The Washburn Rumors
Dave · July 25, 2008 at 9:49 am · Filed Under Mariners
You have probably read by now that the M’s reportedly asked for both Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner from the Yankees for Jarrod Washburn. There’s just no way that’s true – asking for either one is crazy enough, but both? Cashman would hang up on the phone and put call block on any number from 206 if Pelekoudas actually asked for Cabrera and Gardner.
Don’t worry about the no-trade clause – the M’s or Yankees will just pay him to make that go away.
Wooo-woo. A meaningless final run, since the score was already 4-1. In any other situation it’d be just another pop-fly out.
I get the sense reading the rest of that article that either Big Sexy wasn’t leaving it all out on the field for the Mariners, or Wilson Betemit and The Big G are even more atrocious as first basemen.
So, did we make the four minute deadline?
I didn’t see the comment!
Actually it took nine minutes. But I was thinking of how long he had left to edit his comment.
In retrospect he had even less time available. My clock is a bit slower than the site’s.
Wooo-woo. A meaningless final run, since the score was already 4-1.
I know an Oakland A’s fan* who, last year, kept pointing out how often Sexson only got a hit after the game was decided one way or the other. It was kind of spooky, though I never went back and looked at the game logs to see if there was any statistical validity to it.
* Not by choice. I mean, he’s an A’s fan by choice, but I didn’t choose to know him. He’s just frequently at the same bar.
[ot]
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Okay, guys. Let’s try to keep at least in the general ballpark of talking about Washburn.
My concern is that if you have a reasonable offer for Washburn and don’t take it, trying to squeeze more out of the deal, then the Yank mees go elsewhere and you don’t get any deal done. I hope Lee P. has the sense to know this. Not that I’m a Bavasi guy but I think Bill would know this. I am intrigued by the fact that the Pirates are offering Jason Bay to anyone. I know their price is high but maybe with the right combo of AAA, AA, and A players you can swing that deal. He would look pretty good in Left Field, batting 3rd. This would move Rauuuuuuuuuuuuuul to DH if he’s not traded. You instantly plug 2 holes. Bay bating 3rd, Ibanez 4th and Beltre 5th. Now the middle of your order has some pop. And Vidro………….
TumwaterMike said:
My concern is that if you have a reasonable offer for Washburn and don’t take it, trying to squeeze more out of the deal, then the Yank mees go elsewhere and you don’t get any deal done. I hope Lee P. has the sense to know this. Not that I’m a Bavasi guy but I think Bill would know this. I am intrigued by the fact that the Pirates are offering Jason Bay to anyone. I know their price is high but maybe with the right combo of AAA, AA, and A players you can swing that deal. He would look pretty good in Left Field, batting 3rd. This would move Rauuuuuuuuuuuuuul to DH if he’s not traded. You instantly plug 2 holes. Bay bating 3rd, Ibanez 4th and Beltre 5th. Now the middle of your order has some pop. And Vidro………….
I agree with you, if the M’s have a deal on the table to move all of Washburn’s salary you do it. According to Jason Stark, the M’s aren’t interested in that though which I can’t for the life of me understand.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3505280&name=mlb_trade_deadline
Bay is definitely intriguing. I would prefer a power lefty bat in Safeco but he is a good player.
I understand that everyone wants to dump Washburn. The problem is we don’t have an Ian Kennedy or Phil Hughes sitting at Triple A waiting to start. I think Rowland-Smith is about as replacement level as you can get. You get out from under the remaining contract for this year and next year. That is why you trade him and hopefully you can get a Sheets or Sabathia (dreaming here) in the offseason. It gives you a little more flexibility trying to rebuild this team in the offseason. The Mariners front office is crazy not to trade him if the Yanks are offering Melky or Gardner for Washburn plus picking up his tab for 09.
#57: Why would the worst team in baseball trade minor league talent to get Jason Bay when they are the worst team in baseball? I’m sure the Pirates would ask for Aumont, Truinfel, and probably another guy for him. We are sellers, not buyers.
Melky Cabrera may be no great shakes defensively in center, but he’s hit better against RHP than LHP, so he would complement Balentien fairly well and provide the M’s another 4th OF choice if they decide they don’t really want to stick with Reed. Worst-case scenario, you find a better OF option in the offseason and find Melky a different home. If another team is going to assume all of Washburn’s contract for 2009, I have trouble believing that the Mariners could get back more value than Melky Cabrera.
Forget Gardner! If we can get Melky Cabrera for Jerrod Washburn it would be the best Mariners trade of the new century. Don’t scoff. Cabrera is Adam Jones at the plate but walks more and strikes out less. In my opinion, his struggles this year can be attributed inconstant playing time in the Yankees outfield. If you don’t agree with that you will agree Cabrera is at least an upgrade over Reed/Bloomquist.
