Morrow As A Starter

Dave · August 6, 2008 at 8:55 am · Filed Under Mariners 

So, now that the M’s have decided to stretch Morrow out and turn him back into a starter, it’s time to look at what we should expect to see when he gets back to Seattle and joins the rotation. Pitching out of the bullpen is totally different than starting, so it’s not quite as easy as just taking his relief performance and extrapolating that over six or seven innings of work. He’s going to have to pitch differently, and that will have an effect on his results.

First, off, the fastball velocity is going to go down. Right now, his average fastball is 96.3 MPH, but he’s able to throw max effort on every pitch without worrying about stamina. As a starter, he’s going to have to pace himself. Most hard throwers like Morrow lose between 1-3 MPH off their average fastball when they move to the rotation, so Morrow’s going to have to adjust to throwing a 93-95 fastball instead of a 95-97 MPH fastball. As a guy who pitches up in the zone, that extra velocity can make a difference, and he’ll have to realize that trying to blow everyone away with a four seam high fastball isn’t going to work.

Secondly, he’s going to have to reduce the amount of fastballs he throws in general. Right now, about 76% of all of his pitches are fastballs, and that’s just too high. The starters who throw that many fastballs are all sinker ball types (or Vincente Padilla, but he’s not the role model we’re looking for), and since Morrow’s fastball produces flyballs, he’s going to have to reduce the number he throws. This will be especially true against left-handers, where his change up will become a necessary pitch. Fastball/slider pitchers tend to really struggle against lefties, because both pitches move in on LHBs. To get them out with consistency, he’s going to have to trust his change-up and use it far more frequently.

Finally, he’s going to have to improve his command. It’s gotten significantly better than it was last year, but it’s still not good – he throws strikes about as often as Felix does, and I think we all have yelled at Felix to throw more strikes at some point or another. He won’t get the groundballs that Felix does, so that means fewer double plays, and the walks will be more of a problem. His command should improve some just by nature of not throwing as hard, but there needs to be improvement beyond that incremental step forward. Four seam fastball guys with bad command don’t generally become aces.

If he can make these adjustments, he should be able to be a solid #2 or #3 starter. His upside in the rotation is probably along the lines of Matt Cain. Certainly, the M’s have to hope that’s what he turns into, and if he reaches that potential, he’ll have quite a bit more value than he did as a late inning reliever. However, there are risks.

Injuries are obviously a concern. Morrow’s never handled any kind of real workload in his life, and they’re going to have to be very careful to not try and put too many innings on his arm too quickly. Realistically, he probably shouldn’t be allowed to throw more than 50-60 innings or so the rest of the year. If you assume he burns through 15 of those in Tacoma getting stretched out, that only leaves about 3-5 starts in Seattle before the best course of action is to just shut him down.

Bullpen to rotation conversions can work. Chad Billingsley, Adam Wainwright, Kelvim Escobar, Zach Greinke, and Joba Chamberlain all made the move successfully, but they all had significant minor league experience as starters. Morrow may take a little longer to know how to get batters out for six and seven inning stretches, and his arm isn’t as tested over full season of starting as the others were.

Patience and risk management will be key here. Don’t expect Morrow to come up and dominate. There’s a learning curve, but it’s one that the organization will be better off for having him go through.

Comments

68 Responses to “Morrow As A Starter”

  1. Grizz on August 6th, 2008 9:04 am

    There’s a learning curve . . . .

    But should he learn a curve?

  2. TumwaterMike on August 6th, 2008 9:11 am

    Then there’s John Smoltz who went the other direction from starter to closer, then back to starter. I ponder if that contributed to his recent injuries.

  3. Marcel on August 6th, 2008 9:17 am

    Why would they call him back up at all this year? The season is completely lost, wouldn’t it make more sense to leave him in AAA to let him work on his off-speed stuff in a low pressure environment?

  4. Nick on August 6th, 2008 9:18 am

    After seeing Morrow pitch early last year, I was pretty skeptical about ever moving him to the rotation; however, the progress he has made this year, both in improving his command and mixing up his pitches, has impressed me a lot. He’s come a long way with a limited amount of work.

