Wednesday morning
DMZ · June 25, 2008 at 8:28 am · Filed Under Mariners
Soooooooooooo not a lot going on until these two teams face off again tonight, huh? Really, a prank call to JP Ricciardi is an ESPN top story on the baseball page. That’s a slow news day.
On an unrelated note: if you were trying to reset your password lately and it hasn’t worked, drop us a line — I’d hoped it was an issue caused by all the load, but that hasn’t fixed everyone’s issues. We’ll reset them manually at some point, tonight hopefully.
Someone, somewhere, is laughing their ass off at calling Ricciardi and successfully getting him to apologize to fake Adam Dunn. Slow news, yes, but a pretty good prank nonetheless. Now maybe someone should call Kenny Williams and give a profanity-laced tirade in fake Ozzie Guillen voice.
had to be Griffey.
Better yet, Shea Hillenbrand after his unceremonious exit from Toronto.
But it’s never iffy if it’s Griffey!
Junior is most definitely a prankster. It’s not inconceivable he had something to do with it. Maybe he cajoled/veteran-leveraged Jay Bruce into doing it…
I’m surprised that Bronson Arroyo’s outing yesterday isn’t getting more coverage.
Wow, that is a beating and a half. Maybe he was tipping his pitches?
I think it is the lack of cornrows, myself.
The Post calls Dickey “an atrocious pitcher”– does that count as news?
Stephania Bell over at espn.com has some insight into Felix’ injury:
On tender ligaments and swollen joints…
what else–
Omar Vizquel made a triumphant return to the Jake, winning the game for Giants in the 9th with a suicide squeeze that scored Rich Aurelia.
Brian O’Nora got speared by one of the notorious maple bats on the day the Safety and Health Advisory Committee met to discuss their potential hazards.
Josh Fields may become available to the bullpen after tonight.
Josh Fields is going to be a freaking stud…
Too bad his facial hair and long hair remind me too much of Weaver…
I’m surprised that Bronson Arroyo’s outing yesterday isn’t getting more coverage.
I don’t know why (perhaps because it’s june and all the recent coverage in California) but my first thought reading that was “Bronson Arroyo’s gay?” And as I started to wonder if he was acknowledging that, and how difficult that would be, and how I might revise upward my opinion of him off the field (which is otherwise dominated by his “singing career“) I looked at the link and realized, no, he’s not a gay pitcher. He’s just a bad pitcher.
This has been the “Season The Pitchers Discovered A Pitch or a Problem”…How many pitchers have said something along these lines this year? Dickey is the latest having Tim Wakefield spot something in the video. Battista discovered the “Key to Pitching”, Silva found a new pitch. Washburn had his college coach take a look at the video and did he spot a problem? Natch. I think there’s probably a few more.
I’m not sure about the effectiveness of pitching coaches, but you wonder about the tag team of Stottlemyre and Norm Charlton and wonder if maybe Raffy Chaves could have made some sense of it all. I saw that he now is the pitching coach for the Yankees Triple A farm club.
Yeah, the Post coverage is funny, really, in a sort of deja vu / schadenfreude sort of way.
The rest of the article reads like Bavasi/McLaren from two weeks ago. Or anytime in the month before that. Except even with the acme (nadir?) of dysfunction the M’s FO reached, they weren’t openly contradicting each other in the press:
..later in the same article…
oh, I think that is most seasons, really — it is just magnified by how bad they have all been at the same time. And often it is hitters looking for the answer elsewhere; think of Jr asking his dad to take a look at him.
Is it just me or has Minaya actually entered some sort of personal meltdown phase? The press conference after Randolph’s firing was just painful at all points after about the :20 second mark, and now he’s already contradicting Manuel in the press. The M’s managerial leadership may have been piss-poor all season to this point, but at least it appeared there was someone at the wheel (albeit steering the ship right into a coral reef), rather than the apparent chaos right now with the Mets.
As far as Felix’s injury goes: I did exactly the same thing, rolling my ankle, in high school. And I tried to play on it briefly (and actually biked home, though by the end of the ride I was only powering my bike with one leg). Like Felix, x-rays were negative. But I was in a cast for six weeks (though I first needed to ice it for two days to get the swelling down). I doubt I actually needed six weeks (I was able to go jump out of airplanes the weekend after I had the cast off), and Felix is getting the best of care (including immediate icing and daily monitoring). But I’d be extremely surprised if he only misses one start. It’s not like the season is in jeopardy or there’s any other reason to rush him back, and who wants to risk a chronic injury or creating other problems?