Our pitching isn’t great, but it’s not where we need the most help.
We need hitters and better defenders, desperately.
If we trade Washburn for Melky straight up talent swap and don’t get hosed on the money, I’ll be dancing in the streets.
Here is a trade with some actual upside, for once.
Cripes, get it done already. The longer this lingers, the more time the Yankees have to realize they’re actually considering trading for Jarrod Washburn.
Get that money off the books so we can go get some real players!
#59-I would offer Balentein and maybe Mark Lowe and maybe Rob Johnnson (we are rich in good catchers). I understand we are sellers but lets also think about what lies ahead. If we can get a player of Bay’s ability, why not. If we get Bay we wouldn’t need Balentein and we still have a Balentein clone in the minors in Michael Wilson. We need to start thinking outside the box a little. Also Bay is a Candaian who went to Gonzaga so has some conections here. We might get a home town discount to sign him for the long term.
Well, a couple of days ago in the “You have to move Washburn” thread, I speculated that there are two possible explanations for the contracts the M’s have given Washburn, Batista and Silva (multi-year high-seven to eight figures). Either they think those guys are top of the rotation talent, or they think proven innings-eaters are really, really valuable. If it’s the former, they’ll trade Washburn because he’s not what they thought they were getting. If it’s the latter, they’ll hang onto him because they got exactly what they wanted and think it’s a good deal.
RRS and Washburn are both probably 1 win above replacement as starters. Washburn is maybe less risky than RRS (though RRS has more upside), but there’s not enough difference between them to justify the salary difference. If you can move Washburn and his salary, do it. It’s not like he’s above average. He’s just an innings eater. Those shouldn’t cost 10 million a year.
#62: If you can get 36 mill to work with in the offseason, you might be able to sign a couple of defenders (Mark Ellis, Rafael Furcal) and still have enough money to sign Sheets. My guess is Ellis is going to go for about 8 mill and Furcal around 10. That still gives you 18 mill to sign Sheets at about 12-15 mill per and pay arbitration raises for Bedard, etc. This, of course, would start with trading Washburn for anybody. I really like the idea of Melky in LF in 09.
#65: Do you really think the Pirates are going to trade one of the best outfielders in baseball for Balentien, Lowe, and Johnson? They already have Doumit at C who is a stud. They are going to (and should) ask for the moon for Jason Bay.
AHHHHH! PLEASE TAKE HIM
Sheets would be a nice upgrade; I’m just leery of free agent pitching in general, and I think that pitching should be a distant third in priority this offseason after offense and defense.
And I think Sheets and Sabathia are going to be very, very expensive.
As much as I’d like to see Turbo never pick up a bat for the Mariners again…I don’t really see the point in moving him.
He’s not good enough to affect the talent you’ll get back in trade, and unless the Mariners somehow manage to hilariously get him enough at-bats for his option to vest, he won’t be back next year.
I agree Jeff, Vidro should not be a concern right now as he is a sunk cost for this year and off the books at the end of the year. Not sure why the M’s are so caught up in trying to move him. They should me MUCH more concerned with moving Washburn and not worrying at all about Vidro.
Jeff, do you think maybe Vidro is bad enough to affect the talent we’d get back in a trade? If I took on that lineup albatross in a trade I’d demand reparations.
It might be cause for a war crimes tribunal, I agree.
In seriousness though, Vidro does suck; but a large part of his current suck is tied up in the fact that he’s being written on the lineup card at DH every day when he can’t H, and that he keeps being asked to bat cleanup when he might have a hard time cleaning bats.
I’ve done some checking around with my sources, and the news is interesting. Three of the four I’ve heard back from say that Cashman is considering Wash plus a catcher for Melky and Gardener. The catcher would be one of Johjima, Burke, or Johnson. If it’s Joh, we’d HAVE to take Igawa back to offset salary. The other says it’d be Wash plus another player, likely Vidro or, strangely, Raul, for the three aforementioned Yanks.
Interesting scenarios, to be sure. However, none of the people I talked to gave either scenario better than a 60/40 chance of actually happening. The report of Xavier Nady going to the Yanks would make scenario #2 much less likely.
The “new age” FO in Pittsburgh?
Bwaaaahaaaahaaaa!
I guess everybody’s heard by now that the Yankees DID have other options! That’s how bad they didn’t want Vidro, I guess… 🙂
Yes, they traded with the hapless and equally poorly run Pittsburgh Pirates (comparing them to the Mariners, not the Yankees), trading a BUNCH of overhyped minor leaguers, an OK-in-S/WB-but-not-in-the-Bronx pitcher, and/or never-heard-of-’em “prospects” for Xavier Nady (OF help that can both hit and throw, so that Damon can DH) and Damaso Marte, who makes the Yankee bullpen even more formidable (no starting pitchers in this deal, though, and that’s good from an anti-Yankee standpoint).