    He still has a long way to go, particularly with getting his off-speed pitch down in the zone, but count me in the optimistic group regarding this move now.

  5. Nick on August 6th, 2008 9:23 am

    I think they ought to treat the next month as spring training and give him a full 30 days with five or six starts in Tacoma to build up slowly, e.g., 2, 3, 4, innings and max out at 5. Then, if he’s still strong, bring him back for 3-4 starts in September.

    If his arm tires at any point, they should just shut him down.

    My guess, though, is that he’ll start 2-3 times in Tacoma and be back sooner.

  6. gag harbor on August 6th, 2008 9:24 am

    11:30 this morning, Cheney Stadium, Morrow gets the start and weather will be awesome. Nice.

  7. metz123 on August 6th, 2008 9:26 am

    That’s one of the things he really has to work on. Right now he throws that sloppy slurve as a surprise and to change the batters eye angle. It’s up about eye height. He’s got to learn how to make that pitch a lot sharper and lower in the zone.

    I’d really like to see him develop some movement on his 2 seam fastball. If he can make that ball come back over the plate left to right(aka Maddux) then it will be a great weapon against lefties.

    It would be nice if the club brought in someone that had gone from pen to starter to talk with him about the difference.

    But count me in the camp that is also saying “It’s about time.”

  8. AssumedName on August 6th, 2008 9:30 am

    Does he stick with the 4-seamer because he’s got such good pop on it? Why not work with a pitching coach and mix in a sinker? Doesn’t Felix throw mostly 2-seamers?

  9. diderot on August 6th, 2008 9:35 am

    Good comments here. There is no reason to bring him back up this year.
    And metz, yes, absolutely. If someone doesn’t figure out how to put some movement on his fastball, nothing else will matter. Bullpen will be his career upside.

  10. Sinking Away on August 6th, 2008 9:43 am

    I’m not as excited as everyone else about this. He’s closer material right now, guaranteed. He could be as dominating as Rivera has been for the Yanks. Clearly we don’t need a closer this year but maybe next year we field a team that would actually require a closer.

  11. teacherrefpoet on August 6th, 2008 9:45 am

    Forgive the ignorant questions, but what kind of innings did Morrow throw in college? He started there…or am I remembering wrong? Can we use those results to give us an idea of what might happen as a starter in the majors, or are the levels/conditions too different to try that?

  12. gwangung on August 6th, 2008 9:49 am

    I’m not as excited as everyone else about this. He’s closer material right now, guaranteed.

    And he will be closer material again, if he doesn’t make it as a starter.

    Get excited, because a good starter is much more valuable than a good reliever.

  13. Sports on a Schtick on August 6th, 2008 9:50 am

    Not a lot. Brandon needs to be handled very closely.

  14. jordan on August 6th, 2008 9:56 am

    Never been to a rainiers game, but since morrow is down there, you think I can still walk up and get a ticket?

  15. Oly Rainiers Fan on August 6th, 2008 9:59 am

    I know there will be empty seats, because I know several season ticket holders who aren’t coming – but, last night one of the ushers told me today’s game was sold out. apparently there are busloads of children coming (he said 5000 of them, yikes).

    still, might be worth a try. tnt says he’s going to be limited to 35 pitches though.

  16. jordan on August 6th, 2008 10:03 am

    ehh.. i guess I wont go then. I live an hour away, and if it was sold out, and he is only throwing 35 pitches its not worth it.

  17. Spanky on August 6th, 2008 10:06 am

    On the one hand, he’s only pitched 100 innings once (and less than 280 innings total) since 2003 which causes a lot of concern for trying to stretch him out to a starter. On the other hand, he’s only pitched 100 innings once (and 280 innings total) since 2003 so there’s not a lot of wear and tear on his body! His arm may fall off trying to pitch 200 innings or he may pitch well into his 40′s!

    This is really bad news.

    This is really good news.

