Note To Lee
Jarrod Washburn confirmed that he was told today that he’s been claimed on waivers. This gives the M’s some amount of time between now and Friday (depending on when he was claimed) to work out a deal with the claiming team or pull him back off waivers.
Mr. Pelekoudas, if Jarrod Washburn is pulled back off waivers and is still wearing a Mariner uniform this weekend, we’re going to riot. You have just been given a gift of freedom from one of the many lousy contracts and players your predecessor stuck this franchise with, and it’s time to just cut bait. Let him go. If you can convince another GM to give you something for him, great, we’ll throw a parade for you, but if you fail to capitalize on this gift, your tenure as a GM will be viewed as a failure.
The Mariners don’t need Jarrod Washburn and shouldn’t want Jarrod Washburn. Ridding Seattle of him and his contract is addition by subtraction, and not having him on the team anymore is more than enough incentive to make the deal.
Jarrod Washburn better not be a Mariner on Friday night. Don’t screw this up.
Hmmm.
You may know this. I may know this. Lee may know this.
But do his bosses know this?
If Bus and Chef are both on this team next year Dave is jumping ship to USSRays.
Dave, if LeeP doesn’t do this, I will start a fundraiser to get you on a plane out to Seattle. You and Derek will team up and lead us to battle vs. the Mariners’ front office. You and Derek shall be William Wallace. We will be Scotland’s poor fighters (and one insane Irish guy that converses with God).
We’ll burn Safeco down if he is not gone..
oh.. were not going THAT far?
Jordan, you’re a psycho.
Prepare yourselves for disappointment. I just see this being yet another blunder. Were the reports of Sexson being claimed by Detroit last year ever confirmed? I’ll punch myself in the face if this happens two years in a row.
Regarding Sexson, the reports were repudiated.
I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. When was the last time Seattle had a good riot?
We could have Rick Rizzs and gritty Willie Bloomquist on crutches leading the peasants. It will be like the Storming of the Bastille!
A Seattle riot is boycotting starbucks for 5 minutes,pretending to be hippies, starting a punk band or filing a lawsuit. The city should have rioted for the plundering of a franchise from the city, but it really didn’t… but if Washburn isnt gone I may hop a plane from Kentucky to start things up!
WTO?
Why would anyone expect Washburn to be gone? Seriously, what have we seen to suggest that the Mariners understand this problem?
Hickey addresses the subject
tchaw. Everyone knows that was the infiltrators from Eugene.
Free Tibet and Free Washburn. Please let him go. Everyone wins.
AMEN!
Question: how often does a player that’s claimed on waivers NOT get pulled back? When’s the last time it’s happened?
Off the top of my head I can’t think of any examples.
If there’s no bread, let them eat
cake, uh, rally fries!I’m gonna call some Black Bloc anarchists and we’ll be on standby ready to burn down every Starbucks, McDonald’s, and Nike in the greater Seattle area. Just in case.
Anarchy in the UK!
I’ve read that Ibanez has also been claimed……….
BUT now I want him to stayyyy……
Isn’t him acknowledging this a violation of several MLB rules?
Dave’s right: this is a gift for the Mariners. Washburn’s not a bad pitcher, he’s just not a great pitcher. Who knows? A change of scenery might be just the thing he needs, and he might help out a team.
But the Mariners would be crazy to not take his salary off the books, even if all they get is $20K and maybe a PTBNL. The roster right now hardly even has a nucleus to build around, and any competent GM would love to come here after the season knowing that there’s not as much deadweight sitting on the books. Going into November with little commitment and a lot of payroll freed up is the best thing the Mariners could salvage out of this season, besides getting free, zero-consequence playing or tinkering time for their top prospects like Clement, Morrow, et al.
Do you mean any player, or just Mariners players? Adam Dunn last week is the most recent example that comes to mind.
It is absolutely NOT imperative for Washburn to go right this minute. If it works out, fine. If not, the club will definitely be able to move him this offseason.
Pretend you’re a GM this offseason and you need SP depth. Half of the GMs in baseball are in this position every offseason. Ask yourself if you’d rather have John Garland on a 5 year, $60 million deal or Jarrod Washburn on a 1 year, $10 million deal. As bad as Washburn is, a lot GMs are going to look at him as a low risk option to fill out a rotation. I think there will be more than a handful willing to take his contract off the Mariners’ hands and give up a little something interesting for he chance to.
I’m not saying its a smart decision for a GM to go out and land a guy like Washburn. I’m just saying that there are a number of GMs that would be be willing to do it.
It is absolutely NOT imperative for Washburn to go right this minute.
I agree. This should be considered from the standpoint of which move makes the most sense for the franchise. If we only shed salary via waivers right now vs. prospect(s) via a trade this winter, that seems to make more sense.
Or we could just threaten LeeP. Whatever.
You’re not going to get any prospects for Washburn this winter. You’re less likely to be able to dump him on someone later than now, in fact.