BTW, though they kept replaying the overhead view, the shot that really showed the unnatural folding of the ankle in all its gruesome detail was the shot from the 1st base camera well, that they only showed once in the immediate aftermath.
Mariners’ site headline regarding today’s game:
Batista Takes Another Hack at Starting
Wonder how long that can stay up.
I was interested to hear Griffin say that they routinely tape Felix’ left ankle to give him extra support when he lands, and that he thought it may have protected him from both spiking and from rolling it more thoroughly.
oh, and in breaking news, Dan Wilson is now living on the East Coast.
This was a surprise to KJR’s Mariners reporter Jason Puckett, who just learned it when reading Hickey’s little note proposing that Wilson should get back into the M’s organization in some capacity.
Dan Wilson, when present, is the best thing going in the M’s broadcast booth. He’s knowledgeable, speaks well, and is not a blind homer. Makes Sims, Rizzs, and Blowers look like minor-leaguers.
20- Dan Wilson, when NOT present, is still the best thing going on in the booth…
Would you rather have Wilson in the booth or as our DH?
Batista Takes Another Hack at Starting
Funny, I always use “Batista” and “Hack” in the same sentence differently.
The news I would love to see is..
Batista takes one for the team and designates himself without pay!
#20
I rather enjoy Dave Sims’ announcing, to be honest. Genuinely seems to be enjoying himself in the booth. Furthermore, Blowers is a tremendous improvement over the likes of Valle and Hendu.
Here is Heymans latest article.
I used the link button!
Wasn’t that good of a read, nbut it is about us.
The Brewers are going to try starting relivers for the first few innings at Class A, then bring in starters. I think it is a great idea if you have a bullpen that can make it work.
I used the link button!
……I believe the politically correct expression is “to each his own” but you have GOT to be kidding me
Use the link button please, guys!
Wow, what an awful article. I closed the window after I read this:
Wow. Really?
The Mariners’ two straight victories in New York notwithstanding, Ichiro may dragging this team down, if that’s even possible, with his superstar-first attitude.
Yeah, that’s our problem. Ichiro’s attitude is the reason Sexson and Vidro can’t hit. That’s the reason why Ibanez can’t play good defense. Damn you Ichiro!!!
You know, when you’re (former) center fielder had to basically play CF and LF (and when Wlad was here, a little RF) I think you should cut him some slack.
Sorry
Still figuring out the site.
It’s not a big deal, long links just can really screw up page formatting.
And yeah, I read that Heyman article earlier; it’s another good example of why I almost entirely ignore the national sports media these days.
Whatever increased access they might have over guys like Dave and Derek is entirely negated by atrocious writing and nonsensical things made up to fill column inches.
Awww, but then you missed how he said that if the Mariners put Felix on the trading block there are teams that would show interest.
Like I said, not that good of a read.
Heymen even seems to be scoffing at us for not listening to Hernandez offers.
Small consolation, but in the next paragraph he quotes Riggleman pretty much saying that the writer is full of crap.
Also, you missed the part where he quotes two anonymous executives basically stating flat-out that Ichiro got Hargrove fired. That was mildly interesting.
I don’t know if I believe this.
my favorite part was “His negatives are that he appears at times to be playing at half speed and to have more interest in stylin’ than anything of substance.”
um, yeah.
Jon Heyman has an article up at SI.com about the M’s.
I know I’ll be bashed and possibly banned for this…..but i’m all for trading Ichiro. before you blow me off, look at the big picture…..
Ichiro is 34 yrs old, and to be honest, with the current philosophy of the team, its not going to be competitive for 3-4 yrs, at least. I understand and agree Ichiro is special, and I love the guy…….but realistically, he could get us a return that would immediately improve 2-3 spots on this team (Depending on the trade partner). This is the type of tough decision that separates the Billy Beanes from the Billy Bavasi’s….making the tough decision that makes the team better over the long haul.
The article does scare me a bit though:
apparently it is impossible for most media members to actually take Hargrove at his word.
I prefer to think Fields is channeling Bob James or Bruce Sutter, somebody cool like that.
The article didn’t call them “executives” it said they were two people with “mariners ties” who were “familiar with the situation.” Could have been anybody.
As Jeff noted, it’s just another writer trying to fill column inches for a deadline.
With the current philosophy of the team, they will never be truly competitive again. But if the much needed philisophical (and personnel) change takes place, this team could realistically be competitive faster than you think. And Ichiro could continue to be a big part of their success.
um, Chef Jeremy?