  18. scraps on August 6th, 2008 10:07 am

    He could be as dominating as Rivera has been for the Yanks.

    Rivera is the best closer of his generation. So, probably not.

  19. Mr. Egaas on August 6th, 2008 10:10 am

    I’m not so sure Kelvim Escobar is a model of success given his injury history.

  20. Mike Snow on August 6th, 2008 10:18 am

    Beyond the rest of the year, I’m thinking ahead to next year, when it seems they imagine him as a regular member of the rotation. Are they going to put some kind of innings cap on him, the way they did with Felix the first couple years? Going blithely along like he’s a 200+ IP workhorse doesn’t seem like a good idea. Maybe putting him on the DL every time he hits a dead-arm period would make sense (worked for Jeff Weaver, right? sort of).

  21. Bob Kayline on August 6th, 2008 10:25 am

    Like Nuke LaLush, Marrow needs an uncluttered mind. Keep it simple. Ray Miller (pitching coach and former manager)urged pitchers to follow three rules: Throw strikes, change speeds, work fast.

  22. Sports on a Schtick on August 6th, 2008 10:55 am

    I honestly think 2009 is too early to expect results. He’s got too great an arm to risk for a season that probably won’t be a contending one.

  23. Nick on August 6th, 2008 11:01 am

    If we’re giving Morrow advice, I’ll offer this chestnut: Brush ‘em back and curve ‘em on the outside, then go pound the Budweiser.

  24. argh on August 6th, 2008 11:03 am

    Morrow’s a classic low-to-no cost experiment with a big upside. If he converts usefully, the Mariners win. If not, it will cost them a few close games (maybe) in a season already deader than disco and (much more speculatively) a few more next year. Unfortunately, the general fan base is already being encouraged to view this as a nearly dead certain progression from bullpen to next year’s killer 1-2-3, World Series-bound battery of Hernandez, Bedard and Morrow (per this morning’s Dave ‘Slushy’ Mahler show).

  25. Grizz on August 6th, 2008 11:07 am

    Per Fangraphs, the 1806 pitches that Morrow has thrown in the majors breaks down as follows:

    Fastball: 78.7% (1421 pitches)
    Slider: 11.7% (211)
    Splitter: 6.9% (125)
    Changeup: 2.7% (49)

    Morrow basically abandoned his changeup for two years, so his conversion to a starter (at least as an effective one) may take a little awhile.

  26. Robo Ape on August 6th, 2008 11:14 am

    #3

    The season is completely lost, wouldn’t it make more sense to leave him in AAA to let him work on his off-speed stuff in a low pressure environment?

    and
    #9

    There is no reason to bring him back up this year.

    If the season is completely lost, there’s not going to be a lot of pressure at the Big League level either, is there? Morrow’s spent the last two years facing major league bats, once he gets a few starts in at AAA he doesn’t stand to make much more improvement by facing worse hitters. I say time it so that he gets two big league starts at the end of the year; preferably at home so I can see them.

    Also, Dave, DMZ, how about a write-up of how RRS’s three starts in Tacoma look? On paper they look good, but I’m no expert on how AAA success translates to big league expectation.

  27. Nick on August 6th, 2008 11:20 am

    I’d say a pitcher with a decent fastball (Morrow certainly qualifies) and decent command of a splitter (he’s not there yet) doesn’t need to worry about a changeup. It’s a nice addition, but not a necessity.

  28. JR Ewing on August 6th, 2008 11:22 am

    IF one projects 2009 as another rebuilding year, and 2010 has the first potential chance to compete for the post-season, who is your closer ? Will Putz add something to his arsenal to make up for lost velocity ? will he regain velocity as he gets older ? I am not suggesting Morrow is the only option to close in 2010, but I am curious as to who the best and/or most likely candidates are.