Dave,
Well, if you’re sure of that, then fine. I simply don’t have the same powers of precognition.
I wonder how we can be sure there wouldn’t be interest in him this winter–Carlos Silva is not the only bad starter in baseball. Of course, any team can forward young prospects as magic bullets by spring training…thus diminishing the interest in someone like Washburn. But it seems Dave Duncan has taken on any number of ‘over the hill’ pitchers in St. Louis and kept them more than respectable. By their standards, would Washburn really seem like a worse bet than the likes of Lohse, Piniero, etc?
Because Jarrod Washburn sucks.
That’s the thing – you have to realize that no one in baseball (besides the folks who work for the M’s) think Washburn is any good. Last winter, exactly two teams gave multi-year contracts to free agent pitchers – the M’s and Dodgers, two of the worst run franchises in baseball.
Teams are getting smarter. No one wants Washburn for $10 million when Kyle Lohse can only sign for $4 million or Mark Hendrickson gets $1.5 million or Randy Wolf gets $4.75 million.
Washburn has no value – you’ll never get anything of substance for him.
A team might take on Wash’s salary now because they need a #4 starter to make the playoffs this year. They will not simply take on his salary over the winter as they prepare for a new season. Those teams will find cheaper #4’s. Let him go now.
I dunno, does “I heard the Red Wings put in a claim on me” really count as an acknowledgement?
Did anybody claim Silva? Now there’s a cement shoe we could do without!
[noted in yesterday's post]
Agreed that Washburn has more value now than this winter for teams currently in contention.
Agreed that he has no long-term value to the M’s.
Agreed that he sucks.
However, I still disagree that he necessarily has no perceived value to other clubs this winter. If the old saw is true that every team is looking for starting pitching, consider what they’ll be looking at. They can negotiate with free agents like Dempster, Lackey, Penny, Oliver Perez or Sheets…but that will certainly require a multi-year contract. Even people like Garland and Hendrickson will command some kind of multi-year deal. What’s left are the truly aged (Rogers, Mussina, Moyer, Glavine), the injury risks, and those who suck even more than Washburn.
It may well be that no one decides on a one-year flyer…but I don’t think it’s out of the question that someone might…even if it costs them a prospect.
Thus, my main point is that if this waiver deal does not get done, it’s not sufficient reason to consider this GM a ‘failure’.
Actually, I could agree with everything else you said and still disagree with this. If Washburn has been claimed on waivers, then it would indeed be a failure if he did not move right now. The possibility someone may give up a low-grade prospect for Washburn over the winter is not worth the possibility the M’s will be stuck with his salary in ‘09 while they have at least three league-minimum guys capable of taking his place. The goal in moving Washburn is not getting another Jared Wells, it’s repurposing his salary for use in signing a MLB quality bat.
#32
You are missing the point that Washburn’s contract is what makes him have no value. He is not worth the money. Lots of other teams need pitching (not just great or good). But, those other teams are smart enough to sign comparable pitchers to Washburn for a fraction of the money.
If we can simply get away from his contract, its a good deal for the M’s. This winter, there are lots of free agents available. Right now, there are none. For teams with a win-now mentality, Washburn has a percieved value.
I hate that Washburn is the pitcher I will think of, rather than the original, good pitching Washburn from Pasco.
JM,
Yeah, good point. There’s a risk no one’s interested and we’re stuck with his contract next year. But that leads to your last point, which is another consideration–the value of dumping salary.
I think it’s pretty well established that free agents have no intention of taking our money. And given the history from Pavano to Zito, that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
So, if that extra $10m goes to signing bonuses or reducing the price of beer or whatever, great. But I’m not convinced ANY free agent will come in this winter who gives us even one more win next year.
I think it’s NOT well established or even having a hint of being true.
If any GM claimed Silva he would be immediately fired and his owner would firebomb MLB’s offices to destroy all evidence of the claim.
Do you ever read these discussions after you post? This assertion of yours was neatly refuted earlier this week when you made it in the Clement’s Position comments.
Unsubstantiated claims don’t add value to anyone’s life, and I’ve been reading Dawkins lately so they’re really starting to annoy me.
Heh. I just posted about that.
One could claim that GOOD free agents are rarely willing to sign with the Mariners, but the evidence for this claim equally supports the claim that the Mariners are rarely willing to sign good free agents, due to rarely being able to tell which those might be.
Actually it seems far more likely that the latter claim is true, because there is no particular explanation for why good free agents would avoid Seattle but mediocre ones with inflated stats wouldn’t. The latter explanation also better explains why we end up with so many of those mediocre players, and occasionally even some good ones like Beltre or lucky breaks like Ibanez.
I don’t think that Dawkins realizes that being an expert about one thing doesn’t make one an expert about other things. In particular, being a good biologist doesn’t entail being a good – or even a passable – philosopher. The 747 argument will go down in history as one of the most hilarious examples of fallacious reasoning.