I can assume that the Pittsburg deal doesn’t mean much for Washburn going to New York — none of the mentionables moved to Pittsburg in the deal and they didn’t pick up anything that Washburn would scratch off their wishlist.
“they didn’t pick up anything that Washburn would scratch off their wishlist.” What would Wash make the Yankees check off? LHP w/declining velocity and no out pitch? Also, as a lifelong Wisconsonian, Sheets would be a great pickup if-can we say it together-he can stay healthy.
Check out this little tidbit from rotoworld, via the Times.
Sounds like the M’s might be contemplating sending Morrow down to Tacoma to work on starting. Well, as long as JJ can fill the vitally important closer role for a team on the way to 90+ losses.
a little cold water from Stark, earlier in the day:
“Another Yankees update: Despite all sorts of reports about the likes of Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner being included in a deal for Jarrod Washburn, indications are that the Yankees view acquiring Washburn strictly as a goodwill mission to take Washburn’s money (over $14 million) off the Mariners’ books. So the Yankees aren’t willing to offer low-level prospects unless Seattle A) agrees to eat some of the money and/or B) is willing to take Kei Igawa. So far, there’s no sign that the Mariners are interested in either option. The Yankees also have deflected all Scott Boras efforts to extract an extension or relocation bonus if Washburn waves his no-trade clause to the Bronx.”
and from the S-L:
“They continue to haggle with the Mariners over Jarrod Washburn. The Yankees don’t think they should have to give up top talent if they’re assuming all of Washburn’s contract. And while a person who spoke with Washburn recently said Washburn would be willing to waive his no-trade clause for a deal to the Yankees, agent Scott Boras is likely to seek some sort of compensation in return for such a waiver. The Yankees would, obviously, resist that.
Strange, the one thing my sources were unanimous about was that the no-trade clause was “taken care of”. I wonder if this means the M’s would be paying him off then?
I would be very surprised if the no-trade clause ends up being problematic.
Someone will just pay him to waive it. Who it is doesn’t really matter that much.
It seems it may be a moot point anyway but I strongly disagree with your assessment of Melky Cabrera. First of all, he’s a good outfielder who acts like a Jim Edmonds type drama queen setting up unnecessary dives for catches, diving *after* he caught the ball and bumping into walls in oddly conspicuous ways that didn’t seem to be required to catch the ball.
But comparing him to Adam Jones is silly. Melky’s offense seems to be coelescing into a good for one month a year sort of thing. Here’s his OPS month by month the last two years:
–2007-2008
A .451-.864
M .762-.589
J .811-.544
J .938-.632
A .818
S .456
As for the argument that it’s inconsistent playing time that caused him to be lousy, well, in 2007, he had 75, 59, 94, 106, 111 and 100 at bats, more time as he produced and then still a lot of time as he was terrible in september. In 2008 he’s had 87, 94, 102 and (so far in July) 64 at bats. Since May 2007 he’s been on a 550 or so at bat per season pace. He’s just not good.
ahhhhh, Rumor Season.
so the Mets are said to be looking at Bay, Blake & Ibanez (‘tho their respective teams are asking ‘exorbitant’ prices) as Church likely won’t be back ’til after the trade deadline … and Rosenthal says the Dodgers might steal Blake out of the pot, and other’s say that Bay might not move after all, with the Bucs/Yankees trade …
In ’07 he had 2 bad months, 3 pretty decent ones and 1 great one. That’s not that bad. This year has been a little off for him, true. He’s got a little more homerun power (5.8%/7.2% HR/F), but a higher K rate (12.5%/14%). He’s walking about the same. His BABIP the last three years: .310, .301 and .269. His LD% for those years, respectively: 17.2%, 19.7% and 18.4%.
His BABIP stands out as quite low for his LD%, especially when looking at the previous 2 years. Melky won’t turn 24 until August 11th either.
As far as his fielding, I can only get at RZR right now. He ranked 1st in the AL @ LF in ’06, 2nd in the AL in CF last year and is tied for 5th this year with Granderson in CF.
Yankees fans always make him out to be the second coming of the Mick (but, when do they not?), but if the M’s can aquire him I think he’d be a fairly serviceable option in CF next year and for several seasons.
To this day, I still laugh about how the Yanks
gave up on Jay Buhnerthought Ken Phelps would help them win the AL East back in 1988./snark 🙂
“WHAT?! You traded BOTH Melky Cabrera AND Brett Gardner for Jerrod Washburn?”
“My baseball people kept telling me, ‘Jarrod Washburn, Jarrod Washburn.'”
Let’s hope history repeats itself.