  29. hoser on August 6th, 2008 11:27 am

    10 – Unless we get some starters we will never need a closer. As I understand it, if we ever put together an offense or a defense (or better yet, both), we will then be able to do OK with replacement level pitching like Washburn, Silva, Batista, Feierabend, RRS, Baek, Dickey, etc.
    We have been trying to get free agent pitching for years. We either overpay for average pitching or get outbid for the best. Even when we get outbid, we’re usually glad later (see Carl Pavano here, here and here).
    Mediocre pitching makes closing superfluous.
    A great closer is not a necessity for winning the world series.
    Let’s see now, we’ve got Putz, we just wastedused our first round pick on a potential closer and now you want Morrow to close too?
    It would be an amusing approach, to have 9 closers each pitching an inning every day. However, as long as the Mariners are planning to have five starters, one closer and good starters (like good men) are hard to find, I think they should always convert closers to above average starters when they can.

  30. Evan on August 6th, 2008 11:29 am

    I’m not as excited as everyone else about this. He’s closer material right now, guaranteed. He could be as dominating as Rivera has been for the Yanks. Clearly we don’t need a closer this year but maybe next year we field a team that would actually require a closer.

    No team needs a closer. A closer is a modern construct based on a pointless statistic.

    I’d be overjoyed to see our team not have one.

  31. terry on August 6th, 2008 11:37 am

    Fastballs tend to tail into same-handed hitters. Morrow’s would be expected to tail into right-handed hitters. Pitch f/x data supports this assertion for Morrow.

  32. scottiedawg on August 6th, 2008 11:42 am

    so far…
    1 IP, 15 pitches, 9 strikes, 6 balls
    0 H, 0 R, 1 K, 0 BB, 2 groundball outs

  33. Go Felix on August 6th, 2008 11:44 am

    Anything that helps this team move forward is something I can get behind. We have a few decent young guys so the more time they see in the big leagues the better. However, I do believe they should leave Morrow in Tacoma through the end of the season and not bring him up to Seattle again. There is no point and the only thing they are risking is injury. Seattle doesn’t need another starter this season, it’s a bust.

  34. Robo Ape on August 6th, 2008 11:47 am

    However, I do believe they should leave Morrow in Tacoma through the end of the season and not bring him up to Seattle again. There is no point and the only thing they are risking is injury. Seattle doesn’t need another starter this season, it’s a bust.

    So, you’re saying the reason he should stay in Tacoma is because starting pitchers are more likely to get injured in the Major Leagues than in AAA?

  35. galaxieboi on August 6th, 2008 11:52 am

    With Morrow in Tacoma, Riggleman won’t feel the need to push Brandon in order to have the ‘interim’ tag removed from his job title. Whether a season is ‘lost’ or not probably has little to do with the team management on a micro-level. The coaching staff will continue to try to win games because as far as they’re concerned that’s what you do. The minors are where you learn things. I don’t trust this coaching staff thinking of Brandon’s best long term interests.

  36. Go Felix on August 6th, 2008 11:56 am

    Robo Ape:

    Younger guys have a tendency of over doing it when they get to the major league level. I don’t think Morrow has harnessed the idea of how good he is/can be. If he comes up he might be over throwing in order to get someone out, like he does now when he is in bullpen relief or a closing situation. Having him do the same over 4-5 innings is what I’m talking about. It’s a simple mechanical thing that needs to get figured out and I don’t think that can be addressed over 4-5 starts in Tacoma and 3 starts in Seattle. Look at Joba, for example….the Yankees had the bright idea of making him a starter mid-season and now look what happened, he’ll probably be out for the rest of the season with a shoulder problem.

    Morrow needs time to make sure all his mechanics, pitches, and stamina can be up to par for the majors as a starter. There’s absolutely no reason any of that should be risked because he is trying to go out there and “win” a game for the M’s this season.

  37. The Ancient Mariner on August 6th, 2008 11:58 am

    Robo Ape: there is more stress, and consequently more need to push yourself, facing major-league hitters than facing AAA hitters. This is not a difficult concept, so I’m not sure why you’re having trouble with it.

  38. scottiedawg on August 6th, 2008 12:07 pm

    Outing complete
    1.2 IP, 34 pitches, 21 strikes, 13 balls
    1 H, 0 R, 1 K, 0 BB, 3 groundball outs, 1 pop out

  39. jordan on August 6th, 2008 12:10 pm

    A lot of pitches up in the zone. Hopefully he gets the ball down.