If I was a fan of another team and the Mariners put Felix on the block, I’d be pissed if they didn’t offer at least their top five prospects for him.
But as a fan of the Mariners, any call to Lee should end as soon as the name Felix is spoken.
True that on the philosophy…..until the decision makers realize they are part of the problem, and not the solution……nothing will change……my thought is just regardless of the philosophy, its going to take 3-4 years to put the pieces together…..and I honestly think that trading Ichiro to a team like the Dodgers could dramatically upgrade this team. I believe speed ages better than power, and that Ichiro is a tremendous physical specimen…….but at the same time….I look at the fact that he could fill multiple positions with quality…..guys that are younger, and guys that together, with Felix could give us a solid core to build around.
I shake my head when I see sports writers talk about his AVG, or his contract….or that he’s dragging the team down…..I just don’t understand the hate on a guy who is such a hard worker.
“I just don’t understand the hate on a guy who is such a hard worker.” – Especially with a fan base that values Willie for that exact reason.
IF we have success in the next 5-7 years, Ichiro WILL be a big part of it. Even a good trade of Ichiro (which I can’t really even fathom) would net players that would need to be built around. I love how his relative silence is taken as license to ascribe to him whatever negative perceptions the writer is able to dream up.
Also, Heyman (Hey, Man! That name sounds made up) seems to be trolling the Times blog for his “inside sources.”
If any FO is looking at trade opportunities as a way to improve their franchise, then there should never be any player who is “off limits” to trading. I know you get no trade clauses and such but isn’t it really a matter of “what are you going to give me in return?”
Granted with players like Ichiro or Felix you’re talking about needing to get a return that isn’t realistic…but that doesn’t mean that someone somewhere wouldn’t be willing to put together a 5:1 trade package of current and future talent for … oh…
Ichiro is not a typical 34 year old player (he doesn’t have “old player skills” which typically are taking walks and hitting for power). There’s plenty of reason to believe he’ll still be an awesome player into his late 30s-early 40s, especially with how fanatical he is about conditioning.
Three things get in the way of any possible trade involving Ichiro:
1) The rest of the league just doesn’t value him the way that we do. With the Pacific Rim connection and Japanese ownership, he is an asset to the Mariners in a way that is probably unique in all of baseball.
2) This might really be a 1a sort of point, but Ichiro’s skillset is undervalued in the major leagues in general. We hear all the time that he doesn’t hit for power enough, doesn’t take enough walks, etc etc etc. So your average GM isn’t going to give you as much for Ichiro as would be merited, since it takes a lot of study to really see his value.
3) I’d be at the Mariners offices the next day with torch and pitchfork.
Let’s not forget that Heyman is the guy last year who — on the basis of viewing a single game — decided Yuniesky Betancourt would take over Jeter’s automatic Gold Glove at shortstop. (No Jeter hasn’t deserved it either but that’s a separate issue).
Stupid teams blame their best players for their failures. The extension is that stupid fans blame their best players.
The alternative explanation is not something I want to think about…
not to mention “stylin’”
#28
Yes, I’m quite serious. I find Sims to be far more entertaining and genuine than Rizzs. He’s the anti-Joe Morgan; occasionally has something smart to bring up and is always entertaining. In addition, Blowers may be somewhat dry, but he occasionally has something intelligent to say. At the very least, they haven’t made an “Oh Boy, Obertie” comment yet.
Looking at you, Hendu.
Concerning the Heyman article… I can’t remember the last time I read an piece that was so awful. Does he really think Ichiro is going to be shopped around the league? Really? Does he really believe there’s even a slight chance Felix will be on the table? Does this fellow have any idea how to place a value on players?
Clearly though, Ichiro’s selfish prima donna stretching routine is the sole reason this team is one of the worst teams in baseball.
I think Washburn was one of Heyman’s sources. And he thought he could get away with it because he left Kenji out.
On Ichiro:
> I shake my head when I see sports writers talk about his AVG, or his contract….or that he’s dragging the team down…..I just don’t understand the hate on a guy who is such a hard worker.
One factor might be that he just doesn’t look like he’s working as hard as a lot of other players out in the field. He’s so naturally graceful, and doesn’t zigzag frantically to the ball. And that gets construed as a ho-hum attitude by the casual obsever. But shouldn’t sportswriters know these things?
I also sense from some fans that they don’t relate to his somewhat feminine manner. It really makes them uncomfortable. That could be an issue as well. Bedard isn’t scrappy and dirty, but at least he oozes brown chaw down his chin between pitches.
