (and the next). You can understand why JR was fired after the Cubs tanked in’99, with Wood out all year.
I remember hearing that Wood’s high school coach had really done a number on his arm before he even got to the Cubs. I’m sure JR regrets how he used him and won’t repeat this with Felix.
From ESPN
After beginning the year with playoff expectations, the Mariners are now in the midst of what appears to be a lost season.
#33
It wouldn’t surprise me if the Mariners were the first to hire a manager from Japan. Not in the least. Although, if they hired one this next season I would be surprised. Hell, I’d be happy because maybe it’ll help. They do seem to be able to squeeze the potential to the surface, whereas a lot of American players don’t work too hard. Could you imagine Prince Fielder, Ryan Howard, maybe Bartolo Colon doing a typical Japanese workout every practice?
As a Cubs fan I don’t have any specific impression of Riggleman which is probably a good thing. He was by no means a great manager but he also wasn’t a terrible manager who we couldn’t wait to get run out of town.
While James’s comments seem to be negative, I see a manager who’s willing to do every little thing he can to win, and that’s a good thing.
Pelekoudas on KJR this morning carefully said nothing much about most everything asked, and then dropped the little nugget that Morrow was left behind when the plane departed for Atlanta, due to back spasms.
I just can’t believe that Riggleman hasn’t had input up until this point as part of McLaren’s team. I’m thinking things won’t be changing all that much as far as managerial style.
And the Mariners might hire a manager from Japan: Bobby Valentine.
Anyone see that the M’s are the first team in Major league history to lose more than 100 games with a payroll over 100 million.
As far as riggleman man goes I think he will be a good fit for what hopefully the M’s will try to be accomplishing the rest of the year, playing younger players
I guess I should have said on pace to lose 100 games
I’d love to see a japanese manager in MLB. Just think what would happen when he forced the players to run sprints after a loss or spend entire days working on fundamentals or hold mandatory practices on off days. Talk about a player revolt and an attacking press corps.
But then I read how the reason the Orioles are so much better this year is because they are taking infield practice before games and just wonder if everyone has lost their minds. (Ummm…the Orioles are better this year because they have better players than previous years…partially thanks to Bill Bavasi).
Back To Riggleman…..
ummm….He’s got to be better than McLaren, right? Even if he’s by the book, that’s better than rolling random dice like McLaren did.
It’ll be interesting to see what Riggleman’s first lineup card looks like.
Geoff Baker made much of this a few weeks ago in a scathing blog post on the state of the Mariners.
Riggleman’s job is to prevent this from happening; we’ll see if he can do it.
In Baker’s piece today:
So, a couple questions here.
1) What might have been Pelekoudas’ reasons that convinced them? Is there any known track record of Pelekoudas to show that he recognized just how bad some of McLaren’s managerial decisions were, and pointed them out? Or, would it be more of something like “We’re awful. We need a fresh start.”
2) Does this make any of you more inclined to be happy with Pelekoudas being retained full time? I suppose it would depend on your answer to #1.
I’m fine with giving Pelekoudas the rest of the year to see what he can do, personally. But he should be on a really short leash that should get yanked immediately if he starts doing stupid things.
But really, you’re not going to get to interview most of the good candidates during the season anyway, so you’re just filling the seat until the offseason.
As far as firing McLaren goes, I’d have to say that Pelekoudas must have seen how much he was actively hurting the team’s chances to win (which is tough for a manager to do, in general) but the public statements aren’t going to come right out and say that, so we hear that they just needed “a new voice” instead.
One thing that I think people in general (so not addressing anyone in specific) need to work on is not taking what Mariners officials (or really, anyone who represents a large business) say to the media as if it were the 100% unvarnished truth. There’s ALWAYS going to be some amount of spin.
The Mariners were going for a manager who has proven he can put a team on a pace for 90 losses. A ten game improvement from their current pace for 100 losses which I think any M’s fan, at this point, would take.
You’d think that they are bound to get better this year, that the stress on both McLaren and Bavasi was also felt by the team and now that there are absolutely no expectations and no place to go but up, they will play looser and better.
I don’t understand why we’re having an in-depth discussion about Riggleman. As mentioned before, isn’t it standard protocol to promote a bench coach for the interim and then perform a search later? Realistically, I don’t think Riggleman has a shot at becoming the next manager – the M’s are showing they want to appear to clean house, and keeping him flies in the face of that.
As for the speculation regarding a Japanese mananger in the US, I’m cheering for Hillman. I hope he’s able to bring the Royals up into relevance (I’d just like to see the Japanese-style of baseball succeed here – kinda biased). But you’re not going to see Bobby V come back to the states. He’s absolutely loved as the Marines manager and probably wouldn’t trade it in for anything. Considering where his team plays, perhaps Marty Brown of the Hiroshima Toyo Carp would be an option. It’s a reach, considering his team hasn’t improved that much (although they are hovering at .500), but if we’re going along the lines of gaijin managers in NPB, he could be an option. Considering it’s the Carp, bringing them over .500 would kinda be like Hillman doing that with the Royals.
wow. managerial flashbacks galore this week.
First Manuel, then Riggleman– now the Jays have tossed Gibbons & his staff, and brought Cito Gaston back as manager.
I find it ironic in his first act as Interim GM Lee Pelekoudas canned the man that he personally brought back to the team (John McLaren). I wonder how long it will take Bob Fontaine to go back to California?
Unfortunately I think Mac is better suited to be the XO than the Skipper. I wonder if Alan Trammell will be changing jobs next season?