  40. Safeco Hobo on August 6th, 2008 12:16 pm

    My concern is what happens to him next year when he hits the rotation (pending everything goes well). Morrow’s last year in college he threw 96.2 innings then 16 more between AZL and Inland empire. Then last year he threw 63.1 regular season innings. So far this year he is up to 35.2 MLB innings and a few in the rehab in W. Tenn.

    So he really hasn’t had any time to let his arm get adjusted to a typical 200 inning major league starter work load. Would the M’s shut him down 2/3 of the way through 2009 to keep him under 150 innings?

  41. scottiedawg on August 6th, 2008 12:21 pm

    Or he could be just like bedard and go 5 every start. That gets him 30 starts!

  42. Robo Ape on August 6th, 2008 12:24 pm

    The reason I’m “having trouble with it” is that it doesn’t seem to me like an end of season start or two will put so much more stress on Morrow that it’s an unhealthy risk. Especially since the guy’s been facing Major League bats for the last two years. Besides, regardless of however he might be doing, Riggleman’s not going to pull a Williams and leave him out there for an 145 pitch outing.

    It just seems like everyone (the fans, the FO, Riggleman, Stottlemyre, and especially Morrow) will learn more about Morrow’s potential with one or two Big League starts.

    The man was a starting pitcher his whole time at Cal and while, yes, the mechanics are different and there’s always the potential of overdoing it, he’s not a porcelain doll.

  43. Jeff Nye on August 6th, 2008 12:27 pm

    No team needs a closer. A closer is a modern construct based on a pointless statistic.

    To quibble a little:

    The idea of a closer is exactly what you describe; however, the concept of a “relief ace” isn’t.

    The big distinction is that there’s this idea that the closer is only to be used in the 9th inning to protect a lead; a relief ace is just as good of a pitcher, but can be brought in during whatever high-leverage situation you need him.

    Brandon Morrow could end up being a relief ace type if he can’t get stretched out enough to pitch as a starter or develop his secondary pitches enough that he can move away from his fastball.

    But you don’t make that decision this early in his career. A solid #2 or #3 starter is so valuable that you have to stick with that plan for any guy who might be able to get there, and keep relief ace as your backup plan.

  44. scottiedawg on August 6th, 2008 12:27 pm

    On the surface it makes sense: pitching one place versus another shouldn’t raise the probability for injury. But if you dig a little deeper, even though the Mariners aren’t in any kind of race, pitching against major league talent requires more concentration and effort, in a more high-pressure situation.

  45. busplunger on August 6th, 2008 12:33 pm

    I do believe they should leave Morrow in Tacoma through the end of the season and not bring him up to Seattle again.

    Just a friendly reminder that Tacoma’s season is over on September 1st. At that point, I’m sure you’d call him back up to Seattle. The only question then is whether you plan to start him a game or two or just shut him down.

  46. hoser on August 6th, 2008 12:36 pm

    If you’re calculating innings, you might want to factor in 25 for Venezuela winter league ball as a starter.

  47. Go Felix on August 6th, 2008 12:42 pm

    Robo Ape:

    It’s going to take a while to determine how good Morrow will be as a starter. Two starts this season will not prove anything. Therefore, his mechanics can be worked on (preferably by not listening to an old college coach or phoning Washburn)in order to take on an increased workload. If he comes in those two starts and throws 7-8 innings of scoreless ball does that mean he is ready? No. If he comes in throws 4 innings per start and gives up 11 runs does that mean he is a bad starter? No.

    The main thing here is that it doesn’t matter what he does in an M’s uniform this year. The main focus should be to take the guy and do everything possible to make sure he can pitch effectively without over extending him while he develops into a starting pitcher that could be part of this organization for years to come. I know that’s a pretty general statement but there should be no rush to bring him back to Seattle this season for the sake of seeing major league hitters and evaluating his potential as a major league starter.