Randy Myers was claimed by the Padres in 1998 and the Cubs were all too happy to dump his salary. I don’t think he did much (if anything) in San Diego…
His ESPN page lists him as a Mariner: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=1674
Well, maybe Bavasi stole the keys to Cincinnati’s Waiver Claim Machine and claimed his favorite innings eater!
ESPN is saying that the Twinkies claimed Washburn only to block the White Sox from getting him. IF that’s true, they may have no interest in working out a trade. Not even Pelekoudas can be blamed for that.
Then
you
let
them
have
him
It’s the wonder of waivers: you get to stick the team that claims him even if they’re just blocking.
If the conversation went something like this:
Lee: “So, we can’t get anyting in exchange?
Twins: “Nope.”
Then Lee hangs up and gives them Washburn and his contract.
FWIW, here is what ESPN has to say about both Wash and Ibanez:
Ibanez:
Washburn:
I was just going to ask what use of waivers are if you can’t dump the player on the claiming team. Hopefully in the name of little baby Jesus the M’s have figured out that Washburn is not worth the money he’s owed and by dumping him they can have two Washburns with the same money next season. Or just use Dickey and RRS for “free” and spend the money on support hose for Silva.
In reality they’re probably asking for Denard Span and a AA pitcher.
I was more thinking of the people Dawkins presents as his opposition.
Dawkins’s points about critical thinking (baseless positions are dumb) are solid, but his positive arguments (the 747) are less so.
As a Twins fan I truly hope that your interim GM does the right thing, pulls Washburn back, and saves us the agony of watching a $10 million dollar long reliever.
My favorite waiver wire deal ever:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE0D6103CF93BA3575BC0A9669C8B63
Hopefully, we hear Gardenhire say ”I’m a little surprised. I don’t have an opinion one way or another” very soon.
I was just about to bring up Canseco myself.
For those of you who want to trade Washburn this winter, keep in mind that even in the winter, the Mariners would likely be asked to cover some of his salary. This is their only opportunity to rid themselves of the ENTIRE contract. They’ve gotta take it while they can.
Even in the winter you’re not getting rid of a full $10 mill AND getting a prospect back unless you have Bill Bavasi running your team. (Hey Cincinnati, how about it?)
Well there’s that too.
FWIW:
Jarrod Washburn, SP SEA
News: According to the Seattle Times, Mariners SP Jarrod Washburn has been claimed on waivers by the St. Louis Cardinals. Seattle now has 48 hours to try and work out a deal with St. Louis, otherwise Washburn remains a Mariner.
[this is not a board]
For all those who want the M’s to hang onto Washburn until the winter meetings if the claiming team (Twins or whoever) don’t give us back a prospects, what is the value of a prospect?
There is a 100% chance now that the M’s can clear about $12M in salary owed to Washburn for the rest of this season and next without getting any prospects back.
Say the M’s take him to the winter meetings and trade him for a prospect and are able to dump his full $10M in salary. That means the M’s just spent $2M on a prospect who is probably margainal at best. Can’t the M’s use that money to sign Josh Fields, international prospects, over-slot in next June’s draft, etc.? It’s that a better use of $2M than whatever prospect the M’s will get back for Washburn now?
Then what happens if the M’s can’t find a partner to take his full salary at the Winter meetings? If’ the M’s have to pick up $4M of his salary to get back a prospect, you’re now looking at $6M for that prospect.
And I can’t even imagine what would happen if the M’s couldn’t get him moved.
We have more than enough capable starters to get the M’s through this lost season: Felix, Bedard, Silva, Batista, RRS, Dickey, and maybe – but hopefully not for fear of injury – Morrow. It’s not like keeping Washburn around for the rest of the season has any value for the team.
The worst case scenario here is that the Mariners keep Washburn, but trade Ibanez for magic beans, the other team offers him arbitration, he declines, and then the Mariners re-sign him in the offseason and give up the draft picks to get him! (I don’t think this would happen, but if it did the Mariners would be responsible for a lot of heads exploding.)
La laa la la la la, la la la la la…
That was the sound of my head.
GAAAAHHH–
That was the sound of my head in this dark fantasy.
Don’t let it happen Lee.
I don’t think the M’s would have to give up draft picks. You only give up draft picks if you’re above a certain point in the standings. I’m not sure what the point is, but the M’s are below it. The team losing Ibanez would get compensatory picks, but not the M’s picks.
CMC_Stags 54. Excellent presentation. Thank you.
FWIW, Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch repudiated the rumor that the Cardinals are the organization that has claimed Washburn (per today’s on-line edition, stltoday.com). That rumor made no sense to me anyway, as the Cards have at least one and probably more then one young pitcher ready to step in and provide what they’d get from Washburn.
#12
Those supposed anarchists from Eugene were in fact Federal Agents doing their job exceedingly well. Google: Problem, Reaction, Solution.