Jim Riggleman started managing in the big leagues 16 years ago. I would certainly hope he has learned some things over the years. While he hasn’t managed in the AL until now he has certainly been identified as a fan of the long ball, so I don’t think his NL history handicaps his ability to run an AL team dugout.
Maybe we can just throw them all out? Lincoln (for Chris Larson), Armstrong (for anybody…but why not Reggie Fils-Aime?), Pelekoudas (for any metrics-conscious executive), and Riggleman (is Dan Rohn still managing the Giants’ AAA club?)?
Hey, we can all (pipe) dream, right?
[Riggleman!]
This week’s sign that the Apocalypse is upon us.
Gaston! That’s hilarious. I remember seeing him get tossed in (I think) the first inning of a game in the Kingdome back in the day. One of the first crystal clear M’s game memories I have. My first ejection, too, so definitely a worthy memory.
KaminaAyoto,
We have an in-depth discussion of everything Mariners-related. In case you haven’t noticed, we’re not exactly distracted by competitive Mariners baseball at the moment, so a new manager is gonna generate at least a little discussion, if for nothing more than the question of whether or not there’s a shred of hope we get a sane lineup card before the season is done.
smb,
I’ll give you that point. I guess looking for a relatively sane lineup card (given the players we have) is something positive to look for this year. For me though, keeping myself sane is being able to look past anything short-term (i.e. things that only affect this year) and looking for long-term moves/solutions. I just can’t see Riggleman as a long-term solution.
Which is still better than McLaren’s was this season, though that’s not saying a whole hell of a lot.
I know that in crazy news cycles like this minutia can get over-analyzed to death… but this statement by Armstrong strikes me as interesting.
He basically just threw Pelekoudas under the bus for the firing of Mac. He didn’t completely disavow responsibility, but he did put the burden on an underling. It makes them look a little more human and Lee a little more mercenary. That may play here, but in the larger media view, Armstong’s statement seems a little self-serving.
Maybe his job IS on the line finally.
It’s interesting. Usually that sort of thing is protected a little.
I also will be interested to see the lineup today, but after looking at the current roster against LHP’s, Riggleman doesn’t really have much to consider. As much as I hate to say it, Bloomquist probably is a better option in CF than Reed against LHP’s, which doesn’t give Riggleman an option with Ibanez, as the team only carries 4 outfielders these days.
Clement will probably be on the bench tonight as well, but it will be interesting to see if Johjima or Burke is the choice. Burke has the better record against LHP and Bedard is pitching, so I’m guessing it’s Burke.
Riggleman is definitely handicapped with the “talent” he has to work with. We’ll see if he can make lemonade out of the lemons he has available. Unfortunately, the roster in Tacoma doesn’t appear to offer much hope, although I’m interested to see how Saunders does there now that he’s been promoted to AAA. Looks like we’ll be seeing him in September…
Larry Stone has chimed in this morning about McLaren’s news conference… It’s on Baker’s Blog. He also says that the M’s have been “en masse” working out on the field since 2:30…
Well, I’m stupid. For some reason, I thought Campillo was a LHP. So, tonight’s lineup will be real interesting, as Clement and Reed should be in it. I’ll be interested to see who the DH is and who’s playing 1B.
IIRC, there are a string of right-handers, so Clement was expected to get a number of starts at catcher once he came back up.
Well we are definitely on the same page then. We just scrutinize him because he’s on our plate now…but you seem to have some knowledge about the Japanese league (unlike me), so if we get another manager thread anytime soon, I hope you will continue to chime in!
The game is in Atlanta, so there’s no DH. My prediction (or preference) for the lineup:
Ichiro–RF L
Lopez–2B R
Ibanez–LF L
Beltre–3B R
Reed–CF L
Betancourt–SS R
Sexson–1B R
Burke–C R (Bedard Day)
Pitcher
The following is a quote from John Mclaren A little divided, pitchers against hitters,” McLaren said Friday morning from Arizona, one day after the Mariners replaced him with bench coach Jim Riggleman. Seattle Times reported.
Looks like that maybe an area Jim R will have to work on.
I’d be surprised if Burke as Bedard’s personal catcher continues; McLaren said that that was over, and it’s not likely that it’ll suddenly come back with Riggleman.
I don’t know if Riggleman will give Bedard his personal catcher, but Mac did say the ‘combinations’ at catcher were over. Hopefully we’ll see Clement catching and hitting fifth, with Reed seventh or eighth. Should be interesting to see who’s in at catcher.
I suspect that Clement will be starting tonight at C. I will be interested to see who is batting 2nd tonight, as Lopez is probably the expected choice but he has the lowest lifetime OPS against RHP of the probable starters. I’d consider this lineup (lifetime OPS against RHP):
Ichiro RF L (.796)
Reed CF L (.727)
Beltre 3B R (.782)
Ibanez LF L (.849)
Clement C L (.775)
Sexson 1B R (.844)
Lopez 2B R (.669)
Betancourt SS R (.690)
Bedard P L (.200)
This lineup sacrifices the L-R-L-R sequence that McLaren was so fond of, but I frankly don’t see how using that sequence works in our favor, given that the right-handed batters are so much worse than the lefties against RHP. There’s no way Riggleman is batting Lopez 7th, but if he reads stats, he ought to consider it.
Putting Lopez/Betancourt/pitcher together puts all of the low OBP batters in a row. I think that is a plus….
I also think Ibanez would benefit from having Clement behind him instead of a right-handed batter.
With that in mind, then it should be Clement tonight, and I like the idea of batting him behind Raul and Beltre.
FWIW, Riggleman is quoted on the M’s site as saying he doesn’t have any “massive changes” planned.
I’m hoping that doesn’t apply to things like, say, batting Vidro third and all…