  48. arbeck on August 6th, 2008 12:43 pm

    Jeff Nye,

    The problem with the relief ace concept is that most teams refuse to use it. So even if Morrow developed into a relief ace, he’d be wasting away pitching with with a 3 run lead in the 9th inning.

  49. RoninX on August 6th, 2008 12:44 pm

    Outing complete
    1.2 IP, 34 pitches, 21 strikes, 13 balls
    1 H, 0 R, 1 K, 0 BB, 3 groundball outs, 1 pop out

    I am all for being careful with Brandon, but 1.2 innings and 34 pitches doesn’t seem like much of a “stretch” to me. Brandon has recorded a couple of four out saves in the big leagues this year. Was 35 pitches the target number here? Anyone have any idea?

  50. scottiedawg on August 6th, 2008 12:46 pm

    35 was the “limit”

  51. cody on August 6th, 2008 12:47 pm

    Pitching in the majors does require more effort than pitching in the minors. The hitters are tougher and there is no one that is a gaurunteed out. Unlike the Deadball era, anyone can go deep nowadays. Even the now departed Jose Vidro. You just have to throw harder to get through games. Couple that with the fact that Morrow might try to go out there and throw like Sidd Fynch and the injury risk goes up. The best thing to do might be to stretch him out down in Tacoma, have him start down in Venezuela in a winter league, and then stick him out as an MLB starter next year.

  52. Jeff Nye on August 6th, 2008 12:51 pm

    The problem with the relief ace concept is that most teams refuse to use it. So even if Morrow developed into a relief ace, he’d be wasting away pitching with with a 3 run lead in the 9th inning.

    The fact that most teams are stupid about how they use relief aces doesn’t invalidate the concept.

  53. Joe C on August 6th, 2008 12:53 pm

    I think that the Mariners would be nuts to send Morrow to Venezuela for the second winter in a row.

  54. pgreyy on August 6th, 2008 1:03 pm

    Coach Mel said last night that the most that Brandon had pitched in any game this season was 30 pitches…so, 35 pitches is the beginning of a nicely drawn out stretch.

    Next time out is supposed to be 45, if I remember correctly.

    (And I note with some irony that the same post that suggested that there wouldn’t be much difference between the pressure of a late season major league start for Morrow versus keeping him in AAA, also said that the reason for those late season major league starts would be “to see what he’s got”–which, to me, is the very definition of a pressure situation.)

  55. Mike Snow on August 6th, 2008 1:05 pm

    I think that the Mariners would be nuts to send Morrow to Venezuela for the second winter in a row.

    It looks like they plan not to, that’s a big part of why they’re moving on this now.

  56. Robo Ape on August 6th, 2008 1:10 pm

    #47: I agree that the results don’t matter, but what I meant is that everyone (including Brandon) can get a better idea of what off-season adjustments he needs to make to become an affective starter. For example, he might throw two awesome innings then see his fastball drop three MPH and his slider lose all bite; okay, he clearly has some stamina issues to work on. On the other hand, he might cruise through six innings with his fastball around 95 the whole time but without working in the changeup at all (as he’s ought to do now); okay, stamina seems fine, but he’s got to improve pitch selection. Once he’s worked his way into starting shape, I say give him the ball, let’s see how he does.

    I understand that the Big Leagues are higher stress than the minors and that the outs are more difficult and a pitcher might be more likely to over-exert himself, but what I seem to be hearing from all of you is that it is an unacceptable risk to have Brandon Morrow start two meaningless end-of-season games as a Mariner.

    I’m curious to know, then, what is the exact number of AAA starts a pitcher should have to make him “ready” to pitch in the Big Leagues?

  57. Go Felix on August 6th, 2008 1:19 pm

    Robo Ape:

    I don’t think there is or should be a defined number of starts when a pitcher should be determined to be ready. Hell, Tim Lincecum was ready to pitch straight out of college. He mad 24 starts in 2007 and in 2008 he is dominating. Joba Chamberlain was ready this year after being sent down this year and made 12 starts. What results does a team want out of each player. I think Lincecum was a natural starter and just chucks the ball. Joba has shoulder issues and was injury prone at Nebraska. Joba and Lincecum are different styles of pitcher completely.