Hey Heyman, do you even know where Seattle is?…..idiot. You’d think SI would hold it’s journalists to a higher standard…..
“I just don’t understand the hate on a guy who is such a hard worker.†– Especially with a fan base that values Willie for that exact reason.
Willie’s caucasian. I hate to say it, but in some cases that’s at the root of it. (In a lot of other cases, it’s just that Ichiro is such a unique talent that it’s hard for some people to appreciate him for what he is; they can only see value in terms of things they already understand “like X, only faster” or “hits like Y, but with more home runs.” That, and casual fans always underestimate defense.)
its going to take 3-4 years to put the pieces together
No, it’s not. This isn’t the Indians, who blew up the team and have been working with a below-AL-average payroll ever since; the M’s have the budget (and the money coming off the books) to turn things around rapidly, if spent wisely. And spending wisely comes back to that philosophy question, of course. Even the Tigers only took three years to bounce back from a 119 loss season to the World Series, and that was with a payroll less than the AL average in two of those three years (and just $5M over the AL average in their WS year).
I wouldn’t be against trading Ichiro under any circumstances, but it would have to be a tremendous offer; and since no other team would benefit as much from his presence on the roster (because of the added value he brings to the M’s with its Japanese fan base and ownership) you’re unlikely to get that offer.
Even those writing about the M’s are underachieving……..No No, his letters are perfectly good letters, look at their track record of producing words in past articles, they’re just pressing right now…… you’ll see………….. (Insert sound of rolling heads)
Guys, we’re obviously playing this comment thread fairly loose, but can we refrain from calling people names, even if they might deserve it?
Thanks!
The thing that strikes me as the stupidest part of the article is that Heyman actually mentions trading Felix as a possibility. Felix is probably one of the Top 10 pitchers in the AL right now and he is still a few years away from his prime. Trading him would be utterly retarded. Felix is a once or twice in a generation player.
Exactly. And to me, this is simultaneously the most encouraging and depressing thing about the team right now. It’s encouraging because turn-around could be fairly simple and quick. It’s extra depressing if it doesn’t happen though, because, well, turn-around could be fairly simple and quick.
Don’t forget we really have no good reason to expect a philosophical revolution in the M’s FO. I’m hopeful now that BB and McLaren are out, but it’s probably a fool’s hope.
Speaking of blowing things up, did anybody notice the fangraphs blog post that noted that over the last 3 years, two of the five worst players in terms of (negative) WPA are the M’s middle infield? (Though so far at least it looks like Lopez is turning things around). Oh, and because that wasn’t enough the M’s went out this offseason and signed one of the 5 worst starters (again by WPA over the last 3 years) to a huge contract as well.
I’m not saying I WANT to trade Ichiro…..but I’m saying if the right package comes along (For instance the Dodgers offer up Kemp, Loney, and Billingsley), then I would be for it.
As to trading Felix, thats just nonsense….he’s exactly who we need to be building around…. I might understand entertaining offers if he’s in his last year of club control and we’d lose him to FA….but thats it…..the kid has shown more heart in the last week than the entire Bedard family probably has combined.
Speaking of Bedard, and how it ties in with Ichiro…..I’m not a Bedard fan, I think he’s the stereotypical LHP, a little goofy….but I see how the media gets all over him for being “unavailable”……and see the same with Ichiro, simply because he doesn’t chat a lot, or give them good quote, he has to be everything thats wrong with the M’s….Sexson, Vidro, and Washburn be damned.
Trading away a 22 year old ace so you can start rebuilding from scratch is lunacy. Ichiro, however shouldn’t be out of the question, but we’d need to get more than just getting Adam Jones back.
There is one overwhelming reason we can’t trade Ichiro… he brings in WAY too much money for us. We trade him and we lose our Japanese market, which pours a TON of money into the club. There is a reason we have one of the highest payrolls in baseball, and Ichiro is a big part of that. Not only would it not make sense to trade him from a baseball standpoint, but it really makes no sense financially.
True, which is why it warrants no further discussion. The mere thought of Ichiro being traded pisses Derek off, so we should probably just drop it.
Especially if you’re discussing trading him for a delicious can of Sprite.
But Ichiro gives great quote!
Before I turned down any offers for Ichiro or Felix, I’d like to see what they’d offer me.
What does talking to the press have to do with pitching? Bedard could be the next Steve Carlton if he’d stop talking with them completly.