    Morrow is also a one off situation. 25 starts or 50 before he is ready? Not my choice. Having the stamina, mechanics, and effective pitches to go every five days and pitch 175-200 innings in a season? That’s the goal.

  58. Nick on August 6th, 2008 1:32 pm

    Speaking of relief pitchers . . . is there any news on Josh Fields?

  59. Robo Ape on August 6th, 2008 1:34 pm

    I’m starting to feel like my motivations for posting are getting convoluted and, to prevent this from getting too off-topic, I’ll just say what I meant at first:

    Fundamentally, all I am saying is that I don’t believe there is really that significant a risk in having him start a game or two in the Big Leagues once he’s done his work in AAA. I also happen to believe that getting Big League starting experience will likely be very good for him; I believe that in this case the benefits far outweigh the risks.

  60. mrg on August 6th, 2008 2:03 pm

    I hear he may not be ready to sign yet. Plus, his agent is Scott Boras, so that could be trouble.

  61. notanangrygradstudent on August 6th, 2008 2:26 pm

    FWIW, I agree with Robo Ape.

    Pitching at AAA is different from pitching in the Majors, so give him a couple of ML starts just to get his feet wet and see what he needs to work on (if anything). The caveat is that before doing this, the management should pull him aside and tell him up front, “Kid, we don’t care how this goes. This is spring training for you. We aren’t sending you down or giving up on you if you give up 11 runs and don’t make it out of the third inning. Just do your best, and we’ll come back and talk about how to make you better.”

  62. msb on August 6th, 2008 4:30 pm

    I hear he may not be ready to sign yet. Plus, his agent is Scott Boras, so that could be trouble.

    Churchill was thinking it might be nice if he failed to sign, and the Ms got the compensatory draft pick for next years deeper draft

  63. windwardtrades on August 6th, 2008 7:36 pm

    Tim Linescum

    Just contemplate if the Mariners braintrust had made the right draft choice, they would never had made the Bedard trade. This team might be 20 games better at this point, and have a young nucleus instead of this sorryass group. I’ve lost all interest and did so some time ago. They are the laughing stock of MLB. The FO couldn’t manage a little league team.

    Tim Linsecum

    It was so set up. Everybody could see it. It was a natural for Tim to pitch here. It was karma.

    Tim Linsecum

    The Mariners should resign from the American League and disband. I’d bet our esteemed management team wouldn’t be working in baseball anytime soon. Neither would most of the players.

    The day they passed on Tim Linsecum is the day this franchise regressed into the black hole.

  64. msb on August 6th, 2008 7:46 pm

    that would be Tim Lincecum?

  65. Dave on August 6th, 2008 9:48 pm

    There’s this thing called credibility. When you say a player’s name four times in a post to try to emphasize how obvious it was that this guy was going to be a star, and you spell his name correctly zero times, you lose all credibility.

    The Tim Lincecum fanboys are right there with Red Sox fans and A’s fans as the most annoying people on the internet.

  66. Graham on August 6th, 2008 9:55 pm

    You forgot Angels fans, Dave.

  67. Jeff Nye on August 6th, 2008 9:58 pm

    Why, with all the other stupid moves this franchise has made in recent years, would you pick them taking Lincecum over Morrow as the thing to get mad about?

    It is way, way too soon to evaluate who is going to end up having the better career.

  68. pjs24 on August 7th, 2008 5:26 am

    Chad Billingsley, Adam Wainwright, Kelvim Escobar, Zach Greinke, and Joba Chamberlain

    Not the best group to compare the experiment to considering three are hurt, the others was actually a starter from the outset (Greinke & Bills), but especially since you left out the posterboy for it, Johan Santana.

    I actually have no problem with the reliever-to-starter maturation process.

    I thought you didn’t help your case by mentioning that group *without* including Johan. Liriano obviously got hurt, too, but he could be thrown into the group.

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